1
00:00:01,389 --> 00:00:09,570
Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones, and you're listening to 7am. Last week,

2
00:00:09,690 --> 00:00:13,960
Speaker 1: countries including the UK, Canada and France announced plans to

3
00:00:13,990 --> 00:00:17,419
Speaker 1: restrict trade with Israeli settlements in the West Bank. In

4
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,940
Speaker 1: the past, Australia has joined its overseas allies in actions

5
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,880
Speaker 1: on Israel. This time, it's different, with Foreign Affairs Minister

6
00:00:24,980 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: Penny Wong saying Australia isn't considering joining the ban.

7
00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:30,270
Speaker 2: So why not?

8
00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:33,910
Speaker 1: Today, Commissioner on the UN's Commission of Inquiry into the

9
00:00:33,950 --> 00:00:39,530
Speaker 1: Occupied Palestinian Territories and Israel, Chris Sidoti, on Australia's responsibilities

10
00:00:39,810 --> 00:00:49,900
Speaker 1: and its failures. It's Thursday, September 17.

11
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,090
Speaker 3: The British government agrees that there is ethnic cleansing of

12
00:00:57,110 --> 00:01:02,490
Speaker 3: Palestinians in areas of the West Bank. perpetrated by settler terrorists.

13
00:01:02,510 --> 00:01:06,300
Speaker 1: So Chris, Britain, France, Canada, they've all announced new restrictions

14
00:01:06,470 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 1: on Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

15
00:01:08,780 --> 00:01:10,760
Speaker 3: Today I announced that the official view of the British

16
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,320
Speaker 3: government is that the occupation is unlawful.

17
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,060
Speaker 1: Tell me to begin with what it is that they've

18
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 1: actually agreed to do and the significance of this.

19
00:01:20,740 --> 00:01:23,420
Speaker 4: The most significant thing they've agreed to do is to

20
00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:28,660
Speaker 4: put a sanction on or prohibit trade with the settlements themselves.

21
00:01:29,230 --> 00:01:32,170
Speaker 3: I do not believe the British people want us supporting

22
00:01:32,209 --> 00:01:35,950
Speaker 3: the occupation by accepting products from settlements in our shops

23
00:01:36,069 --> 00:01:38,690
Speaker 3: and supermarkets. So I can announce today that we will

24
00:01:38,709 --> 00:01:41,890
Speaker 3: introduce an import ban on goods from illegal settlements in

25
00:01:41,930 --> 00:01:43,210
Speaker 3: the occupied territories.

26
00:01:44,790 --> 00:01:48,230
Speaker 4: That's a very important step. The International Court of Justice

27
00:01:48,270 --> 00:01:51,330
Speaker 4: said more than two years ago that all states have

28
00:01:51,390 --> 00:01:55,980
Speaker 4: obligations under international law to end all aid or assistance

29
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 4: to the expansion or maintenance of Israeli settlements.

30
00:01:59,140 --> 00:02:02,740
Speaker 5: The court affirms, as it did in its whole advisory opinion,

31
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,860
Speaker 5: that the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East

32
00:02:06,980 --> 00:02:11,650
Speaker 5: Jerusalem and the regime associated with them have been established

33
00:02:11,930 --> 00:02:15,450
Speaker 5: and are being maintained in violation of international law.

34
00:02:15,730 --> 00:02:19,340
Speaker 4: And so this is a belated response to that. There

35
00:02:19,419 --> 00:02:22,639
Speaker 4: are additional measures that they're taking as well, including sanctioning

36
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,060
Speaker 4: more individuals. But the most significant thing is the prohibition

37
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,260
Speaker 4: on trade with the settlements.

38
00:02:28,780 --> 00:02:31,510
Speaker 1: Okay, so you say that this is a belated response,

39
00:02:31,550 --> 00:02:32,950
Speaker 1: but what has triggered it?

40
00:02:33,090 --> 00:02:34,230
Speaker 2: Why now?

41
00:02:34,310 --> 00:02:37,110
Speaker 1: What's happened in the West Bank that's pushed these governments

42
00:02:37,169 --> 00:02:37,830
Speaker 1: to this point?

43
00:02:38,810 --> 00:02:43,010
Speaker 4: I think that the triggering events have been the escalation

44
00:02:43,050 --> 00:02:45,970
Speaker 4: of settler violence over the last eight months.

45
00:02:48,950 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 6: Footage filmed from the family compound shows young settlers beating

46
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:54,400
Speaker 6: on the gate with clubs.

47
00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,240
Speaker 4: It's been getting worse progressively since September 2023, so over

48
00:03:00,260 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 4: the last three years. But particularly this year, it's become

49
00:03:03,780 --> 00:03:07,050
Speaker 4: extremely serious. Settlers are working hand in glove with the

50
00:03:07,090 --> 00:03:07,910
Speaker 4: Israeli military.

51
00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:13,490
Speaker 6: Soldiers stroll up and gently move them away. From inside,

52
00:03:13,510 --> 00:03:17,359
Speaker 6: a woman screams at the settlers to leave as they

53
00:03:17,419 --> 00:03:18,179
Speaker 6: smash the gate.

54
00:03:19,230 --> 00:03:23,370
Speaker 4: The military either stands back and lets the settlers loose

55
00:03:23,750 --> 00:03:29,580
Speaker 4: on Palestinian villagers and villagers, men, women and children. Or alternatively,

56
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,079
Speaker 4: the military actually intervenes on the side of the settlers.

57
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,380
Speaker 6: The soldiers standing beside them make no attempt to question,

58
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 6: detain or even confiscate their clubs.

59
00:03:40,580 --> 00:03:44,530
Speaker 4: There have been many incidents where settlers have been attacking villagers.

60
00:03:45,050 --> 00:03:48,780
Speaker 4: The villagers have called for assistance. And when the military

61
00:03:48,820 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 4: has come, instead of protecting the villages from the settlers,

62
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:54,420
Speaker 4: they've attacked the villages.

63
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 6: As Israeli forces fire live rounds and stun grenades and

64
00:04:01,490 --> 00:04:04,970
Speaker 6: launch tear gas canisters into the fields, setting them ablaze.

65
00:04:05,890 --> 00:04:08,810
Speaker 6: From the roof, we watch a dozen settler vehicles drive

66
00:04:08,930 --> 00:04:10,110
Speaker 6: freely out of the village.

67
00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:14,990
Speaker 4: So this close relationship between the settlers and the military

68
00:04:15,490 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 4: and the increase in killings by both has been the

69
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,369
Speaker 4: event that has provoked these 12 states into finally taking action.

70
00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:29,650
Speaker 1: And Australia is not one of these 12 states. Tell

71
00:04:29,690 --> 00:04:32,470
Speaker 1: me a bit about the Australian government's response.

72
00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:36,219
Speaker 4: I have no way of understanding the Australian government's response.

73
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 4: They flip-flop all over the place. The foreign minister has

74
00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:43,180
Speaker 4: been saying repeatedly in recent years, we act in conjunction

75
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,690
Speaker 4: with our international partners. And that was the excuse given

76
00:04:46,750 --> 00:04:50,740
Speaker 4: for Australia's delay in recognising the state of Palestine. When

77
00:04:50,770 --> 00:04:53,660
Speaker 4: it finally did so, a little over a year ago,

78
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,720
Speaker 4: it did so in conjunction with its international partners, the

79
00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,700
Speaker 4: very states that are now imposing these sanctions on the settlements.

80
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,160
Speaker 2: We are working with the international community towards the UN

81
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,980
Speaker 2: meeting in September in relation to a pathway to two states.

82
00:05:10,570 --> 00:05:12,589
Speaker 4: And yet this time the Foreign Minister has said that

83
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,070
Speaker 4: we will not be acting in concert with our international partners.

84
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,539
Speaker 2: Today I can announce Australia is pursuing further targeted measures

85
00:05:19,620 --> 00:05:23,240
Speaker 2: in coordination with international partners to deter illegal settlements and

86
00:05:23,300 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 2: settler violence. Australia is not at this time pursuing a

87
00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 2: blanket-style import ban.

88
00:05:29,380 --> 00:05:33,320
Speaker 4: Now she hasn't explained why this change of policy has occurred,

89
00:05:33,380 --> 00:05:37,020
Speaker 4: why it's seen as desirable now or even necessary now.

90
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,469
Speaker 4: And similarly, the reason that she gave for Australia's position

91
00:05:42,210 --> 00:05:45,480
Speaker 4: is that we are worried about unintended consequences.

92
00:05:45,660 --> 00:05:48,340
Speaker 2: We have concerns about the implementation of a blanket ban

93
00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 2: and unintended consequences for Australian businesses, for Palestinians and for Israelis.

94
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,430
Speaker 4: But again, no explanation. For years, the government has been

95
00:05:57,490 --> 00:05:59,750
Speaker 4: saying that it would take no action in relation to

96
00:05:59,810 --> 00:06:03,750
Speaker 4: trade with settlements because there was so little Australian trade

97
00:06:03,790 --> 00:06:06,730
Speaker 4: with the settlements. And now the minister is concerned about

98
00:06:06,750 --> 00:06:10,220
Speaker 4: the impact on Australian business. You can't have it both ways.

99
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,140
Speaker 4: You can't say there's virtually no trade on the one hand,

100
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,159
Speaker 4: and yet we're worried about the impact on Australian business.

101
00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,120
Speaker 4: And what is the impact on Palestinians and Israelis that

102
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,220
Speaker 4: the minister is so worried about? My concern is that

103
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 4: we are getting no explanations for Australian government policy, particularly

104
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,719
Speaker 4: changes in policy, when our international partners, the traditional partners,

105
00:06:32,779 --> 00:06:35,040
Speaker 4: are acting and we're refusing to do so.

106
00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:41,340
Speaker 1: And Australia has said that targeted measures are a better

107
00:06:41,380 --> 00:06:45,380
Speaker 1: way to approach this. We have already sanctioned individual settlers,

108
00:06:45,500 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 1: organisations and Israeli ministers. So what have those sanctions achieved?

109
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,719
Speaker 4: Individual sanctions are important. I don't minimise their significance at all.

110
00:06:56,220 --> 00:06:59,580
Speaker 4: We've sanctioned two Israeli ministers, only two, but at least

111
00:06:59,620 --> 00:07:03,030
Speaker 4: we have sanctioned two. We've sanctioned a number of individual

112
00:07:03,790 --> 00:07:06,910
Speaker 4: settlers and who are identified as the most extreme of

113
00:07:06,970 --> 00:07:10,330
Speaker 4: the settlers. We've also imposed sanctions on a couple of

114
00:07:10,410 --> 00:07:15,250
Speaker 4: settlement organisations, but not many. Now, I see that as important,

115
00:07:16,010 --> 00:07:19,010
Speaker 4: but it's not the whole story, nor is it even

116
00:07:19,030 --> 00:07:23,490
Speaker 4: the most effective story. There is a need to sanction

117
00:07:23,530 --> 00:07:27,910
Speaker 4: the system and not just isolated individuals. We need to

118
00:07:28,030 --> 00:07:32,050
Speaker 4: strike at the very basis upon which the settlements are

119
00:07:32,090 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 4: maintained and and expanded. This is what the International Court

120
00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:38,980
Speaker 4: of Justice said we have an obligation to do. Certainly

121
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,260
Speaker 4: the settlement project itself has the strong, vocal, explicit support

122
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,180
Speaker 4: with financial backing from the state of Israel. There is

123
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 4: no doubt about that.

124
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,380
Speaker 7: We will continue to build a fulfilling Jewish reality. This

125
00:07:54,460 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 7: reality definitively buries the idea of a Palestinian state simply

126
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,400
Speaker 7: because there is nothing to recognise and no one to recognise.

127
00:08:02,810 --> 00:08:07,460
Speaker 4: And so sanctioning at an institutional or systemic level is

128
00:08:07,540 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 4: critical to having an impact on the state of Israel

129
00:08:10,050 --> 00:08:10,770
Speaker 4: and its policy.

130
00:08:13,790 --> 00:08:27,130
Speaker 1: Still to come is politics behind Australia's softer stance. As

131
00:08:27,150 --> 00:08:30,710
Speaker 1: you mentioned, until a few months ago, Australia was acting

132
00:08:30,770 --> 00:08:35,730
Speaker 1: alongside Britain and France and Canada in these coordinated sanctions

133
00:08:36,090 --> 00:08:41,410
Speaker 1: against violent settlers and settlement-linked entities. So what do you

134
00:08:41,470 --> 00:08:42,850
Speaker 1: see that's changed here?

135
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,140
Speaker 4: Not just coordinating sanctions against individuals, but we acted jointly

136
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,500
Speaker 4: with the United Kingdom, France, Canada and many other states

137
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,390
Speaker 4: to On a number of occasions, in relation to the

138
00:08:55,450 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 4: recognition of the state of Palestine, in relation to voting

139
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 4: patterns in the United Nations, General Assembly, in the Human

140
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,600
Speaker 4: Rights Council and other UN forums, in joint statements that

141
00:09:06,620 --> 00:09:10,020
Speaker 4: have been made repeatedly over the last three years in particular.

142
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,780
Speaker 4: So what's changed is that we are no longer doing

143
00:09:12,820 --> 00:09:15,590
Speaker 4: that and we haven't explained why. And that's a very

144
00:09:15,730 --> 00:09:18,750
Speaker 4: significant change in policy from the Australian government.

145
00:09:18,970 --> 00:09:19,150
Speaker 2: Hmm.

146
00:09:19,890 --> 00:09:23,190
Speaker 1: How much of Australia's reluctance here do you think is

147
00:09:23,230 --> 00:09:27,089
Speaker 1: being driven by domestic politics? Obviously, since the Bondi attack,

148
00:09:27,130 --> 00:09:31,260
Speaker 1: Labor has been under enormous pressure of anti-Semitism. We've just

149
00:09:31,300 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 1: been through months of the Royal Commission. Do you think

150
00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:37,600
Speaker 1: that's made the government more resistant to taking any stronger action?

151
00:09:38,380 --> 00:09:42,490
Speaker 4: Certainly, many commentators, political commentators who are far better informed

152
00:09:42,530 --> 00:09:44,949
Speaker 4: than I am about the thinking in the Australian government,

153
00:09:45,890 --> 00:09:49,070
Speaker 4: have expressed the view that that's the case. Many Australian

154
00:09:49,990 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 4: academic experts and non-government organisations have said the same thing.

155
00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:57,689
Speaker 4: All I can say is that I simply do not

156
00:09:57,809 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 4: know because the government has not explicitly itself. I can't

157
00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:06,679
Speaker 4: say what's motivating this. Perhaps it's domestic politics, but that's

158
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 4: not what the minister is saying or what the prime

159
00:10:08,780 --> 00:10:11,750
Speaker 4: minister is saying, and it's impossible to know what they're

160
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:12,530
Speaker 4: thinking and why.

161
00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:15,070
Speaker 1: How concerned are you by that lack of transparency?

162
00:10:15,809 --> 00:10:19,220
Speaker 4: As an Australian, I'm very concerned. There needs to be

163
00:10:19,260 --> 00:10:23,010
Speaker 4: transparency from government. We have an elected government. They are

164
00:10:23,090 --> 00:10:26,570
Speaker 4: accountable to the Australian people. And we can't hold them

165
00:10:26,590 --> 00:10:29,970
Speaker 4: to account unless we know what's going on. So I'm

166
00:10:30,010 --> 00:10:34,150
Speaker 4: very concerned as an Australian citizen. As a commissioner on

167
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 4: a UN commission of inquiry, I look for accountability and

168
00:10:38,420 --> 00:10:42,480
Speaker 4: transparency from all states in relation to the situation in

169
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:47,570
Speaker 4: Palestine and Israel. And we criticise states that are not transparent.

170
00:10:48,429 --> 00:10:50,950
Speaker 4: I have to criticise the Australian government on that basis

171
00:10:51,010 --> 00:10:51,350
Speaker 4: as well.

172
00:10:51,730 --> 00:10:55,470
Speaker 1: And there's another case where Australia has demanded action from

173
00:10:55,610 --> 00:10:58,190
Speaker 1: Israel and hasn't got it. That's the case of Australian

174
00:10:58,330 --> 00:11:01,690
Speaker 1: aid worker Zomi Francom, who was killed in an Israeli

175
00:11:01,770 --> 00:11:04,220
Speaker 1: airstrike on a World Central kitchen convoy that was in

176
00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:07,260
Speaker 1: Gaza last year. Where has that case ended up?

177
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,540
Speaker 4: Again, at the moment, it's in some kind of a

178
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,420
Speaker 4: no-man's land. The minister has said that she's criticised the

179
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,819
Speaker 4: Israeli government She's consulting with Zomi Francom's family.

180
00:11:19,059 --> 00:11:22,420
Speaker 1: I'd just like it to be resolved as soon as possible.

181
00:11:22,540 --> 00:11:25,610
Speaker 1: I don't want to be doing the rounds on her

182
00:11:25,650 --> 00:11:28,890
Speaker 1: anniversary next year in the exact same position.

183
00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:32,290
Speaker 4: She said that she will take further action following consultation.

184
00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:35,110
Speaker 4: There's no indication at this stage as to where that

185
00:11:35,150 --> 00:11:38,420
Speaker 4: consultation is up to or when any announcement of further

186
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,500
Speaker 4: action will be taken. So I'm looking for that and

187
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:42,980
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to that.

188
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,969
Speaker 2: Today I called in Ambassador... Hillel Newman, the Israeli ambassador

189
00:11:49,010 --> 00:11:52,830
Speaker 2: to Australia. And I made clear to him Australia's views,

190
00:11:53,890 --> 00:11:57,850
Speaker 2: that Israel's decision falls far short of the accountability we expect.

191
00:11:58,510 --> 00:12:01,710
Speaker 4: I indicated at the time that the Israeli ambassador in

192
00:12:01,770 --> 00:12:06,750
Speaker 4: Australia was so cavalier in dismissing Australian concerns that he

193
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:07,950
Speaker 4: should be sent home.

194
00:12:08,350 --> 00:12:11,250
Speaker 2: One must also understand that not every case where someone

195
00:12:11,309 --> 00:12:12,430
Speaker 2: dies is casualty.

196
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:14,130
Speaker 5: It means that there's criminal liability.

197
00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:17,970
Speaker 2: One cannot attack findings of a court if the findings

198
00:12:18,050 --> 00:12:20,150
Speaker 2: are not suitable to one's political agenda.

199
00:12:20,630 --> 00:12:22,990
Speaker 4: He certainly is not a fit person to be representing

200
00:12:23,050 --> 00:12:26,469
Speaker 4: any state in Australia where he seeks to interfere in

201
00:12:26,530 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 4: our domestic affairs and constantly denigrates Australian citizens. He should

202
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,319
Speaker 4: be sent home. But except for calling him in and

203
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,500
Speaker 4: having a chat to him, the minister hasn't done anything

204
00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:39,400
Speaker 4: in relation to this unfit person. And she hasn't announced

205
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,150
Speaker 4: any other action that should be taken. It needs to

206
00:12:42,190 --> 00:12:45,750
Speaker 4: be taken. It's been suggested that this case should now

207
00:12:45,790 --> 00:12:50,050
Speaker 4: be the subject of an independent international investigation in conjunction

208
00:12:50,170 --> 00:12:53,480
Speaker 4: with the United Kingdom and Canada and other states whose

209
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,340
Speaker 4: citizens were killed in that attack on the humanitarian convoy.

210
00:12:58,100 --> 00:13:01,059
Speaker 4: I think that's a good idea. Certainly, given the failure

211
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:05,260
Speaker 4: of the Israeli authorities to properly investigate these killings, there

212
00:13:05,330 --> 00:13:08,610
Speaker 4: is a need for an independent investigation of the kind

213
00:13:08,650 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 4: that has been sought. But again, the minister has not

214
00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:13,260
Speaker 4: made an announcement yet to that effect.

215
00:13:13,740 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: So if Israel continues expanding settlements and refuses Australia's demands

216
00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:23,059
Speaker 1: for accountability over Sammy Francom, what leverage do you think

217
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 1: Australia is actually prepared to use? Do you see the

218
00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:29,730
Speaker 1: Australian government being pushed into taking a stronger position?

219
00:13:30,330 --> 00:13:35,050
Speaker 4: It should be pushed by domestic pressure. But the principal

220
00:13:35,150 --> 00:13:39,870
Speaker 4: reason for being more active is international law. And here

221
00:13:39,929 --> 00:13:43,010
Speaker 4: I think the Australian government falls far short. There are

222
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:47,730
Speaker 4: many practical steps that can be taken that will comply

223
00:13:47,790 --> 00:13:51,620
Speaker 4: with our obligations under international law as set out by

224
00:13:51,650 --> 00:13:56,020
Speaker 4: the International Court of Justice. We should be banning all

225
00:13:56,179 --> 00:14:01,679
Speaker 4: two-way military-related trade with Israel. The government repeatedly says that

226
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,620
Speaker 4: there is a ban on weapons and ammunition. That's not

227
00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 4: good enough. While we continue to provide F-35 parts manufactured

228
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 4: in Australia, provide them to the Israeli military and the

229
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 4: F-35s have been used for the saturation bombing of Gaza,

230
00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 4: we are doing the wrong thing in law and ethically.

231
00:14:22,450 --> 00:14:25,370
Speaker 4: We should be stopping all two-way trade, including the import

232
00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:30,610
Speaker 4: of Israeli surveillance technology. They're very good at producing surveillance

233
00:14:30,650 --> 00:14:33,790
Speaker 4: technology and they use it all the time against Palestinians.

234
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,520
Speaker 4: If we are purchasing that from the Israeli government or

235
00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:43,170
Speaker 4: from Israeli private manufacturers, we are subsidising research, development and

236
00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:48,490
Speaker 4: production of technology that can be used against Palestinians. We

237
00:14:48,510 --> 00:14:52,430
Speaker 4: should be upgrading our representation to the state of Palestine.

238
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:56,140
Speaker 4: We have recognised Palestine, but we have not established an embassy.

239
00:14:57,300 --> 00:14:59,620
Speaker 4: We should have an embassy in Tel Aviv and we

240
00:14:59,660 --> 00:15:02,900
Speaker 4: should have an embassy to the Palestinian Authority as well.

241
00:15:03,660 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 4: We should certainly be banning all trade in goods and

242
00:15:06,980 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 4: services with the settlements.

243
00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 2: We should be.

244
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 4: Stopping the practice whereby Australian taxpayers indirectly fund those settlements.

245
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 4: There are Australian organisations registered as charities that collect money

246
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:26,660
Speaker 4: in Australia and provide them to Israeli organisations that fund

247
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,250
Speaker 4: those settlements. And Australian donations to those charities are tax deductible.

248
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,460
Speaker 4: That means, Ruby, that you and I are subsidising the

249
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,430
Speaker 4: money that is going to the settlements through providing tax

250
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:45,390
Speaker 4: deductibility for those donations. We should be investigating anyone who

251
00:15:45,630 --> 00:15:48,210
Speaker 4: is of military age and has served in the Israeli

252
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:52,170
Speaker 4: military in Gaza over the last three years if they

253
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:56,750
Speaker 4: come to Australia. And that applies particularly to Australian citizens

254
00:15:57,250 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 4: who are joint citizens of and return to Australia after

255
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,150
Speaker 4: serving with the Israeli military. They must be treated as suspects.

256
00:16:04,290 --> 00:16:07,810
Speaker 4: Our commission of inquiry has found that the Israeli military

257
00:16:07,890 --> 00:16:11,270
Speaker 4: has committed the crime of genocide, war crimes and crimes

258
00:16:11,310 --> 00:16:15,100
Speaker 4: against humanity in Gaza. And so anybody who has served

259
00:16:15,150 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 4: in Gaza with the Israeli military must be considered a suspect.

260
00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 4: And we should also prohibit Australians from serving with foreign

261
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 4: military forces. We prohibit that in relation to non-state armed

262
00:16:28,070 --> 00:16:31,900
Speaker 4: groups But we don't prohibit that in relation to militaries,

263
00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 4: and we should do so. So these are all very

264
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 4: practical steps that are easily taken, that comply with Australia's

265
00:16:40,380 --> 00:16:44,830
Speaker 4: international legal obligations, and for which there is no excuse

266
00:16:44,890 --> 00:16:46,170
Speaker 4: whatsoever not to take.

267
00:16:48,630 --> 00:16:50,250
Speaker 1: Chris, thank you so much for your time.

268
00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:51,070
Speaker 2: Thanks, Ruby.

269
00:16:51,090 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 4: It's good to talk to you.

270
00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:10,020
Speaker 1: Also in the news, Greens Senator David Shoebridge says Labor

271
00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:13,060
Speaker 1: has turned away from the minor party's offer of alternative

272
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,740
Speaker 1: solutions to Australia's migration program. Tony Burke will announce Labor's

273
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,719
Speaker 1: highly anticipated migration overhaul today, a month after he was

274
00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:25,609
Speaker 1: forced to postpone a planned address. Shoebridge says Labor is

275
00:17:25,670 --> 00:17:28,609
Speaker 1: not engaging with the Greens' offers to support targets based

276
00:17:28,670 --> 00:17:32,350
Speaker 1: on universities, business and family needs and reduce temporary visa

277
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:35,409
Speaker 1: numbers by funding extra processing for people waiting on their

278
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 1: permanent visas. And FBI Director Kash Patel has been grilled

279
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:42,619
Speaker 1: by the US Senate for nearly five hours over his

280
00:17:42,660 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: controversial management of the agency, including the ousting of experienced agents.

281
00:17:47,859 --> 00:17:50,879
Speaker 1: Patel suggested that the scope of the firings had been overblown,

282
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:54,950
Speaker 1: saying many agents had retired. He also refused to pledge

283
00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:59,250
Speaker 1: the FBI wouldn't interfere in midterm elections. I'm Ruby Jones.

284
00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:00,110
Speaker 1: This is 7am.

285
00:18:00,130 --> 00:18:01,190
Speaker 6: Thanks for listening.

286
00:18:06,270 --> 00:18:06,330
Speaker 5: You