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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never

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Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. This one's

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Speaker 1: a bit strange because I'm not sure if it should

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Speaker 1: be called Eye Catch Killers or The Clink. I've been

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Speaker 1: invited up to Brisbane to sit down and have a

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Speaker 1: chat with Brent Simpson, host of the very successful podcasts

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Speaker 1: The Clink. Brent's story is a little bit different from

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Speaker 1: mine in that Brent was a sergeant at arms with

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Speaker 1: an outlaw motorcycle gang and I was a detective inspector

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Speaker 1: at the gang Squad, so yeah, we shouldn't like each other.

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Speaker 1: But Brent invited me to come up to his studio

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Speaker 1: and I thought I should take up the challenge. But

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Speaker 1: I got to say, Brent ambush me. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was going to be a friendly chat, but Brent obviously

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Speaker 1: had some things he wanted to get off his chest

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Speaker 1: about the relationship between the world he knew and the

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Speaker 1: world that I inhabited as a cop. I think you're

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Speaker 1: going to enjoy it a little bit different from what

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Speaker 1: we normally have on I catch killers. Brent's throwing a

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Speaker 1: bit my way, and I'd like to think I threw

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Speaker 1: a bit back at him. But in the end we'd

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Speaker 1: found some common ground and it's a really interesting chat

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Speaker 1: with two people that come from different sides of the law,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: My name's Brent Simpson. I'm the host of the Clink

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Speaker 2: podcast Stories of Redemption. I was a career criminal, drug

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Speaker 2: importer and involved in bike clubs.

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Speaker 1: Gary Jubilin's my name. I was a cop for over

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Speaker 1: thirty years in New South Wales Police. The majority of

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Speaker 1: that time was spent in homicide I now hosts a

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Speaker 1: podcast series called Eye Catch Killers.

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Speaker 2: What brings us here, Well, let's just put it on

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Speaker 2: the table. You're Gary Jubilant, the man that has a

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Speaker 2: true crime podcast that likes to talk to ex crims

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Speaker 2: and people that basically have some sort of background with

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Speaker 2: the law. My podcast talks about stories of redemption, and

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Speaker 2: to be honest with you, mate, I wanted to sit

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Speaker 2: down with you today and actually do something no one's

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Speaker 2: done before and put the gloves on rather than take

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Speaker 2: them off, because I think it's about time the two

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Speaker 2: blakes like ourselves had a no bullshit conversation about what

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Speaker 2: truly goes on behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, I haven't got a problem with that.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't sure which way it was going to go, but

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Speaker 1: let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Well, you got invited up here, and firstly, I appreciate

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Speaker 2: you taking the time to come up here. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: fair enough. I bullshitted and said that it was coming

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Speaker 2: up to do a joint I guess podcast for both

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Speaker 2: of us. But I thought about it and I thought, no,

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Speaker 2: fuck that fuck. Okay, you know, when has anyone ever

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Speaker 2: sat down with you and truly had it out with you?

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Speaker 2: And I guess here I am ready to have a crackback.

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Speaker 2: So for everybody out there listening, this is going to

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Speaker 2: be something a little bit different. I think to your

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Speaker 2: podcasts and that my podcast has had, and I think

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Speaker 2: the listeners out there would like to know a little

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Speaker 2: bit more about the who's and the whys. Why did

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Speaker 2: you for starters? Why would you want to be a cop?

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, bullshit off the table, then yeah, that's why

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Speaker 1: we're going. I can tell you why I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a cop. I didn't join to do something good

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Speaker 1: for society. I joined because it looked like an exciting

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Speaker 1: job for me. I didn't have a problem with enforcing rules.

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Speaker 1: If rules are there, they're there for a reason. I

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Speaker 1: joined it just for the excitement. But while I found

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Speaker 1: Brent as I was doing it, I think I was

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Speaker 1: doing some good, good stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're saying, enjoy it for the excitement. The excitement, what

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Speaker 2: what's the excitement of locking people up? Like? I get it,

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Speaker 2: And I'll give you credit where credit's due. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to take it away from you because I think

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Speaker 2: what you have done in the latter part of your career,

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Speaker 2: I don't know too many people that could have actually

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Speaker 2: gone through those things. There's traumatic situations, the cases that

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Speaker 2: you worked on, and the credit to you working in

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Speaker 2: a space where you brought pedophiles to the surface. You

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Speaker 2: expose them missing beautiful young children. Mate. Look, I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to sit here and say that that in any way,

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Speaker 2: shape or form is something that you know. I'm again

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Speaker 2: because I commend that that takes a lot of courage.

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Speaker 2: But I also too, as someone who's dealt with a

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Speaker 2: lot of ship cops over the years and copped a

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Speaker 2: lot of shit from them. Why what do you get

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Speaker 2: out of What do you get out of chasing bikes

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Speaker 2: or career criminals? That are you know? What is it?

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Speaker 1: No, I'm happy you asked that question because I want

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Speaker 1: to answer it. When I first started in the cops,

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Speaker 1: I was naive, young, ignorant, as we all are when

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Speaker 1: we're young fellas and young women. But the longer I

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Speaker 1: stayed in the cops, in the area of work, I

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Speaker 1: gravitated towards as a criminal investigator. I know your background

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Speaker 1: as a bikey like, yeah, you guys, as part of

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Speaker 1: the charter, you don't like cops, you don't talk to cops.

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Speaker 2: I gets made us sick. I mean, at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, there was nothing worse than having a

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Speaker 2: copper kicking your front fucking doors in front of your kids.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Rip your house to pieces,

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Speaker 2: tell your missus to go sit in the corner, shutow mouth.

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Speaker 2: Talk about the way that we speak to women and

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Speaker 2: children today as men, and all this sort of shit.

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Speaker 2: And you know, like I get it, there's a way

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Speaker 2: of things to be executed and done. And obviously intel

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Speaker 2: that comes in that these places may have firearms, could

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Speaker 2: be violent offenders, what have you. I get all that,

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Speaker 2: but take that out on me, don't take that out

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Speaker 2: on my family.

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Speaker 1: I make this point. I make this point because I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not going to defend cops across the board,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not going to throw cops under the bus

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Speaker 1: across the board. There's some good cops and there's some

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Speaker 1: bad cops. Can you vouch for every member of an OMCG.

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Speaker 2: No, And at the end of the day, I'm not

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Speaker 2: here to vouch for anybody bar myself as you are,

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Speaker 2: and look I to this day, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: swear by it. I don't personally have any involvement in

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Speaker 2: that space anymore. I don't live my life around crime

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Speaker 2: and outlaw motorcycle clubs. I still do have a lot

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Speaker 2: of respect for a lot of members, absolutely because I

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Speaker 2: know that they are genuinely good humans. I think, like

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Speaker 2: everything in life, you know, we're judged by whom we

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Speaker 2: associate with. Do I think that every man is a

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Speaker 2: bad man? Absolutely nice? Like you go to a jail.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that everybody in a jail, everybody that's

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Speaker 2: been locked up, is just fucking shit? Do you think

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Speaker 2: that they're bad? Because I know for a fact that

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Speaker 2: they're not.

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Speaker 1: No. And look when I say have changed my mind,

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Speaker 1: I'd say I've opened my mind rather than change my

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Speaker 1: mind when I joined the cops, and I bring it back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to do anything in life, at least

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Speaker 1: evolve as you go through life, learn lessons. When I

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Speaker 1: joined the cops, it was pretty black and white for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: bad guys, good guys. You know, we were dressed in blue.

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Speaker 1: The bad guys we chased and put them in jail.

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Speaker 1: Move onto the next thing. But there's more that you

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Speaker 1: can do in policing like this. I want to justify

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Speaker 1: police and I understand where you're coming from. And if

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Speaker 1: you've had your personal experiences as you talk. I had

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Speaker 1: a CAD when I was in the cops, and maybe

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Speaker 1: you understand this. I'd go after you, and i'd go

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Speaker 1: after you hard. I make no apologies for it. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't go after your family. I wouldn't humiliate you in

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Speaker 1: front of your kids.

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Speaker 2: That's not And how many years did you spend in

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Speaker 2: the police force?

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Speaker 1: Over thirty five thirty So.

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Speaker 2: You're obviously involved in organized crime and all that sort

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Speaker 2: of stuff.

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Speaker 1: The majority of my career was as a besides tactical policing,

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Speaker 1: was also major crime, major crime.

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Speaker 2: So therefore, anyone like myself with a background OMCG. Organized crime, importation,

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Speaker 2: any of this sort of major crime, robbery squad and

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Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff, you would have had a

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Speaker 2: hand in. Yeah, so there would you not say that

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Speaker 2: there are heavy handed tactics that police do use that

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Speaker 2: do then affect family members.

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Speaker 1: There's consequences, there's consequences by your actions. I wouldn't set

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Speaker 1: out to humiliate a family member, to upset children. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a nogo there in my book, and.

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Speaker 2: No go in that book across the board or you know,

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Speaker 2: in any underworld style of live.

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Speaker 1: So I put it this way, if if there's family there.

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Speaker 1: I used to hate if I'm locking up someone like you,

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Speaker 1: if the parents are there or someone's there treating with dignity.

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Speaker 1: And it was told to me, and this is this

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Speaker 1: is where I'm saying, Brent, I've learned. I'm not making

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Speaker 1: any apologies for anything I've done the cops, but I

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Speaker 1: work closely with Sarah yure, a forensic psychologists on some

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Speaker 1: a lot of homicide investigations, and i'd rad life. I'd

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Speaker 1: go off half beat and say this blake's done this,

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Speaker 1: he must be a shithead, and yeah, a bad guy.

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Speaker 1: And she was at pain to explain to me just

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Speaker 1: because someone does something bad doesn't necessarily make them a

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Speaker 1: bad person. Yeah, I'm a bit slow on the uptake,

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Speaker 1: but that started gradually working its way into my mind,

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Speaker 1: and I saw that people do make mistakes. We all

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Speaker 1: make mistakes, and I've made mistakes. Yeah, I live with them.

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Speaker 1: I learned by them. I don't judge everyone, but for

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Speaker 1: me to slam all Bikis or to you to slam

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Speaker 1: all cops, I think we've got to break it down

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Speaker 1: because I'm not going to vouch for every cop, but

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Speaker 1: I will vouch for the ones that I know, there's

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Speaker 1: the way I say in policing, I've met some of

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Speaker 1: the most impressive people in my life and some of

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Speaker 1: the most drop kicks in my life within that organization.

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Speaker 1: The antagonism between omcgs and cops. I was in the

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Speaker 1: gang squad. I was a detective inspector in the gang

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Speaker 1: squad right around the time just set the period of

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Speaker 1: time where that stuff happened between the common Cero's and

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Speaker 1: the Hells Angels at the airport. So I saw what

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Speaker 1: was going on, I think, and you might have a

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Speaker 1: different view. There was a perception that what goes on

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Speaker 1: in OMCG gangs stays within the gangs and innocent people

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Speaker 1: don't get caught up. That's where the line was crossed,

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Speaker 1: and I think it changed the landscape forever in law

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Speaker 1: enforcement and omcg's And that ship went down in the airport.

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Speaker 1: You can't have people bashed like that in a public,

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Speaker 1: public place, and that changed the landscape. But I during

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Speaker 1: my career, like working gang squad or when I was

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Speaker 1: in homicide paths across with CG members, I've got to say,

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Speaker 1: I sit down and quite often there's a bit of

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Speaker 1: respect for the way that they live their life, so

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Speaker 1: there's not that antagonism. But when if you're coming at

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Speaker 1: me as in fuck you you're a cop, we hate cops, well,

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Speaker 1: stupid me is going to go, well, fuck you, I

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Speaker 1: hate you too, and it escalates that way. I think, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it serves either side very well.

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Speaker 2: I know for me personally, and I make this fairly clear,

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Speaker 2: I am and have no longer been a part of

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Speaker 2: OMCG lifestyle now for a long time. I think twenty

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Speaker 2: and ten twenty eleven was my final days of ever

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Speaker 2: donning a set of colors. You know, as I said,

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Speaker 2: to this day, still hold a lot of regard and

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Speaker 2: respect for a lot of great men whom I grew

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Speaker 2: up with as seniors or you know, people I looked

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Speaker 2: up to. Someone who didn't have family, who didn't have brothers,

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Speaker 2: who was brought around a strong brotherhood and a camaraderie.

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Speaker 2: I can't speak for today, and I'm not about to

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Speaker 2: speak for today, so I make no words negative or

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Speaker 2: positive in reference to how things are structured today. I'm

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Speaker 2: only speaking from my perspective of when I was what

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Speaker 2: I see today, I don't agree with a lot of it.

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Speaker 2: You talk about crossing that line. I feel that the

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Speaker 2: lines got crossed well and truly some time ago. To

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Speaker 2: be specific. I'm not going to sort of sit here

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Speaker 2: and throw those dates or times or actions into place,

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Speaker 2: because I don't feel that that's something that I need

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Speaker 2: to touch on. But I have to agree that the

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Speaker 2: days of you know, publicly taking action for you know,

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Speaker 2: things that are happening within certain spaces, they were always

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Speaker 2: done out of mind, out of sight, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: It was never involved with women, it was never involved

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Speaker 2: with children, was never done within a workplace. Today, I

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Speaker 2: don't think that those values align. I will say that much.

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Speaker 2: And once again, that's just me seeing things as they are.

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Speaker 2: That's not me speaking factually because I'm not involved in

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Speaker 2: the lifestyle. You're an excope. You know, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that we're seeing today that the way that

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Speaker 2: the police are dealing with organized crime very very different

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Speaker 2: to obviously the time when you were actively in the

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Speaker 2: force and me actively as a club member. I mean,

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Speaker 2: how do you see that today and where it's at.

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Speaker 1: I got to say, and this is not swinging a

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Speaker 1: vote here for law enforcement, but I reckon that would

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Speaker 1: be a hard gig being a crook trying to make

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Speaker 1: a dollar days with technology the way it is seen,

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Speaker 1: what's happened now. I don't know that they'll shift their

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Speaker 1: focus when I say they are talking collectively. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be OMCG, any sort of organized crime situation,

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Speaker 1: shift their attention on how they're going to do it.

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Speaker 1: But I wouldn't like to be trying to commit a

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Speaker 1: crime these days. I think the pendulum swung in favor

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Speaker 1: of law enforcement with all the technology. You walk out

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Speaker 1: on the street now and yeah, we can pretty well

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Speaker 1: track you.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree, And to be honest with you, it

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Speaker 2: fathoms me because I sit back now and you know

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Speaker 2: you often ponder on the how's the wires and the waves,

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Speaker 2: and to me, when you weigh it up, I think

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Speaker 2: to myself, no matter what the maybe the short reward

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Speaker 2: would be long term, you're fucked. Technology has caught up

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Speaker 2: so much. And I think we see this from the

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Speaker 2: latest with the ghost without going down that rabbit hole

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Speaker 2: and on all this sort of stuff. You know, Like,

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Speaker 2: I just think that the days are gone. I've been

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Speaker 2: able to be under the radar, you know, making an

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Speaker 2: earn in a way that was I guess non legal.

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Speaker 1: If you will yeah, well the world, the world has changed.

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Speaker 1: I missed aspects of it. I like the world, you know,

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Speaker 1: I embraced technology, or that technology got myself into trouble

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Speaker 1: recording a conversation on a phone.

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Speaker 2: So just on that, are you are you classed as

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Speaker 2: a criminal? Yeah, yeah, well hang on, hang on, so

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Speaker 2: Gary Jubilant, Yeah, the ones the glorified detective that did

288
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Speaker 2: some amazing things has now been seen to be classed

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Speaker 2: as someone with a criminal conviction.

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Speaker 1: I've got and hit me, hit me now that you've

291
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Speaker 1: dug deep, now haven't your brain?

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Speaker 2: I say this is a podcast because which I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: you are. You know, we all do our podcast and

294
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Speaker 2: we all make them all pretty and nice, and we

295
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 2: do things. And although this is not at once again uncensored,

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Speaker 2: it's the clink, you know. I mean, we're keeping it

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00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 2: very open, very real, unscripted. But I have to ask

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Speaker 2: the question, and because I'm sure there are so many

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00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 2: people who are listening to this today and go, yeah, okay,

300
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,560
Speaker 2: well you've got their interview and Gary Jubilan X detective

301
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 2: will hang on a sec What makes you so much

302
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 2: different to me and everybody else out there now that

303
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 2: has a criminal record?

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Speaker 1: Well, I just say, I don't have a problem with

305
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,160
Speaker 1: you. You're going hard, because if you don't go hard, I can't.

306
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Speaker 1: I can't defend myself. So yeah, yeah, I'm a convicted criminal,

307
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Speaker 1: and I get called that on social media and comments there.

308
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Speaker 1: The other day, I wanted to work over in America

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Speaker 1: to do some stuff for the podcast. I had the

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Speaker 1: visa rejected because I'm I don't know what and the

311
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Speaker 1: tourist criminal.

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Speaker 2: How does that feel? Well? Does that feel like compan it? Serious?

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Speaker 2: Mateuse I can tell you how fuck feels with. My

314
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Speaker 2: wife's told that she's going to go back to New

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Speaker 2: Zealand and I won't see my kids because I can

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Speaker 2: never get into New Zealand because I have no right

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Speaker 2: due to my ex gang affiliations. In criminality, you're someone

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Speaker 2: who's upheld the law. If that's corrected, I say that right,

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00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 2: upheld it upheld up over them. I'll get corrected somewhere

320
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 2: along joke's aside, You're now sitting in the same boat

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Speaker 2: as many of us with criminal convictions.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, As I said, life's a learning process, and

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Speaker 1: I wind it back even further when I was first

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Speaker 1: charged and when I had to appear at court and

325
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Speaker 1: when I was fighting it, I thought it hard in court.

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Speaker 1: And I make no apologies for what I did. I

327
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Speaker 1: make no apologies for the stance I you know, I'm.

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Speaker 2: A very sorry person. Can you make fuck all apologies?

329
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Speaker 2: I was about the tenth time I've heard you so

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Speaker 2: far by fifteen minutes already that you make no apology.

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Speaker 1: I apologize all the time, but I own my ship

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Speaker 1: and I own what I did.

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Speaker 2: But what I.

334
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Speaker 1: Wanted to say is that I, for the first time

335
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Speaker 1: felt what it was like having the weight of the

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Speaker 1: whole state coming after you, know, the resources of the

337
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 1: police coming after you, And I got to say, it

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00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 1: felt quite intimidating. And I am a person that was

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Speaker 1: set up probably best out of anyone to handle that

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Speaker 1: situation in that the allegations weren't something horrendous, it wasn't

341
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Speaker 1: sort of something to be ashamed of. The consequences weren't extreme.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't going to be locked away for the next

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Speaker 1: twenty years. But having the full resources of the state

344
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,479
Speaker 1: coming after you, I felt how oppressive it was. And

345
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: it made me reflect on stuff that I've done in

346
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Speaker 1: the cops again, not looking back and going and maybe

347
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,199
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have done that, but more of an understanding

348
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 1: if it was someone like you, what it feels like.

349
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,160
Speaker 1: If you've got charges coming, it's shit, and then you've

350
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: got to go face the court and all this crap

351
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 1: that goes in with the court and the brief of evidence,

352
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,439
Speaker 1: and then you've got to serve the brief and then

353
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Speaker 1: the response and all the money that you spend.

354
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Speaker 2: So no favors in reference to having to see lawyers

355
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 2: will leave later anything like this just because you were

356
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 2: once are serving off none of that. You basically now

357
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 2: I've been stripped of anything other than just being Joe's

358
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 2: citizen who's now been charged it has a criminal record

359
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 2: and now must front the.

360
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Speaker 1: Courts, charge convicted, in front the courts. But if anything,

361
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Speaker 1: and I try to take positives from negatives, and trust

362
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Speaker 1: me that there was low points when that happened. I

363
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: was in the thick of my career. I was enjoying

364
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Speaker 1: what I was doing. I had the passion and it

365
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 1: was taken away from me overnight. So there was a

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Speaker 1: low point. But then people smarter than me going well, yeah,

367
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: wake up to yourself. It's not the end of the world.

368
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Speaker 1: And I see what some other people are being through

369
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Speaker 1: the people that the families are victims of homicides and

370
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Speaker 1: different things, and I think, well, you've been a bit

371
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: of a softy year, like it's not that bad. Just

372
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Speaker 1: get on with your life. And that's that's what I've

373
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Speaker 1: chosen to do. But it has changed changed my thinking,

374
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Speaker 1: and yeah, I'd like to think I'm a better person

375
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Speaker 1: for it. I don't want to give credit to any

376
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Speaker 1: of those idiots that caused all this drama on me,

377
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: but I think I'm a better person for it. It's

378
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 1: a more understanding. I've looked at your side of life,

379
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: people like yourself, and I'm not probably as judgmental as

380
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Speaker 1: I perhaps was when I was in the cops, which

381
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Speaker 1: I think is a good thing.

382
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Speaker 2: I do too, And I can't wait to have you know,

383
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Speaker 2: our part of this podcast move into that stage because

384
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 2: there's some things that you have done and are doing there.

385
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Speaker 2: I will leave the door open for you.

386
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Speaker 1: I talk about it.

387
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's important because you know, here

388
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Speaker 2: you are one minute being that cop that's you know,

389
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 2: literally putting people in jail. And as I said, we

390
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 2: will touch on it shortly. I just want to and

391
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 2: look asked if I can't go down this road. Was

392
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 2: this in reference your charges to a very sensitive case

393
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 2: involving a young person who was missing. Yeah, I don't

394
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: want to start for the respect of the families and

395
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,360
Speaker 2: someone saying names or what anything like that. But as

396
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 2: someone who is a moralistic man and somebody whom came

397
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 2: from a code and still lives by a code, it's

398
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 2: just how it is. I personally don't look at you

399
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: in that respect for what you have been alleged to

400
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 2: have done. You were trying to protect and get to

401
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 2: the bottom of an unsolved matter that related to a child.

402
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 2: So as a father, as a human, I can't. I

403
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 2: can't sit here and call you a piece of shit,

404
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 2: your weak dog, and all this sort of shit. If

405
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: we had met fifteen years ago and you were in

406
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 2: the cops and you fary not concern, you are just

407
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 2: a low cunt, you know.

408
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: What, that would have been interesting.

409
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 2: Well, there was every chance, you know what I mean.

410
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 2: But due to why you've been charged and no longer

411
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: are you any way, shape or form attached to any

412
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: police service A podcaster who has a background as I am,

413
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 2: I'm not a criminal. I have no IMC connection as such.

414
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: Today I'm a father and a podcaster and a hard

415
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 2: working there. So we're on even ground there. But that's

416
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: that's a tough call to see why you've now got

417
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 2: a criminal record.

418
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: Look, life's not not fair. Well, I'll mentioned the case

419
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: because it's public record. That was three year old whim

420
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: to the young boy and the spider Man suit that

421
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: disappeared up at ben Roon.

422
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 2: Drive breaking absolutely destroyed.

423
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: So you know, I ran the investigation for four years.

424
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: I took it over five months after he disappeared and

425
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: headed up and then I was taken off because I

426
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: was recording a conversation on telephone. On my telephone, I

427
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: didn't hide with a person of interest, a person involved

428
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: in that investigation that I wanted to speak to. But

429
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: I might also add had lawfully approved listening devices in

430
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: his house. That's without getting in the nitty gritty of

431
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: the fences. And you know, I'm putting people before the court,

432
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: So I'd be a bit hypocritically if I don't accept

433
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: the decision of the court. You know, my whole career

434
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: was putting people before the court. So I just got

435
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: to cop it on the chin what I say. I'm

436
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: not ashamed of it, that's you know, I'm not ashamed

437
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: of what I did. I didn't do it for any

438
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: ulterior motive. I'm not some I just want to touch it.

439
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: I don't think you should be ashamed like I do

440
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 2: find it personally. I think there'd be a lot of

441
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: people out there that what you were doing was a

442
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: very honorable thing. In reference to finding answers.

443
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: You got to like there's because I was in the

444
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: cops before the Royal Commission came through. I'm talking New

445
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: South Wales, so I was working in the arm tohold

446
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: up squad and there's a lot of shame that came

447
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: out of the Royal Commission about stuff that cops are doing.

448
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: And I know in Queensland corruption and things that came out.

449
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: So I understand what can happen is if you take

450
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,239
Speaker 1: shortcuts or just go one step too far. So I

451
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: understand there become a slippery slide and you lose your

452
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: moral compass. I've seen it because I worked in major

453
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: crime before the Royal Commission came through, so I know

454
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: the impact of it. So what I did on the

455
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: Tyrrell investigation, I don't believe that it was a case

456
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: of being corrupt. I was doing what I thought needed

457
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: to be done to find out what happened to a

458
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: three year old child disappeared. And I might add still

459
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: to this day, ten years down the track, and this

460
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: is a sad part about it. We still don't know

461
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: what's happened in the wind absolutely And if one thing

462
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: you say, I have no regrets. So one regret I've

463
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: got is that the controversy that I've been caught up with,

464
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: the infighting between the police, really our focus should be

465
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: on finding William Tyrell. Like I'm not apologizing for what

466
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: I've done, but when I say all this in fighting

467
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: or all the games that are going on within the police,

468
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: it's a shame that we're not all just heading in

469
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: the same direction trying to find out what happened to Willim.

470
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: But can I ask you some questions now that.

471
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: You just let me finish for a second on the

472
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: bandwagon of the far all right? Yeah, And you're someone

473
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: who are the first person being literally sit down with

474
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: and chew the over because normally it's me on the

475
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: other end of it getting hammered by your ex mates.

476
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: Thinking about the situation and all the values and the

477
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: trust that you had within your beliefs of your career

478
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 2: do you feel that there's some part of corruption still

479
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: within that sector.

480
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: The way I look at corruption these.

481
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 2: Especially after your experience, if.

482
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,479
Speaker 1: You're not properly resourcing an investigation, if your focus is

483
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: not serving the public, I think that's as corrupt as

484
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: corruption was in the pre where people were taking dollars

485
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: or people taking back ribs and that, or letting people

486
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: get off or fudging brufs. All that corruption that was exposed.

487
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: That's bad. But I think if you under resource things

488
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 1: and don't focus on what the public's expectation are or

489
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: give crime figures out there, I think that's just as

490
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: bad as corruption. So I reckon policing. This is my

491
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: take on policing. And I'm not saying this to pissing

492
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: anyone's pockets, but I'm saying we're public servants. As a

493
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: public servant, that's pretty easy. What you meant to do,

494
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: You're meant to serve the public. So a police force

495
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: should be serving the public. What I see in policing

496
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: organizations and they can't attract cops at the moment across

497
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: the country, which is really sad because I think we're

498
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: all served better if you've got good cops. Is that

499
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: there's people that are caught up with their own agenda,

500
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: seeing what they can take from the cops, not what

501
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: they can give to the cops. I always thought we're

502
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: in there to help the community, do the right thing,

503
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: do the work. That was my focus, the focus of

504
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: the people I looked up to, the people I worked with,

505
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 1: I respected, that's what we wanted to do. But there

506
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: were certain individuals that were just focused on what can

507
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: I get out of the cops, how can I get promoted,

508
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: what can I get from this, which I think that's

509
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: where it goes wrong. But corruption, I don't know. I've

510
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: been I have limited contact with policing now. Sadly that

511
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: was sort of cut off from me when I was

512
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: charged and convicted. But it saddens me that you're not

513
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: getting good people in there because.

514
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: Are you looked at though by the police force now

515
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: as another.

516
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: Criminal certain members of New South Wales Police. But collectively,

517
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: the amount of support I get across the board is

518
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: quite humbling. And it might just be a simple thing

519
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: of someone coming up to me in the street and

520
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: saying something and the irony of yeah that I'm judged

521
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: by certain people within New South Wales Police, not the

522
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: whole of New South Wales police, but other police forces

523
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: don't seem to have a problem with me or Laura.

524
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: I'll just basically clearly say to you that, you know,

525
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 2: I have nothing but respect for what you were trying

526
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: to achieve. And I feel that, you know, any low

527
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: piece of shit out there that's gone and done what

528
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: they've done to any child, people like yourself, they need

529
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: more of to be able to take action. And we

530
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: talk about you know, crime's atrocities based around you know,

531
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 2: children and pedophiles, and there's someone who I am a

532
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: survivor of sexual abuse and you know, for me it's

533
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: been very traumatic. Forty eight years of more so, forty

534
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 2: four years of my life is where it started. So

535
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: you know, when I see somebody out there going into

536
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: bat to try and prevent that from happening, or bring

537
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: justice to a scumbag like that, how can I not

538
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: sort of, I guess look at it from a productive

539
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: point of view. Yeah, okay, you're a cop. I was

540
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: a crim But at the end of the day, yeah,

541
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: like you can't go to jail and a pedophile walk

542
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: through the main and get a pat on the back

543
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: and a shake and a hand and a hug, it

544
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: just doesn't happen. So what's the difference, Yeah, you know

545
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: what I mean?

546
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: Well, I do know what you mean, and you're quite right,

547
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: like there's crimes and there's crimes, and when you're talking

548
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: to crime on child there's there's no mitigating circumstances and

549
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: that no excuse whatsoever you say, I don't have regrets

550
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: or don't say sorry. My regret is if I knew

551
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: I was going to be taken off in the manner

552
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: I was, I would have gone harder. Instead of working

553
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 1: twenty hours a day, I would have worked twenty two

554
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: hours a day like that that this this sits with me,

555
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: that this is unresolved, unresolved issue. But yeah, I'm hoping

556
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: that people are working on it now, you know, come

557
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: up with something and get it, get a result because

558
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: we need to need to get that result. But yeah,

559
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: policing and what I wanted to ask you.

560
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: Still go for it, I said the other I'd copy

561
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: it literally like the punt the.

562
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:49,479
Speaker 1: With omcgs and members and when I do get to

563
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: meet them, not collectively where it's a group of cops

564
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: and a group of bikis because everyone's bridged up and

565
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: no one's really communicating. But when I've sat down actually

566
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: spoken some blakes or blokes I know socially. Nothing to

567
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: do with the cops. I just know them. In my world,

568
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: we got a lot in common. Yeah, there's there's a

569
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: lot in common. But you guys have this code where

570
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: you just got to hate us. Now where does that

571
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: come from?

572
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: Okay, So let me just take it a step back

573
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: even further, few years so before a lot of members,

574
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: and I say this as a general thing because I

575
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: can there's a lot of members out there who end

576
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: up joining clubs because of one a camaraderie, our brotherhood.

577
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: And I'm speaking of when I came in. I'm forty eight.

578
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: I was involved since I was seventeen eighteen. I started

579
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: hanging around clubs. I was a streak kid from Campbelltown,

580
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: and you know, back then there was the ReBs that

581
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: were very very strong bannets and and you know in

582
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: that inner city sort of in a western Sydney sort

583
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: of area. As a young person growing up on the streets,

584
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: it was tough. It was hard. You know, what you

585
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: had to do to just keep shoes on your feet.

586
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: As you're growing up, you're doing whatever you're doing to

587
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: make money to survive. Then all of a sudden there's

588
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: a bit of street cred. So you know, at that

589
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: stage you're not looking at becoming a member of an OMCG.

590
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 2: It's an evulsion of your circumstances, your lifestyle. And this

591
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: is what a lot of people don't understand. There's a

592
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: lot more underlying to so many members, a lot of traumas,

593
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: a lot of things that members don't talk about. There's

594
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: a lot of hardened men there that have been hurt

595
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: and broken as young men, young boys, you know, And

596
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: I'm open to speak about my own journey in respect

597
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: to that. You know, Like I always said that as

598
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: a sergeant I was, I was always willing and able

599
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: to do and go whatever was dealt with needed to

600
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: be done. But stepping away from that and looking at

601
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: me as a man and understanding who I was, I

602
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: was a scared little boy inside a set of colors. Now,

603
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: the colors never ever made the members today. I can't

604
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: say once again that that may be how it is.

605
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: But back in the day, you had to be able

606
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: to stand on your own two feet. It didn't just

607
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: come to you. Weren't just handed a set of colors.

608
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: It had to come with a lot of hard work

609
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: and you standing up as a strong person, a reputable person.

610
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: Someone could turn to your brother and know you've got

611
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: your brother's back. Your brother could rely on you. So

612
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: much more involved than what the public perceives it to be.

613
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: It wasn't always based around money. You couldn't buy your

614
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: way in. You know, you had to earn it. A

615
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 2: lot of brothers had died over the years, you know,

616
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: Like you know, for you to wear a set of

617
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: colors that have been worn by men that.

618
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: Had lost their lives, that's huge.

619
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: So you know where does the hatred come into all that?

620
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: The police would be so hans on back then, like

621
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: I can tell you now, Campbelltown police station was rife

622
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: with it. They would flog the fuck out of you.

623
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: This is before they brought in all the cameras. There

624
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: was that many black spots in that police station. There

625
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: was one sergeant that I knew that knew my story

626
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: and he's passed on now, and I'll give credit to him.

627
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: He would whenever I knew he was on, there was

628
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: every chance that I would get bail because he knew

629
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: that I had nothing, and you know, he knew I

630
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: was copping a hard time. I was a ship bag.

631
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: I was doing what I was doing. Don't worry about

632
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: that there. I won't deny that, you know what I mean,

633
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: Like for what I've been charged with, I'm guilty of it.

634
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: There's no denial of that to date. Let me just

635
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: put that in there before.

636
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: That's just about a course to date.

637
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 2: I just want to put that on the fucking record

638
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: from there. That's not even but hear me out. So therefore,

639
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: there was a lot of a lot of heavy handedness,

640
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: a lot of flog and a lot of you know,

641
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: like you get put in the back of the bullwag

642
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: and you'd be having your head punched in while your

643
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: hands are cuffed behind your back. Now you can't cuff

644
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: juveniles with their hands behind their back back then they would.

645
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: They'd flog the far look at you, that drag you through,

646
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: throw your head first into the cells. Like the shit

647
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: that we used to cop was unbelievable. Now people think

648
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: that that's all bullshit. Thankfully, a lot of commissions that

649
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: have brought all this factual evidence to surface, and the

650
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: heavy handedness of police has been exposed to answer a

651
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: question that's where the hatred begins, why would I respect?

652
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 2: Walking down the street some prick that I know that's

653
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: taken me in handcuffed behind my back, flogged the fuck

654
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: out of me, laughed at me in front of his colleagues,

655
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: and they've all sat there and thought it was funny,

656
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 2: kicking me while I'm down, watching me screaming, and at

657
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 2: that case, as a young kid, sometimes in tears, beggingem's

658
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 2: to stop, why would I respect? And then it grows

659
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: and it becomes more hatred than obviously that next level

660
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,479
Speaker 2: you move into that sort of from that street cred,

661
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: you're moving into maybe a space of becoming anomal hang

662
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: around for a club. You naturally already have that hatred

663
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: for the law. You know you talk about that one percent.

664
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 2: I then I've been molded into become that one percenter,

665
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: that person that is going to despise you as a

666
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: cop or you as a as a law authority.

667
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: Look when you when you explain it that way, Brent,

668
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: I get it, and I just I break it down

669
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: in my simple mind, how would I react with that

670
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: situation if anyone flogged me or added me They've got

671
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: an enemy for life? No, No, if.

672
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: So busy, That's how it was, and these I'm not

673
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: saying this just to just to pipe up or hype

674
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: up this, this this chat. These are facts. This has

675
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: been proven beyond doubt that these acts took place, especially

676
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm not just talking about Cameltown Police Station.

677
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: This is across the nation, you know, the injustices that

678
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: have happened over the years to young persons which have

679
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: later become some of our most notorious criminals. You know,

680
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 2: I did an interview with Bernie Matthews, you know, God

681
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: bless his soul. A beautiful man, a very intellectual man

682
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: who I had the honor of having on my podcast

683
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: to clink. He was in at Grafton. Now, Grafton was

684
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 2: the old sort of place for the heaviest as well.

685
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: I guess what Golden Supermax was is sorry in its day.

686
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: You know, they'd literally come off the truck. They were beaten,

687
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: they were striped, naked, they were like the atrocities that

688
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: occurred to those inmates. He said to me at one

689
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: stage there, I think there was maybe one out of

690
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 2: that wing or one out of those say, for example,

691
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: I think they might have been fourting don't quote me

692
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: on that. The exact number that did not become a

693
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: murderer or some crime of atrocity or some horrific crime

694
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 2: that they committed down the track. Why well, yeah, because

695
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 2: they hate the system. They hated the authority. But why

696
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: can you think about it? If they were put there

697
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: because they were uncontrollable or unmanageable, the logic behind it

698
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 2: would be not to fuck him up even more, break

699
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: the cycle.

700
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about that because it's something,

701
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: but it's funny. You should mention Bernie Matthews because I

702
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: think we've found some common ground here. I got to

703
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: know Bernie around the same time I got out of

704
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: the cops. He just got out of prison. Someone put

705
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,959
Speaker 1: us in contact together. We met. It was a really

706
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: awkward meeting. I went to his place up at Liftgow.

707
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: I think it was seeing there. He's looking at me.

708
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: I'm looking at him, going what the fuck are we

709
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: doing talking to each other? But very smart man, very

710
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: smart man. And he talked about those experiences to me.

711
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: And when he was dying of cancer, I gave visit

712
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: him in hospital and I felt like he had a

713
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: lot he wanted to tell, a lot, he wanted to

714
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: get I.

715
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 2: Think there's a lot that went with him, and you

716
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: know as you would have experienced having been like I

717
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: at eighteen was at the sip that was a scary place.

718
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 2: You know, you're looking at five years plus most blokes.

719
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: I was doing two and a half on the bottom

720
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: at eight en Brant.

721
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: I think there's something. Yeah, we get back to the

722
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: rivalry with the cops and the bikis or cops and

723
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 1: crooks or whatever. It just shows, like one bad cop

724
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: the impact it can have. You know, if someone if

725
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: some a bad cop, if that's your experience, that you

726
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: can hate cops for the rest of your life. Similarly,

727
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: you can have one cop that you might think decent person.

728
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: And I've heard people in your situation say, well, there

729
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: was this one cop that was a decent person that

730
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: can change the path of their life. But I Bernie

731
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: taught me not to judge, not taught me, but the

732
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: help on that journey looking at Okay, what are we doing?

733
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: What are we doing? Like do we have to hate

734
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: each other? Bernie and I when he was operating, I

735
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: was operating in the stick ups and he was robbing banks.

736
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: If we met each other, we'd probably shoot each other.

737
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: But just a touch on that and he's just a

738
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: little bit of fact, which you would already know because

739
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: you've interviewed. The one thing that Bernie always said is

740
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: he never intentionally went ever and to do an un

741
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: armed robbery, to ever use the gun. He never went

742
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: in there with intention to hurt anybody.

743
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: And you know, and he swore by that. And you

744
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: know a really interesting fact, not just with Bernie, a

745
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: couple of arm robbers that I've spoken to since they

746
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 1: didn't know about post traumatic stress and all that stuff. Correct,

747
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 1: they walk out of the bank and I think Russell,

748
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: our good mate that also sadly passed away, walk out

749
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: of the bank thinking they're good people because they didn't

750
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: hurt anyone. But they hadn't at that stage even comprehended

751
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: the trauma that comes from it.

752
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 2: Look, but you don't.

753
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: And I.

754
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: Did my time and I paid for my crime. You know,

755
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: I got done for commercial importation. At that stage, did

756
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: I think that the ongoing flow would be detrimental to

757
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: the community. No, it wasn't something in my mindset that

758
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: I thought about. Yet. Have I been affected by people

759
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: with addiction and through addiction and you committing crimes to

760
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: people I care about and love because they've gone on

761
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: a rampage. Absolutely, so did I contribute back then to

762
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: that part two thousand and nine, Absolutely I was. You know,

763
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 2: I had, and I did, and I convicted and done

764
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: my time for it. At the time, they wouldn't have

765
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: been thinking about, like you say, you know, the trauma

766
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: or the PTSD that was left to the teller or

767
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: the public in the in the area of the space

768
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: of what too.

769
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: You know, I think we find common ground there. You're

770
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 1: talking about your dealings with the drugs, and you didn't

771
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: understand the drama that flowed on from that. You got

772
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: Bernie robbing banks and thinking he's been a good fellow

773
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: because he didn't shoot anyone. You got me, just if

774
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: you've committed a crime, I'm going to lock you up.

775
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: I'm going to play hardball, lock you up. No one

776
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: really like when I was locking people up when I

777
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: was in the in the cops started to evolve a

778
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: little bit more towards the end, but I didn't really

779
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: have time to think about what if I was locking

780
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: you up, I wouldn't be concerned about what was your upbringing,

781
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: did your parents love you, were you were you brutalized

782
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: or what ever happened. It would have been got one,

783
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: where's the next one? So we all look back and

784
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: we learn. I think the fact that we're sitting down

785
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: and discussing, even though you fucking ambush me.

786
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: But well, I mean, look, at the end of the day,

787
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: I didn't know how else to go about getting you here.

788
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: And look, I'm not mates with cops. I don't speak

789
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: to cops as simple as that. And I'm sure you

790
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 2: have very little doo with crims other than through your podcast.

791
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: I felt that I've got enough front to sit down

792
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: and ask somebody who knows, and I know that you're

793
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: going to actually come back at me. So when I

794
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: put the gloves on and I'll crack together because I'm

795
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you know it's me

796
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 2: and you. There's the cameras here and the mics and

797
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 2: and it's as real as you're going to get.

798
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I respect it, and the fact that you

799
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: asked me out here, because I would assume I would

800
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: assume that.

801
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 2: Don't assume, okay, assume that.

802
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,439
Speaker 1: Never assumed. I don't like to ship, all right, Well,

803
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: I know that you'd get some ship flowing your way.

804
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: Just mere fact you're seeing in the room talking to

805
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: me that's life.

806
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: And I think that's what you have to realize, is

807
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. Nobody's going to sit here and say

808
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: you know that they appreciate you and like you for

809
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: everything you do. There's people out there that couldn't stand

810
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 2: half the people that I may interview or me sitting

811
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: here now questioning you on my podcast. And I use

812
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: that word questioning. I don't even like to use.

813
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: That word because I just I should just play hardball

814
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: like you guys did, the hard hard nuts that I'd

815
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: interview just fucking sit here and stare at you.

816
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: It'd be fucking boring, boring podcast. And the thing is,

817
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: let it be known. I didn't pay for Gary to

818
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 2: come up. He paid for his own fucking flights. So

819
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 2: he's stupid and of the day, you know, like he

820
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: come up here with literally I'm no, I'm not going

821
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: to use that word. I think you would have thought

822
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: that you're coming up for a happy, bubbly chat on

823
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: because our season is based around giving people the tools

824
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 2: to bettering their lives. Funny enough, though, and I think

825
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: that you do have some tools there that we were

826
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: able to pull out and leaving the toolbox after our

827
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: episode that will help people, and that's the other side

828
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 2: of it without sort of pissing in your pocket. I

829
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: know that you've been doing things from a different side

830
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: of life. I guess if I can say it a

831
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: little bit more from my perspective from other inmates out there,

832
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 2: perspective from other persons out there with criminalities perspective, No,

833
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: you're not a criminal, even though you've been convicted now

834
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: and you have been charging. You know what it feels

835
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 2: like to be rejected for a visa? Suck shit? And

836
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: I was like saying to mean it like suck shit,

837
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: because like, do you know how many fucking times we

838
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: try to go for visas and get knocked back because

839
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: of misdemeanors. But yet, yes, okay, look, not all of

840
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: us have got misdemeanors. Some of us have got some

841
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: serious crimes. But it's not a nice feeling, you know.

842
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: But on the flip side of that, I do know

843
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: after doing a little bit of homework about you, and

844
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: you've been putting yourself into some spaces that are uncomfortable

845
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: that we have had to live in, that we have

846
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: had to experience.

847
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: Well, I figure I've got to have a look at it.

848
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: If I'm going to talk about crime a true crime podcast.

849
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,919
Speaker 1: I'm going to give credit to people that have come

850
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: on the podcast and sort of changing changing my view

851
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: on things. But yeah, what do you do? I'm not

852
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: a big one in that. I think people within the police,

853
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: certain people I'm talking like a very small group that

854
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: went at me, wanted to break me. And I'm thinking

855
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 1: they don't even know who I am because they weren't

856
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: going to break me. And I look at this way,

857
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,479
Speaker 1: what's my best form of event? Have an interesting life?

858
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: My life's interesting. Yes, you ambush me coming up here,

859
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: but that's not a bad interview.

860
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: That's one for us. But I'm going to actually claim

861
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: that one because I'll tell you what to be the

862
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 2: first time I ever got to ambush next. And maybe

863
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: I'm losing the sharpness because you dropped the ball, mate,

864
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: You didn't do enough investigations.

865
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: I should have seen that coming coming a mile away.

866
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: But you know, but I think it's worthy.

867
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: I think it's worthy that we have we're sitting here now.

868
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: Finally, I think it's why I come up, why I

869
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: want to sit down with you. I think I think

870
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: it's interesting and it's not lost on you orr like, yeah,

871
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 1: you did what you did, and you did it very

872
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: well at your time. I did what I did very well,

873
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: and neverthe two should meet. I get that. But i've

874
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: been listening to your podcast. Yes, I'll say it. I

875
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: listened to you.

876
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 2: I've heard a couple of yours.

877
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: I've got to say you do a pretty good job.

878
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: But even when we I think you start just before

879
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: me or whatever. But around that time kicking off close

880
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: to about four years around that time, and I thought

881
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: it was really curious there was who was a mutual friend.

882
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: So that suggested we get in contact or whatever, or

883
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: you might want to speak to Brent. I think the

884
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: feedback and it was I think John Killey. You might

885
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: know John Killick escaped from Blake that flew.

886
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 2: Out of one of the most maximum security the facilities,

887
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: that you just had a helicopter land with his Russian

888
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 2: girlfriend that hijacked the helicopter.

889
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't make this ship up. But anyway, and.

890
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: You know what what an actual like and people are

891
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: going to say, mate, what a legend and what a

892
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 2: great man.

893
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: He said, I'll speak to Brent, because I was speaking

894
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: to him and he came back and I said, he

895
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: said that I spake the Brent, I don't think he

896
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: wants to speak to you. And a few other f

897
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: this fat and we can say it on our podcast

898
00:46:53,800 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: Restricted God response was, I spoke to Brent and he

899
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: basically said, fuck off, you're a copper. And so to Wit,

900
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: I said, we'll tell him the fuck off. He was

901
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: a bikey and I don't know what where we where

902
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: we found ground from there. But that was the first thing.

903
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: And then I was listening to your podcast, and I

904
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: was genuinely listening before you know anything that i'd get

905
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: to know or whatever. I was curious about what you're

906
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: doing and I find found it quite quite interesting. And

907
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: then yeah, you're running the Clink podcast. I'm running my

908
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: Catch Killers podcast. You're a bikey or ex bikey. I'm

909
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: an ex cop. We shouldn't be talking to each other.

910
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: But as fate would have it, you tricked me.

911
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 2: But well, I mean the reality is, you know, like I,

912
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: I look at it this way. You know, there is

913
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: that that absolute line of you don't cross. We're not

914
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: discussing anybody anything. We're not I'm not asking of you

915
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: to throw anyone under the bus. There's no there's no

916
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: statements or allegations or crimes being discuss it's going to

917
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: implicate anybody or anything. This is purely a conversation between

918
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: somebody who had a past in the law and somebody

919
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: who was in the past had had a career criminality.

920
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: So if anything, I think this conversation today is to

921
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 2: actually benefit people out there and understand a little bit

922
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: more about who and why. And also too, I guess,

923
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: touching on the fact and I didn't know that that

924
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: you now have a criminal record. I can't help but

925
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: keep chuckling to myself.

926
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't carry a lot of street.

927
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: It's a pretty cool thing. I said you to finally

928
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 2: sit down and think to myself, this decorated officer or

929
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: ex police officer is the criminal.

930
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: Look by Jake, I didn't get a certificate of service,

931
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: but I've got a couple of charge sheets, so you

932
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: put the certificate of the service in your in your

933
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: home in the frame. I just want I want to

934
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: I want to say something because I just reflecting on you.

935
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: You're saying, how cops if you get a flogging, and

936
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: then how they you guys, Well, if I got copper

937
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: flogging from the car.

938
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: But it's not a flogging. This is the word we

939
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: need to change a This was an ongoing constant all

940
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: the time. You were guaranteed to walk out of the

941
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: police station bruised, black eyed, bleeding nose, busted lip. You were,

942
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: you were one hundred percent. This wasn't just me, This

943
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: was every young person in that in that era.

944
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, well a different era, and you know it's not

945
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: was your era? Well my era, I feel like a

946
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: dying breed, like my era was a long time ago.

947
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: But I understand that world. I understand where things were

948
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: pretty willing in the police station. But the point I

949
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: wanted to make, i'd also seen people in the charge

950
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: jump over and built some Yeah it might be a

951
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: female police officer or just some little little dude that

952
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, been a violent person in his life. Not

953
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: I'll funk off with.

954
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: Your little dude, never been a violent person. Just because

955
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: you fucking blakes get put through a holy shit at

956
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 2: the academy, whether you're a big, small, short, or tall,

957
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: fat or is getting whatever happened to the fucking copper

958
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: that had to be six foot tall and bulletproof, and

959
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: now they put in all these little fat fucks that

960
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: couldn't even run themselves in a ten meter race.

961
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: Gone on the day of the six foot cops. Although

962
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: I've seen some little cops that can go, but not.

963
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 2: Only there's a seven foot four one.

964
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw the picture of that. That's that's incredible.

965
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: But what I was going to say, I just I

966
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: feel like I just needed to defend the police here

967
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: a little bit in about the resentment that you get

968
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: where you're treated that way cops, not all cops, but

969
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: the hard working cops. Sometimes they put themselves out there

970
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: and they're constantly being abused and all that. And you know,

971
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: if you've that might be where they cross the line.

972
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: You know, how you talk about how in bred that

973
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: hate is. Or if a cop turns up every every

974
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: day at work and is getting abused, getting bashed, getting

975
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: injured and all that, maybe change a little bit that

976
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: way too. So I think we've got to just balance

977
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: balance it.

978
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 2: Out of here. No no, no fair call. Then change

979
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: your fucking job.

980
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, don't be an out around.

981
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 2: Well, even when you're not, you're still classed as fuck.

982
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I get pulled over now, and you

983
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: know it's an instant intel check. I had a highway

984
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 2: patrol officer pull me over only a few months ago

985
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 2: and and I mean this sincerely. This has not been

986
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: a fucking goose. This has been really honest. So he

987
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: pulls me over and I said, what was the problem.

988
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 2: He says, I, mate, it's it's a it's one hundred

989
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 2: caz on you're going one hundred and six or one

990
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 2: hundred and seven? I said, ship, apologies were it goes

991
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 2: just your license please, and goes back to he's carrying

992
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 2: as I'll be back in a second. Comes up and

993
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 2: he goes, so you got anything in the car? Said no,

994
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 2: said you're welcome and go through it. He goes, so

995
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: are you still with the omc G group?

996
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: And I said what?

997
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 2: He said, Oh, well, I'm just asking you the question.

998
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: Can you answer the question? I said no, I'm not

999
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 2: going to fucking answer the question. I said, oh, I'm

1000
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 2: going to say it is this. That's how pathetic your

1001
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 2: intel is. And he goes, oh, oh, hang on a

1002
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 2: second bigger. I said no, No, I said, I'm fed

1003
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: up with this. I said, twenty ten. What year are

1004
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 2: we in now? Twenty twenty four? I said, and your

1005
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: intel still tells you that I am a part of

1006
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: an omc G. And he turned around and he said

1007
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 2: to me, he walked away, and he come back and

1008
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 2: he said, listen. He said, I can understand you're firing up.

1009
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 2: I said, well, no, I'm sick of it. I said,

1010
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 2: that's not my life. I said, but once again, I said,

1011
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: nine times out of ten, if that had happened in

1012
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: the past, i'd know because he'd sit in his car.

1013
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: Next minute you'd see him come from everywhere, right, so

1014
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: you knew the squad was coming. That didn't happen. But

1015
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 2: what he did say to me was that they never

1016
00:52:55,239 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 2: remove that sort of intel from the computers. Well, that

1017
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: it's there. So no matter whether you turn into a

1018
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: priest or you give your heart and soul to whatever

1019
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: else it is out there to be doing good in

1020
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: this world. In this community, we talk about constantly being

1021
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 2: I guess judged or looked at. And I'm not sitting

1022
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: here saying that he was just doing his job. I

1023
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 2: got caught doing six k's or seven k's over the

1024
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 2: limit that was on me. But the intel that was

1025
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: on the computer that he didn't know me from a bar.

1026
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: So that looks at that and goes, well, hang on

1027
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: a sec, he's a club member. Yeah, And next minute

1028
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: I'm getting turned upside down. Which I didn't but could

1029
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 2: have and has happened in the past, turned upside down

1030
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 2: on the side of the end month.

1031
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: Well see, I like what, well, you're right, you're right.

1032
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying credit where credit stear at least

1033
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: the cop didn't escalade and get his back up.

1034
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: You No, no, no, that's what I'm saying.

1035
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: I'm not.

1036
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not sitting here saying that he did

1037
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: wrong and I'm not.

1038
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: You make a valid point there, Like you know, we

1039
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: look at and I'm thinking if I was a cop

1040
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 1: pulled over, I would look at you link to OMCG

1041
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,399
Speaker 1: and then you're thinking, oh, that that was twenty ten,

1042
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: that's where fourteen years ago. All right, look again and

1043
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: you laugh at this one after just after I was

1044
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: charged and it became public, I was driving with my son.

1045
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: I've been up to help my mother was moving. So

1046
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: it was a Sunday morning. Yeah, we don't have the

1047
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: tickets anymore on the registration My car registrations and expired

1048
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: the day before. I get pulled over highway patrol and

1049
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: I have didn't say I think I didn't say, you know,

1050
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: I think you know who I am. I'm in the

1051
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: cops because I wasn't in the cops any well, I've

1052
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: been charged Joe citizen. So yeah, I just and have

1053
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: where you off to? And I said, I'm just coming home.

1054
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: Have you had anything to drink? And I had two

1055
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: beers last night last at seven o'clock or whatever. It's

1056
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: ten o'clock in the morning, and I smell alcohol and

1057
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: I said, blew me and it came back negative, obviously,

1058
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 1: and he's gone, that's interesting. And then went and sat

1059
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: in the police car and I could see him on

1060
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: the phone, smiling, laughing. No doubt by that time he

1061
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: knows who I am and what comes back. I want

1062
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: to do another test, and I know I'm with him.

1063
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: The rights to say, you know, like enough is enough

1064
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: came back. My son's sitting there. My son's an adult

1065
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: like he's in his twenties, sitting there in the suit.

1066
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: Blow it again. This cop was just humiliating me, just

1067
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: degrading me. I'm sitting there, just okay, don't snap, don't snap.

1068
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: And then he looks at my son, have you been drinking?

1069
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,479
Speaker 1: And what? Well, that's exactly what I wanted to say,

1070
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: but I just let my son answer it, and no,

1071
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: I haven't been drinking. I'm smelling alcohol. I said, I've

1072
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: just had amandain. Maybe you're smelling mandarin. The skin went

1073
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: on and on and talked about you know you haven't

1074
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: your car's not registered. I said, I'm sorry, when did

1075
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: the day before? I'm sorry, what are you being up to? Well,

1076
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: it's actually helping my mother move, not that it's any

1077
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: of your business. I was kept there for about fifteen minutes,

1078
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty minutes, and I just got the shits. I said,

1079
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: you've had your fun. Now you write me up a

1080
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: ticket or just leave me alone. But I'm not playing

1081
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: this game anymore. That one person just pissed me off

1082
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: so much. I hated cops for a long time then,

1083
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: just the one. And I was saying to my son there,

1084
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: that's why people get a bad name, like the way

1085
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: he was treating me. But he was having fun because

1086
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: now I was the ex cop or the shamed cop,

1087
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: and he's a little highway patrol dude that was just

1088
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: going to make life hard for fuck your day, yeah,

1089
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: and humiliate me in front of my son and for

1090
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: someone like me, and I understand.

1091
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: And that goes back to what I said to you

1092
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 2: earlier in our chat in reference to and I get it.

1093
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 2: I get it. Look, you having intel hypothetically ill use

1094
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 2: me is a case you got intel on me. I've

1095
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 2: allegedly sold CBD oil to and undercover police officer through

1096
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 2: my Instagram. Next minute, you're kicking my door in at

1097
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 2: four point thirty quarter five in the morning, waking my

1098
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 2: kids up. The kids are freaking screaming, you know, the

1099
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 2: wife's freaking out. And I'm basically obviously well aware of

1100
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 2: what it is that you're doing. But you're coming through

1101
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 2: like you know, a bullet at a gate for what.

1102
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, and there's no need for it. Really,

1103
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think like I can't sit here

1104
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: as this innocent. I played hardball when I was in

1105
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: the cops, but I had my moral code. And we

1106
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: talk about moral codes. I think it's important bikes have

1107
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: moral codes. I can understand moral code that you guys

1108
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: might have. I might agree with it, but I can

1109
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 1: respect that. Okay, Well, if this happens, we're going to

1110
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: do this, blah blah blah, I understand it. But yeah,

1111
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: if people power corrupts, you have power. As a biky,

1112
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: I think you've got power. You can walk into the

1113
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: pub and create all sorts of dramas. People are going

1114
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: to back off, and it corrupts cops have power, and

1115
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: power crops corrupts cops. So we're just need to check yourself.

1116
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 2: On it sometimes.

1117
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: Fair call if you had your fun with me yet.

1118
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 2: You know, like I'm going to say, and I'm glad

1119
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 2: that we got to really just yeah, none, I'm glad

1120
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: we got to butt heads a bit there because I feel,

1121
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: like I said in the beginning, you know it needed

1122
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 2: to be had. On a serious note, though, there's there

1123
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 2: is a sort of a meeting place I guess where

1124
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 2: we're both come to. I don't even know what the

1125
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: word what should we call it? A happy place?

1126
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: Why are you're punching your fists together?

1127
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,479
Speaker 2: We've still got our gloves. I remember when we jumped

1128
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 2: in the ring to have a crack at each The

1129
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: gloves aren't off yet. And I'm sure there's a few

1130
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: lesson rights you want to throw right now.

1131
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: I've got one good fight.

1132
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 2: Look, look, we're both trying to make a difference in

1133
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 2: this world today. Put aside our pass where Joe's citizens today,

1134
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 2: where you're not you're not an officer of the law.

1135
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm not a career criminal and buy club member. What

1136
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 2: I am is a man is compassionate, caring and trying

1137
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 2: to help people in a better way through their choices

1138
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 2: of life using my lived experience as you can do

1139
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 2: as well.

1140
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, forgetting everything that's gone before with our difference

1141
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: is one thing that I think we're on the same path.

1142
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: And I know, like you've done your research on me

1143
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: before I've come here. I'm not okay, I'm stupid. Then

1144
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: you got me up here and I thought it was

1145
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: a fluffy you sing Kumbaia and you.

1146
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 2: Know Poppa that Sai's a keeper.

1147
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: Now you've done a lot, a lot of time in jail.

1148
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: How do you feel when you come out of jail?

1149
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: Are you angry or what?

1150
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 2: Look Gary, why don't we just stop here and we'll

1151
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: talk about this in the next episode of the Click?

1152
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: Okay? Can we also call it our Catch Killers Click

1153
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: and I Catch Kills? Come on, You've got to compromise,

1154
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: but it's.

1155
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: Going out on both platforms.

1156
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: This one beautiful

1157
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 2: In nine mm