WEBVTT - Why the major parties won’t fix the domestic violence crisis

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Since the election was announced just five weeks ago, at

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<v Speaker 1>least five women have been killed by their partners in Australia,

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<v Speaker 1>yet this crisis barely rated to mention in either of

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<v Speaker 1>the two major parties campaigns. Doctor Tracy Westerman is a

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<v Speaker 1>Nyama woman from the Pilber region of Western Australia. She's

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<v Speaker 1>been working as a psychologist in remote communities for twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five years, and she says where she works the silence

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<v Speaker 1>from politicians has been especially deafening. For Aboriginal women. The

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<v Speaker 1>threat of domestic violence is significantly higher, and yet the

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<v Speaker 1>conclusions our political leaders draw about why that is are

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<v Speaker 1>all wrong Today, Doctor Tracy Westerman, and what's really fueling

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<v Speaker 1>intimate partner violence in Aboriginal communities are what needs to

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<v Speaker 1>change to stop women being killed. It's Friday May too.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been working as a psychologist set indigenous communities your

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<v Speaker 1>entire career. Can you tell us about your experience working

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<v Speaker 1>with women who have been victims of domestic violence?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things

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<v Speaker 2>that the Aboriginal women are obviously we know by the

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<v Speaker 2>data the most overrepresented in the intimate partner violence statistics,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I think as a statistic that says thirty

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<v Speaker 2>five times more likely to be victims of intimate partner violence,

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<v Speaker 2>and that certainly hasn't decreased over time, In fact, it's

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<v Speaker 2>actually gotten worse. The thing that I know, obviously is

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<v Speaker 2>that Indigenous women feel consistently let down by the system.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think you know, what we're actually saying a

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<v Speaker 2>lot is Indigenous women often when they go into systems

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<v Speaker 2>like police and welfare, for example, they often responded to

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<v Speaker 2>in a way that increase the likelihood that they will

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<v Speaker 2>not go back to those systems because often, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>with police, we know that there's significant evidence that tells

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<v Speaker 2>us that when Indigenous women go to the polace for help,

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<v Speaker 2>they are more likely significally more likely to be erroneously

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<v Speaker 2>labeled as to perpetrator rather than the victim. The other

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<v Speaker 2>thing we know, of course, with child protection systems is

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<v Speaker 2>that a massively growing cohort of Indigenous child removals is

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<v Speaker 2>based on Indigenous women who are actually victims of into

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<v Speaker 2>a partner violence having children removed as a result of

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<v Speaker 2>exposing their children to violence. And so the big concern

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<v Speaker 2>that we have here is that if you go to

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<v Speaker 2>the systems that are supposed to protect and help you

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<v Speaker 2>and they perpetuate the abuse, then who do you go

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<v Speaker 2>to for help? Thanks everyone, and thanks for coming to Cambridge.

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<v Speaker 1>So for Andrew who lives here, and so, given what

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<v Speaker 1>you've just described, how did you feel when the Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister committed the Labor Party to end gender based violence

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<v Speaker 1>within a generation.

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<v Speaker 2>We know that ending gender based violence is a priority

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<v Speaker 2>for the common Wealth and for every single jurisdiction. Oh look,

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're sort of retric It's like the zero

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<v Speaker 2>suicide rhetory right in constet of goal. But unless you

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<v Speaker 2>actually understand that, you need to one identify the most

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<v Speaker 2>highest risk communities and those families that are generation carrying

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<v Speaker 2>risk are actually identified. And the second thing is that

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<v Speaker 2>the government literally are not funding prevention, so we need

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<v Speaker 2>to get the data right. The australne Via Statistics did

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest research into intimate partner violence in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>three in the country, and Indigenous women were excluded from

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<v Speaker 2>that research. How do you forget Indigenous women right? What

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<v Speaker 2>we know from that research was that most women stay

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<v Speaker 2>with violent partners because they don't have the financial needs

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<v Speaker 2>to leave. Now, that's common because if there's emotional abuse,

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<v Speaker 2>physical abuse is also financial abuse because it's about control.

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<v Speaker 2>So you've actually got the most vulnerable people in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the lowest socio economic category in this country, and

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<v Speaker 2>then you've got cashleist welfare cards right that actually limits

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<v Speaker 2>their ability to leave even more. Have the goal to

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<v Speaker 2>call caciist welfare cards violence prevention. There is no program

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<v Speaker 2>in this country that's going into high risk communities and

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<v Speaker 2>actually addressing the causal pathways to why someone is one

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerable is a victim, and two why someone becomes a

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<v Speaker 2>perpetrator of violence. So what I'm talking about here is

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<v Speaker 2>programs that are on the complex treatments side of the

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<v Speaker 2>equation and things that I spend pretty much all day

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<v Speaker 2>every day training people to be able to do. Governments,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, have never mobilized an Indigenous intimate partner violence

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<v Speaker 2>program into the Northern Territory, for example.

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<v Speaker 1>So our Aboriginal stakeholders being worked with spoken to the

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<v Speaker 1>development of, say the Labor Party strategy. Do you feel

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<v Speaker 1>like you've been listened to?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Look, I think what tends to happen is when

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<v Speaker 2>I talk to government and politicians. They literally don't understand

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<v Speaker 2>their subject matter. Well, people don't understand the definition prevention.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's really it's frustrating for me as someone who's

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<v Speaker 2>a subject matter expertter on, there's an Indigenous woman from

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<v Speaker 2>the Pilgram. I've spent a long time, you know, working

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<v Speaker 2>with complex trauma and issues in communities that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're not actually consulting with me at all, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>not For example, the grass for its services that are

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<v Speaker 2>providing those real important support services to communities are now

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<v Speaker 2>also being set upon as if they're not providing the

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<v Speaker 2>services that critical services that community need. There is a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of rhetoric that blames the victim a lot, and

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, it looks it's a shame that people aren't

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<v Speaker 2>actually being listened to that actually have really good, clear

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<v Speaker 2>subject matter expertise and what is a really complex issue.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you have a guess as to why the government

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<v Speaker 1>or the bureaucrats in the government aren't coming to speak

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<v Speaker 1>to you about what is such an appalling and pressing issue.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think you know, if I had a dollar

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<v Speaker 2>for every time I ask that question Blande journalist, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and look that's I always say this up to government

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<v Speaker 2>to respond to but look, I've got no answer for it.

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<v Speaker 2>I've got no answer. Well, I think governments actually literally

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<v Speaker 2>need to answer that question.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break. The real reason governments keep having.

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<v Speaker 3>Inquiries, Hi Ruby Jones. Here, seven Am tells stories that

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<v Speaker 1>Tracy just senter Price has claimed that violence is inherent

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<v Speaker 1>in Aboriginal cultures.

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<v Speaker 4>Suggests that violence is not used in traditional culture. Related

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<v Speaker 4>to traditional culture and not impacting the rates of violence

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<v Speaker 4>we see in communities and interpersonal violence now is to

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<v Speaker 4>gas light the Australian public.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about what the opposition's plans are when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to this particular field. What have you picked

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<v Speaker 1>up from the opposition in terms of the way they're

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<v Speaker 1>approaching the prevalence of intimate partner violence within indigenous communities.

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<v Speaker 2>So I say this quite a lot that violence is

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<v Speaker 2>not a black person issue. It's a human issue. So

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<v Speaker 2>when you make violence about culture, then what you're doing

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<v Speaker 2>is you're making systems racially profiling often the wrong perpetrators.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's sexually what happens when you portray violence as

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<v Speaker 2>just inherently in the Aboriginal culture. What's the solution? What's

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<v Speaker 2>the solution? So the solution is assimilation. Right, if the

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<v Speaker 2>culture is the bad guy, if the Aboriginal culture is evil, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it is the cause of violence. The solution is an assimilation.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think when you link, you know, culture with violence,

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<v Speaker 2>and you actually are really clearly, you're actually cruly clearly

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<v Speaker 2>stating that violence is an enter within the Aboriginal culture

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<v Speaker 2>that never ends well in terms of it doesn't provide

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<v Speaker 2>us with any opportunities for prevention. All it does is

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<v Speaker 2>it demonizes and stereotypes, and it takes what is an

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly complex issue to such a reductionist factor that you

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<v Speaker 2>don't actually ensure ultimately that victims are safe. That's actually

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<v Speaker 2>really concerning. And the other thing that's concerning is all

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<v Speaker 2>we're hearing is really about indigenous organizations and the need

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<v Speaker 2>to order indigenous organizations as if indigenous organizations aren't actually

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<v Speaker 2>providing really effective grassroots programs. But yeah, that's the concern

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<v Speaker 2>that's not just shared, that's just not mine. Its shared

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<v Speaker 2>by a lot of Indigenous leaders.

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<v Speaker 1>And we know the idea isn't based on evidence. So

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<v Speaker 1>if we look at the evidence, what can we learn

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<v Speaker 1>about how and why domestic violence happens in Indigenous communities?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's difficult because based if people don't really

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<v Speaker 2>understand the real complex dynamics of intimate partner violence. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>So I look, as example, as a psychologist, the most

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<v Speaker 2>dangerous offenders or what we refer to as opportunistic offenders,

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<v Speaker 2>and what they're actually doing is they're trying to find

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<v Speaker 2>the most vulnerable victim, so the victim that has the

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<v Speaker 2>most power differential between the perpetrator and the victim. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>there is no more vulnerable victim in this entire country

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<v Speaker 2>than an Indigenous woman on the remote community. And so

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<v Speaker 2>what the statistics have consistently told us is that Indigenous

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<v Speaker 2>women have certain risk characteristics that make them significantly more

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerable victims. We also need to understand that the data

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<v Speaker 2>in this country, there is literally no database that actually

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<v Speaker 2>links the ethnicity of the perpetrator with the ethnicity of

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<v Speaker 2>the victim. Right, So there's literally no database that says, ay,

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<v Speaker 2>our Aboriginal woman who's a victim of violence, was your

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<v Speaker 2>perpetrator an Aboriginal man. So there is literally no data

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<v Speaker 2>in this country that actually establishes the ethnicity of the

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<v Speaker 2>perpetrator with the ethnicity of the victim. Now we look

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<v Speaker 2>to the abs sense. The last one tells us that

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<v Speaker 2>seventy two percent of Indigenous women are married to non

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<v Speaker 2>Indigenous men.

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<v Speaker 1>The coalition had thirteen inquiries into abuse in Indigenous communities

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<v Speaker 1>during its last term. What's your view and why we

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<v Speaker 1>continue to have inquiries rather than seeing action on the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence that we already have and things like you've just

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<v Speaker 1>laid out for us.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, you know government's love inquiries, right, let's have

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<v Speaker 2>another inquiry and you look at you know, my area

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<v Speaker 2>of expertise predominantly a suicide prevention. We've had four government

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<v Speaker 2>inquiries into the suicides in Wa, my own home state

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<v Speaker 2>that has four times the child suicide right of the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of the country. The latest data tells us that

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<v Speaker 2>the Kimberly continues to have the highest rates of Indigenous

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<v Speaker 2>suicide in the country by country mile. So that's what

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<v Speaker 2>inquiries give us. You give us nothing. What actually happens

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<v Speaker 2>is government love it because they feel you buy some time.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll say, we'd love to be able to respond, but

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<v Speaker 2>however we have to wait for that inquiry to finish. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 2>two years later, the violence is getting worse, the suicides

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<v Speaker 2>are getting worse, and everything ultimately stays the same.

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<v Speaker 1>If we were to look into a world where politicians

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<v Speaker 1>were actually going to follow the evidence and do something

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<v Speaker 1>about these unacceptably high rates of First Nations women being

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<v Speaker 1>killed by their partners, what needs to change.

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<v Speaker 2>So what needs to change first is we need to

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<v Speaker 2>geomap the data. And that's pretty simple to do, right,

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<v Speaker 2>We've sort of almost got that. So we need to

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<v Speaker 2>actually understand where the communities are that are most overrepresented.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've got about ten communities that we know in

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<v Speaker 2>the Northern Territory that are consistently overrepresented. Then what you

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<v Speaker 2>need to do is you need to go into those

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<v Speaker 2>communities and geomap the highest risk families. So what you'll

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<v Speaker 2>find this is what I found in terms of nearly

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years of working in high risk communities you go

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<v Speaker 2>into any region, So look at out of springs, you'd

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<v Speaker 2>find that about ten to fifteen families at best for

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<v Speaker 2>making up the bulk of the service provision. Right. Then

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<v Speaker 2>what you'll find is if you work in this industry

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<v Speaker 2>for long enough, you'll have a client, and that client

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<v Speaker 2>will have children, and one of those children will become

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<v Speaker 2>your client. And so that's what I mean in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of actually addressing the generational transmission of trauma and risk

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<v Speaker 2>is that trauma feeds trauma and so people like me

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<v Speaker 2>know that, and we're going there to actually, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>mobilize resources into those really identifiable families that are actually

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<v Speaker 2>passing one generational risk because what's actually happening is they

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<v Speaker 2>are making up the bulk of the statistics. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>not all Aboriginal people in our springs are violent. You're

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<v Speaker 2>probably looking at a couple of dozen Indigenous people that

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<v Speaker 2>are making up the bulk of the intimate partner violent statistics,

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<v Speaker 2>as you are with suicide prevention, as you are with

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<v Speaker 2>child removals. And that's the thing in terms of why

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<v Speaker 2>governments are frustrating because they don't take a clear, scientific,

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<v Speaker 2>data based, an outcome based response to these issues.

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<v Speaker 1>So Finally, doctor Westerman, given the rates of women dying

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<v Speaker 1>in this country, why do you think that it is

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<v Speaker 1>that this crisis barely rates and mention during the election campaign.

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<v Speaker 2>The fact is that Indigenous women get no attention when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to being victims of violence. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that I get a little bit frustrated around

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<v Speaker 2>is sometimes there's this retoric that there's this silence around

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<v Speaker 2>Indigenous violence and Indigenous communities, and people say that quite a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>but Indigenous people have been screaming about this for decades,

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<v Speaker 2>marching in the streets. There are incredible women who are

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<v Speaker 2>CEOs of you, violence prevention organizations and shelters and all

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<v Speaker 2>those sorts of things, and men as well, Indigenous men

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<v Speaker 2>as well, who have for decades said we need to

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<v Speaker 2>do something about the violence. It's not about the silence,

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<v Speaker 2>it's about indifference to the screening.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Westerman, thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, the Coalition has revealed their costings

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<v Speaker 1>just two days before the federal election, which they say

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<v Speaker 1>shows the budget would be ten billion dollars better off

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<v Speaker 1>under their government. The costings revealed that the savings mostly

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<v Speaker 1>come from cutting forty one thousand Canberra based public service jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>On the other side of the budget line, the coalition

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<v Speaker 1>pledges twenty one billion dollars in defense, spending eight point

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<v Speaker 1>five billion on Medicare, and just over one billion allowing

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<v Speaker 1>first home buyers to claim mortgage interest on their tax returns.

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<v Speaker 1>And former Vice President Kamala Harris is given a defiant

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<v Speaker 1>public speech just as President Trump celebrates his first one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred days in office. In her first major address in

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<v Speaker 1>front of a crowd of Democrats in San Francisco, Harris

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<v Speaker 1>criticized Trump's policies, urging Americans not to be fooling to

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<v Speaker 1>thinking Trump is chaotic, but rather enacting an agenda that

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<v Speaker 1>has been decades in the making. She also urged Americans

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<v Speaker 1>to keep standing up for democracy. Harris is reportedly considering

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<v Speaker 1>a return to politics. This has been seven am. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for listening, and we'll be providing you with election coverage

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 1>over the weekend, including from the heart of Anthony Alberanese's

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.760
<v Speaker 1>election night function. So tune in and tell your friends