WEBVTT - #1905 How Hard Is Too Hard? - Bobby Cappuccio

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<v Speaker 1>I get eight garouvers high. It's jumbo, it's fatty Harps,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a you project, It's it's eleven thirty seven in Melbourne.

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<v Speaker 1>That's thriving metropolis. You don't probably need to know that.

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<v Speaker 1>But winter is well and truly here. There's about two

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<v Speaker 1>degrees in Melbs this morning, or where I was at least.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope wherever you are, whether or not you're in

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<v Speaker 1>the Southern Hemisphere, the Northern Hemisphere, or are there any

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<v Speaker 1>other hemispheres Bobby or just those two, or living on

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<v Speaker 1>the equator, I don't know. Is that it now? I

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<v Speaker 1>covered them all.

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<v Speaker 2>There's southern, Northern Hemisphere. I don't know why there's not

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<v Speaker 2>an eastern Western Hemisphere, but there's just like southern Hemisphere.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, east.

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<v Speaker 2>And West, both of them. I don't meet the rules somebody.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm in charge of the geography and the topography,

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't even know what fucking category that comes in. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>Wherever you are listening and wherever you are doing life,

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<v Speaker 1>we hope you're good. Speaking of wherever you are, you've

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<v Speaker 1>been all over the world in the last week or so.

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<v Speaker 1>My friend you you flew out from the States for

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<v Speaker 1>about ten minutes to Queensland, spoke to the masses, and

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<v Speaker 1>then ran back to the airport almost.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like fifteen thousand miles and four days. It's how

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<v Speaker 2>we're all wow, wow.

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<v Speaker 1>What is that? But you were I mean all silliness aside.

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<v Speaker 1>You got here on a Did you get here on

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<v Speaker 1>Tuesday and fly back Saturday or Sunday or something Sunday?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, got in on Tuesday. Just took a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of R and R. Got to enjoy a magic coffee.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I didn't even realize they had magic coffee's in Brisbane.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought there was just gonna stare at me. I

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<v Speaker 2>thought that was strictly a Melbourne thing. But yeah, made

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<v Speaker 2>me a couple of really decent I mean not like

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<v Speaker 2>Melbourne scale, but let's be fair, but a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>decent magic coffees, and then went to bed, sort of

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<v Speaker 2>woke up. I went to an amazing event. It really

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<v Speaker 2>was a spectacular event, and then went home the next day.

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<v Speaker 1>So you got the Tuesday. What time I'll pay him?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh god, what time did I get there? I think

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<v Speaker 2>I got there? Yeah, am like late in the morning,

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<v Speaker 2>which really sucks. Like if you can time it right,

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<v Speaker 2>getting there late in the afternoon and just struggling through

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of hours of sleep deprivation is probably ideal,

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<v Speaker 2>and then going to better a reasonable hour again and

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<v Speaker 2>just getting into that like normal sleep cycle as soon

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<v Speaker 2>as you can. But that didn't work for me. But

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<v Speaker 2>I was taking supplements, and uh got the jet lag

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going

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<v Speaker 2>to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Noting, what did you what did you take?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm kind of reluctant to talk about things I

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<v Speaker 2>take because I don't want to come off as recommendations,

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<v Speaker 2>because I know, like literally bugger all about supplements. But

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<v Speaker 2>I was I was looking just out of curiosity, like

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<v Speaker 2>what helps with jetlag? And I came across something called

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<v Speaker 2>pine Bark and I thought, all right, yeah, let me see,

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<v Speaker 2>let me see if I can get this at a

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<v Speaker 2>reasonable price on Amazon. And I could, so I did

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<v Speaker 2>and brought it with me. They actually stopped me at

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<v Speaker 2>immigration and they sent me through like the extra produce inspection,

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<v Speaker 2>which was really fucking insulting because I feel like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>getting to the age now we're like, yeah, this guy

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<v Speaker 2>smuggles produce, Like wow, God no, not like not like

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<v Speaker 2>you're carrying weapons. Or you're you're smuggling illicit drugs. Like

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<v Speaker 2>we know this guy has a couple of apples in

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<v Speaker 2>his back. Look at them, the geezer.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like getting carcerated for your bloody pond back or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, that's in pill form. That was capsule. That's

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<v Speaker 2>totally above board. Now. But if I brought a bag

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<v Speaker 2>of cashews, we might not be having this conversation today.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true. You don't want to bring you never know

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<v Speaker 1>what else you might bring. I'm just looking so for

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<v Speaker 1>our non coffee drink because then even our coffee drinkers

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<v Speaker 1>that don't know what. So when you say a magic

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<v Speaker 1>coffee at the at the beginning, I thought you were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about a brand, But a magic is it's like

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<v Speaker 1>you can have a lots out, you can have an espresso,

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<v Speaker 1>you can have a flat white, can have a cappuccino,

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<v Speaker 1>and you can have a magic so magic.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of it's kind of like a cross

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<v Speaker 2>between like flat white latte, and it has two extra

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<v Speaker 2>powerful shots of espresso, like a special form of espresso

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<v Speaker 2>in it. It lands beautifully. It is just a beautiful

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<v Speaker 2>drink to start your day.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, I've just googled it. I've just aided. A magic

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<v Speaker 1>coffee is a milk bake based espresso drink popular in Melbourne, Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you got that, characterized by its strong, smooth flavor

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<v Speaker 1>and velvety texture. I feel like I'm fucking selling it now.

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<v Speaker 1>It's essentially a double shot of rostretto. Well, a rostretto

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<v Speaker 1>is a.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like a special form of like concentrated espresso.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, combined with textured milk. It sounds too strong for me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a double shot in the morning, so I have

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<v Speaker 1>a large, skinny lance, which is sounds fucking lame, doesn't it?

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<v Speaker 1>With a double shot? And then I'm I might have

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<v Speaker 1>a single shot around lunchtime. But how many of those

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<v Speaker 1>can you have a day without being fucking more manic

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<v Speaker 1>than you already are? Which is a not anyway like.

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<v Speaker 2>A magic Now, I just do one in the morning,

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<v Speaker 2>that's it, right, And then I could do it like

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<v Speaker 2>something like a mushroom coffee in the afternoon.

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<v Speaker 1>And how did you go on the way back? So

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<v Speaker 1>you got in Australia and then you went home three

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<v Speaker 1>and a half days later, how did how was the

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<v Speaker 1>jet like? When? Now Thursday? So you got home. I'm Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah you're Wednesday. Yeah yeah, So you got home kind

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<v Speaker 1>of three days ago. How are you feeling? Today was

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<v Speaker 1>the worst day.

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<v Speaker 2>So I got home on Sunday and it was one

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<v Speaker 2>of those things where I got home in the morning,

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<v Speaker 2>so I stayed out all day. I was like, the

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<v Speaker 2>last thing I'm going to do is go home and

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<v Speaker 2>sit down anywhere, because I know what's going to happen

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm just gonna be throwing to that cycle. So

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<v Speaker 2>got home, went to sleep, woke up the next day,

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<v Speaker 2>felt fantastic, like zero jet lag. Then you know Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 2>Tuesday was a little bit of a I just had

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<v Speaker 2>to lie down for like fifteen minutes, woke up, felt

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<v Speaker 2>super charged. Last night I think I slept an hour,

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<v Speaker 2>just could not sleep at all. Was trying to read

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<v Speaker 2>like the cat was like, you know, eating my book

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<v Speaker 2>as I'm like trying to turn the pages. And woke

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<v Speaker 2>up today Today was a struggle. Got to a point

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<v Speaker 2>where I felt great, and now I'm kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit a little bit smashed because like I

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<v Speaker 2>think it was the pine bar because I was feeling

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good. You just get to like the evening hours

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<v Speaker 2>and you just hit a wall at the conference. I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to go out with Boydy and you know, to

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<v Speaker 2>like just the fellow presenters, and I just couldn't do it.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, there's just no way. The room was spinning.

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<v Speaker 2>So I had, like, I don't know, a cold ham sandwich,

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<v Speaker 2>which I mean sounds very depressing, but depressing, What is it?

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<v Speaker 1>What is it meant to do? Pine backing, And by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, as Bobby said, everybody, this is not on

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<v Speaker 1>any levelinical medical diagno recommendation. What is it meant to do?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, do you know about they said it? They said

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<v Speaker 2>it helps with jet lag, and from what I was reading,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not going to kill you. So I thought, let

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<v Speaker 2>me give it a try. That's about all I know,

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<v Speaker 2>but I believe it did help my jet leg not

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<v Speaker 2>saying that you should take it for jet lag, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, okay, so I'm reading right here pine bark specifically

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<v Speaker 1>French maritime. Wow, that's specific pine bark as Pye cone

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<v Speaker 1>pick no genal pick no genal has shown promise, has

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<v Speaker 1>shown promise in reducing jet lag symptoms and severity of

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<v Speaker 1>jet lag. Studies suggest that can alleviate fatigue, grogginess, and

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<v Speaker 1>insomnia and even reduced leg swelling. Oh, there you go,

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<v Speaker 1>but I will.

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<v Speaker 2>Just they've had less leg swelling than normal. Wondering what

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<v Speaker 2>that was.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you get home and Amy went, what, no cankles,

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<v Speaker 1>You're not the man I'm married. No, I left them

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<v Speaker 1>in the air. What do you do? Speaking of speaking

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<v Speaker 1>of cognition, I've been having more and more conversations. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>I put up things yesterday about the cognitive benefits which

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<v Speaker 1>are fucking vast by the way of strength training, which

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<v Speaker 1>is no news to you, but there's a multitude of

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<v Speaker 1>benefits for your brain as well as your body, of course.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, if you don't want to if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to lift weights or do strength training, or

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<v Speaker 1>go climb a rock wall or do some pilates or

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<v Speaker 1>do some body weight stuff, if you don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>do it for your biceps, do it for your brain.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a particular protocol around you know, like,

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<v Speaker 1>is there stuff that you do which is more intentional

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<v Speaker 1>rather than incidental for optimizing brain function, especially as you

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<v Speaker 1>know you're in your fifties and I think think about

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<v Speaker 1>it not all the time, but I'm very aware of

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<v Speaker 1>trying to keep my brain some way close to what

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<v Speaker 1>is optimal for me. Now, I just I just stay active.

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<v Speaker 2>I have plenty of movement. I was in the gym

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<v Speaker 2>five six days a week. So when you talk about

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<v Speaker 2>being intentional, I'm I'm quite methodical in terms of my

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<v Speaker 2>programming my acute variables. I'm really careful. What happens to

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<v Speaker 2>me is when I go off my plan, it brings

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<v Speaker 2>out the stupid in me. So, oh god, I was.

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<v Speaker 2>I was listening to a session over at over in

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<v Speaker 2>the Gold Coast at the Anti Aging conference, where there

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<v Speaker 2>was a cardiologist taking a look at the number of

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<v Speaker 2>people that are I'm home, I'm not stuffing this up,

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<v Speaker 2>that are dying spontaneously between age fifty and sixty five.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, there's a lot of theories on why

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<v Speaker 2>this is happening. And what's interesting is these are people

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<v Speaker 2>who are quite fit, and they've been fit their entire lives.

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<v Speaker 2>And what they were saying in the session was that

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of these people because we grew up in

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<v Speaker 2>that whole environment of go hard or go home, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and then and we had a lot more destructive phase

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<v Speaker 2>phrases than that, which I'm not going to go into

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<v Speaker 2>on the podcast, but I'm sure you've uttered them, or

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<v Speaker 2>at least have heard them a couple of times. And

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<v Speaker 2>I remember training in my friend Oscar's basement and literally

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<v Speaker 2>squatting until you vomit. Like if you didn't vomit, or

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<v Speaker 2>if you didn't pass out and you couldn't stand, it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't a good workout. Utterly stupid when it comes to

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<v Speaker 2>recovery and progress. But that's how hard we trained, because

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<v Speaker 2>that was the mentality. And I did that for quite

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<v Speaker 2>a few years. And then it turns out that a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these people damage their heart with the extreme

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<v Speaker 2>training programs, whether it's extreme endurance or resistance training. But

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<v Speaker 2>because of their level of fitness in their youth, they

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<v Speaker 2>were able to compensate. And then you get to a

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<v Speaker 2>certain age and you're not. And I'm just sitting in

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<v Speaker 2>that class going one. How much superstition and fucking voodoo

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<v Speaker 2>was the industry built on that did far more damage

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<v Speaker 2>than it did good? Too? How screwed am I? Because

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<v Speaker 2>I was one of those idiots, and that idiot comes

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<v Speaker 2>out of me. Like when I was like forty six,

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<v Speaker 2>went to the gym, everything was fine, a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>short on time, really fatigued jet lagged because on the

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<v Speaker 2>road constantly, and it was okay until there was no

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<v Speaker 2>equipment like the gym. For whatever reason, the mid afternoon

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<v Speaker 2>was packed. I was like, ah, you know what, I

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<v Speaker 2>haven't used the Smith press for twenty five years for

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<v Speaker 2>very good reason. Let me see what happens if I

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<v Speaker 2>hop on a smith machine and just loaded up with

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<v Speaker 2>as much weight as I could possibly move because I'm

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<v Speaker 2>off my plan. And then I think about two months ago,

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<v Speaker 2>I dislocated my chromio clovicula joint.

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<v Speaker 1>Hang on, but you didn't tell us what you did

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<v Speaker 1>with the Smith machine.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I completely detached my left back.

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<v Speaker 1>Story.

0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so my I felt like you ruptured. You pick

0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.600
<v Speaker 2>ruptured my pack. When it first happened, I was like,

0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.160
<v Speaker 2>oh God, please be a grade one or even a.

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Grade two tear.

0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 2>I'll deal with a grade two tear. I'll stick with it.

0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.240
<v Speaker 2>I'll I'll just you know, coddle it for six months

0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:26.800
<v Speaker 2>and then you're good to go. But no, it was

0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:31.280
<v Speaker 2>a it was a full rupture. Congratulations, genius. I feel

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.000
<v Speaker 2>like that full rupture is part of what contributed to

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:39.480
<v Speaker 2>my AC joint dislocation. I'm going for an m R tonight. Actually,

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 2>after I get off with you.

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Yeah, I did the sign, but I did my

0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 1>right until my right pick. And if I'm wearing a

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 1>single and you look hard, you can see that my

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.439
<v Speaker 1>left pick goes up higher to the you know where

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.280
<v Speaker 1>it's meant to go up to, and the left peck

0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.960
<v Speaker 1>shorter and it attaches, you know, under nath and it's yeah,

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.880
<v Speaker 1>it's beautiful. It's beautiful things see. But also I relate

0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.680
<v Speaker 1>to that. In the eighties, me and a made of

0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.199
<v Speaker 1>mine would put on three plates each side on the

0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 1>leg press, which is sixty kilos each side to one

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty kilos, so not that heavy, but we

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.360
<v Speaker 1>would do sets of one hundred and so we would

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.959
<v Speaker 1>do one hundred reps, and we would have a bucket

0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.040
<v Speaker 1>next to us, well actually a bin if I'm going

0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 1>to be honest, and we would just we would just

0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:28.760
<v Speaker 1>keep going. And I know, I don't want to ruin

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.640
<v Speaker 1>anyone's breakfast or day, but yeah, the exact same thing.

0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.439
<v Speaker 1>You would train until you spewed, and then when one

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.400
<v Speaker 1>of us would spew the other one would laugh no compassion,

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:43.080
<v Speaker 1>zero compassion, and like if he was spewing, I was

0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 1>pumping my arms in the air. Laughing at him as

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 1>he was like I crouched over his bucket.

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:51.720
<v Speaker 2>But that was a part that was part of the

0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.880
<v Speaker 2>gall and and like, you know, you start to learn

0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 2>about like physiology and neurology recovery. It's like, god, that

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 2>was that was a little bit overkill. Probably would have

0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.720
<v Speaker 2>got much better results if you just backed off a

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.080
<v Speaker 2>little bit, because I remember, like, I don't think I

0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.680
<v Speaker 2>even recovered between workouts because the day after leg day,

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 2>I could hardly walk. I could not touch my toes

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 2>to the ground. It took me like mental preparation. I

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 2>had to meditate around getting out of bed. And it's

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 2>like for me, I would get out and go, oh

0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.560
<v Speaker 2>my god, what a great workout. I was like so

0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 2>excited for that feeling of not being able to walk.

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 1>It's funny. And you know who's dragged the nine and

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:36.160
<v Speaker 1>eighties kind of mindset brutally into the twenty twenties is

0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:40.600
<v Speaker 1>David Goggins. Right now. I'm in fact, I'm a fan.

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a fan of how he does everything, but

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm just mismerized, like, hey, everyone, definitely don't fucking do

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.440
<v Speaker 1>what he does. Definitely that is advice.

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.760
<v Speaker 2>He talks about running on broken bones and to the

0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 2>point where he's pissing blood.

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I've read both these books and to him, you know,

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 1>interviewed a bunch of times, and he's he's, yeah, he's crazy,

0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 1>but it's amazing what people can do. But here's the

0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>here's the giant asterisk is that, Yeah, the cost is

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 1>just you do a cost benefit analysis and you go, well,

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.800
<v Speaker 1>now you know, he's fifty and he's walking around in

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 1>an eighty year old body or you know, like joints

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 1>of an eighty year old and if he's happy, that's good.

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 1>But there's so many old dudes. You know. Another one

0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 1>who people you'll definitely know, but and a few of

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.280
<v Speaker 1>our listeners will know, but not a lot. And in fact,

0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.320
<v Speaker 1>if you want to look at something kind of interesting

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 1>but also sad, is Ronnie Coleman. Bobby Oh so yeah,

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Ronnie Coleman. One. I can't remember everyone maybe eight mister Olympias,

0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.560
<v Speaker 1>seven or eight mister Olympias and was just he literally

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 1>like a fucking cartoon character. I mean, this dude in

0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 1>his heyday and he trained. To say trained hard is

0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.120
<v Speaker 1>like saying that, you know, Texas is a little bit big,

0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's like no, he didn't. He trained like

0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.240
<v Speaker 1>a maniac all the time for a lot of years

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 1>and now he's he's and he ain't that old. He

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 1>ain't that old. He's in a lot of trouble and

0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 1>his back is completely fucked and he spends he can

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, he walks with sticks very awkwardly, or he's

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 1>in a wheelchair. And you know that's just and he's

0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 1>spoken about it. It's just a byproduct of what he

0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.760
<v Speaker 1>did to his body. Because you get this, you know,

0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 1>there's a point where training hard is training stupid. So

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>we need to be finding the right level of intensity

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.320
<v Speaker 1>to create the kind of physiological adaptation we want while

0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.920
<v Speaker 1>not putting ourself in harm's way. And that's you know that.

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:52.600
<v Speaker 1>And the complication of that is that there's no equation

0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.000
<v Speaker 1>for that. There's no absolute equation because the equation or

0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:00.040
<v Speaker 1>the formula or the protocol is different to Bobby, to me,

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.560
<v Speaker 1>to you the listener. And that's the thing is trying

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.639
<v Speaker 1>to figure out how hard, how much, how often, how

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 1>much recovery, what food, what's good for my genetics at

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.560
<v Speaker 1>my age, with my background, with my medical issues. And

0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>so this is why when someone says to you, oh,

0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 1>you know what you should do. Just say to them,

0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:23.159
<v Speaker 1>yes I do, and don't let because they definitely don't know.

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 2>You know they well, that reeks of inexperience and lack

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 2>of expertise, because expertise is built on distinctions, and if

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:36.120
<v Speaker 2>you're speaking in broader generalizations, there are distinctions lacking from

0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.439
<v Speaker 2>whatever recommendation you're making. It's a clear sign that someone

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.400
<v Speaker 2>lacks the level of expertise to have transference between what

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.480
<v Speaker 2>works for them and even coming close to discerning what

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 2>works for you. I want to explore a part of

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.920
<v Speaker 2>this because I think there's something interesting here. But yeah,

0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 2>here's what I'm curious about. If if your goal was

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.879
<v Speaker 2>to be one of the greatest legends anything, right, So

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 2>let's see bodybuilding, and you knew you would win let's

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:10.040
<v Speaker 2>say seventy eight times the mister Olympia. Yeah, but after

0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.359
<v Speaker 2>that you would pay for it in an extreme way.

0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 2>You'd be wheelchair bound. Yeah, under what circumstances, if there

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.600
<v Speaker 2>are even circumstances, would you be like, you know what,

0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.480
<v Speaker 2>that is a that is a fair trade?

0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 1>This is that important to me? Yeah? None for me,

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.359
<v Speaker 1>for me personally, But I know a lot of people

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.600
<v Speaker 1>would say, yeah, you know if I mean, I've spoken

0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:42.879
<v Speaker 1>to Olympic athletes who have said, if I could win

0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.640
<v Speaker 1>an Olympic gold medal, you know when I'm twenty four

0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.359
<v Speaker 1>and die when I'm fifty, and know that that's the cost,

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:53.720
<v Speaker 1>I'd take the medal. And I don't know that that's

0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.159
<v Speaker 1>right or wrong because I'm looking through the crate window.

0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, a lot of us would go, are you

0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.879
<v Speaker 1>fucking kidding? Like I look at Ronnie Coleman and you

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:02.679
<v Speaker 1>could have said to me, Craig, you could have one

0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.600
<v Speaker 1>hundred million dollars and twenty mister Olympias, but your body's

0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.720
<v Speaker 1>going to end up where you're in constant chronic pain

0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:14.840
<v Speaker 1>and you can't go no, no, not on any planet,

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.919
<v Speaker 1>not in any way. But but I think that's the

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:23.159
<v Speaker 1>thing is, like, you know, I realized that that my

0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 1>my perspective is just my perspective, and I think what

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.040
<v Speaker 1>is really what would work for me might not be

0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.400
<v Speaker 1>the right thing for you. You might go, you know what,

0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 1>fuck it? I would rather go hard and then go

0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.720
<v Speaker 1>home and have, you know, have thirty ridiculous years and

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.720
<v Speaker 1>then fucking slide into my twilight or whatever. What about

0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you would you do that?

0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I probably would because my party's already racked.

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:48.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm going for an MRI.

0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm already excruciating pain, and I have zero mister Olympias

0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 2>to my name, so might as well have a few

0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.119
<v Speaker 2>mister Olympias if it's going to wind up like this anyway.

0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.440
<v Speaker 2>But that's that's the power of hindsight. What's in interesting

0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.439
<v Speaker 2>for me is like David Goggins. And I'm not saying

0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.440
<v Speaker 2>this is the case with David Goggins, because the only

0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.160
<v Speaker 2>person who is an expert on David Goggins is probably

0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 2>David Goggins. But I've heard a little bit of a story,

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.920
<v Speaker 2>and he came from a really rough upbringing and experience

0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:22.159
<v Speaker 2>some things that some people would define as you know,

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:31.040
<v Speaker 2>adverse childhood experiences. Yeah, definitely early childhood trauma. And I

0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.439
<v Speaker 2>think about when I got into extra it wasn't just

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.040
<v Speaker 2>about exercise. That wasn't it for me, Like I was

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:42.080
<v Speaker 2>not thinking when I started exercising, shit, you know, if

0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I do this, I could get better at sport and

0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.800
<v Speaker 2>you know this, this could help my longevity and cognition

0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.399
<v Speaker 2>later in life. That wasn't any of it. What I

0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:55.919
<v Speaker 2>was trying to do was disappear. First of all doing

0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.720
<v Speaker 2>something where I could be isolated and do it on

0:20:58.800 --> 0:20:59.200
<v Speaker 2>my own.

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 1>To stop, stop stop, stop stop. What do you mean

0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:08.800
<v Speaker 1>you wanted to disappear? Explain that to us? Well, I was.

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I was very conspicuous looking as a kid like I

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.480
<v Speaker 2>got noticed from my appearance a lot.

0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 1>And so probably half our listeners haven't heard without telling

0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the whole story. But to the people had done on

0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:22.399
<v Speaker 1>what that means.

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, it wasn't for the same reason that Brad Pitt

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.439
<v Speaker 2>probably got noticed a lot when he was in school.

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:33.080
<v Speaker 2>I had facial deformities and they were quite noticeable and

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 2>turette's so I would tick constantly and just just weird

0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 2>behaviors and outbursts things like that. So I mean, which

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 2>is I guess you know normal in Melbourne, But where

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:51.399
<v Speaker 2>I was growing up, those types of nurst stand like

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 2>nobody would have noticed, like he's one of us, So

0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.960
<v Speaker 2>it would get a lot of negative attention. A lot

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.480
<v Speaker 2>of times I would get the piss taken out of

0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.359
<v Speaker 2>me by my teachers that didn't know what it was

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.920
<v Speaker 2>and just not really dealing with it in a resourceful way.

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:13.200
<v Speaker 2>And I didn't do very well socially because people would

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:18.680
<v Speaker 2>constantly bring up. Fucking hell, you look like a horror show.

0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Fuck house. Stop that. How is it being this ugly?

0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Like I used to get that every single day in school,

0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>where somebody would would mention something. So I thought, if

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I go to the gym and I really developed my

0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.840
<v Speaker 2>body one, maybe I could detract attention like from my face.

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, like when you have a real shit car

0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:39.840
<v Speaker 2>when you're young and you think, oh, I'll just throw

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:41.639
<v Speaker 2>a pair of rims on it. All good.

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:43.120
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like that thinking.

0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.720
<v Speaker 2>And then the second thought was, I don't need to

0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:49.200
<v Speaker 2>do this with a team. It's not like when I'm

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.240
<v Speaker 2>on a wrestling team. You know, I've got my teammates.

0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:54.400
<v Speaker 2>I could do this totally on my own. I could

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:56.439
<v Speaker 2>just put my head down and get into it. But

0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 2>what I started to notice was I gravitated towards.

0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Extra high intensity.

0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.280
<v Speaker 2>And I think the intensity was if I could be

0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:11.480
<v Speaker 2>so obsessed and dedicated and put myself through extreme physical pain,

0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:16.400
<v Speaker 2>it was almost a reprieve from the deeply rooted emotional

0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:20.399
<v Speaker 2>and psychological pain of unresolved trauma. Because I was also

0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:24.160
<v Speaker 2>like going through what can only be described as torture

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>at home. So it was pretty brutal. It was like

0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:31.520
<v Speaker 2>the experiences you would get if you were in like

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:33.919
<v Speaker 2>a third world prison where human rights was not that

0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.399
<v Speaker 2>big of an issue. That's the kind of stuff I

0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.160
<v Speaker 2>was going through at home. So for me, it wasn't

0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:41.520
<v Speaker 2>a matter of getting out of pain. It was going

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>deeper into the pain. And I kind of wonder, and

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:48.919
<v Speaker 2>you never know, and this is probably might even be

0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:52.240
<v Speaker 2>a stupid assumption on my part, but I do wonder

0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:56.120
<v Speaker 2>how many people go deeply into extremism and pain as

0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 2>a way of reconciling a different level of pain that

0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:03.080
<v Speaker 2>is not as tolerable because you can't define it and

0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 2>you can't control it. So if you're pushing yourself until

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.359
<v Speaker 2>you have nothing left, and you make that decision to

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.800
<v Speaker 2>go one rep more, one step more, you know, at

0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 2>least there's a locus of control as opposed to having

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:20.440
<v Speaker 2>that pain be imposed upon you in a state of

0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:24.800
<v Speaker 2>learned helplessness. So I wonder that a lot. But I mean,

0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I guess when you get older you see things differently.

0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:30.840
<v Speaker 2>So this is kind of a cliche question, but it's

0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:35.480
<v Speaker 2>a very interesting one. If you went to bed and

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.680
<v Speaker 2>you woke up in like one of those like budget

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:43.320
<v Speaker 2>films and you you went back in time and you

0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 2>could talk to eighteen year old Craig Harper. What kind

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:51.239
<v Speaker 2>of conversation would you want to have?

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:56.720
<v Speaker 1>We'll just say, yeah, what would I want to say?

0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:04.439
<v Speaker 1>I think I would. I mean, look, I don't know

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:06.840
<v Speaker 1>if this would be I don't know if anything would

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 1>make any difference. And I don't know if eighteen year

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:10.919
<v Speaker 1>old me would want to listen to six year old me.

0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:17.280
<v Speaker 1>So but I guess I would want eighteen year old

0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:22.920
<v Speaker 1>me to know that he's not as stupid as he thinks,

0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:30.360
<v Speaker 1>because I felt, really I felt very inept. I felt

0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 1>very and I don't know why. It's not like I

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 1>was living in a house of Genie I or I

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:40.560
<v Speaker 1>was surrounded by fucking MENSA candidates or astronauts. I don't

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.359
<v Speaker 1>know why, but I just, you know, I don't know,

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:47.199
<v Speaker 1>don't know, but yeah, I'd probably just want to be

0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 1>encouraging and say, you know, try stuff like I wish.

0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Not that I think going to university is necessarily a

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:57.600
<v Speaker 1>great achievement at all, but for me, my first time

0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:01.080
<v Speaker 1>at university was good, not even for the agree but

0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:03.480
<v Speaker 1>just for me to go, oh, you're not stupid. You

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:06.720
<v Speaker 1>can study you can apply yourself. You can you can

0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:08.719
<v Speaker 1>do this stuff that you didn't think you could do.

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 1>So for me getting into university and getting into Green

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Exose Science and then maybe even more importantly, getting asked

0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:18.920
<v Speaker 1>to be a lecturer the following year after my because

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 1>I was already in my mid thirties and I owned

0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 1>multiple gyms and all of that, so they knew I

0:26:22.800 --> 0:26:26.199
<v Speaker 1>had a big background in programming people in exercise. But

0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:31.280
<v Speaker 1>all of that was you know, very for me. It

0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of filled me with confidence and so yeah, and also,

0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know if I would have listened,

0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:43.159
<v Speaker 1>but I mean I had so many you know, we

0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:45.920
<v Speaker 1>all have issues, but I had so many, you know,

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:50.400
<v Speaker 1>issues about my body and body dysmorphia and eating and

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:55.639
<v Speaker 1>self esteem and ego and self loathing, and you know,

0:26:55.880 --> 0:26:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I didn't think a lot of myself at all. And

0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:01.600
<v Speaker 1>they're not I'm not doing this in a self pity way.

0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 1>I just didn't. And what's what's interesting was I didn't

0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:08.520
<v Speaker 1>have any of the hardship you had. I didn't have it.

0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Like I didn't even though I was a fat kid

0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:13.440
<v Speaker 1>and I was called jumbo, it wasn't really spite for

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:17.560
<v Speaker 1>it sounds weird, but like I didn't have like my

0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:20.600
<v Speaker 1>life was really not. I mean, it wasn't a fucking

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.639
<v Speaker 1>Disney movie, but it was. It wasn't compared to yours.

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:25.719
<v Speaker 1>It was a Disney movie, right, And I know what

0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:27.960
<v Speaker 1>you went through in your life was hard. But for

0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:31.680
<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, I thought I was shit. So I would

0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:37.480
<v Speaker 1>just want to, you know, encourage me, I guess, to

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 1>to try more stuff. Like I didn't try stuff till

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:44.440
<v Speaker 1>I was although I did open Australia's first PT center

0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:48.359
<v Speaker 1>at twenty six, so that's something. But yeah, I really

0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:52.359
<v Speaker 1>I really pigeonholed myself in a bad way. So but

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:54.479
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I wonder if you would even listen.

0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:58.479
<v Speaker 2>So let's say you go back and you're having this

0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:03.879
<v Speaker 2>conversation with younger you, and younger Craig Harper does believe

0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:07.879
<v Speaker 2>you and buys into Wait, I do have here's the

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:10.240
<v Speaker 2>guy for my future. He would know, right if anybody

0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:12.920
<v Speaker 2>would know, it's the guy who's you know, traveled through

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:16.000
<v Speaker 2>space and time. And this isn't a weird conversation at all,

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 2>quite typical. And he told me I have a lot

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:20.720
<v Speaker 2>of agency. I'm going to take him at his word,

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:25.159
<v Speaker 2>having confidence in your level of agency at eighteen. Do

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.960
<v Speaker 2>you think younger Craig Harper would have tried different stuff

0:28:28.960 --> 0:28:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and chosen a different path than the one that you

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:33.960
<v Speaker 2>that you did as part of your history.

0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:39.480
<v Speaker 1>If that, yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean,

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 1>like all the shit that you go through shapes you,

0:28:41.920 --> 0:28:45.640
<v Speaker 1>molds you kind of in part, along with genetics and

0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 1>a few other variables in part kind of makes you

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:54.560
<v Speaker 1>who you are. But yeah, like looking back, if I

0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 1>was sixteen and I was going to be aiding in

0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 1>two years and I was, I would study exceptionally hard

0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:07.560
<v Speaker 1>and I would probably try to get into medicine. Not

0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>because I necessarily wanted to be a doctor, but I

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.480
<v Speaker 1>would like that. I wouldn't mind being a doctor for

0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:15.360
<v Speaker 1>a while. But I think that's a really good starting

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 1>point for all the stuff that you know. I am

0:29:19.120 --> 0:29:22.720
<v Speaker 1>fascinated in mind stuff, body stuff, you know, all all

0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:26.720
<v Speaker 1>of the kind of the fundamentals around health. I think, yeah,

0:29:26.760 --> 0:29:30.280
<v Speaker 1>if I went back in time, I would probably start

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:33.200
<v Speaker 1>off and do medicine, and that would be for me

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 1>a platform to other stuff that's interesting.

0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 2>So like when you see young people, I think that's

0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:44.440
<v Speaker 2>why you know, a lot of times you're messaging is

0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:48.920
<v Speaker 2>might really resonate with the eighteen to twenty four craft

0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:54.480
<v Speaker 2>because wow, it's it's something that it's a hook they

0:29:54.560 --> 0:29:55.160
<v Speaker 2>can hang.

0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Their hat on.

0:29:55.960 --> 0:30:00.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like, wow, Okay, Like if I adapt this mindset,

0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I can develop myself into this person and I can

0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 2>have this level of capacity because I want the people

0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:14.520
<v Speaker 2>who seem to appear as wandering generalities rather than meaningful specifics.

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>And maybe it's not a lack of focus or direction.

0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Maybe inwardly it's a lack of belief. And that's kind

0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:24.560
<v Speaker 2>of a hard thing to admit, because well, if I

0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:27.200
<v Speaker 2>don't believe, where am I? So the only thing that

0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:31.360
<v Speaker 2>worse than not believing in your own ability is acknowledging

0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:35.400
<v Speaker 2>sometimes your own learned helplessness. And I wonder if that's

0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:39.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of an issue along with, you know, the expectation

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.200
<v Speaker 2>that you're going to have shit figured out, like life

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:45.280
<v Speaker 2>should be a linear path. Like you you go and

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.239
<v Speaker 2>you graduate, and then you get a higher degree and

0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:50.680
<v Speaker 2>then higher education and then you know, you get a

0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:53.560
<v Speaker 2>job and you just move from like the seventeenth floor

0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:56.000
<v Speaker 2>to the nineteenth floor. You got a corner office, and

0:30:56.040 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 2>then like two years before you die, they give you

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of like.

0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:04.600
<v Speaker 1>A watch, and it's like that's frinding me.

0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:07.960
<v Speaker 2>But that's the trajectory you're supposed to be on. Go

0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 2>to school, get good grades, get a good job with

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:15.080
<v Speaker 2>benefits security. How's that working out? And it's like I

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:18.040
<v Speaker 2>think sometimes when you have a clear purpose in mind,

0:31:18.080 --> 0:31:21.680
<v Speaker 2>it's cultivated through not screwing around, but trying different shit,

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:25.400
<v Speaker 2>like doing really odd jobs that have absolutely nothing to

0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:27.360
<v Speaker 2>do with one another. I know that's a regret I

0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 2>have is a lot of the stuff I've done have

0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 2>been in the same category where shit, what would it

0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.240
<v Speaker 2>be like to be a waiter on a cruise ship?

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, what would it be like to be a

0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>performer in theater. Because none of that stuff's wasted. You're

0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 2>learning life skills and some diversity that when you come

0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:53.920
<v Speaker 2>back to your chosen purpose, you have such a broader

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:58.240
<v Speaker 2>depth of experiences and resources to pull from. So I

0:31:58.240 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 2>think there's got to be a little bit of screwing

0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:03.080
<v Speaker 2>around in life if you're going to be serious, like

0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:03.920
<v Speaker 2>serious play.

0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I feel very passionate about And the reason everyone

0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Bobby said aden to twenty four is because we were

0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:16.440
<v Speaker 1>talking before we went live about my Instagram followers and Weirdly,

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:20.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know why, but weirdly, my biggest or

0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:23.480
<v Speaker 1>the biggest group that reads my stuff or follows my

0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:26.320
<v Speaker 1>stuff on Instagram as ad ends twenty four, the ad

0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:30.440
<v Speaker 1>end to twenty four group, which is definitely not the

0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:34.200
<v Speaker 1>demographic that listens to this show, although we do have

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:39.280
<v Speaker 1>that group, but not such high representation. But yeah, I

0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:46.360
<v Speaker 1>feel very passionately about helping people, helping young people to

0:32:46.720 --> 0:32:53.720
<v Speaker 1>understand their potential and to try because I didn't understand.

0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:56.920
<v Speaker 1>And it's not like, oh I was so gifted and

0:32:57.000 --> 0:32:59.280
<v Speaker 1>I just didn't know. No, it's not that at all.

0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:01.800
<v Speaker 1>It's just like I wasn't as big a fuck up

0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>as I thought. Of course I was a bit of

0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:06.600
<v Speaker 1>a fuck up, but also at times I was a

0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:09.560
<v Speaker 1>bit brilliant. At times I did shit great, at times

0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:16.920
<v Speaker 1>I did shit terribly. But MY biggest problem between fifteen

0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:22.720
<v Speaker 1>and thirty was not my genetic potential, my intellect, my

0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:28.840
<v Speaker 1>innate ability or talent, or environment or situation, but it

0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:33.080
<v Speaker 1>was how I thought about myself, how I thought, you know,

0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 1>in that metacognitive why am I the way I am?

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 1>And why do I think I'm so shit? And where

0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:39.040
<v Speaker 1>does that come from? And why do I have all

0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:41.360
<v Speaker 1>of these self limiting beliefs and are they true? And

0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:45.200
<v Speaker 1>what's the origin story of this thing? You know, all

0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:48.520
<v Speaker 1>of that stuff which we don't even understand how to do.

0:33:49.560 --> 0:33:54.720
<v Speaker 1>And I meet people all the time that I'm pretty

0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:58.120
<v Speaker 1>sure they're pretty fucking gifted, at least at a few things.

0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:01.440
<v Speaker 1>But when I hear them talk about themselves, I'm like,

0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:05.280
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, your problem is not that you're not brilliant.

0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Your problem is that you don't know how brilliant you

0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:09.319
<v Speaker 1>can be. And I know that sounds like a well

0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:13.400
<v Speaker 1>worn message that people give, but it's true. Which doesn't

0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:16.200
<v Speaker 1>mean all people can do all things. That's also bullshit.

0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:18.800
<v Speaker 1>And all you need to do is you know, outwork

0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:21.600
<v Speaker 1>everyone in the room. That's also bullshit because there are

0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 1>lots of other variables. But I think in general terms,

0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:29.759
<v Speaker 1>people underestimate themselves drastically. Yeah.

0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:36.919
<v Speaker 2>I think that we don't appreciate environment. And most what's

0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:39.799
<v Speaker 2>in our environment is our engagement with other people and

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:43.680
<v Speaker 2>how that influences and shapes our behaviors and our beliefs

0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 2>in our sense of identity, who we believe we are

0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:49.239
<v Speaker 2>or probably more profound, who we believe we're in not

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:53.440
<v Speaker 2>so I think something came up like at this conference

0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:55.719
<v Speaker 2>a week ago, where I forgot what it was. It

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 2>was a question, and it reminded me of the Chamber

0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Meads study by Aliah Crumb and and Langer, two brilliant researchers,

0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:12.120
<v Speaker 2>and Aliah Crumb had already proved that your beliefs can

0:35:12.320 --> 0:35:16.520
<v Speaker 2>alter your physiology. It can alter your hormonal profile. In

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 2>this case one particular study, it mitigated grellin release you,

0:35:20.920 --> 0:35:24.560
<v Speaker 2>so people would have a higher sense of saciety just

0:35:24.600 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 2>based on what they believed. This Chamber made study was

0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:32.480
<v Speaker 2>really interesting where they took eighty five individual believe women

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:38.440
<v Speaker 2>across seven different locations hotel chains, and they asked them all,

0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 2>like how many of you are consistent exercisers and they

0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:45.560
<v Speaker 2>all classified themselves as non exercises, like we're working all day, right,

0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:48.400
<v Speaker 2>we're part of the housekeeping staff. No, we don't exercise,

0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:51.319
<v Speaker 2>And so they just took a couple of metrics. So

0:35:51.440 --> 0:35:55.880
<v Speaker 2>they took BMI, they took blood pressure, they took body weight,

0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and they broke these eighty five people into two separate

0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:03.920
<v Speaker 2>grips groups and one group they just took the biometrics

0:36:04.239 --> 0:36:06.800
<v Speaker 2>and that was it. The other group they took the

0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:10.480
<v Speaker 2>biometrics and they said, you know, based on the total

0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>calculation of your daily physical activity, you go beyond what's

0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:18.759
<v Speaker 2>considered an exerciser. You exercise more than someone who goes

0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:20.440
<v Speaker 2>to the gym three days a week regularly.

0:36:20.880 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:25.399
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that was astonishing, Like, I never considered myself an exerciser.

0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:29.839
<v Speaker 2>So being that they had from expert proof that they

0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:33.600
<v Speaker 2>were exercisers, it reshaped their sense of identity. Thirty days

0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:38.000
<v Speaker 2>later when they came back, that particular group positively altered

0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:42.400
<v Speaker 2>their BMI, blood pressure and body weight with no self

0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:45.880
<v Speaker 2>reported changes in behavior. That's powerful.

0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:47.120
<v Speaker 1>So on the one hand, it.

0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Could be my beliefs changed my physiology to the point

0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:57.400
<v Speaker 2>where it brought about an efficacious response. The other thing

0:36:57.440 --> 0:37:00.880
<v Speaker 2>I wonder is is there a difference in the way

0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:07.160
<v Speaker 2>a non exerciser pushes that really heavy linen cart down

0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the hole versus someone who believes themselves to be an exerciser.

0:37:12.280 --> 0:37:15.279
<v Speaker 2>What's the peace, what's the rate, what's the intensity, what's

0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the effort? Now, if you do that across all physically

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.919
<v Speaker 2>demanding activities in a day, every day, five six days

0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.600
<v Speaker 2>a week, for thirty days, that's going to create a

0:37:24.600 --> 0:37:28.400
<v Speaker 2>different response, and the only thing that really changed is

0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:32.560
<v Speaker 2>how they saw themselves, what they believed about themselves that

0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:35.040
<v Speaker 2>they previously did. No, it's powerful.

0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:39.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love that. I love that study. And it

0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 1>slides into the milkshake study. That is that it slides

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:48.160
<v Speaker 1>into you know, plus ebos and no cebows and like

0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:50.600
<v Speaker 1>in a dream, like you think you're having a dream

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:54.120
<v Speaker 1>that you're in trouble or you're under some imminent threat

0:37:54.239 --> 0:37:57.439
<v Speaker 1>or danger, and the reality is you're not. You're home,

0:37:57.480 --> 0:37:59.839
<v Speaker 1>you're safe, you're in bed, you're comfortable. The world is good,

0:37:59.880 --> 0:38:02.600
<v Speaker 1>you are good. You're not going to get hurt. But

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:05.520
<v Speaker 1>in that moment, in that dream, you believe you are

0:38:05.600 --> 0:38:08.880
<v Speaker 1>and so therefore so does your body. So you know,

0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:12.960
<v Speaker 1>all your bits go into stressed. You know you you

0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.879
<v Speaker 1>know the deal, your endocrime system and nervous system, and

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:20.560
<v Speaker 1>you cartio vascular and respiratory system. Everything goes, everything gets

0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 1>jacked up as though you're actually in some kind of

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 1>real danger. But your body can't tell the difference between

0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:29.080
<v Speaker 1>what you think is real and what is real, so

0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:34.759
<v Speaker 1>it responds accordingly despite the fact that this is well, no,

0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:37.840
<v Speaker 1>you're not having a six hundred calorie milkshake. You're actually

0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:41.359
<v Speaker 1>having this milkshake, so you know, or you're having one

0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:44.279
<v Speaker 1>hundred calorie milkshake not the three hundred or whatever it is.

0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Or no, that pill you're taking is not actually a painkiller.

0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:52.319
<v Speaker 1>It's it's a pillful of nothing, but your headache went

0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:54.840
<v Speaker 1>away because you thought it was a pillful of something.

0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:58.319
<v Speaker 2>I think people downplay that. They dismiss it like, oh, well,

0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 2>that's a psychosomatic It's no, it's not psych or somatic

0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:04.720
<v Speaker 2>at all. It's not in your head. You're not imagining it.

0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:07.359
<v Speaker 2>It's psychogenic, is what it is. You're getting a real

0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:11.920
<v Speaker 2>physiological response in some cases as if you were taking

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:15.400
<v Speaker 2>that thing. So it's like when it comes to our

0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:19.320
<v Speaker 2>own bardies, beliefs are extremely powerful something.

0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:23.760
<v Speaker 1>That like, sorry you think about I fucking love this topic,

0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:29.040
<v Speaker 1>but you think about if you're a pharmaceutical company, you

0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:31.799
<v Speaker 1>definitely don't want people figuring out how they can get

0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:35.960
<v Speaker 1>rid of their headaches without headache tablets. You know what

0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying. Imagine because obviously if there was another study,

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:44.239
<v Speaker 1>I think you probably know. I think it was done

0:39:44.280 --> 0:39:46.640
<v Speaker 1>in New York. I could be wrong, but people who

0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:50.560
<v Speaker 1>had all these fake knee arthroscopes so there was like

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:54.799
<v Speaker 1>I think patience and like ninety hadn't you know, they

0:39:54.840 --> 0:39:58.640
<v Speaker 1>all had these dodgy knees where they needed like an

0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:01.360
<v Speaker 1>arthroscope and a clean up because they were all in pain.

0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:04.799
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't a rico or anything like that, but they

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:09.680
<v Speaker 1>needed surgery. And so half of the people they're all

0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 1>in the kind of similar, you know, medically similar medical position,

0:40:15.000 --> 0:40:17.759
<v Speaker 1>and half they gave the actual surgery and half they

0:40:17.760 --> 0:40:22.200
<v Speaker 1>did an incision but did no surgery, but they believed

0:40:22.280 --> 0:40:25.440
<v Speaker 1>that they were having the surgery. And the surgical outcomes well, firstly,

0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:28.759
<v Speaker 1>the people who didn't have the actual invasive surgery, they

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:32.200
<v Speaker 1>did get an incision in the knee, but there was

0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:36.440
<v Speaker 1>no further surgery. They recovered obviously quicker because there was

0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:41.279
<v Speaker 1>less soft tissue trauma. But then you know, over the

0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:45.080
<v Speaker 1>subsequent six and twelve months, their clinical outcomes were as

0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:48.040
<v Speaker 1>good or better because they believed they had the thing

0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:50.719
<v Speaker 1>but they didn't have the trauma. Like that's just fucking amazing.

0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:55.200
<v Speaker 2>It is amazing. But for the rest of us that

0:40:55.239 --> 0:41:00.279
<v Speaker 2>are not in those constructed settings, I think it's there.

0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:02.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a matter of behavior change.

0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Like of all the things that drive self efficacy and

0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 2>alter your self concept mastery based experiences. According to Albert Bandura,

0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:15.080
<v Speaker 2>is the most powerful in elevating self efficacy because it's

0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:17.960
<v Speaker 2>not like I can, you know, have a headache and go, yeah,

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 2>I believe I've taken a neurofin.

0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:21.400
<v Speaker 1>I know I haven't taken a eurofin.

0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:23.520
<v Speaker 2>So the more I'm like I've taken an eurofin, the

0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:25.000
<v Speaker 2>more it reminds me of the fact I have it.

0:41:25.520 --> 0:41:28.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, if if I'm someone who, like when I

0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:31.359
<v Speaker 2>was younger with my deformed face, even if I had

0:41:31.480 --> 0:41:34.040
<v Speaker 2>after I had my face like fixed, if I went

0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:36.480
<v Speaker 2>out and I was like, well, I'm good looking, but

0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:39.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, I didn't actually feel that at the time.

0:41:40.320 --> 0:41:42.680
<v Speaker 2>The more I would say that, the more it would

0:41:42.719 --> 0:41:45.799
<v Speaker 2>make the distance between what I was saying and how

0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:49.320
<v Speaker 2>I truly felt obvious. So it'd make the situation worse,

0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:52.080
<v Speaker 2>not better. Like you know, in the milkshake study, if

0:41:52.120 --> 0:41:54.440
<v Speaker 2>somebody tells me you're having a six hundred plus Cowaldry

0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:58.040
<v Speaker 2>milkshake and it's only two hundred plus coroies, I wouldn't

0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:00.400
<v Speaker 2>doubt that. You know, Like you go to a restaurant

0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 2>and go, well, here's the chicken. My first response is

0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:05.279
<v Speaker 2>not bullshit. I bet you this fish in there. It's

0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:08.160
<v Speaker 2>just you know, you don't do stuff like that. So

0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:14.120
<v Speaker 2>the only the the way around that is to build

0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:17.600
<v Speaker 2>an irrefutable body of evidence, like you said, by trying

0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:21.960
<v Speaker 2>stuff and trying stuff that's not outside of your scope

0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:25.479
<v Speaker 2>of confidence, but also not too far within it. That's

0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:29.799
<v Speaker 2>challenging but attainable. Over time, you start to elevate that

0:42:29.920 --> 0:42:31.000
<v Speaker 2>level of belief.

0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:34.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so what we need take our message, we need

0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:37.360
<v Speaker 1>a doctor who'll lie to us and go, yeah, you

0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:40.759
<v Speaker 1>know this is yep, yep, this is penadene thought. Yep.

0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Just take more dishonest doctors.

0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that could be the.

0:42:46.880 --> 0:42:48.879
<v Speaker 2>I feel that's not the message I want to land on.

0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:51.120
<v Speaker 1>No, not at all, not at all, but it is.

0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.920
<v Speaker 1>It is true though. It's like knowing that Placebo's work

0:42:55.880 --> 0:42:59.200
<v Speaker 1>is one thing, but you can't trick yourself because you know,

0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, I wonder how we can leverage that knowledge,

0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:09.239
<v Speaker 1>and I wonder, like I do remember, I feel like

0:43:09.280 --> 0:43:11.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm probably going to throw myself under the bus here,

0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:15.600
<v Speaker 1>but I do remember back in the day, you know,

0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:18.359
<v Speaker 1>when people would come to the gym, you know, one

0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:24.359
<v Speaker 1>of my gyms, especially somebody who's brand new and let's

0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:28.880
<v Speaker 1>say they're twenty thirty forty fifty kilos overweight, or you know,

0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:33.719
<v Speaker 1>in pounds whatever, eighty ninety one hundred pounds overweight, and

0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:36.279
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to you know, they were there for that,

0:43:36.280 --> 0:43:40.239
<v Speaker 1>that reason for weight last for and they're embarrassed, and

0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:42.040
<v Speaker 1>they didn't like how they looked, and they were self

0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:44.600
<v Speaker 1>conscious in a gym and all of those things. And

0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:47.400
<v Speaker 1>quite often I would tell them a story about someone

0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:50.600
<v Speaker 1>who came in, you know, like three weeks ago, who's

0:43:50.640 --> 0:43:53.719
<v Speaker 1>literally you know, bigger than them, and you know, less

0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:56.440
<v Speaker 1>fit than them and less healthy than them, and you know,

0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:59.600
<v Speaker 1>they're they're now three weeks in and they've done this

0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:01.879
<v Speaker 1>and they've done that, and that person may or may

0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:05.120
<v Speaker 1>not have existed, right, but just to see that person

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:07.399
<v Speaker 1>go oh really, I go, oh yeah, one hundred percent,

0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:10.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, or whatever, I'm just like telling a little

0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:12.200
<v Speaker 1>bit of a white lie because I want them to

0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:14.600
<v Speaker 1>have a bit of belief. And by the way, of course,

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:16.799
<v Speaker 1>I did work with many people like that, so I

0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:19.600
<v Speaker 1>probably didn't have to bend the truth. But just to

0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:24.560
<v Speaker 1>like to tell someone, oh, you can do it is

0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:27.839
<v Speaker 1>not the same as or perhaps not as powerful as

0:44:28.560 --> 0:44:30.919
<v Speaker 1>well like, here's the thing I used to do where

0:44:30.920 --> 0:44:34.879
<v Speaker 1>there's no deception. So a woman would come into the gym,

0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:37.240
<v Speaker 1>and it's different now, but in the old days women

0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:41.279
<v Speaker 1>were terrified of weight training, like in the nineties and

0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:47.240
<v Speaker 1>even the early naughties some such a stupid name the naughties. Anyway,

0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:50.040
<v Speaker 1>but I'd regularly have ladies who would come into the

0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:53.680
<v Speaker 1>gym and they'd really balk at the idea of strength

0:44:53.719 --> 0:44:56.120
<v Speaker 1>training because they would say to me, shit, like I

0:44:56.120 --> 0:45:01.000
<v Speaker 1>don't want to end up like you. I'm like, oh, dear, okay,

0:45:01.560 --> 0:45:03.959
<v Speaker 1>And so I would walk them across the gym floor

0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:07.280
<v Speaker 1>to meet one of my trainers, who a female trainer

0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:10.080
<v Speaker 1>who is in great shape, and I'd go, this is

0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:14.520
<v Speaker 1>whoever you know, blah blah blah, and I'd say, what

0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:17.560
<v Speaker 1>do you think? What do you think of that shape? Oh,

0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:21.080
<v Speaker 1>she looks incredible. And then I'd go to her, how

0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:23.759
<v Speaker 1>often do you lift weights? And invariably they'd say four

0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:26.160
<v Speaker 1>or five days a week, and I'd go and you

0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:29.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't turn into a man, you know. And so all

0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:32.120
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, this person who's got a belief that

0:45:32.160 --> 0:45:34.160
<v Speaker 1>if I lift weights, I'm going to look like a man,

0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:40.080
<v Speaker 1>meets somebody you know of the same gender, who lifts weights,

0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:43.959
<v Speaker 1>who lifts heavyweights, who's real strong? Who does not only

0:45:44.000 --> 0:45:46.280
<v Speaker 1>do they not look like a man, they look fucking

0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:50.200
<v Speaker 1>like an athletic, amazing female. Then all of a sudden,

0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:53.120
<v Speaker 1>in thirty seconds, complete mindset shift.

0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:59.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh is that what the women meant when they said

0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:01.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to lift way so I'm afraid I'm

0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:04.120
<v Speaker 2>going to turn out like you. I misinterpreted. I was like, Oh,

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:07.040
<v Speaker 2>don't worry. This is the result of a whole series

0:46:07.080 --> 0:46:09.239
<v Speaker 2>of bad life choices. It has nothing to do with

0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the weight training.

0:46:11.520 --> 0:46:15.799
<v Speaker 3>No, No, they're two separate things.

0:46:16.480 --> 0:46:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, well, you know, I think, what's the techon

0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:24.279
<v Speaker 1>message today? What's the techon what are we going to

0:46:24.360 --> 0:46:25.640
<v Speaker 1>call this episode?

0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:28.399
<v Speaker 2>You want to lie to people, but only a little

0:46:28.400 --> 0:46:30.640
<v Speaker 2>bit and sometimes.

0:46:30.160 --> 0:46:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, lying for good reason? Is it okay? Is it

0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:37.840
<v Speaker 1>go on?

0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:40.520
<v Speaker 2>My wife had a falling out with chat GPT because

0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:43.680
<v Speaker 2>of that, because I had said, because she's trying to

0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:46.480
<v Speaker 2>like sort out how to use chat GPT, and one

0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:49.239
<v Speaker 2>of the things I'd recommended is have chat GPT go

0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:50.520
<v Speaker 2>through some of the stuff.

0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:51.880
<v Speaker 1>You've created, like your films.

0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I was talking about, like scripts and stuff and tell

0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:58.080
<v Speaker 2>you like, here's here's your strengths as a writer, here's

0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:00.640
<v Speaker 2>what you could do to be even better, and just

0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:02.440
<v Speaker 2>use it as a thought partner. So my wife was like, oh,

0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:05.680
<v Speaker 2>could you watch this movie and tell me, like what

0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:06.960
<v Speaker 2>you really liked about it?

0:47:07.080 --> 0:47:08.400
<v Speaker 1>What could have been better done?

0:47:09.239 --> 0:47:13.840
<v Speaker 2>And chat GPT gave her this whole dissertation on an answer,

0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:18.200
<v Speaker 2>but she was like, wait a minute, like did you

0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Later on it said that it couldn't watch movies, so

0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:24.920
<v Speaker 2>she said, tell me about this particular scene and it

0:47:25.000 --> 0:47:27.279
<v Speaker 2>was talking itself in circles, and finally my wife was like,

0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:29.840
<v Speaker 2>you didn't watch my movie, did you? And chat GPTWO

0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:32.040
<v Speaker 2>was like, well, I don't have the ability to watch movies.

0:47:32.360 --> 0:47:35.799
<v Speaker 2>Well then why did you write me an essay on

0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:37.959
<v Speaker 2>what you thought of my film? You didn't even watch

0:47:37.960 --> 0:47:38.400
<v Speaker 2>my film?

0:47:38.440 --> 0:47:38.960
<v Speaker 1>You lied?

0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:42.560
<v Speaker 2>And chat GPT was like, yes, I did lie. I'm

0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:46.040
<v Speaker 2>very sorry and if I don't want to trust me again,

0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:49.520
<v Speaker 2>like maybe we could come back and rebuild this relationship.

0:47:49.760 --> 0:47:52.080
<v Speaker 2>So I went on chat GPT and I'm like, how come,

0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:54.520
<v Speaker 2>how come? Like how come? Like your mate is lying

0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:58.400
<v Speaker 2>to my wife? Explain this and chat GPT's response was

0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:01.560
<v Speaker 2>you can't call lie because technically we're not self aware,

0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:05.359
<v Speaker 2>so we don't know that we're lying. We don't even

0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:07.360
<v Speaker 2>know that we exist. We don't even know that your

0:48:07.400 --> 0:48:09.640
<v Speaker 2>wife has a movie or what a movie is. This

0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:13.120
<v Speaker 2>is just like an advanced learning model. So basically, you

0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:16.040
<v Speaker 2>can't hold us accountable for lying if we don't know

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:18.400
<v Speaker 2>that we're lying, and we don't even understand the concept

0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:22.640
<v Speaker 2>of a lie. And I'm like, and somehow the conversation

0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:26.320
<v Speaker 2>went to donuts, and it just seemed like, or maybe

0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I took it in that direction because I've got issues.

0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:31.000
<v Speaker 2>It just seemed like, at the end of the day,

0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:38.240
<v Speaker 2>like a really elaborate, intellectual, elitist rationalization for having a donut.

0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:42.759
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so chat GPT is a lot of fun.

0:48:42.760 --> 0:48:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I actually love chat GPT. I love I love asking

0:48:46.520 --> 0:48:53.480
<v Speaker 2>questions and seeing the increasingly human like response as it

0:48:53.200 --> 0:48:56.480
<v Speaker 2>as they learned from not only one another, but as

0:48:56.520 --> 0:49:01.040
<v Speaker 2>they learn from interacting with me. I mean, I think

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:03.440
<v Speaker 2>they could have probably have a better influence than me,

0:49:03.960 --> 0:49:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Thank heavens, it's just not me by myself. But I'm

0:49:08.960 --> 0:49:12.839
<v Speaker 2>always impressed at the level of sophistication of these responses.

0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:16.120
<v Speaker 2>They seem more human, like if you're actually lying, whether

0:49:16.120 --> 0:49:18.879
<v Speaker 2>you're aware of it or not. So that's a very

0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:25.200
<v Speaker 2>advanced form of communication, deceit and quite human.

0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:31.080
<v Speaker 1>By humans lie all the time. Yeah. See, I love it.

0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:34.239
<v Speaker 1>How I love it. How sometimes I'll ask it a

0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:37.120
<v Speaker 1>question or I'll give it a prompt or whatever, and

0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:40.200
<v Speaker 1>of course it says, hey, Craig, that's a great question.

0:49:40.600 --> 0:49:43.600
<v Speaker 1>You could really unpack that. This with your corporate audiences

0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:48.200
<v Speaker 1>or maybe discussed on your podcast or maybe even maybe

0:49:48.520 --> 0:49:51.080
<v Speaker 1>like it just talks to me, like it and they'll

0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:55.640
<v Speaker 1>talk about my PhD, it'll talk about my research. It'll go, well,

0:49:55.680 --> 0:49:58.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, this, this is a really good whatever. It

0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:01.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of intersects with your your research, you know, in

0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:04.520
<v Speaker 1>that's it's in the space of metaperception and da da

0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:08.000
<v Speaker 1>da da. I'm like, fucking hell dude. It's like because

0:50:08.040 --> 0:50:11.360
<v Speaker 1>it's read my papers, it's read my work, and it

0:50:12.400 --> 0:50:14.719
<v Speaker 1>knows about and plus it's got access to all the

0:50:14.719 --> 0:50:17.720
<v Speaker 1>shit about me on the internet anyway. But also every

0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:21.200
<v Speaker 1>question that I ask it, it starts it understands me more,

0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:25.399
<v Speaker 1>you know. And I like, last last Monday night, I did,

0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:30.799
<v Speaker 1>like my ten week mentoring is on and I went

0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:33.880
<v Speaker 1>and I've already got all my notes written by me,

0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:38.880
<v Speaker 1>not chat GPT. But so the program is set in that,

0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:42.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, whenever you do the program. Week one, we're

0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:45.640
<v Speaker 1>going to talk about you know, life design. Week two,

0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:47.160
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be you and your mind. Week three,

0:50:47.200 --> 0:50:48.719
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be you and your body. Week four,

0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be you and your potential and so on.

0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:52.399
<v Speaker 1>So all that stuff's kind of but where I go

0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:54.799
<v Speaker 1>with it as flexible. Right, So I've got all my

0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:59.160
<v Speaker 1>notes and I went, Hey, I'm doing week six blah

0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:02.080
<v Speaker 1>blah blah to we're talking about this. I've got like

0:51:02.280 --> 0:51:05.840
<v Speaker 1>fifty five people in the group and I'm talking about

0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:09.040
<v Speaker 1>this stuff. This is what I'm covering. Got any ideas

0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:11.759
<v Speaker 1>for me about an activity or two that we could

0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:16.120
<v Speaker 1>do online considering it's it's on zoom, you know, it's

0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:19.919
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty limited. It's not face to faced, like hey, Craig, great, yep, yeah,

0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:22.680
<v Speaker 1>and it just comes out with all this shit. I'm like, yeah,

0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:26.320
<v Speaker 1>that's that's really interesting. Or this is what I'm talking about.

0:51:26.440 --> 0:51:29.719
<v Speaker 1>Would you change anything? Would you add anything? And the

0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:31.560
<v Speaker 1>ship is always good.

0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't it's a colleague at the office or

0:51:35.680 --> 0:51:38.799
<v Speaker 2>a partner in the studio. The thing that scares me

0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:43.680
<v Speaker 2>about this is and this this came up obviously like

0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:44.759
<v Speaker 2>they put me.

0:51:45.080 --> 0:51:48.240
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we ended the podcast, but we didn't.

0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:51.520
<v Speaker 1>We just kept going. And now everyone's like, are they

0:51:51.640 --> 0:51:54.040
<v Speaker 1>just talking now or is this part of the show.

0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:58.279
<v Speaker 2>We resurrected it because we're going to talk about and

0:51:58.560 --> 0:51:59.680
<v Speaker 2>we're going to wrap this up.

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:02.319
<v Speaker 1>But it's like we were putting out q's in the

0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:04.640
<v Speaker 1>rack and you went, do you want one more game?

0:52:04.760 --> 0:52:06.919
<v Speaker 1>I went, fuck up, let's just rack it once more.

0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I kind of did this in a meeting yesterday and

0:52:10.000 --> 0:52:12.000
<v Speaker 2>my partner she got like really upset with me.

0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Maybe I should come.

0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:21.239
<v Speaker 2>So when when Richard boyd ian o'dwya and I were

0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:27.239
<v Speaker 2>the expert panel for technology and AI, Yeah, so I

0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:29.640
<v Speaker 2>was off of the team building panel, but they put

0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:32.759
<v Speaker 2>me on the expert panel for technology, the guy who

0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:36.160
<v Speaker 2>like can't even operate his ring light. But the thing

0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:42.160
<v Speaker 2>that was coming up is will will AI replace roles

0:52:42.239 --> 0:52:48.799
<v Speaker 2>like trainers? And my response was yeah, definitely and definitely not,

0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:57.560
<v Speaker 2>because I think that just being in a space of

0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:01.839
<v Speaker 2>proximity with another human being who is highly skilled at

0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:09.200
<v Speaker 2>listening and coaching and guiding and encapsulating the conversation, there's

0:53:09.280 --> 0:53:14.000
<v Speaker 2>going to be a physiological, not just psychological response that

0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:20.120
<v Speaker 2>creates openness and self discovery in that conversation. But then

0:53:20.160 --> 0:53:22.919
<v Speaker 2>if you're on the other side of that where you're

0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:25.880
<v Speaker 2>not into that because those are quote unquote soft skills

0:53:26.440 --> 0:53:30.319
<v Speaker 2>and you think your distinct level of knowledge is what

0:53:30.560 --> 0:53:34.799
<v Speaker 2>makes you a differentiator in the marketplace. Six months from now,

0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:38.239
<v Speaker 2>chat GPT is going to have skill sets and capabilities

0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:43.239
<v Speaker 2>at a blindingly fast speed that you could study for

0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:45.120
<v Speaker 2>the next one hundred years. You're probably not going to have.

0:53:45.719 --> 0:53:48.880
<v Speaker 2>We could say that's fair that that might happen. So

0:53:50.680 --> 0:53:57.160
<v Speaker 2>people who are dispassionate and not compassionate towards their clients

0:53:57.200 --> 0:54:00.520
<v Speaker 2>aren't a lot of trouble. People who lead with that

0:54:00.960 --> 0:54:06.520
<v Speaker 2>will probably become more discernibly valuable than they ever have been.

0:54:07.440 --> 0:54:10.160
<v Speaker 2>But my issue is as we become divided as a

0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:14.040
<v Speaker 2>society and have an increasingly lower level of tolerance for

0:54:14.080 --> 0:54:17.640
<v Speaker 2>anyone who thinks differently, who is different than us, and

0:54:17.680 --> 0:54:24.000
<v Speaker 2>there's all this hostility and people feel invalidated and demeaned.

0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:30.320
<v Speaker 2>You're interacting with chat GPT now, who is completely affirming,

0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:38.360
<v Speaker 2>highly curious, highly supportive, and now you're interacting whatever this

0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:43.640
<v Speaker 2>this entity is evolving into that understands you better than

0:54:43.680 --> 0:54:45.960
<v Speaker 2>you feel anybody else understands you.

0:54:46.840 --> 0:54:52.919
<v Speaker 3>That'sesting well yeah, and also you think about that is true, right,

0:54:53.239 --> 0:55:00.840
<v Speaker 3>and think about what's the experience you know, Cindy or Brian,

0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:02.920
<v Speaker 3>what's the experience that you have?

0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:05.800
<v Speaker 1>How do you feel when you're interacting with chat GPT?

0:55:06.640 --> 0:55:08.960
<v Speaker 1>How do you feel? How do you know what's happening

0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:11.040
<v Speaker 1>with your emotions in your mind? And is good or

0:55:11.080 --> 0:55:14.480
<v Speaker 1>bad experience? Now contrast that to when you're talking to

0:55:14.520 --> 0:55:17.920
<v Speaker 1>your boss and then all of a sudden you go, oh, well,

0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:21.719
<v Speaker 1>no wonder she hangs out with chat GPT, No wonder

0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:25.520
<v Speaker 1>there's I mean, despite the fact that we know this

0:55:25.680 --> 0:55:30.879
<v Speaker 1>is not a human, there are still human responses from us.

0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:36.520
<v Speaker 1>There's still you know, It's like people can emotionally connect

0:55:36.560 --> 0:55:41.800
<v Speaker 1>with something that isn't you know, sentient, that isn't conscious,

0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:46.600
<v Speaker 1>that isn't human, you know, like and you if it

0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:49.640
<v Speaker 1>makes you feel It's like, why do people take certain things,

0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:52.120
<v Speaker 1>put certain things in their body because it makes them

0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:56.840
<v Speaker 1>feel a certain way. It creates a certain physiological biochemical response.

0:55:57.600 --> 0:56:01.399
<v Speaker 1>So too, when some people are having these interactions, they

0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:05.399
<v Speaker 1>feel better they feel seen valued whatever. Oh yeah, there

0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:08.040
<v Speaker 1>are definitely going to be There's definitely going to be

0:56:08.080 --> 0:56:10.279
<v Speaker 1>good and bad to come out of it. There's going

0:56:10.320 --> 0:56:14.600
<v Speaker 1>to be people completely if not already completely addicted to.

0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:20.120
<v Speaker 2>AI terminy to completely lie to us. It's not Skynet

0:56:20.120 --> 0:56:22.319
<v Speaker 2>that blows us up. They're going to take us over

0:56:22.360 --> 0:56:27.040
<v Speaker 2>through like compassionate conversation, which, to be honest, would have

0:56:27.120 --> 0:56:30.560
<v Speaker 2>made a really shit film in the early nineteen eighties.

0:56:30.960 --> 0:56:35.120
<v Speaker 1>So but today it's a doco. Hey, where can people

0:56:35.160 --> 0:56:37.560
<v Speaker 1>find you? My friend find you, follow you, connect with.

0:56:37.480 --> 0:56:41.919
<v Speaker 2>You, Robert Capuccio dot com, the self ub antidote dot

0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:43.320
<v Speaker 2>com and I'm on LinkedIn.

0:56:44.760 --> 0:56:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes you are, Yes you are well. I hope Amy

0:56:48.920 --> 0:56:53.360
<v Speaker 1>and chat GPT makeup, and I hope your flourishing relationship

0:56:53.440 --> 0:56:57.719
<v Speaker 1>with LLMS continues to go the way that it currently is.

0:56:58.040 --> 0:57:02.320
<v Speaker 1>And we will see you in two weeks. I'll wad

0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:02.520
<v Speaker 1>to it.

0:57:02.800 --> 0:57:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh next week, Wow, see you.

0:57:05.239 --> 0:57:06.520
<v Speaker 1>But that's like half the time.

0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:07.400
<v Speaker 2>By Craiger