WEBVTT - It's Time To Talk 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Apodja Production. 0:00:15.361 --> 0:00:17.841 Welcome back to Poison, the podcast about the social media 0:00:17.881 --> 0:00:21.641 influencer who allegedly drugged a child for fame and followers. 0:00:21.681 --> 0:00:23.800 I'm Jay Walkinen, I'm Mickey Fisher, and. 0:00:23.881 --> 0:00:26.601 Today's episode, we're going to recap a little bit about 0:00:26.601 --> 0:00:29.521 what we talked about last week, and then we want 0:00:29.521 --> 0:00:32.881 to bring up a conversation I guess about some of 0:00:32.921 --> 0:00:34.801 the things that me and you have been talking off 0:00:34.841 --> 0:00:37.120 mike about over the last couple of weeks. And it's 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.321 certainly a conversation that is happening out there in the world. 0:00:40.641 --> 0:00:43.841 Yeah, I think it's a conversation that's really finally being 0:00:44.001 --> 0:00:45.720 had a lot and I know even a lot of 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:47.921 our community and a lot of our listeners. It's something 0:00:47.961 --> 0:00:50.720 that they're really interested in and something that they're discussing. 0:00:50.801 --> 0:00:52.441 So I think it's important that we have a chat 0:00:52.480 --> 0:00:52.841 about it. 0:00:52.881 --> 0:00:56.121 Excellent, So let's firstly go to we are going to 0:00:56.121 --> 0:00:58.641 do a live show, and that live show Q and 0:00:58.681 --> 0:01:01.161 A is going to happen this coming Thursday, in fact, 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.241 so a couple of nights. If you've already applied for 0:01:04.681 --> 0:01:06.761 the show, then you would have got a link to 0:01:07.001 --> 0:01:09.681 a private recording of it and that'll be our next 0:01:09.721 --> 0:01:12.121 episode where we get a lot of Q and A questions. 0:01:12.601 --> 0:01:15.440 Last week's episode with b Yorka who's the expert in 0:01:15.521 --> 0:01:19.321 Munchausen bar Proxy such an interesting episode. Yeah, how what 0:01:19.401 --> 0:01:21.321 was the feedback like and how did you feel about 0:01:21.321 --> 0:01:23.161 the episode now it's a week gone. 0:01:23.241 --> 0:01:25.921 Well, I think a lot of people found it as 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.401 interesting as I think we did and got a lot 0:01:28.441 --> 0:01:31.801 out of it. There was some feedback around. I know 0:01:31.881 --> 0:01:35.640 we had someone email us in regards to when she 0:01:35.761 --> 0:01:40.321 was talking about autism diagnosises and ADHD diagnosises and whether 0:01:40.441 --> 0:01:43.801 or not what Beatrice was saying was helpful because it's 0:01:43.961 --> 0:01:47.961 difficult enough. I guess as parents who were trying to 0:01:48.081 --> 0:01:51.001 get a diagnosis for their child, they don't really want 0:01:51.441 --> 0:01:55.041 anyone to be adding any another thing, another layer of suspicion, 0:01:55.081 --> 0:01:56.681 I think is sort of what they were saying. 0:01:56.841 --> 0:02:00.001 What Beatrice was telling us last week was essentially her 0:02:00.121 --> 0:02:03.641 observations as a person that had looked into this across 0:02:03.681 --> 0:02:04.441 a period of time. 0:02:04.561 --> 0:02:04.761 Yeah. 0:02:04.761 --> 0:02:07.641 I think the reality is is that there are times 0:02:07.641 --> 0:02:09.921 where there is a misdiagnosis and then there are times 0:02:10.001 --> 0:02:12.881 where there isn't a diagnosis at all. 0:02:13.641 --> 0:02:15.161 As I mentioned, We do have a Q and A 0:02:15.361 --> 0:02:18.161 coming up this week we're recording. That'll be next week's episode, 0:02:18.161 --> 0:02:20.441 but I wanted to grab out a couple of these questions, Micky, 0:02:20.721 --> 0:02:22.241 there's a couple in there that I actually don't know 0:02:22.281 --> 0:02:23.961 the answer to. One of the questions was how do 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.321 you put your own opinions aside when we're recording? And 0:02:27.401 --> 0:02:29.681 is it difficult for us to not modern maate comment 0:02:29.841 --> 0:02:30.520 of our own. 0:02:31.161 --> 0:02:33.440 Well, I really like that question because I think it's 0:02:33.441 --> 0:02:34.721 something that we're. 0:02:34.561 --> 0:02:38.481 Both very aware of. For me, I know that my 0:02:38.561 --> 0:02:39.800 opinion doesn't. 0:02:39.441 --> 0:02:41.680 Help the case, and at the end of the day, 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:47.280 even my intuition anything in regards to it doesn't mean 0:02:47.321 --> 0:02:51.081 anything unless there's actually any facts anyway, So I think 0:02:51.481 --> 0:02:55.721 everybody we've all got opinion and it's just like an 0:02:55.761 --> 0:02:58.681 interesting thing to have. But until the evidence is there, 0:02:58.721 --> 0:02:59.721 it doesn't mean anything. 0:03:00.041 --> 0:03:02.521 We will hear more of that evidence, we don't know 0:03:02.561 --> 0:03:04.921 how much more. On the twenty eighth of this month 0:03:05.401 --> 0:03:06.481 of April list the next. 0:03:06.401 --> 0:03:09.881 Mentioned in court, Well how about you, Jay. 0:03:09.201 --> 0:03:11.281 Well, yeah, I don't find it hard because for the 0:03:11.321 --> 0:03:14.081 same reason I don't think it's helpful. I don't think 0:03:14.121 --> 0:03:17.281 it's helpful to have an opinion this happened or this 0:03:17.361 --> 0:03:20.481 is what I feel about this. I think if we're 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.961 honest in presenting this podcast, the reason we wanted to 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.641 do it was shine a light on it, and along 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.161 the way it's become more than what we thought it 0:03:30.201 --> 0:03:31.481 was going to be when we first started. 0:03:31.721 --> 0:03:31.961 Yeah. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.161 Absolutely, And it opens up a whole bunch of other questions, 0:03:35.681 --> 0:03:37.521 some of them are going to delve into today. So 0:03:37.841 --> 0:03:40.361 I don't think it's difficult, because that's not what the 0:03:40.361 --> 0:03:42.081 intent of the show was in the first place. 0:03:42.281 --> 0:03:45.201 The next question was, now that the data is cleared, 0:03:46.041 --> 0:03:47.081 are we able to get him on. 0:03:47.441 --> 0:03:50.721 Basically, we've asked a question to him and we've had 0:03:50.721 --> 0:03:56.121 a response that he's nervous about the access to his children, Yeah, 0:03:56.121 --> 0:04:00.601 and how coming on a show might impede that, Yeah, 0:04:00.641 --> 0:04:03.281 which I think is fair. And so the offer is 0:04:03.321 --> 0:04:06.081 always there for him to come on. What we would 0:04:06.121 --> 0:04:07.921 have to make sure is that we don't ask him 0:04:07.921 --> 0:04:11.121 anything about this case, yes, because if he ends up 0:04:11.121 --> 0:04:14.561 being a witness in the case, you would imagine that 0:04:14.881 --> 0:04:17.440 messes with a whole bunch of legal things that we 0:04:17.561 --> 0:04:18.441 just don't want to mess with. 0:04:18.801 --> 0:04:19.001 Yeah. 0:04:19.201 --> 0:04:20.760 Yeah, Yeah, So I think the right thing to do 0:04:20.841 --> 0:04:22.081 is if he was to come on, it would be 0:04:22.161 --> 0:04:25.320 about how he's feeling mm hm and how he's coping, 0:04:25.721 --> 0:04:29.361 not about what did you see? What happened? What are 0:04:29.361 --> 0:04:32.521 the allegations, how did it all go down? Yeah, I 0:04:32.601 --> 0:04:34.721 think that would be the wrong thing to do, certainly 0:04:34.721 --> 0:04:37.881 at this point. Yeah, and then the final question. There's 0:04:37.921 --> 0:04:39.880 plenty more of these questions, and we're going to obviously 0:04:40.161 --> 0:04:42.080 delve into more of them in the next Q and A. 0:04:42.521 --> 0:04:44.321 But I think this is a really interesting one because 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.440 I spent a bit of time thinking about this question, 0:04:46.641 --> 0:04:50.241 and it is in this particular case, these allegations, what 0:04:50.361 --> 0:04:51.841 has shocked you the most? 0:04:52.521 --> 0:04:54.200 Oh, what has shocked me the most? 0:04:55.401 --> 0:04:58.321 I feel like I've got two answers because I've got 0:04:58.361 --> 0:05:02.521 one that's very relevant to the case. And to be honest, 0:05:02.601 --> 0:05:04.921 I think the thing that shocked me the most was 0:05:05.921 --> 0:05:08.961 that was real. I think when we went to court 0:05:09.241 --> 0:05:13.640 and there was evidence and there were videos, and because 0:05:13.641 --> 0:05:16.241 I think to a degree, you're sitting there going like 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.200 this feels outrageous, Like surely not. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:21.280 It feels like a Hollywood movie. 0:05:21.801 --> 0:05:24.561 Totally horrible Hollywood movie, but a Hollywood movie. 0:05:25.081 --> 0:05:25.281 Yeah. 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.640 Absolutely, So, I think I've felt genuine shocked when we 0:05:28.761 --> 0:05:31.401 went in and there was evidence and there was you know, 0:05:32.041 --> 0:05:34.121 so I think that shocked me. And then I think 0:05:34.161 --> 0:05:36.001 the other thing that shocked me is really just how 0:05:36.041 --> 0:05:39.440 prevalent it is. Like we started the podcast, we're talking 0:05:39.481 --> 0:05:43.281 about an influencer who has like put their children online, 0:05:43.561 --> 0:05:44.361 and you. 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:45.481 Know what's become of that. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.361 But then realizing, you know, like the Ruby Frank case 0:05:48.401 --> 0:05:50.801 has sort of come up, and Bell Gibson sort of 0:05:50.841 --> 0:05:54.241 like been showing up again, and people are really talking 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.681 about what social media is doing for children in so 0:05:57.841 --> 0:06:01.161 many different ways. And I think that's been something that's 0:06:01.201 --> 0:06:02.121 constantly on my mind. 0:06:02.641 --> 0:06:04.161 Yeah, I think that's the same for me. 0:06:04.761 --> 0:06:08.001 Like where you've seen it might be a terrible analogy, 0:06:08.001 --> 0:06:09.241 but you might get what I mean. 0:06:09.281 --> 0:06:11.241 You know, when you're. 0:06:10.521 --> 0:06:13.640 About to buy a car, you're thinking of getting the 0:06:13.681 --> 0:06:15.681 new toy at a camera and then you drive down 0:06:15.721 --> 0:06:17.681 the street. You've never seen a toy out of camera before, 0:06:17.681 --> 0:06:20.361 but it's sends suddenly every second car as a toilet 0:06:20.401 --> 0:06:23.201 a cameray. Yes, it's like this case. You know, there's 0:06:23.201 --> 0:06:26.561 the Ruby Frank staff. There's the show Adolescence, which I 0:06:26.601 --> 0:06:30.880 know we've both just watched all though different similar bullying online. 0:06:31.481 --> 0:06:35.081 There's the federal government who have just changed laws around 0:06:35.601 --> 0:06:39.241 kids being online. There's influences that we know or know 0:06:39.401 --> 0:06:42.401 of that are changing the way they behave online. So 0:06:42.761 --> 0:06:45.201 it just feels like it's right in our face right now, 0:06:45.201 --> 0:06:46.481 which I think is a good thing. 0:06:46.721 --> 0:06:48.921 Yes, I agree, And I think we've said from the 0:06:49.001 --> 0:06:52.681 start that it's important for us to use this case 0:06:53.001 --> 0:06:56.960 as a way to really begin this conversation or like 0:06:57.161 --> 0:07:01.320 really make the conversation more prevalent, you know, something that 0:07:01.361 --> 0:07:03.801 we all get involved in, because I don't think it's 0:07:03.841 --> 0:07:06.641 something that we can attach shame too. Because we are 0:07:06.681 --> 0:07:10.241 the first generation who have children online. A lot of 0:07:10.281 --> 0:07:12.001 us are the first to you know, be dealing with 0:07:12.001 --> 0:07:14.361 social media and then dealing with social media. 0:07:14.121 --> 0:07:14.801 At our kids. 0:07:15.361 --> 0:07:18.081 And we're starting to see the repercussions of it now, 0:07:18.161 --> 0:07:20.081 and so I think we're going, oh, wow, we actually 0:07:20.121 --> 0:07:21.081 have to do something about this. 0:07:21.321 --> 0:07:23.441 I think i'd love to talk now about the Ruby 0:07:23.441 --> 0:07:26.081 Frank case happened in twenty twenty three. If you're not 0:07:26.121 --> 0:07:30.241 across the case, the overview is she was a mummy vlogger, 0:07:30.281 --> 0:07:33.361 blogger if you like, a bunch of followers six million 0:07:33.401 --> 0:07:34.041 I think it was. 0:07:34.161 --> 0:07:35.281 Yeah, across YouTube. 0:07:35.281 --> 0:07:37.241 I think she was really big on YouTube and then 0:07:37.281 --> 0:07:38.921 got on the TikTok and everything else. 0:07:39.001 --> 0:07:40.321 And so did you know of her? 0:07:40.841 --> 0:07:43.361 I never, I didn't know anything about her until Little 0:07:43.401 --> 0:07:47.321 came out and I was instantly very intrigued. 0:07:47.321 --> 0:07:48.881 I listened to podcasts about it. 0:07:48.921 --> 0:07:53.081 There's now documentary out on Disney because it was horrific. 0:07:53.201 --> 0:07:58.361 Yeah, And so the way this was uncovered was her 0:07:58.401 --> 0:08:03.281 twelve year old son was able to escape the house 0:08:04.041 --> 0:08:07.081 to next door neighbor. And he's a bit of a 0:08:07.161 --> 0:08:11.041 nine one that the neighbor made when the child turned 0:08:11.081 --> 0:08:16.001 up nine. I'm on the address of your emergency okay, 0:08:16.121 --> 0:08:17.761 and the phone number calling from. 0:08:17.921 --> 0:08:21.361 Tell me exactly what's happened. I just had a twelve 0:08:21.401 --> 0:08:23.881 year old boy show up here at my front door 0:08:24.081 --> 0:08:28.681 asking for help. And he's said he had just came 0:08:28.761 --> 0:08:31.561 from a neighbor's house, and we know there's been problems 0:08:31.561 --> 0:08:36.241 at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated, he's got tape around 0:08:36.241 --> 0:08:42.121 his legs, he's hungry and he's thirsty. Okay, he is 0:08:42.121 --> 0:08:46.241 your door locked? No, I'm sitting outside with him on 0:08:46.481 --> 0:08:59.081 the front patio, and he asked us to call the police. 0:09:00.921 --> 0:09:09.441 This kid has obviously been I think he's he's changed, 0:09:10.921 --> 0:09:12.401 he's obviously covered in worlds. 0:09:13.801 --> 0:09:15.961 Okay, let's get the. 0:09:16.041 --> 0:09:19.441 Paramedics edit over that way. Okay, Oh, that's a good 0:09:19.441 --> 0:09:19.881 idea too. 0:09:22.641 --> 0:09:26.361 It's just shocking, like it's horrific, especially when you learn 0:09:26.561 --> 0:09:28.921 about the rest of the story and things start to 0:09:28.961 --> 0:09:31.321 become revealed, and because like you know, I heard that 0:09:31.401 --> 0:09:33.721 when it sort of first came about, and you know, 0:09:33.801 --> 0:09:36.321 there was like allegations of abuse and then people were 0:09:36.321 --> 0:09:39.721 going back through old videos that they'd done, and the 0:09:39.761 --> 0:09:42.081 way that she spoke to the children, like she wouldn't 0:09:42.081 --> 0:09:45.161 give them food or make a child sleep on the 0:09:45.241 --> 0:09:48.441 floor as punishment. She was very like I think, quite 0:09:48.521 --> 0:09:51.721 conservative and very like strong about children need to be 0:09:51.761 --> 0:09:53.121 punished for their actions. 0:09:53.201 --> 0:09:56.481 And Ruby has an older daughter called Shari, and Shari 0:09:56.761 --> 0:09:59.761 obviously lived with her mum for a period of time 0:09:59.801 --> 0:10:01.881 and she's now come out. She's written a book. But 0:10:01.921 --> 0:10:05.801 her first thing was to go before Parliament in the studs, 0:10:05.881 --> 0:10:09.281 the House of Reps and actually addressed if you like, 0:10:09.361 --> 0:10:11.281 almost as a victim impact statement. 0:10:11.481 --> 0:10:14.721 And he's a part of that. Now, thank you. 0:10:14.681 --> 0:10:15.601 For having me today. 0:10:15.721 --> 0:10:19.241 My name is Shery Franky My mother Ruby Frankie is 0:10:19.241 --> 0:10:21.881 a prominent family blogger that was arrested last year for 0:10:21.961 --> 0:10:24.561 child abuse. I don't come today as a daughter of 0:10:24.561 --> 0:10:27.841 a felon, nor as a victim of an abnormally abusive mother. 0:10:28.441 --> 0:10:30.681 I come today as a victim of family blogging. 0:10:31.121 --> 0:10:33.201 My goal is not to present any idea of a 0:10:33.201 --> 0:10:35.761 solution to this problem, but to shed light on the 0:10:35.801 --> 0:10:39.361 ethical and monetary issues that come from being a child influencer. 0:10:40.121 --> 0:10:43.161 When children become stars in their family's online content, they 0:10:43.201 --> 0:10:46.441 become child influencers. It is more than just filming your 0:10:46.441 --> 0:10:49.241 family life and putting it online. It is a full 0:10:49.241 --> 0:10:54.161 time job with employees, business credit cards, managers, and marketing strategies. 0:10:54.641 --> 0:10:57.761 The difference between family blogging and a normal business, however, 0:10:57.881 --> 0:11:01.121 is that all the children are employees. Children from before 0:11:01.121 --> 0:11:03.281 they are born to the day they turn eighteen have 0:11:03.401 --> 0:11:06.841 become the stars of family business on YouTube, Instagram, and 0:11:06.881 --> 0:11:11.081 other social media platforms. Utah is specifically a hotspot for 0:11:11.161 --> 0:11:14.641 family content due to the LDS culture around family and 0:11:14.681 --> 0:11:16.881 the goal to share the Church with the world. We 0:11:16.921 --> 0:11:21.441 also have large families, which makes family content more lucrative. Specifically, 0:11:21.481 --> 0:11:24.601 many parents film their regular family life as an online 0:11:24.681 --> 0:11:26.081 video blog called of vlog. 0:11:26.721 --> 0:11:27.481 But I want to be. 0:11:27.441 --> 0:11:30.281 Clear that there is never ever a good reason for 0:11:30.361 --> 0:11:33.561 posting your children online for money or theme. There is 0:11:33.601 --> 0:11:36.441 no such thing as a moral or ethical family blogger. 0:11:37.921 --> 0:11:39.721 We reached out to Showeri to see if she'll come 0:11:39.761 --> 0:11:41.801 on the show because I think her perspective would be 0:11:41.841 --> 0:11:42.681 really interesting. 0:11:42.961 --> 0:11:46.601 Yeah, as the child, as a child who you know, 0:11:46.921 --> 0:11:51.561 was constantly filmed, who constantly had a camera in her face, 0:11:51.681 --> 0:11:55.481 who you know parts of her life was shared online 0:11:56.161 --> 0:11:59.921 without her consent, you know, because like can a child 0:11:59.961 --> 0:12:02.161 really consent to being on social media? 0:12:02.481 --> 0:12:04.121 And it's a really interesting question. 0:12:04.241 --> 0:12:06.201 I think that's where the reason we wanted to bring 0:12:06.281 --> 0:12:09.921 up this Ruby Frankie kais is because that's the question 0:12:10.041 --> 0:12:11.401 it pauses for us ROT. 0:12:12.561 --> 0:12:15.241 Today we are starting off our day the way we 0:12:15.321 --> 0:12:16.521 do every day. 0:12:16.721 --> 0:12:20.601 Now for the first time Ruby's eldest daughter, Sheeri, is 0:12:20.681 --> 0:12:23.481 telling her story. Sometimes I'll like see myself in the 0:12:23.481 --> 0:12:25.001 mirror and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I look 0:12:25.121 --> 0:12:27.761 like her or I sound like her, But I don't 0:12:27.801 --> 0:12:30.281 want to be anything like her. When I was younger, 0:12:30.521 --> 0:12:35.161 around like five or six, like Ruby was really physical like, 0:12:35.321 --> 0:12:36.921 you know, whether it was like a slap to the 0:12:36.961 --> 0:12:40.401 lip or slap to the cheek when I would practice 0:12:40.401 --> 0:12:42.761 a piano, you know, like her hand would slam, and 0:12:42.841 --> 0:12:44.761 like it was really scary. 0:12:44.801 --> 0:12:49.601 To my babies, my six little chicks. 0:12:51.721 --> 0:12:52.641 You are a part of me. 0:12:53.561 --> 0:12:55.561 Did you believe that she was apologetic? 0:12:56.241 --> 0:12:58.361 I think that she's as sorry as she can be. 0:12:58.721 --> 0:13:00.481 What she has done is so bad that I don't 0:13:00.521 --> 0:13:04.401 think her mind allows her to kind of fully comprehend the. 0:13:04.361 --> 0:13:05.281 Guilt of all that, and. 0:13:05.321 --> 0:13:10.841 So I think that she probably genuinely believed everything she said. 0:13:11.281 --> 0:13:12.241 I don't believe it, though. 0:13:18.121 --> 0:13:21.561 It's interesting that we're talking about this because someone put 0:13:21.801 --> 0:13:25.601 a post up and I haven't we have to approve everything, 0:13:25.961 --> 0:13:28.041 haven't approved it to go out yet, because I thought 0:13:28.121 --> 0:13:30.961 it'd be interesting for us to discuss it first. And 0:13:31.001 --> 0:13:34.601 I'm seeing a lot of people online really starting to 0:13:34.681 --> 0:13:36.961 talk about how we share our children online. A lot 0:13:37.001 --> 0:13:40.761 of influencers are starting to take their children offline. They're 0:13:40.801 --> 0:13:44.361 starting to talk out about it, and it's obviously something 0:13:44.441 --> 0:13:47.481 that I think is starting to be spoken of. So 0:13:47.561 --> 0:13:50.841 this person, this anonymous member in our Facebook group, they 0:13:50.881 --> 0:13:54.121 said this case is a perfect example, this case being 0:13:54.241 --> 0:13:58.521 Obviously the case yeah is a perfect example of child 0:13:58.601 --> 0:14:01.761 exploitation for money, which is one of the charges against 0:14:01.761 --> 0:14:04.481 this person. I know the government is working on stopping 0:14:04.561 --> 0:14:08.161 children under a certain age joining social media platforms, but 0:14:08.321 --> 0:14:11.001 what can be done to stop parents risking their child's 0:14:11.001 --> 0:14:15.561 safety to exploit them for money. In this instance, previous 0:14:15.601 --> 0:14:20.281 photos showed their home, car, school uniforms, etc. Their names 0:14:20.281 --> 0:14:23.721 are mentioned, and their daily activities. On one site, a 0:14:23.801 --> 0:14:26.761 member said that it took them fifteen or so minutes 0:14:26.801 --> 0:14:30.281 to find where they lived, the children's names, parents named, 0:14:30.321 --> 0:14:32.961 sibling names and other private details put in the daily 0:14:33.001 --> 0:14:36.441 post for anyone to see. What perfect tools for someone 0:14:36.481 --> 0:14:39.961 to abduct a child. Prompts on the site were subscribed 0:14:40.001 --> 0:14:42.841 for more photos. What photos were they? Photos of a 0:14:42.921 --> 0:14:47.081 child before such after brain surgery? Selling your child's privacy 0:14:47.161 --> 0:14:51.241 for seven dollars? Really, what parent would publish the personal 0:14:51.241 --> 0:14:54.601 photos of a child in such a vulnerable state. This 0:14:54.681 --> 0:14:58.441 raises another question is there any check on the subscribers? 0:14:58.561 --> 0:15:01.241 Are these influencers just interested in the money they can 0:15:01.281 --> 0:15:03.281 make or do they do a check on the potential 0:15:03.361 --> 0:15:05.961 subscribers as in like are they checking to make sure 0:15:06.001 --> 0:15:10.201 there's not widos that are exactly how do you know? 0:15:10.361 --> 0:15:13.041 How do you know someone's a wido from a Facebook profile? Micky, 0:15:13.081 --> 0:15:15.681 I think it's important to mention that you yourself, and 0:15:15.761 --> 0:15:17.401 I know you don't like this label, but I'm going 0:15:17.481 --> 0:15:19.721 to label it for a moment. If you're okay, you're 0:15:19.721 --> 0:15:22.321 a mummy blogger back in the day when you first 0:15:22.361 --> 0:15:24.721 got on socials, yes, and you definitely took pictures of 0:15:24.761 --> 0:15:26.441 your kids, yes, and you used. 0:15:26.321 --> 0:15:27.081 Them online yep. 0:15:27.201 --> 0:15:27.761 Absolutely. 0:15:27.961 --> 0:15:29.921 To go back to what you said earlier, this is 0:15:29.961 --> 0:15:33.921 not about shaming you. This is about bringing attention to it. 0:15:34.401 --> 0:15:37.881 What was the decision for you to stop using your 0:15:37.921 --> 0:15:39.041 kids on social. 0:15:39.401 --> 0:15:44.401 So there were two things that really niggled at my mind. 0:15:44.521 --> 0:15:47.881 A lot for starters, Yes, I was over sharing my 0:15:48.041 --> 0:15:50.921 daughter so much. I look back now and I think 0:15:51.361 --> 0:15:55.161 what was I doing? And because I think people begin 0:15:55.281 --> 0:15:57.641 doing it quite innocently, and a lot of people are like, 0:15:57.681 --> 0:16:00.801 whether you've got five followers or you've got five million followers, 0:16:00.841 --> 0:16:03.481 I think the reality is is do you really know 0:16:04.001 --> 0:16:06.681 who's following you? And even if it's like an uncle, like, 0:16:06.761 --> 0:16:10.161 it's happening not just online, it's happening within families and 0:16:10.281 --> 0:16:12.881 all of that. But I would share my kids online, 0:16:12.921 --> 0:16:17.201 and occasionally I would have people message me and go, oh, like, 0:16:17.281 --> 0:16:19.321 I don't want to be nasty, or this is just 0:16:19.361 --> 0:16:22.321 like coming from you know, someone who works in child protection. 0:16:22.601 --> 0:16:25.961 But maybe that's a bit too much to share of. 0:16:26.001 --> 0:16:26.921 Your child or whatever. 0:16:27.161 --> 0:16:29.121 So there were messages like that, which is why I 0:16:29.161 --> 0:16:31.761 think it's actually really helpful for you know, when people 0:16:31.761 --> 0:16:34.561 are saying things like this and maybe trying to call 0:16:34.641 --> 0:16:38.161 in influences and say, hey, like I really like what 0:16:38.201 --> 0:16:41.201 you do, but maybe you are over sharing your child 0:16:41.241 --> 0:16:43.681 a little bit. I don't think that's a bad thing. 0:16:43.881 --> 0:16:46.721 Because that was part of my wake up call. I 0:16:46.801 --> 0:16:50.081 kept thinking about consent, which is something that's really important 0:16:50.081 --> 0:16:53.081 to me and should be everybody. But I kept thinking, 0:16:53.481 --> 0:16:56.241 my kids can't consent to this, and am I sharing 0:16:56.641 --> 0:17:00.281 their energy? And am I sharing parts of them that 0:17:00.361 --> 0:17:02.441 they don't know about? They never said yes to this, 0:17:02.481 --> 0:17:04.521 They don't know the people who are commenting on it. 0:17:04.561 --> 0:17:06.361 And people can be seen next. 0:17:06.121 --> 0:17:09.600 Tuesdays online and say whatever they want. And that's fine 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.081 if it's to me, even as me I can barely cop. 0:17:11.961 --> 0:17:14.920 It, But how about a child you know? 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.200 And people on the internet that don't care if it's 0:17:17.241 --> 0:17:19.160 a child, or if it's an adult, they'll make the 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.961 same comments. So there was that aspect, just the consensual aspect. 0:17:23.561 --> 0:17:24.321 And then the. 0:17:24.321 --> 0:17:26.880 Thing that absolutely put me over the line was the 0:17:26.961 --> 0:17:30.441 safety I would be, you know, on stories posting, Oh 0:17:30.441 --> 0:17:32.401 we're going here, we're doing this today, we're blah blah 0:17:32.441 --> 0:17:35.001 blah blah. And then I got a letter in the 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.840 mail or a card in the mail from my estranged father, 0:17:38.961 --> 0:17:40.840 who I don't have anything to do with. I don't 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.640 talk to nothing, haven't for a very very long time. 0:17:44.521 --> 0:17:47.761 The start as he found my address, which was concerning 0:17:48.001 --> 0:17:49.600 in itself because we'd moved. 0:17:49.721 --> 0:17:51.361 He shouldn't have had my address. 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:57.120 And in the card he wrote about things that my 0:17:57.241 --> 0:17:58.120 daughter and I had done. 0:17:58.681 --> 0:18:00.001 Oh I saw that you went here. 0:18:00.441 --> 0:18:02.640 I saw that you were there, things that I haven't 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.360 had a conversation with. I hadn't had a conversation, nor 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.640 have I saying like, oh, yeah, you know, we did this, 0:18:08.721 --> 0:18:12.120 we've done that. He should not have had access to 0:18:12.201 --> 0:18:13.920 that information. And for a lot of us, you know, 0:18:13.961 --> 0:18:17.001 we've got roast tinted glasses on where we don't think 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:21.120 about people like that, people who will take all of 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.721 that information, who will take those photos and do things 0:18:24.761 --> 0:18:28.680 with them. Take the fact that you've shown enough information 0:18:28.761 --> 0:18:31.761 that they can figure out where you live, what school 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.120 your kids go to, when they're there, when they're at soccer, 0:18:35.241 --> 0:18:37.681 when they're at swimming, all of those things. 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.481 The reality is, are those people out there? 0:18:42.001 --> 0:18:45.361 And like, it's our job as parents to protect our kids, 0:18:46.001 --> 0:18:49.080 not like throw them to the wolves, you know. And 0:18:49.120 --> 0:18:51.921 again this comes from I think if we add any 0:18:52.001 --> 0:18:54.920 layer of shame to this, it's not helpful because a 0:18:54.921 --> 0:18:57.400 lot of us we're not doing it to be malicious. 0:18:57.481 --> 0:18:58.880 No one's doing it to be malicious. 0:18:58.921 --> 0:19:02.201 But I think it is so important that if we've 0:19:02.241 --> 0:19:06.880 got the government going children under sixteen can't have social media, 0:19:07.360 --> 0:19:10.281 where's the line? Then, where's the line of putting a 0:19:10.360 --> 0:19:11.480 child on social media? 0:19:12.120 --> 0:19:12.240 Well? 0:19:12.321 --> 0:19:15.400 I have children and we think about the same things. 0:19:15.681 --> 0:19:17.921 Well, and this is really interesting because we're at two 0:19:17.921 --> 0:19:19.161 different stages. 0:19:18.801 --> 0:19:22.160 Right year old, My kids go, do not post that? 0:19:22.961 --> 0:19:23.761 Yeah? 0:19:23.801 --> 0:19:26.760 And I go, okay, They're about to go on their 0:19:26.801 --> 0:19:30.721 semi formal yes. And I said to them, I really 0:19:30.761 --> 0:19:32.880 want to take a picture of you for your semi formal? 0:19:33.001 --> 0:19:36.441 Is that okay? And they went sure, And I said, 0:19:36.441 --> 0:19:39.001 I'm going to post it too. Is that Okay, yeah, 0:19:39.041 --> 0:19:42.761 sure they will have complete veto on any photo that 0:19:42.801 --> 0:19:44.961 goes up on them. But I can tell you when 0:19:45.001 --> 0:19:50.120