Speaker 1: I'll get ada, Bloody Champions. Welcome to another installment of
Speaker 1: the You Project. And when I say the You Project,
Speaker 1: not really, well it is, but it isn't. Every now
Speaker 1: and then I do what's called a co share, where
Speaker 1: I've been on someone else's show and we do this
Speaker 1: the other way around to where they've been on my show.
Speaker 1: But I was recently on Josh Pitterman. Josh Pitterman, Me Me,
Speaker 1: me me, you know miserrab and, Phantom of the Opera
Speaker 1: and that world famous, famous or famous even singer, that
Speaker 1: Australian product too. He and I have become good friends anyway.
Speaker 1: He's got a amazing podcast called Behind the Mask, Behind
Speaker 1: the Mask, you know, Phantom of the Opera, Mask, all
Speaker 1: that shit. Yep, Sure I didn't need to explain that, Okay.
Speaker 1: Bianca Chatfield, who's also a friend of mine, who played
Speaker 1: Neddie for Australia Australian Diamonds, she was vice captain, she
Speaker 1: played a million tests, she won Bloody, Commonwealth Games and
Speaker 1: World Champs and she's a souperstar. Anyway, Bianca and myself
Speaker 1: were on Josh's show recently. It went for a long
Speaker 1: time one for a long time. I'm going to say
Speaker 1: he's chatty, she's chatty, I'm chatty. It was a very
Speaker 1: verbose experience all round, and we spoke about success. We
Speaker 1: did a deep dive of success is different things for
Speaker 1: different people. Different for the fantom of the opera to
Speaker 1: the elite ex athlete now media personality and the ex
Speaker 1: fat kid from Latrobalu who's trying to figure out what
Speaker 1: the fuck he's doing. All different. But it was a
Speaker 1: really interesting conversation. So I've decided to take that very
Speaker 1: long conversation and chop it in two to create two
Speaker 1: installments of the project for your edification, for your uplifting. Anyway,
Speaker 1: here it is have a good day.
Speaker 2: My guest today, I know strangers to successes. The anchor
Speaker 2: Chatfield is the former vice captain of the Australian women's
Speaker 2: netball team, the Diamonds. She won gold medals at the
Speaker 2: Commonwealth Games and the World Netball Championships. Since retiring, she's
Speaker 2: gone on to do many things, a role as a
Speaker 2: keynote speaker, she was a contestant on the Block and
Speaker 2: she commentates on Fox Sports. Craig Harper is one of
Speaker 2: Australia's most renowned leaders in health high performance, corporate change
Speaker 2: and personal transformation. He founded, owned and ran Harper's Personal
Speaker 2: Training for over twenty five years, which I believe is
Speaker 2: the first personal training studio in the country.
Speaker 3: He is also a renowned keynote speaker.
Speaker 2: Craig has become a dear friend of mine and a
Speaker 2: great mentor. He's an exercise scientist who you may have
Speaker 2: seen on radio and television over many, many years, and
Speaker 2: he's just about to complete his PhD in neuropsychology. Just
Speaker 2: add that to the mix of successes. But as we know,
Speaker 2: success is often in the eyes of the beholder, who
Speaker 2: knows what's going on behind the mask of seemingly successful people.
Speaker 2: So with the help of Harps and chatters, we're going
Speaker 2: to go behind the mask of success.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, guys, love your work?
Speaker 1: True? How did he do that all in one bloody,
Speaker 1: beautiful foul swoop without auto.
Speaker 2: Without well just stuffed it up twice before?
Speaker 1: Well, you saw I had a couple of false stuff.
Speaker 1: You saw Coldplay last night. You're a bit seedy. Let's
Speaker 1: be honest. How was it?
Speaker 3: It was epic? That so epic?
Speaker 1: What do you love about him? And what did you
Speaker 1: love about the experience all of a sudden, it's my show.
Speaker 3: You're welcome podcast.
Speaker 1: Well you said, let's just make it a chat. I'm
Speaker 1: just following instructures.
Speaker 2: As you're off air. Before he went on air, it's
Speaker 2: the the very very thin veil between his persona and
Speaker 2: the and the person between the performer, between the mask
Speaker 2: and the soul behind the mask. He's just he leads
Speaker 2: with his hearts. So I mean, guys, it's just so authentic,
Speaker 2: Like it's just you feel like you have a gateway
Speaker 2: into this guy's heart and his talent and all of that.
Speaker 2: But in the process, he creates a oneness. And I
Speaker 2: think that's what you know in a world is so
Speaker 2: separate and so divided and has so much tunis, so
Speaker 2: much duality. Are you you know? Are you positive or negative?
Speaker 2: Are you Trump or Paris? Are you this or that? Like,
Speaker 2: he removes the separate the tunis, the separateness, and he
Speaker 2: finds the oneness and so fifty five thousand people all
Speaker 2: become one with him, and that is a beautiful power
Speaker 2: to be able to have and because we need that
Speaker 2: one that's because it's that's love, you know, and ultimately
Speaker 2: it's love that coalesce is the universe, so we need
Speaker 2: to feel that, we need to feel out more than
Speaker 2: ever at the moment. So he's such a good conduit,
Speaker 2: an amazing conduit for love.
Speaker 4: And you know, I got that experience. I think when
Speaker 4: I went to Taylor Swift earlier this year. I mean, Craiger,
Speaker 4: you would have been at Taylor.
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I love a bit of I mean clearly they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: someone bought their granddad awesome.
Speaker 4: Going into the MCG, which is obviously usually sport. It's
Speaker 4: usually two different teams or two different countries playing against
Speaker 4: each other in cricket, And for me what resonated the most.
Speaker 4: I wasn't a massive Taylor Swift fan beforehand, but being
Speaker 4: able to go into the ground and experience every single
Speaker 4: person in that ground just there was just so much
Speaker 4: joy and so much love, and everyone was on the
Speaker 4: same team and everybody just wanted to go there to
Speaker 4: have the most positive experience. And I was learning from
Speaker 4: all these little girls who were trying to trade their
Speaker 4: friendship bracelets with you, and there was just kind of.
Speaker 5: No hierarchy at all.
Speaker 4: It was just everyone was there to experience this moment
Speaker 4: in time, and I really felt it.
Speaker 3: I walked away.
Speaker 4: I do some work with the MCG, and I walked
Speaker 4: away from that and said, every single person who is
Speaker 4: on you know, the trust, the MCG trust with me
Speaker 4: had to realize that this was a real game changing
Speaker 4: moment for at Victoria. I think and what we use
Speaker 4: the ground for, because it's far more than just something
Speaker 4: that we go and watch sport for. It's far more
Speaker 4: than something entertainment like. It's actually these life changing moments
Speaker 4: and these beautiful connections that we can bring everybody by
Speaker 4: having people like Taylor Swift play at that venue and
Speaker 4: so many hundreds, you know, one hundred thousand people can
Speaker 4: go in there and enjoy that experience altogether. And it
Speaker 4: wasn't about alcohol, It wasn't about you know, what you
Speaker 4: could kind of how much you could dream, just to
Speaker 4: have a good time. Everyone was just high on life
Speaker 4: and it was just amazing to experience.
Speaker 2: I just want to speak to that and continue on
Speaker 2: that thread of oneness and twois were used to a
Speaker 2: venue like the MCG being a place for positive tunis.
Speaker 2: You know, are you going for Brizzy or going for
Speaker 2: the Swans and the Grand Fite, like yeah, one or
Speaker 2: the other. Are you going for assis are you going
Speaker 2: for India this summer? And cricket, But it's that space
Speaker 2: can also be a place for amazing oneness and music
Speaker 2: is a vehicle for oneness, like because we're all feeling
Speaker 2: into the same same thing. So I think these meeting grounds,
Speaker 2: these amazing meeting spaces that have been meeting spaces for
Speaker 2: you know, many many, many thousands of years, they were
Speaker 2: originally meeting spaces for oneness. And it's the connection.
Speaker 4: Age is irrelevant, Like it's you know, dads and their
Speaker 4: daughters and moms and their kids, and you know, older
Speaker 4: generations and younger generations and everyone just coming together and
Speaker 4: experiencing something together.
Speaker 3: It's so powerful, which just needs so much more of that.
Speaker 1: It's not about anything but music, Like it's all. It's
Speaker 1: like this convergence of diversity and unity. It's like this
Speaker 1: myriad of different people, different cultures, backgrounds, religious shape sizes, genders, sexuality, preferences, likes, dislikes,
Speaker 1: all in one joint. And all it's got to do
Speaker 1: with is the experience and the music, and so all
Speaker 1: the other stuff becomes redundant, all the stuff that we
Speaker 1: obsess about the Wii, the macro Wii, who do you
Speaker 1: vote for, who do you barrack for? What do you wear?
Speaker 1: What do you why you eat meat? You don't eat meat?
Speaker 1: You None of that matters, you know, And to I think,
Speaker 1: to be able to bring that energy and to be
Speaker 1: in a place for whatever it was three hours where
Speaker 1: nothing matters but that, it's like there's something to be
Speaker 1: learned from that, oh, you know.
Speaker 2: And the presence of it, you know, something to be
Speaker 2: learned in that too, Like it's it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: very much. You know, where are you here? What time
Speaker 2: is it now? And that's that's that's so important. So
Speaker 2: there's no anxieties, there's no fears, there's no worries, there's
Speaker 2: no ship going on in instruction, there's no distractions except
Speaker 2: there was one moment where Chris Martin said, okay, everyone
Speaker 2: turn off your phone. Phones away, phones away, and guy.
Speaker 1: I love how we just did that, all right, you fucking.
Speaker 2: And the guy in front of me like, everyone put
Speaker 2: their phone away, and it was just this sort of
Speaker 2: really connect into the now sort of moment. He was
Speaker 2: sort of leading a meditation of sorts through song and
Speaker 2: one guy in front of me just put his phone up,
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 3: Was like, turn your fucking phone off.
Speaker 2: I was just that guy just just like screaming at him,
Speaker 2: and and he did for a second, and then then.
Speaker 3: That addiction just came back and he's like, no, I
Speaker 3: need the phone. I can't I can't do without the phone.
Speaker 3: It's the one thing that pisces me off.
Speaker 4: What do people do with the footage like stuff on
Speaker 4: the Graham But is it like good quality footage or
Speaker 4: do you post the footage because it's like, I was there,
Speaker 4: I want to kind of note that this is my
Speaker 4: moment in time I was there.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it like, isn't the Graham grid just
Speaker 2: like a you know, this is this moment photo album.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that's kind of what it is.
Speaker 4: But I mean, like when you're experiencing that actual concert.
Speaker 4: It's funny that we all take all this footage. I
Speaker 4: do it too, certainly, I'm part of it, and it
Speaker 4: makes me laugh because you go back and watch it
Speaker 4: and you think, what was I even thinking? I can't
Speaker 4: even see half the stuff that I was seeing in
Speaker 4: real life when I was there.
Speaker 3: I've watched a little bit this morning.
Speaker 2: It did sort of just take me back to the
Speaker 2: moment and a re experience of the feelings that you
Speaker 2: feel in the moments.
Speaker 3: I think I think there is a there is a
Speaker 3: place for it.
Speaker 2: But I also think there's a place for putting the
Speaker 2: phone away and just like being there when I When
Speaker 2: I do gigs, I did, I did. I've done a
Speaker 2: fair few recently. I asked people to not take footage
Speaker 2: and not and not not because I don't want shit
Speaker 2: posted on you know, social media, because that's probably really helpful.
Speaker 2: I just want them to beat, Like like Chris Martin,
Speaker 2: I just want it to be a meditation for them.
Speaker 2: I want them to be their present in it.
Speaker 5: How do you go performing seeing everyone with their phones?
Speaker 3: Ah? It just it just shits me a bit. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that's what it is.
Speaker 2: I just like, yeah, so, but I'm guilty of it
Speaker 2: too clearly, So practice what you preached. Hey, you guys,
Speaker 2: we've we've heated up the space with a little prologue
Speaker 2: as we as we like to do. But I want
Speaker 2: to know, on the topic of success growing up, what
Speaker 2: did that mean to you? What did success mean to you?
Speaker 3: What did it? Yeah, what did it look like to you?
Speaker 1: I think for me, it wasn't something I specifically like,
Speaker 1: that wasn't a question but I think this is for me.
Speaker 1: This is interesting because I talk about this in stuff.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So if you go into a room full of people
Speaker 1: and go who wants to be a failure? Nobody goes me, right,
Speaker 1: So everybody wants to be successful. But that represents different
Speaker 1: things to different people, and it represents different things to
Speaker 1: the same person over time. So if you said to me, Craig,
Speaker 1: we're going to have you working on a gym floor,
Speaker 1: it's going to be your gym floor, your gym, your equipment,
Speaker 1: there's going to be a team of people there, your team,
Speaker 1: and you're going to have all this shit going on,
Speaker 1: I would have gone, fucking you, fuck, that's amazing, and
Speaker 1: I would have loved it, and the idea would have
Speaker 1: excited me. And that's what I created and that's what
Speaker 1: I inhabited, and I was very grateful and right place,
Speaker 1: right time. A lot of things fell my way, but
Speaker 1: I also worked really hard, and so there was a
Speaker 1: period of time where me being in the gym doing
Speaker 1: my thing was like ten out of ten success. I'm
Speaker 1: in the moment, I'm loving it, ticking all the boxes,
Speaker 1: but everything kind of has a used by date. And
Speaker 1: then there was a period of time, I'm like, yeah, look.
Speaker 3: It's good.
Speaker 1: It's good, Dad, it's good. And then you eventually get
Speaker 1: to the point sometimes not with all things, where you go, NA,
Speaker 1: that's enough now, Like I've handed over enough dumbbells, I've
Speaker 1: done enough hamstring stretches, I've set enough bike seats, I've
Speaker 1: programmed enough treadmills, I've spoken enough about anatomy and physiology
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah for the moment, and I want
Speaker 1: to do other stuff. And so I think I think
Speaker 1: it's different for different people. It's like if you said
Speaker 1: to if you said to any one of us, three, mate,
Speaker 1: I've got a gig for you next Monday. It's at
Speaker 1: Vodafone Arena. It's five thousand people and you all of
Speaker 1: us would be excited because we all love that shit.
Speaker 1: For most people that would be mind blowingly terrifying. That
Speaker 1: would be the worst news they could get. And so
Speaker 1: it's really a subjective interpretation of a thing like to me,
Speaker 1: you know, building connection, building rapport, helping people help themselves.
Speaker 1: That is a form of success. You know, some people
Speaker 1: going well, I've raised three great kids. I'm awesome. You
Speaker 1: are awesome. That is the high watermark. Face. That's probably
Speaker 1: way more important than the shit that I do. Let's
Speaker 1: be honest. But the shit that you do helps. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that shit, yeah, nine of them are shit. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think it's really down to it. I say
Speaker 1: to people, put up your hand if you want to
Speaker 1: be successful, and every hand goes up. Then I go, cool,
Speaker 1: write down what that is and they go what. I go,
Speaker 1: write down what that is? So it's it's people. I
Speaker 1: don't think we define ourselves or a success for ourselves enough.
Speaker 1: And I also think, and I'll shut up after this,
Speaker 1: but I feel like we live somewhat unconsciously. It's like
Speaker 1: we wake up and we go, fuck, it was five years,
Speaker 1: this wasn't I've told this many story, many times, but
Speaker 1: not on this show. So you know, people will come
Speaker 1: and sit to me and they're forty five, forty fifty
Speaker 1: thirty five and they said, actually say to me, this
Speaker 1: wasn't my plan. And I go, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: They're like, where I'm at, this wasn't my plan. And
Speaker 1: I go, can I see the plan? And they go what?
Speaker 1: I go, the plan? Can I see it? They're like,
Speaker 1: and I go, well, there's no fucking plan, Like you
Speaker 1: didn't have a plan. You just had an idea of
Speaker 1: how things would work out, because if you live unconsciously,
Speaker 1: you're going to produce unconscious results. Like we need to
Speaker 1: be if we say I want to live a life
Speaker 1: aligned with my purpose and values and beliefs and faith
Speaker 1: and who I want to be and how I want
Speaker 1: to be, or there needs to be some strategy and
Speaker 1: logic and accountability and timeline and process like that. Shit,
Speaker 1: doesn't you becoming You building a world class podcast and
Speaker 1: you growing it to where you've got a million people
Speaker 1: per show. That's not going to accidentally happen. You're going
Speaker 1: to do the work, you're going to learn, you're going
Speaker 1: to refine skill, you're going to understand the audience, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, and over time you'll build it. But you're
Speaker 1: not going to sit here accidentally once a week and
Speaker 1: do something and you're going to end up being Joe Rogan.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It requires you've got to have intentionality.
Speaker 1: And you've got it. I mean, I reckon. The biggest
Speaker 1: barrier to success for most people is they just don't
Speaker 1: like the work. Like they love the idea of the
Speaker 1: top of the mountain, but they don't want to fucking climb.
Speaker 1: It's like the theory of success and the practical reality
Speaker 1: of doing what is required to succeed. They are nothing
Speaker 1: alike because one's just a theoretical construct. One is a
Speaker 1: motherfucker of a process that you will probably hate half
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 4: But success too also, I think it evolves definitely over time.
Speaker 4: So when you talk about what you thought about it
Speaker 4: when it was young, I don't think I even thought
Speaker 4: about what it looked like or what it was what
Speaker 4: it could be for me. But it also can be
Speaker 4: the tiniest little things, and I think that's what I've
Speaker 4: learned over time is around success sometimes can be just
Speaker 4: getting your morning done okay, you know, and not not
Speaker 4: really struggling in that process. And I think I learn
Speaker 4: over time following other people was what I thought. My
Speaker 4: version of success was, so seeing someone else do something
Speaker 4: and I was like, Okay, I think I can do that.
Speaker 4: My older sister played netball, and that's the only reason
Speaker 4: I really got into the sport was because I watched
Speaker 4: her start to make teams and think, hmm, the competitiveness
Speaker 4: in me.
Speaker 5: I was like, I reckon, I could do that.
Speaker 4: So my version of success back then was simply bang
Speaker 4: out a tick off the same mark as that she
Speaker 4: had done. And it wasn't until I started to really,
Speaker 4: I guess, feel confident in my own skin when I
Speaker 4: stepped onto the netball cord or the basketball court or
Speaker 4: whatever I was playing. I started to really embrace that
Speaker 4: the asset that I have that not many people have
Speaker 4: is my height, and it's not something to be worried
Speaker 4: about or ashamed about, or you know, stress about.
Speaker 5: It's me.
Speaker 4: And as soon as I started to love being out
Speaker 4: there on court because I felt comfortable in my own skin,
Speaker 4: and then I started to feel confident about myself, then
Speaker 4: I started to be able to go, oh, actually I
Speaker 4: could do a little bit different to my sister, and
Speaker 4: then what do I really want to do and what's
Speaker 4: the big picture for me? And so it kind of
Speaker 4: took me being a bit more self aware of why
Speaker 4: I was doing it. And it seems I would not
Speaker 4: have understood this at the time, but it's something as
Speaker 4: I've really reflected back on my career, I realized the
Speaker 4: only reason I started playing sport and enjoyed playing sport
Speaker 4: was because I felt comfortable in my own skin. Whereas
Speaker 4: when I was with my friends and when I was
Speaker 4: out at school.
Speaker 5: I was just wanting to be like everybody else. I
Speaker 5: was wanting to be.
Speaker 4: Little and you know, wear the same clothes as everybody else,
Speaker 4: and not be this gigantic person that stood above everybody else,
Speaker 4: even though you know, I I'm six foot two, so
Speaker 4: I was naturally always going to be tall. But sport
Speaker 4: really taught me to love myself and my body and
Speaker 4: to really be able to embrace what an asset it
Speaker 4: is to be tall, and so that to me then
Speaker 4: really drove what I could do with that and how
Speaker 4: much I felt so good being out there on court.
Speaker 4: I wanted to do it as much as I could.
Speaker 4: So then success for me was like, right, how far
Speaker 4: can I take this? Can I get into the Australian team?
Speaker 4: Can I win gold medals? And you know, eventually you
Speaker 4: do it, But it certainly doesn't just happen like that.
Speaker 4: It kind of is this gradual rollercoaster ride of ups
Speaker 4: and downs that you get to eventually, but a bloody
Speaker 4: lot of hard work and a lot of setbacks along
Speaker 4: the way. And I look back now and the gold
Speaker 4: medals are great. Yes, they were something I aspired to
Speaker 4: get and wanted, But it's the little things that I
Speaker 4: ticked off along the way, the little moments that I had,
Speaker 4: whether it's with my teammates or it's things that I
Speaker 4: was able to overcome personally, that really I look back
Speaker 4: and I feel more successful because of those little things
Speaker 4: and what it's taught me Now I'm not an athlete,
Speaker 4: and what drives me now that I'm not an athlete
Speaker 4: that I'm like, Oh, they're the things that really matter,
Speaker 4: not the shiny stuff.
Speaker 2: I want to pull on a couple of threads there,
Speaker 2: which is that the court became your happy place. What
Speaker 2: we're talking about there is the feeling that you experience,
Speaker 2: not the thought of the projection of what it could be.
Speaker 3: It's actually how it made you feel.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'd argue that that's not something that enough
Speaker 2: people actually really sit in and marinate over with when
Speaker 2: it comes to success. They think that when I get
Speaker 2: the house, or when I get the new car, or
Speaker 2: when I get the extra zeros in my bank, or
Speaker 2: when I win the gold or whatever, then I will
Speaker 2: be successful. But really I don't believe that it's any
Speaker 2: of those things. It's the feeling you think you're going
Speaker 2: to feel when you acquire those things. And so really
Speaker 2: what we're probably asking for is more feeling. What is
Speaker 2: the feeling? And I think that feeling from a Hindi
Speaker 2: perspective or Hindi mythological perspective, is called an under which
Speaker 2: is which is bliss, but not the bliss that English
Speaker 2: language uses, which is euphor eken up and out and
Speaker 2: but grounded, peaceful, calm, contented, safe, loved, unified together. That
Speaker 2: that's that sense of peace. But this is my This
Speaker 2: is a space that I feel absolute, the deepest level
Speaker 2: of comfort in. And I love that you felt that.
Speaker 2: On the court, there's the outcome or the situation of success.
Speaker 2: While beyond Chris successful, she works on television, she's got
Speaker 2: a great bloke, she's got an awesome kid, makes pretty
Speaker 2: good though, like our our culture says that success is
Speaker 2: about what you have, what you're you and what you drive,
Speaker 2: where you live, what you look like, what people think
Speaker 2: are you.
Speaker 3: They're the KPI all extrinsic and we talk whatever.
Speaker 1: So but what we know is and we all know people,
Speaker 1: and we may being the people where from the outside
Speaker 1: looking in, people are going like I had a moment,
Speaker 1: sorry to interrupt you, but when I was in my
Speaker 1: early thirties, I had five businesses and one hundred staff.
Speaker 1: I had three gyms, two other businesses, and I was
Speaker 1: making lots today. All my businesses were making money. And
Speaker 1: every night I would go to bed and hardly sleep.
Speaker 1: I would go to bed with a spiral bound had
Speaker 1: by my bed so when I woke up nine times,
Speaker 1: which I would, I could write down the thing so
Speaker 1: it was out of my head and onto a pad
Speaker 1: so I could relax and kind of sleep. And I
Speaker 1: was in the situation of success but not the experience.
Speaker 1: And when I coach most people, when you get through,
Speaker 1: so there's when we talk about goal setting and we
Speaker 1: talk about what you want. There's your what, your why,
Speaker 1: and your why is what you really want. So like
Speaker 1: when I wanted when I was a morbid OB's kid,
Speaker 1: I wanted to lose a bunch of weight. So my
Speaker 1: what was weight loss, but my why was I want
Speaker 1: someone to love me. I want to I don't want
Speaker 1: to be picked last. I don't want to be embarrassed.
Speaker 1: I want it. I don't want to be socially invisible.
Speaker 1: I want to get a girlfriend. I want to fucking
Speaker 1: belong like But then you dig deeper, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I just want love I just want to love right.
Speaker 1: And so when we get to the bottom of everything,
Speaker 1: I think what you said, which is most people that
Speaker 1: I talk to, yes, they want practical stuff. As we
Speaker 1: all do. Nothing wrong with that because we live in
Speaker 1: a world somewhat driven by money and dependent on money
Speaker 1: and all the practical.
Speaker 3: Talk that recent episode with Ben Crow.
Speaker 2: So there's nothing wrong with one of needing those extremes
Speaker 2: I things we needed to live.
Speaker 1: Like well, even in you know, we got a little
Speaker 1: biblical before, but even then the New Testament. People misquote
Speaker 1: this scripture. They go, money is the root of all evil.
Speaker 1: The actual scripture is the love of money is the root.
Speaker 1: It's not about money, it's about your relationship. It's about
Speaker 1: what it means. It's like you can like training, for example,
Speaker 1: we all work out, we all go to the gym,
Speaker 1: we're all you know, there's there's a point where training
Speaker 1: is great, and then there's a point where it's now
Speaker 1: obsessive and destructive and toxic. So in science language, everything's
Speaker 1: dose dependent. Yes, it's dose dependent. Like everything, there's a
Speaker 1: dose that's healthy, not everything, but most things. And so
Speaker 1: that when you dig past what do you want, I
Speaker 1: want to do this own that live there. I want
Speaker 1: to get a PhD. Da da da da da. You know,
Speaker 1: Like for me, the idea of doing a PhD was
Speaker 1: like super sexy. The practical reality is it's a motherfucker.
Speaker 1: It's like I tell my friends, don't ever do it.
Speaker 1: People have gone to me. Do you think I go? No, No, don't.
Speaker 5: Why did you do?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 1: Probably feel a little bit more credible because I'm wildly
Speaker 1: insecure and I've felt like a fucking fat pasta fraud,
Speaker 1: you name it. Like, what's hilarious is this capacity that
Speaker 1: we humans have to simultaneously feel like a fraud but
Speaker 1: know that we're not. Like I know I'm not just
Speaker 1: because I've got enough data now to suggest that or
Speaker 1: I've got enough evidence right, But do I still feel
Speaker 1: not good enough? Constantly? Constantly. It's like when when Josh
Speaker 1: was introing you, I'm like, what the fuck is you
Speaker 1: going to say about me? I'm like an ex fat
Speaker 1: kid from La tro Valley.
Speaker 6: I've done four things, oh, World champion, common shit, Commonwealth
Speaker 6: games on the block TV, you know, And it's just
Speaker 6: like even in that, but I'm aware of what's going on.
Speaker 2: Yes, but that which is really important. It speaks to
Speaker 2: your work is that I said that you've become a
Speaker 2: really good friend and a mentor and.
Speaker 3: You've really helped me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for me, I go, that's a huge marker
Speaker 2: of success in someone because it is in the the
Speaker 2: whold or so for me, I go, You're you're so
Speaker 2: successful because I watch you help people, and I value
Speaker 2: people that help people.
Speaker 1: I tried selfishness for a long time. I gave it
Speaker 1: a good crack.
Speaker 3: I think we all do.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm I was, I was the center of
Speaker 1: my world and it just you know, it's like there's
Speaker 1: this model that I didn't develop of kind of expanded it,
Speaker 1: but where you go through this journey of self kind
Speaker 1: of self reflection through to self awareness and then you know,
Speaker 1: self regulation and it ends up the last two.
Speaker 3: There's eight tackle and self loathing might be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, self flagellation, and but the last two, the last second,
Speaker 1: last one is I'm self actualization, which is you becoming
Speaker 1: kind of who you want it to be and how
Speaker 1: you want it to be. And I'm I think I'm
Speaker 1: like in that ballpark, But the real goal is what
Speaker 1: I think is the final step, which is self transcendence,
Speaker 1: which is having a purpose bigger than you, So it
Speaker 1: ain't about me, and I know that for me, and
Speaker 1: yet it sounds mother Teresa and people might go, oh,
Speaker 1: that's good saying a podcast, and I get it because
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not it a lot, But I try to
Speaker 1: be where I do have a purpose bigger than me,
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm about genuinely about whatever love looks like,
Speaker 1: whether it's kindness, whether it's quality time, whether it's a hug,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, literally giving someone a few bucks,
Speaker 1: or whether it's encouragement or you know, every now and
Speaker 1: then it will be some tough love, but you know
Speaker 1: it's that transcendent kind of existence because I think in
Speaker 1: that model of successes about what I can get and
Speaker 1: what I can have and what I can own and earn,
Speaker 1: and what people think of me at the best. What
Speaker 1: that brings us is a fleeting change of emotion and psychology,
Speaker 1: like there's not It doesn't bring my experience, it doesn't
Speaker 1: bring that deep contentment, and you think about I reckon
Speaker 1: in for those of us who live in relative first
Speaker 1: world comfort, most people really want, which you mentioned, is
Speaker 1: just to be calm, the absence of anxiety. Everyone's fucking anxious, Like,
Speaker 1: what do I really want? I just I don't want
Speaker 1: to feel like this. How do you want to feel
Speaker 1: like the opposite of anxious, the opposite of stress? Put
Speaker 1: up your hand. If you're an overthinker, everyone has that
Speaker 1: going shitouse, you know, And it's all of this, I
Speaker 1: mean anxiety, stress, overthinking, self doubt, datata, all of that.
Speaker 1: It's a manifestation of fear. And then you go, what
Speaker 1: am I scared of? Let's let's dive rather than run away.
Speaker 1: Let's run into it and let's see what's there. Because
Speaker 1: you can't deal with the thing that you won't acknowledge.
Speaker 1: You know. Am I lazy?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 1: Sometimes? Am I driven by ego?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 1: Do I have to bite my tongue because I want
Speaker 1: to impress people? Yep? All of these things. And that
Speaker 1: is not self loathing. That is just honesty and reflection
Speaker 1: and self awareness.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's self awareness part.
Speaker 4: I think that's something that you learn a lot more
Speaker 4: about the more you spend time on it. Right, And
Speaker 4: even when you were just talking about that imposter syndrome,
Speaker 4: and I think every single person in the world would
Speaker 4: have that at some stage. And it's about knowing and
Speaker 4: understanding that you're having those thoughts and that's okay, and
Speaker 4: you just not that you're letting it pass by, but
Speaker 4: you're kind of thinking, what is it in the moment
Speaker 4: that's making me feel like this? And what can I
Speaker 4: do to get myself out of it? Or what can
Speaker 4: I do to kind of pass through this and be
Speaker 4: okay that that just happens?
Speaker 5: Do you agree with that?
Speaker 4: But that having that self awareness and not trying to
Speaker 4: fight those feelings but letting them just be there and
Speaker 4: knowing that it's not going to take over me in
Speaker 4: this moment, or you hope it doesn't, and even if
Speaker 4: it does, you figure out a way to work through it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: because it is your PhD in self awareness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, essentially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But what I think is that's what Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a part of huge part of neuropsychology.
Speaker 1: I can dive into it, but we don't want to
Speaker 1: boll people. But I think really what is really really
Speaker 1: valuable and just not taught and told much is just
Speaker 1: to be okay with being wrong. You noticed at the
Speaker 1: moment everyone wants to be right, and it's like one
Speaker 1: of the problems with thinking that you are right, Like
Speaker 1: if you think I don't want to pick a topic
Speaker 1: because people instantly get polarized. But just any subject, any topic,
Speaker 1: any idea, any construct, any philosophy. When I think that
Speaker 1: I am unequivocally right, then I also think that everyone
Speaker 1: in the world who disagrees with me is unequivocally wrong.
Speaker 1: That's a fucking dangerous mindset. So and I, you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up in a very religious theological paradigm, thinking
Speaker 1: and behaving and living and socializing in accordance with that.
Speaker 1: And you think about, like, everyone listening to this right now,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Let's say ten thousand people
Speaker 1: are listening to this. Ten thousand people are listening to
Speaker 1: the same three people in the same conversation, but no
Speaker 1: one's having the same experience as a listener, Like we
Speaker 1: are always creating our own experiences without intending to. And
Speaker 1: so and we grow up, you know, we grow up
Speaker 1: in an echo chamber of thought and behavior and values
Speaker 1: and culture, and you become a product that. So by
Speaker 1: the time you're pushed out of the nestadata in or whatever,
Speaker 1: you see the world a certain way, and most of
Speaker 1: that worldview you did not choose. It's merely a byproduct
Speaker 1: of where you've been and what you've been in you know,
Speaker 1: And so this is a self awareness question.
Speaker 2: And what you talk about harks back to what we
Speaker 2: chatted about in the prologue about Chris Martin and Coldplay
Speaker 2: and the oneness. Yes, that humans inherently enjoy. The duellism
Speaker 2: and the duelism plays into the rightousness and the righteousness.
Speaker 2: It's like, I need to be on this side of
Speaker 2: the I need to barrack for this, yeah. And I
Speaker 2: need to be right in barracking for this, yes, Because
Speaker 2: the idea of the one this actually means that you
Speaker 2: have to remove judgment, increase open mindedness. You have to
Speaker 2: relinquish fear, relinquish prejudice, relinquish projections. You have to relinquish
Speaker 2: so much to get rid of your rightness and righteousness
Speaker 2: that that's too heavy a burden, too deep a place
Speaker 2: for a lot of people to go to. But really,
Speaker 2: that dualism, that righteousness is a fear manifest It's not
Speaker 2: it's the inability to park your stuff because you're too
Speaker 2: scared of what it could be if you don't happens.
Speaker 2: I'm too scared of being wrong because what is the
Speaker 2: pathway of that? And so really that dualism is the
Speaker 2: opposite of love because it's driven by fear, and fear
Speaker 2: is the opposite of love really.
Speaker 1: And also, you think about whatever we believe, generally, our
Speaker 1: identity is intertwined with that belief. So if you question
Speaker 1: my belief, you're questioning me exactly. And if my belief's wrong,
Speaker 1: then who the fuck am I?
Speaker 3: Exactly? So my belief is right, but you're not your belief. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so you're not.
Speaker 2: And and so you need so you need to really
Speaker 2: dive into is that conditioning? Is that you know, I've
Speaker 2: had lots of sort of disagreements with some mates at
Speaker 2: the moment around what's happening in the Middle East because
Speaker 2: they sit on one side of the equation, and then there's
Speaker 2: a bunch of mates more in the arts who are
Speaker 2: on a totally different side of the situation. This is
Speaker 2: a really challenging topic at the moment. But once again,
Speaker 2: spoken on this on an earlier episode, I'm trying.
Speaker 3: To find.
Speaker 2: And move away from, you know, the fact that I'm
Speaker 2: Jewish and I have to side with something because I
Speaker 2: don't I see, I'm like trying to find this middle
Speaker 2: middle space where and I go where is where is
Speaker 2: where is love?
Speaker 3: Where is peace? Where is calm in this?
Speaker 2: And and I've said that it's a sad thing, that
Speaker 2: very sad thing, that that concept is seemingly you topian
Speaker 2: in this day and age, that oneness is utopian, But
Speaker 2: it's it's really about going, hey, I see it from
Speaker 2: your perspective, and I see it from your perspective. I'm
Speaker 2: not putting my head in the sand, but I'm taking
Speaker 2: the middle ground between between the two rather than going
Speaker 2: it has to be.
Speaker 5: This and you always have to have an opinion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can just listen.
Speaker 5: Yes, it doesn't mean you're being naive or you're ignoring
Speaker 5: what's going on.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people feel like they've got
Speaker 4: to have an opinion, and unfortunately it's like the loudest
Speaker 4: opinion and everyone needs to know shout it out to everybody.
Speaker 4: And that's how people feel like they're getting, you know,
Speaker 4: their thoughts across and they're also being part of a
Speaker 4: conversation because of that. And I think there's so much
Speaker 4: power in sitting back and listening and not feeling like
Speaker 4: you have to add to it. But you can just
Speaker 4: sit back and take it all in and that's okay too.
Speaker 4: I just yeah, I don't know. I find that with
Speaker 4: a lot of you know, just the people I'm around,
Speaker 4: whether in work or just life, that everyone loves to
Speaker 4: have their opinion.
Speaker 3: Here we are having all sorts.
Speaker 1: Isn't it cool though, to go I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know, and I can make some
Speaker 1: up I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think a lot of people do
Speaker 4: get smells down this rabbit hole of making stuff up.
Speaker 1: Once a week, I reckon what do you think? I
Speaker 1: don't know. Why I get asked is what do you
Speaker 1: think happens when we die? O? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: could tell you what my upbringing told me. I could
Speaker 1: tell you with what a whole lot of you know,
Speaker 1: other religions think. But what I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: With the work you're doing and the work we're all
Speaker 2: talking about doing, which is to just being more aware.
Speaker 2: In that awareness, I think what we find is the
Speaker 2: ability to go ah, that thought that I'm having, or
Speaker 2: that righteousness around that topic that is a part of
Speaker 2: my conditioned belief system. That's an indoctrination that's been put
Speaker 2: upon me. It doesn't have to be to be right,
Speaker 2: it's just what I've been fed and that now lives
Speaker 2: in my subconscious as right, maybe that's not the only
Speaker 2: way things need to be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think for me, I reckon I learned
Speaker 4: so much from playing in a team sport because of
Speaker 4: the fact, and then that's what since retiring, That's what
Speaker 4: I really noticed out in the big bad real world,
Speaker 4: is that in a team and especially when you're spending
Speaker 4: a lot of time together training together, you know you're
Speaker 4: working your asses off to try and win, and along
Speaker 4: with that comes a lot of conversations and you're getting
Speaker 4: feedback constantly, whether it be feedback about your performance from
Speaker 4: your coaches and what you need to work on. But
Speaker 4: in a team environment, especially with the Aussie team, your
Speaker 4: delve so deep into each other's like who we are
Speaker 4: as people and what we need from each other in
Speaker 4: those moments when under the most stress, and so you
Speaker 4: are getting this feedback from everyone about yourself and it's
Speaker 4: the most frightening thing in the moment to actually listen
Speaker 4: to your teammates give you this feedback. But they will
Speaker 4: sit you down and it'll be like, when I'm feeling this,
Speaker 4: what do I need from you? So if you're struggling
Speaker 4: with how you shooting in that moment? What do you
Speaker 4: need from your teammates? What can we say to you
Speaker 4: to help you when you're feeling like that? I love
Speaker 4: this and it's it is confronting. It takes a lot
Speaker 4: of work to get to that point of these conversations
Speaker 4: and big like that. But I think that's helped me
Speaker 4: so much, be so aware of me, my body language
Speaker 4: and what that tells people when I'm acting a certain
Speaker 4: way and when I'm frustrated or I might not have
Speaker 4: been playing that well, you know what I needed from
Speaker 4: my teammates and being able to ask for the help
Speaker 4: in that moment. What can you do for me to
Speaker 4: help me in that moment, because it's only going to
Speaker 4: be for the better of the team. And if someone
Speaker 4: might be struggling with their mental health, what do you
Speaker 4: need from your teammates when you you know can't you
Speaker 4: can't possibly train today because you're not in the right
Speaker 4: space to do it.
Speaker 5: What can we do to support you?
Speaker 2: I mean, this is so beautiful to hear that that
Speaker 2: that that you're actually delving into. What would the feeling
Speaker 2: of the other individual not just are they missed another shot?
Speaker 2: They got the yips there's going, why what are they experiencing?
Speaker 2: What can I give them? You know, back to what
Speaker 2: you were talking about pulling on that thread. Half's about going.
Speaker 2: It's not about me. It's about how I can help
Speaker 2: another and what I can give like this, that's beautiful
Speaker 2: that that does that happen. And this is another interesting question.
Speaker 2: Do you think that happens more in women's sport than
Speaker 2: it does in men's sport?
Speaker 3: Is there?
Speaker 2: Well? I think because women naturally lean into the emotional
Speaker 2: parts of things and men struggle with that more.
Speaker 4: Just But I also think women it takes a while
Speaker 4: to really not take it personally as well. Whereas men
Speaker 4: can quite easily give each other feedback this is very
Speaker 4: general generalization, can give each other feedback and just move
Speaker 4: on and accept it, whereas I feel like women can
Speaker 4: often sit in that space of like, I can't believe
Speaker 4: she said that about me, or I can't believe she
Speaker 4: thinks I'm struggling in that way.
Speaker 5: But it does.
Speaker 4: It comes down to trust, right, You have to really
Speaker 4: have that layer of trust before you can then move
Speaker 4: into that next part. And you said you spoke to
Speaker 4: ben Crow, and I mean Crow is such a big
Speaker 4: one for that being able to have a space where
Speaker 4: you can talk about it, be vulnerable and also accept help.
Speaker 4: And I think most of the time it's coming from
Speaker 4: a place where you have to come with a solution
Speaker 4: to You can't just say I'm sitting here in this
Speaker 4: I'm not playing well, don't talk to me like you
Speaker 4: have to actually help them help you. And I think
Speaker 4: that's where it comes for having a bit more thought
Speaker 4: process around it too.
Speaker 5: So when I'm in this space.
Speaker 4: And I'm feeling like this, this is what I need
Speaker 4: from you, so that when people are doing that to
Speaker 4: you and delivering you what you've said you've needed, then
Speaker 4: it's up to you to show up to that too.
Speaker 4: You can't just then be dismissive of that you've told them,
Speaker 4: You've given them permission to do that and to talk
Speaker 4: to you in that way. That you have to also
Speaker 4: then show up for yourself and get yourself out of
Speaker 4: that frame of mind that you might be in.
Speaker 2: And this is beautiful to around it back to the
Speaker 2: topic success. This is a beautiful way to to create
Speaker 2: team success that it does ask for vulnerability, it does
Speaker 2: ask for meeting people's needs, but ultimately, like trust, like
Speaker 2: if you don't have the trust within the framework of
Speaker 2: a team.
Speaker 3: You can't be vulnerable. You know you can't. You won't
Speaker 3: feel safe to be vulnerable.
Speaker 4: So and getting out of your own skin really and
Speaker 4: you know that empathetic part of where you go and
Speaker 4: sit where someone else is at right and be there
Speaker 4: with them in that moment and then try and work
Speaker 4: through how you're going to get better, because you're only
Speaker 4: going to be as good as you know, probably the
Speaker 4: weakest person on that team or the least inexperienced person
Speaker 4: on that team. You're only as good as what they
Speaker 4: can be in that moment, and so you've got to
Speaker 4: do everything you can to all try and be at
Speaker 4: a similar level and work together to try and problem solve.
Speaker 4: I would have been hopeless an individual sport. There is
Speaker 4: no chance I would have been successful in sport on
Speaker 4: my own. I really embrace the fact I had team
Speaker 4: mates around me, and I love that got the best
Speaker 4: out of me being able to help other people out there.
Speaker 4: So if I was, you know, a tennis player like
Speaker 4: I listened to Jolena Dokitch and Todd Woodbridge on your
Speaker 4: potty and I loved listening to them, and I just
Speaker 4: think they're mentally next level the way that they can
Speaker 4: do it and get themselves out of tough spots on
Speaker 4: their own in a place where they don't have anyone
Speaker 4: around them, and it comes down to them. I think
Speaker 4: there are a totally different breed of athlete to what
Speaker 4: a team sport athlete is.
Speaker 2: What were the sort of routines or rituals or things
Speaker 2: that you put in place for yourself or that the
Speaker 2: team put in place to feel like you were moving
Speaker 2: closer towards the success that you were you were after,
Speaker 2: and you might Craig want to talk about some of
Speaker 2: those key characteristics of things.
Speaker 3: That's the crazy.
Speaker 4: Especially in the early start, Craig would work on a
Speaker 4: lot of that with us too. It started as a
Speaker 4: street and conditioning side of things, and then you move
Speaker 4: more into the space of actually working with us from
Speaker 4: a leadership perspective, and you know, setting ourselves our values
Speaker 4: and behaviors and what we were going to stand for
Speaker 4: and what the behaviors that we would set, what we
Speaker 4: would have to hold each other accountable to. That probably
Speaker 4: became the more powerful piece what we were going to
Speaker 4: accept of each other.
Speaker 2: But did you do things like a morning before a
Speaker 2: game or not for a game.
Speaker 3: I need to have a speaheta blinads morning for a game.
Speaker 2: I need to mourning for a like, or I always
Speaker 2: you know, meditate, or or I always do this movement
Speaker 2: activity or like. Do you have these sort of practices
Speaker 2: that you put in place.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you would, definitely, And I was very much. I
Speaker 4: had to be really prepared beforehand, so I would watch
Speaker 4: if I was watching any video or anything about the
Speaker 4: team I was about to play, I had to do
Speaker 4: all of that the night before because prep tick that
Speaker 4: off the night before.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't you.
Speaker 4: I would always generally have like salmon and rice the
Speaker 4: night before a game. But I wasn't stuck.
Speaker 5: On the fact.
Speaker 4: And I think Crago got me out of this being
Speaker 4: stuck on the fact that I had to do that,
Speaker 4: because if you didn't.
Speaker 5: Do it, what were you going to do? We're going
Speaker 5: to just crumble and heat.
Speaker 2: The next day salmon shortage. Where am I going to
Speaker 2: get my bigga three fatty assets before?
Speaker 4: So I think like we used to think it was,
Speaker 4: you know, you're quite strict about it all. And then
Speaker 4: I relaxed later in my career, I was so much
Speaker 4: more relaxed about it. But what I enjoyed doing was
Speaker 4: getting to a game and being able to muck around
Speaker 4: and have fun in the change rooms with everybody and
Speaker 4: enjoy because the joy and not focusing too much on
Speaker 4: it allowed me to then go out there on court
Speaker 4: and play my best. If I was too caught up
Speaker 4: in it and too focused and too analytical, then I
Speaker 4: would get in my own head and the old overthinking
Speaker 4: would get in my way. So I really needed to
Speaker 4: just make sure that I arrived and I could have
Speaker 4: a bit of fun beforehand.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I'll get you to speak to this soon, Craig.
Speaker 2: But preparation you've mentioned, and play you've mentioned. When I
Speaker 2: sort of work with people in this space and in
Speaker 2: my self, something that I've sort of formulated is what
Speaker 2: I call it, like five five p's to controlling what
Speaker 2: I can control to be the most successful I can
Speaker 2: be in it.
Speaker 3: In a moment, can I.
Speaker 1: Tell you that you two think way too fucking much?
Speaker 1: You both overthink it?
Speaker 3: No, both c D.
Speaker 2: Probably a five p's preparation. Preparation is the is the
Speaker 2: first one you go. I've got to, you know, like
Speaker 2: if I don't really know my ship, I can't I
Speaker 2: can't trust it. Presence, you know, So what do I
Speaker 2: do to stay present? And sometimes when you get in
Speaker 2: your head or whatever, like just a sensory thing like
Speaker 2: just go, you know the feeling of my feet on
Speaker 2: the ground, or you know what I what I can see,
Speaker 2: what I can hear, what I can smell?
Speaker 3: And purpose? What's what's my intention? That's what? What's my why?
Speaker 3: Why why am I here? Passion? You know? To go?
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 2: I do that feeling? Yeah, lean into the feeling that
Speaker 2: I want to feel. The last one is play and
Speaker 2: I think you know plays once again, Crowie talked a
Speaker 2: lot about play on our episode, but that idea of
Speaker 2: just bringing that in a child into it, like well,
Speaker 2: that's the joy, that's the fun, that's like why, that's
Speaker 2: the curiosity, that's the adventure.
Speaker 3: Like what would I Why would.
Speaker 2: I be doing this if there wasn't an element of
Speaker 2: play in it? And then what happens happens? You know,
Speaker 2: I've done the part that I can do. And this
Speaker 2: is I definitely do this before auditions or before major performances.
Speaker 2: I really sit into this because I know I can't
Speaker 2: control what those you know, five six, twelve people on
Speaker 2: the panel think I have no say in what they think.
Speaker 2: But my power is in those five things, and if
Speaker 2: I screw up any of them, I just throw in
Speaker 2: the sixth one, which is persistence. Just go, you know
Speaker 2: what this tomorrow like and sack sort of Kobe Bryant
Speaker 2: Bryant thing, which is like, whether you win or you lose,
Speaker 2: you just got to rock up the next day and
Speaker 2: go again.
Speaker 3: And you go, get that's the persistence thing.
Speaker 2: So that might be a for thinking it, but I
Speaker 2: actually think, do you know what that helped? That has
Speaker 2: really helped me to just create a framework for success
Speaker 2: in a way that I go, I feel like I
Speaker 2: have some control, and we spend a lot of time
Speaker 2: trying to control the things we can't control. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to control what that panel think of me. I kind
Speaker 2: of control what the two thousand people think of me.
Speaker 2: I have no say in it.
Speaker 1: And I think it's understanding that different things work for
Speaker 1: different people. And so like there's a fine line sometimes
Speaker 1: between superstition and protocol, you know, because a lot of
Speaker 1: athletes are superstitious and you go, yeah, I've got it.
Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing. All that does really for them
Speaker 1: is reduce anxiety because they feel better there's no scientific
Speaker 1: validity to a lot of it. Well there was. That's
Speaker 1: the that's the completion of part one of this chat
Speaker 1: Bianca and Josh and myself. Hope you enjoyed it. We'll
Speaker 1: be back tomorrow.