Speaker 1: Apodja Production.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Poison, the podcast about the social media
Speaker 2: influencer who allegedly drugged a child for fame and followers.
Speaker 1: I'm Jay Walkinen, I'm Mickey Fisher, and.
Speaker 2: Today's episode, we're going to recap a little bit about
Speaker 2: what we talked about last week, and then we want
Speaker 2: to bring up a conversation I guess about some of
Speaker 2: the things that me and you have been talking off
Speaker 2: mike about over the last couple of weeks. And it's
Speaker 2: certainly a conversation that is happening out there in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a conversation that's really finally being
Speaker 3: had a lot and I know even a lot of
Speaker 3: our community and a lot of our listeners. It's something
Speaker 3: that they're really interested in and something that they're discussing.
Speaker 3: So I think it's important that we have a chat
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 2: Excellent, So let's firstly go to we are going to
Speaker 2: do a live show, and that live show Q and
Speaker 2: A is going to happen this coming Thursday, in fact,
Speaker 2: so a couple of nights. If you've already applied for
Speaker 2: the show, then you would have got a link to
Speaker 2: a private recording of it and that'll be our next
Speaker 2: episode where we get a lot of Q and A questions.
Speaker 2: Last week's episode with b Yorka who's the expert in
Speaker 2: Munchausen bar Proxy such an interesting episode. Yeah, how what
Speaker 2: was the feedback like and how did you feel about
Speaker 2: the episode now it's a week gone.
Speaker 3: Well, I think a lot of people found it as
Speaker 3: interesting as I think we did and got a lot
Speaker 3: out of it. There was some feedback around. I know
Speaker 3: we had someone email us in regards to when she
Speaker 3: was talking about autism diagnosises and ADHD diagnosises and whether
Speaker 3: or not what Beatrice was saying was helpful because it's
Speaker 3: difficult enough. I guess as parents who were trying to
Speaker 3: get a diagnosis for their child, they don't really want
Speaker 3: anyone to be adding any another thing, another layer of suspicion,
Speaker 3: I think is sort of what they were saying.
Speaker 2: What Beatrice was telling us last week was essentially her
Speaker 2: observations as a person that had looked into this across
Speaker 2: a period of time.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think the reality is is that there are times
Speaker 3: where there is a misdiagnosis and then there are times
Speaker 3: where there isn't a diagnosis at all.
Speaker 2: As I mentioned, We do have a Q and A
Speaker 2: coming up this week we're recording. That'll be next week's episode,
Speaker 2: but I wanted to grab out a couple of these questions, Micky,
Speaker 2: there's a couple in there that I actually don't know
Speaker 2: the answer to. One of the questions was how do
Speaker 2: you put your own opinions aside when we're recording? And
Speaker 2: is it difficult for us to not modern maate comment
Speaker 2: of our own.
Speaker 3: Well, I really like that question because I think it's
Speaker 3: something that we're.
Speaker 1: Both very aware of. For me, I know that my
Speaker 1: opinion doesn't.
Speaker 3: Help the case, and at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: even my intuition anything in regards to it doesn't mean
Speaker 3: anything unless there's actually any facts anyway, So I think
Speaker 3: everybody we've all got opinion and it's just like an
Speaker 3: interesting thing to have. But until the evidence is there,
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2: We will hear more of that evidence, we don't know
Speaker 2: how much more. On the twenty eighth of this month
Speaker 2: of April list the next.
Speaker 1: Mentioned in court, Well how about you, Jay.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't find it hard because for the
Speaker 2: same reason I don't think it's helpful. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's helpful to have an opinion this happened or this
Speaker 2: is what I feel about this. I think if we're
Speaker 2: honest in presenting this podcast, the reason we wanted to
Speaker 2: do it was shine a light on it, and along
Speaker 2: the way it's become more than what we thought it
Speaker 2: was going to be when we first started.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it opens up a whole bunch of other questions,
Speaker 2: some of them are going to delve into today. So
Speaker 2: I don't think it's difficult, because that's not what the
Speaker 2: intent of the show was in the first place.
Speaker 3: The next question was, now that the data is cleared,
Speaker 3: are we able to get him on.
Speaker 2: Basically, we've asked a question to him and we've had
Speaker 2: a response that he's nervous about the access to his children, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and how coming on a show might impede that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: which I think is fair. And so the offer is
Speaker 2: always there for him to come on. What we would
Speaker 2: have to make sure is that we don't ask him
Speaker 2: anything about this case, yes, because if he ends up
Speaker 2: being a witness in the case, you would imagine that
Speaker 2: messes with a whole bunch of legal things that we
Speaker 2: just don't want to mess with.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, So I think the right thing to do
Speaker 2: is if he was to come on, it would be
Speaker 2: about how he's feeling mm hm and how he's coping,
Speaker 2: not about what did you see? What happened? What are
Speaker 2: the allegations, how did it all go down? Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that would be the wrong thing to do, certainly
Speaker 2: at this point. Yeah, and then the final question. There's
Speaker 2: plenty more of these questions, and we're going to obviously
Speaker 2: delve into more of them in the next Q and A.
Speaker 2: But I think this is a really interesting one because
Speaker 2: I spent a bit of time thinking about this question,
Speaker 2: and it is in this particular case, these allegations, what
Speaker 2: has shocked you the most?
Speaker 1: Oh, what has shocked me the most?
Speaker 3: I feel like I've got two answers because I've got
Speaker 3: one that's very relevant to the case. And to be honest,
Speaker 3: I think the thing that shocked me the most was
Speaker 3: that was real. I think when we went to court
Speaker 3: and there was evidence and there were videos, and because
Speaker 3: I think to a degree, you're sitting there going like
Speaker 3: this feels outrageous, Like surely not.
Speaker 4: It feels like a Hollywood movie.
Speaker 2: Totally horrible Hollywood movie, but a Hollywood movie.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So, I think I've felt genuine shocked when we
Speaker 3: went in and there was evidence and there was you know,
Speaker 3: so I think that shocked me. And then I think
Speaker 3: the other thing that shocked me is really just how
Speaker 3: prevalent it is. Like we started the podcast, we're talking
Speaker 3: about an influencer who has like put their children online,
Speaker 3: and you.
Speaker 1: Know what's become of that.
Speaker 3: But then realizing, you know, like the Ruby Frank case
Speaker 3: has sort of come up, and Bell Gibson sort of
Speaker 3: like been showing up again, and people are really talking
Speaker 3: about what social media is doing for children in so
Speaker 3: many different ways. And I think that's been something that's
Speaker 3: constantly on my mind.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's the same for me.
Speaker 2: Like where you've seen it might be a terrible analogy,
Speaker 2: but you might get what I mean.
Speaker 4: You know, when you're.
Speaker 2: About to buy a car, you're thinking of getting the
Speaker 2: new toy at a camera and then you drive down
Speaker 2: the street. You've never seen a toy out of camera before,
Speaker 2: but it's sends suddenly every second car as a toilet
Speaker 2: a cameray. Yes, it's like this case. You know, there's
Speaker 2: the Ruby Frank staff. There's the show Adolescence, which I
Speaker 2: know we've both just watched all though different similar bullying online.
Speaker 2: There's the federal government who have just changed laws around
Speaker 2: kids being online. There's influences that we know or know
Speaker 2: of that are changing the way they behave online. So
Speaker 2: it just feels like it's right in our face right now,
Speaker 2: which I think is a good thing.
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree, And I think we've said from the
Speaker 3: start that it's important for us to use this case
Speaker 3: as a way to really begin this conversation or like
Speaker 3: really make the conversation more prevalent, you know, something that
Speaker 3: we all get involved in, because I don't think it's
Speaker 3: something that we can attach shame too. Because we are
Speaker 3: the first generation who have children online. A lot of
Speaker 3: us are the first to you know, be dealing with
Speaker 3: social media and then dealing with social media.
Speaker 1: At our kids.
Speaker 3: And we're starting to see the repercussions of it now,
Speaker 3: and so I think we're going, oh, wow, we actually
Speaker 3: have to do something about this.
Speaker 2: I think i'd love to talk now about the Ruby
Speaker 2: Frank case happened in twenty twenty three. If you're not
Speaker 2: across the case, the overview is she was a mummy vlogger,
Speaker 2: blogger if you like, a bunch of followers six million
Speaker 2: I think it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, across YouTube.
Speaker 3: I think she was really big on YouTube and then
Speaker 3: got on the TikTok and everything else.
Speaker 4: And so did you know of her?
Speaker 3: I never, I didn't know anything about her until Little
Speaker 3: came out and I was instantly very intrigued.
Speaker 1: I listened to podcasts about it.
Speaker 3: There's now documentary out on Disney because it was horrific.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the way this was uncovered was her
Speaker 2: twelve year old son was able to escape the house
Speaker 2: to next door neighbor. And he's a bit of a
Speaker 2: nine one that the neighbor made when the child turned
Speaker 2: up nine. I'm on the address of your emergency okay,
Speaker 2: and the phone number calling from.
Speaker 5: Tell me exactly what's happened. I just had a twelve
Speaker 5: year old boy show up here at my front door
Speaker 5: asking for help. And he's said he had just came
Speaker 5: from a neighbor's house, and we know there's been problems
Speaker 5: at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated, he's got tape around
Speaker 5: his legs, he's hungry and he's thirsty. Okay, he is
Speaker 5: your door locked? No, I'm sitting outside with him on
Speaker 5: the front patio, and he asked us to call the police.
Speaker 5: This kid has obviously been I think he's he's changed,
Speaker 5: he's obviously covered in worlds.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get the.
Speaker 5: Paramedics edit over that way. Okay, Oh, that's a good
Speaker 5: idea too.
Speaker 3: It's just shocking, like it's horrific, especially when you learn
Speaker 3: about the rest of the story and things start to
Speaker 3: become revealed, and because like you know, I heard that
Speaker 3: when it sort of first came about, and you know,
Speaker 3: there was like allegations of abuse and then people were
Speaker 3: going back through old videos that they'd done, and the
Speaker 3: way that she spoke to the children, like she wouldn't
Speaker 3: give them food or make a child sleep on the
Speaker 3: floor as punishment. She was very like I think, quite
Speaker 3: conservative and very like strong about children need to be
Speaker 3: punished for their actions.
Speaker 2: And Ruby has an older daughter called Shari, and Shari
Speaker 2: obviously lived with her mum for a period of time
Speaker 2: and she's now come out. She's written a book. But
Speaker 2: her first thing was to go before Parliament in the studs,
Speaker 2: the House of Reps and actually addressed if you like,
Speaker 2: almost as a victim impact statement.
Speaker 4: And he's a part of that. Now, thank you.
Speaker 1: For having me today.
Speaker 6: My name is Shery Franky My mother Ruby Frankie is
Speaker 6: a prominent family blogger that was arrested last year for
Speaker 6: child abuse. I don't come today as a daughter of
Speaker 6: a felon, nor as a victim of an abnormally abusive mother.
Speaker 1: I come today as a victim of family blogging.
Speaker 6: My goal is not to present any idea of a
Speaker 6: solution to this problem, but to shed light on the
Speaker 6: ethical and monetary issues that come from being a child influencer.
Speaker 6: When children become stars in their family's online content, they
Speaker 6: become child influencers. It is more than just filming your
Speaker 6: family life and putting it online. It is a full
Speaker 6: time job with employees, business credit cards, managers, and marketing strategies.
Speaker 6: The difference between family blogging and a normal business, however,
Speaker 6: is that all the children are employees. Children from before
Speaker 6: they are born to the day they turn eighteen have
Speaker 6: become the stars of family business on YouTube, Instagram, and
Speaker 6: other social media platforms. Utah is specifically a hotspot for
Speaker 6: family content due to the LDS culture around family and
Speaker 6: the goal to share the Church with the world. We
Speaker 6: also have large families, which makes family content more lucrative. Specifically,
Speaker 6: many parents film their regular family life as an online
Speaker 6: video blog called of vlog.
Speaker 1: But I want to be.
Speaker 6: Clear that there is never ever a good reason for
Speaker 6: posting your children online for money or theme. There is
Speaker 6: no such thing as a moral or ethical family blogger.
Speaker 2: We reached out to Showeri to see if she'll come
Speaker 2: on the show because I think her perspective would be
Speaker 2: really interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as the child, as a child who you know,
Speaker 3: was constantly filmed, who constantly had a camera in her face,
Speaker 3: who you know parts of her life was shared online
Speaker 3: without her consent, you know, because like can a child
Speaker 3: really consent to being on social media?
Speaker 4: And it's a really interesting question.
Speaker 2: I think that's where the reason we wanted to bring
Speaker 2: up this Ruby Frankie kais is because that's the question
Speaker 2: it pauses for us ROT.
Speaker 5: Today we are starting off our day the way we
Speaker 5: do every day.
Speaker 6: Now for the first time Ruby's eldest daughter, Sheeri, is
Speaker 6: telling her story. Sometimes I'll like see myself in the
Speaker 6: mirror and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I look
Speaker 6: like her or I sound like her, But I don't
Speaker 6: want to be anything like her. When I was younger,
Speaker 6: around like five or six, like Ruby was really physical like,
Speaker 6: you know, whether it was like a slap to the
Speaker 6: lip or slap to the cheek when I would practice
Speaker 6: a piano, you know, like her hand would slam, and
Speaker 6: like it was really scary.
Speaker 1: To my babies, my six little chicks.
Speaker 5: You are a part of me.
Speaker 1: Did you believe that she was apologetic?
Speaker 6: I think that she's as sorry as she can be.
Speaker 6: What she has done is so bad that I don't
Speaker 6: think her mind allows her to kind of fully comprehend the.
Speaker 1: Guilt of all that, and.
Speaker 6: So I think that she probably genuinely believed everything she said.
Speaker 1: I don't believe it, though.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that we're talking about this because someone put
Speaker 3: a post up and I haven't we have to approve everything,
Speaker 3: haven't approved it to go out yet, because I thought
Speaker 3: it'd be interesting for us to discuss it first. And
Speaker 3: I'm seeing a lot of people online really starting to
Speaker 3: talk about how we share our children online. A lot
Speaker 3: of influencers are starting to take their children offline. They're
Speaker 3: starting to talk out about it, and it's obviously something
Speaker 3: that I think is starting to be spoken of. So
Speaker 3: this person, this anonymous member in our Facebook group, they
Speaker 3: said this case is a perfect example, this case being
Speaker 3: Obviously the case yeah is a perfect example of child
Speaker 3: exploitation for money, which is one of the charges against
Speaker 3: this person. I know the government is working on stopping
Speaker 3: children under a certain age joining social media platforms, but
Speaker 3: what can be done to stop parents risking their child's
Speaker 3: safety to exploit them for money. In this instance, previous
Speaker 3: photos showed their home, car, school uniforms, etc. Their names
Speaker 3: are mentioned, and their daily activities. On one site, a
Speaker 3: member said that it took them fifteen or so minutes
Speaker 3: to find where they lived, the children's names, parents named,
Speaker 3: sibling names and other private details put in the daily
Speaker 3: post for anyone to see. What perfect tools for someone
Speaker 3: to abduct a child. Prompts on the site were subscribed
Speaker 3: for more photos. What photos were they? Photos of a
Speaker 3: child before such after brain surgery? Selling your child's privacy
Speaker 3: for seven dollars? Really, what parent would publish the personal
Speaker 3: photos of a child in such a vulnerable state. This
Speaker 3: raises another question is there any check on the subscribers?
Speaker 3: Are these influencers just interested in the money they can
Speaker 3: make or do they do a check on the potential
Speaker 3: subscribers as in like are they checking to make sure
Speaker 3: there's not widos that are exactly how do you know?
Speaker 2: How do you know someone's a wido from a Facebook profile? Micky,
Speaker 2: I think it's important to mention that you yourself, and
Speaker 2: I know you don't like this label, but I'm going
Speaker 2: to label it for a moment. If you're okay, you're
Speaker 2: a mummy blogger back in the day when you first
Speaker 2: got on socials, yes, and you definitely took pictures of
Speaker 2: your kids, yes, and you used.
Speaker 4: Them online yep.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: To go back to what you said earlier, this is
Speaker 2: not about shaming you. This is about bringing attention to it.
Speaker 2: What was the decision for you to stop using your
Speaker 2: kids on social.
Speaker 3: So there were two things that really niggled at my mind.
Speaker 3: A lot for starters, Yes, I was over sharing my
Speaker 3: daughter so much. I look back now and I think
Speaker 3: what was I doing? And because I think people begin
Speaker 3: doing it quite innocently, and a lot of people are like,
Speaker 3: whether you've got five followers or you've got five million followers,
Speaker 3: I think the reality is is do you really know
Speaker 3: who's following you? And even if it's like an uncle, like,
Speaker 3: it's happening not just online, it's happening within families and
Speaker 3: all of that. But I would share my kids online,
Speaker 3: and occasionally I would have people message me and go, oh, like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to be nasty, or this is just
Speaker 3: like coming from you know, someone who works in child protection.
Speaker 3: But maybe that's a bit too much to share of.
Speaker 1: Your child or whatever.
Speaker 3: So there were messages like that, which is why I
Speaker 3: think it's actually really helpful for you know, when people
Speaker 3: are saying things like this and maybe trying to call
Speaker 3: in influences and say, hey, like I really like what
Speaker 3: you do, but maybe you are over sharing your child
Speaker 3: a little bit. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Speaker 3: Because that was part of my wake up call. I
Speaker 3: kept thinking about consent, which is something that's really important
Speaker 3: to me and should be everybody. But I kept thinking,
Speaker 3: my kids can't consent to this, and am I sharing
Speaker 3: their energy? And am I sharing parts of them that
Speaker 3: they don't know about? They never said yes to this,
Speaker 3: They don't know the people who are commenting on it.
Speaker 1: And people can be seen next.
Speaker 3: Tuesdays online and say whatever they want. And that's fine
Speaker 3: if it's to me, even as me I can barely cop.
Speaker 1: It, But how about a child you know?
Speaker 3: And people on the internet that don't care if it's
Speaker 3: a child, or if it's an adult, they'll make the
Speaker 3: same comments. So there was that aspect, just the consensual aspect.
Speaker 1: And then the.
Speaker 3: Thing that absolutely put me over the line was the
Speaker 3: safety I would be, you know, on stories posting, Oh
Speaker 3: we're going here, we're doing this today, we're blah blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. And then I got a letter in the
Speaker 3: mail or a card in the mail from my estranged father,
Speaker 3: who I don't have anything to do with. I don't
Speaker 3: talk to nothing, haven't for a very very long time.
Speaker 3: The start as he found my address, which was concerning
Speaker 3: in itself because we'd moved.
Speaker 1: He shouldn't have had my address.
Speaker 3: And in the card he wrote about things that my
Speaker 3: daughter and I had done.
Speaker 1: Oh I saw that you went here.
Speaker 3: I saw that you were there, things that I haven't
Speaker 3: had a conversation with. I hadn't had a conversation, nor
Speaker 3: have I saying like, oh, yeah, you know, we did this,
Speaker 3: we've done that. He should not have had access to
Speaker 3: that information. And for a lot of us, you know,
Speaker 3: we've got roast tinted glasses on where we don't think
Speaker 3: about people like that, people who will take all of
Speaker 3: that information, who will take those photos and do things
Speaker 3: with them. Take the fact that you've shown enough information
Speaker 3: that they can figure out where you live, what school
Speaker 3: your kids go to, when they're there, when they're at soccer,
Speaker 3: when they're at swimming, all of those things.
Speaker 1: The reality is, are those people out there?
Speaker 3: And like, it's our job as parents to protect our kids,
Speaker 3: not like throw them to the wolves, you know. And
Speaker 3: again this comes from I think if we add any
Speaker 3: layer of shame to this, it's not helpful because a
Speaker 3: lot of us we're not doing it to be malicious.
Speaker 1: No one's doing it to be malicious.
Speaker 3: But I think it is so important that if we've
Speaker 3: got the government going children under sixteen can't have social media,
Speaker 3: where's the line? Then, where's the line of putting a
Speaker 3: child on social media?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 4: I have children and we think about the same things.
Speaker 3: Well, and this is really interesting because we're at two
Speaker 3: different stages.
Speaker 4: Right year old, My kids go, do not post that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I go, okay, They're about to go on their
Speaker 2: semi formal yes. And I said to them, I really
Speaker 2: want to take a picture of you for your semi formal?
Speaker 2: Is that okay? And they went sure, And I said,
Speaker 2: I'm going to post it too. Is that Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: sure they will have complete veto on any photo that
Speaker 2: goes up on them. But I can tell you when
Speaker 2: they were younger, we posted with them and again we
Speaker 2: weren't thinking like the world is thinking now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it really is like not something that you
Speaker 3: consider too much.
Speaker 1: And even as far as like I just.
Speaker 3: Kept putting myself in almost my kid's shoes, where you know,
Speaker 3: if I was to share something, as you said, I
Speaker 3: was a mummy blogger. I literally like wrote blogs on
Speaker 3: like my kids and the development and what they were
Speaker 3: going through, and I wasn't getting sleep and they were
Speaker 3: doing this and like you know, a nappy exploded or
Speaker 3: toilet training.
Speaker 1: Things like that.
Speaker 3: And then I went, you know, what, what if someone
Speaker 3: was talking about me online like that and I never
Speaker 3: got to consent to it. What if as an adult,
Speaker 3: someone's you know, taking a video of you having a
Speaker 3: tantrum struggling to deal with your emotions you're having, like say,
Speaker 3: you're balling your eyes out, Jay, and you're sitting here furious, upset,
Speaker 3: dealing with something whatever it is, and I've got my
Speaker 3: camera on you and I'm filming it, and then I
Speaker 3: post that online and that's become quite a normal thing.
Speaker 3: Is you know, we're filming our children in these really
Speaker 3: vulnerable states, whether it's like a good vulnerable, whether it's
Speaker 3: an emotional vulnerable, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: But they haven't said yes to that.
Speaker 2: I guess the question is, and this is the difficult question,
Speaker 2: at what level is okay? Here's I guess my point.
Speaker 2: I'm a proud dad. We have two beautiful girls, I've
Speaker 2: got an older son, and all of those things, of
Speaker 2: those milestone moments is really helpful. I've got family throughout
Speaker 2: Australia and overseas, and so it's great that they can
Speaker 2: see my kid's development.
Speaker 4: As they go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 4: It's a quandary for me as I go, Is that okay?
Speaker 2: Is it okay that if my kid learned to ride
Speaker 2: a bike for the first time, that I video that
Speaker 2: and put it on my socials because I'm proud?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And is there a difference between that and putting a
Speaker 2: kid on my socials because I'm trying to gain a following.
Speaker 4: Or I'm trying to get a free.
Speaker 1: Bike, yes, Or I need them for content.
Speaker 4: Or I need them for content. I've gone.
Speaker 2: Actually, my content calendar this week is two bits of content,
Speaker 2: a little bit on the podcast, little bit of my
Speaker 2: own own life. I guess it goes back to intent. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a really difficult one. It's a really I understand
Speaker 2: and I'll probably get some hate for this, But what
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do is open up a conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to go what is reasonable? Is it a blanket ban
Speaker 2: on consent? My kid can't say yes, put that photo online?
Speaker 2: So I can't ever do that again.
Speaker 3: Because I think, like what you were saying about sharing
Speaker 3: it with friends and family and all of that, that
Speaker 3: to me feels like normal. I do that, Like I've
Speaker 3: got spaces where I do share photos of my kids
Speaker 3: and what they're doing to family and friends. And one
Speaker 3: thing that I often think when it comes to, you know,
Speaker 3: being an online presence and being someone with you know,
Speaker 3: influence or whatever, can you be online without showing your kids?
Speaker 3: Do you need your children to be able to create content?
Speaker 3: Are you able to show up just you by yourself?
Speaker 3: And that was like a really big thing for me
Speaker 3: when I was really going back and forth with it,
Speaker 3: was I wrote about being a mum.
Speaker 1: That was my whole thing.
Speaker 3: I was a mummy blogger and all of that who
Speaker 3: am I without using my kids then? And for me
Speaker 3: it really then just went on, well, it shouldn't be
Speaker 3: about them, it should be about me. I can talk
Speaker 3: about your mine, your experiences, and I can talk about
Speaker 3: what it's like to be a mum, and there's actually
Speaker 3: it was really empowering to really bring it back to me,
Speaker 3: you know, And I think for a lot of people,
Speaker 3: I think we all have that opportunity and you can
Speaker 3: still share about your experience as a parent without sharing
Speaker 3: your kids.
Speaker 2: And I think what we've just heard before with Shari
Speaker 2: Frankie's interview on Tally, which was you're not going to
Speaker 2: know the impact you've had on those children hour of
Speaker 2: an age where they can have a conversation with you totally.
Speaker 2: And so Sharif Frankie has now come out and gone
Speaker 2: it was terrible, Like the things that happened to me
Speaker 2: were horrible. We're talking about the extreme here, so we're
Speaker 2: not talking about posting pictures of the kids online. We're
Speaker 2: talking about the extreme of that.
Speaker 1: Particular case over sharing.
Speaker 2: And you think about the case that we're talking about,
Speaker 2: the one here in Australia, the child that's involved there
Speaker 2: in twenty thirty years time, will be the person that
Speaker 2: we're talking about. Yeah, and their life and struggles have
Speaker 2: been shared for eighteen months and probably in real life
Speaker 2: the next three years is likely to be talked about
Speaker 2: because of courkcases and the ongoing saga that is this
Speaker 2: particular case.
Speaker 3: And I again I'm talking like you say, you might
Speaker 3: get some backlash. I've got friends who are in They're
Speaker 3: some of my best friends, and we have conversations about
Speaker 3: this and they know I guess how I feel about it.
Speaker 3: But again, like I think it's just an important conversation
Speaker 3: to have again without shaming anyone more about just going hey,
Speaker 3: it's okay to change your mind and maybe we should discuss.
Speaker 2: Like any conversation. Yeah, it might help you think about
Speaker 2: something differently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely and.
Speaker 2: Make you second guess the next time you go to
Speaker 2: post to be true of your kid? How would I
Speaker 2: feel hmmm if I was my child?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And can I make money without using them? Would I
Speaker 3: be making the same money without them? And like, I'd
Speaker 3: love to know people's thoughts as well.
Speaker 4: I think we'll get them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think whether we ask.
Speaker 5: Them or.
Speaker 4: We'll get them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because as you said, and it's kind of like
Speaker 3: the show adolescence. At the end, it wasn't uh, these
Speaker 3: are all the answers, and you know, this is what
Speaker 3: we have to do. When we've got all the answers
Speaker 3: right there. It was a completely open ended question when
Speaker 3: this is what happening, what do we do about it?
Speaker 3: And I think this is that same case. This is
Speaker 3: what's happening, what do we do about it?
Speaker 2: Our next episode is A Q and A and where
Speaker 2: you get to that's my daughter still calling me, So
Speaker 2: something really BIG's happening. Yeah, yeah, probably Billie Artis just
Speaker 2: dropped that album or something I would say. But we
Speaker 2: do have the opportunity for still a few people to
Speaker 2: come on for that Q and A. The links in
Speaker 2: the show notes if you want to join it. It
Speaker 2: closes off tonight, that is Tuesday night, anight, and we'll
Speaker 2: be back next Tuesday with A Q and A on
Speaker 2: poison see that see later. Thanks for listening to this
Speaker 2: episode and supporting this story. Independent storytelling that shapes the
Speaker 2: world is what Pod Shape really cares about. Right now,
Speaker 2: there's thousands of people listening to this show and our
Speaker 2: other true Crimes, and they're completely engaged. More than ten
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Speaker 2: thought about advertising your business in a podcast, there's a
Speaker 2: link to reach out in the show notes, or head
Speaker 2: to podshape dot com to book a free call.