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Speaker 1: I get atam, It's tiff It's Jann, It's Craig Anthony

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Speaker 1: Harper at the Bloody You Project. What else would it be?

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Speaker 1: Where else would I be Tiffany and Cook over there

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Speaker 1: at typ Central steering the good ship. Typ get a

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Speaker 1: happy Monday, Hearts Happy Monday. Look at you in a

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Speaker 1: bloody purple singlet. You look like a violet crumble with

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Speaker 1: headphones on. Fucking hell, what what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: We didn't get out in the heat yesterday, so I

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Speaker 2: thought I'd just revel it up and pretend it was

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Speaker 2: still hot today.

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Speaker 1: Well, since I went to the dermatologist the other day

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Speaker 1: and she scared the shit out of me, I don't

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Speaker 1: go near the fuck the sun. I'm never going in

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Speaker 1: the sun again. I'm getting a cave built in the

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Speaker 1: front yard. I'm going to be a bit like Jesus.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to live in there. Although he came out

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Speaker 1: after three days, all right, I'm going to stay in

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Speaker 1: for much longer. And enough theology. Jiann Rudey, you're a

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Speaker 1: big deal. Welcome to the You Project.

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Speaker 3: Wow, what an inn Hello.

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Speaker 1: You've never heard that much bullshit at the start of

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Speaker 1: any show you've done. Telly you've done radio, you've won

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Speaker 1: gold medals, you're a big deal, your fucking World Olympic,

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Speaker 1: this and world champion that. You've never had that, have you.

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Speaker 3: I've never had that and actually really liked the message.

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Speaker 3: I'm with you, stay out of the sun. I've spent

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Speaker 3: plenty of my time in the sun. I've got that

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Speaker 3: really pale skin that burns in ten minutes and just

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Speaker 3: gets freckles and goes red and goes back to the

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Speaker 3: color that it was, so after years and years of

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Speaker 3: being in the sun, I am definitely hiding from it

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Speaker 3: for the rest of my existence.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to my old man on the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Ron Harper, who's two hundred and he's

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Speaker 1: had shit cut off him and he had a melanoma

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Speaker 1: cut off his nose not that long ago, and I've

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Speaker 1: had about I'm going to go conservatively a dozen basil

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Speaker 1: cell carcinomas. They're the kind of the one down cut

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Speaker 1: off and I should probably, but I've never, like I

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Speaker 1: done sunbake, that's the point. Like I've never probably I

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Speaker 1: sun baked five times in my twenties, and I don't

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Speaker 1: spend too much time in the sun. But nonetheless, nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: do you so you avoid the sun.

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Speaker 3: I can't avoid the sun. I'm a farmer.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: For the most part, it's pretty hard, but I am

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Speaker 3: very wary of the sun. I think is probably the

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Speaker 3: best way to put it. Even when I was a swimmer,

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Speaker 3: when I was an athlete outdoor pool on the Gold

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Speaker 3: Coast and you're, you know, four and a half to

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Speaker 3: five hours a day out in it. My mum was incredible.

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Speaker 3: She used to slather me in you know, sunscreen and

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Speaker 3: then even zinc on the top of my face as well.

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Speaker 3: But it's not like you're hopping out after an hour

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Speaker 3: to reapply. You're also sweating water for the most part,

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Speaker 3: so it's coming off and you get exposed to it

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Speaker 3: whether you like it or not. So I've just got

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Speaker 3: a really healthy respect for it. I'm like you. I've

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Speaker 3: had a couple of cut out. I've had a couple

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Speaker 3: of burnt off that have been nothing too sinister, but so,

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Speaker 3: you know, just really notice that my skin doesn't like it,

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Speaker 3: so I respect it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's a good way. Tiffany and Cook, have

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Speaker 1: you had anything cut off you other than your hair?

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Speaker 2: I excuse me, I had a squam of silk ass

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Speaker 2: and I would cut off my temple.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, was that like a cleary whitey color, No,

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Speaker 1: it was.

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Speaker 2: It looked like it looked like a big wart and

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Speaker 2: it come up real fast. And I had to go

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Speaker 2: to three different doctors to get them to actually even

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Speaker 2: test it. They were just like, I'll come back in

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Speaker 2: a few months.

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Speaker 3: It's nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens a bit. I think. I think they

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Speaker 1: give it a mile. Not most doctors, because most doctors

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Speaker 1: are brilliant, but the old one goes, nah, you'll be right,

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Speaker 1: slap on the back, so you and actually you won't

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Speaker 1: be right. So it is worse some investigating. Where you at, Johan, I.

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Speaker 3: Am in Corndale in New South Wales, which is about

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Speaker 3: twenty five minutes out of liz Moore. So yes, my

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Speaker 3: little community where Macedamia farmer's here and we love it.

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Speaker 3: But it's been a really tough year for our little

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Speaker 3: community and you know, we're not out of the woods yet.

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Speaker 3: So just shout out to the northern rivers of New

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Speaker 3: South Wales.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to you guys and girls and everyone. It's

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Speaker 1: a natural transition, you know, academia farming from swimming. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's what most people do, so yeah, yeah, but you know, nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: do you want to explain to us the journey between

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Speaker 1: those two very obviously linked careers.

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Speaker 3: I think I can start by saying that the thing

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Speaker 3: when I'm so grateful for my swimming career, so grateful

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Speaker 3: for it, but I do not miss it at all,

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Speaker 3: and for one of those plenty of reasons which we'll

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Speaker 3: get into later of why that is such a healthy

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Speaker 3: way to be, but one of them was probably what

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Speaker 3: I grew to dislike most about swimming was the monotony,

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Speaker 3: every day same. I don't think most people have thought

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Speaker 3: about this, but as a as a swimmer, I just

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Speaker 3: some time I got to the end of my career

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Speaker 3: and I just at training didn't feel like getting wet.

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Speaker 3: I didn't, you know. I was like, I'm not lazy,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to work hard. I'll go for a run,

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Speaker 3: I'll go to the gym, I'll do I just don't

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Speaker 3: want to get in the pool. And you know, there

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Speaker 3: is no real cross training in the sport. There are

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Speaker 3: little things you can do, but ultimately just got to

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Speaker 3: do laps. That's where it's at. And no one thought

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Speaker 3: about this. You know, if you're a cyclist, you can

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Speaker 3: change your scenery. If you're a runner, you can change

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Speaker 3: your scenery and change your motivation. Let me tell you,

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Speaker 3: a pool is a pool. No matter where you are

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Speaker 3: in the world, the same feel There is nothing about

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Speaker 3: it that feels any different. No matter where you are

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Speaker 3: in the world, A pool is a pool. And so

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Speaker 3: it's the monotony that probably got me more than anything

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Speaker 3: by the end of it. And what I wanted from

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Speaker 3: my life after was to not have any of that

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Speaker 3: monotony exist. And I've really got that. I've been really

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Speaker 3: fortunate that no day has ever been the same two

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Speaker 3: days had never been the same ever since I had

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Speaker 3: walked away from the sport of swimming. And I absolutely

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Speaker 3: love that component of it. But it wasn't until I'm

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Speaker 3: a city girl, you know, grew up in Brisbane and

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Speaker 3: the Gold Coast and then moved to Melbourne, lived in

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Speaker 3: Melbourne and met my now husband, Sam, who is anything

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Speaker 3: but city boy. He was a mustering chop, a pilot

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Speaker 3: when we met. When we first got married, we had

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Speaker 3: a cattle farm in Euroa outside of Melbourne, and so

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Speaker 3: he grew up on the land. He's a fifth generation

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Speaker 3: cattle farmer and we were on the Gold Coast. We

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Speaker 3: were looking for a weekend a slash holiday house that

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Speaker 3: was a farm that could pay for itself. We couldn't

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Speaker 3: afford it without that. It needed to be able to

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Speaker 3: pay for itself, couldn't afford cattle country where we were looking.

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Speaker 3: Stumbled across a maca farm and thought, how hard can

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Speaker 3: it be? And as it turns out, pretty bloody hard.

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Speaker 1: I don't know for one moment why you would think

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Speaker 1: that would be easy, but probably because everything else came

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Speaker 1: easy because you're a freak. It is interesting with swimmers

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Speaker 1: like I trained a few swimmers and a bunch of athletes,

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Speaker 1: but I trained to somebody that maybe, well, she definitely

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Speaker 1: preceded you. I don't know if you ever overlapped it

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Speaker 1: and swam together, Nicole Livingston.

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Speaker 3: But I'm very glad we didn't overlap Craig because she's

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Speaker 3: extraordinary and she's hardcore as a swimmer. She has such

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Speaker 3: an incredible reputation of just being the toughest on pool deck.

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Speaker 3: So I was really lucky that our paths never crossed

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Speaker 3: in the swimming pool. But I credit Nicole and Duncan

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Speaker 3: Armstrong with mentoring me through the early transition into commentary

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Speaker 3: and TV life.

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Speaker 1: I got them.

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Speaker 3: I got the best of that world in its entirey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you've done all right, She's done all right.

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Speaker 1: But I remember I didn't meet her till she'd just

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Speaker 1: finished well no, not just she'd finished swimming. But and anyway,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember how we met, but we became friends.

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Speaker 1: We're still friends. And so I owned a bunch of

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Speaker 1: gyms down here, and she trained in one of my gyms,

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Speaker 1: and I ended up training her and just general stay

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Speaker 1: in shape, be fit, strong, healthy stuff. I remember. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't ask her. I don't know why I didn't

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Speaker 1: ask her, but I didn't ask her for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I said, by the way, when was the last time

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Speaker 1: you went? You were in a pool? And it was

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Speaker 1: literally like her last meet or whatever, the last like

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Speaker 1: she'd never been. She goes, I fucking hate pools, she goes.

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Speaker 1: If I never swim again, it'll be too soon. I'm like, really,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure she doesn't actually mean that, but she

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Speaker 1: was in no hurry to go for a swim. She goes,

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Speaker 1: I would literally rather do any anything you want to

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Speaker 1: give me anything, I would do over swimming.

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Speaker 3: I'm like incur. I have not swum a lap since

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Speaker 3: the day I walked away in March two thousand and six.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I even own togs that would be appropriate

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Speaker 3: to go for a swim in.

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Speaker 1: That's hilarious.

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Speaker 3: As I said, a lot of people are shocked at that.

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Speaker 3: I really shocked at the fact that there's you know,

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Speaker 3: they're like swimmings in your blood. You loved this, you

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Speaker 3: were so good at it. Why would you not do

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Speaker 3: it anymore? And for me, there's a number of reasons,

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Speaker 3: but I very quickly liken it to particularly by the

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Speaker 3: end of my career, it was my job. It was

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Speaker 3: my job. Yes, you know I was good at it

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Speaker 3: and I loved it, but it was my job. And

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Speaker 3: so I asked people to say, when you retire one day,

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Speaker 3: will you go to the office and sit in front

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Speaker 3: of your computer and swing on your chair just for

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Speaker 3: the fun of it. And they're like no, And I'm like,

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Speaker 3: that's how I felt about going and doing laps in

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Speaker 3: the pool. The second thing for me is I loved racing.

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Speaker 3: I loved racing. I needed racing. By the end of it,

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Speaker 3: I hated training because all I wanted to do was

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Speaker 3: the racing component. And I couldn't do one without the other.

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Speaker 3: And in a sport like swimming, you know, it's twice

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Speaker 3: a year that you get to do the component that

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Speaker 3: I loved. The rest of it is doing the hard yards.

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Speaker 3: So I've always said that if I could have been

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Speaker 3: like a football player or a basketballer, or you know,

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Speaker 3: got to do the part that I loved every weekend,

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Speaker 3: I'd probably still be forty years of age like I

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Speaker 3: am now trying to make the ustrain swim team. But

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Speaker 3: when that isn't that isn't an option on the table,

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Speaker 3: then it's like right, you know, okay, move on. But

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Speaker 3: on top of it, I was really lucky. I actually

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Speaker 3: got to leave my sport on my terms, when I

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Speaker 3: was ready, with no regrets and ultimately feeling proud of

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Speaker 3: my achievements and ready for the next challenge. So it's

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Speaker 3: actually a really healthy place to be. As I said,

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Speaker 3: I'm so grateful for it, but I don't miss it,

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Speaker 3: and that's a really healthy place to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny you say that I've never It makes

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Speaker 1: complete sense, and I don't know why I haven't thought

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Speaker 1: of it. I should have. I've never thought about that

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Speaker 1: in that you would only compete, race, do the thing

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Speaker 1: that you actually want to do a couple of times

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Speaker 1: a year versus an AFL or AFL W player or whatever,

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Speaker 1: who who does it twenty times a year. Yep, who

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Speaker 1: is competing every weekend or you know even even other

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Speaker 1: athletes in different fields who do it way more than that.

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Speaker 1: Because yeah, it's the and and also because your training

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Speaker 1: is not it's part like the actual training itself is brutal,

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Speaker 1: is brutal, and it's not social and it's stupidly fucking

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Speaker 1: early in the day, come on, right, But when you're

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Speaker 1: running around a basketball court with your mates, talking shit,

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Speaker 1: having fun, you know you're training, it's social, it's it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're training, your sweating, you're developing skill. But it's like

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Speaker 1: it's it's not mind numbing, you know, it's not mine numbing.

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Speaker 1: Like there's socialization and I know the outside of the

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Speaker 1: pool there's connection and all of that. But do you

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Speaker 1: think that because swimming is such a brutal sport psychologically, emotionally, physiologically, sociologically,

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Speaker 1: you can't have a fucking social life if you're elite swimmer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good luck with that. And also financially, like there ain't

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Speaker 1: many swimmers in their twenties. There are some, of course,

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Speaker 1: but there ain't many that are making heaps of dough.

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Speaker 1: So you're putting off your career. You're putting all these

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Speaker 1: things on hold to swim for glory. Unless you're a

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Speaker 1: big deal like you are you fucking big deal, high watermark,

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Speaker 1: big deal, shp your business card, said Jean Rooney, big deal.

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Speaker 1: I went okay. So by the time you get to

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Speaker 1: twenty four, like you, you're like, fuck it. I've been

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Speaker 1: doing this for more way over half my life. I'm done.

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Speaker 3: There's lots in it. One of the things as well,

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Speaker 3: is that you've also got to remember in sportlight swimming,

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Speaker 3: there's no off season. There's no chance. You know, we

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Speaker 3: got two weeks off a year, and you were lucky

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Speaker 3: to get those two weeks off a year because a

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Speaker 3: lot of the old school coaches had a mentality that

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Speaker 3: we as swimmers also believe that for every week that

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Speaker 3: you take out of the water, it's three weeks to

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Speaker 3: get back to where you were before that week. So

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Speaker 3: when you're talking about a sports that's won and lost

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Speaker 3: by one hundredths of a second, in a lot of cases,

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Speaker 3: that mentality of taking time away from the sport is

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Speaker 3: terrifying because you catch up process is so difficult. And

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Speaker 3: I knew that to be true for me, particularly because

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Speaker 3: our last session of a week used to be in

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Speaker 3: the water, used to be on a Saturday morning, and

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Speaker 3: our first session of the week was a Monday morning.

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Speaker 3: So one day off a week, Sundays off, and every

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Speaker 3: Monday morning of my life, my entire swimming career. I

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Speaker 3: felt like I was starting again. I felt like I

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Speaker 3: was a hot knife through butter. Is the analogy where

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Speaker 3: I couldn't hold water, I didn't feel strong in the water.

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Speaker 3: I felt like my body had almost forgotten how to

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Speaker 3: swim after one day out. And that's why there's no

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Speaker 3: cross training in sport of swimming. That's why we do

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Speaker 3: so many kilometers. That's why we do so much work

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Speaker 3: just inside the pool is because we's humans aren't really

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Speaker 3: meant to swim. We're land based creatures, and so we're

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Speaker 3: doing something that isn't fundamentally natural for our bodies, and

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Speaker 3: we've just got to put in the mileage. And so

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Speaker 3: that not only plays into your physical psyche, that plays

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Speaker 3: into of course your mental and your emotional psyche as well.

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Speaker 3: So there is no off season, there's no time away,

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Speaker 3: there's no downtime, so to speak. And you know that

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Speaker 3: every session that you're not giving your absolute one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent best in at training is a training session that

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Speaker 3: some one of your competitors somewhere around the world could

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Speaker 3: be which could be the difference between you winning and

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Speaker 3: losing by hundreds of second on race day.

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Speaker 1: So many things out of what you just said, I

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Speaker 1: want to unpack. Okay, oh fucking giddy up. Here we go,

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Speaker 1: Like that makes no sense physiologically, Like, it makes no

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Speaker 1: sense that you should have to train that much, especially

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Speaker 1: when you're ten or twelve years old. Me, as an

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Speaker 1: exercise scientist, I go overtrained, overtrained, undercovered, overtrained. It's going

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Speaker 1: to have a negative impact on performance, on skill, on recovery,

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Speaker 1: on health, on your immune system. It doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: I know you're not a physiologist, but you're we're an

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Speaker 1: elite athlete and you're a smarty pants you know all

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Speaker 1: about macadamias and swimming. What's your theory? Like, like, what

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Speaker 1: other athlete you know? If I mean, I'm just an

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Speaker 1: dodgy bloke who's been lifting weights for one hundred years,

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Speaker 1: but if I have a day off or two days off,

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Speaker 1: the third day I come back, I'm fucking superman, Like,

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Speaker 1: what is that about?

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Speaker 3: Well, okay, so first and foremost it's changed a lot,

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Speaker 3: and for the better because but so I retired in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and six, and I probably came at a

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Speaker 3: time where, you know, I started training. My first coach

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Speaker 3: was Dennis Kottrell. Incredible, awesome love Dennis, but a full

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Speaker 3: mentality of you do mileage, and you do lots of it.

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Speaker 3: Essentially one of the greatest distance coaches the world's ever seen.

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Speaker 3: I was only laying next to you know, Daniel Kowowski

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Speaker 3: and Grant Hackett for most of my career. Success stories

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Speaker 3: speak for themselves. But in that time before that, we've

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Speaker 3: also heard about you know, Laurie Lawrence. Lorie Lawrence had

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Speaker 3: a stable pool full of superstars. But there was kind

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Speaker 3: of a joke that which wasn't funny at all. But

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Speaker 3: to succeed in Laurrie Lawrence's squad, you either were Olympic

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Speaker 3: gold medalist by the age of twenty or you had

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Speaker 3: two shoulder reacs behind you do you know, like it

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Speaker 3: was one or the other. And for a lot of

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Speaker 3: those early swimming days. It really was survival of the toughest,

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Speaker 3: not the fittest, the toughest. And I was lucky enough

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Speaker 3: that I had a body that isn't very flexible at all.

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Speaker 3: But I wasn't. I wasn't. I guess I have a

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Speaker 3: lot of the overuse injuries or being hyper mobile that

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Speaker 3: a lot of swimmers suffer from, and mentally I could

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Speaker 3: deal with the work because that's that's also where I

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Speaker 3: got my confidence from. I got my confidence from getting

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Speaker 3: up on race day and looking at the other seven

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Speaker 3: girls lined up across from me across the pool and going,

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Speaker 3: get the hell out of my way, bitches, I've done

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Speaker 3: more work than you. I deserve this and could honestly

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Speaker 3: believe that in that time, like you know, would wave

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Speaker 3: to the crowd with a smile on my face, looking

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Speaker 3: like a cheerleader when they announced my name on pool deck.

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Speaker 3: But mentally, I was telling myself and honestly one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent believe it that I'd done more work than anyone else.

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Speaker 3: Therefore I deserved it more, and that's where I got

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Speaker 3: my confidence from. So I had to believe that whereas

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Speaker 3: the great thing is now I was just speaking to

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Speaker 3: Emma mckehon. You know our greatest Olympia the other day. Now,

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Speaker 3: she had three months off, three months out of the pool.

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Speaker 3: When they delayed the Tokyo Olympic announcement by a year,

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Speaker 3: three months away, coach Michael Bole said, go, don't think

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Speaker 3: about swimming. It's too hard to be in that intense

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Speaker 3: mindset for this long. Go go and do something else

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Speaker 3: and take your mind off it. We'll come back to

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Speaker 3: it now. That for me in my time would have

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Speaker 3: been suicide. Like I could not have taken three months

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Speaker 3: away that close to an Olympics and had the confidence

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Speaker 3: to get up on race day. So that's where it's evolved.

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Speaker 3: And then Emma also took three months off after she

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Speaker 3: was our most successful Olympian in Tokyo and came back,

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Speaker 3: you know what I would consider completely unprepared, without much

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Speaker 3: fitness or mileage behind her, to have an extraordinary Commonwealth

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Speaker 3: Games and swim brilliantly. And so it's very foreign to me,

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Speaker 3: but it's also really exciting for me to see that

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Speaker 3: the sport is evolving and that we're not only understanding

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Speaker 3: what you're talking about now, but on top of it,

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Speaker 3: we're keeping our athletes in the sports so much longer

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Speaker 3: than we ever did before because they are having these

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Speaker 3: breaks both mentally and physically and allowing them to recover

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Speaker 3: properly before the next campaign. It's really exciting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such I don't know if you read this

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Speaker 1: when you did a sneak peek at what we do.

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Speaker 1: But I'm doing a PhD in neuropsych and so I'm

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Speaker 1: more fascinated with minds than bodies. And in fact, even

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Speaker 1: when I was, you know, I owned gyms and did

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Speaker 1: all that stuff and train lots of athletes and teams.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I'm fascinated with physiology, anatomy and physical performance,

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Speaker 1: but I'm more fascinated with the mind and the brain

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Speaker 1: and being able to like, it's funny how you that are.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't have had three months off, I couldn't have coped,

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Speaker 1: and and that's really a psychological reaction to a thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, And and maybe you would have been better

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Speaker 1: or worse. You probably would have been worse based on

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Speaker 1: how you explained it. But it's really interesting to see

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Speaker 1: the way that training and recovery and performance and the

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Speaker 1: integration of coaching and progressive overload and periodization and psychology

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Speaker 1: and nutrition all of it's like now everyone's starting to

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Speaker 1: work together. When I started working with for example, some

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Speaker 1: killed a football club, which was when were you born

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Speaker 1: eighty two? I started working with them in eighty in nine. Fuck,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, no, no, about

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Speaker 1: in the late eighties when you were like three, and

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Speaker 1: it was so fundamental and rudimentary. H No, it was

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Speaker 1: in the nineties. But even then, everything like nothing worked synergistically.

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Speaker 1: There was like the dietitian over there and the strength

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Speaker 1: guy over there, and the fitness guy over there, and

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Speaker 1: the coaching staff and there was no connection communication. And

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Speaker 1: now at least we're starting to see like a holistic

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Speaker 1: I hate that word, but it'll do for now approach

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Speaker 1: to managing, and not just in sport, but outside of sport.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm working with people where we talk about sleep,

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Speaker 1: we talk about nutrition, we talk about movement, we talk

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Speaker 1: about anxiety and stress, we talk about lifestyle, we talk

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Speaker 1: about work life balance or impact like all of these

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Speaker 1: things where we go this is this is you know

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Speaker 1: project you or perhaps the you project we should call it,

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Speaker 1: you know, and like things have really evolved though.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and for the better, because I think it's even

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Speaker 3: like the way that we're approaching well hopefully that we

399
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Speaker 3: are approaching, but we approaching medicine and individualistic health. We

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Speaker 3: are all individuals, We're all completely different. You can't apply

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Speaker 3: one overarching thought and apply it to every human on

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Speaker 3: the planet. And that's the same when you're an athlete.

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Speaker 3: And I think theming is is or has been one

404
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Speaker 3: of the more old schools sports historically, where you know,

405
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Speaker 3: you joined a squad because you thought that their training

406
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Speaker 3: program would be the most or the best suited to

407
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Speaker 3: your strokes and or distance that you swam. So once

408
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Speaker 3: you're in that squad, it's not like, oh, Ujian are

409
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Speaker 3: going to have this program today, and U Craig, you're

410
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Speaker 3: going to have this program over here today, and you know,

411
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Speaker 3: you Tiffany are going to have this program like you're

412
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Speaker 3: all doing the same set. You're all doing the same

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Speaker 3: program every single session. And so there was never in

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Speaker 3: my day and individual training to and that for me

415
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Speaker 3: at that time, really played into what I needed because

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Speaker 3: I was quite often the only female in a squad

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Speaker 3: full of boys, So there wasn't a female time cycle

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Speaker 3: and a male time cycle. That's time cycle I had

419
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Speaker 3: to keep up with the slowest guy. Otherwise I didn't

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Speaker 3: keep up, So again that played into my psyche on

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Speaker 3: race day of I can race you, I know how

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Speaker 3: to race you. I'm okay with this because I've trained

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Speaker 3: with boys or I've done this amount of work, and

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Speaker 3: that gave me the confidence. But it's also the reason

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Speaker 3: why I walked away from the sport at twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Using Emma again. Emma was twenty seven when she won

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Speaker 3: seven Olympic medals in Tokyo, and he's going to Paris

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four where she'll be what thirty Kay

429
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: Campbell is trying to make her fifth Olympics, where she'll

430
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: be I think thirty two or thirty three. So we've

431
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 3: always Summers have always physiologically been capable of being well

432
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 3: into our late twenties early thirties, of reaching our physical

433
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 3: peak performance, but historically, mentally, we've never made it, and

434
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: that's because of the brutal, monotonous nature of the training

435
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 3: for that sport.

436
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that I was going to literally

437
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: ask you because physiologically there's no reason other than somebody's injured.

438
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: But there's no you know, there's no reason why at

439
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: thirty four done everything done well, and you know, nutrition

440
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: and recovery and training, and that somebody couldn't be as

441
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: good or better than when they were twenty four depending

442
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: on the event and all of that. But speaking of

443
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: speaking of over training and brutality and ridiculously tough athletes,

444
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: I trained, I tried trained a five time Olympian whose

445
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: name's Jackie Cooper, and she's completely crazy. She's a lunatic.

446
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: She had thirty six operations. She just had a full

447
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: hip replacement six and a half months ago. I'm actually

448
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: training her now. She comes and trains when I train,

449
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: and I just tell her what today. She's still absolutely

450
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: But it's funny because some people like I don't even

451
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: know what it is with her, but there's something in

452
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: her and yet she would so I'm not being rude.

453
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: She's been on the show a couple of times, so

454
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: everyone knows her. But when I say, she's borderline crazy

455
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: as in just out there, but she trains even now.

456
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: She's fifty in a minute, I think she's fifty in

457
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,239
Speaker 1: a month or two. And even when she comes to

458
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: the gym, she trains so hard it's ridiculous. I'm like

459
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: steady on Champ there's no event coming up. It's all good.

460
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: Let's just wind it back a little bit. But there's

461
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: something innate in some people where and it's not just

462
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: that they have a high pain threshold, but there's something

463
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: that you know, in exo science we call it rate

464
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: of perceived exertion RPE. You know, where people kind of

465
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: over the years, I would say there's someone, how hard

466
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: are you working? Out of ten? And they'd say nine,

467
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: and I know they're working at four, right, yep. Whereas

468
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: Jackie will be working in eleven and she'll tell you seven. Yep.

469
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: You know, yep.

470
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 3: Jackie. Love her, but she's also what you're describing, for

471
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 3: me is the ultimate athlete. When you say, though there

472
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 3: are some people that just have the ability to push

473
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 3: themselves harder than is should be humanly possible, that for

474
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: me is the ultimate athlete. And I'm the first person

475
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 3: to put my hand up and say that's not me.

476
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: I was incredibly competitive. I will back myself and say

477
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: I was an incredibly hard worker. I had enough natural

478
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: talent to get me through. But I also am very

479
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: aware of the fact that I was an above average

480
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 3: athlete in a superstar era that got tarnished with the

481
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: same brush as my contemporaries. But that also sits really

482
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: comfortably with me, because when I said to you, I

483
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 3: left my sport with no regrets. I was the best

484
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 3: athlete I could be. There is nothing more I could

485
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 3: have done to be any better than what I was.

486
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 3: Whereas there I think, again, that's a really healthy mindset

487
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 3: to have. Whereas the ultimate athletes, those hardcore athletes that

488
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: we talk about, the Jackie Coopers of the world, the

489
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: Grant Hackets of the world, the Lydia Lasslas of the world,

490
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 3: there are so many of them that they actually when

491
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: they finish their sport, they actually don't have that switch

492
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: off button. They have to find something else that allows

493
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: them to push their bodies and their minds all the time.

494
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 3: They never stop having that. Whereas for me, as I said,

495
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: I was ultimate competitor, but I am, funnily enough, not

496
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 3: competitive in any other aspect of my life. I do

497
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: not feel the need to push myself physically. And maybe

498
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: that ties into the fact that you know, everyone says, oh,

499
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 3: don't you miss being fit, and I'm like no, because

500
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 3: fit for me at that level meant physical, emotional, mental

501
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: exhaustion every day of my life. I felt like I

502
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 3: was eighty five getting out of bed every day of

503
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 3: my life. So now I am happier, arguably healthier, more positive,

504
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 3: and a happier person now than I ever was when

505
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 3: I was supposedly at my fittest. So I've got no idea,

506
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 3: I've got no desire to revisit that in any way,

507
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: shape or form. Whereas for so many hardcore athletes, they

508
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: need that in their everyday life continuously to feel like

509
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: they are worthy, to feel like they are, you know, healthy,

510
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: if you like, to feel like they are still in

511
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: that successful state of mind that they were when they

512
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: were a successful athlete. Whereas I'm really fortunate. I love

513
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: my job, I love my life. I'm not competitive in

514
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: any other shape or you know way, shape or form,

515
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 3: and I'm pretty content where everything sits. How bloody lucky

516
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: am I?

517
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: You're bloody lucky, but you're not lucky because you've built it,

518
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: you created it. It almost seems to me like being

519
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: an elite, I mean elite, top of the tree, world

520
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: class performer and being mentally and healthily mentally and emotionally healthy,

521
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: socially healthy, balanced, calm, lacking anxiety, sleeping well, It's like

522
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: those things don't go together. It's like, yeah, if you

523
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: want to be like mentally and emotionally healthy, don't be

524
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: an elite swimmer like you you am I right ish?

525
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: Or does it vary?

526
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: I think it varies, but I think you're probably right.

527
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 3: One of the things I will say that with my

528
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: greatest asset it has been throughout my life, is the

529
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 3: ability to sleep anywhere under any circumstances in duress, and

530
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: so I never quite realized it when I was an athlete.

531
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: I knew it was a positive, but I could fall

532
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: asleep on a barb wife fence in the middle of

533
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: the middayne with ants crawling on top of me like

534
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 3: I had no problems going to sleep, even during major competitions.

535
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: I never required sleeping tablets to switch off at night

536
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: after a race, knowing that I had a heat the

537
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 3: next morning. My brain was obviously incredibly adaptive in being

538
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: able to say, Okay, you're tired, you've got something that

539
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: you need to deal with. I need to switch you off,

540
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 3: and then when you wake up in the morning, you'll

541
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 3: be rational enough to deal with whatever you need to

542
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: deal with. So almost the more stressed I was about

543
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 3: something or had a decision to make or had something

544
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 3: hanging over my head. The more stressed I was, the

545
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: better I slept. And never realized what an huge asset

546
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: that was across my whole entire life until it was

547
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 3: taken away from me when I had a baby. For

548
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 3: the first time I ever felt like I was failing

549
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: in life. I had two I've got two kids who

550
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: I loved dearly, but I've never felt like I was

551
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: failing properly before I was doing something that is meant

552
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: to be so fundamentally natural. So I went to sleep

553
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: school with one child and two sleep consultants with another.

554
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: And that's the thing out of everything I've done in

555
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: my life that nearly broke me.

556
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Well, I mean that will I was going

557
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: to say, what a gift it is that the kids

558
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,239
Speaker 1: kind of threw a spinner in that work in that

559
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: for you. But being able to people, I mean, we

560
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: kind of get it. But you know, for me, even

561
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: as an exercise in inverted commas loosely expert, right, I

562
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: still say to people that bad sleep, consistent bad sleep,

563
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: is way worse for your health than not exercising. You

564
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: should exercise, but if you're working out and your diet's good,

565
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: but you are consistently getting three hours of sleep a

566
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: night for an extended even for a week, like your

567
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: body just crashes. It's people don't understand, Like people go, yeah, yeah,

568
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: of course, stay hydrated and sleep. Yeah, we get all that. No,

569
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: it's way more important than because your body can't reset,

570
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, or your nervous system, you're endo crime system,

571
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: cardiovascular system, respiratory, it can't reboot, reset and wake up fresh,

572
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: ready to go if it hasn't had enough time, you know.

573
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: And I think that's probably where you'd be so well

574
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: placed to answer this, Craig. And the fact that you know,

575
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: I feel like everyone around us after the last few

576
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: years that we've had suffering from like a drenal exhaustion.

577
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: You know, there has been so much going on that

578
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: is out of our control. There is so much that

579
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: has you know, caused us to look at our life priorities,

580
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: look at our work priorities, look at our family priorities,

581
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 3: look at every aspect of our life in ways that

582
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 3: we never have before. And you know, I said to

583
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 3: you before we started, I feel like, you know, everyone

584
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 3: I know, myself included, we're just limping towards the end

585
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 3: of the year, we're like, just you know, we're on crutches,

586
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, we're limping towards the end of the year.

587
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: And I just think sleep, as you said, is such

588
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: an integral part of our life, and I don't think

589
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: we pay it enough attention. And it was why I

590
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: went to sleep school with my son Xander, because giving

591
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: your child for me, one of the most important things

592
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 3: I could give my child was the gift of sleep,

593
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 3: because I know insomniacts. My dad has always struggled to

594
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: sleep since being a shift worker. I know plenty of

595
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 3: people where it's their biggest downfall in their life is

596
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 3: their lack of quality sleep. And that's the one thing

597
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: I wanted to give my children, was this gift of

598
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: being able to sleep and sleep well and reset, reset

599
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 3: your mind, and have that as an asset in your life.

600
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: It's interesting, there's such a and we know this now

601
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: but we don't even necessarily understand the link. But you

602
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: think about like in the middle of COVID, some people

603
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: thrived and some people capitulated or you know, really really

604
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: struggled understandably, and then people go, oh, yeah, but those

605
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: people had it harder or whatever, and the the truth

606
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: is sometimes like sometimes, so there's this, there's this the stimulus, right,

607
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 1: there's the thing that's happening, and then there's the physiological consequence,

608
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: which is I can't sleep, I'm producing adrenaline, cortisol, nouropin,

609
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: efrom my sympathetic nervous systems elevated. There's all this shit

610
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: going on in my body and now I'm in a

611
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: stress state. But there's this space in the middle, which

612
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: is the mind, and it's the mind's reaction to the thing.

613
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: The mind creates the physiology, not the thing, because if

614
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: COVID created a stress response, then everyone would have had

615
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: a stress response and they didn't. Everybody would have endured

616
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: significant mental health issues and they didn't. Which is not

617
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: to say people are good or bad, strong, all weak.

618
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: It's just understanding because when people go, oh, you made

619
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: me feel like this, I'm like, no, that isn't true,

620
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: or COVID did this to me, and I understand. I'm

621
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: not saying, by the way, anyone don't lose your shit.

622
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm not saying COVID wasn't fucking horrible. I get it.

623
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: But in the middle of that, there's still this space

624
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: where I get to self regulate and say, Okay, what

625
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: am I what story? Because if I'm telling myself a

626
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: story of doom and gloom, even if there is no

627
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: doom and gloom, but I tell myself that story and

628
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: I believe that story, then that becomes an experience in

629
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: my body. And we're just starting to understand now in

630
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: a really correlated way where we understand the external stimulus,

631
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: the cognitive processing, the story about the stimulus, and then

632
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: the consequence of the story, which is all the shit

633
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: in my body. And then when we start you love

634
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: this word, it's called metacognition. When we start to think

635
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: about where that thinking comes from, that metacognitive process, then

636
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: all of a sudden we realize, oh, that thing is

637
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: stimulating me, but I am creating the stress response which

638
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: makes it. It doesn't fix it, but just opening that

639
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: door on that awareness is a really good starting point.

640
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 3: I really loved the analogy during COVID where you know,

641
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 3: everyone started off by saying we're all in the same boat,

642
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 3: and then some smart cookie came up with the analogy,

643
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: which I really think is the right way of saying,

644
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 3: is that we're not all in the same boat. We're

645
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 3: all in the same storm. We're all in the same storm,

646
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 3: but someone's in a super yacht, someone's in a fishing boat,

647
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 3: someone's in a leaking tinny. You know, like we're all

648
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: in the same storm, but we're not all in the

649
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: same boat. And I think that, again, is the response's

650
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: to it. And as you mentioned, you know, the mental

651
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 3: capacity of different people and also what they were dealing

652
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: with outside of the pandemic itself. And you know, again,

653
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 3: we moved to the farm one week before the queensli

654
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 3: Knew South Wales border shut and all of a sudden,

655
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: you know, my mum and dad are up there, don't

656
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 3: know when we're going to see them. I missed commentating

657
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: on the Tokyo Olympics because I couldn't get to Melbourne

658
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 3: because Victoria shut their borders with New South Wales. And

659
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: you know, everyone was like, oh, you know, this is

660
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: just terrible and this is awful, and I was like, look,

661
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: you know, at the end of the day, I'm in

662
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 3: a great position. I'm healthy, my family is healthy. Yes,

663
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 3: I can't get to some of my family. Yes I

664
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 3: can't do my job that I love, Yes I can't

665
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 3: do this, that and the other. But there are people

666
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 3: dealing with a lot worse and perspective is a great thing.

667
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: You know, at the end of the day, a shit

668
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,479
Speaker 3: can hit the fan as much as you walk around you.

669
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: As you said, your response to that shit hitting the

670
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 3: fan is what will either see you thrive or just

671
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 3: merely survive a situation.

672
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: I think one of the great things about doing what

673
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: you did and tips a tips a bit of an athlete.

674
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: Tip gets in the boxing ring and gets punched in

675
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: the face. You know, probably not the same Olympic level

676
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: as you, but she'd kicked the shit out of me,

677
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: which is not hard. But when you go through hard

678
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: stuff like you do hard training, you have to be resilient.

679
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: You have to just find a way. You're constantly working

680
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: against resistance and you're putting yourself in uncomfortable, kind of

681
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: crappy situations, which are a necessity of the skill development,

682
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: fitness development, mindset development to perform at the highest level.

683
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: But once you've kind of built that capacity and that

684
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: ability to do hard shit and to be comfortable in

685
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 1: the middle of disc I feel like that life beyond

686
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: whatever that was becomes or is more manageable because you

687
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: know how to do hard things and survive and thrive.

688
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 3: I completely agree, and I would have one hundred percent

689
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 3: agreed with that statement. But I always used to think

690
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: when I retired from simming, you know, my first first

691
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 3: thought process was, ah, thank God, the hardest thing I'll

692
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 3: ever do in my life is behind me, Like, bring

693
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 3: on whatever you want, because that nothing can ever be

694
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 3: as hard as what I've just done. And then I

695
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 3: had a child and that all changed, but for very

696
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 3: different reasons. It was it was only physically hard from

697
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 3: the sleep deprivation. It was just far more challenging on

698
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: the emotional and mental side because it was out of

699
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: my control and I didn't know how to fix it.

700
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: But I completely agree with you in the fact, and

701
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 3: we've also got to separate, you know, be very very

702
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 3: honest here. Talk about Jackie Cooper and Lydia Lascilla and

703
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 3: even you know, jockeys and to an extent surface like

704
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 3: my sport, you were never going to hurt yourself, Like

705
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 3: there was never a component of I could not a

706
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 3: high risk event, not a high risk event. You know,

707
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: the worst thing I could possibly do is probably run

708
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: into the wall at full speed and you know, hurt

709
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: myself in that sense, or have an asthma attack and

710
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 3: drown in the pool, which would be ironic, but you know,

711
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: you look at these hardcore athletes that when they are competing,

712
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 3: they're actually putting their lives at risk. Like that's a

713
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: whole new mindset, that's a whole new ball game. It's entirety.

714
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: And I don't possess that component. And I just think,

715
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: you know, they are the next level of hardcore beings.

716
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: But it's amazing how you take the sport component away

717
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: and like what I'm talking about with motherhood or anything

718
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 3: else like that, And you know, we all have the

719
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 3: same We're all human. We all have things that we

720
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 3: think we're going to excel at we actually don't. Or

721
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 3: we all think we can apply what we've learned in

722
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: our life to every scenario going forward and it will

723
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: always work. And I've always said there is I've very

724
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 3: quickly come to learn that hard work doesn't always equal success,

725
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 3: that equation doesn't always play out. But you have to

726
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 3: find a way, also from your mental state of mind

727
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: to know that or to be able to say that

728
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 3: nine times out of ten it does work, that equation

729
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 3: does work. And so I'm banking on the odds.

730
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: Now, I know we've got to go soon because you've

731
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: got stuff on cuz you're a big deal. I was thinking,

732
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: I was thinking before we chatted, I wanted to ask you.

733
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: I've asked a few athletes, and it feels like it

734
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: sounds like you did this really easily. But a lot

735
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 1: of athletes understandably their identity and their sense of self

736
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: and who they are and their self esteem is top

737
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: into their sport and their sporting ability. And so I've

738
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: seen lots of especially athletes who had to retire or

739
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: were sacked AFL players for example, and their career ended

740
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 1: when they didn't think it was going to end and

741
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: they had just lost, and many of them falling into

742
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: a depression, like a real mental and emotional funk, and

743
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: some of them, you know, are suicidal and like don't

744
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: go well is that do you think that's because you

745
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: are basically you are, Like what you do in your case,

746
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 1: swimming is who you are. It's like like when people

747
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: would talk to you for a very long time, it

748
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: would primarily only about be about swimming, training, performance, recovery.

749
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be like, oh, what do you think of labor

750
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: or liberal law? What do you think about paleo ge'm

751
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: you know, or you know, it's like that, so that's

752
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: who who you are, and then you wake up one

753
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: day and you're twenty four and you're like, nah, fuck this.

754
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 3: I think that's probably where I was a bit different,

755
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: in the fact that I never just defined myself as

756
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 3: an athlete the point where was always something that I did,

757
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 3: I loved, and I was good at, but it was

758
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: never me in my entireety. And you know, especially once

759
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: you go to an Olympics, nearly every athlete gets the

760
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 3: Olympic rings tattooed on themselves and I didn't. And I've

761
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 3: never felt the need to. I've never had that desire

762
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: to have that. And that's not because I'm not proud

763
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: of it. I don't feel defined by it. I'm incredibly

764
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 3: proud of that achievement, but I don't need it on

765
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 3: myself to be reminded of it every day to feel

766
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 3: proud of myself. It's a comfortable it's a comfortable feeling

767
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 3: a pride that I exist with. I don't need to

768
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 3: see it to be reminded of it, and I don't

769
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 3: need anyone else else to ask me about it to

770
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 3: feel proud of it. It just within me. Which again

771
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 3: I think is really healthy place to be. I also

772
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: think one of the biggest problems with transitions from elite

773
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 3: athletes is the fact that they don't get to leave,

774
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 3: as you said, on their terms. I was very fortunate

775
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 3: that I did so the feeling of regret of I

776
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 3: could have done more or I wanted to do more

777
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 3: is ever prevalent there. I also think, and this might

778
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: be a little bit controversial, that a lot of male

779
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 3: athletes have more of a struggle with life after than

780
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: female And my take on that is that male athletes,

781
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 3: when they're in that elite world, are the most selfish

782
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 3: people on the planet. And that sounds really negative when

783
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 3: you say it like that, but it's actually what allows

784
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 3: them to be so good because they are they are

785
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 3: almost able to exist in a world where everyone around them,

786
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 3: their support team, their partner, their family, everyone around them

787
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: exists too support them to achieve their dream, and they

788
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 3: are very comfortable with them being the center of that

789
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: world and everyone existing around them to help them achieve

790
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 3: that goal. I think why say male and not female.

791
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 3: For the most part, female athletes or females have a

792
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: natural maternal instinct where we have to also look after

793
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: that team in the same way that they're looking after us.

794
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 3: We have to return the favor if you like. But

795
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 3: the problem is is that not only is that thought

796
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 3: process encouraged as an elite athlete to be incredibly selfish

797
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 3: and to focus only on your dream. It's taught from

798
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 3: a very young age, so it becomes a habit, it

799
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 3: becomes who you are, it's how you exist. It's encouraged

800
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 3: from a young age. So all of a sudden, you

801
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 3: retire from your sport, and that is actually not a

802
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 3: quality that is revered in any other phase in your life.

803
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 3: Relationships don't survive selfishness. The employer is not going to

804
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 3: be happy with selfishness. Your family and your team and

805
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 3: your partner goes all right, well, I was happy to

806
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 3: be that person or that team support for you while

807
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: you're an elite athlete, but you're not now. So now

808
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 3: you're going to do the dishes after dinner, or now

809
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 3: you're going to do your laundry, or now you're going

810
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 3: to do X, Y and Z, and so all of

811
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 3: a sudden, the very thing that made you successful is

812
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 3: actually a negative in the next phase of your life.

813
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: And I think a lot really struggle with that.

814
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: That's so bloody insightful and I agree with you, and

815
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: as an elite athlete myself, a tip, what do you

816
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: laughing at? I wish you had a lot more time

817
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: because your bloody interesting jam. Tell people how to find you,

818
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: follow you, connect with you, and have you written the

819
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: book or books.

820
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 3: I've written a kid's book, so.

821
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: Plug away. Tell people where to connect with you, and

822
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 1: buy seventeen of your books.

823
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: The best place for me is I probably solely exist

824
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 3: on Instagram. So Giann Rooney on Instagram. Love to have

825
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: a chat, always up for a chat, and cover a

826
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 3: wide variety of topics, just like we have today.

827
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 1: Craig, will you come back? Absolutely love to bloody oath

828
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: you better because you're a superstar and you're come at

829
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: a very good rate. I will say goodbye a fair

830
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 1: but thank you so much for being on the you project,

831
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: your fun and super interesting. And Tiffany and Cook put

832
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: on some clothes. It's that purple bloody. I don't know

833
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: if that's typ appropriate. Thanks everyone, Bye, Thanks Greg, Thanks

834
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: Deev