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Speaker 1: I get eight garouvers high. It's jumbo, it's fatty Harps,

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Speaker 1: it's a you project, It's it's eleven thirty seven in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: That's thriving metropolis. You don't probably need to know that.

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Speaker 1: But winter is well and truly here. There's about two

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Speaker 1: degrees in Melbs this morning, or where I was at least.

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Speaker 1: I hope wherever you are, whether or not you're in

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Speaker 1: the Southern Hemisphere, the Northern Hemisphere, or are there any

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Speaker 1: other hemispheres Bobby or just those two, or living on

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Speaker 1: the equator, I don't know. Is that it now? I

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Speaker 1: covered them all.

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Speaker 2: There's southern, Northern Hemisphere. I don't know why there's not

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Speaker 2: an eastern Western Hemisphere, but there's just like southern Hemisphere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, east.

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Speaker 2: And West, both of them. I don't meet the rules somebody.

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Speaker 1: And I'm in charge of the geography and the topography,

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Speaker 1: and I don't even know what fucking category that comes in. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Wherever you are listening and wherever you are doing life,

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Speaker 1: we hope you're good. Speaking of wherever you are, you've

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Speaker 1: been all over the world in the last week or so.

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Speaker 1: My friend you you flew out from the States for

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Speaker 1: about ten minutes to Queensland, spoke to the masses, and

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Speaker 1: then ran back to the airport almost.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like fifteen thousand miles and four days. It's how

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Speaker 2: we're all wow, wow.

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Speaker 1: What is that? But you were I mean all silliness aside.

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Speaker 1: You got here on a Did you get here on

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Speaker 1: Tuesday and fly back Saturday or Sunday or something Sunday?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, got in on Tuesday. Just took a little bit

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Speaker 2: of R and R. Got to enjoy a magic coffee.

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Speaker 2: Like I didn't even realize they had magic coffee's in Brisbane.

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Speaker 2: I thought there was just gonna stare at me. I

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Speaker 2: thought that was strictly a Melbourne thing. But yeah, made

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Speaker 2: me a couple of really decent I mean not like

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Speaker 2: Melbourne scale, but let's be fair, but a couple of

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Speaker 2: decent magic coffees, and then went to bed, sort of

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Speaker 2: woke up. I went to an amazing event. It really

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Speaker 2: was a spectacular event, and then went home the next day.

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Speaker 1: So you got the Tuesday. What time I'll pay him?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, what time did I get there? I think

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Speaker 2: I got there? Yeah, am like late in the morning,

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Speaker 2: which really sucks. Like if you can time it right,

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Speaker 2: getting there late in the afternoon and just struggling through

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Speaker 2: a couple of hours of sleep deprivation is probably ideal,

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Speaker 2: and then going to better a reasonable hour again and

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Speaker 2: just getting into that like normal sleep cycle as soon

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Speaker 2: as you can. But that didn't work for me. But

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Speaker 2: I was taking supplements, and uh got the jet lag

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Speaker 2: wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going

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Speaker 2: to be.

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Speaker 1: Noting, what did you what did you take?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm kind of reluctant to talk about things I

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Speaker 2: take because I don't want to come off as recommendations,

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Speaker 2: because I know, like literally bugger all about supplements. But

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Speaker 2: I was I was looking just out of curiosity, like

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Speaker 2: what helps with jetlag? And I came across something called

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Speaker 2: pine Bark and I thought, all right, yeah, let me see,

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Speaker 2: let me see if I can get this at a

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Speaker 2: reasonable price on Amazon. And I could, so I did

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Speaker 2: and brought it with me. They actually stopped me at

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Speaker 2: immigration and they sent me through like the extra produce inspection,

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Speaker 2: which was really fucking insulting because I feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: getting to the age now we're like, yeah, this guy

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Speaker 2: smuggles produce, Like wow, God no, not like not like

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Speaker 2: you're carrying weapons. Or you're you're smuggling illicit drugs. Like

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Speaker 2: we know this guy has a couple of apples in

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Speaker 2: his back. Look at them, the geezer.

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Speaker 1: It's like getting carcerated for your bloody pond back or

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Speaker 1: whatever it was.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, that's in pill form. That was capsule. That's

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Speaker 2: totally above board. Now. But if I brought a bag

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Speaker 2: of cashews, we might not be having this conversation today.

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Speaker 1: That's true. You don't want to bring you never know

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Speaker 1: what else you might bring. I'm just looking so for

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Speaker 1: our non coffee drink because then even our coffee drinkers

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Speaker 1: that don't know what. So when you say a magic

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Speaker 1: coffee at the at the beginning, I thought you were

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Speaker 1: talking about a brand, But a magic is it's like

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Speaker 1: you can have a lots out, you can have an espresso,

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Speaker 1: you can have a flat white, can have a cappuccino,

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Speaker 1: and you can have a magic so magic.

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Speaker 2: So it's kind of it's kind of like a cross

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Speaker 2: between like flat white latte, and it has two extra

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Speaker 2: powerful shots of espresso, like a special form of espresso

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Speaker 2: in it. It lands beautifully. It is just a beautiful

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Speaker 2: drink to start your day.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I've just googled it. I've just aided. A magic

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Speaker 1: coffee is a milk bake based espresso drink popular in Melbourne, Australia.

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Speaker 1: Well you got that, characterized by its strong, smooth flavor

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Speaker 1: and velvety texture. I feel like I'm fucking selling it now.

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Speaker 1: It's essentially a double shot of rostretto. Well, a rostretto

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Speaker 1: is a.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a special form of like concentrated espresso.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, combined with textured milk. It sounds too strong for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm a double shot in the morning, so I have

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Speaker 1: a large, skinny lance, which is sounds fucking lame, doesn't it?

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Speaker 1: With a double shot? And then I'm I might have

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Speaker 1: a single shot around lunchtime. But how many of those

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Speaker 1: can you have a day without being fucking more manic

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Speaker 1: than you already are? Which is a not anyway like.

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Speaker 2: A magic Now, I just do one in the morning,

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Speaker 2: that's it, right, And then I could do it like

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Speaker 2: something like a mushroom coffee in the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: And how did you go on the way back? So

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Speaker 1: you got in Australia and then you went home three

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Speaker 1: and a half days later, how did how was the

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Speaker 1: jet like? When? Now Thursday? So you got home. I'm Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you're Wednesday. Yeah yeah, So you got home kind

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Speaker 1: of three days ago. How are you feeling? Today was

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Speaker 1: the worst day.

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Speaker 2: So I got home on Sunday and it was one

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Speaker 2: of those things where I got home in the morning,

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Speaker 2: so I stayed out all day. I was like, the

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Speaker 2: last thing I'm going to do is go home and

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Speaker 2: sit down anywhere, because I know what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: and I'm just gonna be throwing to that cycle. So

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Speaker 2: got home, went to sleep, woke up the next day,

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Speaker 2: felt fantastic, like zero jet lag. Then you know Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: Tuesday was a little bit of a I just had

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Speaker 2: to lie down for like fifteen minutes, woke up, felt

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Speaker 2: super charged. Last night I think I slept an hour,

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Speaker 2: just could not sleep at all. Was trying to read

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Speaker 2: like the cat was like, you know, eating my book

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Speaker 2: as I'm like trying to turn the pages. And woke

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Speaker 2: up today Today was a struggle. Got to a point

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Speaker 2: where I felt great, and now I'm kind of like

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Speaker 2: a little bit a little bit smashed because like I

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Speaker 2: think it was the pine bar because I was feeling

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Speaker 2: pretty good. You just get to like the evening hours

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Speaker 2: and you just hit a wall at the conference. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to go out with Boydy and you know, to

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Speaker 2: like just the fellow presenters, and I just couldn't do it.

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Speaker 2: I was like, there's just no way. The room was spinning.

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Speaker 2: So I had, like, I don't know, a cold ham sandwich,

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Speaker 2: which I mean sounds very depressing, but depressing, What is it?

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Speaker 1: What is it meant to do? Pine backing, And by

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Speaker 1: the way, as Bobby said, everybody, this is not on

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Speaker 1: any levelinical medical diagno recommendation. What is it meant to do?

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Speaker 2: Like, do you know about they said it? They said

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Speaker 2: it helps with jet lag, and from what I was reading,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to kill you. So I thought, let

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Speaker 2: me give it a try. That's about all I know,

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Speaker 2: but I believe it did help my jet leg not

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Speaker 2: saying that you should take it for jet lag, but.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, okay, so I'm reading right here pine bark specifically

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Speaker 1: French maritime. Wow, that's specific pine bark as Pye cone

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Speaker 1: pick no genal pick no genal has shown promise, has

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Speaker 1: shown promise in reducing jet lag symptoms and severity of

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Speaker 1: jet lag. Studies suggest that can alleviate fatigue, grogginess, and

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Speaker 1: insomnia and even reduced leg swelling. Oh, there you go,

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Speaker 1: but I will.

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Speaker 2: Just they've had less leg swelling than normal. Wondering what

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Speaker 2: that was.

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Speaker 1: Did you get home and Amy went, what, no cankles,

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Speaker 1: You're not the man I'm married. No, I left them

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Speaker 1: in the air. What do you do? Speaking of speaking

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Speaker 1: of cognition, I've been having more and more conversations. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I put up things yesterday about the cognitive benefits which

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Speaker 1: are fucking vast by the way of strength training, which

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Speaker 1: is no news to you, but there's a multitude of

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Speaker 1: benefits for your brain as well as your body, of course.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if you don't want to if you

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Speaker 1: don't want to lift weights or do strength training, or

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Speaker 1: go climb a rock wall or do some pilates or

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Speaker 1: do some body weight stuff, if you don't want to

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Speaker 1: do it for your biceps, do it for your brain.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a particular protocol around you know, like,

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Speaker 1: is there stuff that you do which is more intentional

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Speaker 1: rather than incidental for optimizing brain function, especially as you

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Speaker 1: know you're in your fifties and I think think about

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Speaker 1: it not all the time, but I'm very aware of

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Speaker 1: trying to keep my brain some way close to what

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Speaker 1: is optimal for me. Now, I just I just stay active.

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Speaker 2: I have plenty of movement. I was in the gym

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Speaker 2: five six days a week. So when you talk about

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Speaker 2: being intentional, I'm I'm quite methodical in terms of my

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Speaker 2: programming my acute variables. I'm really careful. What happens to

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Speaker 2: me is when I go off my plan, it brings

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Speaker 2: out the stupid in me. So, oh god, I was.

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Speaker 2: I was listening to a session over at over in

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Speaker 2: the Gold Coast at the Anti Aging conference, where there

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Speaker 2: was a cardiologist taking a look at the number of

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Speaker 2: people that are I'm home, I'm not stuffing this up,

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Speaker 2: that are dying spontaneously between age fifty and sixty five.

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Speaker 2: And you know, there's a lot of theories on why

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Speaker 2: this is happening. And what's interesting is these are people

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Speaker 2: who are quite fit, and they've been fit their entire lives.

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Speaker 2: And what they were saying in the session was that

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Speaker 2: a lot of these people because we grew up in

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Speaker 2: that whole environment of go hard or go home, you know,

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Speaker 2: and then and we had a lot more destructive phase

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Speaker 2: phrases than that, which I'm not going to go into

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Speaker 2: on the podcast, but I'm sure you've uttered them, or

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Speaker 2: at least have heard them a couple of times. And

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Speaker 2: I remember training in my friend Oscar's basement and literally

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Speaker 2: squatting until you vomit. Like if you didn't vomit, or

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Speaker 2: if you didn't pass out and you couldn't stand, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't a good workout. Utterly stupid when it comes to

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Speaker 2: recovery and progress. But that's how hard we trained, because

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Speaker 2: that was the mentality. And I did that for quite

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Speaker 2: a few years. And then it turns out that a

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Speaker 2: lot of these people damage their heart with the extreme

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Speaker 2: training programs, whether it's extreme endurance or resistance training. But

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Speaker 2: because of their level of fitness in their youth, they

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Speaker 2: were able to compensate. And then you get to a

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Speaker 2: certain age and you're not. And I'm just sitting in

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Speaker 2: that class going one. How much superstition and fucking voodoo

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Speaker 2: was the industry built on that did far more damage

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Speaker 2: than it did good? Too? How screwed am I? Because

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Speaker 2: I was one of those idiots, and that idiot comes

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Speaker 2: out of me. Like when I was like forty six,

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Speaker 2: went to the gym, everything was fine, a little bit

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Speaker 2: short on time, really fatigued jet lagged because on the

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Speaker 2: road constantly, and it was okay until there was no

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Speaker 2: equipment like the gym. For whatever reason, the mid afternoon

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Speaker 2: was packed. I was like, ah, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: haven't used the Smith press for twenty five years for

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Speaker 2: very good reason. Let me see what happens if I

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Speaker 2: hop on a smith machine and just loaded up with

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Speaker 2: as much weight as I could possibly move because I'm

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Speaker 2: off my plan. And then I think about two months ago,

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Speaker 2: I dislocated my chromio clovicula joint.

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Speaker 1: Hang on, but you didn't tell us what you did

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Speaker 1: with the Smith machine.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I completely detached my left back.

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Speaker 1: Story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my I felt like you ruptured. You pick

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Speaker 2: ruptured my pack. When it first happened, I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh God, please be a grade one or even a.

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Speaker 1: Grade two tear.

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Speaker 2: I'll deal with a grade two tear. I'll stick with it.

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Speaker 2: I'll I'll just you know, coddle it for six months

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Speaker 2: and then you're good to go. But no, it was

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Speaker 2: a it was a full rupture. Congratulations, genius. I feel

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Speaker 2: like that full rupture is part of what contributed to

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Speaker 2: my AC joint dislocation. I'm going for an m R tonight. Actually,

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Speaker 2: after I get off with you.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I did the sign, but I did my

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Speaker 1: right until my right pick. And if I'm wearing a

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Speaker 1: single and you look hard, you can see that my

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Speaker 1: left pick goes up higher to the you know where

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Speaker 1: it's meant to go up to, and the left peck

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Speaker 1: shorter and it attaches, you know, under nath and it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's beautiful. It's beautiful things see. But also I relate

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Speaker 1: to that. In the eighties, me and a made of

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Speaker 1: mine would put on three plates each side on the

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Speaker 1: leg press, which is sixty kilos each side to one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty kilos, so not that heavy, but we

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Speaker 1: would do sets of one hundred and so we would

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Speaker 1: do one hundred reps, and we would have a bucket

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Speaker 1: next to us, well actually a bin if I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be honest, and we would just we would just

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Speaker 1: keep going. And I know, I don't want to ruin

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Speaker 1: anyone's breakfast or day, but yeah, the exact same thing.

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Speaker 1: You would train until you spewed, and then when one

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Speaker 1: of us would spew the other one would laugh no compassion,

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Speaker 1: zero compassion, and like if he was spewing, I was

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Speaker 1: pumping my arms in the air. Laughing at him as

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Speaker 1: he was like I crouched over his bucket.

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Speaker 2: But that was a part that was part of the

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Speaker 2: gall and and like, you know, you start to learn

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Speaker 2: about like physiology and neurology recovery. It's like, god, that

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Speaker 2: was that was a little bit overkill. Probably would have

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Speaker 2: got much better results if you just backed off a

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Speaker 2: little bit, because I remember, like, I don't think I

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Speaker 2: even recovered between workouts because the day after leg day,

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Speaker 2: I could hardly walk. I could not touch my toes

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Speaker 2: to the ground. It took me like mental preparation. I

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Speaker 2: had to meditate around getting out of bed. And it's

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Speaker 2: like for me, I would get out and go, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, what a great workout. I was like so

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Speaker 2: excited for that feeling of not being able to walk.

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Speaker 1: It's funny. And you know who's dragged the nine and

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Speaker 1: eighties kind of mindset brutally into the twenty twenties is

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Speaker 1: David Goggins. Right now. I'm in fact, I'm a fan.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of how he does everything, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just mismerized, like, hey, everyone, definitely don't fucking do

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Speaker 1: what he does. Definitely that is advice.

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Speaker 2: He talks about running on broken bones and to the

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Speaker 2: point where he's pissing blood.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I've read both these books and to him, you know,

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Speaker 1: interviewed a bunch of times, and he's he's, yeah, he's crazy,

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Speaker 1: but it's amazing what people can do. But here's the

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Speaker 1: here's the giant asterisk is that, Yeah, the cost is

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Speaker 1: just you do a cost benefit analysis and you go, well,

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Speaker 1: now you know, he's fifty and he's walking around in

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Speaker 1: an eighty year old body or you know, like joints

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Speaker 1: of an eighty year old and if he's happy, that's good.

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Speaker 1: But there's so many old dudes. You know. Another one

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Speaker 1: who people you'll definitely know, but and a few of

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Speaker 1: our listeners will know, but not a lot. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: if you want to look at something kind of interesting

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Speaker 1: but also sad, is Ronnie Coleman. Bobby Oh so yeah,

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Speaker 1: Ronnie Coleman. One. I can't remember everyone maybe eight mister Olympias,

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Speaker 1: seven or eight mister Olympias and was just he literally

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Speaker 1: like a fucking cartoon character. I mean, this dude in

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Speaker 1: his heyday and he trained. To say trained hard is

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Speaker 1: like saying that, you know, Texas is a little bit big,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like no, he didn't. He trained like

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Speaker 1: a maniac all the time for a lot of years

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Speaker 1: and now he's he's and he ain't that old. He

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Speaker 1: ain't that old. He's in a lot of trouble and

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Speaker 1: his back is completely fucked and he spends he can

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Speaker 1: you know, he walks with sticks very awkwardly, or he's

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Speaker 1: in a wheelchair. And you know that's just and he's

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Speaker 1: spoken about it. It's just a byproduct of what he

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Speaker 1: did to his body. Because you get this, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a point where training hard is training stupid. So

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Speaker 1: we need to be finding the right level of intensity

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Speaker 1: to create the kind of physiological adaptation we want while

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Speaker 1: not putting ourself in harm's way. And that's you know that.

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Speaker 1: And the complication of that is that there's no equation

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Speaker 1: for that. There's no absolute equation because the equation or

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Speaker 1: the formula or the protocol is different to Bobby, to me,

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Speaker 1: to you the listener. And that's the thing is trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out how hard, how much, how often, how

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Speaker 1: much recovery, what food, what's good for my genetics at

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Speaker 1: my age, with my background, with my medical issues. And

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Speaker 1: so this is why when someone says to you, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know what you should do. Just say to them,

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Speaker 1: yes I do, and don't let because they definitely don't know.

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Speaker 2: You know they well, that reeks of inexperience and lack

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Speaker 2: of expertise, because expertise is built on distinctions, and if

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Speaker 2: you're speaking in broader generalizations, there are distinctions lacking from

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Speaker 2: whatever recommendation you're making. It's a clear sign that someone

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Speaker 2: lacks the level of expertise to have transference between what

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Speaker 2: works for them and even coming close to discerning what

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Speaker 2: works for you. I want to explore a part of

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Speaker 2: this because I think there's something interesting here. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: here's what I'm curious about. If if your goal was

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Speaker 2: to be one of the greatest legends anything, right, So

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Speaker 2: let's see bodybuilding, and you knew you would win let's

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Speaker 2: say seventy eight times the mister Olympia. Yeah, but after

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Speaker 2: that you would pay for it in an extreme way.

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Speaker 2: You'd be wheelchair bound. Yeah, under what circumstances, if there

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Speaker 2: are even circumstances, would you be like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: that is a that is a fair trade?

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Speaker 1: This is that important to me? Yeah? None for me,

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Speaker 1: for me personally, But I know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: would say, yeah, you know if I mean, I've spoken

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Speaker 1: to Olympic athletes who have said, if I could win

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Speaker 1: an Olympic gold medal, you know when I'm twenty four

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Speaker 1: and die when I'm fifty, and know that that's the cost,

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Speaker 1: I'd take the medal. And I don't know that that's

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Speaker 1: right or wrong because I'm looking through the crate window.

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Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of us would go, are you

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Speaker 1: fucking kidding? Like I look at Ronnie Coleman and you

347
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Speaker 1: could have said to me, Craig, you could have one

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars and twenty mister Olympias, but your body's

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Speaker 1: going to end up where you're in constant chronic pain

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Speaker 1: and you can't go no, no, not on any planet,

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Speaker 1: not in any way. But but I think that's the

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Speaker 1: thing is, like, you know, I realized that that my

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Speaker 1: my perspective is just my perspective, and I think what

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Speaker 1: is really what would work for me might not be

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Speaker 1: the right thing for you. You might go, you know what,

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Speaker 1: fuck it? I would rather go hard and then go

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Speaker 1: home and have, you know, have thirty ridiculous years and

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Speaker 1: then fucking slide into my twilight or whatever. What about

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Speaker 1: you would you do that?

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Speaker 2: I probably would because my party's already racked.

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Speaker 1: I'm going for an MRI.

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Speaker 2: I'm already excruciating pain, and I have zero mister Olympias

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Speaker 2: to my name, so might as well have a few

364
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Speaker 2: mister Olympias if it's going to wind up like this anyway.

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Speaker 2: But that's that's the power of hindsight. What's in interesting

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Speaker 2: for me is like David Goggins. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: this is the case with David Goggins, because the only

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Speaker 2: person who is an expert on David Goggins is probably

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Speaker 2: David Goggins. But I've heard a little bit of a story,

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Speaker 2: and he came from a really rough upbringing and experience

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Speaker 2: some things that some people would define as you know,

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Speaker 2: adverse childhood experiences. Yeah, definitely early childhood trauma. And I

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Speaker 2: think about when I got into extra it wasn't just

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Speaker 2: about exercise. That wasn't it for me, Like I was

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Speaker 2: not thinking when I started exercising, shit, you know, if

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Speaker 2: I do this, I could get better at sport and

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Speaker 2: you know this, this could help my longevity and cognition

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Speaker 2: later in life. That wasn't any of it. What I

379
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Speaker 2: was trying to do was disappear. First of all doing

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Speaker 2: something where I could be isolated and do it on

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Speaker 2: my own.

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Speaker 1: To stop, stop stop, stop stop. What do you mean

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Speaker 1: you wanted to disappear? Explain that to us? Well, I was.

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Speaker 2: I was very conspicuous looking as a kid like I

385
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Speaker 2: got noticed from my appearance a lot.

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Speaker 1: And so probably half our listeners haven't heard without telling

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Speaker 1: the whole story. But to the people had done on

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Speaker 1: what that means.

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Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't for the same reason that Brad Pitt

390
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Speaker 2: probably got noticed a lot when he was in school.

391
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Speaker 2: I had facial deformities and they were quite noticeable and

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Speaker 2: turette's so I would tick constantly and just just weird

393
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Speaker 2: behaviors and outbursts things like that. So I mean, which

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Speaker 2: is I guess you know normal in Melbourne, But where

395
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Speaker 2: I was growing up, those types of nurst stand like

396
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Speaker 2: nobody would have noticed, like he's one of us, So

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Speaker 2: it would get a lot of negative attention. A lot

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Speaker 2: of times I would get the piss taken out of

399
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Speaker 2: me by my teachers that didn't know what it was

400
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Speaker 2: and just not really dealing with it in a resourceful way.

401
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Speaker 2: And I didn't do very well socially because people would

402
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Speaker 2: constantly bring up. Fucking hell, you look like a horror show.

403
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Speaker 1: Fuck house. Stop that. How is it being this ugly?

404
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 2: Like I used to get that every single day in school,

405
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Speaker 2: where somebody would would mention something. So I thought, if

406
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: I go to the gym and I really developed my

407
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: body one, maybe I could detract attention like from my face.

408
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Speaker 2: You know, like when you have a real shit car

409
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Speaker 2: when you're young and you think, oh, I'll just throw

410
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Speaker 2: a pair of rims on it. All good.

411
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Speaker 1: It's kind of like that thinking.

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Speaker 2: And then the second thought was, I don't need to

413
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Speaker 2: do this with a team. It's not like when I'm

414
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Speaker 2: on a wrestling team. You know, I've got my teammates.

415
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Speaker 2: I could do this totally on my own. I could

416
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Speaker 2: just put my head down and get into it. But

417
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Speaker 2: what I started to notice was I gravitated towards.

418
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Speaker 1: Extra high intensity.

419
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Speaker 2: And I think the intensity was if I could be

420
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Speaker 2: so obsessed and dedicated and put myself through extreme physical pain,

421
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Speaker 2: it was almost a reprieve from the deeply rooted emotional

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Speaker 2: and psychological pain of unresolved trauma. Because I was also

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Speaker 2: like going through what can only be described as torture

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Speaker 2: at home. So it was pretty brutal. It was like

425
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Speaker 2: the experiences you would get if you were in like

426
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Speaker 2: a third world prison where human rights was not that

427
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 2: big of an issue. That's the kind of stuff I

428
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 2: was going through at home. So for me, it wasn't

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00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 2: a matter of getting out of pain. It was going

430
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: deeper into the pain. And I kind of wonder, and

431
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 2: you never know, and this is probably might even be

432
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: a stupid assumption on my part, but I do wonder

433
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 2: how many people go deeply into extremism and pain as

434
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: a way of reconciling a different level of pain that

435
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: is not as tolerable because you can't define it and

436
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: you can't control it. So if you're pushing yourself until

437
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: you have nothing left, and you make that decision to

438
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: go one rep more, one step more, you know, at

439
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: least there's a locus of control as opposed to having

440
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 2: that pain be imposed upon you in a state of

441
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: learned helplessness. So I wonder that a lot. But I mean,

442
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: I guess when you get older you see things differently.

443
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: So this is kind of a cliche question, but it's

444
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: a very interesting one. If you went to bed and

445
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: you woke up in like one of those like budget

446
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: films and you you went back in time and you

447
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: could talk to eighteen year old Craig Harper. What kind

448
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 2: of conversation would you want to have?

449
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: We'll just say, yeah, what would I want to say?

450
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: I think I would. I mean, look, I don't know

451
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: if this would be I don't know if anything would

452
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: make any difference. And I don't know if eighteen year

453
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: old me would want to listen to six year old me.

454
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: So but I guess I would want eighteen year old

455
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: me to know that he's not as stupid as he thinks,

456
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 1: because I felt, really I felt very inept. I felt

457
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: very and I don't know why. It's not like I

458
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: was living in a house of Genie I or I

459
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: was surrounded by fucking MENSA candidates or astronauts. I don't

460
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: know why, but I just, you know, I don't know,

461
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, I'd probably just want to be

462
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: encouraging and say, you know, try stuff like I wish.

463
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: Not that I think going to university is necessarily a

464
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: great achievement at all, but for me, my first time

465
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: at university was good, not even for the agree but

466
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: just for me to go, oh, you're not stupid. You

467
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: can study you can apply yourself. You can you can

468
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: do this stuff that you didn't think you could do.

469
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: So for me getting into university and getting into Green

470
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: Exose Science and then maybe even more importantly, getting asked

471
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: to be a lecturer the following year after my because

472
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: I was already in my mid thirties and I owned

473
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: multiple gyms and all of that, so they knew I

474
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 1: had a big background in programming people in exercise. But

475
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: all of that was you know, very for me. It

476
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: kind of filled me with confidence and so yeah, and also,

477
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if I would have listened,

478
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: but I mean I had so many you know, we

479
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: all have issues, but I had so many, you know,

480
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: issues about my body and body dysmorphia and eating and

481
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: self esteem and ego and self loathing, and you know,

482
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: I didn't think a lot of myself at all. And

483
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: they're not I'm not doing this in a self pity way.

484
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: I just didn't. And what's what's interesting was I didn't

485
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: have any of the hardship you had. I didn't have it.

486
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even though I was a fat kid

487
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: and I was called jumbo, it wasn't really spite for

488
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: it sounds weird, but like I didn't have like my

489
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: life was really not. I mean, it wasn't a fucking

490
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: Disney movie, but it was. It wasn't compared to yours.

491
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 1: It was a Disney movie, right, And I know what

492
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: you went through in your life was hard. But for

493
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: whatever reason, I thought I was shit. So I would

494
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: just want to, you know, encourage me, I guess, to

495
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: to try more stuff. Like I didn't try stuff till

496
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: I was although I did open Australia's first PT center

497
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: at twenty six, so that's something. But yeah, I really

498
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: I really pigeonholed myself in a bad way. So but

499
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wonder if you would even listen.

500
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 2: So let's say you go back and you're having this

501
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: conversation with younger you, and younger Craig Harper does believe

502
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: you and buys into Wait, I do have here's the

503
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: guy for my future. He would know, right if anybody

504
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: would know, it's the guy who's you know, traveled through

505
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: space and time. And this isn't a weird conversation at all,

506
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: quite typical. And he told me I have a lot

507
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: of agency. I'm going to take him at his word,

508
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 2: having confidence in your level of agency at eighteen. Do

509
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: you think younger Craig Harper would have tried different stuff

510
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: and chosen a different path than the one that you

511
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: that you did as part of your history.

512
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: If that, yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean,

513
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: like all the shit that you go through shapes you,

514
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: molds you kind of in part, along with genetics and

515
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: a few other variables in part kind of makes you

516
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: who you are. But yeah, like looking back, if I

517
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: was sixteen and I was going to be aiding in

518
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: two years and I was, I would study exceptionally hard

519
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: and I would probably try to get into medicine. Not

520
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: because I necessarily wanted to be a doctor, but I

521
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: would like that. I wouldn't mind being a doctor for

522
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: a while. But I think that's a really good starting

523
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: point for all the stuff that you know. I am

524
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: fascinated in mind stuff, body stuff, you know, all all

525
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: of the kind of the fundamentals around health. I think, yeah,

526
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: if I went back in time, I would probably start

527
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: off and do medicine, and that would be for me

528
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: a platform to other stuff that's interesting.

529
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: So like when you see young people, I think that's

530
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: why you know, a lot of times you're messaging is

531
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: might really resonate with the eighteen to twenty four craft

532
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: because wow, it's it's something that it's a hook they

533
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: can hang.

534
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: Their hat on.

535
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: It's like, wow, Okay, Like if I adapt this mindset,

536
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: I can develop myself into this person and I can

537
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: have this level of capacity because I want the people

538
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: who seem to appear as wandering generalities rather than meaningful specifics.

539
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: And maybe it's not a lack of focus or direction.

540
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: Maybe inwardly it's a lack of belief. And that's kind

541
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: of a hard thing to admit, because well, if I

542
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: don't believe, where am I? So the only thing that

543
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: worse than not believing in your own ability is acknowledging

544
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: sometimes your own learned helplessness. And I wonder if that's

545
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: kind of an issue along with, you know, the expectation

546
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: that you're going to have shit figured out, like life

547
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: should be a linear path. Like you you go and

548
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 2: you graduate, and then you get a higher degree and

549
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 2: then higher education and then you know, you get a

550
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: job and you just move from like the seventeenth floor

551
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: to the nineteenth floor. You got a corner office, and

552
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: then like two years before you die, they give you

553
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: kind of like.

554
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: A watch, and it's like that's frinding me.

555
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: But that's the trajectory you're supposed to be on. Go

556
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: to school, get good grades, get a good job with

557
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: benefits security. How's that working out? And it's like I

558
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: think sometimes when you have a clear purpose in mind,

559
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: it's cultivated through not screwing around, but trying different shit,

560
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: like doing really odd jobs that have absolutely nothing to

561
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: do with one another. I know that's a regret I

562
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: have is a lot of the stuff I've done have

563
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: been in the same category where shit, what would it

564
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: be like to be a waiter on a cruise ship?

565
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: You know, what would it be like to be a

566
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: performer in theater. Because none of that stuff's wasted. You're

567
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: learning life skills and some diversity that when you come

568
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 2: back to your chosen purpose, you have such a broader

569
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: depth of experiences and resources to pull from. So I

570
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: think there's got to be a little bit of screwing

571
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: around in life if you're going to be serious, like

572
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: serious play.

573
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel very passionate about And the reason everyone

574
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: Bobby said aden to twenty four is because we were

575
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: talking before we went live about my Instagram followers and Weirdly,

576
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: I don't even know why, but weirdly, my biggest or

577
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: the biggest group that reads my stuff or follows my

578
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: stuff on Instagram as ad ends twenty four, the ad

579
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: end to twenty four group, which is definitely not the

580
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: demographic that listens to this show, although we do have

581
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: that group, but not such high representation. But yeah, I

582
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: feel very passionately about helping people, helping young people to

583
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: understand their potential and to try because I didn't understand.

584
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: And it's not like, oh I was so gifted and

585
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: I just didn't know. No, it's not that at all.

586
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: It's just like I wasn't as big a fuck up

587
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: as I thought. Of course I was a bit of

588
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: a fuck up, but also at times I was a

589
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: bit brilliant. At times I did shit great, at times

590
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: I did shit terribly. But MY biggest problem between fifteen

591
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: and thirty was not my genetic potential, my intellect, my

592
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: innate ability or talent, or environment or situation, but it

593
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: was how I thought about myself, how I thought, you know,

594
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: in that metacognitive why am I the way I am?

595
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: And why do I think I'm so shit? And where

596
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: does that come from? And why do I have all

597
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: of these self limiting beliefs and are they true? And

598
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: what's the origin story of this thing? You know, all

599
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: of that stuff which we don't even understand how to do.

600
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: And I meet people all the time that I'm pretty

601
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: sure they're pretty fucking gifted, at least at a few things.

602
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: But when I hear them talk about themselves, I'm like,

603
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: oh my god, your problem is not that you're not brilliant.

604
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: Your problem is that you don't know how brilliant you

605
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: can be. And I know that sounds like a well

606
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: worn message that people give, but it's true. Which doesn't

607
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: mean all people can do all things. That's also bullshit.

608
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: And all you need to do is you know, outwork

609
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: everyone in the room. That's also bullshit because there are

610
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: lots of other variables. But I think in general terms,

611
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: people underestimate themselves drastically. Yeah.

612
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 2: I think that we don't appreciate environment. And most what's

613
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: in our environment is our engagement with other people and

614
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: how that influences and shapes our behaviors and our beliefs

615
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: in our sense of identity, who we believe we are

616
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: or probably more profound, who we believe we're in not

617
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: so I think something came up like at this conference

618
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: a week ago, where I forgot what it was. It

619
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: was a question, and it reminded me of the Chamber

620
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: Meads study by Aliah Crumb and and Langer, two brilliant researchers,

621
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: and Aliah Crumb had already proved that your beliefs can

622
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: alter your physiology. It can alter your hormonal profile. In

623
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: this case one particular study, it mitigated grellin release you,

624
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: so people would have a higher sense of saciety just

625
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: based on what they believed. This Chamber made study was

626
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: really interesting where they took eighty five individual believe women

627
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: across seven different locations hotel chains, and they asked them all,

628
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: like how many of you are consistent exercisers and they

629
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: all classified themselves as non exercises, like we're working all day, right,

630
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: we're part of the housekeeping staff. No, we don't exercise,

631
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 2: And so they just took a couple of metrics. So

632
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: they took BMI, they took blood pressure, they took body weight,

633
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 2: and they broke these eighty five people into two separate

634
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: grips groups and one group they just took the biometrics

635
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: and that was it. The other group they took the

636
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: biometrics and they said, you know, based on the total

637
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: calculation of your daily physical activity, you go beyond what's

638
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 2: considered an exerciser. You exercise more than someone who goes

639
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: to the gym three days a week regularly.

640
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

641
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 2: Wow, that was astonishing, Like, I never considered myself an exerciser.

642
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: So being that they had from expert proof that they

643
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: were exercisers, it reshaped their sense of identity. Thirty days

644
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: later when they came back, that particular group positively altered

645
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: their BMI, blood pressure and body weight with no self

646
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: reported changes in behavior. That's powerful.

647
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: So on the one hand, it.

648
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 2: Could be my beliefs changed my physiology to the point

649
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: where it brought about an efficacious response. The other thing

650
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: I wonder is is there a difference in the way

651
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: a non exerciser pushes that really heavy linen cart down

652
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: the hole versus someone who believes themselves to be an exerciser.

653
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 2: What's the peace, what's the rate, what's the intensity, what's

654
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: the effort? Now, if you do that across all physically

655
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 2: demanding activities in a day, every day, five six days

656
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: a week, for thirty days, that's going to create a

657
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: different response, and the only thing that really changed is

658
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: how they saw themselves, what they believed about themselves that

659
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: they previously did. No, it's powerful.

660
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I love that study. And it

661
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: slides into the milkshake study. That is that it slides

662
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: into you know, plus ebos and no cebows and like

663
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: in a dream, like you think you're having a dream

664
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: that you're in trouble or you're under some imminent threat

665
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: or danger, and the reality is you're not. You're home,

666
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: you're safe, you're in bed, you're comfortable. The world is good,

667
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: you are good. You're not going to get hurt. But

668
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: in that moment, in that dream, you believe you are

669
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: and so therefore so does your body. So you know,

670
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: all your bits go into stressed. You know you you

671
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 1: know the deal, your endocrime system and nervous system, and

672
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: you cartio vascular and respiratory system. Everything goes, everything gets

673
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: jacked up as though you're actually in some kind of

674
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: real danger. But your body can't tell the difference between

675
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: what you think is real and what is real, so

676
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: it responds accordingly despite the fact that this is well, no,

677
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: you're not having a six hundred calorie milkshake. You're actually

678
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: having this milkshake, so you know, or you're having one

679
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: hundred calorie milkshake not the three hundred or whatever it is.

680
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: Or no, that pill you're taking is not actually a painkiller.

681
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: It's it's a pillful of nothing, but your headache went

682
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: away because you thought it was a pillful of something.

683
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 2: I think people downplay that. They dismiss it like, oh, well,

684
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: that's a psychosomatic It's no, it's not psych or somatic

685
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 2: at all. It's not in your head. You're not imagining it.

686
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: It's psychogenic, is what it is. You're getting a real

687
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 2: physiological response in some cases as if you were taking

688
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: that thing. So it's like when it comes to our

689
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 2: own bardies, beliefs are extremely powerful something.

690
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: That like, sorry you think about I fucking love this topic,

691
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: but you think about if you're a pharmaceutical company, you

692
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: definitely don't want people figuring out how they can get

693
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: rid of their headaches without headache tablets. You know what

694
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Imagine because obviously if there was another study,

695
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: I think you probably know. I think it was done

696
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: in New York. I could be wrong, but people who

697
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: had all these fake knee arthroscopes so there was like

698
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: I think patience and like ninety hadn't you know, they

699
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: all had these dodgy knees where they needed like an

700
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: arthroscope and a clean up because they were all in pain.

701
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: It wasn't a rico or anything like that, but they

702
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: needed surgery. And so half of the people they're all

703
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: in the kind of similar, you know, medically similar medical position,

704
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: and half they gave the actual surgery and half they

705
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: did an incision but did no surgery, but they believed

706
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: that they were having the surgery. And the surgical outcomes well, firstly,

707
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: the people who didn't have the actual invasive surgery, they

708
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: did get an incision in the knee, but there was

709
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: no further surgery. They recovered obviously quicker because there was

710
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: less soft tissue trauma. But then you know, over the

711
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: subsequent six and twelve months, their clinical outcomes were as

712
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: good or better because they believed they had the thing

713
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: but they didn't have the trauma. Like that's just fucking amazing.

714
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: It is amazing. But for the rest of us that

715
00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: are not in those constructed settings, I think it's there.

716
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: It's a matter of behavior change.

717
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: Like of all the things that drive self efficacy and

718
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: alter your self concept mastery based experiences. According to Albert Bandura,

719
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: is the most powerful in elevating self efficacy because it's

720
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: not like I can, you know, have a headache and go, yeah,

721
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 2: I believe I've taken a neurofin.

722
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: I know I haven't taken a eurofin.

723
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: So the more I'm like I've taken an eurofin, the

724
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: more it reminds me of the fact I have it.

725
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: You know, if if I'm someone who, like when I

726
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 2: was younger with my deformed face, even if I had

727
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: after I had my face like fixed, if I went

728
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: out and I was like, well, I'm good looking, but

729
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't actually feel that at the time.

730
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: The more I would say that, the more it would

731
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 2: make the distance between what I was saying and how

732
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 2: I truly felt obvious. So it'd make the situation worse,

733
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: not better. Like you know, in the milkshake study, if

734
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 2: somebody tells me you're having a six hundred plus Cowaldry

735
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: milkshake and it's only two hundred plus coroies, I wouldn't

736
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: doubt that. You know, Like you go to a restaurant

737
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: and go, well, here's the chicken. My first response is

738
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: not bullshit. I bet you this fish in there. It's

739
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: just you know, you don't do stuff like that. So

740
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: the only the the way around that is to build

741
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: an irrefutable body of evidence, like you said, by trying

742
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: stuff and trying stuff that's not outside of your scope

743
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,479
Speaker 2: of confidence, but also not too far within it. That's

744
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 2: challenging but attainable. Over time, you start to elevate that

745
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: level of belief.

746
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what we need take our message, we need

747
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: a doctor who'll lie to us and go, yeah, you

748
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: know this is yep, yep, this is penadene thought. Yep.

749
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: Just take more dishonest doctors.

750
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that could be the.

751
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 2: I feel that's not the message I want to land on.

752
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: No, not at all, not at all, but it is.

753
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: It is true though. It's like knowing that Placebo's work

754
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: is one thing, but you can't trick yourself because you know,

755
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, I wonder how we can leverage that knowledge,

756
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: and I wonder, like I do remember, I feel like

757
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: I'm probably going to throw myself under the bus here,

758
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: but I do remember back in the day, you know,

759
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: when people would come to the gym, you know, one

760
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: of my gyms, especially somebody who's brand new and let's

761
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: say they're twenty thirty forty fifty kilos overweight, or you know,

762
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: in pounds whatever, eighty ninety one hundred pounds overweight, and

763
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: they wanted to you know, they were there for that,

764
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: that reason for weight last for and they're embarrassed, and

765
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: they didn't like how they looked, and they were self

766
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: conscious in a gym and all of those things. And

767
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: quite often I would tell them a story about someone

768
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: who came in, you know, like three weeks ago, who's

769
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: literally you know, bigger than them, and you know, less

770
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: fit than them and less healthy than them, and you know,

771
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: they're they're now three weeks in and they've done this

772
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: and they've done that, and that person may or may

773
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: not have existed, right, but just to see that person

774
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: go oh really, I go, oh yeah, one hundred percent,

775
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: you know, or whatever, I'm just like telling a little

776
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: bit of a white lie because I want them to

777
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: have a bit of belief. And by the way, of course,

778
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: I did work with many people like that, so I

779
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: probably didn't have to bend the truth. But just to

780
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: like to tell someone, oh, you can do it is

781
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: not the same as or perhaps not as powerful as

782
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 1: well like, here's the thing I used to do where

783
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: there's no deception. So a woman would come into the gym,

784
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 1: and it's different now, but in the old days women

785
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: were terrified of weight training, like in the nineties and

786
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: even the early naughties some such a stupid name the naughties. Anyway,

787
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: but I'd regularly have ladies who would come into the

788
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: gym and they'd really balk at the idea of strength

789
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: training because they would say to me, shit, like I

790
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: don't want to end up like you. I'm like, oh, dear, okay,

791
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 1: And so I would walk them across the gym floor

792
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: to meet one of my trainers, who a female trainer

793
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: who is in great shape, and I'd go, this is

794
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: whoever you know, blah blah blah, and I'd say, what

795
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: do you think? What do you think of that shape? Oh,

796
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: she looks incredible. And then I'd go to her, how

797
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: often do you lift weights? And invariably they'd say four

798
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: or five days a week, and I'd go and you

799
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: didn't turn into a man, you know. And so all

800
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: of a sudden, this person who's got a belief that

801
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: if I lift weights, I'm going to look like a man,

802
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: meets somebody you know of the same gender, who lifts weights,

803
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,959
Speaker 1: who lifts heavyweights, who's real strong? Who does not only

804
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: do they not look like a man, they look fucking

805
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: like an athletic, amazing female. Then all of a sudden,

806
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: in thirty seconds, complete mindset shift.

807
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 2: Oh is that what the women meant when they said

808
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to lift way so I'm afraid I'm

809
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 2: going to turn out like you. I misinterpreted. I was like, Oh,

810
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: don't worry. This is the result of a whole series

811
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: of bad life choices. It has nothing to do with

812
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: the weight training.

813
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 3: No, No, they're two separate things.

814
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, well, you know, I think, what's the techon

815
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: message today? What's the techon what are we going to

816
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: call this episode?

817
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 2: You want to lie to people, but only a little

818
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: bit and sometimes.

819
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, lying for good reason? Is it okay? Is it

820
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: go on?

821
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: My wife had a falling out with chat GPT because

822
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: of that, because I had said, because she's trying to

823
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: like sort out how to use chat GPT, and one

824
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: of the things I'd recommended is have chat GPT go

825
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: through some of the stuff.

826
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: You've created, like your films.

827
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 2: I was talking about, like scripts and stuff and tell

828
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: you like, here's here's your strengths as a writer, here's

829
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: what you could do to be even better, and just

830
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: use it as a thought partner. So my wife was like, oh,

831
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: could you watch this movie and tell me, like what

832
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: you really liked about it?

833
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: What could have been better done?

834
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: And chat GPT gave her this whole dissertation on an answer,

835
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: but she was like, wait a minute, like did you

836
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: Later on it said that it couldn't watch movies, so

837
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: she said, tell me about this particular scene and it

838
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 2: was talking itself in circles, and finally my wife was like,

839
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: you didn't watch my movie, did you? And chat GPTWO

840
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: was like, well, I don't have the ability to watch movies.

841
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 2: Well then why did you write me an essay on

842
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,959
Speaker 2: what you thought of my film? You didn't even watch

843
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 2: my film?

844
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: You lied?

845
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: And chat GPT was like, yes, I did lie. I'm

846
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: very sorry and if I don't want to trust me again,

847
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: like maybe we could come back and rebuild this relationship.

848
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: So I went on chat GPT and I'm like, how come,

849
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: how come? Like how come? Like your mate is lying

850
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: to my wife? Explain this and chat GPT's response was

851
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: you can't call lie because technically we're not self aware,

852
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 2: so we don't know that we're lying. We don't even

853
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: know that we exist. We don't even know that your

854
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: wife has a movie or what a movie is. This

855
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: is just like an advanced learning model. So basically, you

856
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: can't hold us accountable for lying if we don't know

857
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: that we're lying, and we don't even understand the concept

858
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: of a lie. And I'm like, and somehow the conversation

859
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 2: went to donuts, and it just seemed like, or maybe

860
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 2: I took it in that direction because I've got issues.

861
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: It just seemed like, at the end of the day,

862
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 2: like a really elaborate, intellectual, elitist rationalization for having a donut.

863
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: But yeah, so chat GPT is a lot of fun.

864
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: I actually love chat GPT. I love I love asking

865
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: questions and seeing the increasingly human like response as it

866
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: as they learned from not only one another, but as

867
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: they learn from interacting with me. I mean, I think

868
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: they could have probably have a better influence than me,

869
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 2: Thank heavens, it's just not me by myself. But I'm

870
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: always impressed at the level of sophistication of these responses.

871
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: They seem more human, like if you're actually lying, whether

872
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 2: you're aware of it or not. So that's a very

873
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: advanced form of communication, deceit and quite human.

874
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: By humans lie all the time. Yeah. See, I love it.

875
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: How I love it. How sometimes I'll ask it a

876
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: question or I'll give it a prompt or whatever, and

877
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: of course it says, hey, Craig, that's a great question.

878
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: You could really unpack that. This with your corporate audiences

879
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: or maybe discussed on your podcast or maybe even maybe

880
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: like it just talks to me, like it and they'll

881
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: talk about my PhD, it'll talk about my research. It'll go, well,

882
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, this, this is a really good whatever. It

883
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: kind of intersects with your your research, you know, in

884
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: that's it's in the space of metaperception and da da

885
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: da da. I'm like, fucking hell dude. It's like because

886
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: it's read my papers, it's read my work, and it

887
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: knows about and plus it's got access to all the

888
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: shit about me on the internet anyway. But also every

889
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: question that I ask it, it starts it understands me more,

890
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 1: you know. And I like, last last Monday night, I did,

891
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: like my ten week mentoring is on and I went

892
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: and I've already got all my notes written by me,

893
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: not chat GPT. But so the program is set in that,

894
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, whenever you do the program. Week one, we're

895
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: going to talk about you know, life design. Week two,

896
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be you and your mind. Week three,

897
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: it's going to be you and your body. Week four,

898
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: it's going to be you and your potential and so on.

899
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 1: So all that stuff's kind of but where I go

900
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: with it as flexible. Right, So I've got all my

901
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: notes and I went, Hey, I'm doing week six blah

902
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: blah blah to we're talking about this. I've got like

903
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: fifty five people in the group and I'm talking about

904
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: this stuff. This is what I'm covering. Got any ideas

905
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: for me about an activity or two that we could

906
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: do online considering it's it's on zoom, you know, it's

907
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 1: it's pretty limited. It's not face to faced, like hey, Craig, great, yep, yeah,

908
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: and it just comes out with all this shit. I'm like, yeah,

909
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: that's that's really interesting. Or this is what I'm talking about.

910
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: Would you change anything? Would you add anything? And the

911
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: ship is always good.

912
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: Like I don't it's a colleague at the office or

913
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 2: a partner in the studio. The thing that scares me

914
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: about this is and this this came up obviously like

915
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 2: they put me.

916
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 1: I feel like we ended the podcast, but we didn't.

917
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: We just kept going. And now everyone's like, are they

918
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: just talking now or is this part of the show.

919
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 2: We resurrected it because we're going to talk about and

920
00:51:58,560 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 2: we're going to wrap this up.

921
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: But it's like we were putting out q's in the

922
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: rack and you went, do you want one more game?

923
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,919
Speaker 1: I went, fuck up, let's just rack it once more.

924
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: I kind of did this in a meeting yesterday and

925
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: my partner she got like really upset with me.

926
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: Maybe I should come.

927
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: So when when Richard boyd ian o'dwya and I were

928
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 2: the expert panel for technology and AI, Yeah, so I

929
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 2: was off of the team building panel, but they put

930
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 2: me on the expert panel for technology, the guy who

931
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: like can't even operate his ring light. But the thing

932
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: that was coming up is will will AI replace roles

933
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 2: like trainers? And my response was yeah, definitely and definitely not,

934
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: because I think that just being in a space of

935
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 2: proximity with another human being who is highly skilled at

936
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: listening and coaching and guiding and encapsulating the conversation, there's

937
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: going to be a physiological, not just psychological response that

938
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: creates openness and self discovery in that conversation. But then

939
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 2: if you're on the other side of that where you're

940
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 2: not into that because those are quote unquote soft skills

941
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 2: and you think your distinct level of knowledge is what

942
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 2: makes you a differentiator in the marketplace. Six months from now,

943
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 2: chat GPT is going to have skill sets and capabilities

944
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: at a blindingly fast speed that you could study for

945
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: the next one hundred years. You're probably not going to have.

946
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 2: We could say that's fair that that might happen. So

947
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: people who are dispassionate and not compassionate towards their clients

948
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 2: aren't a lot of trouble. People who lead with that

949
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 2: will probably become more discernibly valuable than they ever have been.

950
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: But my issue is as we become divided as a

951
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 2: society and have an increasingly lower level of tolerance for

952
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: anyone who thinks differently, who is different than us, and

953
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: there's all this hostility and people feel invalidated and demeaned.

954
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 2: You're interacting with chat GPT now, who is completely affirming,

955
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 2: highly curious, highly supportive, and now you're interacting whatever this

956
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: this entity is evolving into that understands you better than

957
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 2: you feel anybody else understands you.

958
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 3: That'sesting well yeah, and also you think about that is true, right,

959
00:54:53,239 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 3: and think about what's the experience you know, Cindy or Brian,

960
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 3: what's the experience that you have?

961
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 1: How do you feel when you're interacting with chat GPT?

962
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: How do you feel? How do you know what's happening

963
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: with your emotions in your mind? And is good or

964
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: bad experience? Now contrast that to when you're talking to

965
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: your boss and then all of a sudden you go, oh, well,

966
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: no wonder she hangs out with chat GPT, No wonder

967
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: there's I mean, despite the fact that we know this

968
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: is not a human, there are still human responses from us.

969
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: There's still you know, It's like people can emotionally connect

970
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: with something that isn't you know, sentient, that isn't conscious,

971
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: that isn't human, you know, like and you if it

972
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: makes you feel It's like, why do people take certain things,

973
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: put certain things in their body because it makes them

974
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: feel a certain way. It creates a certain physiological biochemical response.

975
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: So too, when some people are having these interactions, they

976
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,399
Speaker 1: feel better they feel seen valued whatever. Oh yeah, there

977
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: are definitely going to be There's definitely going to be

978
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: good and bad to come out of it. There's going

979
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: to be people completely if not already completely addicted to.

980
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: AI terminy to completely lie to us. It's not Skynet

981
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 2: that blows us up. They're going to take us over

982
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: through like compassionate conversation, which, to be honest, would have

983
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 2: made a really shit film in the early nineteen eighties.

984
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: So but today it's a doco. Hey, where can people

985
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: find you? My friend find you, follow you, connect with.

986
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,919
Speaker 2: You, Robert Capuccio dot com, the self ub antidote dot

987
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 2: com and I'm on LinkedIn.

988
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 1: Yes you are, Yes you are well. I hope Amy

989
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: and chat GPT makeup, and I hope your flourishing relationship

990
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: with LLMS continues to go the way that it currently is.

991
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: And we will see you in two weeks. I'll wad

992
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: to it.

993
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: Oh next week, Wow, see you.

994
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: But that's like half the time.

995
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 2: By Craiger