Speaker 1: Helen Baker. Welcome to the mentor absolute privileged to be here.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about it because
Speaker 1: you've got a pretty amazing backstory, Helen Baker, And I
Speaker 1: want to look at you. Unless you're married to a Baker,
Speaker 1: and even if you're not married to a person called
Speaker 1: Baker or your first name Helen, you're of Asian descend
Speaker 1: by the look of things. Where were you born?
Speaker 2: So? I was born in the Philippines in a city
Speaker 2: called the College, which is south of Manila.
Speaker 1: Right and big joint. So tell me the story, Like,
Speaker 1: how did you end up here in Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was orphaned when I was a.
Speaker 1: Baby, which means you went to an orphanage. I presume
Speaker 1: that's which you mean. Yeah, yeah, parents.
Speaker 2: So I was given up for adoption. And the reason
Speaker 2: I was given up was because my mother was dying
Speaker 2: at the time. Oh wow, yeah, father couldn't afford to keep.
Speaker 1: Me sad Like, what was she older or younger?
Speaker 2: I don't know, you don't know, I don't know the backstory.
Speaker 1: But how do you know she was dying?
Speaker 2: Well, the nursery kept records of the orphans, right, and
Speaker 2: they told my adoptive parents that the reason I was
Speaker 2: given up was because she was dying at the time.
Speaker 2: And yeah, my father was a cane field worker, couldn't
Speaker 2: afford to keep me and two of my siblings had
Speaker 2: passed away from malnutrition. So I was one of ten
Speaker 2: children whoah from one mother, from one.
Speaker 1: Mother whoa yeah one as she wasn't well like ten kids. No,
Speaker 1: I don't mean flippantly like that's a heavy load. It
Speaker 1: is heavy on anybody. If you're genetically any way related
Speaker 1: to mom, wouldn't have been a too big a person,
Speaker 1: particularly during that period growing up in the Philippines in
Speaker 1: a poor area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's right.
Speaker 1: And do you ever think to yourself in biologically that
Speaker 1: you'd like to meet your father?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Have you met him? No, he's alive.
Speaker 2: I have absolutely no idea. And I did start that
Speaker 2: search some time ago, but they actually shut down the department. Wow,
Speaker 2: the government department that organized all of those searches. But
Speaker 2: when I was younger, my parents always asked me, do
Speaker 2: I want to go back to the Philippines?
Speaker 1: How old? How old were you when you adopted? In
Speaker 1: other words, did you live thirteen months?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Okay, so you wouldn't have any memory of the place.
Speaker 1: And so I guess your adopted parents, mom and dad
Speaker 1: have told you the story about what they saw when
Speaker 1: they went down went to the particular orphanage. I mean,
Speaker 1: how's it all work? Because I'm always been I mystified
Speaker 1: how this stuff works, Like how does Australian couple, I
Speaker 1: presume the Bakers they've decided We'll talk about them in
Speaker 1: a moment, but they've decided to go to the Philippines
Speaker 1: to adopt a kid. Does that it works where you
Speaker 1: make an application near the Philippines embassy. What's yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so back then, this is in the seventies, so
Speaker 2: I am actually older than I look. So yeah, so
Speaker 2: back in the seventies it was actually a lot easier
Speaker 2: to adopt than it is now. And they did it
Speaker 2: through an organization called Asian And how they did it
Speaker 2: was they literally wrote to the orphanage and lots of
Speaker 2: back and forth. Back then it was paper. Everything was
Speaker 2: paper based, so it took a year for the adoption
Speaker 2: to come through. But my dad was also working over
Speaker 2: in the Philippines with Apex. Do you remember Apex like
Speaker 2: Rotary And he was working on a project over in
Speaker 2: the Philippines Rebuilding Orphanages project. Yeah, yeah, correct, and then
Speaker 2: he he saw the devastation of you know, these children,
Speaker 2: what it was like in the orphanages, and then wrote
Speaker 2: back to my mum and said, can we adopt one
Speaker 2: of these children? Oh?
Speaker 1: That's cool? Did they have Do they have kids of
Speaker 1: their own at the time?
Speaker 2: Yes, So I've got an older brother and an older
Speaker 2: sister who looks nothing like me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine if they were born to miss
Speaker 1: from Missus Baker exactly in Australia. And so your father
Speaker 1: and it was sort of like your father's idea as
Speaker 1: a result of seeing the conditions that orphans have lived
Speaker 1: under in these environments. And how does that make you
Speaker 1: feel when you hear that story? I mean, and by
Speaker 1: the way, when did they first tell you that story?
Speaker 1: I mean we were a little kid, boy.
Speaker 2: I think I always knew. I mean I was very
Speaker 2: different and I was.
Speaker 1: You knew, but you hadn't been told. How does it work?
Speaker 2: I mean I must have been told when I was
Speaker 2: from a young age. I mean I don't remember the
Speaker 2: specific day when Mum and Dad sat me down and said,
Speaker 2: by the way, you adopted. I think it was just
Speaker 2: always it was they must have told me from a
Speaker 2: very young age, and I always new but it was
Speaker 2: very obvious because I was the youngly Asian in school.
Speaker 1: Yes, well the only Asian.
Speaker 2: Well. I was plucked out of this orphanage and then
Speaker 2: placed into a rural farming community land. Yeah, up in
Speaker 2: warrigal And, Gippsland. And back then it was yeah, I
Speaker 2: was the only Asian in school. And how was that terrible?
Speaker 1: We're going back into the seven.
Speaker 2: We going back to seventy years and just bear in
Speaker 2: mind as well that it was shortly after the White
Speaker 2: Australian Policy had been abolished, especially two years after, so.
Speaker 1: We forget about the White Australian policy too. Racism was rife, yes,
Speaker 1: probably more so in the regionally.
Speaker 2: In the regional areas it was rife. I mean I
Speaker 2: was spat on in the street, really told to go
Speaker 2: back to where I came from. I was the only
Speaker 2: Asian in my school.
Speaker 1: It was because Vietnam was on at the time too,
Speaker 1: so a lot of Australians would have been filthy on that,
Speaker 1: on someone who might look like their.
Speaker 2: Vietnamese everyone and only then I don't think they could
Speaker 2: really distinguish between the different countries as well.
Speaker 1: Totally they were particular. Exactly kid from a kid, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: Although you would, I'll guarantee you can pick the difference
Speaker 1: between most of the Asian nations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd like to think that I'm pretty savvy about that,
Speaker 2: But back then, kids particularly had no idea, So of
Speaker 2: course I got called everything from people thought I was
Speaker 2: Aboriginal through to Chinese, Japanese, you name it. I was
Speaker 2: every possible thing.
Speaker 1: What's that like for a kid? I mean, I grew
Speaker 1: up in a certain part of Sydney where in those
Speaker 1: days a lot of the kids who Australia like in
Speaker 1: Irish English derivation, and I had Greek surname, Greek food,
Speaker 1: you know, blah blah, different sort of things going on
Speaker 1: in my life. And I experienced a bit of it,
Speaker 1: not too much, but like enough to be aware of it.
Speaker 1: But I can't imagine being, say, in your case, by
Speaker 1: the way, i'd left score at that stage when you
Speaker 1: were growing up. But I can't imagine being someone who
Speaker 1: was fully Asian fully and Asians looked totally different to Europeans.
Speaker 1: To Europeans sort of a little bit look like the
Speaker 1: English and the Irish et cetera. Where difference is our
Speaker 1: skin's a bit darker, and it is definitely different, but
Speaker 1: you're you would have been completely different.
Speaker 2: I stood out like I saw So how.
Speaker 1: Did you feel at the time, I mean, do you
Speaker 1: remember feelings of despair? Perhaps?
Speaker 2: Oh well? And truly yeah, absolutely, no, I was. It
Speaker 2: was such a double edged sword because I was incredibly
Speaker 2: grateful for the opportunities that I had.
Speaker 1: So you aware of gratefulness, You're aware of.
Speaker 2: How you were for sure, absolutely. I mean it was
Speaker 2: very obvious that I had come from dire circumstances, so
Speaker 2: I was grateful that. And I think this was drummed
Speaker 2: in to me from a young age from my dad
Speaker 2: as well, that there's there's always someone worse out there
Speaker 2: than yourself. I was pretty fortunate for me, That's the truth, absolutely,
Speaker 2: But at the same time it was it was a
Speaker 2: real struggle because I didn't know who I was, how
Speaker 2: to fit in. I just wanted to be to be white,
Speaker 2: to be honest, because I was just teased all the
Speaker 2: time every day.
Speaker 1: What do you think it is, Allen? Do you think
Speaker 1: it's the color of your skin, or the style of
Speaker 1: your hair, or the color of your eyes? What is
Speaker 1: it that sort of was a thing that freaked people
Speaker 1: out most.
Speaker 2: I think it was color of skin. Yeah, yeah. And
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example of something that was quite
Speaker 2: devastating for me. When I was in high school. I
Speaker 2: was the only actually there was one other Asian in
Speaker 2: high school as well, and we both knew each other
Speaker 2: and the struggles that we both faced. And there was
Speaker 2: a school play that we auditioned for. And I remember
Speaker 2: going along and auditioning for this school play, and you
Speaker 2: don't have it back then. They put the paper up
Speaker 2: on the board and you'd go afterwards and see whether
Speaker 2: you got a parsh. And I went to see and
Speaker 2: I got this part, and I thought, oh wow, it's
Speaker 2: awesome this part in the school play. And then I
Speaker 2: found out later that this other Asian also got a pash.
Speaker 2: And we were both playing indigenous.
Speaker 1: Kids, Australian indigenous kids, yes, as opposed to Filipino indigenous.
Speaker 2: Kids, because just because we had brown skin. Wow. So
Speaker 2: they decide that's just an example, one very small example.
Speaker 1: And how did you did? We did your heart slump?
Speaker 2: Of course?
Speaker 1: Of course, I guess you're not going to get the
Speaker 1: nativities seen as Mary at Christmas time or something like that.
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying, like, you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: don't she could have been asing. I don't think she was.
Speaker 1: But I mean, by you today, that wouldn't be the case.
Speaker 1: You could get a Nativity scene Mary today because it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter because you're just you're just playing a
Speaker 1: part as opposed to having too.
Speaker 2: But back then it was because you've got brown skin,
Speaker 2: therefore you should be in a in a role that
Speaker 2: is aboriginal, according to them.
Speaker 1: When I went to school, we had one kid in
Speaker 1: the whole school who was Chinese kid. I member, your
Speaker 1: name is Michael Chinui and god, who's an unbelievable athlete,
Speaker 1: guy like he could do anything. He was a bit
Speaker 1: younger than me. But it's funny, nobody my school is
Speaker 1: such a mix of kids Lebanese, Greeks, Italians, and like
Speaker 1: every mix you can imagine different regional areas, and you know,
Speaker 1: because in the West and but this kid never had
Speaker 1: a problem, like nobody really said much like said negative
Speaker 1: things about him. I remember I held him in awe
Speaker 1: because of this his unbelieved athleticism. Is an incredible, incredible
Speaker 1: athlete he was, and racism sort of did exist I'm
Speaker 1: going back, you know, ten years before you're talking about
Speaker 1: in the sixties. I was at school sixties to late sixties.
Speaker 1: I left school seventy three, so that was actually last
Speaker 1: year was my fiftieth anniversary doing a year twelve. I
Speaker 1: can't believe it can like fifty years animersal My god
Speaker 1: only died when I realized and I went and saw
Speaker 1: all my old schoolmates who were I was young for
Speaker 1: my years and younger than all other kids. And I
Speaker 1: got a shock when I wasn't seen he's got fifty
Speaker 1: And I got a shock when I went and saw them.
Speaker 1: But we But I didn't realize how very Australian my
Speaker 1: school was until I saw these guys out at Rusby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're someone like you growing up in your area.
Speaker 1: I know what it did to me being one of
Speaker 1: the wogs. Was it actually made me try harder? Effect
Speaker 1: did it have on you as a student.
Speaker 2: As a student, No, it didn't. I was with the opposite.
Speaker 2: I was quite rebellious, said fuck them, Yeah, I was
Speaker 2: very What does that mean?
Speaker 1: What did you to cut your hair gray, fingernails, your
Speaker 1: hair purple and green?
Speaker 2: I don't know, no, I just I think I acted
Speaker 2: out just because well there are a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of reasons, but I think it stemmed from conversations
Speaker 2: that I would have with my dad. So my dad
Speaker 2: was very much my role model growing up, and he
Speaker 2: would always say, don't give a shit about the color
Speaker 2: of your skin, like, it's not about what you look like,
Speaker 2: it's about what's inside that counts. So often, yeah, it
Speaker 2: would just be a few kind of mentality. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I was really I was really rebellious and did.
Speaker 1: Lots of naughty things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of naughty things. I was naughty. I was
Speaker 2: really naughty.
Speaker 1: Naughty as a young girl or naughty as a teenager,
Speaker 1: like naughty and like that.
Speaker 2: Well no, I no, no, I didn't do no, not
Speaker 2: that naughty. I didn't do drugs and all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. But I was just I was rebellious in
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of.
Speaker 1: Ways, just in being cheeking class.
Speaker 2: Just being cheeky, doing things that pushed the boundaries a lot,
Speaker 2: you know. I just I think I was a risk
Speaker 2: taker as well. So I literally just I don't know,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: Did you hang out with the bad kids? No, not really,
Speaker 1: not as a lonely kid, like in terms of friends,
Speaker 1: I was had.
Speaker 2: One best friend, Tiffany. She was amazing and her family
Speaker 2: were incredibly supportive of me. But yeah, I think I
Speaker 2: was just I didn't know who I wanted to be.
Speaker 2: I was very much you didn't become anywhere. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: really lacked identity.
Speaker 1: Because I'm sitting here talking to you, and obviously your
Speaker 1: skin colors different anyone else in the room. There's one, two, three, four,
Speaker 1: five or six people sitting in this room, and but
Speaker 1: all different nationalities. But look at it to me, and
Speaker 1: and and I guess like today all kids, I guess
Speaker 1: like and me at the time, so we all want
Speaker 1: to belong somewhere. But when you don't really know where
Speaker 1: you belong, like I was a half cast because my
Speaker 1: mum was Irish, but I was both like I didn't
Speaker 1: know whether I belong on this side or the other side.
Speaker 1: Like and it was a bit a little bit confusing
Speaker 1: to me. You know, obviously okay with it these days
Speaker 1: because normal, but with you, if you don't know where
Speaker 1: you belong, then you For me, I was a bit
Speaker 1: mischievous too as a result on belonging. I thought, then, okay,
Speaker 1: stuff that I'm not going to do what everyone is
Speaker 1: telling me. To do, but it did drive me to
Speaker 1: try harder. I did. I did try to be really
Speaker 1: competitive because I was determined not let anyone be or anything.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've always been competitive and I did a
Speaker 2: lot of sport. But I also think it comes down
Speaker 2: to my mother was very controlling, so I've always had authority.
Speaker 2: So she let me just think of an example of
Speaker 2: where she was really controlling. So I would have very.
Speaker 1: Strict, very strict like is that does that mean though
Speaker 1: strict about don't wear that short dress? Were correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so even going to the stroll. So in primary school,
Speaker 2: for example, we didn't have a school uniform, and yet
Speaker 2: Mum made us wear school shoes as though wearing the
Speaker 2: school school uniform. So I would rebel against that. So
Speaker 2: any not only that, you know, I played the piano,
Speaker 2: she would come along to their piano lessons and take notes.
Speaker 2: And then she didn't play the pian herself, and then
Speaker 2: she would instruct me as though she was my piano teacher.
Speaker 2: She wouldn't. She didn't even know how to swim, and
Speaker 2: she come along to the swimming lessons and walk alongside
Speaker 2: the pool, so she was the swimming instructor. And there
Speaker 2: are lots of examples like that, but she was I
Speaker 2: did not get along with my mother very well at all.
Speaker 1: But what do you learn from that as an adult?
Speaker 1: What do you think you learned and what did you
Speaker 1: take out of that social development from what you saw
Speaker 1: with the mother into your adult life and into business.
Speaker 1: For example, So I.
Speaker 2: Neglected to say that my mother was an alcoholic as well.
Speaker 2: That doesn't so I would go to school and face
Speaker 2: bullying and abuse at school, then come home and my
Speaker 2: mother was in her pajamas, depressed, drinking wine. So I
Speaker 2: didn't know what to expect when I got home as well.
Speaker 2: So to answer your question around you know, what did
Speaker 2: that teach me? It would It meant that I would
Speaker 2: surround myself with people who are cheerleaders so very much,
Speaker 2: so I would go my dad was my role model.
Speaker 2: He would leave notes under my pillow, for example, quotes
Speaker 2: that would pick me up. My best friend's mother was
Speaker 2: amazing her family, so I think I took that into
Speaker 2: my career as well. Is to really surround yourself with
Speaker 2: people who who you could trust and who would be
Speaker 2: cheering you on the side.
Speaker 1: In terms of positivity. You're talking about.
Speaker 2: Positivity, but also just yeah, people who would it would
Speaker 2: be your advocates who'd really be there for you. Just
Speaker 2: I've got you back.
Speaker 1: So you've left school? Did you leave school on year twelve?
Speaker 2: Yeap?
Speaker 1: And what did you do off that?
Speaker 2: So? I went to UNI down in Tasmania. I wanted
Speaker 2: to get away from countrytown Victoria and applied everywhere, and
Speaker 2: there just happened to be a big c between mainland exactly,
Speaker 2: that's straight. And I just thought, oh great, this is
Speaker 2: as far as a way possible I can get from
Speaker 2: my parents from.
Speaker 1: You know, ogle from the situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And that's I think that's what I did too.
Speaker 2: I escaped a lot from those situations. And yeah. So
Speaker 2: we went down there and did arts psychology and had
Speaker 2: a great time, absolutely loved it, and then came back
Speaker 2: to the mainland. Didn't know what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2: It was a really tough environment here. So we're talking nineties,
Speaker 2: so it was a recession time, so jobs weren't they
Speaker 2: went that.
Speaker 1: There was a recession the early nineties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I didn't know what to do. And
Speaker 2: I ended up doing a legal administrative course kind of
Speaker 2: like a paralegal course. And I did that and then
Speaker 2: I ended up working at law firm called Filips Fox,
Speaker 2: which in our DLA piper.
Speaker 1: Well pretty big firm.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, So got a job there. I start,
Speaker 2: I started arts admin and then got into a paralegal
Speaker 2: intellectual property paralegal position, and that was yeah, it was
Speaker 2: patents and copyright, trademarks, yeah, trademarks, Pyton.
Speaker 1: Copyright and then we're too from there to Arthur Anderson.
Speaker 2: Arthur the demise of I think they were involved in
Speaker 2: the in Ron right situation.
Speaker 1: Because there was enough the young and and Arthur innoson
Speaker 1: but they both don't exist anymore. Once Gordon it's the
Speaker 1: young but now he was, but I never knew what
Speaker 1: happened Arthur Anderson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they essentially with the demise of Enron went.
Speaker 1: Down, right, that were the orders correct, Yeah, famous Enron case,
Speaker 1: one of the greatest collapses in the world of corporate history.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah. So I was working at Arthur Anderson in
Speaker 2: their legal yeah before yeah, before their demise, and then
Speaker 2: when overseas, worked overseas for some law firms over there,
Speaker 2: came back and got into recruitment, into legal recruitment and
Speaker 2: from there, so from there then went out on my
Speaker 2: own and had legal recruitment company, recruiting lawyers for law
Speaker 2: firms and for in house and then yeah, set up
Speaker 2: my own business, had that for ten years, and then
Speaker 2: worked at Deloitte and then post Aloit post Deloitte. Quit
Speaker 2: my job at Deloitte because I always wanted to give
Speaker 2: back to young people like myself. So it's sort of
Speaker 2: come full circle. And I was volunteering at the time
Speaker 2: for an organization called Adopt Change. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you've heard of it before, but founded by Debliefines. What's
Speaker 2: your same Jackman's. Yeah, So she founded this amazing Adopt
Speaker 2: Change organization because she was struggling to adopt children here
Speaker 2: in Australia, so.
Speaker 1: She became really hard.
Speaker 2: It was really tough and it still is tough. So
Speaker 2: the laws, Yes, it's really difficult to adopt now, but
Speaker 2: back then when I was adopted, it was easy. It
Speaker 2: took a year. Now on average it's close to seven
Speaker 2: years or so.
Speaker 1: If you're like you exactly by.
Speaker 2: Which time you've aged out of the process.
Speaker 1: Correct you, So you're too old? Yeah, well they'll think
Speaker 1: you're too old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot more barriers so yeah. So yeah, So
Speaker 2: I was volunteering at the time that I was at Delouche,
Speaker 2: and I realized that I just can't. I can't give
Speaker 2: back in a firm like Deloit, and I really wanted
Speaker 2: to help kids like myself, so those who were really disadvantaged.
Speaker 2: So I thought, I'm going to quit and go out
Speaker 2: and create an organization that inspires young kids, helps young
Speaker 2: kids in.
Speaker 1: Some way, shape or form, and what's that called.
Speaker 2: So I created a company called Spill the Beans, which
Speaker 2: was kind of like hey, Ted talks for kids by kids.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's cool, yeah, which was great.
Speaker 2: So I booked out in the Melbourne Conventions Center, set
Speaker 2: up the company, booked out Melbourne Convention Center for six
Speaker 2: hundred people, started selling tickets, had these great kids ready
Speaker 2: to talk, and then COVID hit oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll never forget that time when the event managed a
Speaker 2: called up and said we.
Speaker 1: Have to specially kids can't bring them.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. So so then I thought, what do I
Speaker 2: do now? So I had to pivot very quickly into
Speaker 2: an online offering.
Speaker 1: But for the same thing, same deal, similar So.
Speaker 2: I called it pitch Fest. It was actually young kids
Speaker 2: pitching their business and charity ideas to entrepreneurs. So like
Speaker 2: a mini shark tank, not for investment, for advice. Okay,
Speaker 2: so yeah, they'd pitched their ideas and she was It
Speaker 2: was literally like a mini shark tank for kids. And
Speaker 2: we had amazing yeah yeah exactly. So I had the
Speaker 2: co founder of Netflix on. We had you know, one
Speaker 2: of the sharks from Shark Tank USA, Matt Higgins. We
Speaker 2: had named miss Simpson. We should have had you on, Mark.
Speaker 2: We had all these amazing entrepreneurs on the show and
Speaker 2: created this this production. But it was costing me a
Speaker 2: lot of money to produce.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in which weren't making money.
Speaker 2: I wasn't making money exactly. So then I thought, how
Speaker 2: do I turn this into something that can make money from.
Speaker 1: A proper business model?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So I turned it into an educational resource
Speaker 2: and then started teaching it in school. So schools were
Speaker 2: paying me to facilitate these ideation workshops with schools, teaching
Speaker 2: kids how to bring their ideas.
Speaker 1: To life at a school at schoolchools.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So did you have to do a deal with your
Speaker 1: Victorian but you have to deal with the Victorian government, No,
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: So the schools that I approached just said we'll pay
Speaker 2: you to come in and do these ideation workshops with
Speaker 2: the kids and help them bring their ideas to life.
Speaker 1: So like the work that you do in the schools
Speaker 1: is helping kids think about an idea for business and
Speaker 1: then or is it about they've already got an idea
Speaker 1: for business, and how do I bring this life by
Speaker 1: teaching them how to perhaps pitch the best right both.
Speaker 2: So bringing thinking of ideas based on problems that they
Speaker 2: were trying to solve, and then going through the ideation
Speaker 2: process of right where to Now, how do we validate
Speaker 2: these ideas and then how do we execute on those
Speaker 2: ideas and sort of entrepreneurship in the name of the business.
Speaker 2: So it's still spill the beans now and now, So
Speaker 2: that's kind of morphed into solve it.
Speaker 1: So which is your new business?
Speaker 2: Yes? Correct?
Speaker 1: And that's now just quickly summarize solve it for me
Speaker 1: because and then I want to go to the bring
Speaker 1: and when I come back, I want to talk about
Speaker 1: solve it. Yeah, I can't say it, probably because I've
Speaker 1: seen the spelling of it as x l o V
Speaker 1: I t o l V was close.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like think of xerox zero.
Speaker 1: So what is resolved? Just take me through to the
Speaker 1: final conclusion, where soolved is now obviously is going to
Speaker 1: have more iterations as you go on, But where Resolveds
Speaker 1: sit right now in terms of you're offering it's out.
Speaker 2: In the market now. Yeah, so we're teaching at universities.
Speaker 1: So you've gone beyond schools.
Speaker 2: Beyond schools universities. It's of course companies are paying for it.
Speaker 2: I'll talk to you in more detail about it, but
Speaker 2: essentially what it is is a crowdsourcing app for student
Speaker 2: innovation helping companies to solve social problems.
Speaker 1: Stayed again, So it's a crowd stay it against.
Speaker 2: So it's an app companies with students.
Speaker 1: So it's a marketplace in that regard. So you've got
Speaker 1: students over here and you've got corporations over here, correct,
Speaker 1: and what are the students putting onto the marketplace?
Speaker 2: So companies create challenges on the app that are aligned
Speaker 2: to the United Nations Sustainable Development goals in relation to
Speaker 2: real problems that they're facing, and then students pitch their ideas,
Speaker 2: then win the opportunity to meet the executives of those
Speaker 2: companies and potentially built up their ideas with the companies.
Speaker 1: So they picture there idea about how to solve the problem.
Speaker 1: So BHP put a question up there about whatever, is
Speaker 1: there a mandate as to what as to what areas?
Speaker 1: Is it mandated as to what areas can be put
Speaker 1: on there for.
Speaker 2: Solving Yes, so they have to be aligned to the
Speaker 2: United Nations. What is that though, sdbs SG So you
Speaker 2: know the SDGs, No, I don't, Okay, So the STGs,
Speaker 2: the United Nations have put out basically a blueprint for
Speaker 2: the future around They've set seventeen goals that they want
Speaker 2: to achieve by twenty thirty and it might be poverty,
Speaker 2: no poverty, zero hunger, gender equality like we have you know,
Speaker 2: equal amount of men and women in the workforce, or
Speaker 2: just there are seventeen of these goals, climate action for example.
Speaker 2: So I'll give an example of one of the challenges
Speaker 2: is on the platform. So Village Cinemas is on the platform.
Speaker 2: For example, They've created a challenge that relates to getting
Speaker 2: more people through the cinemas, helping to create more mental
Speaker 2: health and wellbeing for people. Because during COVID it was
Speaker 2: all lockdown and everyone was using streaming platforms. So they've
Speaker 2: put a challenge on their in relation to SDG nine,
Speaker 2: which is industry and innovation, how do we attract more
Speaker 2: people through the cinemas? So go on and solve it.
Speaker 1: And kids and the challenge. Now, well, I'm going to
Speaker 1: get come straight back. But when I come back, I
Speaker 1: want to talk to you, talk to you about sort of a
Speaker 1: bit more, get into the weeds of how it all works,
Speaker 1: if you don't mind. I'm back from the break and
Speaker 1: I'm here with Vegan and we are talking about resolve it.
Speaker 1: I can't even bloody pronounce it, but as I've got
Speaker 1: to hear in front of me, x O, l V
Speaker 1: I T, and I presume it's resolve it dot com
Speaker 1: dot or just solve it dot io, dot I io
Speaker 1: what I.
Speaker 2: Stand for now, it's just a fancy tech.
Speaker 1: It's just but as new tech domain, is it?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay? X O, l V I T, dot io. And
Speaker 1: you know, in my simple terms, it's a marketplace between
Speaker 1: let's call it corporations who are trying to have been
Speaker 1: adopting the mandates of the Sustainable Development Goals goals thank you,
Speaker 1: which is sort of like the mandate coming out of
Speaker 1: the United Nations. And I think there's did you say
Speaker 1: seventeen of the seventeen of these seven en goals, so
Speaker 1: they can pick any goal they want, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: so they can pick numerous goals. They put the challenge up,
Speaker 1: or they put the problem up, or the challenge up
Speaker 1: onto the onto your website. Then kids, I'll presume anywhere.
Speaker 2: In the world university students, but anywhere in the world.
Speaker 1: Just aus trailer, just Astralia the moment, but Australian university students.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't really matter with it in year one
Speaker 1: or year it doesn't matter if it's it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: the courses. Does anyone any goods? And they then put
Speaker 1: up suggestion how that this particular thing can be met,
Speaker 1: this goal can be met, and this challenge can be solved.
Speaker 1: But what actually happens when let's say, you know, my
Speaker 1: grandson puts it up. Yep, he's not at university at
Speaker 1: the moment, he's too young, but thetume is a university.
Speaker 1: He puts up one of these solutions. What actually happens,
Speaker 1: does let's call it village road shows put up the
Speaker 1: issue as you suggested, Does the CEO get him, does
Speaker 1: he get a mentor.
Speaker 2: What does he get so he gets to our ideation
Speaker 2: workshop with the company with the executives from the company,
Speaker 2: so whoever they choose to bring into that ideation workshop.
Speaker 2: So we did one recently with Microsoft, so Microsoft is
Speaker 2: on the platform. They created an AI challenge. An NBA
Speaker 2: student from Melbourne Business School pitch their challenge won that opportunity.
Speaker 2: We had a group of executives from Microsoft and Melbourne
Speaker 2: Business School attended to our ideation workshop to help build
Speaker 2: out this idea. You know, what would it look like,
Speaker 2: so to ideate around potentially bringing that to life.
Speaker 1: So an NBA student unfair because he's probably already got
Speaker 1: a degree or she's got a degree, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: So the NBA it's great anyway. So the NBA students,
Speaker 1: now incentivized to do something, gets an opportunity to meet
Speaker 1: up with these with Microsoft execs. Does Microsoft then say,
Speaker 1: in terms of building this AI model out which involves software,
Speaker 1: does Microsoft lend them any resources?
Speaker 2: So it's really just an idea at the moment. It's
Speaker 2: just this is what it could look like. This, maybe
Speaker 2: we build it out, maybe we take certain parts of
Speaker 2: this and work on this in the future. But it's
Speaker 2: not you know, we're not taking your IP for example, okay,
Speaker 2: stealing your IP to go and build out your product specifically,
Speaker 2: So it's really just an opportunity to more. It's more
Speaker 2: about the connection from the student and the company connecting,
Speaker 2: coming together, and that's what the students want. So we're
Speaker 2: solving that problem for the students and then for the companies,
Speaker 2: we're helping them to raise brand awareness with amazing students
Speaker 2: across universities.
Speaker 1: To companies do this out of their corporations, do this
Speaker 1: out of their obligation to do community stuff like things
Speaker 1: for communities. Is it part of it?
Speaker 2: It's doing good in the world for them, And maybe
Speaker 2: you want to talk about this after the break, but
Speaker 2: there are lots of reasons why companies want to do this.
Speaker 2: The first is that they're trying to deal with the
Speaker 2: problem that they're losing graduates. So the graduate reneg rates
Speaker 2: are at the highest they've ever been right now. So
Speaker 2: graduates are applying for positions at many companies, they're getting
Speaker 2: offered positions, but then they're renegging on their offers.
Speaker 1: But doing what that after.
Speaker 2: The reneq going to one company, So twenty applications out there,
Speaker 2: they'll choose one offer to go with one company. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so they're renegging on their office and it's the highest
Speaker 2: that it's ever been. It's the twenty five percent, and
Speaker 2: that's costing companies at the moment like two point six
Speaker 2: million per year for example the other So that's that's
Speaker 2: solving a problem for them because they're trying to attract
Speaker 2: but they're not attracting them because they're going elsewhere. And
Speaker 2: the reason that they're not attracting them is because they're
Speaker 2: not necessarily aligned with the student's social values. So in
Speaker 2: our sort of customer discovery that we did for Zolvers,
Speaker 2: we found that a lot of students will leave or
Speaker 2: graduates will leave a position, and gen Z in particular,
Speaker 2: will leave a position within a couple of years if
Speaker 2: they're not socially aligned with the company. So if they
Speaker 2: don't feel that your company is making a societal impact,
Speaker 2: see you later, and they will lose their workforce.
Speaker 1: What do you mean? But what do they mean by
Speaker 1: when you did you research? What does it mean that
Speaker 1: for a company to be socially aligned with that Z person?
Speaker 1: For example, what.
Speaker 2: If they feel like you're not contributing to the community,
Speaker 2: for example, doing volunteer work in some way, or you
Speaker 2: don't have a you're not donating money to foundations, or
Speaker 2: if you don't have a carbon footprint, some kind of
Speaker 2: EESG strategy across a number of social issues. If you
Speaker 2: don't have that in place in your policies, then gensit
Speaker 2: are not interested in you. Because they really care about
Speaker 2: the world. They really care about gender equality, they care
Speaker 2: about diversity inclusion, they care about the climate. There's so
Speaker 2: many things. And if your company is not aligned socially
Speaker 2: with these values, then they're going to choose another company
Speaker 2: over here that is more attractive for them. So that's
Speaker 2: a problem that they're currently facing.
Speaker 1: So when you pick the United Nations seventeen let's call
Speaker 1: it chapters, that they have obviously carefully considered the seventeen
Speaker 1: social issues that are probably existing in the world today.
Speaker 1: I guess they're not expecting it to be exhausted, but
Speaker 1: be fairly exhausted. It's probably easier then for corporations just
Speaker 1: to adopt one of those because they at least an
Speaker 1: they're in a safe space. They're picking something that is relevant. Yes,
Speaker 1: and so your your app actually is it a web
Speaker 1: app or an actual app, it's an app you but
Speaker 1: your program anyway allow gives them this opportunity to become
Speaker 1: or to stay relevant.
Speaker 2: Yes, to young people the future workforce.
Speaker 1: And Okay, that's interesting, and so it is sort of
Speaker 1: a bit of a branding exercise, but there's also relevancy exercise.
Speaker 1: Got I guess branding is about relevancy, relevancy and branding
Speaker 1: in relation to recruitment, because if you can't recruit, you
Speaker 1: in trouble.
Speaker 2: Correct. So, really, what's overd is is a clever pre
Speaker 2: screening recruits tool for companies and.
Speaker 1: For students, and for both for students as well, because
Speaker 1: the student gets to look at these guys aren't genuine
Speaker 1: or they are genuine or they you know, they they
Speaker 1: believe what I'm what I believe, and so it's not
Speaker 1: really it's sort of like a it's sort of like
Speaker 1: a dating apport between corporations.
Speaker 2: Say that socially responsible dating, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's not people just turning up to their
Speaker 1: house or something that. But it's like actual you know,
Speaker 1: like hanging out together and sort of getting an opportunity
Speaker 1: to meet each other and talk to each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: And so what's the business model on it though, Helen?
Speaker 2: So for you, yes, yeah, so companies pay.
Speaker 1: They pay to be to be on the site. Correct.
Speaker 2: So companies. The value for the companies is that it's
Speaker 2: raising brand awareness to university students, and it's it's gaining talent,
Speaker 2: and it's also youthful perspectives and innovation.
Speaker 1: That's sort of part of their recruitment program. So they
Speaker 1: might end up in seek or something like that. But
Speaker 1: really what they're doing here is as sussing out there.
Speaker 1: They're allowing others to suss them out, and they're going
Speaker 1: to the nursery, which is university is one of the
Speaker 1: one of the nurseries and universities to find out who
Speaker 1: wants to actually tackle the issue. Do people get an
Speaker 1: award or something like let's say I'm a student, I
Speaker 1: go on there and I design you for you know
Speaker 1: whoever it is Microsoft? Do they get a certificate as.
Speaker 2: Yes they do. Yeah, they get a certificate of achievement
Speaker 2: to say I've solved. I'm assolver for Microsoft or I'm
Speaker 2: resolver for Iba.
Speaker 1: What do you call it? As over okay? And as
Speaker 1: it competitive? So in other words that let's say Microsoft
Speaker 1: puts this thing out there, Yeah, to twenty people, do
Speaker 1: they pick one?
Speaker 2: They pick one out of twenty or fifty exactly?
Speaker 1: Do you any much flow through here? Like in terms
Speaker 1: of students.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're just we literally only just launched this year.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So how we're changing the education system in
Speaker 2: a way is that this has been if you think
Speaker 2: of it as a you know, the flywheel, it's a
Speaker 2: double sided marketplace, right, So you've got the students who
Speaker 2: are the users, and you've got companies that create the
Speaker 2: demand and the universities provide the supply of the students.
Speaker 2: So in terms of getting students on the way that
Speaker 2: we acquire students onto the platform is actually by teaching
Speaker 2: it in class. So you'll probably remember from your days
Speaker 2: at UNI, you probably studied a lot of Harvard business
Speaker 2: case studies.
Speaker 1: I actually I have taught them in them in my
Speaker 1: teaching career at the university.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so I guess Soolve it in a way
Speaker 2: is substituting the h Harvard Business case studies. So instead
Speaker 2: of jumping, you know, a lecturer standing up in front
Speaker 2: of class saying, hey, we're going to study a Harvard
Speaker 2: business case study, we're going to jump on the Zolve platform.
Speaker 2: So they'll actually use it as a formal assessment teaching
Speaker 2: a correct Yeah. Yeah, so they'll do a formal assessment
Speaker 2: in relation to deep diving into the actual problem itself,
Speaker 2: coming up with a business recommendation report, and then they'll
Speaker 2: do a pitching assessment as well.
Speaker 1: Use apply all the training for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So we provide an education guide and formal
Speaker 2: assessment briefs and rebricks to the lecturers to teach it in.
Speaker 1: So is the source of the students getting onto the
Speaker 1: problem that needs to be solved in this is in class,
Speaker 1: through the through the university. So is your game to
Speaker 1: sign universities up? Correct? So that's what you do, pert
Speaker 1: you and your team, So you go to the university,
Speaker 1: you pitch your idea why they should do it, what's
Speaker 1: in it for the universities.
Speaker 2: So a number of things for them. It's their work
Speaker 2: integrated learning experience for the students. So students do obviously
Speaker 2: who come through the program get to win this potential
Speaker 2: opportunity with the company. So it's a connection of industry
Speaker 2: with the students. But also a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: students are dropping out of classes at the moment too
Speaker 2: because they're not feeling engaged. It's currently twenty.
Speaker 1: Six percent because the courses of relevant I'm not so
Speaker 1: grazed respect to the university I'm at you in a study,
Speaker 1: you know, school business. I find the course of relevant.
Speaker 1: I mean most of the subjects are irrelevant. The students
Speaker 1: have worked it out. Yeah, say what am I doing
Speaker 1: in a three year degree for cost me fifty grand?
Speaker 1: And I'm doing I could have done it one year
Speaker 1: because there any stuff I really want to know about
Speaker 1: is blah blah and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're preferring to go and work and get money,
Speaker 2: whether it's a subway, KFC wherever it is, attend to yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: or entrepreneurship then attend class. So universities are losing students
Speaker 2: in that way. They need to engage them. So for universities,
Speaker 2: it's about engaging them in an interesting, fun, practical way
Speaker 2: because they all hate theoretical like you know, the Harvard
Speaker 2: business case studies. We're sick and tired of these studies.
Speaker 2: Let's bring practice into the class. So it's solving a
Speaker 2: problem for universities in that way. But also you've probably
Speaker 2: come across lecturers. They have a very limited resource in
Speaker 2: terms of the industry people that they know because they
Speaker 2: haven't worked in industry, and they keep calling on their
Speaker 2: mates to come into class. But there's so much you
Speaker 2: can do so solve. It helps bring a number of
Speaker 2: companies into the classroom.
Speaker 1: And so would Microsoft, for example, come into the classroom.
Speaker 2: They can. Now it's up to the lecturer. We can
Speaker 2: organize that for them. I guess we're sort of that
Speaker 2: conduit between the industry partners and the universities. But it's
Speaker 2: it's really so when the companies actually promote their challenges
Speaker 2: on a platform, you've got the executives recording themselves promoting
Speaker 2: the challenge on the platform too, So it's quite engaging.
Speaker 1: Do you have to train the executives because it means
Speaker 1: my experience with some of these executives is that with
Speaker 1: a gress respect, they're not very good in front of
Speaker 1: a camera and a lot of them other all that
Speaker 1: exciting or don't really motivate. They're not really motivated.
Speaker 2: To provide the script for them.
Speaker 1: So it's really actually write it out, do yeah, okay, yes,
Speaker 1: change abuty or open. So are you actually using AI
Speaker 1: for this stuff? We are, So they give you instructions.
Speaker 2: So or we make it really low barrier for the
Speaker 2: companies to come on. We say, give us a topic
Speaker 2: in relation to a problem that you're solving. So a
Speaker 2: brief as in a just just give us one topic
Speaker 2: in relation to something you're struggling with. It might be
Speaker 2: a paragraph, it could be a word. It could be say,
Speaker 2: for example, Ronald McDonald house, I want to come onto
Speaker 2: the platform. We're struggling with food waste in relation to
Speaker 2: you know that our houses come up with a challenge
Speaker 2: that relates to that.
Speaker 1: So you give back. Give me an example, how would
Speaker 1: you instruct the machine for the machine learning to give
Speaker 1: you the answer that you want the script? How would
Speaker 1: you instruct it?
Speaker 2: Well, they actually the AI comes up with the challenge itself.
Speaker 2: Instruct your challenge, Well, it just depends on what would
Speaker 2: put in would be create a challenge aligned to the
Speaker 2: United Nations Sustainable Development Goal. Basically choose the goal and
Speaker 2: it relates to food waste, and then it comes out
Speaker 2: and we say, you know, we'll limit it to give
Speaker 2: us two hundred words.
Speaker 1: To Okay, you say the number of words we have it.
Speaker 2: We have a number of things that we would ask.
Speaker 1: How many peop we've got in your place in your organization?
Speaker 2: How many were they're in the room with us. We've
Speaker 2: actually got seven interns, chief operating officer, Marketing manager, Partnerships manager,
Speaker 2: an it person as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is pretty this is a I'm getting wrapped now,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna both get wrapped. But this is pretty
Speaker 1: sort of innovative. It's like it's somebody come out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: What I mean, what you're telling me, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: quite for me. I mean I see lots of business ideas,
Speaker 1: but for me, this is sort of quite obverse, something
Speaker 1: I would never think of. Like it's just not many
Speaker 1: people ever think of it. And it's interesting and sort
Speaker 1: of how you went through your process. All the sort
Speaker 1: of things that you did, you sort of plot them
Speaker 1: on a curve and they sort of ended up sort
Speaker 1: of up here somewhere. And if you look at the
Speaker 1: x y AXSS like that you ended up here somehow.
Speaker 1: With this current iteration of all your ideas and all
Speaker 1: your experiences going back right back to when you were
Speaker 1: a little kid, it's quite amazing. Yeah, totally like you're
Speaker 1: giving back now but making money out of it too. People,
Speaker 1: And it's begun for it body. But you said a
Speaker 1: year now, what is the next step for you from here?
Speaker 1: Or is it just more built?
Speaker 2: It's a combination of more built but getting into as
Speaker 2: many classes as we can and helping as many young
Speaker 2: versions of me.
Speaker 1: How many universities or campuses are you on now? So
Speaker 1: per school or per university.
Speaker 2: It's a university. So we formerly partnered with Swinburne University
Speaker 2: of Technology who have been incredible support. They actually provided
Speaker 2: us with funding initially to build out the second version
Speaker 2: of this because I built out the first one myself.
Speaker 2: We didn't talk about that, but so swin burn UNI
Speaker 2: at the moment we're on in Victoria, but we're expanding
Speaker 2: across Australia first before we global.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you go to the university. Swinburne is more
Speaker 1: on online university, isn't it. I know they are campus
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I know them to be quite a big
Speaker 1: online or quite active in the digital environment.
Speaker 2: They are so swinburn MELBOUNI, Melbourne Business School r MIT
Speaker 2: for example. They're all on the platform and they're all yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're all teaching in class.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. I don't know the name because I don't
Speaker 1: know if when you say it sounds good, solve it?
Speaker 1: But would I would spell it Z O L.
Speaker 2: V I T, but as well I try that, but
Speaker 2: that to my name was already taken.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now that is kind of sexy. It is as cool,
Speaker 1: but as long as you understand it, like I might not.
Speaker 1: If you had said to me, spells it, I would
Speaker 1: have said Z. But maybe if you said wrong, pick
Speaker 1: a first letter, another first thing, I might have come
Speaker 1: up with excess sexy. When you see it, I get it, yeah,
Speaker 1: but like probably instinctively. But now I understand it. Now
Speaker 1: I know why I might. My logic sort of let
Speaker 1: me down that track, and that you've just corrected me.
Speaker 1: That Xavier zero zero, I see when I names it.
Speaker 1: When zero came out, originally I thought myself, I don't
Speaker 1: know if that name is going to stick. But of
Speaker 1: course it's now global business, so don't worry about what
Speaker 1: would I know about how to spell a brand name?
Speaker 1: Do you raise money for this? You for zol like
Speaker 1: as an investors, I feel like you're pitching to me.
Speaker 1: I'm doing what you used to do.
Speaker 2: Yes, so I have angel investors. I have angel investors.
Speaker 1: Yes, and then what's the next stage in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, economies of scale more important. Yes, therefore you
Speaker 1: need more people on the ground and Sydney meln.
Speaker 2: So we'll have to go down the point of properly
Speaker 2: VC at.
Speaker 1: Some stage just a scare you VC.
Speaker 2: Yes and no, mostly yes, but no because it's a
Speaker 2: requirement I think in order to scale properly. And there's
Speaker 2: some amazing angel investor out there that just says, yeah, here,
Speaker 2: here's millions. But yeah, yeah, of course. And also, female
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs are in the minority as far as VC funding.
Speaker 1: Goes, and vcs need to therefore inter their own diversity policies,
Speaker 1: need to actually fund more female entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do.
Speaker 1: There's sort of nearly a compulsion to do it. And
Speaker 1: by the ways, plenty of good ones around you don't
Speaker 1: They just don't have to pick someone for the sake
Speaker 1: of it. There's plenty of good female entrepreneurs where they
Speaker 1: can invest. I want to just round off all this
Speaker 1: one thing, Helen Helen Baker today, do you ever encounter
Speaker 1: any negativity today based on your biological origins then factors
Speaker 1: you're female as well, the factor is a female entrepreneur
Speaker 1: as well, a single female, a single female. So do
Speaker 1: you've experience any constraints and or pushback at all that
Speaker 1: would remind you of what it was like when you're.
Speaker 2: A kid, Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 1: And what what would you what would just what would
Speaker 1: you say the most stark reasons as far as you
Speaker 1: can sort of work out for that constraint or for that.
Speaker 2: Pushback that people were giving me.
Speaker 1: Is it because your female is because you're an entrepreneurs,
Speaker 1: because you're female entrepreneurs, because you're a female entrepreneur with
Speaker 1: tan skin, or what is it?
Speaker 2: I don't think it's it's a female entrepreneur with tan skin.
Speaker 2: I think it's in terms of the pushback that I get,
Speaker 2: it's mostly I think related to you don't have enough
Speaker 2: traction yet. But when it comes to funding for example, Yeah,
Speaker 2: for example, yeah, yeah, that's right, you don't have enough tracks.
Speaker 1: Where's your first million bucks? Where's your first me in
Speaker 1: doors proper?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. But in relation to other pushback, and I
Speaker 2: think it's just standard sales. Yeah, it's just picking up
Speaker 2: the phone to people and trying to sell selling and
Speaker 2: you get pushed back all the time.
Speaker 1: And how do you deal with that? Do you give
Speaker 1: a shit? Like do you just see move on? Who cares?
Speaker 2: You? Just move on? And do you.
Speaker 1: Employ people of let's call it, of diverse backgrounds in
Speaker 1: your business in order to make sure that everyone has.
Speaker 2: A chance, not just because everyone has a chance. But
Speaker 2: of course diversity is really important to me, absolutely, but
Speaker 2: they need to have the skills and the talent and
Speaker 2: the right fit as well.
Speaker 1: So where do you draw the line on that? So
Speaker 1: how do you do that? How do you balance that up?
Speaker 1: Make sure you've got enough diversity both gender, sex, nationality, ethnicity,
Speaker 1: et cetera. How do you build a balance or is
Speaker 1: it just a constant moving target between that and skills
Speaker 1: and not overdoing it and say too many females because
Speaker 1: obvius you might not have enough males. I'm like, how
Speaker 1: do you?
Speaker 2: I think you just get the best person for the job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting coming from someone like you. That's very interesting.
Speaker 1: The best person for the job, best person for the
Speaker 1: job without any prejudices though of course you do not
Speaker 1: have any prejudice against the It's probably impossible for you
Speaker 1: to have a prejudice it.
Speaker 2: You know what is interesting about this mark is it
Speaker 2: often what I'm seeing, particularly in terms of those people
Speaker 2: who come through the zolvet platform who really want these
Speaker 2: opportunities are people like myself who've been dissed as students,
Speaker 2: as in students who've had disadvantage backgrounds and who are
Speaker 2: trying to get ahead and that this is their way
Speaker 2: to really demonstrate that they're prepared to go the extra mile.
Speaker 2: And often it's international students, so that is really interesting.
Speaker 1: Do you think, as you have to wind up here,
Speaker 1: but I'm always fascinated about this, do you think that's
Speaker 1: as a result of our non international students have it
Speaker 1: too good and there's no compulsion, there's no need for
Speaker 1: them to really put themselves out there.
Speaker 2: I think Australians very privileged. I think Australian.
Speaker 1: Students relative to non Australians.
Speaker 2: Yep, yes, I believe. So. I also believe and this
Speaker 2: racism is still ethnic discrimination still exists. And Monash for example,
Speaker 2: put out a study recently which proved is quite well
Speaker 2: in the workplace. They did a study of two year
Speaker 2: study with twelve thousand applicants. They put applications out there.
Speaker 2: They had English sounding names and you know, ethnic sounding names,
Speaker 2: and those with ethnic sounding names received fewer callbacks compared
Speaker 2: to the English and they had identical safees.
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm sorry, I just do not get
Speaker 1: why there should be any prejudice against a person because
Speaker 1: of whether oborn, what kind of their eyes and skin are,
Speaker 1: or their hair, what their culture is, what the religion is.
Speaker 2: I just don't.
Speaker 1: Understand how they can make any difference in relation to
Speaker 1: hiring a person at all.
Speaker 2: Well, that is a lovelyad here.
Speaker 1: No, but I grew up that way. But like, how
Speaker 1: can anybody. I don't care if you're black from Middle
Speaker 1: of Africa, the Congo wherever, if you have got the skills,
Speaker 1: But I don't see what that individual's different. But the
Speaker 1: difference is that particular individual because of the color of
Speaker 1: the skin, for example.
Speaker 2: But it goes back, it goes back to history and
Speaker 2: back to the nineteen oh one. These I know, but
Speaker 2: it's still ingrained in culture today.
Speaker 1: Even if you grow up that way, surely you're an
Speaker 1: intellect will tell you there is no difference.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I love about this gen that
Speaker 2: the next generations though, they embrace diversity like no other generation,
Speaker 2: which I absolutely love.
Speaker 1: Well, do you think there's mull? Just have finished off
Speaker 1: this sory because I'm getting wound up. But do you
Speaker 1: think there's any difference between Like in my case, I
Speaker 1: just don't see any difference between aywheys so yep as
Speaker 1: opposed to I don't go out and embrace diversity and say, oh,
Speaker 1: I ain't going to go get an African person who
Speaker 1: work in my place and I we're going to get
Speaker 1: a that's just for it.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of that going on.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's any difference between actually embracing it
Speaker 1: as a young person, say a gen Z person who
Speaker 1: actually is sort of passionate about it, as opposed to
Speaker 1: say someone like me, which I think I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people around like me, but obviously never
Speaker 1: that's in terms of sovis that's the end of one,
Speaker 1: which is not Brett good so very statistically speaking I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. But where I think I just don't think
Speaker 1: it's any different. So between anybody. I don't care what
Speaker 1: you look like or which part of the worlds you're
Speaker 1: born and born and even where your book are brought up.
Speaker 1: I couldn't care less if you've got the skill and
Speaker 1: you've got the energy and whatever, you've got the job
Speaker 1: in my case, And is there any difference between the
Speaker 1: way I feel and gen Z who actually embraces it like,
Speaker 1: actually it's a thing for them, it's not a thing
Speaker 1: for me. But I also prejudice is not a thing
Speaker 1: for me either, not either one? Is it a difference
Speaker 1: because I'm only just thought of this now and you're
Speaker 1: someone who's in the middle of it all this, so
Speaker 1: maybe you can help me out here. Is there a difference?
Speaker 1: Should I be actually embracing it like the gen Z
Speaker 1: am I letting anyone down by not embracing it, given
Speaker 1: that I don't have any prejudice whatsoever prejudicial bone in
Speaker 1: my body? Should I be changing it up and embracing
Speaker 1: it like gen Z?
Speaker 2: How would you do that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's my second question to you, when
Speaker 1: I was going to say how do I do it?
Speaker 1: But yeah, how would.
Speaker 2: You embrace it? I guess you have you have a
Speaker 2: platform that you can embrace it in that way.
Speaker 1: I could promote it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you could promote it, but you could also
Speaker 2: embrace it in Is there.
Speaker 1: A reason why I need to do that? I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not asking for a judgment a bit, like just
Speaker 1: just help me out it, Like is your industries what
Speaker 1: you do? And you're somewhere in between me and those
Speaker 1: gen zs closer to gen Z than you ask to me,
Speaker 1: but like it, just help me out it, Like is
Speaker 1: there something that I'm missing that I'm not doing as
Speaker 1: an old dude.
Speaker 2: Something that you're missing, that you're not doing well.
Speaker 1: I think should be saying, all my team and okay,
Speaker 1: let's from now on, we're going to have two more girls,
Speaker 1: and we're going to get.
Speaker 2: The best way. And one you don't want to do
Speaker 2: something just for the sake of it, which is washing.
Speaker 2: But the best way I think that you can embrace
Speaker 2: this is by leading by example. So it's by the smallest,
Speaker 2: it's the little one percent. It's the treating people you
Speaker 2: know in a cafe who just exactly how you would
Speaker 2: treat anyone, but exactly anything you do anyway, So you're
Speaker 2: already embracing it.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's enough.
Speaker 2: Students, don't you know young gen Z for example, sometimes
Speaker 2: they go a little bit too far.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's sort of my point because something
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if I think that's where you if I'm
Speaker 1: out of touch, and because I've always thought this way,
Speaker 1: I couldn't care less where someone comes from. Like I said,
Speaker 1: that Chinese kid Michael him like he was like I
Speaker 1: was an order of the guy, Like I didn't even
Speaker 1: sort of I mean, obviously he looked different everybody else,
Speaker 1: but I meant nothing to me. Yeah, I actually felt
Speaker 1: like you looked a bit, like, in a good way,
Speaker 1: exotic relative to all of us. You know, I look
Speaker 1: like a typical European and all my friends look like
Speaker 1: typical Australians. He was like, yeah, he was. He looked exotic,
Speaker 1: like he looked cool. It was cool, looked like him.
Speaker 1: Like girls like you, Like if you went to my
Speaker 1: school or the girls school next door to me, the
Speaker 1: boys would have thought you looked exotic relative to all
Speaker 1: the other girls. I think I don't know, maybe I'm.
Speaker 2: Just do you think I think a lot of boys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying you're coming from your friend, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just lovely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, but like I'm just thinking that's
Speaker 1: what they would have thought. But maybe they didn't. But
Speaker 1: because and because I think what's really important is always
Speaker 1: to keep evolving and from where you are, where you
Speaker 1: and where you've evolved, it just to continue to evolve,
Speaker 1: because I think in terms of relevancy, you must evolve.
Speaker 1: And and you know, gen Z is a really mysterious,
Speaker 1: mysterious place for me, and I'm always trying to stay modern. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think it keeps you, It keeps you keeps
Speaker 1: you young, keeps you young great, and if you don't,
Speaker 1: you can sort of slump back into a pretty shitty place,
Speaker 1: and then you start to age my view, and.
Speaker 2: You need to surround yourself with young people too. And
Speaker 2: that's why I love like I've got eight interns at
Speaker 2: the moment, and they're young and enthusiastic and they keep
Speaker 2: me young. They're great.
Speaker 1: It's worked. Thanks good luck to you. Thanks very much, Ellen.
Speaker 1: Great talking to you got me thinking great.