1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,380 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. With 2 00:00:07,380 --> 00:00:10,469 Sean Aylmer: unemployment at its lowest level in almost half a century, 3 00:00:10,470 --> 00:00:13,200 Sean Aylmer: the battle for workers is intense and it means some 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,890 Sean Aylmer: companies are promising big bonuses in an effort to retain 5 00:00:16,890 --> 00:00:20,759 Sean Aylmer: and lure top performing staff. But with inflation and cost 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,509 Sean Aylmer: soaring in an uncertain economy, can they afford it? Andrew 7 00:00:24,510 --> 00:00:26,880 Sean Aylmer: Hanson is the managing director in New South Wales at Robert 8 00:00:26,940 --> 00:00:30,750 Sean Aylmer: Walters, the global recruitment consultancy. Andrew, welcome to Fear and Greed. 9 00:00:30,930 --> 00:00:31,800 Andrew Hanson: Thanks for having me, Sean. 10 00:00:32,430 --> 00:00:36,360 Sean Aylmer: So the Robert Walters salary survey, the most recent one, 11 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,080 Sean Aylmer: looked at the issue of bonuses. What's happening there? It 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,920 Sean Aylmer: just feels like people should be getting big bonuses, but 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,400 Sean Aylmer: are they? 14 00:00:45,330 --> 00:00:47,820 Andrew Hanson: Well, we're right at that point where we're starting to 15 00:00:47,820 --> 00:00:50,550 Andrew Hanson: find out after the end of the Australian financial year. 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,200 Andrew Hanson: It's absolutely an interesting time with us being at the 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,060 Andrew Hanson: tail end of, well, I won't say it's the tail 18 00:00:57,060 --> 00:00:59,790 Andrew Hanson: end, I'm not an economic forecaster, but we're at the end 19 00:00:59,790 --> 00:01:03,660 Andrew Hanson: of a very positive period for many industries here in 20 00:01:03,660 --> 00:01:07,020 Andrew Hanson: Australia. As such, with company performances, being in some cases 21 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:10,800 Andrew Hanson: at record highs, there's absolutely been an expectation that people 22 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,040 Andrew Hanson: would expect bonuses in that period. So the answer is 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,370 Andrew Hanson: yes, absolutely. There're bonuses that are being paid. There's still 24 00:01:17,370 --> 00:01:20,250 Andrew Hanson: people to find out whether bonuses are paid. It's really, 25 00:01:20,250 --> 00:01:22,590 Andrew Hanson: probably around this week where people would be finding out 26 00:01:22,590 --> 00:01:25,770 Andrew Hanson: and probably paid within the next week after that. So 27 00:01:25,770 --> 00:01:28,560 Andrew Hanson: we're still to find out in some cases. Then of 28 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,290 Andrew Hanson: course you have other companies that might be global that 29 00:01:31,290 --> 00:01:33,300 Andrew Hanson: would work to a slightly different timeline and be paid 30 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:36,480 Andrew Hanson: later in the year. But yes, there are bonuses out 31 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,720 Andrew Hanson: there, but we are also aware of some circumstances where 32 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,569 Andrew Hanson: people are a little concerned that perhaps they might not 33 00:01:42,569 --> 00:01:45,509 Andrew Hanson: see coming through what perhaps they expected come the next 34 00:01:45,510 --> 00:01:45,990 Andrew Hanson: week or two. 35 00:01:46,380 --> 00:01:50,280 Sean Aylmer: But with remuneration structures, bonuses are great to talk about, 36 00:01:50,580 --> 00:01:52,770 Sean Aylmer: but is it still as it has been for a 37 00:01:52,770 --> 00:01:55,620 Sean Aylmer: long time where people get base pay and then generally 38 00:01:55,620 --> 00:01:59,040 Sean Aylmer: bonuses, depending on where you are on the ladder, obviously 39 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,790 Sean Aylmer: can be a small percent of your base pay, through 40 00:02:02,790 --> 00:02:05,010 Sean Aylmer: to multiples of your base pay. Is that generally how 41 00:02:05,010 --> 00:02:05,730 Sean Aylmer: it's still working? 42 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:09,510 Andrew Hanson: Look, Sean, I think it really does differ industry to 43 00:02:09,510 --> 00:02:14,549 Andrew Hanson: industry. We're a white collar professional recruitment consultancy. So many 44 00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:17,940 Andrew Hanson: of the industries that we work with do operate bonus 45 00:02:17,940 --> 00:02:22,320 Andrew Hanson: system of sorts. Of course, in financial services, for example, 46 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,510 Andrew Hanson: it's far more prevalent than it might be in other 47 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,440 Andrew Hanson: sectors, like perhaps healthcare or indeed construction and so on. 48 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,950 Andrew Hanson: But the answer is dependent on industry. There has been 49 00:02:31,950 --> 00:02:35,970 Andrew Hanson: a big shift, particularly in financial services, where less of 50 00:02:35,970 --> 00:02:40,320 Andrew Hanson: the overall compensation is made up by bonus and less 51 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,919 Andrew Hanson: of it being about reward by a big bonus for 52 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,850 Andrew Hanson: one year's delivery, because much of what's done in financial 53 00:02:47,850 --> 00:02:50,340 Andrew Hanson: services, the value of what's been done may play out 54 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:53,760 Andrew Hanson: over a period of time. So regulatory forces have forced 55 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,610 Andrew Hanson: to change there. But yes, in many of the sectors 56 00:02:56,610 --> 00:03:00,060 Andrew Hanson: we recruit into, bonuses are a part of compensation. But 57 00:03:00,389 --> 00:03:03,300 Andrew Hanson: I would say that over time they've become slightly less 58 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,600 Andrew Hanson: important in the overall makeup of compensation. 59 00:03:07,139 --> 00:03:10,169 Sean Aylmer: Do they work? I have worked in jobs where I 60 00:03:10,169 --> 00:03:12,630 Sean Aylmer: got a bonus and it was great to get a 61 00:03:12,630 --> 00:03:15,930 Sean Aylmer: bonus, but I didn't really work for a bonus. If 62 00:03:15,930 --> 00:03:18,990 Sean Aylmer: you're sitting there in December, I'm not thinking about my 63 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:20,669 Sean Aylmer: bonus the following July or August. 64 00:03:21,780 --> 00:03:25,620 Andrew Hanson: So, annual bonuses obviously are a little more difficult, and 65 00:03:25,620 --> 00:03:27,300 Andrew Hanson: again, it's going to be dependent on the type of 66 00:03:27,300 --> 00:03:29,880 Andrew Hanson: role. If it's a revenue generating role, if it's a 67 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,450 Andrew Hanson: role that's linked to performance of bringing in a certain 68 00:03:33,450 --> 00:03:35,970 Andrew Hanson: amount of profit over a period, then I think that 69 00:03:35,970 --> 00:03:38,850 Andrew Hanson: naturally that is something that people expect in those types 70 00:03:38,850 --> 00:03:41,580 Andrew Hanson: of roles. I do think they work because people are 71 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:45,210 Andrew Hanson: working towards a particular sum over a period of time 72 00:03:45,210 --> 00:03:48,660 Andrew Hanson: and they can be very motivational. Having said that, in 73 00:03:48,660 --> 00:03:52,260 Andrew Hanson: other sectors, and we've seen some big names come out 74 00:03:52,290 --> 00:03:55,860 Andrew Hanson: of more recent startups that have become unicorns where they're 75 00:03:55,860 --> 00:03:58,410 Andrew Hanson: talking about it not being a culture, where they want 76 00:03:58,410 --> 00:04:00,240 Andrew Hanson: people to be working for a bonus, and that they're 77 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,610 Andrew Hanson: working to do the best job they can all the 78 00:04:02,610 --> 00:04:07,320 Andrew Hanson: time. Therefore, their compensation package inclusive of all the benefits 79 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,070 Andrew Hanson: that they get should reflect that, as opposed to something 80 00:04:11,070 --> 00:04:12,300 Andrew Hanson: that happens once a year. 81 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:16,859 Sean Aylmer: So those unicorns that you are talking about generally are 82 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:21,000 Sean Aylmer: tech unicorns. If you look at the industries, the white 83 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,029 Sean Aylmer: collar industries that you look at, is it the tech 84 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,900 Sean Aylmer: area where compensation is growing fastest? 85 00:04:28,290 --> 00:04:30,180 Andrew Hanson: Well, it's funny you should mention that. I think more 86 00:04:30,180 --> 00:04:35,429 Andrew Hanson: recently with the market changing quite rapidly in particular in 87 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:38,160 Andrew Hanson: the US, there's been a pretty big shift. So there's 88 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,089 Andrew Hanson: been some significant falls in particular in the tech sector 89 00:04:42,150 --> 00:04:46,620 Andrew Hanson: and in startups where listed companies are now valued significantly 90 00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:49,980 Andrew Hanson: less than they were previously. So there are some different forces at 91 00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:53,400 Andrew Hanson: play with venture capital and private equity backed businesses that 92 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,570 Andrew Hanson: have much lower valuations now. For many that join these 93 00:04:57,570 --> 00:05:01,680 Andrew Hanson: types of businesses, the equity or stock in a business 94 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,250 Andrew Hanson: like that would form part of a compensation package for 95 00:05:05,250 --> 00:05:07,919 Andrew Hanson: the individual. So, that in itself is one particular area 96 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,520 Andrew Hanson: of the market where there's definitely been some change in 97 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,100 Andrew Hanson: terms of how people are viewing their own circumstance, i. 98 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,010 Andrew Hanson: e. this is what I'm worth now because the stock 99 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:19,200 Andrew Hanson: of the firm that I've joined where I have X 100 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,770 Andrew Hanson: percent or X number of shares is now worth significantly 101 00:05:22,770 --> 00:05:26,040 Andrew Hanson: less. So yeah, we've been speaking a lot with clients 102 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,060 Andrew Hanson: and candidates where that shift has potentially, or starting to 103 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:32,190 Andrew Hanson: see a bit more talent come to market, where perhaps 104 00:05:32,190 --> 00:05:34,800 Andrew Hanson: they were beholden to the firm previously because of the 105 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,490 Andrew Hanson: value of their stock. But that's changed in the short term. 106 00:05:38,490 --> 00:05:41,070 Sean Aylmer: I hadn't thought of that. That must free up the market 107 00:05:41,070 --> 00:05:45,299 Sean Aylmer: somewhat if a share price has gone from $ 10 to $5 and the 108 00:05:45,330 --> 00:05:48,600 Sean Aylmer: strike price of their options is $ 5. 50, suddenly not 109 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,430 Sean Aylmer: so attractive for them to hang around with that tech company. 110 00:05:50,790 --> 00:05:53,460 Andrew Hanson: Look, it is, but I won't say unfortunately as a 111 00:05:53,460 --> 00:05:55,950 Andrew Hanson: recruiter and I'd say between a third and a half 112 00:05:55,950 --> 00:06:00,300 Andrew Hanson: of our consultants are facing into tech and transformation. We 113 00:06:00,330 --> 00:06:03,330 Andrew Hanson: unfortunately haven't solved all of the problems for our clients, 114 00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:06,089 Andrew Hanson: with the talent shortages that exist out there. So yes, 115 00:06:06,089 --> 00:06:09,180 Andrew Hanson: we've definitely seen two things happen. One is people giving 116 00:06:09,180 --> 00:06:12,089 Andrew Hanson: consideration to where they are now and whether it's all 117 00:06:12,089 --> 00:06:14,669 Andrew Hanson: that it's made up to be. We've seen some big 118 00:06:14,670 --> 00:06:17,370 Andrew Hanson: names, one that comes to mind that had been in 119 00:06:17,370 --> 00:06:19,140 Andrew Hanson: the press was Klarna, for example, that have come out 120 00:06:19,140 --> 00:06:22,260 Andrew Hanson: and said that they'd made a significant reduction in headcount 121 00:06:22,260 --> 00:06:25,799 Andrew Hanson: and that they were cost focused. Any firms that are 122 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,020 Andrew Hanson: aligned with crypto, we've seen quite a bit of movement 123 00:06:28,260 --> 00:06:30,929 Andrew Hanson: in terms of downward headcount pressure on some of these 124 00:06:30,930 --> 00:06:35,070 Andrew Hanson: businesses. But we are still experiencing and witnessing a talent shortage in 125 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,890 Andrew Hanson: many of the areas across technology and transformation 126 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,500 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me. Andrew, we'll be back in a minute. 127 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:49,770 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Andrew Hanson, managing director New 128 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:55,500 Sean Aylmer: South Wales at Robert Walters. Okay. So technology and transformation, 129 00:06:55,500 --> 00:07:00,630 Sean Aylmer: where else are there talent shortages? You're not allowed to say everywhere because when 130 00:07:00,630 --> 00:07:03,450 Sean Aylmer: we have an unemployment rate of 4. 5%, The obvious answer 131 00:07:03,450 --> 00:07:06,960 Sean Aylmer: is that there are shortages everywhere. But where are you seeing it particularly harsh? 132 00:07:07,770 --> 00:07:11,160 Andrew Hanson: For us, many of the sectors that I am absolutely 133 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,890 Andrew Hanson: aware and I'm looking at the data that's coming through 134 00:07:13,950 --> 00:07:17,430 Andrew Hanson: outside some of our core areas of focus, but certainly 135 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:19,980 Andrew Hanson: in the healthcare sector, we know that there are massive 136 00:07:19,980 --> 00:07:21,930 Andrew Hanson: talent shortages. Not that we do a lot of work 137 00:07:21,930 --> 00:07:24,840 Andrew Hanson: specifically in that world, but we know there is. Construction 138 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,070 Andrew Hanson: we know. Transport, storage, manufacturing and retail are the sectors 139 00:07:29,070 --> 00:07:31,230 Andrew Hanson: that come up that have the biggest concern at the 140 00:07:31,230 --> 00:07:34,650 Andrew Hanson: moment when they've been surveyed in the March to June 141 00:07:34,650 --> 00:07:38,970 Andrew Hanson: quarters. So those areas in particular are the ones where 142 00:07:39,180 --> 00:07:42,360 Andrew Hanson: we're witnessing the biggest talent shortages, and I think the 143 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,440 Andrew Hanson: most impactful and the biggest reported is around healthcare and 144 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:47,430 Andrew Hanson: the aged care sector. 145 00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:52,290 Sean Aylmer: Those sectors, which are traditionally lower paid than some of 146 00:07:52,290 --> 00:07:56,310 Sean Aylmer: the other white collar sectors, how does an operator... They 147 00:07:56,310 --> 00:08:00,179 Sean Aylmer: need people aged care, they need people in healthcare. The 148 00:08:00,180 --> 00:08:02,040 Sean Aylmer: economics of it says that they're going to have to 149 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,090 Sean Aylmer: pay more. Can they afford it, is the first question. 150 00:08:06,510 --> 00:08:08,940 Sean Aylmer: Do they actually do that? Do they actually pay more? 151 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,480 Sean Aylmer: Or do we just seemingly have this inevitable shortage of 152 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:13,590 Sean Aylmer: nurses, for example? 153 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,030 Andrew Hanson: Absolutely. Well, before I speak on that one sector, that 154 00:08:18,030 --> 00:08:20,490 Andrew Hanson: I probably should also include his hospitality. I think a 155 00:08:20,490 --> 00:08:22,440 Andrew Hanson: lot of us has probably witnessed this ourselves in our 156 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,320 Andrew Hanson: daily life. Through friends and others that I know in 157 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,470 Andrew Hanson: the industry, perhaps I have better anecdotal evidence to talk 158 00:08:28,470 --> 00:08:31,560 Andrew Hanson: about what, what challenges that exist there with that lower 159 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:36,240 Andrew Hanson: skilled workforce and where wages are. Whilst people might be 160 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,570 Andrew Hanson: paying up to 50% above Award for people to work 161 00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:42,660 Andrew Hanson: in hospitality, for example, in a restaurant, in a pub, 162 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:45,840 Andrew Hanson: they can't afford to go any higher than that. A 163 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,360 Andrew Hanson: lot of places are limiting their hours of service, whether 164 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,610 Andrew Hanson: they're not able to open for lunch, or they've got 165 00:08:50,940 --> 00:08:52,800 Andrew Hanson: a limited number of heads that they're bringing in to. 166 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,390 Andrew Hanson: I spoke to one mate the other day who runs 167 00:08:54,390 --> 00:08:57,870 Andrew Hanson: a successful chain of small bars in the city, and 168 00:08:58,140 --> 00:08:59,760 Andrew Hanson: they've had to limit the number of people that they 169 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,309 Andrew Hanson: can bring into a venue. They could take 120, they're 170 00:09:02,309 --> 00:09:06,270 Andrew Hanson: only letting 70 in. So look, I'm not particularly well qualified 171 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:08,309 Andrew Hanson: to talk about healthcare, so I won't. But I will 172 00:09:08,309 --> 00:09:12,209 Andrew Hanson: say that honestly, I'm not sure businesses can afford to 173 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:14,400 Andrew Hanson: pay what they might need to. Of course, there's that 174 00:09:14,490 --> 00:09:18,540 Andrew Hanson: supply and demand. If there's X number of people, then 175 00:09:18,690 --> 00:09:21,059 Andrew Hanson: the market's relatively efficient, but there's a point at which 176 00:09:21,059 --> 00:09:23,489 Andrew Hanson: it stops. We've got to challenge both in terms of 177 00:09:23,490 --> 00:09:25,500 Andrew Hanson: some of the unskilled labor, and then at the other 178 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:29,250 Andrew Hanson: end of the spectrum, clearly at the skilled labor end 179 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:29,670 Andrew Hanson: as well. 180 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,679 Sean Aylmer: Do you have a solution to it all, Andrew? That 181 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,950 Sean Aylmer: wasn't supposed to be a funny question. Is it about upskilling? 182 00:09:37,950 --> 00:09:41,610 Sean Aylmer: Is it about doing things better? Is it about even 183 00:09:41,610 --> 00:09:45,630 Sean Aylmer: for individual candidates, I'm sure as an individual candidate, you 184 00:09:45,630 --> 00:09:49,290 Sean Aylmer: can negotiate harder. Is it just the market, so we 185 00:09:49,290 --> 00:09:50,520 Sean Aylmer: just have to get our way through it? 186 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,439 Andrew Hanson: No. And apologies, not a funny question at all. But 187 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,140 Andrew Hanson: a particular challenge at the moment, and I just mused 188 00:09:58,140 --> 00:10:00,000 Andrew Hanson: on the fact that I wish I had all the 189 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,890 Andrew Hanson: solutions, but what I will say is that I think 190 00:10:02,340 --> 00:10:05,520 Andrew Hanson: my take is that in the short term, so in 191 00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:09,210 Andrew Hanson: September the government and the unions and business will come 192 00:10:09,210 --> 00:10:13,109 Andrew Hanson: together for the jobs and skills meeting. I think that 193 00:10:13,230 --> 00:10:15,690 Andrew Hanson: I read from the treasurer saying the other day that 194 00:10:15,690 --> 00:10:18,059 Andrew Hanson: there were ideally going to be, and hoping, that they'll 195 00:10:18,059 --> 00:10:24,450 Andrew Hanson: find consensus between business, unions and the government. I reflected 196 00:10:24,450 --> 00:10:27,120 Andrew Hanson: on that and thought, well, my advice would be, I 197 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,520 Andrew Hanson: don't think at this point in the short term, and 198 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,160 Andrew Hanson: certainly with regards to skilled migrants, and I know there's 199 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,720 Andrew Hanson: been lots in the press recently about the 60, 000 offshore skilled 200 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,900 Andrew Hanson: migrant applications that we have for visas, that the government 201 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:43,350 Andrew Hanson: are looking to try and process significantly faster than they 202 00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:46,980 Andrew Hanson: are at the moment. That's clearly one positive step we 203 00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:50,160 Andrew Hanson: can make to attend to the skilled shortages that we 204 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,860 Andrew Hanson: have in the market at present. I do believe that 205 00:10:52,860 --> 00:10:55,050 Andrew Hanson: there's more that we can do in the short term 206 00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:59,429 Andrew Hanson: to look to migration for some of those. Outside of 207 00:10:59,429 --> 00:11:03,239 Andrew Hanson: that, clearly it's a much wider thing on education, on 208 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,110 Andrew Hanson: training, on re- skilling our people. I guess whilst we've 209 00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:11,130 Andrew Hanson: got talent shortages currently, we continue to move forward with 210 00:11:11,130 --> 00:11:14,189 Andrew Hanson: technological advances, roles are changing, and some of the skills 211 00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:16,290 Andrew Hanson: that we have need for in the market today will 212 00:11:16,290 --> 00:11:19,199 Andrew Hanson: change. However, some of those skills, or some of the 213 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,660 Andrew Hanson: people that are doing those roles, will be able to re- 214 00:11:21,660 --> 00:11:23,490 Andrew Hanson: skill to do some of the roles that are needed 215 00:11:23,580 --> 00:11:25,349 Andrew Hanson: down the track. I don't think it's all about the 216 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:28,260 Andrew Hanson: fact that headcount will reduce in every role across every 217 00:11:28,260 --> 00:11:30,059 Andrew Hanson: sector. But I do think that the skills are going 218 00:11:30,059 --> 00:11:32,250 Andrew Hanson: to be needed in three to five years time will 219 00:11:32,250 --> 00:11:34,679 Andrew Hanson: be different in many ways than are needed at the 220 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,230 Andrew Hanson: moment. So I think it's a combination of all of 221 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:40,109 Andrew Hanson: those things between what we're doing here in terms of 222 00:11:40,110 --> 00:11:43,740 Andrew Hanson: how we're educating our workforce, how we're re- skilling people 223 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,929 Andrew Hanson: and how we're training. Then at the same time, trying 224 00:11:45,929 --> 00:11:47,790 Andrew Hanson: to think about where we have those gaps. It is 225 00:11:47,790 --> 00:11:51,390 Andrew Hanson: about identifying those gaps and being very targeted as to 226 00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:55,710 Andrew Hanson: where we would look to overseas individuals and migrants to 227 00:11:55,710 --> 00:11:58,859 Andrew Hanson: come and fill those shortages. They exist now, and my 228 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:02,640 Andrew Hanson: concern is that waiting until September and then onward from 229 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,250 Andrew Hanson: there to get going on some of this is a 230 00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:07,770 Andrew Hanson: concern for, not only for me as a recruiter where 231 00:12:07,770 --> 00:12:10,679 Andrew Hanson: I'm trying to help my clients solve their talent problems, 232 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,390 Andrew Hanson: but I know it's also for a lot of business 233 00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:14,069 Andrew Hanson: leaders that I speak to everyday as well. 234 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,410 Sean Aylmer: Andrew, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 235 00:12:16,890 --> 00:12:17,579 Andrew Hanson: Wonderful. Thank you. 236 00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:20,670 Sean Aylmer: That was Andrew Hanson, managing director New South Wales at 237 00:12:20,730 --> 00:12:23,640 Sean Aylmer: Robert Walters. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. 238 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,700 Sean Aylmer: Remember you should get professional advice before making any investment 239 00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:29,220 Sean Aylmer: decisions. Join us every morning for the full episode of 240 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:32,370 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean 241 00:12:32,370 --> 00:12:33,449 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Enjoy your day.