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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what.

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Speaker 3: I love that And I want to ask you something

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Speaker 3: just straight up because I think, you know, like with

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Speaker 3: the crimes that we're seeing in our youth today, like

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Speaker 3: they're really becoming quite ruthless. I think, you know, whatever

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Speaker 3: it may be, out of what choices this knife crime

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Speaker 3: and their shootings. You know, people don't realize, but they're

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Speaker 3: using a lot of our young people to do these

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Speaker 3: dirty work. And you know, you've got kids in there

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Speaker 3: that you know, and you would remember back in the day,

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Speaker 3: you know, like to be in Minda or something like that,

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Speaker 3: or Patterson or carry on, when it was just you know,

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Speaker 3: to have a murderer in there, you know, like I'm

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Speaker 3: talking back in the days, you know, like Mintran and

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Speaker 3: you know Michael Jong and you know all those boys

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Speaker 3: from Gleebear and there was a few boys that were done.

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Speaker 3: But today it's like pretty normal for kid to be

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Speaker 3: going in for stabbing, for murder or you know, things

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Speaker 3: like this. And I can't help but think that there'd

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Speaker 3: be a bit of ego and attitude with that, them

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Speaker 3: going in their feeling and thinking that they're the fucking shit.

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Speaker 2: How is it to talk to.

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Speaker 4: Us about what's funny because you know, our days used

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Speaker 4: to be gangs, different gangs, different nationalities and all that

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff. Right, I go in there, It's so

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Speaker 4: funny because I see the most odd bunch. They're all

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Speaker 4: co offenders, the most odd bunch.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, can I keep them?

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Speaker 2: All the curies get to stay together?

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Speaker 4: So they get they get moved there. Because we go

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Speaker 4: to every center, we know who'se co offenders with sure,

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Speaker 4: every young person that you see on the news, we

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Speaker 4: get to see them inside. You know, they at one

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Speaker 4: point they will go through. At one point they will

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Speaker 4: go through our program. And it's funny because you know,

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Speaker 4: back then it was very gang related, you know, culture related,

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Speaker 4: but now it's all about postcodes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't understand, so what because I'm sure everybody's

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Speaker 3: asking these same questions, And if anyone's qualified now to speak.

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Speaker 1: On it, it's you.

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Speaker 2: You really are.

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Speaker 1: You know, even now, I don't understand it.

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Speaker 4: But they at one point they segregated all the different

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Speaker 4: units based on their postcode. So you had all the

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Speaker 4: Mount durl boards on one side, you have all the

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Speaker 4: Campbelltown boys on one side, you had all like you know, yeah,

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Speaker 4: so they they were all in different units, right, because

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Speaker 4: depending on what postcode they are in. And it's so

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Speaker 4: funny because I go, you know the part of post codes, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I know. And the biggest, the biggest part of what

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Speaker 4: we do is we continue this mentoring out in the community,

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Speaker 4: right for these young people. So when once they get released,

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Speaker 4: we continue that mentoring out in the community. They come

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Speaker 4: to our gyms where we're working at and we give

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Speaker 4: them a training session, we catch up with them, and

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Speaker 4: the funny thing is some of them are like, I

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Speaker 4: can't go there because I'll probably get jumped at the

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Speaker 4: train station.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, God, are you guys fucking serious?

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Speaker 4: And that it's to that point some what comes to

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Speaker 4: just say, paramount of train station, the paramount of boys

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Speaker 4: are going to stab them just for the fact that

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Speaker 4: they're from a different postcode.

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Speaker 2: And this is the reality of it.

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Speaker 1: This is that's the reality, is the.

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Speaker 3: World that they're living in, this bubble that these young

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Speaker 3: people have put themselves in basically now because it is

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Speaker 3: by choice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the reality.

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Speaker 4: But the funny thing is once they come to once

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Speaker 4: I meet them, like, you know, you hear about their

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Speaker 4: stories on the media, right, and then you actually meet

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Speaker 4: them inside. They are completely different people that you can

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Speaker 4: understand the young kids. And when you thought you know

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Speaker 4: these you know, when these young people, you know, after

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Speaker 4: doing stabbings and all that stuff, they might be beating

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Speaker 4: the chairs and we've got a bit of pride.

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Speaker 1: They're not like that.

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Speaker 4: You know. At the start, we've had some you know,

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Speaker 4: some of them thinking that they're a little bit too

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Speaker 4: cool and they won't they won't connect. But we know

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Speaker 4: who the older guys are and they're all in our program.

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Speaker 4: So we've set it up so these older guys who

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Speaker 4: are like like sweepers sort of thing within their union

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Speaker 4: or are they just not sweepers, but they're.

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Speaker 2: Like what we used to call them the delegates.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of they're like kind of the delegates.

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Speaker 4: They're like the delegates, but they're not like racially segregated.

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Speaker 4: They're just like delegates because they're a little bit older

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Speaker 4: and they've got a little bit of a pool. So they

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Speaker 4: just love coming and training with us. So once they

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Speaker 4: come they come in, everyone else just comes in. They

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Speaker 4: go all right, okay, so this is a pretty cool program,

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Speaker 4: you know, And it's just like the first when we

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Speaker 4: first tell us stories straight from the get go.

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Speaker 1: We're straight away bonding with.

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Speaker 4: Them, with the young girls, it's a complete different story

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Speaker 4: really tell us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So, so the only center that holds our young females

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Speaker 4: in New South Wales is Reby.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's always had the females, gosh I remember, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Years ago.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So Rebe is down towards Campbelltown, so that your ads. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so they hold they hold boys from ten to fift

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Speaker 4: ten years old, so the really young ones they stay there,

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Speaker 4: and they hold the females as well.

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Speaker 3: So it used to be Yasma as well, but obviously

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Speaker 3: Yasma hasn't even existing anymore.

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Speaker 1: No, unless unless they've changed the name.

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Speaker 2: It was on PARAMOUNTA Road.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that that's now a pre released unit for

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Speaker 4: the suks. They changed the name. I can't remember what

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Speaker 4: they've changed changed, Serious Defenders. Yeah, it's the works release

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Speaker 4: unit now within the juvenile system. No corrections, Ah right, okay,

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Speaker 4: so that went through many hands. If it was it

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Speaker 4: was a women's prison, it started off with the jew

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Speaker 4: started off as a Juvi women.

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Speaker 3: It was because you had Minda and Yasma Yea and

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Speaker 3: that was pretty much in the city, that's where you went.

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Speaker 1: And obviously, yes, it's changed now.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So for the girls, it's really completely different. You've

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Speaker 4: got a mixed bunch over there. One girl will prove

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Speaker 4: is pretty much running the show, and if she doesn't

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Speaker 4: like it, then none of the girls gets to participate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's there's.

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Speaker 4: At one point the max that we've ever had in

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Speaker 4: one center was like ten girls. Right, So these are actual,

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Speaker 4: real serious offenders, and they don't like locking up young females.

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Speaker 3: So the one when you say serious offenders like and

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Speaker 3: I know we speak, we predominantly speak about male And

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Speaker 3: is this.

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Speaker 2: Been weird because we should? Well it is.

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Speaker 3: It's just naturally when you speak to jail, we instantly

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Speaker 3: go to male.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: But as you would see and know, the females are

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Speaker 3: quite ruthless as well. You know, what are some of

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Speaker 3: the crimes when you say serious crimes, same as the.

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Speaker 1: Men stabbing, A lot of them are like gang related,

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Speaker 1: post some gang related.

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Speaker 4: Some are habitual offenders, so they've got substance abuse issues,

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Speaker 4: consistently breaking, entering all the time, stanning car.

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Speaker 1: Doing arm robs period. Yeah, there's a lot a lot of.

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Speaker 4: Violence that comes into it as well. But when I

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Speaker 4: see a lot of these young girls they've been I

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Speaker 4: see them as victims, to be honest with you, They've

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Speaker 4: got some deep seated trauma, trauma like bad. And it's

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Speaker 4: so funny because we thought, you know, oh, yeah, the

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Speaker 4: girls are going to be the same as the boys,

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Speaker 4: you know, being very naive and going in with like

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Speaker 4: a bunch of men to run these programs, mentoring programs

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Speaker 4: for the girls. And what we did, what we didn't

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Speaker 4: realize was the core reason why these young girls are

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Speaker 4: in custody and have that trauma was because of amount

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Speaker 4: amount influence.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I have to agree that.

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Speaker 4: With and and and We're just we just had to

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Speaker 4: sit back and go listen, we might have to rethink

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Speaker 4: what we're doing with the girls with a bunch of

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Speaker 4: boys going in trying to run these programs, you know.

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Speaker 4: So that's why we were thinking straight, we need to

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Speaker 4: get females on board. We need to get female mentors

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Speaker 4: on board.

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Speaker 3: You can see that though, Joe and I get it

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Speaker 3: because while you know, especially a young woman who's just

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Speaker 3: had a horrific start to life at the hands of

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Speaker 3: a male, how is she going to ever listen or

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Speaker 3: respect exactly another male, especially someone's coming in there trying

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Speaker 3: to well, I guess help obviously, but you know still

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Speaker 3: you've got to be a little bit straight up and

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Speaker 3: blunt with them. You know, you've got to be that

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Speaker 3: sort of strong male in their presence. You're an educator,

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Speaker 3: you're there to provide a program. So there's no like

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Speaker 3: I said, there's no bullshit. You've got to you know,

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Speaker 3: that's how it is. And the next minute she's like, well,

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Speaker 3: book up, you.

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Speaker 2: Talk to me a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: I'm really sort of inquisitive about what you said about

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Speaker 3: one female can just yeap.

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Speaker 4: So there's always the head on cho in the only

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Speaker 4: because it's such a small unit.

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Speaker 2: So like in the younger girls have still got the top.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's always the biggest girl, and we don't

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Speaker 4: know what goes on during the week in that girl, right,

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Speaker 4: So they might be punching on and hating each other,

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Speaker 4: but they made.

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Speaker 1: To all come to this program. Yeah, so they go.

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Speaker 1: You have to all go.

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Speaker 4: So now we're trying to get them to you know,

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Speaker 4: talk and stuff, and it's absolute silence. I still remember

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Speaker 4: my first program that I did at Rebe. I came

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Speaker 4: out traumatized. But we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna restructure this.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna think differently about how we run the girls

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Speaker 4: programs because I remember that I won't mention the name,

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Speaker 4: but the head honcho. At the time, we're sitting down,

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Speaker 4: none of the girls are talking, and you can tell

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Speaker 4: some of the younger ones wanted to get involved, but

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Speaker 4: she was just giving them the look and they were

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Speaker 4: all just like.

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Speaker 3: Had the specific and in for like a violent sort

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Speaker 3: of crime.

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Speaker 1: Crime.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think it was something to do

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Speaker 4: with the kidnapping and something else.

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Speaker 1: And she was asking me, she was like, oh, why.

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Speaker 4: Is your feet so big? Why is your shoes so big?

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Speaker 4: I was like, I don't know, since they designed the shoes.

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Speaker 4: And she goes, oh, you shave your legs?

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Speaker 1: Are you gay?

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Speaker 4: And I was like, man, it's fucking like a bit

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Speaker 4: more aerodynamic. In my head, I'm thinking when I snog

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Speaker 4: kick you nu.

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Speaker 3: But like she was just bluntly just rude, straight up

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Speaker 3: just rude, trying to put you on show sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: They put you but they play a lot of mind games.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, god, this is completely different to

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Speaker 4: how we run programs with the boys. With the boys,

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Speaker 4: it's like you lay down the hammer, you tell a story.

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Speaker 4: This is who we are. Let's do our training session.

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Speaker 4: We all bond with the girls. It's like you just

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Speaker 4: can't get them to do anything. You know, we tell

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Speaker 4: a story, they'll listen. They'll listen. You might go in

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Speaker 4: some girls is but then one girl would like take

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Speaker 4: over and I should act like she's like, you know,

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Speaker 4: running the whole program herself, and she's just yapping on,

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Speaker 4: like what is going on? It is completely different. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's a complete different vibe.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, be tough. It was tough.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't to be really frustrating because you've still got

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Speaker 3: to remain composed and profession

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Speaker 1: To hate you jump