WEBVTT - 8. Forgivness ? 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Apoche production. 0:00:10.321 --> 0:00:14.081 The moment Brittany was convicted, Australia's media went into overdrive. 0:00:14.521 --> 0:00:17.640 The court her dwire was motivated by money. 0:00:17.721 --> 0:00:19.320 Why did she really do it? 0:00:19.481 --> 0:00:22.601 Whire will be eligible for parole two thousand and thirty seven. 0:00:22.841 --> 0:00:24.001 Burns was jailed for. 0:00:24.001 --> 0:00:28.241 Thirty Everyone wanted the story. A story like this happens 0:00:28.241 --> 0:00:31.561 in America or on TV shows, But it doesn't happen 0:00:31.561 --> 0:00:34.161 in Australia, and it doesn't happen with a girl from 0:00:34.201 --> 0:00:37.761 Brisbane who kills her granddad in Adelaide. I remember seeing 0:00:37.801 --> 0:00:40.081 this story for the first time on the TV show 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:41.720 Sunday Night with Melissa Doyle. 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:47.560 How did this girl, Brittany turn into a monster? What 0:00:47.601 --> 0:00:48.961 are the signs that I missed? 0:00:49.521 --> 0:00:53.001 She murdered her own grandfather then went back to doing 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:53.640 the dishes. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:54.641 It was my. 0:00:56.441 --> 0:00:57.321 Daughter killed him. 0:00:58.241 --> 0:01:02.881 An Australian horror story. Her family speak exclusively to. 0:01:02.961 --> 0:01:06.161 Sunday Night that anger that's inside. 0:01:06.761 --> 0:01:08.961 Never did I think that she was dark? 0:01:09.401 --> 0:01:14.321 There's lies. We were there together with his killer. Now 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.121 will her partner and crime finally come clean? 0:01:18.441 --> 0:01:19.481 You could have stopped it. 0:01:20.041 --> 0:01:21.121 Do you want to say sorry? 0:01:24.041 --> 0:01:25.840 Why did you really do it? 0:01:26.121 --> 0:01:28.041 Could she just be pure? 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:30.000 Cold, hard evil. 0:01:30.401 --> 0:01:31.081 She'ssichopath. 0:01:31.241 --> 0:01:34.761 Yeah. You talked about the media in our interview and 0:01:34.801 --> 0:01:38.401 you said, you know, there was a storm of media 0:01:38.441 --> 0:01:42.361 attention once, not necessarily when your grandfather first died, but 0:01:42.401 --> 0:01:45.200 once they worked out that your sister was the one 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:50.561 that did it. What was the decision to do the 0:01:50.601 --> 0:01:51.641 Sunday Night program? 0:01:51.881 --> 0:01:55.960 We were sort of bombarded with a lot of media 0:01:56.041 --> 0:01:59.241 and we had certainly a lot of people coming to 0:01:59.361 --> 0:02:04.521 us about wanting to do a story, and everybody's opinion 0:02:04.641 --> 0:02:07.241 was very much of this is what we would like 0:02:07.281 --> 0:02:08.921 to do, you know, are you going to be a 0:02:08.921 --> 0:02:09.361 part of it? 0:02:09.481 --> 0:02:09.960 Essentially? 0:02:10.881 --> 0:02:15.761 And the only I guess producer from any show that 0:02:16.121 --> 0:02:19.120 actually said to us what would you like to get 0:02:19.121 --> 0:02:20.881 out of it and how would you like the story 0:02:20.921 --> 0:02:21.601 to be framed? 0:02:21.921 --> 0:02:24.321 With such empathy. 0:02:25.321 --> 0:02:30.001 Was the team at Sunday Night, particularly the producer Naima, 0:02:30.121 --> 0:02:33.240 and we met up for dinner on the Gold Coast, 0:02:33.321 --> 0:02:35.121 and the way that she sort of spoke to us 0:02:35.161 --> 0:02:38.081 on the phone, it was to me at the beginning, 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:43.481 she genuinely, genuinely sorry, actually just spoke to me as 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.601 a person and rather than like a salacious story and said, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.361 you know, is there anything that we can help throughout 0:02:50.401 --> 0:02:52.841 this process too, is the information you would like to 0:02:52.881 --> 0:02:56.041 find out? You know, we do have those resources. So 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:01.401 that essentially started off the conversation. She was really good. 0:03:01.441 --> 0:03:04.801 There was you know, no pushing or I didn't feel 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.001 like we were on a deadline, even though I'm sure 0:03:07.041 --> 0:03:09.321 they were. And then the next steps was to actually 0:03:09.361 --> 0:03:13.321 meet Melissa Doyle and that sort of solidified it for us. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:17.120 The genuine care that she had that we felt from 0:03:17.201 --> 0:03:21.761 her just made it the right fit. And I'm really 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:23.881 glad we did it because it ended up you know, 0:03:23.921 --> 0:03:26.081 we got to say the story from our perspective and 0:03:26.121 --> 0:03:29.800 how to influenced our family, but also it was very therapeutic. 0:03:31.081 --> 0:03:33.081 By a long after was it that you got to 0:03:33.121 --> 0:03:33.601 talk to them? 0:03:33.641 --> 0:03:36.481 I think it was shortly we filmed, and I think 0:03:36.521 --> 0:03:43.521 it aired pretty quickly, just before sentencing, because I know 0:03:43.641 --> 0:03:46.441 they had to release an update by the time the 0:03:46.481 --> 0:03:49.681 show aired. That sentencing is like in a week or something. 0:03:49.721 --> 0:03:51.201 From memory, So it. 0:03:51.081 --> 0:03:54.401 Was and your mom mel Doyle and your Mum's still close. 0:03:54.241 --> 0:03:58.881 Now, yeah, absolutely, I mean it just goes to show 0:03:59.721 --> 0:04:03.681 what a beautiful person mel is but consistently reaches out 0:04:03.721 --> 0:04:08.321 to my mom and I sends emails at saying, you know, 0:04:08.401 --> 0:04:11.801 Merry Christmas, I hope you're doing well. They still chat 0:04:12.041 --> 0:04:15.561 quite regularly, consistently, keeps checking in, which. 0:04:15.361 --> 0:04:15.961 Is really nice. 0:04:16.001 --> 0:04:19.241 And that story was obviously released I think in twenty sixteen, 0:04:20.921 --> 0:04:24.520 so much that you know, Mum's not one to want 0:04:24.561 --> 0:04:27.640 to do these sort of things, but you know, if 0:04:27.681 --> 0:04:30.601 Mel gives her a call, she'll do what Mel wants 0:04:30.681 --> 0:04:34.041 because of you know, the relationship that that formed. 0:04:34.481 --> 0:04:37.721 We've been talking for a while about doing this podcast. 0:04:39.721 --> 0:04:43.841 You have some reluctance to start with. Let's talk about that. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:45.681 What's what was the reluctance to start with? 0:04:46.361 --> 0:04:49.321 Ah, you know, I think a big part of it is, 0:04:50.361 --> 0:04:53.720 you know, reliving the story. 0:04:55.841 --> 0:04:56.161 You know, I. 0:04:57.801 --> 0:04:59.841 Do quite well at the fact of being able to 0:05:01.281 --> 0:05:04.121 sort of split myself into and sort of think. 0:05:04.081 --> 0:05:07.001 About it has a story that I. 0:05:06.961 --> 0:05:10.041 Would potentially want to watch on a TV show or 0:05:10.041 --> 0:05:14.640 on a podcast, but then at the same time knowing 0:05:14.641 --> 0:05:16.721 that it's my own story, if that makes sense. 0:05:16.841 --> 0:05:19.361 And I think when you're. 0:05:19.401 --> 0:05:24.241 Physically being interviewed and reliving it, it brings up a 0:05:24.281 --> 0:05:29.400 lot of emotion and it is very draining and upsetting 0:05:29.521 --> 0:05:33.481 as anyone could imagine. But I think I was nervous 0:05:34.241 --> 0:05:37.041 to do it as well, because you know, I want 0:05:37.041 --> 0:05:38.241 to do it justice in a way. 0:05:39.361 --> 0:05:41.761 Melissa Doyle is the host of Sunday Night and has 0:05:41.761 --> 0:05:45.161 become really close to the family. She recently made the 0:05:45.201 --> 0:05:48.241 trip up to Queensland to visit Tanya. Years after this 0:05:48.361 --> 0:05:52.241 made the headlines in twenty twenty two, Melissa also wrote 0:05:52.241 --> 0:05:54.320 a book called fifteen Seconds of Brave. 0:05:54.921 --> 0:05:59.641 I actually have a card that Melissa Doyle hand delivered 0:05:59.681 --> 0:06:04.001 to my mum with a copy of her book, which 0:06:04.081 --> 0:06:05.681 was called fifteen second of Brave. 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.280 How do you mean had delivered like she flew up Sydney. 0:06:10.361 --> 0:06:12.521 Yeah, so she actually flew up from Sydney. 0:06:12.721 --> 0:06:17.361 She was doing her book tour and actually hand when 0:06:17.401 --> 0:06:20.641 and saw Mum and hand delivered it to her as 0:06:20.681 --> 0:06:22.321 a big thank you for being a part of the 0:06:22.761 --> 0:06:25.561 being a part of the book. Melissa actually chose Mum 0:06:25.641 --> 0:06:28.521 to be the opening chapter of the book as well, 0:06:28.921 --> 0:06:33.601 so she picked I think it's seven specific stories and 0:06:33.641 --> 0:06:38.401 her whole journalism career that just never left her. But 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.640 it wasn't so much about the story. It was more 0:06:40.681 --> 0:06:48.320 about the amazing attitude that somebody has after all that happens. 0:06:48.641 --> 0:06:52.561 I initially considered writing a book about resilience for personal reasons. 0:06:52.921 --> 0:06:56.521 At the beginning of twenty twenty, my fiftieth birthday lurked 0:06:56.561 --> 0:07:01.121 ominously around the corner. Meanwhile, Sunday night, the public affairs 0:07:01.161 --> 0:07:04.801 program I hosted for Channel seven, had just been canceled, 0:07:05.161 --> 0:07:08.201 and I'd begun to worry my future with seven, the 0:07:08.241 --> 0:07:10.641 station that had been like a home to me for 0:07:10.761 --> 0:07:11.641 twenty five. 0:07:13.121 --> 0:07:13.761 One. 0:07:14.041 --> 0:07:19.001 Tanya. The first time I encountered Tanya Wickwell in twenty seventeen, 0:07:19.641 --> 0:07:22.401 just over a year had passed since her quiet, happy 0:07:22.441 --> 0:07:26.081 life in the Brisbane suburbs ended and a traumatic new 0:07:26.161 --> 0:07:29.721 existence appeared in front of her. It is no exaggeration 0:07:29.881 --> 0:07:32.721 to say she was the most broken person I'd met 0:07:32.721 --> 0:07:36.881 in all my years covering the news. Emotionally, Tanya was 0:07:36.961 --> 0:07:40.281 on her knees, it showed in her tired eyes, and 0:07:40.361 --> 0:07:43.161 she told me with a fragile half smile that she 0:07:43.321 --> 0:07:47.241 was hardly sleeping at night. Knowing in broad brushstrokes what 0:07:47.321 --> 0:07:50.881 Tanya had endured, I dared not ask about the thoughts 0:07:50.881 --> 0:07:54.521 that stalked her in those cursed hours of lonely wakefulness. 0:07:54.841 --> 0:07:57.761 The book is actually named fifteen Seconds of Brave because 0:07:57.801 --> 0:08:02.041 there was a little boy who underwent a lot of 0:08:02.081 --> 0:08:07.401 different treatments and he just said, you know, to get 0:08:07.441 --> 0:08:10.361 through this, I just have to be brave for fifteen seconds. 0:08:10.841 --> 0:08:12.881 And I think it's actually it's a beautiful book. I've 0:08:12.881 --> 0:08:16.241 read it a few times. The inside the card, it says, 0:08:16.921 --> 0:08:19.761 dearest Tanya, thank you so much for agreeing to be 0:08:19.841 --> 0:08:22.001 a part of my book and sharing so much of 0:08:22.041 --> 0:08:24.801 your life and its challenges with me. This feels like 0:08:25.721 --> 0:08:29.321 the most precious and valuable project I have ever had 0:08:29.361 --> 0:08:31.681 the honor of working on, and I have no doubt 0:08:32.161 --> 0:08:35.681 your wise words and bravery will be a lifeline to 0:08:35.841 --> 0:08:38.961 many readers. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. 0:08:39.241 --> 0:08:40.081 Love you always. 0:08:40.401 --> 0:08:40.641 Mel. 0:08:41.361 --> 0:08:44.281 My pain is all on the inside, she points out, 0:08:44.321 --> 0:08:47.681 there are no scars, It's just hurting and no one 0:08:47.721 --> 0:08:52.041 can see it. So Tanya decided to mark each milestone 0:08:52.081 --> 0:08:55.361 of her journey. Her first tattoo was the word Dad 0:08:55.721 --> 0:08:58.281 next to a blue rose on the inside. 0:08:57.801 --> 0:08:58.761 Of her right reason. 0:08:58.921 --> 0:09:01.081 There was many times that. 0:09:02.761 --> 0:09:06.641 Whilst I was filming with Mel, someone looking back at 0:09:06.641 --> 0:09:11.441 me was equally as emotional and crying like me. And 0:09:11.521 --> 0:09:16.201 it just goes to show you, know those stories, you know, 0:09:16.241 --> 0:09:18.361 she's not just doing it for a story like that 0:09:18.521 --> 0:09:22.521 is obviously a part of the job, but she genuinely 0:09:22.561 --> 0:09:24.681 has feelings and his feeling as well. And I remember 0:09:24.721 --> 0:09:30.521 saying to her, you know, you know you're also getting emotional, 0:09:30.561 --> 0:09:32.601 and She's like, the day I stopped getting emotional is 0:09:32.641 --> 0:09:36.721 the day that I resign and I finish up, because 0:09:36.721 --> 0:09:39.321 then it means I'm not being affected by these stories 0:09:39.321 --> 0:09:40.601 anymore and it's not worth it. 0:09:43.041 --> 0:09:46.041 As part of that Sunday night program, there was another 0:09:46.281 --> 0:09:49.521 guest on that show. Yeah, obviously it wasn't filmed at 0:09:49.521 --> 0:09:52.081 the same time. You know, you didn't see each other, No, 0:09:52.561 --> 0:09:55.281 but you would have watched the show. You probably watched 0:09:55.321 --> 0:09:55.681 it live. 0:09:55.761 --> 0:09:56.761 I'm thinking I did. 0:09:56.881 --> 0:10:04.361 Yes, that guest on the show was Shelby, who. 0:10:05.441 --> 0:10:08.161 Was on remand at the time, I believe. 0:10:11.241 --> 0:10:16.001 Talk to me about how you felt about her on Telly. 0:10:17.201 --> 0:10:20.521 They had asked us, when I say they, the producers 0:10:20.521 --> 0:10:23.281 of the show had asked us if we would mind 0:10:23.441 --> 0:10:28.401 if she was involved, And at the time, I thought 0:10:28.401 --> 0:10:31.441 it would be great get her on board because. 0:10:32.801 --> 0:10:37.121 I knew I knew how it would pan out. I 0:10:37.241 --> 0:10:37.801 knew that. 0:10:39.721 --> 0:10:43.161 It would make her look quite guilty and that she 0:10:45.121 --> 0:10:49.081 isn't that remorseful from what I could experience. So that's 0:10:49.121 --> 0:10:52.801 from what I did experience with her. So I sort 0:10:52.841 --> 0:10:55.521 of figured it'll go one of two ways. I'll either 0:10:56.681 --> 0:11:00.081 make her look really good and she redeems herself in 0:11:00.281 --> 0:11:03.521 the eyes of the public, or you'll go the way 0:11:03.521 --> 0:11:07.521 that I think it will go and it will do 0:11:07.641 --> 0:11:10.401 exactly what I think it is and she won't look 0:11:10.441 --> 0:11:14.361 so great at all. And that's the way it did go. 0:11:14.841 --> 0:11:18.281 And so when I actually saw it live on TP 0:11:20.001 --> 0:11:23.281 just filled me with rage. Honestly, who were you with? 0:11:23.641 --> 0:11:25.641 I was with my mum and my grandmother. We were 0:11:25.641 --> 0:11:30.321 watching it live at my house in Karendale, and we 0:11:31.481 --> 0:11:37.081 when that component came on, we just felt that she 0:11:37.121 --> 0:11:40.481 didn't take any responsibility for the part. 0:11:41.881 --> 0:11:45.481 Her mother was pressing her to say. 0:11:45.241 --> 0:11:47.961 Sorry and that's what they want to hear, and you know, 0:11:48.161 --> 0:11:52.481 just do it and sort of move on. And you 0:11:52.521 --> 0:11:56.361 know that you can see the body language throughout that 0:11:56.401 --> 0:12:00.121 segment as well, and yeah, it just it made us 0:12:00.161 --> 0:12:03.401 all very angry. Like I said, we also knew that 0:12:03.401 --> 0:12:06.201 that's probably how it was going to turn out. She 0:12:06.321 --> 0:12:09.641 had the ability to set the record straight for her, 0:12:10.081 --> 0:12:13.761 and you know, there was one particular scene that Mel 0:12:13.921 --> 0:12:17.681 asked her, is you know, why didn't you say anything? 0:12:18.761 --> 0:12:21.921 Why didn't you reach out to Tanya? Why didn't you 0:12:21.961 --> 0:12:27.161 call the police? Why didn't you just do something? And 0:12:27.241 --> 0:12:29.521 she just sort of shrugs it off and goes, well, 0:12:30.321 --> 0:12:31.761 I thought it was a big joke. 0:12:33.281 --> 0:12:36.641 And I think that was the part that just I 0:12:37.201 --> 0:12:45.281 was so angry. I'm just like, that is such a. 0:12:43.961 --> 0:12:50.721 Blazing disregard for the whole scenario that we face, and 0:12:50.961 --> 0:12:54.881 just she was the first person to actually get some 0:12:54.921 --> 0:12:58.521 sort of this, some sort of information from Brittany that 0:12:58.561 --> 0:13:00.521 we could have stopped it in its tracks there and then, 0:13:01.281 --> 0:13:07.681 but instead it escalated way past Shelby's. 0:13:05.361 --> 0:13:08.281 Ryan's right to have an opinion on how Shelby seemed 0:13:08.321 --> 0:13:12.321 on TV the night that it aired in Australia, This story, 0:13:12.401 --> 0:13:15.561 the story of Brittany murdering her granddad, is hard to 0:13:15.721 --> 0:13:19.521 escape for the family, even on holidays overseas, the story 0:13:19.641 --> 0:13:20.841 re is its ugly head. 0:13:23.321 --> 0:13:23.521 Yeah. 0:13:23.601 --> 0:13:27.601 So I went to America for my thirtieth birthday. It 0:13:27.721 --> 0:13:31.481 was a five week trip around the country to celebrate. 0:13:32.521 --> 0:13:35.761 I was actually in. 0:13:34.601 --> 0:13:37.121 Las Vegas at the time, and I was watching one 0:13:37.161 --> 0:13:39.801 of their True Crime channels that they just have on 0:13:40.921 --> 0:13:45.041 consistently twenty four hours a day, and a story popped 0:13:45.081 --> 0:13:49.321 up which seemed quite familiar to me, and it actually 0:13:49.401 --> 0:13:52.881 was a story that they had filmed in their own 0:13:52.921 --> 0:13:56.041 account about the murder of my grandfather. 0:13:58.281 --> 0:14:03.321 Nothing brightens a grandparents' day more than seeing their grandchildren. 0:14:07.321 --> 0:14:09.641 Hi, grandfather, you do. 0:14:10.561 --> 0:14:17.441 In August twenty sixteen, Brittany Dwyer surprises her grandpa, eighty 0:14:17.521 --> 0:14:19.321 one year old Robert Whitwell. 0:14:20.321 --> 0:14:22.041 She's welcomed in with open arms. 0:14:22.601 --> 0:14:25.721 I love it, she too, Grandpa, I haven't seen you 0:14:25.761 --> 0:14:26.321 in ages. 0:14:27.681 --> 0:14:30.841 Her grandfather was so glad to see her, it had 0:14:30.841 --> 0:14:36.641 been so long. The tyranny of distance keeps them apart. 0:14:37.521 --> 0:14:41.881 Robert lives in South Australia, while nineteen year old Brittany 0:14:42.041 --> 0:14:44.081 is from the north in Queensland. 0:14:44.521 --> 0:14:48.761 Brittany and her grandfather had a close relationship even though 0:14:48.801 --> 0:14:50.921 they were twelve hundred miles apart. 0:14:51.441 --> 0:14:53.681 They spoke, they interacted. 0:14:53.721 --> 0:14:58.041 The actors weren't anybody notable, but it was clearly filmed 0:14:58.281 --> 0:15:04.041 with American people in mind to place at roles and 0:15:04.041 --> 0:15:08.641 then a lot of the interview use and the characters 0:15:08.641 --> 0:15:11.801 were Australian and I've chose to block out a lot 0:15:11.841 --> 0:15:16.481 of things. So again, yeah, deep diving into that is 0:15:16.561 --> 0:15:18.481 you know, it's difficult. 0:15:18.441 --> 0:15:21.161 And how hard has that been reliving? You know, we've 0:15:21.441 --> 0:15:24.841 spent a lot of time together talking and asking questions 0:15:24.841 --> 0:15:28.321 that are you know, they're hard because they're going back 0:15:28.321 --> 0:15:31.401 into the depths of Hey, what do you remember about 0:15:31.401 --> 0:15:33.921 this time? How did you feel? Yeah, how has that 0:15:34.001 --> 0:15:36.121 been for your own mental health over the last times 0:15:36.121 --> 0:15:36.721 were recorded? 0:15:36.801 --> 0:15:43.841 Well, it's it's physically exhausting, you know, you just want 0:15:43.841 --> 0:15:47.841 to you know, shortly after our first meeting, I went 0:15:47.881 --> 0:15:50.161 back to the hotel room and I had to just 0:15:50.201 --> 0:15:53.041 like get into bed and like wrap myself up, so 0:15:53.121 --> 0:15:57.001 to speak, because you just feel like you need to 0:15:57.041 --> 0:16:01.641 decompress and absorb everything you've sort of spoken about. 0:16:03.761 --> 0:16:06.361 So, yeah, it's it's hard. I would definitely say it's hard. 0:16:08.361 --> 0:16:11.001 You notice we've spoken to Ryan a lot in this podcast. 0:16:11.121 --> 0:16:14.001 It really is his account of the story. We did 0:16:14.041 --> 0:16:16.881 reach out to others to play a part, including Shelby, 0:16:17.081 --> 0:16:19.561 her lawyers, and other people, but we made the choice, 0:16:19.641 --> 0:16:22.521 given the name of the show, that this was Ryan's 0:16:22.561 --> 0:16:26.241 telling of his story. We did want to talk to Tanya, 0:16:26.521 --> 0:16:29.121 Ryan's mum to see how she felt, and there was 0:16:29.161 --> 0:16:31.521 a bit of nervousness from Ryan about what that might 0:16:31.601 --> 0:16:34.441 look like. We decided that a good way to deal 0:16:34.481 --> 0:16:37.041 with it might be for Ryan to chat with her 0:16:37.441 --> 0:16:40.201 and then, with her permission, us being able to air 0:16:40.241 --> 0:16:41.881 that call in the podcast. 0:16:43.281 --> 0:16:46.601 It's even more exhausting for her so to speak physically 0:16:46.601 --> 0:16:49.361 and mentally draining that once it's done, she sort of 0:16:49.401 --> 0:16:52.721 just goes, Okay, it's done. Now, I don't want to 0:16:52.761 --> 0:16:57.441 do it anymore. So we have limited time to be 0:16:57.481 --> 0:17:00.761 able to do that. I know that it will be 0:17:00.841 --> 0:17:06.360 quite upsetting and hard for her to do, even just 0:17:06.401 --> 0:17:08.881 an informal chat like that. I mean, her and I 0:17:08.921 --> 0:17:13.321 talk about the situation a lot, but I sort of 0:17:13.521 --> 0:17:16.081 allow her to lead the conversation in that and talk 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:17.721 about what she wants to talk about. 0:17:17.521 --> 0:17:18.001 At that time. 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:25.600 I guess, now, you know, talking about everything. Do you 0:17:26.201 --> 0:17:27.561 do you still think about her? Now? 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:27.720 Like? 0:17:27.801 --> 0:17:30.201 How often do you do you think about Oh? 0:17:30.281 --> 0:17:32.921 Every day? Every single day? I think about it. 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.880 Yeah, I mean I'm the same. I can say that 0:17:35.921 --> 0:17:37.801 I think every single day. At some point in the 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.160 day I think about it, and people ask me, you know, 0:17:41.521 --> 0:17:44.400 are you angry or are you are you do forgive 0:17:44.481 --> 0:17:47.321 her and am every day is different? Do you find that? 0:17:49.281 --> 0:17:52.321 No, I'm still at the I remember I was really 0:17:52.360 --> 0:17:57.720 angry in the beginning and been sad, and you go 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.680 through different emotions, but I'm still I still have hopes 0:18:02.721 --> 0:18:05.840 that we will talk one day and she will fill 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.640 in the blanket for me. I mean, she's going to 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.960 be forty when she gets out of jail, so you know, 0:18:13.281 --> 0:18:16.160 that's not really that old, so she's still got, you know, 0:18:17.481 --> 0:18:20.281 a few years to live after that, and I mean 0:18:20.521 --> 0:18:27.121 maybe Grandma won't be around then, or all her grandparents 0:18:27.801 --> 0:18:31.801 and I might be. And I don't know if she'll 0:18:32.241 --> 0:18:35.921 continue to live in Adelaide or if she'll move back 0:18:36.001 --> 0:18:40.401 up here or whatever. But I am hoping that we 0:18:40.481 --> 0:18:41.961 will talk one day. 0:18:43.681 --> 0:18:45.920 I mean that's even depends on if she gets the 0:18:46.120 --> 0:18:48.961 role so that she can get life. So she has 0:18:49.041 --> 0:18:52.321 to apply for the role at that time to see 0:18:52.360 --> 0:18:55.720 if you get out. But I guess after you know, 0:18:55.921 --> 0:18:58.920 you are hopeful that you've talk. Do you think that 0:18:58.961 --> 0:19:00.801 would leave lead into forgiveness? 0:19:03.961 --> 0:19:11.761 Not one business? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know about 0:19:11.761 --> 0:19:14.160 the forgiveness. I don't know if I can ever forget, 0:19:16.241 --> 0:19:19.200 because this is just I didn't ever think that anyone 0:19:19.241 --> 0:19:22.360 could turn my world upside down. You know, I was strong, 0:19:23.001 --> 0:19:27.561 independent woman before, and I didn't think anyone could ever 0:19:27.761 --> 0:19:31.561 flit my world around like it did. But yeah she did. 0:19:31.721 --> 0:19:36.001 And yeah, there's a lot of a lot of hurt 0:19:36.801 --> 0:19:37.761 in the heavy hearts. 0:19:39.561 --> 0:19:42.920 Yeah, and how do you feel about it all? Now? 0:19:46.561 --> 0:19:52.801 I take each day as it comes. You know, you're 0:19:52.801 --> 0:19:56.880 always going to have bad days when it's an anniversary 0:19:57.201 --> 0:20:02.680 or Father's Day or Dad's poppy birthday and things like that. 0:20:03.481 --> 0:20:08.720 But I've learnt to keep myself busy and you know, 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.600 I'll go out that day so the day goes faster 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:16.521 and keep my mind occupied and things like that. You know, 0:20:16.521 --> 0:20:20.480 knowing that Brittany's birthday is coming up soon and things 0:20:20.521 --> 0:20:24.600 like that. It's always on my mind. But then the 0:20:24.681 --> 0:20:28.680 day comes and it's like, you know, it's a little 0:20:28.721 --> 0:20:32.160 bit easier than last year or the year before and 0:20:32.241 --> 0:20:37.161 things like that. If you do learn to cope year 0:20:37.241 --> 0:20:37.841 after year. 0:20:38.201 --> 0:20:42.680 I still find all the anniversary is pretty difficult that 0:20:42.801 --> 0:20:46.360 I try to. Yeah, I stay busy or I'll work 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.160 from home and I try to. I guess, if like 0:20:49.241 --> 0:20:52.721 Pop his birthday and I guess, you know, the day 0:20:52.761 --> 0:20:55.481 he passed away, I'll try to like light a candle 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.041 and make sure that I really think of him. I 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:01.160 think Brittany's birthday is probably actually the hardest for me 0:21:02.521 --> 0:21:06.920 because it's crazy to think, you know, the age that 0:21:07.001 --> 0:21:10.321 she is at now, and she went in and you know, 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.761 she was just shy of like, I think she's just 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.761 her nineteen when she went in and was arrested, and 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.281 now you know, she's only five years behind me, so 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.641 you know, she's getting up there in age, and it's 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:27.840 just crazy that this whole, her whole life is gone. 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.600 And I do wonder what kind of person she is 0:21:32.721 --> 0:21:37.200 now because there's where she is. She toughened up and 0:21:37.321 --> 0:21:43.480 hardened up. And yeah, there's a lot of questions to 0:21:43.521 --> 0:21:44.161 be answered. 0:21:45.561 --> 0:21:50.401 Yeah, definitely, Why did you want to do a podcast? 0:21:50.481 --> 0:21:50.761 Now? 0:21:53.441 --> 0:21:57.441 You know, it's one of those things that will always 0:21:57.481 --> 0:22:00.640 be with me. You know, there's no escaping it. 0:22:04.001 --> 0:22:11.241 I think being able to. 0:22:09.561 --> 0:22:12.361 Talk about the story from a perspective now that I've 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.561 been able to sit. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:15.440 With it for a little while. 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:20.001 You know, it's been a few years now, there has 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.321 been conversations with her, and I see it in an 0:22:23.801 --> 0:22:28.360 indifferent light compared to what it was like when I 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:33.160 first was going through it, so I wanted to I 0:22:33.201 --> 0:22:36.001 wanted to sort of refresh, if that makes sense, and 0:22:37.360 --> 0:22:38.080 do the podcast. 0:22:41.041 --> 0:22:44.160 Brittany Dwyer was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder 0:22:44.201 --> 0:22:47.600 of her proper Robert. She'll serve a minimum of twenty 0:22:47.681 --> 0:22:51.440 years without parole. She'll be eligible for parole in twenty 0:22:51.521 --> 0:22:57.321 thirty six. She'll be thirty nine years old. Bernadette Burns 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.041 was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of Robert. 0:23:03.801 --> 0:23:06.600 She'll serve a minimum thirteen and a half years without 0:23:06.681 --> 0:23:10.400 parole and will be eligible for parole in twenty twenty nine. 0:23:12.281 --> 0:23:16.841 Miss Burns, you also must receive punishment that is fitting 0:23:17.041 --> 0:23:20.961 and deserved. Your level of culpability is, of course, much 0:23:21.041 --> 0:23:25.120 less than that of Missdwire. You did not intend to 0:23:25.120 --> 0:23:30.481 have mister Whitwell killed or to suffer really serious bodily harm. However, 0:23:30.721 --> 0:23:35.001 you engaged with, encouraged, and assisted Misdwire in the robbery, 0:23:35.041 --> 0:23:39.080 contemplating that violence towards and physical harm to an eighty 0:23:39.120 --> 0:23:43.241 one year old man might very well result. Your offending 0:23:43.360 --> 0:23:47.281 was also very serious, although I accept the circumstances place 0:23:47.360 --> 0:23:50.761 it towards the lower end of objective seriousness for the 0:23:50.801 --> 0:23:51.801 crime of murder. 0:23:52.441 --> 0:23:56.880 Shelby Holmes was charged with aggravated serious criminal trespass and 0:23:56.921 --> 0:24:04.281 given a nine month suspended sentence. My Sister the Murderer 0:24:04.441 --> 0:24:08.201 was written in produced by me Jay Walkerdin from pod Shape. 0:24:08.921 --> 0:24:11.561 Extra editing and mixing was done by Jared Young at 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:15.481