1 00:00:03,660 --> 00:00:06,190 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,190 --> 00:00:09,000 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. It looks like interest rates might rise sooner than 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,280 Sean Aylmer: the Reserve Bank previously said they would. Today, I wanted 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,820 Sean Aylmer: to get an idea of which stocks do best in 5 00:00:14,820 --> 00:00:17,700 Sean Aylmer: a rising interest rate environment. And when we want to 6 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:20,619 Sean Aylmer: talk about specific stocks, we go to Matthew Kidman, Principal 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,279 Sean Aylmer: at Centennial Asset Management. Matthew, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:26,110 Matthew Kidman: Hi, Sean. How are you? 9 00:00:27,190 --> 00:00:30,030 Sean Aylmer: I'm well. Now, you and I have worked together over 10 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:33,060 Sean Aylmer: a long time and one thing that you always talk 11 00:00:33,060 --> 00:00:38,500 Sean Aylmer: about is the macro environment when you're thinking about stocks. 12 00:00:38,729 --> 00:00:42,240 Sean Aylmer: So, often we would have discussions and rather than starting, " 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,990 Sean Aylmer: Hey, do you like BHP? Do you like Commonwealth Bank?" You 14 00:00:44,990 --> 00:00:48,529 Sean Aylmer: always start with, " Wow, what's happening in the economy?" Why? 15 00:00:48,979 --> 00:00:52,620 Matthew Kidman: Well, unfortunately because stocks are easy to pick, economies are 16 00:00:52,810 --> 00:00:57,100 Matthew Kidman: virtually impossible. So, I think the macro is always incredibly 17 00:00:57,100 --> 00:01:00,210 Matthew Kidman: important, but on a lot of occasions it's fun to 18 00:01:00,210 --> 00:01:03,680 Matthew Kidman: talk about, but very difficult to pick. But there are 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,620 Matthew Kidman: a couple of things that always, and I've been taught 20 00:01:06,620 --> 00:01:09,610 Matthew Kidman: by a range of people over the years, lucky as 21 00:01:09,610 --> 00:01:12,650 Matthew Kidman: a journalist to talk to some great investors and obviously 22 00:01:12,650 --> 00:01:15,480 Matthew Kidman: work with Geoff Wilson, and lucky enough to sit near 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,100 Matthew Kidman: David Paradice. And they always talked about two things, which 24 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:22,089 Matthew Kidman: was earnings, of course, which is company- specific, and interest 25 00:01:22,090 --> 00:01:24,130 Matthew Kidman: rates and the bond market. Just keep your eyes on 26 00:01:24,130 --> 00:01:26,640 Matthew Kidman: those two things. Now, at the moment, we know what's happened with 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,530 Matthew Kidman: the bond market around the globe. Interest rates are on 28 00:01:29,530 --> 00:01:32,330 Matthew Kidman: the march up after a very long downward period. So, 29 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,420 Matthew Kidman: it's incredibly topical because for two reasons, it's going to 30 00:01:35,420 --> 00:01:38,760 Matthew Kidman: slow the economy, as money becomes more expensive, as you 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,410 Matthew Kidman: know. But it also changes how you value companies because you've 32 00:01:42,450 --> 00:01:44,550 Matthew Kidman: got discount rates on future earnings. And if you've got 33 00:01:44,550 --> 00:01:46,750 Matthew Kidman: to discount them at a higher rate, because money's more 34 00:01:46,750 --> 00:01:49,160 Matthew Kidman: expensive, then that lowers valuations generally. 35 00:01:50,010 --> 00:01:54,730 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And that latter, the discount rate, particularly applying to 36 00:01:54,730 --> 00:01:58,330 Sean Aylmer: defensive areas and things like tech stocks and healthcare, is 37 00:01:58,330 --> 00:02:00,330 Sean Aylmer: that part of the reason they've been hammered recently? 38 00:02:00,890 --> 00:02:03,360 Matthew Kidman: Yeah, I would think initially that was solely the reason. 39 00:02:03,780 --> 00:02:06,400 Matthew Kidman: When the equity market took its cue from the bond 40 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,930 Matthew Kidman: market, probably in the US mid through last year, maybe 41 00:02:09,970 --> 00:02:14,000 Matthew Kidman: in the third quarter, there was a massive rotation that 42 00:02:14,050 --> 00:02:16,740 Matthew Kidman: went on out of those much loved high- growth tech 43 00:02:16,740 --> 00:02:19,690 Matthew Kidman: stocks in particular, there were other areas, but mainly tech 44 00:02:19,690 --> 00:02:25,209 Matthew Kidman: stocks. And they obviously were long- dated growth stocks that 45 00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:28,220 Matthew Kidman: you had to wait many years for the valuation to 46 00:02:28,220 --> 00:02:30,240 Matthew Kidman: actually work, but you could do it if you discounted 47 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,060 Matthew Kidman: at the right rate. When the discount rate changed, they 48 00:02:33,060 --> 00:02:36,030 Matthew Kidman: got sold off aggressively because investors, as I said before, 49 00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:38,570 Matthew Kidman: had to discount at a higher rate. And that's continued 50 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:43,669 Matthew Kidman: fundamentally. In the meantime, other areas have prospered quite well 51 00:02:43,669 --> 00:02:45,710 Matthew Kidman: and Australia's been a beneficiary of that, as we know. So, 52 00:02:45,710 --> 00:02:48,990 Matthew Kidman: at the back end of an economic cycle, you're typically 53 00:02:48,990 --> 00:02:53,730 Matthew Kidman: going to have strong demand, supply falling behind. And what 54 00:02:53,730 --> 00:02:57,060 Matthew Kidman: is happening, that stuff like wages go up, but also 55 00:02:57,180 --> 00:03:00,510 Matthew Kidman: commodity prices. And we know Australia's got great leverage to 56 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,750 Matthew Kidman: both soft and hard commodities, hard being the mining commodities 57 00:03:03,990 --> 00:03:06,110 Matthew Kidman: and soft being agriculture. So, that's been good. 58 00:03:06,889 --> 00:03:11,510 Sean Aylmer: So, what about going forward? Some of the soft agricultural 59 00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:15,869 Sean Aylmer: stocks, Elders, Nufarm, et cetera, versus the harder ones, the South32s, 60 00:03:15,910 --> 00:03:21,470 Sean Aylmer: BHPs, the oil and gas guys, obviously. Have they run 61 00:03:21,610 --> 00:03:23,850 Sean Aylmer: as much as they're going to run? Is there more 62 00:03:23,850 --> 00:03:26,020 Sean Aylmer: room for them to keep improving? What do you think? 63 00:03:26,550 --> 00:03:29,710 Matthew Kidman: Look, you'll get bulls and bears in both, but if 64 00:03:29,710 --> 00:03:31,990 Matthew Kidman: you just stick to your original question about the economic 65 00:03:31,990 --> 00:03:35,130 Matthew Kidman: cycle, we're at a really interesting point. We know that 66 00:03:35,130 --> 00:03:38,640 Matthew Kidman: rates have been on the march upwards. We know that 67 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,290 Matthew Kidman: demand out of the COVID crisis has been strong. We 68 00:03:43,290 --> 00:03:47,870 Matthew Kidman: know there are shortages of both raw materials and labor 69 00:03:47,870 --> 00:03:49,690 Matthew Kidman: around the world. Some of that's to do with the 70 00:03:49,690 --> 00:03:52,330 Matthew Kidman: war in Europe, some of it's to do with people movement 71 00:03:52,330 --> 00:03:55,120 Matthew Kidman: from COVID. A lot of it's to do with issues 72 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,000 Matthew Kidman: in China, around supply with manufactured goods. So, that we 73 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,260 Matthew Kidman: do know. And we know that the Federal Reserve in 74 00:04:02,260 --> 00:04:05,610 Matthew Kidman: the US now is lifting rates. And overnight or on 75 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,290 Matthew Kidman: Thursday their time, they basically confirmed what the market was 76 00:04:09,290 --> 00:04:12,040 Matthew Kidman: thinking, we're no longer going to be doing 25 basis points, the next one's 77 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:14,230 Matthew Kidman: 50 or the next couple. So, they're a bit behind 78 00:04:14,230 --> 00:04:16,680 Matthew Kidman: the curve. So, we know that. I think the real 79 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,130 Matthew Kidman: question now that the market's asking is does the Federal 80 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:22,290 Matthew Kidman: Reserve have to lift rates at such an aggressive rate 81 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:26,710 Matthew Kidman: that it puts the US economy into recession? Now, Australia's 82 00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:29,510 Matthew Kidman: a few months behind, but it doesn't really matter in 83 00:04:29,510 --> 00:04:33,020 Matthew Kidman: market terms. In a lot of ways, it's the US economy 84 00:04:33,020 --> 00:04:36,060 Matthew Kidman: that matters. So, that's the question at the moment and 85 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,960 Matthew Kidman: you read analysts around the US and they're talking about, " 86 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,000 Matthew Kidman: It's a 25 to 30% chance of hard landing as they call it, or 87 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,190 Matthew Kidman: a recession, and a better chance of a soft landing." 88 00:04:46,190 --> 00:04:48,670 Matthew Kidman: What does all that mean? It means if you are 89 00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:50,700 Matthew Kidman: going to go into recession, resources are not going to 90 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:53,240 Matthew Kidman: help you. They're just the last part of the market that moves, the 91 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:57,370 Matthew Kidman: late cycle. If there's a soft landing, that's okay, maybe 92 00:04:57,370 --> 00:04:59,279 Matthew Kidman: resources hold up for a bit longer, but at some 93 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,359 Matthew Kidman: stage you'll have to rotate back into those longer- dated 94 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,440 Matthew Kidman: growth stocks over the next six months maybe. 95 00:05:04,710 --> 00:05:06,750 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Matthew. We'll be back in a minute. 96 00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:16,010 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Matthew Kidman, Principal at Centennial 97 00:05:16,010 --> 00:05:21,670 Sean Aylmer: Asset Management. Okay, so leaving resources and commodities aside, what 98 00:05:21,670 --> 00:05:23,740 Sean Aylmer: sort of sectors, if I want to invest in the 99 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,800 Sean Aylmer: ASX, should benefit from the rising interest rate environment over 100 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:28,770 Sean Aylmer: the next year or two? 101 00:05:29,140 --> 00:05:33,779 Matthew Kidman: Yeah, there's very few that benefit. It's more of a 102 00:05:33,779 --> 00:05:37,140 Matthew Kidman: relative game. Now, you're going to get the occasional one in Australia, 103 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:40,310 Matthew Kidman: like a computer share, originally a share registry company that 104 00:05:40,610 --> 00:05:44,950 Matthew Kidman: they hold cash on behalf of clients in regards to 105 00:05:44,980 --> 00:05:48,380 Matthew Kidman: corporate activity, especially in the Northern Hemisphere. So, if rates 106 00:05:48,380 --> 00:05:50,300 Matthew Kidman: go up, they get a better return on that cash. 107 00:05:50,710 --> 00:05:53,659 Matthew Kidman: We saw recently, Challenger give a bit of an update. 108 00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:56,489 Matthew Kidman: Cash rates going up are good for them, but generally, 109 00:05:56,490 --> 00:05:59,790 Matthew Kidman: there's not many companies. So, what actually does happen though, 110 00:06:00,029 --> 00:06:03,669 Matthew Kidman: is people become defensive as they think economies around the world 111 00:06:03,670 --> 00:06:05,659 Matthew Kidman: are slowing, and we've already seen some downgrades in the 112 00:06:05,660 --> 00:06:09,770 Matthew Kidman: last week. Europe slowing, that's noticeable. It's the US housing 113 00:06:09,770 --> 00:06:13,830 Matthew Kidman: market slowing, that's noticeable. So, what's defensive, as we've seen, Woolworths 114 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:15,700 Matthew Kidman: has come off a bottom. Coles has come off a 115 00:06:15,700 --> 00:06:19,740 Matthew Kidman: bottom, so consumer staples. Telstra's held in there quite well. 116 00:06:20,029 --> 00:06:23,130 Matthew Kidman: So, you're getting these very, very defensive stocks that are 117 00:06:23,130 --> 00:06:26,549 Matthew Kidman: coming to the fore. Really they will go up, their 118 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:28,920 Matthew Kidman: earnings don't change a lot, but their earnings are more 119 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,350 Matthew Kidman: stable. They're able to pass through the price increases. You know demand's 120 00:06:32,060 --> 00:06:33,920 Matthew Kidman: not going to fall away on those. They're going to 121 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,670 Matthew Kidman: keep going, but what ends up happening is they become 122 00:06:36,670 --> 00:06:39,190 Matthew Kidman: really expensive. And they're on their way to doing that, it's been 123 00:06:39,190 --> 00:06:40,410 Matthew Kidman: going for a couple of months. 124 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:45,320 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I mean, you mentioned their ability to pass through price rises. 125 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,290 Sean Aylmer: I think last week Brambles did that in terms of 126 00:06:48,290 --> 00:06:51,150 Sean Aylmer: their CHEP pallets. Endeavor came out and said that the 127 00:06:51,540 --> 00:06:53,480 Sean Aylmer: cost of the pub mill was going to rise, a 128 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,440 Sean Aylmer: disaster, Matthew, a disaster, but they've been able to pass 129 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,049 Sean Aylmer: it through and people are prepared to pay. So, is 130 00:06:59,089 --> 00:07:03,480 Sean Aylmer: it those companies with pricing power that do well, relatively 131 00:07:03,810 --> 00:07:05,140 Sean Aylmer: well actually, is what we've learned today? 132 00:07:05,690 --> 00:07:08,450 Matthew Kidman: Yeah. Look, I think so. As I said, I don't think 133 00:07:08,450 --> 00:07:12,910 Matthew Kidman: anyone does incredibly well. Brambles was a very interesting take 134 00:07:12,910 --> 00:07:15,680 Matthew Kidman: in the sense that the market thought that their pallet 135 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,000 Matthew Kidman: business, there was a range of problems, costs were going 136 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,500 Matthew Kidman: up, but they put prices through and it's stuck by 137 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:22,410 Matthew Kidman: the looks of it, and they gave an outlook. So, that was 138 00:07:22,410 --> 00:07:26,070 Matthew Kidman: interesting. But I think you're right, prices of various goods 139 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,610 Matthew Kidman: in the supermarket have gone up for Endeavor, which is 140 00:07:29,610 --> 00:07:32,820 Matthew Kidman: the alcohol, bottle shop group that's spun out of Woolworth. 141 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:35,970 Matthew Kidman: They've been able to pass prices. So far it hasn't stung. 142 00:07:35,970 --> 00:07:39,130 Matthew Kidman: So, there's a lot of comfort for investors. Yes, they're 143 00:07:39,130 --> 00:07:42,500 Matthew Kidman: passing costs through, so you're probably not going to get 144 00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:45,410 Matthew Kidman: enormous upgrades or anything, but you aren't going to get 145 00:07:45,410 --> 00:07:48,630 Matthew Kidman: downgrades. I think in this environment, what the market is 146 00:07:48,630 --> 00:07:50,900 Matthew Kidman: looking for in the US now and what we will 147 00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:54,270 Matthew Kidman: be looking for maybe in the June 30 results, is 148 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,990 Matthew Kidman: margin compression, because costs will be going up quicker than 149 00:07:57,990 --> 00:08:00,040 Matthew Kidman: prices can be going up at the end goods. 150 00:08:00,510 --> 00:08:04,460 Sean Aylmer: Does this mean some sectors and I'm thinking consumer discretionary, 151 00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:09,620 Sean Aylmer: where there's a lot of competition, they could perform relatively poorly? 152 00:08:10,340 --> 00:08:13,610 Matthew Kidman: Oh, definitely, consumer discretionary on a number of fronts. So, 153 00:08:13,610 --> 00:08:16,490 Matthew Kidman: we go back to the supply chain issues around the 154 00:08:16,490 --> 00:08:18,700 Matthew Kidman: world. You will find, I think as time goes on 155 00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:21,820 Matthew Kidman: and with the latest lockdowns in China that have come 156 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:25,690 Matthew Kidman: on top of what's already a dislocated supply chain, you 157 00:08:25,690 --> 00:08:28,340 Matthew Kidman: are going to get various retailers who depend on goods 158 00:08:28,340 --> 00:08:31,410 Matthew Kidman: coming out of there, not only facing higher interest rates 159 00:08:31,410 --> 00:08:34,319 Matthew Kidman: and consumers being a bit more hesitant for the demand, 160 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,949 Matthew Kidman: but also just not having the right stock. It just 161 00:08:36,950 --> 00:08:39,250 Matthew Kidman: hasn't been able to arrive. So, we would've thought by 162 00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:43,720 Matthew Kidman: now, these issues had self- healed over time, but it's 163 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,590 Matthew Kidman: just taking a lot longer and they just keep getting 164 00:08:46,650 --> 00:08:50,040 Matthew Kidman: disruptions. And as we said, a fair chunk of China 165 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,700 Matthew Kidman: now is under some kind of lockdown, which can't be 166 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:56,000 Matthew Kidman: good. So, I think consumer discretionary, and the market's already 167 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,470 Matthew Kidman: voted with its feet, there's not many consumer discretionary stocks 168 00:08:58,470 --> 00:09:00,280 Matthew Kidman: that have done well over the last few months. And they're 169 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,920 Matthew Kidman: the reasons. Add onto that, if you've got higher rates and 170 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,620 Matthew Kidman: inflation around, consumers are going to be a little bit 171 00:09:05,620 --> 00:09:07,530 Matthew Kidman: more shy to go out and spend like they have 172 00:09:07,530 --> 00:09:09,621 Matthew Kidman: done over since we've rebooted from the COVID crisis. 173 00:09:09,621 --> 00:09:13,410 Sean Aylmer: Okay. What about small caps? I mean, you have a 174 00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:15,679 Sean Aylmer: great interest in small caps, I mean, are there any in 175 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,929 Sean Aylmer: that area that you particularly like or dislike? 176 00:09:18,290 --> 00:09:21,030 Matthew Kidman: Look, there's always a few stocks you like, but small 177 00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:24,050 Matthew Kidman: caps because of the lack of liquidity, they'll be the 178 00:09:24,050 --> 00:09:26,820 Matthew Kidman: beneficiaries of an upmarket. They'll also cop it on the 179 00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:30,270 Matthew Kidman: downside. So, in the small cap market Australia, there's obviously 180 00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:34,890 Matthew Kidman: a large swathe of that market in resources. And if 181 00:09:34,890 --> 00:09:37,100 Matthew Kidman: you look over the last couple of months, they have performed 182 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:39,740 Matthew Kidman: incredibly well. So, you'll find that a lot of money 183 00:09:39,740 --> 00:09:42,030 Matthew Kidman: in small cap land has moved over to that way. 184 00:09:42,260 --> 00:09:46,569 Matthew Kidman: In the meantime, the industrials, the techs, the general market, 185 00:09:46,570 --> 00:09:50,760 Matthew Kidman: the retailers have become friendless. So, if you paint the picture 186 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,459 Matthew Kidman: that maybe the world's slowing, the Fed's got to get 187 00:09:53,460 --> 00:09:57,950 Matthew Kidman: on top of the inflation issue, it will be really 188 00:09:57,950 --> 00:10:00,520 Matthew Kidman: interesting to see whether you can keep playing that long 189 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,469 Matthew Kidman: resources, short the other part, or underweight the remainder of 190 00:10:04,470 --> 00:10:07,360 Matthew Kidman: the small cap market. You can pick your way through. 191 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,540 Matthew Kidman: There's always companies that are doing well. You talk about 192 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,500 Matthew Kidman: discretionary retailers. One that we have liked and have a 193 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:17,640 Matthew Kidman: holding in is Michael Hill Jewellers, they fixed their balance 194 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,920 Matthew Kidman: sheet. They've got strong demand. They're doing very well and 195 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,089 Matthew Kidman: they're incredibly cheap. So, you will get the odd stock 196 00:10:23,090 --> 00:10:26,870 Matthew Kidman: like that. But maybe the bigger retailers, discretionary retailers, you 197 00:10:26,870 --> 00:10:29,829 Matthew Kidman: stay away from. There'll be some tech stocks that you 198 00:10:29,830 --> 00:10:32,949 Matthew Kidman: will pick over, but it's not quite time yet. There's 199 00:10:32,950 --> 00:10:35,340 Matthew Kidman: still too many people trying to get out of those. 200 00:10:35,630 --> 00:10:39,410 Matthew Kidman: It's very, very sensitive. It's a hard market to work 201 00:10:39,410 --> 00:10:41,750 Matthew Kidman: through. And to be honest, we are lucky. As you 202 00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:45,010 Matthew Kidman: say, Sean, I do like small caps generally, but I 203 00:10:45,010 --> 00:10:48,260 Matthew Kidman: think at the moment you want to probably play in 204 00:10:48,260 --> 00:10:50,770 Matthew Kidman: more liquid areas and a bit more defensive. Some of 205 00:10:50,770 --> 00:10:56,030 Matthew Kidman: those bigger healthcare names, Telstra, maybe consumer staples, because at 206 00:10:56,030 --> 00:10:58,929 Matthew Kidman: the moment, it's as much about protecting money as it 207 00:10:58,929 --> 00:11:02,010 Matthew Kidman: is making money. And sometimes, you got to play defense rather 208 00:11:02,010 --> 00:11:02,559 Matthew Kidman: than attack. 209 00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:05,040 Sean Aylmer: Matthew, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 210 00:11:05,330 --> 00:11:05,860 Matthew Kidman: Thanks, Sean. 211 00:11:06,429 --> 00:11:10,070 Sean Aylmer: That was Matthew Kidman, Principal at Centennial Asset Management. This 212 00:11:10,070 --> 00:11:12,140 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us every 213 00:11:12,140 --> 00:11:14,689 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's 214 00:11:14,690 --> 00:11:18,189 Sean Aylmer: most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.