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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor and Mark boris.

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Speaker 2: Man, Michael's Travis Ricky Travis. That's a pretty fancy name,

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Speaker 2: Travis Rickyardo and we're mispronouncing it and I'm.

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Speaker 3: Not even God, it's easier for everyone.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor.

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Speaker 4: Guys, thank you, thank you very much for having it.

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Speaker 2: And your business is called Money of Mine's podcast, Money

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Speaker 2: of Mine podcast, So is it a money of mine?

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Speaker 2: Like this is very centric, So what are we talking

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Speaker 2: about money of the in the mind or money of

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Speaker 2: belongs to you guys both we're talking about playing words already.

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Speaker 4: I can't say there was shiploads of thought that went

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Speaker 4: into it. It was because I had a podcast called

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Speaker 4: Life of Mine and we're we're going to start talking

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Speaker 4: about finance, will just change it to money and that

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Speaker 4: was it. Too much analysis scorn that went into it,

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Speaker 4: that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: So you started the whole thing basically, Yeah, Well I was.

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Speaker 4: I was doing a potty before, just talking to people

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Speaker 4: about people in the mining industry, and then wanted to

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Speaker 4: get out of mining. And this was I was doing

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Speaker 4: five file at the time.

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Speaker 2: So this was which means first in, first out.

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Speaker 1: Then fit in or off.

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Speaker 4: Then I was like, this is me tick it out,

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Speaker 4: so I'm not going to try this full time and

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Speaker 4: then was sort of limping my way through it, but

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Speaker 4: obviously got the attention of these two blogs that are like,

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Speaker 4: we could probably come and save this guy, and had

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Speaker 4: a bit of financial credibility to the show because I

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Speaker 4: was the mining focused.

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Speaker 1: And what's that mean? What's what's your background?

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Speaker 4: Mining engineer?

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Speaker 2: And underground minor so which means much about mining, So

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Speaker 2: it means you you actually put one of those hard

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Speaker 2: outs on and go down to the in the box

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Speaker 2: and got a couple of commas underground.

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Speaker 5: And he was on the Jumbo and like the way

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Speaker 5: to think about a jumbo, that's the bottleneck to production.

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Speaker 5: You're like at the oar face trying to you know, buddy,

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Speaker 5: break Rock is fast big thing.

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Speaker 4: It's like a big bloody transformer. It's one of those

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Speaker 4: YouTube things. You'd have to look it. It's like he's

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Speaker 4: got these big two it's like twenty nearly twenty meters long,

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Speaker 4: and it's got these bloody arms on it with the

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Speaker 4: drill steels and you use that to put all the

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Speaker 4: ground support up. Then you drill all the holes in

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Speaker 4: the face to charge it. With explosives and like.

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Speaker 1: You literally blow it up, blow up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the sort of the main thing

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Speaker 4: that develops all the travel ways and accesses undergrounds.

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Speaker 1: Where about we're talking about oh this was.

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Speaker 4: Oh god, worked all through Western Australia. But yeah, there's

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Speaker 4: you know, underground mines everywhere.

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Speaker 1: So the podcast is Westtralian Business.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're Perth based. Yeah, I'm from here originally, so

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Speaker 4: I haven't got into AFL yet. Yeah, I've been there

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Speaker 4: for fourteen years or something. So yeah, that's that's the

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Speaker 4: Perth's the w A, that's the that's the center of

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Speaker 4: mining that's in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Like think.

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Speaker 2: So it's certainly runs the economy over there, that's for sure,

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Speaker 2: in terms of rawties for the state government.

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Speaker 1: That's that's mental over there. And what about you two guys,

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Speaker 1: so Jerry, what about you?

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Speaker 3: So I'd worked with Trav previously and we'd heard the

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Speaker 3: podcast that Maddie was doing Life of Mine and it

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Speaker 3: started to get into the financial things a bit, so

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Speaker 3: spoken with people in the funds management sector who specialized

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Speaker 3: in natural resources, and Trev and I were living in

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Speaker 3: Melbourne at the time, and I remember actually bumping into

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Speaker 3: him and you know, chowing them phone is like, have

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Speaker 3: you heard this one? You listened to this? Actually it's

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Speaker 3: actually pretty bloody good, you know. So Maddie was interviewing

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Speaker 3: a couple other people, you know, on a not as

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Speaker 3: frequent cadence because we do it pretty much, you know,

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Speaker 3: four days a week now, and he.

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Speaker 1: Was a full time thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and he was doing sort of weekly ones,

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Speaker 3: if I remember right at the time. And yeah, Trav

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Speaker 3: got so excited he just walked out the shop we

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Speaker 3: were in with a handful of clothes and everything just

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Speaker 3: walked out. And then you know, I had to go

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Speaker 3: running back in, but didn't.

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Speaker 1: Pay for him.

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Speaker 5: Eventually I realized.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we'd sort of trave and I caught

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Speaker 3: up again for a beer late late the year before last,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, and were sort of keen to sort

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Speaker 3: of start a business. And yeah, there was a few

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Speaker 3: other things rumbling in the background in our personal lives

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Speaker 3: and everyone was sort of keen.

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Speaker 1: To make let's talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, from my perspective, I was just pretty bored

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Speaker 3: in my job, just incredibly bored with what I was

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Speaker 3: doing doing with that I was.

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Speaker 6: Doing management consulting. So yeah, probably.

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Speaker 3: Flash as boring as it sounds, and yeah, just itching

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Speaker 3: to start a business of our own and you know,

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Speaker 3: get a bit of a grasp and work for ourselves

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Speaker 3: and stuff, and that the boys said had pretty similar

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Speaker 3: thoughts of their own, and yeah, it was Traphood reached

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Speaker 3: out to Maddie sort of late twenty twenty two, sort

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Speaker 3: of early twenty three. By the time they caught up.

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Speaker 3: I was still sort of in Melbourne at the time.

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Speaker 3: One thing's led to another and we just had a

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Speaker 3: bit of a three way phone shout and thought, let's

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Speaker 3: just quit all our jobs and everything, give this a crack.

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Speaker 3: Decided pretty much on the spot that we're going to

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Speaker 3: give this a go. And then in April of twenty

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Speaker 3: three he kicked off full time, going five days a week,

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Speaker 3: releasing a podcast talking about the the financial aspects of

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Speaker 3: mining companies and you know, perhaps a bit what's misunderstood

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Speaker 3: across Australia and in a bit of a different lens

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Speaker 3: to anything you'll get out there.

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Speaker 4: The first day. The first day was very funny that

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Speaker 4: we because we literally met JD for the first time

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Speaker 4: the day before, the day before we were going to

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Speaker 4: do the first ever shut and there was obviously hanging

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Speaker 4: around with Trav. I hadn't met Trav till he approached

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Speaker 4: me either, And so JD's like moved over from Melbourne

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Speaker 4: back to Perth to start this business. And then day

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Speaker 4: one I was like going through a bit of a

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Speaker 4: phase where I was back on the darts and so

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Speaker 4: I'm sitting out the front having a rolle and JD's

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Speaker 4: like lot probably thinking who is this done? And then

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Speaker 4: then there was oh, are we allowed to tell the

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Speaker 4: other one.

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Speaker 5: The cop that just a couple of rocks up at

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Speaker 5: the front of the house, like looking.

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Speaker 3: This is this is an awful we started the business.

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Speaker 5: They're looking for the previous person that lived there, not me.

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Speaker 5: I just moved anyway. It just it looked horrible, like

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Speaker 5: Maddie's bloody, you know, withdraw from smoking. And I'm dropping

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Speaker 5: up and Jad's like I'm relocated back to person.

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Speaker 6: What are we doing to start a podcast?

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Speaker 4: And then we get to day one of where we're

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Speaker 4: doing the first show and we've like prepped the show

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Speaker 4: to talk about this is episode number one, and then

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Speaker 4: we get we set up all the cameras and I'm like, right, Jada,

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Speaker 4: you're you're there. He's like, I'm not in it, am I.

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Speaker 4: He's like, I thought I was just doing all the

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Speaker 4: research and stuff. I'm like, JD, what the fuck did

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Speaker 4: you think you were going to be doing?

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Speaker 1: Of course there and what the podcast is?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and the first, the first one, he was it

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Speaker 4: took him like a few weeks to sort of bloody

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Speaker 4: stop down cold sweats and everything. Before every episode it

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Speaker 4: was just shipping bricks, but now on easy straight and

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Speaker 4: just just the absolute natural now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was pretty similar to public speaking before and I

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Speaker 3: was like freaking out, what the hell am I doing

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Speaker 3: starting the bloody podcast for?

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Speaker 1: Did you have a script it? You guys script it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're just down points, not specific like not word

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Speaker 3: for word at least, but.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the flow of the show is ultimately

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Speaker 5: every morning there's a flurry of ASX listed mining company

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Speaker 5: announcements and you know then.

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Speaker 1: Before the AX list, before the AX open.

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Speaker 5: Totally and so we're yeah, we during and we will

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Speaker 5: basically because we've got diverse skill sets undergo mining, equity research,

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Speaker 5: investment banking, we look to kind of untangle it and

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Speaker 5: conveyed in a story that in simple language that a

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Speaker 5: generalist can like understand. So in the morning we'll literally

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Speaker 5: spend like six hours sort of like what's the most

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Speaker 5: important story, like getting our facts and information, and then

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Speaker 5: we'll type dop points and that'll be the basis of

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Speaker 5: the conversation that will have when we record button on

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Speaker 5: a few different company stories and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 5: But there's probably like six hours of prep before.

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Speaker 1: But every day is enough material every day to have a.

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Speaker 5: Show, more than enough not having me.

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Speaker 4: These two pluck shit out of nowhere and I'm like

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Speaker 4: companies or companies or commodities. I didn't even know bloody existed.

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Speaker 4: And between the three, but then I'll do go off

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Speaker 4: in some random tangent one day. So between the three

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Speaker 4: of us there's always content.

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Speaker 1: But does one contribute? Is one? Does one of you

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Speaker 1: lead the conversation each.

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Speaker 2: Day because it's your area expertise, your particular interest. For example,

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Speaker 2: if there's a commodities day, does you know JD do

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Speaker 2: it or has it work?

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Speaker 4: If it's uranium, that's me at the moment, anything mining

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Speaker 4: underground mining specific or like metallurgy or something that's probably

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Speaker 4: me from the mining background, And then I've gone bloody

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Speaker 4: balls deep in uranium, recent drabs, bloody deals.

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Speaker 5: I love it, like you know, unpacked, Yeah, pointing out

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Speaker 5: like real dubious behavior. I love that. I love showing the.

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Speaker 2: Big sh with him last year, like you know, the

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Speaker 2: blue the competition between Juna, Ryan Hart and Minray's guys.

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Speaker 5: We were all over it.

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Speaker 4: Loved it.

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Speaker 5: We were like that was you know, getting tangled up

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Speaker 5: in live hostile sort of m and a stuff. Is like,

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Speaker 5: that's a huge, huge thing for us because it's like

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Speaker 5: he's a big deal, is important people, big personalities, characters

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Speaker 5: and and it's typically kind of stuff that you layman

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Speaker 5: doesn't quite understand what's going on there. But if we

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Speaker 5: can play a role and unpacking it and be what

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Speaker 5: I particularly like is wedging ourselves into it, that's awesome.

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Speaker 5: That's so much fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we had the exact same concern as what you

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Speaker 3: said before. It's like, is there going to be enough

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Speaker 3: to chat about every day? There's always so much going

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Speaker 3: on and like you know, mining might sound quite niche,

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Speaker 3: but when you look at like the basket of commodities,

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Speaker 3: how macro can I makes influences that the you know,

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Speaker 3: thousand plus companies on the ASX, A good portion being

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Speaker 3: mining companies from you know, Junior.

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Speaker 6: Explorers all the way through to b HB and Rio tinto.

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Speaker 6: There is always something to talk about, you know.

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Speaker 2: So you're picking themes, like you know, like the big

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Speaker 2: theme now is copper or one of the big themes

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Speaker 2: you've given, you know, like how micro processes and computers

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Speaker 2: that a new copper and evs or electric cars all

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Speaker 2: that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you pick themes?

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Speaker 3: I think there's sort of themes in what we interest

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Speaker 3: Like what guides us is always what we're interested in,

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Speaker 3: and that, you know, because we do a lot of

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Speaker 3: interviews as well, almost you know, sometimes you know, half

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Speaker 3: the week will be interviews, you know, two or three

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Speaker 3: episodes a week will be interviews. And that might be

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Speaker 3: with a metallurgist, it might be with a geologist, it

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Speaker 3: might be with someone who's got specific knowledge on copper,

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Speaker 3: on copper smelters and whatnot.

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Speaker 6: Or fund managers or not.

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Speaker 3: But I think that the guiding light is always what's

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Speaker 3: interesting to us, and we just keep going down because

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Speaker 3: the audience can feel when you're super passionate about something,

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Speaker 3: when you're eager to get into it, when you're excited

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Speaker 3: about what you're talking about you know, it's almost Buddy poalpable.

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Speaker 1: Ten years ago, I got involved.

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Speaker 2: A bloke got me to get involved in a copper

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Speaker 2: mine in Chili, and I knew funk all about copper,

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Speaker 2: but it seemed interesting at the time, and.

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Speaker 4: So I would we just want cash?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, but I flew to Chili and one of

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Speaker 2: the capital of chilis I come remember Santiago via New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: So you know, it was all pretty interesting that trip itself.

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Speaker 2: And then from San Diego we had to go up

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Speaker 2: to where the copper mines were, so I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: the andes were so close to the beach. And then

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Speaker 2: went up into the mountains, up into the mountain like

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Speaker 2: and you go from pretty nice like habitat to like

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Speaker 2: you feel like you're on the moon, and then everywhere

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Speaker 2: there's this rocks with green which is you know, the ore.

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Speaker 2: It was amazing, Like it was an amazing thing for me

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Speaker 2: to do. Like in the end, we got dudded by

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Speaker 2: our partners because you had to have a partner, and

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Speaker 2: they were they were dunning us in terms of registrations

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Speaker 2: of exploration license and all sort of whatever the licensing

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Speaker 2: stuff and and then I blew them.

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Speaker 1: I did my money. Well maybe I did. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Maybe I still got an interest in I don't.

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Speaker 4: Know, but I check.

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Speaker 2: It was very close to the BHP mine, the very

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Speaker 2: famous bh copp of mind like it was like condit

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Speaker 2: you can see it. So that was the cell to me,

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Speaker 2: because you know what, the largest copp mine in the world,

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Speaker 2: one of the large cop mines of the world. And

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Speaker 2: that got me in straight well, I thought, well, fuck me,

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Speaker 2: if that mountain air is full of this, one is.

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Speaker 1: Going to have some, He's going to have some.

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Speaker 2: It was, it was, but it was but I've never

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Speaker 2: really been involved mining for but to be honest with it,

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Speaker 2: was like I got like hooked like mining metal, you know,

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Speaker 2: and it's something really magical about or adventurous, like it's

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Speaker 2: pretty cool, and I'd imagine your audience, there'd be people

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Speaker 2: in your audience like me who would be who would

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Speaker 2: think the same him was like, it's really magical, like

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Speaker 2: and and people make fucking.

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Speaker 1: Fortunes, like absolute fortunes out of it.

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Speaker 2: And it got me to fly from Sydney to Chile

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Speaker 2: and you know, invested a reason about of money in it.

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Speaker 1: And and then there's always a good story. You can

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Speaker 1: associate with it like a good thing, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, like right now as the cop has come back Cop,

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Speaker 2: I think that the issue for me at the time

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Speaker 2: was the thing that we met. The copper price are

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Speaker 2: really high. The price to get this cop out of

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Speaker 2: the ground was fixed. But because cop price was.

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Speaker 1: Really high, it made sense.

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Speaker 2: And then what happened is compon price has just died

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Speaker 2: in the ass and all of a sudden it wasn't

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Speaker 2: any longer viable. Now Cop has gone back the other way,

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Speaker 2: and I think to himself, who.

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Speaker 1: Who the fuck ow is that that?

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Speaker 2: That the rights of that mine now? Like and I've

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Speaker 2: actually looked a bloke up that got me in the first.

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Speaker 1: Place, and he doesn't even sit anymore.

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Speaker 4: Done his dog.

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Speaker 2: So mining has has got this sort of history around it,

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Speaker 2: like if you look at Junior and the family and

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Speaker 2: like Lang Hancock and you know, all that sort of

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Speaker 2: it's sort of cowboys stuff, a little bit of cowboy stuff,

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Speaker 2: and obviously it's it's cheme quite sophisticated too, but it

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Speaker 2: is more very sophisticated. But there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: that wild West ship associated with it, and I love that.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cool.

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Speaker 5: If there's one observation to make about the mining industry

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Speaker 5: that is so different to any other industry. It's that

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Speaker 5: people with not much capability or credibility can get extremely

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Speaker 5: wealthy with a little bit of luck because of expiration success.

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Speaker 5: And that lends itself to an industry where you have

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Speaker 5: some fascinating characters like I don't think any other industry

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Speaker 5: at the top of the game or the you know,

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Speaker 5: the wealthiest people in the industry can sometimes be you know, proper,

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Speaker 5: you know, like just Alarikens or loose Units.

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Speaker 1: Or Lang Hankog is a good example, by the way.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well he was probably more of a pioneer in

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Speaker 5: some ways. You can get lucky. You know, he took

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Speaker 5: risk and you know peg ground and the first move

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Speaker 5: advantage and sort of his ambitions. But you know, in

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Speaker 5: the modern day mining success with expiration success, sometimes there's

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Speaker 5: luck involved. You turn the rig around and' just like

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Speaker 5: having to be deposit there, you can't you know, really

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Speaker 5: put much thought into it.

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Speaker 4: An epeg ground for a commodity that was bloody a

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Speaker 4: very low price per ton, that required billions and billions

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Speaker 4: of dollars of capex, so you have at the time, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so compared to like a gold mine, like you know,

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Speaker 4: it's not it's pretty easy to start a gold mine.

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Speaker 4: It's not heaps, like yeah, you're mining a very high

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Speaker 4: grade piece of material, whereas iron ore is just fricking bulk.

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Speaker 4: The scale of like yeah, it's like this room's the

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Speaker 4: iron all that's the cameras the gold mine in terms

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Speaker 4: of just the scale of how big they are. So

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Speaker 4: for what he did, and look at Andrew Forrest is

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Speaker 4: a great example, Like he went into shit loads of

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Speaker 4: debt and some got through. Like that was the biggest

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Speaker 4: critic on Forsku was how much debt they have, but

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Speaker 4: he still retained thirty six percent of the company. He

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Speaker 4: will split between his wife, but like to retain that

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Speaker 4: much equity lock he's he gets like what four billion

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Speaker 4: dollars in dividends just in dividends per year then without.

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Speaker 1: Big ball and get through that on that scale with on.

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Speaker 4: Or that's what oors. But they're just all that capital

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Speaker 4: has been sunk and their cost cost of operating is

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Speaker 4: just absolutely being rea. They're just like ten or twenty

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Speaker 4: bucks a ton, it's unbelievable and selling them for a

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Speaker 4: hundred odd.

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Speaker 3: And lang Lange never owned a mine. It's like the

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Speaker 3: way he's license, he essentually sold them for the royalties,

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Speaker 3: which which Gina still has to this day, and got

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Speaker 3: you know, the partners. Japanese funders read tinto to to

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Speaker 3: fund the minds because it's like Maddie says, just phenomenal

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Speaker 3: amounts of money need to be perhaps more money than

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Speaker 3: any other industry, maybe semiconductors nowadays, where the capex is

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Speaker 3: just that outrageously big, you know, building train trains that

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Speaker 3: go hundreds and hundreds of kilometers and almost ships, everything,

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Speaker 3: port sports, it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: And you said something really interesting before about macro macroeconomics.

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Speaker 2: In order for you know, own or to work or

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Speaker 2: copper or whatever it is, you know, you've got to

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Speaker 2: get there's a global price that's got to make it work,

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Speaker 2: makes sense in order to invest all the capital you've

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Speaker 2: got to invest, and blah blah blah. That whole the

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Speaker 2: way macroeconomics changes, which is interesting because probably years and

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Speaker 2: years ago you would be out there on your own

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Speaker 2: doing your macroeconomic report, your report on why copper is

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Speaker 2: an important commodity, and you know where the demand's now

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Speaker 2: coming from and why the price has moved from this

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Speaker 2: price to this price the all price, the all price

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Speaker 2: I should say, relative to cost price.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Maddie, you wouldn't been talking abouttie. Maddie

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Speaker 1: would have been in there. He would have been deep

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Speaker 1: in the mind engineering doing whatever they're doing, and then

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Speaker 1: you would have been doing something else, you like working

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Speaker 1: investment and trying to get the thing funded. But now

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Speaker 1: the three of you pretty.

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Speaker 2: Much represents how a really successful mining organization probably operates.

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Speaker 2: We've got macrocon and meet people around, analysts sitting in there.

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Speaker 2: They've probably got someone in that's arranging the financial raising

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Speaker 2: the capital or whatever topic capital they get from whatever

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Speaker 2: the markets. Then they got someone like Maddie making sure

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Speaker 2: that they can execute.

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Speaker 1: So to some extent, you are like the really high

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Speaker 1: quality modern mining corporation.

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Speaker 4: Very poor HR standards, but something we're lacking. We don't

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Speaker 4: we don't want to boss pretty much, we don't want

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Speaker 4: to work for anyone. That's the and that's why we're

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Speaker 4: why we're doing it. And we're literally just having fun

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Speaker 4: doing something and with people are pain but it's.

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Speaker 1: Pretty serious too at the same time as a serious topic.

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Speaker 4: Very high well, the biggest difference is and why we're

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Speaker 4: over here with our potty. And then there's a bloody

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Speaker 4: shipload of other media, investor relations and podcasts all fighting

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Speaker 4: together over here. And the difference is they're all getting

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Speaker 4: paid by the mining companies to for them to come

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Speaker 4: onto the podcast. Them companies you money. Yeah, so you

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Speaker 4: like your copper copper mind in Chili. Back in the day,

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Speaker 4: like that would have for instance, that would go on

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Speaker 4: the managing director of CEO would go on a podcast,

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Speaker 4: get interviewed about the project, and you listen to it,

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Speaker 4: You're like, Jesus, here goods that sound should invest throwing

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Speaker 4: the cash in, but it's paid for and then you've

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Speaker 4: got people plugging it on social media the investor relations

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Speaker 4: firms that the company is paying or with shareholder money,

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Speaker 4: whereas where like, okay, and this was the when the

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Speaker 4: when we started, the boys are like, right, we're not

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Speaker 4: taking money off companies, and I'm like, I'm broke. How

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Speaker 4: the how is this going to work? I'm like these

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Speaker 4: two young pricks telling me what to do that we're

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Speaker 4: not on fucking punched their head and I'll beat underground.

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Speaker 4: But a year later, I'm like, Jesus Christ, thank god,

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Speaker 4: I listen to them, they're so much smarter than because

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Speaker 4: it was that fundamental decision from the start is that

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Speaker 4: we are fully independent. We don't take money off a

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Speaker 4: mining company ever, any listed company just separated us from

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Speaker 4: the field. Because what we say is our independent view

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Speaker 4: positive or negative.

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Speaker 5: Usually negative, negative, negative.

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Speaker 4: It seems more fun to talk about. And then all

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Speaker 4: these bloody other mobs over here, they're just in our opinion,

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Speaker 4: look bloody stupid doing it.

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Speaker 3: Maddie regularly talks down how smart he is is actually

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Speaker 3: very switched on, and you know, the aspect that he brings,

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Speaker 3: and I think the different skill sets we each have

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Speaker 3: is like one of the one of the attractions if

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Speaker 3: there is one.

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Speaker 6: About our podcast.

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Speaker 3: But like you know exactly what he said, the independence

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Speaker 3: from mining companies is what the model was built on

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Speaker 3: at the moment, and it just makes it a world

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Speaker 3: more fun because we can actually say what we think

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Speaker 3: about companies, what they're doing, about their announcements, their operations,

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Speaker 3: their performance. It just wouldn't be it wouldn't be enjoyable

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Speaker 3: any other way.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to straight the bring on a company because

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Speaker 2: I actually want to talk about your model, your business model,

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Speaker 2: and uh and and you know, we get your revenues from,

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Speaker 2: probably more importantly, how you pick your yes and and

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Speaker 2: how you pick your topics around your advertisers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it or is it around your audience.

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Speaker 1: I'm got to talk about that, so we'll go straight.

439
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 2: To break back.

440
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: In the break, I'm here with the Three Musketeers.

441
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: The business called Money of Mine podcasters or money Mine

442
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: is the podcast man Michaels, Travis Ricciardo, and j D

443
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: otherwise known as Jonas Dueling is better.

444
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 3: There's a bit of German in there, honest, you get actually, yeah, totally.

445
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 4: You would, would you believe on half Lebanese Michaels, Yes, Michael, Yeah,

446
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 4: that was the surname. They that was the first name.

447
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 4: It was Mikhail Jaber. When they moved over more great

448
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 4: grandparents or something, then they take the first name as

449
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 4: the surname.

450
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, no, because a lot of people named Michael's.

451
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 2: They can be Greek and they can be Lebanese. And

452
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 2: I've got I went to school. A whole lot of

453
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: kids I went to Lebanese school here in Sydney. A

454
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,479
Speaker 2: whole lot of the kids were named Tony Michaels, John Michaels, etcetera.

455
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 4: Quite few know John Michael, that's.

456
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: My cousin, even to my school. No, no I know

457
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: John My I know is my agually seventy?

458
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 4: Oh no, no that's not him.

459
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: I'm real service. I don't think it is. We digressed.

460
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 4: All the time.

461
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: School in Kember a place called the Camera in Sydney.

462
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 2: You wouldn't even know her to know where, but it's

463
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: a quite a quite an infamous area in Sydney, like Kember.

464
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: A lot of shootings happened there.

465
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, from I went to I went to Union in Sydney.

466
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm from Sydney.

467
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 4: From Inverell in northern New South Wales. But then yeah,

468
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 4: I lived in Sydney. God's country over to you mate too.

469
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 4: Is new in Western Australia. I can't believe.

470
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: What do they drink there?

471
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 4: Oh, bloody mostly cat pisce Craft Swan draft, but it's

472
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 4: actually Dingo lager has actually taken over now over it.

473
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 4: Remember the Dingo flower logo which was Bondie Alan Bond.

474
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he also owned Swann Swan Brew. Yeah.

475
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 4: So now the bloody someone got bought that bloody trademark

476
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 4: and they put it on a beer.

477
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: Now, so let's get this is a digression. Let's just

478
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: get so. I want to talk to you about your

479
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: business model.

480
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: So one of you pluyees explains to me what is

481
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 2: the business model in a financial sense? So how do

482
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: you attract your audience and in terms of content, and

483
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: then how do you attract your advertisers in terms of

484
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: the audience.

485
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 5: Interconnected audience is key, right, like first and foremost where

486
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 5: we're here to serve our audience. We call them the

487
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 5: money miners. It's a bit of a you know, a

488
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 5: pun on a book from the eighties about a nikoper.

489
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 5: But like, if the audience is what is valuable when

490
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 5: you create content, I think, like you, what are you

491
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 5: actually selling when you create content? It's trust? So you

492
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 5: should never do anything to jeopardize that trust. You should

493
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 5: cherry shit, nurture it, don't ever do anything that could

494
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 5: could risk it in any way, shape or form. And

495
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 5: that informs the decision on the business model, which was

496
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 5: to make sure that we never have a conflict of

497
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 5: interest with our audience. Because the you know, the legacy

498
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 5: model of creating content in the mining industry was get

499
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 5: paid by a company, promote them to your audience. Your

500
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 5: audience invests in them, then they lose money because it's

501
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 5: a shit company that had to pay for promotion in

502
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 5: the first place.

503
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 4: And then blame you.

504
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 5: We didn't we just you know, thankfully we didn't do that.

505
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 5: And we thought, well, if we if we say what

506
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 5: we really think rather than what we're paid to think,

507
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 5: we'll be able to have an audience it's a hundred

508
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 5: times bigger than anyone else. And by doing that you'll

509
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,239
Speaker 5: have enough scale to build an advertising you know, an

510
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 5: ethical advertising business behind it, but also have optionality to

511
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 5: explore other things in the future as well.

512
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: Can you give me a bit of analysis of say

513
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 2: something audience, something I don't care about, mail firm, topthing

514
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: or age, but what do they work in the minds

515
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: or are there people who are associated with mining or

516
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: are they everywhere work here?

517
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 4: Apparently the boys one of those.

518
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: This is kind of but he'd be an investor, he'd

519
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 2: be a sideline investor.

520
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a really interesting like cross section. We're always like,

521
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 5: you know, I'm flattered whenever we have a guest on.

522
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 5: Ask a guest on who's like a buddy, you know,

523
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 5: a hedge fund manager, right like managing billions of dollars,

524
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 5: And they're like, yeah, a big fan of podcast, So

525
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 5: it's every everyone from from that across the finance banking

526
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 5: broking spectrum and all the way through to like, you know,

527
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 5: the corporate development functions at mining companies. And then because

528
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 5: you've got Maddie, who's you know, bloody represents the blue

529
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 5: collar you know, minor like you even you even get

530
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: like you know the people on site as well, and

531
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 5: it's it's a weirdly wonderful thing to have an audience

532
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 5: that is kind of yeah, hyper targeted to the mining industry,

533
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 5: but crosses a lot of industry, like from from you know,

534
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 5: professional to blook on.

535
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 2: And is it is it just podcasters YouTube?

536
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: What do you do both?

537
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: And and and where do you distribute the audio from

538
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: is it done through Spotify?

539
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: How are you doing that?

540
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 4: It goes from like we use buzz Sprout and that

541
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 4: just spreads it to every Spotify Apple Blood. It's not

542
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 4: a Spotify exclusive or.

543
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: Is it free or is a subscriber It is at.

544
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 4: The moment, So that's.

545
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: Coming.

546
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 4: But that's and that's the thing we're always we're always analyzing, right,

547
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 4: what's our what's our next? As soon as we chucked

548
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: it behind the paywall, hypothetically that sort of caps the

549
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 4: growth because it's not publicly available and it's been going

550
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 4: a year and we're just we're still reaching, you know,

551
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 4: if we start, when we start covering more global themes,

552
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 4: which we are about, you know, commodities, the supply demand

553
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 4: dynamics of any commodit. We're opening ourselves up to more

554
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 4: North American listeners, bloody European listeners. But if we go

555
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 4: beyond the paywall, that's just it's too hard defined.

556
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we don't want to Well, you can do

557
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: a special though, you could do your free every week

558
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: Pate approaches and then you can go and say but

559
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: by the way, if you want to go and see this,

560
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: you know, like the Peter t Peter Tear style, Like

561
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: there's a lot of free stuff, and then you can

562
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 2: pay a little bit extra to get them behind them

563
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 2: behind the scenes, not necessarily behind the scenes and how

564
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: you guys operate, but behind the scenes, like a bit

565
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: more in depth, bit more detail stuff that'll be interesting

566
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: to see how you guys go from.

567
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: So right now, it's an advertising model, yeah, and.

568
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 5: We don't this is another wacky thing. Maddie accidentally turns

569
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 5: out to be an advertising genius because he just like

570
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 5: partinuic away, Like you know podcast advertising, what happens. You know,

571
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 5: you might go to a break cart, Like you go

572
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 5: to a break and you play a pre recorded at ad.

573
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 5: So Maddie's like, what that that sucks? That's like, you know,

574
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 5: I want it to be authentic. I want to give real,

575
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 5: real service to the mining services companies are advertisers industry

576
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 5: adjacent mining service providers that are unlisted. That's and they

577
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 5: come to us because they love the show. And then

578
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 5: Maddie will just add hoc rip and add that ties

579
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 5: into the stuff we're talking about, does it on the

580
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 5: fly and creates like a brand around the types of

581
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 5: companies that you know, to give.

582
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: An example, it gives on a plug now well one.

583
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: So a lot of the stuff is like and half

584
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 4: of the stuff will say is actually false. So one

585
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 4: of our first advertisers was K Drills, so they were

586
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 4: an exploration drilling company. So I've created this legend about

587
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 4: the operations manager that he when there's machinery downtime, he

588
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 4: they fly him from Perth to the camp and he

589
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: starts actually drilling it with his bare hands, because that

590
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 4: is the service they provide. And that's what separates them

591
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: from the industry, and that's why they should be drilling, yeah,

592
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 4: exploration holes. And it's just like this created this fake

593
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 4: narrative of god. One of the other guys I made

594
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 4: up that he was running for the Liberals. So I'm

595
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 4: going to bring in Flip the uranium band and like saying,

596
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 4: all these people are ringing him up, like are you

597
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 4: actually running for Liberal It's like no, that dickhead Bloody's

598
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 4: telling everyone now over on thinks I'm running for parliament.

599
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: But it's fun and like whether it's true or not,

600
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 4: like there is a lot of genuine stuff in there

601
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: in the ads. It people never forget it. So the

602
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: actual service to the companies that are paying is good money.

603
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 4: I'm not taking that without doing the best job I

604
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 4: can to try and get them an ROI on the advertisement.

605
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 4: So we and that is our sole revenue source. So

606
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 4: we take the advertising very seriously because we want them

607
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 4: to make money out of it.

608
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: So someone told me your growth advertising anyways is sort

609
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: of up in the sort of just starting to hit

610
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: seven figures.

611
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: I've been a million dollar territory ball par not quite

612
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: not quite, but that's pretty close a bit of mail

613
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: on it.

614
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 4: No, you're pretty close.

615
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's pretty good in a year, because most

616
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: podcasters make no money.

617
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 4: So yes, that's why most podcasts mad trying to go

618
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 4: full time.

619
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: Pages you guys wage, Yeah.

620
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 4: It does. We're just about to go on wages, and

621
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 4: so we're just been taking divvies to date drawings.

622
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

623
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, so that's all happened pretty quick.

624
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a year. Yeah. And then and do you

625
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: have advertisers lined up?

626
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 4: Yeah? So we got we sort of, so we've got

627
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 4: eight because we dropped from we were doing five shows

628
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 4: a week, which was bloody, and then all come up

629
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: with a wacky idea and like, how about we do

630
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 4: four because jeez, that would be easier. But then so

631
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 4: we dropped off a show, so we've lost lost advertised.

632
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: Because because you need space.

633
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, so now we've got we do two ads per episode.

634
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: But then we're like the theory was which has worked.

635
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: It's like we're keep we're creating more fomo around those

636
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 4: advertisement slots.

637
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: Now, so there's does I mean you can charge more?

638
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, and like companies might be waiting, and then

639
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: obviously the existing ones have a ride first refusal to

640
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 4: keep the spot but if they drop off, we bring

641
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 4: another one in and I guess it's just sort of

642
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 4: kept going like that.

643
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: How much you how much you rely on mining to

644
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: be a strong industry, and particularly in your case services

645
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: mining services as advertisers, How important is it for that

646
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 2: industry to keep growing it in terms of strength?

647
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 5: Probably it probably matters. I'd like to think that we're

648
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 5: relatively like you know, protected through the cycle, but at

649
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 5: the margin it probably matters. I think, like the because

650
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 5: we talked about how it's such a capital intensive industry, right,

651
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 5: if you're a service providing a capital intensive industry, they're

652
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 5: massive checks to get a job, massive fucking checks.

653
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 4: Is it.

654
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like if you if you win a contract right.

655
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 6: Like Cadril for example, we're.

656
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 5: Talking you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars per job.

657
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 5: So like if you can pay a real premium if

658
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 5: to get some degree of r I because you know,

659
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 5: because the difference between you're getting a job and not

660
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 5: getting a job, because you reach the right person at

661
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 5: the companies, because you had a really thoughtful, innovative way

662
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 5: to reach and via our podcast. It actually makes sense

663
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 5: because it's so capital intensive.

664
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: Percent of that you know, you'd happily pay a few

665
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 3: percent of that to ensure you get the contract rather

666
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 3: than miss out on a contract.

667
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: So therefore your model means that you've got to get

668
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: them to the right person.

669
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 4: So your directors as well, they're like, do you want

670
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 4: to hear.

671
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: A marketplace you're connecting indirectly the circleed people that they

672
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: would like to have heard of some cred.

673
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 5: It wouldn't be like, you know, the promise, but I'd say,

674
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 5: it's like it does happen for sure. And you know,

675
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 5: the awesome thing is that we do the stories of

676
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 5: our advertisers and like, okay, they might they because the

677
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 5: right person that read tintels listened to our podcast, they

678
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 5: got a phone call the next day and that job

679
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 5: literally could be millions of dollars for them, right, And

680
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 5: that dynamic, which exists in the mining industry allows us

681
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 5: to charge stupid rates for advertising. But it's like it's

682
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 5: still worthwhile for our advertisers. And because we've got bloody

683
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 5: you know, Maddy's mad ads that actually work. You know,

684
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 5: it just happens to be a really good business model.

685
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: Do you run the risk is a risk that when

686
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: you say sort of kick the shit out of a

687
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: mining company because they interpreted you're kicking this out of them.

688
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 2: Do you run the risks that there's And some dude

689
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: comes along to them and says, I was on these

690
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: guys shows, and and the mining company says, well, stuff you,

691
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: I'm not going to have anything to do with you.

692
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: Do you run that risk or is it or as

693
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: you do or do you do it in such a way.

694
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: They're just sort of always taking the pierce and it

695
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter.

696
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 5: I'd like to think our advertisers they know how much

697
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 5: that it's super important for us to have fierce independence.

698
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 5: We heard secondhand that at one point one of you know,

699
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 5: the companies, or a couple of the companies we've been

700
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 5: critical of, had tried to put pressure on the advertiser

701
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 5: to provoke funding. And what advertiser tell the company in

702
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 5: return fuck off. You know the advertisers, because they're fans

703
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 5: of the show, they know our style, and they think

704
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 5: it's a really important function of the industry, to the

705
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 5: extent that that the historically been willing to tell the

706
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 5: companies who pay the money to fuck off to protect

707
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 5: the independence of what we have, which is a blessing.

708
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: I guess would you see yourselves as a journalists.

709
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean we're running are you running a

710
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: public We don't.

711
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 3: Break news, and I think that's the distinction with like

712
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: a journalist, like maybe more similar to like an investigative

713
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 3: type journalist. So they wouldn't call any of us that.

714
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: But we're not trying to break news.

715
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: But you're publishing, you're sort of publishing the result.

716
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 3: But we're performing, we're performing analysis rather than actually you know,

717
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 3: you know, getting the beat on a story.

718
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: So would you see yourselves more like an investment bank

719
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 2: or annalys analysts they're working for a you know, I.

720
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 3: Don't know, like an independent an independent research house would

721
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 3: probably be the most similar analogy, just that.

722
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: Just the way you're about it, it's more a little

723
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 2: bit more fun attached to it.

724
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 5: It's fun. It's an accessible medium as well. It's an

725
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 5: accessible medium. You get a lot of information that comes

726
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 5: back to you because your audience, who they've done their

727
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 5: own analysis, or they're on a site at some place

728
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 5: and they have some information. You know, you get a

729
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 5: lot a lot of that too because.

730
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: Of a bit of a But also if your style

731
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: wasn't fun, then it could be pretty fucking dry, and

732
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: people are going.

733
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: To and then you're going to hit them up with

734
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: ads as well.

735
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 4: Listener, because when a mining person, so yeah, it goes

736
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 4: on a podcast as soon as that microphone goes on

737
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 4: or they're getting interviewed about something, they chuck their corporate

738
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 4: face on. They're polite as anything. Get them off camera,

739
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 4: totally different people, whereas our things like, right, we want

740
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 4: to be the same on camera as we are in

741
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 4: the street. And that's it, like which makes it obviously relatable.

742
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 4: We're just and it's just like sitting back watching a

743
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 4: few talk shit about mining in the stock market and

744
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 4: it's like the conversation.

745
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: Pointed at them.

746
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 4: Then yeah, yeah, yeah they're bloody, they're the.

747
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 5: Stock market stop on the rocks.

748
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 4: But people have been having these conversations for years, like

749
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 4: you know, I go to the Bloody the Paragon Hotel

750
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 4: and Sydney, all the brokers and all that, like these

751
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 4: are the convoys they've bellion having't but we're now publishing

752
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 4: it every day and they're like, shit, how good is this?

753
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 4: This is what we always talk about. And then it's

754
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 4: obviously another perspective and it's just like this fire that's

755
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 4: kept getting fuel because the longer it's been gone. The

756
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 4: more people have we've met and they're getting touch. A

757
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 4: lot of people feed us information because they're like they

758
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 4: love it.

759
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: They want as in, like you should talk about this,

760
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: no just like just.

761
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 4: Views or like bloody anything could be like we call

762
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 4: it word on the dcline, the rumor's going around, like

763
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 4: whether it's like because might be out on the AX,

764
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 4: but there might be a rumor something's going on.

765
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 6: Just great insight.

766
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: They might have worked at the mind, they might have

767
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 3: met the management team that we're speaking about, just all

768
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. They might have particular insight that

769
00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 3: we won't have getting up to speed on it come

770
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 3: and you know, pretty shortly after the announcement comes out,

771
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: people might.

772
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: Have worked with these people for five years, you know.

773
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: So and the sort of backflow from the industry, from

774
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 3: the people that listen to the show has just been incredible.

775
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 6: It's been awesome.

776
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: Like the amount of people that we sort of knew

777
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 3: of but had never met a year ago and now

778
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 3: have you been fortunate enough to meet and actually like

779
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 3: chat with and sort of call mates and a lot

780
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 3: of circumstances is pretty bloody wicked because I might not.

781
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 4: Believe everything to anyone tells me. So someone sent me

782
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 4: on a bum stey not long ago when there was

783
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 4: a merger going on. They're like, no, it's this company.

784
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's this company, and it was this other one.

785
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 4: I'm like, good one, dickhead.

786
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: How important is the show, the structure of the show,

787
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: to have made his character.

788
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 6: In its vital Yeah?

789
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and because you know there's only one that Michael. Yeah,

790
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,959
Speaker 2: and because I've seen this in other industries. But he's

791
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: the way he speaks, his cadence, his language, and I

792
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: dare say his content is you know, he's probably correct

793
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: or like his knowledgeable.

794
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's a good example.

795
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: That's a good example, right, seventy funny but equally probably

796
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: close to being correct. You know, how important is that

797
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: interns to you guys in terms of when you first

798
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: recognized when you first met him day one?

799
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 4: Did you this? We knew this?

800
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: Well?

801
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 5: We knew him, like because he had a podcast, Yep,

802
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 5: we we knew. It's like you know someone because you've

803
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 5: listened to podcasts all that sort of stuff, and you

804
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 5: one hundred percent you listened to his podcast. You like,

805
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 5: I didn't have to do dd. It was like I

806
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 5: know who you are, because I can tell you're authentic

807
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 5: via the content you've put out in the past. But

808
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 5: it was JD talked about that, you know that when

809
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 5: Maddie was doing these interviews with a Perth fund manager

810
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 5: once a month, and that was the first time he

811
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 5: dabbled in that finance thing. But you could, we could

812
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 5: I could see independently. JD could tell the same thing

813
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 5: if you combine Maddie with the finance now. So it

814
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 5: was like, fuck, where has this been? You know, this

815
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 5: is like such like this is such awesome content, you know,

816
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 5: and I think it's a really unique combination when you

817
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 5: put this like wicked personality, a very relatable person who

818
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 5: has like great insight too, and just bloody you know,

819
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 5: just the ultimate Aussie bogan like mining guy, like you know,

820
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 5: you're the caricature of that, and you combine it with

821
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 5: like all of these like you know, spreadsheet nerds, you

822
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 5: can actually get some like like genuinely magic content from that.

823
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 5: That was my my process when I reached out to him.

824
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 2: I can I can sort of see the visuals too,

825
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 2: like like the juxtaposition of his character with your characters.

826
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: In a visual sense, it's like sort of completely different,

827
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: and you're just sure you're just the way you sit

828
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 2: and the way you sit relative to the way he is.

829
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: He's sort of jumping into the mic you guys.

830
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: Are sitting back from, and there's there's sort of like

831
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: there's a difference between the but there's also a similarity

832
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: between the three of you. There's a difference between the

833
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: three of you, like it's quite contrast. The difference is contrasting,

834
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: and I can imagine I can see why it's popular.

835
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: I know DIMMI out he's only like twenty or something,

836
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: but dim he's listening to it. One of our interns outside.

837
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: He's a last student, but he's like extremely ambitious kid,

838
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: like he probably would be investing, like off the back

839
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: of what you guys are saying, or not investing.

840
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: Selling.

841
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: He might be shorting someone for all I know. But

842
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 2: he's quite a sophisticated young kid.

843
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: For his age in particular.

844
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: I can see that looking to that sort of slapstick too,

845
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: because that would appeal to dimmy or his cohorted people.

846
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: So when you look at your age groups, he's twenty,

847
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: where are you going up to? Do you have any

848
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: sense of this?

849
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 4: Yet?

850
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 5: It's way older than we thought, okay.

851
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 4: Keep forgetting to read the monthly.

852
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 3: That you know, thirty to forty sort of bracket, I

853
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: mean different different animals break out the analytics differently, but

854
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: that thirty to forty bracket, you know, sort of thirty

855
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 3: five is a midpoint, is the you know, the median.

856
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 1: Would you say the investors, Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

857
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 4: There'll be a lot of people that work at the

858
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 4: companies as well as well. When we're talking about they

859
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 4: want to know what's going on with people that are

860
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 4: paying me.

861
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say they're like, you know, job is always

862
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 3: as investing, although they might do that on the side,

863
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 3: you know, but like Mattie says, they might work in

864
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 3: a corporate role at a mining company, at a mining company,

865
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 3: be in the industry in one form or another, or

866
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 3: like you know, like dim you know, there is a

867
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: good portion that twenty to thirty bracket as well.

868
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 5: They might be not many younger than twenty, very younger

869
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 5: than twenty. I'm surprise against sixteen percent older than fifty five.

870
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 5: So the system is older than sixteen percent older them.

871
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 5: And then when what's the dealers and diggers do you

872
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 5: sort of diggs dealers?

873
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: I mean, do you get the chance, do they call

874
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: you Nash to come and do a little special for them, Well,

875
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 2: cal gooley.

876
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 4: Well let's take it through that. So we are we've

877
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 4: learned when we go to conferences to shut up. It's

878
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 4: like this big gathering of bloody of mining people and

879
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 4: finance people. And we've gone there, we've tried to record things,

880
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 4: and then you've got every bastard coming up to you,

881
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 4: especially the small expiration companies. Oh hey, can I come

882
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 4: on tell you about my story. We're like, no, piss

883
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 4: off because they're trying to get a free plug to bloody,

884
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 4: take money off bloody for some chill and copper mine

885
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: or something like that. And anyway, So it might go

886
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 4: all right for the first day, but then there's always

887
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 4: the social gatherings that come with all the conferences, and

888
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 4: I'm a bit susceptible to really getting involved in them.

889
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 4: And then the next day, can't bloody talk properly, got

890
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 4: cold sweats and bloody. Then the content shit and we're

891
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 4: trying to rip ads for these people, and then day

892
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 4: two gets even worse. Day three and it's just like, no,

893
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 4: we're just not doing it anymore.

894
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: So you don't, don't It's Blake.

895
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 4: We're probably will, but we it'd be good to actually

896
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: just go there and enjoy to it because the value

897
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 4: we get is lot going to talking to all these

898
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 4: people and the fund managers, but trying to bloody film

899
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 4: shit while you're there. And then yes, anyway, I'm working

900
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 4: on more maturity.

901
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: It's a fun fund managers as opposed to fund managers.

902
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: But fund managers are they a big part of your content?

903
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, because we think that there's just far better alignment

904
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 5: like a fund manager.

905
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: So neutrality, yeah, yeah, and they've they've.

906
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 5: Okay, so like a mining company MD comes on the podcast,

907
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 5: I'll only ever say good things, and they've probably got

908
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 5: a perverse incentive. It's not aligned with the audience because

909
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 5: they want you know that they might have got some

910
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 5: stock options that they didn't actually have to pay real

911
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 5: money for it, and if they pumping the price up,

912
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 5: happy days for them. But fund manager actually had to

913
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 5: put skin in the game. They've got a thought process.

914
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 5: They put skin in the game. They bought shares in

915
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 5: the company. They're articulating their thesis, and you, as a listener,

916
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 5: get to evaluate the merits of that investment thesis. I'd

917
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 5: love that content before we did this, I'd listened to

918
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 5: so much fund manager content. I loved it, and I

919
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 5: know JD loved it too, So we like that. And

920
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 5: we just think there's better alignment between fund manager views,

921
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 5: you know, even commodity experts and stuff like that than

922
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 5: there is having mds of ship goes on the on

923
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 5: the mic.

924
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 4: Running stock stock brocus. Because you've got like fund managers

925
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 4: are what we call the buy side. Then you've got

926
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 4: the cell side, sell side, or all the people doing

927
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 4: the capital raisings and all that. But like if you

928
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 4: if you get them on the show, they're incentivized to

929
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 4: drive this stock up because they might be selling it

930
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 4: to their clients or like promoting. They might want the

931
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 4: next list on coverage, give it positive coverage, so they

932
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 4: get to clip the ticket for the capital raise, like

933
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 4: that's how they make money. So they're incentivized that way.

934
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 4: Whereas the fund managers, as Trapp said, they're the closest

935
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 4: thing to that matches our show in terms of the independence.

936
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 4: They've put the cock on the block to put the

937
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 4: money into that company for whatever reasons. So that's that's

938
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 4: why we align ourselves with them.

939
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: And do you guys have to disclose with do you

940
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: invest in in mining companies?

941
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 5: Every time anytime we mention a company that we happen

942
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 5: to own shares, you have to say we do it.

943
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 5: We just say ding ding ding. Our audience knows what

944
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 5: that means, ding ding ding, I'm a share.

945
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 4: Because from the bad aspect. So if travel owns something

946
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 4: and he gets he gets on there even and but

947
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 4: even if he does disclose it, but then he's just

948
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 4: harping on about it every day, and like, won't bloody

949
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 4: stop talking about this one thing that he owns, the

950
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 4: audience thinks I don't trust this prick anymore because he's

951
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 4: just pumping up his holding. And our show is ship,

952
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 4: So we're like one we disguised, but like we give

953
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 4: our reasons about why we don't say we think it's

954
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: a buy or anything, but we have to be We

955
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 4: probably go more negative on things.

956
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: That we aren't.

957
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 5: We don't we point out that like the ship parts

958
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 5: of the or the Risks company, because.

959
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 4: We as soon as the audience thinks that we're pumping

960
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 4: up something, we've lost the trust.

961
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 2: Have you show ship that have you at any stage

962
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: of you've seen a stock price fall off the roost

963
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 2: as a result of something you guys might have said.

964
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 4: One, I'll drove on down pretty early, you have, you have?

965
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 4: It was so the one. I don't know if it

966
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 4: was correlated, but everyone bloody, all the forums were freaking

967
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 4: wanted my head. But it was like there's so much

968
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 4: perception around, like a mineral resource estimate saying now, this

969
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 4: is how much bloody golds here. So and one of

970
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 4: the early ones is like, well, this might be how

971
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 4: much golds here, but and this is the grade of it.

972
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 4: But in a practical sense to mind this and this

973
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 4: is and I'd actually worked at that mind previously and

974
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 4: I did a lot of d D on it to

975
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 4: talk to people to make sure I was right. So

976
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 4: in a practical sense, this is what the grade will

977
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 4: be to get it out. This is that there's risks

978
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 4: of the continuity of it at these things, and it's like,

979
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 4: look it's not The share price was still in this

980
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 4: and then I gave my independent view of it and

981
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 4: to go on the other way. Didn't get bloody, I

982
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 4: didn't try and sue me.

983
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: And you guys, do you guys interact much with things

984
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 2: like that? Lea forums like hot Copper not really like

985
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 2: or do they interact with you.

986
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they probably do.

987
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: But like do you just ignore them?

988
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 5: Well, it's a bad way, But we have a really

989
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 5: good audience and I'm sure a lot of our audience

990
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 5: also are on Hot Copper as well. So like it's

991
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 5: just it's a it's an interesting platform. There's some dubious

992
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 5: like engagement.

993
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: On that platform. They don't even disclose their own names,

994
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: do they.

995
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 4: Well, it's all like bloody yeah, like some user names.

996
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 5: There's some stuff that you learn about the industry that

997
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 5: really makes you scratch your head, and like there's a

998
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 5: lot of Hot Copper engagement that's artificial because people have

999
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 5: an incentive for a narratively dominant and that that's a

1000
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 5: crappy part of the industry.

1001
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 4: Some people are paid to go on Hot Copper and

1002
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 4: write about companies.

1003
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 6: Well yeah, it's probably been.

1004
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 2: Match exists, which is one of the reasons why people

1005
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: would want to listen to your podcast, just at least

1006
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 2: to balance it to up at least and a minimum,

1007
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: or they would reject the so called independence of Hot Copper,

1008
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: which I mean.

1009
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 5: We use our real faces, our real names, Like yeah,

1010
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 5: that's as a start, you know, and like to the

1011
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 5: people that listen to the potty and can sense it

1012
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 5: there's some authenticity. Then that that's great because like the

1013
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 5: one of the limitations of hot Copper is, you know,

1014
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 5: the lack of individual accountability to.

1015
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,879
Speaker 1: An identity's no fact check, there's no truth. You can't

1016
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: check the truth in order.

1017
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 4: Usually all the people posting in hot Copper on one

1018
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 4: stock are all shareholders. They wanted to go up. Yeah,

1019
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 4: And that's how we analyze every piece of news or

1020
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 4: that comes out of every media organization. It's not right,

1021
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 4: what is the incentive for this article to be here?

1022
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 4: Who has put that article? Who is incentivized for that

1023
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 4: article to be published, who's maybe given them the information

1024
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 4: to bloody? And so we're always trubs this king of

1025
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 4: the cynical approach. He's bloody. It's like something's fishy here.

1026
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 4: This isn't here just by a bloody accident. And that's

1027
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 4: like it becomes a bit bloody. It's addictive because you're

1028
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 4: like you're like, nah, well there's something dodgy going on here.

1029
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 4: We're going to find out.

1030
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: Just give me a bit of an idea.

1031
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: How you do one of these a day, But obviously

1032
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: the whole day is must be a lot of project planning,

1033
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,479
Speaker 2: so yeah, like a big production meeting every morning.

1034
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 1: Has it work. She's pretty casual.

1035
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 3: So we do a newsletter as well as of last month,

1036
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 3: so get in first thing, we try and shoot the newsletter.

1037
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: Daily yep, daily newsletter.

1038
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 5: Yeah wow, And we get in.

1039
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: We try and shoot that off by eight eight thirty

1040
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 3: ish in Perth obviously, and then get straight in. That's

1041
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: already started the process because we're looking at what news

1042
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: has come out, and then we just you know, pick

1043
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 3: between us a couple of stories, a couple stocks, a

1044
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: couple events that we want to talk about, you know,

1045
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 3: I'd say, on average a couple each, and then we

1046
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 3: just you know, open up a joint word doc and

1047
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 3: start hammering away and we'll probably film by one one

1048
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: pm on average, film for we can talk for quite

1049
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 3: a while, so an hour ish, and then Maddie's the

1050
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: champion of doing the edit.

1051
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: I was going to say, who's the poor bogus to

1052
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 1: the editor.

1053
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, we sort of divvy up.

1054
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 3: Maddie would do the edit and then one would do

1055
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 3: the thumbnail, the other would do the descriptions, the chapters,

1056
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 3: these sorts of things, and.

1057
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: Then more time you push out.

1058
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 4: Usually out by what four o'clock for five o'clock personal

1059
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: and then we've gotten it. She's a well old machine.

1060
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 4: Now trap Trav is the bloody I'll tell you what

1061
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 4: next level in technical friggin design and what he's done

1062
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 4: with this office. Some of it isn't even legal, I

1063
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 4: don't think, but it's like it's all the automation of everything,

1064
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,720
Speaker 4: the cameras and bloody it's it's a pretty streamlined process

1065
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 4: now of how we get it out. So if it

1066
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 4: was and JD would still be friggin setting up tripods

1067
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 4: every day and by getting it out at nine o'clock

1068
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 4: at night.

1069
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 5: It's really interesting for us to walk into studio here

1070
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 5: Mark and see that you know, like a the spa,

1071
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 5: you know, but be the staff as well, and they're

1072
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 5: all wicked, lovely people, have a great conversation, felt comfortable

1073
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 5: walking in. But when we when we combine and it's

1074
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 5: like ship like we all quit our jobs. The opportunity

1075
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 5: cost is to my money. We don't have like a

1076
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 5: huge bloody honeypot to live off. So we love the

1077
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 5: simplicity of just keeping the business small as well and

1078
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 5: not having heaps of overhead. So as much as possible.

1079
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 5: We got on the tools, particularly Maddie would yet it.

1080
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 5: But we just want we just wanted to like minimize

1081
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 5: headcount because with the traditional personal person comes complexity and

1082
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 5: managing people in.

1083
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 4: Cost cost and we've got to play bloody tax soon.

1084
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 4: I can't believe it. Make your money bloody there, but

1085
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 4: Jesus cross, it's ludicrous. But then we're like, if we've

1086
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 4: got a bloody employ people as well and you know

1087
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 4: things might fly, don't wear shoes in the office level

1088
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 4: bloody hr. But it's like as a business, then we

1089
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 4: look at what are the best businesses in the world.

1090
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 4: They run a lane, they watch their costs and so

1091
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 4: much leverage to the upside if we're not stressed about

1092
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 4: paying people. So it'sought right we've got to We've got

1093
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 4: Ali as well. She's the nucleus to the operation. You'd

1094
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 4: say keeps us all together, but she she'll be coming

1095
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 4: on full time. But unless we can bloody employ someone

1096
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 4: that is going to make more money than a cost

1097
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 4: to have them without putting stressing the shit out of us,

1098
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 4: we're just running Alan.

1099
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: We've got to make money. Every every individual's got to

1100
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: be like a little profit center. And who finds you

1101
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: guess who's who's the collective guess.

1102
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 4: I don't know where JD pulls some of these people.

1103
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 4: It's a lot some of them haven't even been born yet,

1104
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 4: I don't think. But made he like globally like he's

1105
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 4: the man number one, two, three, So.

1106
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 5: I'll get the how many bar meis you go to?

1107
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 5: Because's what you mean your guess at the.

1108
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 4: Bar A couple of mine, They've got to really do

1109
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 4: their on my ones because I'll get convinced pretty easily.

1110
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 4: So we're talking to like a uranium expert in New

1111
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 4: York the other week, one another guy in that's in California,

1112
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 4: or people in bloody fund managers in England and like

1113
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 4: just everywhere.

1114
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: And when you see them, Jay, do you sell them

1115
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: the show?

1116
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 3: Well, So, firstly to start with that, come across generally

1117
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 3: they've sort of either done a podcast in the past already,

1118
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 3: and you know, we're all pretty big consumers of podcasts,

1119
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 3: we're all pretty eager on it, or we will have

1120
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 3: heard about them in a research note or anything like that.

1121
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 3: And then yeah, I mean you always go to go

1122
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 3: with the approach assuming they've never heard of us before,

1123
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: why would they have especially if they're overseas people, and

1124
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 3: then yeah, there's a bit of a spiel about what

1125
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 3: we do and you know, particularly why we want them

1126
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 3: to come on. And you generally find kind of like

1127
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 3: us here, people love talking about something they're passionate about,

1128
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 3: about their interests, about what they do all the time.

1129
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: So you know, you get them on and asking them

1130
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: about what they work on. That's it makes for great content.

1131
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 4: Were the king of tin the other day?

1132
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 1: The king of tin?

1133
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:56,720
Speaker 4: The King of Tin was Thompson. Yeah, he's a Pomi

1134
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 4: Falla and just bloody loves tin. So not hard to

1135
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 4: get him on to talk about tin because he's like,

1136
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 4: oh well this will bloody hopefully lift the frigging tin

1137
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:05,800
Speaker 4: equities up for me.

1138
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: What do they use tin for now? Anyway? I mean

1139
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: older solder. Solder a big thing.

1140
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 5: It's the glue that keeps all our electronics.

1141
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 3: So the iPad in there is just essentially a frame

1142
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 3: of solder and then everything's stuck on it.

1143
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 6: But tin is the glue.

1144
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 4: And there's not many pure play tin minds or companies.

1145
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 4: And the one that metals X is the one that

1146
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 4: operates in Tasmania. Oh yeah, you bloody, but that's like,

1147
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 4: that's an example, and it's like, so, once we look

1148
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 4: at tin and this supply demand dynamic globally and where

1149
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 4: you actually what companies are producing this and the risk

1150
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 4: that like Indonesia and Me and Mahi like will not

1151
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 4: be able to supply tin to the world, It's like,

1152
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 4: holy shit, that puts so much pressure upside on this company.

1153
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 4: And that's digging into that whole, the whole vertical integration

1154
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 4: of what this commodity does that drives a big that's

1155
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 4: a that's a story, and we cover it.

1156
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: And when you on that example, and let's say there

1157
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 2: is a tin mine or a company as a tin

1158
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: mine in Tasmania and all of a sudden the demand

1159
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: is not being met by a supply do you call

1160
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 2: the company out?

1161
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 5: Oh, I've called it that company out plenty of times,

1162
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 5: but not necessarily for the supply demand dynamics, but because

1163
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 5: there are parts of that company which, like you look

1164
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 5: at with questioning eyes. For example, the board there is

1165
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 5: controlled by the major shareholder, and the major shareholder has

1166
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 5: interests that aren't perfectly aligned with shareholders because they have

1167
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 5: a commodity trading business and they have an interest in

1168
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 5: the off take. So for me for a company that's

1169
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 5: supposedly got independent directors, but by my assessment, I don't

1170
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 5: call them independent because they were all effectively nominees of

1171
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 5: the one major shareholder they got twenty control. Like, I'll

1172
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 5: call them out. From that perspective, I also called them

1173
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 5: We called them out because they were sitting on a

1174
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 5: pile of cash, two hundred million bucks of cash, and

1175
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 5: they no explanation to shareholders about distributing that, like and

1176
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 5: their growth project kind of you know, a lot of

1177
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 5: question marks about it, and ultimately you know, they've subsequently

1178
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 5: declared a buyback and the stocks had a rerate. But

1179
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 5: I don't think the podcast can take credit for that necessarily,

1180
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 5: But I think it's part of the stuff that adds

1181
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 5: up from that activist perspective, which I love too. If

1182
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 5: you make enough noise about things that maybe aren't perfectly

1183
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 5: aligned with shareholders of the margin the margin, you might

1184
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 5: be able to collectively have a little bit of influence.

1185
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool though, so and maybe JD you describe

1186
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 2: yourselves earlier on but maybe a little bit of activism

1187
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: it sort of sits in the business modal.

1188
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: In your framework.

1189
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, I think that just ties in with

1190
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 3: the core of call and out behavior that we don't know,

1191
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 3: in our opinion might not be totally acceptable.

1192
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: Or you know, just totally is worth investigating.

1193
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you know, unfortunately it pops up pretty frequently

1194
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 3: in the mining industry that there's sort of dubious behavior,

1195
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 3: and you know, no means is that all the time.

1196
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 3: There's some awesome people, great companies and everything, but you know,

1197
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 3: we do use the platform every now and then just

1198
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 3: to sort of question things, to ask people, you know,

1199
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: what's going on here?

1200
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 6: Is it worth looking into?

1201
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 3: But that is you know, after a lot of hours

1202
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 3: of digging into something and trying to answer the questions

1203
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 3: that we've got. And you know, if you've dug into

1204
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 3: something for you know, plenty of hours and you've still

1205
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 3: got a whole bunch of questions, and maybe it's worth

1206
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 3: just throwing one out there and seeing what comes back.

1207
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: And how many how many episod you goes down?

1208
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 2: Now?

1209
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 4: Fifty a week, that's bloody April four a week now.

1210
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: So you as soon as they're bringing you three hundredth

1211
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: I think.

1212
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 2: Is not quite there's not far off ten weeks, another

1213
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 2: fifty in and around there.

1214
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so just over a year now since we started,

1215
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 3: which is pretty pretty cool.

1216
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 4: Just all you do today, Mark, don't go bloody chuck

1217
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 4: of money in some Chile and copper company run first.

1218
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 2: Well, that was about ten ten years ago when I

1219
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 2: just got over excited about a whole lot of stuff.

1220
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: I just it was one of those you know those

1221
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: times when you just you think you've got to invest

1222
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 2: your money instead of leaving in the bank.

1223
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: You think, oh, I'm good investor invest it.

1224
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: And of course as soon as you start to thinking

1225
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: like that, must you must ride it across your for

1226
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 2: and some some blay walks sees you walking down the street.

1227
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: Day he's got he needs to invest his money. I'll

1228
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: be to get onto him.

1229
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what happened. I never met the do

1230
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 2: before in my life. And the next thing, you know,

1231
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 2: somehow he's.

1232
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: In my world. I don't know how the fun he

1233
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: got into my wall. Somehow I was in my world.

1234
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 2: And then that's just coming out of my pocket left

1235
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 2: right center. And the way he got me in was

1236
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: come on, come on our and have a look.

1237
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: And like never been a chilli before. We had been

1238
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: in Santiago before.

1239
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: And I can't remember Las Arena was the area. I

1240
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: had to go to a place called Las Arenda. I

1241
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: flew from San Diego to Las Arena as a.

1242
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: Beach and it's the first time I've ever experienced an earthquake.

1243
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: I was in a hotel.

1244
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: It was right on the beach and there was a

1245
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 2: casino downstairs and there was I was in my room

1246
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: up the top and the fucking earthquake happened.

1247
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: It was just after the tsunami period that was in

1248
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: around Pouquet and Land and I'm in my room.

1249
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: The fucking room starts shaking because a lot of earthquakes

1250
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: over there and the fox. So I thought, this is

1251
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 2: going to be a bloody tsunami for sure, and this

1252
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: hotel is going to get mode over.

1253
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: So I went downstairs. I was trying to find someone, recepricent.

1254
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 2: Find anywhere. It was like two o'clock the morning, three

1255
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 2: o'clock morning. Of course, that's always when you get an earthquake.

1256
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 2: And I saw the casino and I walked into the

1257
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 2: casino and like over the door and it was cigarette

1258
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: smoke and cigar smoke. It was like no.

1259
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: Jay was like thick. I couldn't see any passing. They

1260
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: couldn't give a fuck still gambling. No one fucking moved.

1261
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 4: You're on the You don't get off the.

1262
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 2: Ship in his pants, because then he's going to come

1263
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 2: through the fucking door in his second. I didn't know

1264
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: whether I should stay up up my room because the

1265
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 2: tsunami won't go that high, or should I sort of

1266
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 2: run for the fucking hills, or I really don't know

1267
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: what to do. And I can look looking for some

1268
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: guidance from from the locals and they can give us stuff. Mate,

1269
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 2: they just keep pulling the fucking Pokemontines and Smoker Sigkis.

1270
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: You hadn't been in your element, bloody.

1271
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 4: Oh No, I can't go to seuth America. Too many,

1272
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 4: too dangerous for me.

1273
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:14,439
Speaker 1: I'm never going again.

1274
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 2: Matt, Travis and Joannice, thanks so much for coming in.

1275
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 2: Actually a really cool conversation. It's it's for me seeing

1276
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: three three young blokes, because you guys, from my point

1277
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: of viewre young, taking on and backing yourselves and having

1278
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: a crack. It's pretty cool and doing really well in

1279
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 2: a pretty niche industry, but something that actually a lot

1280
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 2: of people are interested in.

1281
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it and