Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never
Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. This one's
Speaker 1: a bit strange because I'm not sure if it should
Speaker 1: be called Eye Catch Killers or The Clink. I've been
Speaker 1: invited up to Brisbane to sit down and have a
Speaker 1: chat with Brent Simpson, host of the very successful podcasts
Speaker 1: The Clink. Brent's story is a little bit different from
Speaker 1: mine in that Brent was a sergeant at arms with
Speaker 1: an outlaw motorcycle gang and I was a detective inspector
Speaker 1: at the gang Squad, so yeah, we shouldn't like each other.
Speaker 1: But Brent invited me to come up to his studio
Speaker 1: and I thought I should take up the challenge. But
Speaker 1: I got to say, Brent ambush me. I thought it
Speaker 1: was going to be a friendly chat, but Brent obviously
Speaker 1: had some things he wanted to get off his chest
Speaker 1: about the relationship between the world he knew and the
Speaker 1: world that I inhabited as a cop. I think you're
Speaker 1: going to enjoy it a little bit different from what
Speaker 1: we normally have on I catch killers. Brent's throwing a
Speaker 1: bit my way, and I'd like to think I threw
Speaker 1: a bit back at him. But in the end we'd
Speaker 1: found some common ground and it's a really interesting chat
Speaker 1: with two people that come from different sides of the law,
Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2: My name's Brent Simpson. I'm the host of the Clink
Speaker 2: podcast Stories of Redemption. I was a career criminal, drug
Speaker 2: importer and involved in bike clubs.
Speaker 1: Gary Jubilin's my name. I was a cop for over
Speaker 1: thirty years in New South Wales Police. The majority of
Speaker 1: that time was spent in homicide I now hosts a
Speaker 1: podcast series called Eye Catch Killers.
Speaker 2: What brings us here, Well, let's just put it on
Speaker 2: the table. You're Gary Jubilant, the man that has a
Speaker 2: true crime podcast that likes to talk to ex crims
Speaker 2: and people that basically have some sort of background with
Speaker 2: the law. My podcast talks about stories of redemption, and
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, mate, I wanted to sit
Speaker 2: down with you today and actually do something no one's
Speaker 2: done before and put the gloves on rather than take
Speaker 2: them off, because I think it's about time the two
Speaker 2: blakes like ourselves had a no bullshit conversation about what
Speaker 2: truly goes on behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: All right, well, I haven't got a problem with that.
Speaker 1: Wasn't sure which way it was going to go, but
Speaker 1: let's do it.
Speaker 2: Well, you got invited up here, and firstly, I appreciate
Speaker 2: you taking the time to come up here. And yeah,
Speaker 2: fair enough. I bullshitted and said that it was coming
Speaker 2: up to do a joint I guess podcast for both
Speaker 2: of us. But I thought about it and I thought, no,
Speaker 2: fuck that fuck. Okay, you know, when has anyone ever
Speaker 2: sat down with you and truly had it out with you?
Speaker 2: And I guess here I am ready to have a crackback.
Speaker 2: So for everybody out there listening, this is going to
Speaker 2: be something a little bit different. I think to your
Speaker 2: podcasts and that my podcast has had, and I think
Speaker 2: the listeners out there would like to know a little
Speaker 2: bit more about the who's and the whys. Why did
Speaker 2: you for starters? Why would you want to be a cop?
Speaker 1: Okay, well, bullshit off the table, then yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: we're going. I can tell you why I wanted to
Speaker 1: be a cop. I didn't join to do something good
Speaker 1: for society. I joined because it looked like an exciting
Speaker 1: job for me. I didn't have a problem with enforcing rules.
Speaker 1: If rules are there, they're there for a reason. I
Speaker 1: joined it just for the excitement. But while I found
Speaker 1: Brent as I was doing it, I think I was
Speaker 1: doing some good, good stuff.
Speaker 2: You're saying, enjoy it for the excitement. The excitement, what
Speaker 2: what's the excitement of locking people up? Like? I get it,
Speaker 2: And I'll give you credit where credit's due. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to take it away from you because I think
Speaker 2: what you have done in the latter part of your career,
Speaker 2: I don't know too many people that could have actually
Speaker 2: gone through those things. There's traumatic situations, the cases that
Speaker 2: you worked on, and the credit to you working in
Speaker 2: a space where you brought pedophiles to the surface. You
Speaker 2: expose them missing beautiful young children. Mate. Look, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to sit here and say that that in any way,
Speaker 2: shape or form is something that you know. I'm again
Speaker 2: because I commend that that takes a lot of courage.
Speaker 2: But I also too, as someone who's dealt with a
Speaker 2: lot of ship cops over the years and copped a
Speaker 2: lot of shit from them. Why what do you get
Speaker 2: out of What do you get out of chasing bikes
Speaker 2: or career criminals? That are you know? What is it?
Speaker 1: No, I'm happy you asked that question because I want
Speaker 1: to answer it. When I first started in the cops,
Speaker 1: I was naive, young, ignorant, as we all are when
Speaker 1: we're young fellas and young women. But the longer I
Speaker 1: stayed in the cops, in the area of work, I
Speaker 1: gravitated towards as a criminal investigator. I know your background
Speaker 1: as a bikey like, yeah, you guys, as part of
Speaker 1: the charter, you don't like cops, you don't talk to cops.
Speaker 2: I gets made us sick. I mean, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, there was nothing worse than having a
Speaker 2: copper kicking your front fucking doors in front of your kids.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Rip your house to pieces,
Speaker 2: tell your missus to go sit in the corner, shutow mouth.
Speaker 2: Talk about the way that we speak to women and
Speaker 2: children today as men, and all this sort of shit.
Speaker 2: And you know, like I get it, there's a way
Speaker 2: of things to be executed and done. And obviously intel
Speaker 2: that comes in that these places may have firearms, could
Speaker 2: be violent offenders, what have you. I get all that,
Speaker 2: but take that out on me, don't take that out
Speaker 2: on my family.
Speaker 1: I make this point. I make this point because I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not going to defend cops across the board,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to throw cops under the bus
Speaker 1: across the board. There's some good cops and there's some
Speaker 1: bad cops. Can you vouch for every member of an OMCG.
Speaker 2: No, And at the end of the day, I'm not
Speaker 2: here to vouch for anybody bar myself as you are,
Speaker 2: and look I to this day, you know, and I
Speaker 2: swear by it. I don't personally have any involvement in
Speaker 2: that space anymore. I don't live my life around crime
Speaker 2: and outlaw motorcycle clubs. I still do have a lot
Speaker 2: of respect for a lot of members, absolutely because I
Speaker 2: know that they are genuinely good humans. I think, like
Speaker 2: everything in life, you know, we're judged by whom we
Speaker 2: associate with. Do I think that every man is a
Speaker 2: bad man? Absolutely nice? Like you go to a jail.
Speaker 2: Do you think that everybody in a jail, everybody that's
Speaker 2: been locked up, is just fucking shit? Do you think
Speaker 2: that they're bad? Because I know for a fact that
Speaker 2: they're not.
Speaker 1: No. And look when I say have changed my mind,
Speaker 1: I'd say I've opened my mind rather than change my
Speaker 1: mind when I joined the cops, and I bring it back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're going to do anything in life, at least
Speaker 1: evolve as you go through life, learn lessons. When I
Speaker 1: joined the cops, it was pretty black and white for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: bad guys, good guys. You know, we were dressed in blue.
Speaker 1: The bad guys we chased and put them in jail.
Speaker 1: Move onto the next thing. But there's more that you
Speaker 1: can do in policing like this. I want to justify
Speaker 1: police and I understand where you're coming from. And if
Speaker 1: you've had your personal experiences as you talk. I had
Speaker 1: a CAD when I was in the cops, and maybe
Speaker 1: you understand this. I'd go after you, and i'd go
Speaker 1: after you hard. I make no apologies for it. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't go after your family. I wouldn't humiliate you in
Speaker 1: front of your kids.
Speaker 2: That's not And how many years did you spend in
Speaker 2: the police force?
Speaker 1: Over thirty five thirty So.
Speaker 2: You're obviously involved in organized crime and all that sort
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 1: The majority of my career was as a besides tactical policing,
Speaker 1: was also major crime, major crime.
Speaker 2: So therefore, anyone like myself with a background OMCG. Organized crime, importation,
Speaker 2: any of this sort of major crime, robbery squad and
Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff, you would have had a
Speaker 2: hand in. Yeah, so there would you not say that
Speaker 2: there are heavy handed tactics that police do use that
Speaker 2: do then affect family members.
Speaker 1: There's consequences, there's consequences by your actions. I wouldn't set
Speaker 1: out to humiliate a family member, to upset children. I
Speaker 1: think there's a nogo there in my book, and.
Speaker 2: No go in that book across the board or you know,
Speaker 2: in any underworld style of live.
Speaker 1: So I put it this way, if if there's family there.
Speaker 1: I used to hate if I'm locking up someone like you,
Speaker 1: if the parents are there or someone's there treating with dignity.
Speaker 1: And it was told to me, and this is this
Speaker 1: is where I'm saying, Brent, I've learned. I'm not making
Speaker 1: any apologies for anything I've done the cops, but I
Speaker 1: work closely with Sarah yure, a forensic psychologists on some
Speaker 1: a lot of homicide investigations, and i'd rad life. I'd
Speaker 1: go off half beat and say this blake's done this,
Speaker 1: he must be a shithead, and yeah, a bad guy.
Speaker 1: And she was at pain to explain to me just
Speaker 1: because someone does something bad doesn't necessarily make them a
Speaker 1: bad person. Yeah, I'm a bit slow on the uptake,
Speaker 1: but that started gradually working its way into my mind,
Speaker 1: and I saw that people do make mistakes. We all
Speaker 1: make mistakes, and I've made mistakes. Yeah, I live with them.
Speaker 1: I learned by them. I don't judge everyone, but for
Speaker 1: me to slam all Bikis or to you to slam
Speaker 1: all cops, I think we've got to break it down
Speaker 1: because I'm not going to vouch for every cop, but
Speaker 1: I will vouch for the ones that I know, there's
Speaker 1: the way I say in policing, I've met some of
Speaker 1: the most impressive people in my life and some of
Speaker 1: the most drop kicks in my life within that organization.
Speaker 1: The antagonism between omcgs and cops. I was in the
Speaker 1: gang squad. I was a detective inspector in the gang
Speaker 1: squad right around the time just set the period of
Speaker 1: time where that stuff happened between the common Cero's and
Speaker 1: the Hells Angels at the airport. So I saw what
Speaker 1: was going on, I think, and you might have a
Speaker 1: different view. There was a perception that what goes on
Speaker 1: in OMCG gangs stays within the gangs and innocent people
Speaker 1: don't get caught up. That's where the line was crossed,
Speaker 1: and I think it changed the landscape forever in law
Speaker 1: enforcement and omcg's And that ship went down in the airport.
Speaker 1: You can't have people bashed like that in a public,
Speaker 1: public place, and that changed the landscape. But I during
Speaker 1: my career, like working gang squad or when I was
Speaker 1: in homicide paths across with CG members, I've got to say,
Speaker 1: I sit down and quite often there's a bit of
Speaker 1: respect for the way that they live their life, so
Speaker 1: there's not that antagonism. But when if you're coming at
Speaker 1: me as in fuck you you're a cop, we hate cops, well,
Speaker 1: stupid me is going to go, well, fuck you, I
Speaker 1: hate you too, and it escalates that way. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think it serves either side very well.
Speaker 2: I know for me personally, and I make this fairly clear,
Speaker 2: I am and have no longer been a part of
Speaker 2: OMCG lifestyle now for a long time. I think twenty
Speaker 2: and ten twenty eleven was my final days of ever
Speaker 2: donning a set of colors. You know, as I said,
Speaker 2: to this day, still hold a lot of regard and
Speaker 2: respect for a lot of great men whom I grew
Speaker 2: up with as seniors or you know, people I looked
Speaker 2: up to. Someone who didn't have family, who didn't have brothers,
Speaker 2: who was brought around a strong brotherhood and a camaraderie.
Speaker 2: I can't speak for today, and I'm not about to
Speaker 2: speak for today, so I make no words negative or
Speaker 2: positive in reference to how things are structured today. I'm
Speaker 2: only speaking from my perspective of when I was what
Speaker 2: I see today, I don't agree with a lot of it.
Speaker 2: You talk about crossing that line. I feel that the
Speaker 2: lines got crossed well and truly some time ago. To
Speaker 2: be specific. I'm not going to sort of sit here
Speaker 2: and throw those dates or times or actions into place,
Speaker 2: because I don't feel that that's something that I need
Speaker 2: to touch on. But I have to agree that the
Speaker 2: days of you know, publicly taking action for you know,
Speaker 2: things that are happening within certain spaces, they were always
Speaker 2: done out of mind, out of sight, so to speak.
Speaker 2: It was never involved with women, it was never involved
Speaker 2: with children, was never done within a workplace. Today, I
Speaker 2: don't think that those values align. I will say that much.
Speaker 2: And once again, that's just me seeing things as they are.
Speaker 2: That's not me speaking factually because I'm not involved in
Speaker 2: the lifestyle. You're an excope. You know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of things that we're seeing today that the way that
Speaker 2: the police are dealing with organized crime very very different
Speaker 2: to obviously the time when you were actively in the
Speaker 2: force and me actively as a club member. I mean,
Speaker 2: how do you see that today and where it's at.
Speaker 1: I got to say, and this is not swinging a
Speaker 1: vote here for law enforcement, but I reckon that would
Speaker 1: be a hard gig being a crook trying to make
Speaker 1: a dollar days with technology the way it is seen,
Speaker 1: what's happened now. I don't know that they'll shift their
Speaker 1: focus when I say they are talking collectively. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be OMCG, any sort of organized crime situation,
Speaker 1: shift their attention on how they're going to do it.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't like to be trying to commit a
Speaker 1: crime these days. I think the pendulum swung in favor
Speaker 1: of law enforcement with all the technology. You walk out
Speaker 1: on the street now and yeah, we can pretty well
Speaker 1: track you.
Speaker 2: I totally agree, And to be honest with you, it
Speaker 2: fathoms me because I sit back now and you know
Speaker 2: you often ponder on the how's the wires and the waves,
Speaker 2: and to me, when you weigh it up, I think
Speaker 2: to myself, no matter what the maybe the short reward
Speaker 2: would be long term, you're fucked. Technology has caught up
Speaker 2: so much. And I think we see this from the
Speaker 2: latest with the ghost without going down that rabbit hole
Speaker 2: and on all this sort of stuff. You know, Like,
Speaker 2: I just think that the days are gone. I've been
Speaker 2: able to be under the radar, you know, making an
Speaker 2: earn in a way that was I guess non legal.
Speaker 1: If you will yeah, well the world, the world has changed.
Speaker 1: I missed aspects of it. I like the world, you know,
Speaker 1: I embraced technology, or that technology got myself into trouble
Speaker 1: recording a conversation on a phone.
Speaker 2: So just on that, are you are you classed as
Speaker 2: a criminal? Yeah, yeah, well hang on, hang on, so
Speaker 2: Gary Jubilant, Yeah, the ones the glorified detective that did
Speaker 2: some amazing things has now been seen to be classed
Speaker 2: as someone with a criminal conviction.
Speaker 1: I've got and hit me, hit me now that you've
Speaker 1: dug deep, now haven't your brain?
Speaker 2: I say this is a podcast because which I'm thinking
Speaker 2: you are. You know, we all do our podcast and
Speaker 2: we all make them all pretty and nice, and we
Speaker 2: do things. And although this is not at once again uncensored,
Speaker 2: it's the clink, you know. I mean, we're keeping it
Speaker 2: very open, very real, unscripted. But I have to ask
Speaker 2: the question, and because I'm sure there are so many
Speaker 2: people who are listening to this today and go, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: well you've got their interview and Gary Jubilan X detective
Speaker 2: will hang on a sec What makes you so much
Speaker 2: different to me and everybody else out there now that
Speaker 2: has a criminal record?
Speaker 1: Well, I just say, I don't have a problem with
Speaker 1: you. You're going hard, because if you don't go hard, I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't defend myself. So yeah, yeah, I'm a convicted criminal,
Speaker 1: and I get called that on social media and comments there.
Speaker 1: The other day, I wanted to work over in America
Speaker 1: to do some stuff for the podcast. I had the
Speaker 1: visa rejected because I'm I don't know what and the
Speaker 1: tourist criminal.
Speaker 2: How does that feel? Well? Does that feel like compan it? Serious?
Speaker 2: Mateuse I can tell you how fuck feels with. My
Speaker 2: wife's told that she's going to go back to New
Speaker 2: Zealand and I won't see my kids because I can
Speaker 2: never get into New Zealand because I have no right
Speaker 2: due to my ex gang affiliations. In criminality, you're someone
Speaker 2: who's upheld the law. If that's corrected, I say that right,
Speaker 2: upheld it upheld up over them. I'll get corrected somewhere
Speaker 2: along joke's aside, You're now sitting in the same boat
Speaker 2: as many of us with criminal convictions.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, As I said, life's a learning process, and
Speaker 1: I wind it back even further when I was first
Speaker 1: charged and when I had to appear at court and
Speaker 1: when I was fighting it, I thought it hard in court.
Speaker 1: And I make no apologies for what I did. I
Speaker 1: make no apologies for the stance I you know, I'm.
Speaker 2: A very sorry person. Can you make fuck all apologies?
Speaker 2: I was about the tenth time I've heard you so
Speaker 2: far by fifteen minutes already that you make no apology.
Speaker 1: I apologize all the time, but I own my ship
Speaker 1: and I own what I did.
Speaker 2: But what I.
Speaker 1: Wanted to say is that I, for the first time
Speaker 1: felt what it was like having the weight of the
Speaker 1: whole state coming after you, know, the resources of the
Speaker 1: police coming after you, And I got to say, it
Speaker 1: felt quite intimidating. And I am a person that was
Speaker 1: set up probably best out of anyone to handle that
Speaker 1: situation in that the allegations weren't something horrendous, it wasn't
Speaker 1: sort of something to be ashamed of. The consequences weren't extreme.
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to be locked away for the next
Speaker 1: twenty years. But having the full resources of the state
Speaker 1: coming after you, I felt how oppressive it was. And
Speaker 1: it made me reflect on stuff that I've done in
Speaker 1: the cops again, not looking back and going and maybe
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have done that, but more of an understanding
Speaker 1: if it was someone like you, what it feels like.
Speaker 1: If you've got charges coming, it's shit, and then you've
Speaker 1: got to go face the court and all this crap
Speaker 1: that goes in with the court and the brief of evidence,
Speaker 1: and then you've got to serve the brief and then
Speaker 1: the response and all the money that you spend.
Speaker 2: So no favors in reference to having to see lawyers
Speaker 2: will leave later anything like this just because you were
Speaker 2: once are serving off none of that. You basically now
Speaker 2: I've been stripped of anything other than just being Joe's
Speaker 2: citizen who's now been charged it has a criminal record
Speaker 2: and now must front the.
Speaker 1: Courts, charge convicted, in front the courts. But if anything,
Speaker 1: and I try to take positives from negatives, and trust
Speaker 1: me that there was low points when that happened. I
Speaker 1: was in the thick of my career. I was enjoying
Speaker 1: what I was doing. I had the passion and it
Speaker 1: was taken away from me overnight. So there was a
Speaker 1: low point. But then people smarter than me going well, yeah,
Speaker 1: wake up to yourself. It's not the end of the world.
Speaker 1: And I see what some other people are being through
Speaker 1: the people that the families are victims of homicides and
Speaker 1: different things, and I think, well, you've been a bit
Speaker 1: of a softy year, like it's not that bad. Just
Speaker 1: get on with your life. And that's that's what I've
Speaker 1: chosen to do. But it has changed changed my thinking,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'd like to think I'm a better person
Speaker 1: for it. I don't want to give credit to any
Speaker 1: of those idiots that caused all this drama on me,
Speaker 1: but I think I'm a better person for it. It's
Speaker 1: a more understanding. I've looked at your side of life,
Speaker 1: people like yourself, and I'm not probably as judgmental as
Speaker 1: I perhaps was when I was in the cops, which
Speaker 1: I think is a good thing.
Speaker 2: I do too, And I can't wait to have you know,
Speaker 2: our part of this podcast move into that stage because
Speaker 2: there's some things that you have done and are doing there.
Speaker 2: I will leave the door open for you.
Speaker 1: I talk about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's important because you know, here
Speaker 2: you are one minute being that cop that's you know,
Speaker 2: literally putting people in jail. And as I said, we
Speaker 2: will touch on it shortly. I just want to and
Speaker 2: look asked if I can't go down this road. Was
Speaker 2: this in reference your charges to a very sensitive case
Speaker 2: involving a young person who was missing. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: want to start for the respect of the families and
Speaker 2: someone saying names or what anything like that. But as
Speaker 2: someone who is a moralistic man and somebody whom came
Speaker 2: from a code and still lives by a code, it's
Speaker 2: just how it is. I personally don't look at you
Speaker 2: in that respect for what you have been alleged to
Speaker 2: have done. You were trying to protect and get to
Speaker 2: the bottom of an unsolved matter that related to a child.
Speaker 2: So as a father, as a human, I can't. I
Speaker 2: can't sit here and call you a piece of shit,
Speaker 2: your weak dog, and all this sort of shit. If
Speaker 2: we had met fifteen years ago and you were in
Speaker 2: the cops and you fary not concern, you are just
Speaker 2: a low cunt, you know.
Speaker 1: What, that would have been interesting.
Speaker 2: Well, there was every chance, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But due to why you've been charged and no longer
Speaker 2: are you any way, shape or form attached to any
Speaker 2: police service A podcaster who has a background as I am,
Speaker 2: I'm not a criminal. I have no IMC connection as such.
Speaker 2: Today I'm a father and a podcaster and a hard
Speaker 2: working there. So we're on even ground there. But that's
Speaker 2: that's a tough call to see why you've now got
Speaker 2: a criminal record.
Speaker 1: Look, life's not not fair. Well, I'll mentioned the case
Speaker 1: because it's public record. That was three year old whim
Speaker 1: to the young boy and the spider Man suit that
Speaker 1: disappeared up at ben Roon.
Speaker 2: Drive breaking absolutely destroyed.
Speaker 1: So you know, I ran the investigation for four years.
Speaker 1: I took it over five months after he disappeared and
Speaker 1: headed up and then I was taken off because I
Speaker 1: was recording a conversation on telephone. On my telephone, I
Speaker 1: didn't hide with a person of interest, a person involved
Speaker 1: in that investigation that I wanted to speak to. But
Speaker 1: I might also add had lawfully approved listening devices in
Speaker 1: his house. That's without getting in the nitty gritty of
Speaker 1: the fences. And you know, I'm putting people before the court,
Speaker 1: So I'd be a bit hypocritically if I don't accept
Speaker 1: the decision of the court. You know, my whole career
Speaker 1: was putting people before the court. So I just got
Speaker 1: to cop it on the chin what I say. I'm
Speaker 1: not ashamed of it, that's you know, I'm not ashamed
Speaker 1: of what I did. I didn't do it for any
Speaker 1: ulterior motive. I'm not some I just want to touch it.
Speaker 2: I don't think you should be ashamed like I do
Speaker 2: find it personally. I think there'd be a lot of
Speaker 2: people out there that what you were doing was a
Speaker 2: very honorable thing. In reference to finding answers.
Speaker 1: You got to like there's because I was in the
Speaker 1: cops before the Royal Commission came through. I'm talking New
Speaker 1: South Wales, so I was working in the arm tohold
Speaker 1: up squad and there's a lot of shame that came
Speaker 1: out of the Royal Commission about stuff that cops are doing.
Speaker 1: And I know in Queensland corruption and things that came out.
Speaker 1: So I understand what can happen is if you take
Speaker 1: shortcuts or just go one step too far. So I
Speaker 1: understand there become a slippery slide and you lose your
Speaker 1: moral compass. I've seen it because I worked in major
Speaker 1: crime before the Royal Commission came through, so I know
Speaker 1: the impact of it. So what I did on the
Speaker 1: Tyrrell investigation, I don't believe that it was a case
Speaker 1: of being corrupt. I was doing what I thought needed
Speaker 1: to be done to find out what happened to a
Speaker 1: three year old child disappeared. And I might add still
Speaker 1: to this day, ten years down the track, and this
Speaker 1: is a sad part about it. We still don't know
Speaker 1: what's happened in the wind absolutely And if one thing
Speaker 1: you say, I have no regrets. So one regret I've
Speaker 1: got is that the controversy that I've been caught up with,
Speaker 1: the infighting between the police, really our focus should be
Speaker 1: on finding William Tyrell. Like I'm not apologizing for what
Speaker 1: I've done, but when I say all this in fighting
Speaker 1: or all the games that are going on within the police,
Speaker 1: it's a shame that we're not all just heading in
Speaker 1: the same direction trying to find out what happened to Willim.
Speaker 1: But can I ask you some questions now that.
Speaker 2: You just let me finish for a second on the
Speaker 2: bandwagon of the far all right? Yeah, And you're someone
Speaker 2: who are the first person being literally sit down with
Speaker 2: and chew the over because normally it's me on the
Speaker 2: other end of it getting hammered by your ex mates.
Speaker 2: Thinking about the situation and all the values and the
Speaker 2: trust that you had within your beliefs of your career
Speaker 2: do you feel that there's some part of corruption still
Speaker 2: within that sector.
Speaker 1: The way I look at corruption these.
Speaker 2: Especially after your experience, if.
Speaker 1: You're not properly resourcing an investigation, if your focus is
Speaker 1: not serving the public, I think that's as corrupt as
Speaker 1: corruption was in the pre where people were taking dollars
Speaker 1: or people taking back ribs and that, or letting people
Speaker 1: get off or fudging brufs. All that corruption that was exposed.
Speaker 1: That's bad. But I think if you under resource things
Speaker 1: and don't focus on what the public's expectation are or
Speaker 1: give crime figures out there, I think that's just as
Speaker 1: bad as corruption. So I reckon policing. This is my
Speaker 1: take on policing. And I'm not saying this to pissing
Speaker 1: anyone's pockets, but I'm saying we're public servants. As a
Speaker 1: public servant, that's pretty easy. What you meant to do,
Speaker 1: You're meant to serve the public. So a police force
Speaker 1: should be serving the public. What I see in policing
Speaker 1: organizations and they can't attract cops at the moment across
Speaker 1: the country, which is really sad because I think we're
Speaker 1: all served better if you've got good cops. Is that
Speaker 1: there's people that are caught up with their own agenda,
Speaker 1: seeing what they can take from the cops, not what
Speaker 1: they can give to the cops. I always thought we're
Speaker 1: in there to help the community, do the right thing,
Speaker 1: do the work. That was my focus, the focus of
Speaker 1: the people I looked up to, the people I worked with,
Speaker 1: I respected, that's what we wanted to do. But there
Speaker 1: were certain individuals that were just focused on what can
Speaker 1: I get out of the cops, how can I get promoted,
Speaker 1: what can I get from this, which I think that's
Speaker 1: where it goes wrong. But corruption, I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: been I have limited contact with policing now. Sadly that
Speaker 1: was sort of cut off from me when I was
Speaker 1: charged and convicted. But it saddens me that you're not
Speaker 1: getting good people in there because.
Speaker 2: Are you looked at though by the police force now
Speaker 2: as another.
Speaker 1: Criminal certain members of New South Wales Police. But collectively,
Speaker 1: the amount of support I get across the board is
Speaker 1: quite humbling. And it might just be a simple thing
Speaker 1: of someone coming up to me in the street and
Speaker 1: saying something and the irony of yeah that I'm judged
Speaker 1: by certain people within New South Wales Police, not the
Speaker 1: whole of New South Wales police, but other police forces
Speaker 1: don't seem to have a problem with me or Laura.
Speaker 2: I'll just basically clearly say to you that, you know,
Speaker 2: I have nothing but respect for what you were trying
Speaker 2: to achieve. And I feel that, you know, any low
Speaker 2: piece of shit out there that's gone and done what
Speaker 2: they've done to any child, people like yourself, they need
Speaker 2: more of to be able to take action. And we
Speaker 2: talk about you know, crime's atrocities based around you know,
Speaker 2: children and pedophiles, and there's someone who I am a
Speaker 2: survivor of sexual abuse and you know, for me it's
Speaker 2: been very traumatic. Forty eight years of more so, forty
Speaker 2: four years of my life is where it started. So
Speaker 2: you know, when I see somebody out there going into
Speaker 2: bat to try and prevent that from happening, or bring
Speaker 2: justice to a scumbag like that, how can I not
Speaker 2: sort of, I guess look at it from a productive
Speaker 2: point of view. Yeah, okay, you're a cop. I was
Speaker 2: a crim But at the end of the day, yeah,
Speaker 2: like you can't go to jail and a pedophile walk
Speaker 2: through the main and get a pat on the back
Speaker 2: and a shake and a hand and a hug, it
Speaker 2: just doesn't happen. So what's the difference, Yeah, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 1: Well, I do know what you mean, and you're quite right,
Speaker 1: like there's crimes and there's crimes, and when you're talking
Speaker 1: to crime on child there's there's no mitigating circumstances and
Speaker 1: that no excuse whatsoever you say, I don't have regrets
Speaker 1: or don't say sorry. My regret is if I knew
Speaker 1: I was going to be taken off in the manner
Speaker 1: I was, I would have gone harder. Instead of working
Speaker 1: twenty hours a day, I would have worked twenty two
Speaker 1: hours a day like that that this this sits with me,
Speaker 1: that this is unresolved, unresolved issue. But yeah, I'm hoping
Speaker 1: that people are working on it now, you know, come
Speaker 1: up with something and get it, get a result because
Speaker 1: we need to need to get that result. But yeah,
Speaker 1: policing and what I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 2: Still go for it, I said the other I'd copy
Speaker 2: it literally like the punt the.
Speaker 1: With omcgs and members and when I do get to
Speaker 1: meet them, not collectively where it's a group of cops
Speaker 1: and a group of bikis because everyone's bridged up and
Speaker 1: no one's really communicating. But when I've sat down actually
Speaker 1: spoken some blakes or blokes I know socially. Nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the cops. I just know them. In my world,
Speaker 1: we got a lot in common. Yeah, there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot in common. But you guys have this code where
Speaker 1: you just got to hate us. Now where does that
Speaker 1: come from?
Speaker 2: Okay, So let me just take it a step back
Speaker 2: even further, few years so before a lot of members,
Speaker 2: and I say this as a general thing because I
Speaker 2: can there's a lot of members out there who end
Speaker 2: up joining clubs because of one a camaraderie, our brotherhood.
Speaker 2: And I'm speaking of when I came in. I'm forty eight.
Speaker 2: I was involved since I was seventeen eighteen. I started
Speaker 2: hanging around clubs. I was a streak kid from Campbelltown,
Speaker 2: and you know, back then there was the ReBs that
Speaker 2: were very very strong bannets and and you know in
Speaker 2: that inner city sort of in a western Sydney sort
Speaker 2: of area. As a young person growing up on the streets,
Speaker 2: it was tough. It was hard. You know, what you
Speaker 2: had to do to just keep shoes on your feet.
Speaker 2: As you're growing up, you're doing whatever you're doing to
Speaker 2: make money to survive. Then all of a sudden there's
Speaker 2: a bit of street cred. So you know, at that
Speaker 2: stage you're not looking at becoming a member of an OMCG.
Speaker 2: It's an evulsion of your circumstances, your lifestyle. And this
Speaker 2: is what a lot of people don't understand. There's a
Speaker 2: lot more underlying to so many members, a lot of traumas,
Speaker 2: a lot of things that members don't talk about. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of hardened men there that have been hurt
Speaker 2: and broken as young men, young boys, you know, And
Speaker 2: I'm open to speak about my own journey in respect
Speaker 2: to that. You know, Like I always said that as
Speaker 2: a sergeant I was, I was always willing and able
Speaker 2: to do and go whatever was dealt with needed to
Speaker 2: be done. But stepping away from that and looking at
Speaker 2: me as a man and understanding who I was, I
Speaker 2: was a scared little boy inside a set of colors. Now,
Speaker 2: the colors never ever made the members today. I can't
Speaker 2: say once again that that may be how it is.
Speaker 2: But back in the day, you had to be able
Speaker 2: to stand on your own two feet. It didn't just
Speaker 2: come to you. Weren't just handed a set of colors.
Speaker 2: It had to come with a lot of hard work
Speaker 2: and you standing up as a strong person, a reputable person.
Speaker 2: Someone could turn to your brother and know you've got
Speaker 2: your brother's back. Your brother could rely on you. So
Speaker 2: much more involved than what the public perceives it to be.
Speaker 2: It wasn't always based around money. You couldn't buy your
Speaker 2: way in. You know, you had to earn it. A
Speaker 2: lot of brothers had died over the years, you know,
Speaker 2: Like you know, for you to wear a set of
Speaker 2: colors that have been worn by men that.
Speaker 1: Had lost their lives, that's huge.
Speaker 2: So you know where does the hatred come into all that?
Speaker 2: The police would be so hans on back then, like
Speaker 2: I can tell you now, Campbelltown police station was rife
Speaker 2: with it. They would flog the fuck out of you.
Speaker 2: This is before they brought in all the cameras. There
Speaker 2: was that many black spots in that police station. There
Speaker 2: was one sergeant that I knew that knew my story
Speaker 2: and he's passed on now, and I'll give credit to him.
Speaker 2: He would whenever I knew he was on, there was
Speaker 2: every chance that I would get bail because he knew
Speaker 2: that I had nothing, and you know, he knew I
Speaker 2: was copping a hard time. I was a ship bag.
Speaker 2: I was doing what I was doing. Don't worry about
Speaker 2: that there. I won't deny that, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like for what I've been charged with, I'm guilty of it.
Speaker 2: There's no denial of that to date. Let me just
Speaker 2: put that in there before.
Speaker 1: That's just about a course to date.
Speaker 2: I just want to put that on the fucking record
Speaker 2: from there. That's not even but hear me out. So therefore,
Speaker 2: there was a lot of a lot of heavy handedness,
Speaker 2: a lot of flog and a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: like you get put in the back of the bullwag
Speaker 2: and you'd be having your head punched in while your
Speaker 2: hands are cuffed behind your back. Now you can't cuff
Speaker 2: juveniles with their hands behind their back back then they would.
Speaker 2: They'd flog the far look at you, that drag you through,
Speaker 2: throw your head first into the cells. Like the shit
Speaker 2: that we used to cop was unbelievable. Now people think
Speaker 2: that that's all bullshit. Thankfully, a lot of commissions that
Speaker 2: have brought all this factual evidence to surface, and the
Speaker 2: heavy handedness of police has been exposed to answer a
Speaker 2: question that's where the hatred begins, why would I respect?
Speaker 2: Walking down the street some prick that I know that's
Speaker 2: taken me in handcuffed behind my back, flogged the fuck
Speaker 2: out of me, laughed at me in front of his colleagues,
Speaker 2: and they've all sat there and thought it was funny,
Speaker 2: kicking me while I'm down, watching me screaming, and at
Speaker 2: that case, as a young kid, sometimes in tears, beggingem's
Speaker 2: to stop, why would I respect? And then it grows
Speaker 2: and it becomes more hatred than obviously that next level
Speaker 2: you move into that sort of from that street cred,
Speaker 2: you're moving into maybe a space of becoming anomal hang
Speaker 2: around for a club. You naturally already have that hatred
Speaker 2: for the law. You know you talk about that one percent.
Speaker 2: I then I've been molded into become that one percenter,
Speaker 2: that person that is going to despise you as a
Speaker 2: cop or you as a as a law authority.
Speaker 1: Look when you when you explain it that way, Brent,
Speaker 1: I get it, and I just I break it down
Speaker 1: in my simple mind, how would I react with that
Speaker 1: situation if anyone flogged me or added me They've got
Speaker 1: an enemy for life? No, No, if.
Speaker 2: So busy, That's how it was, and these I'm not
Speaker 2: saying this just to just to pipe up or hype
Speaker 2: up this, this this chat. These are facts. This has
Speaker 2: been proven beyond doubt that these acts took place, especially
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm not just talking about Cameltown Police Station.
Speaker 2: This is across the nation, you know, the injustices that
Speaker 2: have happened over the years to young persons which have
Speaker 2: later become some of our most notorious criminals. You know,
Speaker 2: I did an interview with Bernie Matthews, you know, God
Speaker 2: bless his soul. A beautiful man, a very intellectual man
Speaker 2: who I had the honor of having on my podcast
Speaker 2: to clink. He was in at Grafton. Now, Grafton was
Speaker 2: the old sort of place for the heaviest as well.
Speaker 2: I guess what Golden Supermax was is sorry in its day.
Speaker 2: You know, they'd literally come off the truck. They were beaten,
Speaker 2: they were striped, naked, they were like the atrocities that
Speaker 2: occurred to those inmates. He said to me at one
Speaker 2: stage there, I think there was maybe one out of
Speaker 2: that wing or one out of those say, for example,
Speaker 2: I think they might have been fourting don't quote me
Speaker 2: on that. The exact number that did not become a
Speaker 2: murderer or some crime of atrocity or some horrific crime
Speaker 2: that they committed down the track. Why well, yeah, because
Speaker 2: they hate the system. They hated the authority. But why
Speaker 2: can you think about it? If they were put there
Speaker 2: because they were uncontrollable or unmanageable, the logic behind it
Speaker 2: would be not to fuck him up even more, break
Speaker 2: the cycle.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about that because it's something,
Speaker 1: but it's funny. You should mention Bernie Matthews because I
Speaker 1: think we've found some common ground here. I got to
Speaker 1: know Bernie around the same time I got out of
Speaker 1: the cops. He just got out of prison. Someone put
Speaker 1: us in contact together. We met. It was a really
Speaker 1: awkward meeting. I went to his place up at Liftgow.
Speaker 1: I think it was seeing there. He's looking at me.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at him, going what the fuck are we
Speaker 1: doing talking to each other? But very smart man, very
Speaker 1: smart man. And he talked about those experiences to me.
Speaker 1: And when he was dying of cancer, I gave visit
Speaker 1: him in hospital and I felt like he had a
Speaker 1: lot he wanted to tell, a lot, he wanted to
Speaker 1: get I.
Speaker 2: Think there's a lot that went with him, and you
Speaker 2: know as you would have experienced having been like I
Speaker 2: at eighteen was at the sip that was a scary place.
Speaker 2: You know, you're looking at five years plus most blokes.
Speaker 2: I was doing two and a half on the bottom
Speaker 2: at eight en Brant.
Speaker 1: I think there's something. Yeah, we get back to the
Speaker 1: rivalry with the cops and the bikis or cops and
Speaker 1: crooks or whatever. It just shows, like one bad cop
Speaker 1: the impact it can have. You know, if someone if
Speaker 1: some a bad cop, if that's your experience, that you
Speaker 1: can hate cops for the rest of your life. Similarly,
Speaker 1: you can have one cop that you might think decent person.
Speaker 1: And I've heard people in your situation say, well, there
Speaker 1: was this one cop that was a decent person that
Speaker 1: can change the path of their life. But I Bernie
Speaker 1: taught me not to judge, not taught me, but the
Speaker 1: help on that journey looking at Okay, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: What are we doing? Like do we have to hate
Speaker 1: each other? Bernie and I when he was operating, I
Speaker 1: was operating in the stick ups and he was robbing banks.
Speaker 1: If we met each other, we'd probably shoot each other.
Speaker 2: But just a touch on that and he's just a
Speaker 2: little bit of fact, which you would already know because
Speaker 2: you've interviewed. The one thing that Bernie always said is
Speaker 2: he never intentionally went ever and to do an un
Speaker 2: armed robbery, to ever use the gun. He never went
Speaker 2: in there with intention to hurt anybody.
Speaker 1: And you know, and he swore by that. And you
Speaker 1: know a really interesting fact, not just with Bernie, a
Speaker 1: couple of arm robbers that I've spoken to since they
Speaker 1: didn't know about post traumatic stress and all that stuff. Correct,
Speaker 1: they walk out of the bank and I think Russell,
Speaker 1: our good mate that also sadly passed away, walk out
Speaker 1: of the bank thinking they're good people because they didn't
Speaker 1: hurt anyone. But they hadn't at that stage even comprehended
Speaker 1: the trauma that comes from it.
Speaker 2: Look, but you don't.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 2: Did my time and I paid for my crime. You know,
Speaker 2: I got done for commercial importation. At that stage, did
Speaker 2: I think that the ongoing flow would be detrimental to
Speaker 2: the community. No, it wasn't something in my mindset that
Speaker 2: I thought about. Yet. Have I been affected by people
Speaker 2: with addiction and through addiction and you committing crimes to
Speaker 2: people I care about and love because they've gone on
Speaker 2: a rampage. Absolutely, so did I contribute back then to
Speaker 2: that part two thousand and nine, Absolutely I was. You know,
Speaker 2: I had, and I did, and I convicted and done
Speaker 2: my time for it. At the time, they wouldn't have
Speaker 2: been thinking about, like you say, you know, the trauma
Speaker 2: or the PTSD that was left to the teller or
Speaker 2: the public in the in the area of the space
Speaker 2: of what too.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we find common ground there. You're
Speaker 1: talking about your dealings with the drugs, and you didn't
Speaker 1: understand the drama that flowed on from that. You got
Speaker 1: Bernie robbing banks and thinking he's been a good fellow
Speaker 1: because he didn't shoot anyone. You got me, just if
Speaker 1: you've committed a crime, I'm going to lock you up.
Speaker 1: I'm going to play hardball, lock you up. No one
Speaker 1: really like when I was locking people up when I
Speaker 1: was in the in the cops started to evolve a
Speaker 1: little bit more towards the end, but I didn't really
Speaker 1: have time to think about what if I was locking
Speaker 1: you up, I wouldn't be concerned about what was your upbringing,
Speaker 1: did your parents love you, were you were you brutalized
Speaker 1: or what ever happened. It would have been got one,
Speaker 1: where's the next one? So we all look back and
Speaker 1: we learn. I think the fact that we're sitting down
Speaker 1: and discussing, even though you fucking ambush me.
Speaker 2: But well, I mean, look, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I didn't know how else to go about getting you here.
Speaker 2: And look, I'm not mates with cops. I don't speak
Speaker 2: to cops as simple as that. And I'm sure you
Speaker 2: have very little doo with crims other than through your podcast.
Speaker 2: I felt that I've got enough front to sit down
Speaker 2: and ask somebody who knows, and I know that you're
Speaker 2: going to actually come back at me. So when I
Speaker 2: put the gloves on and I'll crack together because I'm
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you know it's me
Speaker 2: and you. There's the cameras here and the mics and
Speaker 2: and it's as real as you're going to get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I respect it, and the fact that you
Speaker 1: asked me out here, because I would assume I would
Speaker 1: assume that.
Speaker 2: Don't assume, okay, assume that.
Speaker 1: Never assumed. I don't like to ship, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: I know that you'd get some ship flowing your way.
Speaker 1: Just mere fact you're seeing in the room talking to
Speaker 1: me that's life.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what you have to realize, is
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. Nobody's going to sit here and say
Speaker 2: you know that they appreciate you and like you for
Speaker 2: everything you do. There's people out there that couldn't stand
Speaker 2: half the people that I may interview or me sitting
Speaker 2: here now questioning you on my podcast. And I use
Speaker 2: that word questioning. I don't even like to use.
Speaker 1: That word because I just I should just play hardball
Speaker 1: like you guys did, the hard hard nuts that I'd
Speaker 1: interview just fucking sit here and stare at you.
Speaker 2: It'd be fucking boring, boring podcast. And the thing is,
Speaker 2: let it be known. I didn't pay for Gary to
Speaker 2: come up. He paid for his own fucking flights. So
Speaker 2: he's stupid and of the day, you know, like he
Speaker 2: come up here with literally I'm no, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to use that word. I think you would have thought
Speaker 2: that you're coming up for a happy, bubbly chat on
Speaker 2: because our season is based around giving people the tools
Speaker 2: to bettering their lives. Funny enough, though, and I think
Speaker 2: that you do have some tools there that we were
Speaker 2: able to pull out and leaving the toolbox after our
Speaker 2: episode that will help people, and that's the other side
Speaker 2: of it without sort of pissing in your pocket. I
Speaker 2: know that you've been doing things from a different side
Speaker 2: of life. I guess if I can say it a
Speaker 2: little bit more from my perspective from other inmates out there,
Speaker 2: perspective from other persons out there with criminalities perspective, No,
Speaker 2: you're not a criminal, even though you've been convicted now
Speaker 2: and you have been charging. You know what it feels
Speaker 2: like to be rejected for a visa? Suck shit? And
Speaker 2: I was like saying to mean it like suck shit,
Speaker 2: because like, do you know how many fucking times we
Speaker 2: try to go for visas and get knocked back because
Speaker 2: of misdemeanors. But yet, yes, okay, look, not all of
Speaker 2: us have got misdemeanors. Some of us have got some
Speaker 2: serious crimes. But it's not a nice feeling, you know.
Speaker 2: But on the flip side of that, I do know
Speaker 2: after doing a little bit of homework about you, and
Speaker 2: you've been putting yourself into some spaces that are uncomfortable
Speaker 2: that we have had to live in, that we have
Speaker 2: had to experience.
Speaker 1: Well, I figure I've got to have a look at it.
Speaker 1: If I'm going to talk about crime a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give credit to people that have come
Speaker 1: on the podcast and sort of changing changing my view
Speaker 1: on things. But yeah, what do you do? I'm not
Speaker 1: a big one in that. I think people within the police,
Speaker 1: certain people I'm talking like a very small group that
Speaker 1: went at me, wanted to break me. And I'm thinking
Speaker 1: they don't even know who I am because they weren't
Speaker 1: going to break me. And I look at this way,
Speaker 1: what's my best form of event? Have an interesting life?
Speaker 1: My life's interesting. Yes, you ambush me coming up here,
Speaker 1: but that's not a bad interview.
Speaker 2: That's one for us. But I'm going to actually claim
Speaker 2: that one because I'll tell you what to be the
Speaker 2: first time I ever got to ambush next. And maybe
Speaker 2: I'm losing the sharpness because you dropped the ball, mate,
Speaker 2: You didn't do enough investigations.
Speaker 1: I should have seen that coming coming a mile away.
Speaker 1: But you know, but I think it's worthy.
Speaker 2: I think it's worthy that we have we're sitting here now.
Speaker 1: Finally, I think it's why I come up, why I
Speaker 1: want to sit down with you. I think I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting and it's not lost on you orr like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you did what you did, and you did it very
Speaker 1: well at your time. I did what I did very well,
Speaker 1: and neverthe two should meet. I get that. But i've
Speaker 1: been listening to your podcast. Yes, I'll say it. I
Speaker 1: listened to you.
Speaker 2: I've heard a couple of yours.
Speaker 1: I've got to say you do a pretty good job.
Speaker 1: But even when we I think you start just before
Speaker 1: me or whatever. But around that time kicking off close
Speaker 1: to about four years around that time, and I thought
Speaker 1: it was really curious there was who was a mutual friend.
Speaker 1: So that suggested we get in contact or whatever, or
Speaker 1: you might want to speak to Brent. I think the
Speaker 1: feedback and it was I think John Killey. You might
Speaker 1: know John Killick escaped from Blake that flew.
Speaker 2: Out of one of the most maximum security the facilities,
Speaker 2: that you just had a helicopter land with his Russian
Speaker 2: girlfriend that hijacked the helicopter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't make this ship up. But anyway, and.
Speaker 2: You know what what an actual like and people are
Speaker 2: going to say, mate, what a legend and what a
Speaker 2: great man.
Speaker 1: He said, I'll speak to Brent, because I was speaking
Speaker 1: to him and he came back and I said, he
Speaker 1: said that I spake the Brent, I don't think he
Speaker 1: wants to speak to you. And a few other f
Speaker 1: this fat and we can say it on our podcast
Speaker 1: Restricted God response was, I spoke to Brent and he
Speaker 1: basically said, fuck off, you're a copper. And so to Wit,
Speaker 1: I said, we'll tell him the fuck off. He was
Speaker 1: a bikey and I don't know what where we where
Speaker 1: we found ground from there. But that was the first thing.
Speaker 1: And then I was listening to your podcast, and I
Speaker 1: was genuinely listening before you know anything that i'd get
Speaker 1: to know or whatever. I was curious about what you're
Speaker 1: doing and I find found it quite quite interesting. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, you're running the Clink podcast. I'm running my
Speaker 1: Catch Killers podcast. You're a bikey or ex bikey. I'm
Speaker 1: an ex cop. We shouldn't be talking to each other.
Speaker 1: But as fate would have it, you tricked me.
Speaker 2: But well, I mean the reality is, you know, like I,
Speaker 2: I look at it this way. You know, there is
Speaker 2: that that absolute line of you don't cross. We're not
Speaker 2: discussing anybody anything. We're not I'm not asking of you
Speaker 2: to throw anyone under the bus. There's no there's no
Speaker 2: statements or allegations or crimes being discuss it's going to
Speaker 2: implicate anybody or anything. This is purely a conversation between
Speaker 2: somebody who had a past in the law and somebody
Speaker 2: who was in the past had had a career criminality.
Speaker 2: So if anything, I think this conversation today is to
Speaker 2: actually benefit people out there and understand a little bit
Speaker 2: more about who and why. And also too, I guess,
Speaker 2: touching on the fact and I didn't know that that
Speaker 2: you now have a criminal record. I can't help but
Speaker 2: keep chuckling to myself.
Speaker 1: It doesn't carry a lot of street.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty cool thing. I said you to finally
Speaker 2: sit down and think to myself, this decorated officer or
Speaker 2: ex police officer is the criminal.
Speaker 1: Look by Jake, I didn't get a certificate of service,
Speaker 1: but I've got a couple of charge sheets, so you
Speaker 1: put the certificate of the service in your in your
Speaker 1: home in the frame. I just want I want to
Speaker 1: I want to say something because I just reflecting on you.
Speaker 1: You're saying, how cops if you get a flogging, and
Speaker 1: then how they you guys, Well, if I got copper
Speaker 1: flogging from the car.
Speaker 2: But it's not a flogging. This is the word we
Speaker 2: need to change a This was an ongoing constant all
Speaker 2: the time. You were guaranteed to walk out of the
Speaker 2: police station bruised, black eyed, bleeding nose, busted lip. You were,
Speaker 2: you were one hundred percent. This wasn't just me, This
Speaker 2: was every young person in that in that era.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well a different era, and you know it's not
Speaker 1: was your era? Well my era, I feel like a
Speaker 1: dying breed, like my era was a long time ago.
Speaker 1: But I understand that world. I understand where things were
Speaker 1: pretty willing in the police station. But the point I
Speaker 1: wanted to make, i'd also seen people in the charge
Speaker 1: jump over and built some Yeah it might be a
Speaker 1: female police officer or just some little little dude that
Speaker 1: you know, been a violent person in his life. Not
Speaker 1: I'll funk off with.
Speaker 2: Your little dude, never been a violent person. Just because
Speaker 2: you fucking blakes get put through a holy shit at
Speaker 2: the academy, whether you're a big, small, short, or tall,
Speaker 2: fat or is getting whatever happened to the fucking copper
Speaker 2: that had to be six foot tall and bulletproof, and
Speaker 2: now they put in all these little fat fucks that
Speaker 2: couldn't even run themselves in a ten meter race.
Speaker 1: Gone on the day of the six foot cops. Although
Speaker 1: I've seen some little cops that can go, but not.
Speaker 2: Only there's a seven foot four one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw the picture of that. That's that's incredible.
Speaker 1: But what I was going to say, I just I
Speaker 1: feel like I just needed to defend the police here
Speaker 1: a little bit in about the resentment that you get
Speaker 1: where you're treated that way cops, not all cops, but
Speaker 1: the hard working cops. Sometimes they put themselves out there
Speaker 1: and they're constantly being abused and all that. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you've that might be where they cross the line.
Speaker 1: You know, how you talk about how in bred that
Speaker 1: hate is. Or if a cop turns up every every
Speaker 1: day at work and is getting abused, getting bashed, getting
Speaker 1: injured and all that, maybe change a little bit that
Speaker 1: way too. So I think we've got to just balance
Speaker 1: balance it.
Speaker 2: Out of here. No no, no fair call. Then change
Speaker 2: your fucking job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, don't be an out around.
Speaker 2: Well, even when you're not, you're still classed as fuck.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I get pulled over now, and you
Speaker 2: know it's an instant intel check. I had a highway
Speaker 2: patrol officer pull me over only a few months ago
Speaker 2: and and I mean this sincerely. This has not been
Speaker 2: a fucking goose. This has been really honest. So he
Speaker 2: pulls me over and I said, what was the problem.
Speaker 2: He says, I, mate, it's it's a it's one hundred
Speaker 2: caz on you're going one hundred and six or one
Speaker 2: hundred and seven? I said, ship, apologies were it goes
Speaker 2: just your license please, and goes back to he's carrying
Speaker 2: as I'll be back in a second. Comes up and
Speaker 2: he goes, so you got anything in the car? Said no,
Speaker 2: said you're welcome and go through it. He goes, so
Speaker 2: are you still with the omc G group?
Speaker 1: And I said what?
Speaker 2: He said, Oh, well, I'm just asking you the question.
Speaker 2: Can you answer the question? I said no, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to fucking answer the question. I said, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: going to say it is this. That's how pathetic your
Speaker 2: intel is. And he goes, oh, oh, hang on a
Speaker 2: second bigger. I said no, No, I said, I'm fed
Speaker 2: up with this. I said, twenty ten. What year are
Speaker 2: we in now? Twenty twenty four? I said, and your
Speaker 2: intel still tells you that I am a part of
Speaker 2: an omc G. And he turned around and he said
Speaker 2: to me, he walked away, and he come back and
Speaker 2: he said, listen. He said, I can understand you're firing up.
Speaker 2: I said, well, no, I'm sick of it. I said,
Speaker 2: that's not my life. I said, but once again, I said,
Speaker 2: nine times out of ten, if that had happened in
Speaker 2: the past, i'd know because he'd sit in his car.
Speaker 2: Next minute you'd see him come from everywhere, right, so
Speaker 2: you knew the squad was coming. That didn't happen. But
Speaker 2: what he did say to me was that they never
Speaker 2: remove that sort of intel from the computers. Well, that
Speaker 2: it's there. So no matter whether you turn into a
Speaker 2: priest or you give your heart and soul to whatever
Speaker 2: else it is out there to be doing good in
Speaker 2: this world. In this community, we talk about constantly being
Speaker 2: I guess judged or looked at. And I'm not sitting
Speaker 2: here saying that he was just doing his job. I
Speaker 2: got caught doing six k's or seven k's over the
Speaker 2: limit that was on me. But the intel that was
Speaker 2: on the computer that he didn't know me from a bar.
Speaker 2: So that looks at that and goes, well, hang on
Speaker 2: a sec, he's a club member. Yeah, And next minute
Speaker 2: I'm getting turned upside down. Which I didn't but could
Speaker 2: have and has happened in the past, turned upside down
Speaker 2: on the side of the end month.
Speaker 1: Well see, I like what, well, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying credit where credit stear at least
Speaker 1: the cop didn't escalade and get his back up.
Speaker 2: You No, no, no, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not sitting here saying that he did
Speaker 2: wrong and I'm not.
Speaker 1: You make a valid point there, Like you know, we
Speaker 1: look at and I'm thinking if I was a cop
Speaker 1: pulled over, I would look at you link to OMCG
Speaker 1: and then you're thinking, oh, that that was twenty ten,
Speaker 1: that's where fourteen years ago. All right, look again and
Speaker 1: you laugh at this one after just after I was
Speaker 1: charged and it became public, I was driving with my son.
Speaker 1: I've been up to help my mother was moving. So
Speaker 1: it was a Sunday morning. Yeah, we don't have the
Speaker 1: tickets anymore on the registration My car registrations and expired
Speaker 1: the day before. I get pulled over highway patrol and
Speaker 1: I have didn't say I think I didn't say, you know,
Speaker 1: I think you know who I am. I'm in the
Speaker 1: cops because I wasn't in the cops any well, I've
Speaker 1: been charged Joe citizen. So yeah, I just and have
Speaker 1: where you off to? And I said, I'm just coming home.
Speaker 1: Have you had anything to drink? And I had two
Speaker 1: beers last night last at seven o'clock or whatever. It's
Speaker 1: ten o'clock in the morning, and I smell alcohol and
Speaker 1: I said, blew me and it came back negative, obviously,
Speaker 1: and he's gone, that's interesting. And then went and sat
Speaker 1: in the police car and I could see him on
Speaker 1: the phone, smiling, laughing. No doubt by that time he
Speaker 1: knows who I am and what comes back. I want
Speaker 1: to do another test, and I know I'm with him.
Speaker 1: The rights to say, you know, like enough is enough
Speaker 1: came back. My son's sitting there. My son's an adult
Speaker 1: like he's in his twenties, sitting there in the suit.
Speaker 1: Blow it again. This cop was just humiliating me, just
Speaker 1: degrading me. I'm sitting there, just okay, don't snap, don't snap.
Speaker 1: And then he looks at my son, have you been drinking?
Speaker 1: And what? Well, that's exactly what I wanted to say,
Speaker 1: but I just let my son answer it, and no,
Speaker 1: I haven't been drinking. I'm smelling alcohol. I said, I've
Speaker 1: just had amandain. Maybe you're smelling mandarin. The skin went
Speaker 1: on and on and talked about you know you haven't
Speaker 1: your car's not registered. I said, I'm sorry, when did
Speaker 1: the day before? I'm sorry, what are you being up to? Well,
Speaker 1: it's actually helping my mother move, not that it's any
Speaker 1: of your business. I was kept there for about fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty minutes, and I just got the shits. I said,
Speaker 1: you've had your fun. Now you write me up a
Speaker 1: ticket or just leave me alone. But I'm not playing
Speaker 1: this game anymore. That one person just pissed me off
Speaker 1: so much. I hated cops for a long time then,
Speaker 1: just the one. And I was saying to my son there,
Speaker 1: that's why people get a bad name, like the way
Speaker 1: he was treating me. But he was having fun because
Speaker 1: now I was the ex cop or the shamed cop,
Speaker 1: and he's a little highway patrol dude that was just
Speaker 1: going to make life hard for fuck your day, yeah,
Speaker 1: and humiliate me in front of my son and for
Speaker 1: someone like me, and I understand.
Speaker 2: And that goes back to what I said to you
Speaker 2: earlier in our chat in reference to and I get it.
Speaker 2: I get it. Look, you having intel hypothetically ill use
Speaker 2: me is a case you got intel on me. I've
Speaker 2: allegedly sold CBD oil to and undercover police officer through
Speaker 2: my Instagram. Next minute, you're kicking my door in at
Speaker 2: four point thirty quarter five in the morning, waking my
Speaker 2: kids up. The kids are freaking screaming, you know, the
Speaker 2: wife's freaking out. And I'm basically obviously well aware of
Speaker 2: what it is that you're doing. But you're coming through
Speaker 2: like you know, a bullet at a gate for what.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, and there's no need for it. Really,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think like I can't sit here
Speaker 1: as this innocent. I played hardball when I was in
Speaker 1: the cops, but I had my moral code. And we
Speaker 1: talk about moral codes. I think it's important bikes have
Speaker 1: moral codes. I can understand moral code that you guys
Speaker 1: might have. I might agree with it, but I can
Speaker 1: respect that. Okay, Well, if this happens, we're going to
Speaker 1: do this, blah blah blah, I understand it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: if people power corrupts, you have power. As a biky,
Speaker 1: I think you've got power. You can walk into the
Speaker 1: pub and create all sorts of dramas. People are going
Speaker 1: to back off, and it corrupts cops have power, and
Speaker 1: power crops corrupts cops. So we're just need to check yourself.
Speaker 2: On it sometimes.
Speaker 1: Fair call if you had your fun with me yet.
Speaker 2: You know, like I'm going to say, and I'm glad
Speaker 2: that we got to really just yeah, none, I'm glad
Speaker 2: we got to butt heads a bit there because I feel,
Speaker 2: like I said in the beginning, you know it needed
Speaker 2: to be had. On a serious note, though, there's there
Speaker 2: is a sort of a meeting place I guess where
Speaker 2: we're both come to. I don't even know what the
Speaker 2: word what should we call it? A happy place?
Speaker 1: Why are you're punching your fists together?
Speaker 2: We've still got our gloves. I remember when we jumped
Speaker 2: in the ring to have a crack at each The
Speaker 2: gloves aren't off yet. And I'm sure there's a few
Speaker 2: lesson rights you want to throw right now.
Speaker 1: I've got one good fight.
Speaker 2: Look, look, we're both trying to make a difference in
Speaker 2: this world today. Put aside our pass where Joe's citizens today,
Speaker 2: where you're not you're not an officer of the law.
Speaker 2: I'm not a career criminal and buy club member. What
Speaker 2: I am is a man is compassionate, caring and trying
Speaker 2: to help people in a better way through their choices
Speaker 2: of life using my lived experience as you can do
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, forgetting everything that's gone before with our difference
Speaker 1: is one thing that I think we're on the same path.
Speaker 1: And I know, like you've done your research on me
Speaker 1: before I've come here. I'm not okay, I'm stupid. Then
Speaker 1: you got me up here and I thought it was
Speaker 1: a fluffy you sing Kumbaia and you.
Speaker 2: Know Poppa that Sai's a keeper.
Speaker 1: Now you've done a lot, a lot of time in jail.
Speaker 1: How do you feel when you come out of jail?
Speaker 1: Are you angry or what?
Speaker 2: Look Gary, why don't we just stop here and we'll
Speaker 2: talk about this in the next episode of the Click?
Speaker 1: Okay? Can we also call it our Catch Killers Click
Speaker 1: and I Catch Kills? Come on, You've got to compromise,
Speaker 1: but it's.
Speaker 2: Going out on both platforms.
Speaker 1: This one beautiful
Speaker 2: In nine mm