1 00:00:05,281 --> 00:00:19,881 Speaker 1: H approche production. I ended up back at Paramatta and 2 00:00:19,921 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: it was a paramatter and the governor was a blake 3 00:00:22,601 --> 00:00:27,721 Speaker 1: called Harry Duff. I'd call him reasonably fair, but he 4 00:00:28,321 --> 00:00:32,121 Speaker 1: was an about sort of a governor. He knew the jarl. 5 00:00:32,201 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: He was one of those blakes. If there was dramas, 6 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,401 Speaker 1: he'd walk in there and talk it out with the krimin. 7 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:38,921 Speaker 1: Come there, come down. 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,121 Speaker 2: At a respectful level and yarned it out with you 9 00:00:41,281 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 2: rather than sending the squad. 10 00:00:43,281 --> 00:00:45,961 Speaker 1: And you know they were rare back in those days. 11 00:00:46,001 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: You sort of had a grudging respect for screws like that. Well, 12 00:00:50,721 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: Duff said, well, listen, look there was about aid of 13 00:00:53,961 --> 00:00:56,841 Speaker 1: us see and he said right, he said, this is 14 00:00:56,881 --> 00:00:58,721 Speaker 1: the ball game. I'll let you see out one at 15 00:00:58,721 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: a time. The first one that fox up is all 16 00:01:01,721 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: going back in the circle. But if you behave yourself, 17 00:01:04,521 --> 00:01:06,681 Speaker 1: you can stay in the journ on his no problem. 18 00:01:06,761 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: Just that's what I want. I don't want your droning 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:10,681 Speaker 1: so and that's what he need he farm to see. 20 00:01:10,721 --> 00:01:12,641 Speaker 1: At one of the time it was about fifth blake out, 21 00:01:12,681 --> 00:01:16,481 Speaker 1: six flague out, and that's how we got we got 22 00:01:16,521 --> 00:01:19,601 Speaker 1: back into got back into mainstream out of the tracks 23 00:01:20,121 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: and that was the end of me track days. 24 00:01:21,761 --> 00:01:24,681 Speaker 2: Do you think Bernie that, I mean, no one can 25 00:01:24,721 --> 00:01:26,801 Speaker 2: ever other than new men that went through that and 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,401 Speaker 2: we're there, could ever truly understand the psychological side of that. 27 00:01:30,441 --> 00:01:33,401 Speaker 2: I mean, I look at a man whom i've met. 28 00:01:33,441 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: I met you when I was a young bloke at 29 00:01:35,601 --> 00:01:39,321 Speaker 2: the Central Industrial Prison that you escaped from many many 30 00:01:39,321 --> 00:01:42,961 Speaker 2: many moons before. I remember you as a very and 31 00:01:43,401 --> 00:01:46,401 Speaker 2: people will pick up on this a very educated man. 32 00:01:47,761 --> 00:01:50,161 Speaker 2: You're an educated man that had done a lot of 33 00:01:50,281 --> 00:01:53,881 Speaker 2: fucking tough jail, more than anyone I'd ever known in 34 00:01:53,921 --> 00:01:54,401 Speaker 2: my life. 35 00:01:55,001 --> 00:01:57,321 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, there was a couple of turning points when 36 00:01:57,361 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: I when I got back to PARAMOUNTA, when I got out. 37 00:02:00,641 --> 00:02:03,721 Speaker 1: I there's a couple of things that happened. It was 38 00:02:03,921 --> 00:02:09,201 Speaker 1: the tunnel from one wing. That was the best way 39 00:02:09,241 --> 00:02:09,961 Speaker 1: to explain this. 40 00:02:10,841 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: Put a criminals and escape on the fucking ground level cell. 41 00:02:16,201 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: I feel on a bit of the story. The best 42 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,881 Speaker 1: way to explain this, explain what I'm about to explain 43 00:02:24,001 --> 00:02:29,601 Speaker 1: is this these the ex tracks, X graft and excatingle tracks. 44 00:02:30,081 --> 00:02:33,761 Speaker 1: We had an I guess a network. It was like 45 00:02:33,761 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: a brotherhood. Yes, now if you hadn't been through a 46 00:02:36,561 --> 00:02:39,321 Speaker 1: graft and you hadn't been through ktingle with us, then 47 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,921 Speaker 1: you weren't part of it. Like I could know you 48 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,321 Speaker 1: in the jail and I say, a lady, you have 49 00:02:43,401 --> 00:02:47,321 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. But you wouldn't be no no 50 00:02:47,321 --> 00:02:48,041 Speaker 1: knowing in the world. 51 00:02:48,161 --> 00:02:48,881 Speaker 2: No, I get it. 52 00:02:48,921 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: You'd be holded arms. Yes, but those blokes have been 53 00:02:52,361 --> 00:02:56,721 Speaker 1: in that bounded by brutality and bounded by isolation and solitary. 54 00:02:57,001 --> 00:03:00,921 Speaker 1: We had a tight little bond. That's part of how 55 00:03:00,921 --> 00:03:06,161 Speaker 1: the tunnel started. Tony Tony Mannigan, he boening incatingle Tony 56 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,881 Speaker 1: was an extract and he'd worked out a way that 57 00:03:10,881 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: that Tony was. He was an educated black too, and 58 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: he was really into New South Wow's history, particularly convict history. 59 00:03:20,441 --> 00:03:22,961 Speaker 1: And he came up and he was talking about it 60 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,801 Speaker 1: in the blockhouse one day. Listen, he said, in the 61 00:03:25,881 --> 00:03:28,561 Speaker 1: old days, the paramount of jail, he said, you know 62 00:03:28,641 --> 00:03:31,601 Speaker 1: the governor's house across the roads. Yeah, he said, well 63 00:03:32,201 --> 00:03:34,721 Speaker 1: they used to take the prisoner from the fucking jail 64 00:03:35,721 --> 00:03:39,361 Speaker 1: in a tunnel underground. Come up in the doctor at 65 00:03:39,401 --> 00:03:42,681 Speaker 1: the governor's house. He said, it's interesting. He said, well 66 00:03:42,721 --> 00:03:47,161 Speaker 1: that means there's tunnels under the jail, like from reading 67 00:03:47,201 --> 00:03:50,441 Speaker 1: books and hearing the stories, and that he'd come to 68 00:03:50,481 --> 00:03:52,841 Speaker 1: the conclusion that that that that there was a tunnel 69 00:03:53,201 --> 00:03:56,681 Speaker 1: somewhere under the jail. Well it wasn't actually a tunnel. 70 00:03:56,721 --> 00:03:59,641 Speaker 1: What it was and what he'd found is he dug 71 00:03:59,681 --> 00:04:02,081 Speaker 1: through the floor of his cell and he was on 72 00:04:02,161 --> 00:04:06,361 Speaker 1: the bottom floor in one wing. And when he dug 73 00:04:06,401 --> 00:04:09,561 Speaker 1: through it, he'd come into another set of cell blocks 74 00:04:09,601 --> 00:04:13,881 Speaker 1: underneath which everybody had forgot about, which nobody knew about, 75 00:04:14,521 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: and it was another set and that was the tunnel. 76 00:04:17,321 --> 00:04:20,201 Speaker 1: See in the old days, the three tiers sell block 77 00:04:20,241 --> 00:04:26,121 Speaker 1: must have been four tiers, yes, or they had as 78 00:04:26,161 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: the years went past, and there was builders made in 79 00:04:28,801 --> 00:04:31,841 Speaker 1: the jail, that the plans had got misplaced somewhere and 80 00:04:31,841 --> 00:04:34,681 Speaker 1: everybody had forgot. Well, anyway, he got in there, he 81 00:04:34,761 --> 00:04:37,961 Speaker 1: figured it out and started digging the tunnel. A couple 82 00:04:38,001 --> 00:04:40,441 Speaker 1: of extracts became involved. There was a lot of us 83 00:04:41,561 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: without talking out of school. A few extracts were involved 84 00:04:46,281 --> 00:04:49,601 Speaker 1: with helping and supplying gear and all the rest of it. 85 00:04:50,201 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: One stage, I was I was up in the third 86 00:04:52,361 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: tier and one of the blokes gave me a walkie talking, 87 00:04:56,961 --> 00:04:59,961 Speaker 1: and he said, listen, burn creeping on the tower. Because 88 00:05:00,161 --> 00:05:02,601 Speaker 1: the tower was right opposite me, I could see when 89 00:05:02,641 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: the screw was So I used to talk on the 90 00:05:05,081 --> 00:05:08,681 Speaker 1: walkie talking while they're in the tunnel downstairs, and I 91 00:05:08,761 --> 00:05:11,041 Speaker 1: tell them where the screws were, where the screws weren't. 92 00:05:11,841 --> 00:05:16,241 Speaker 1: Now that was only one one incident, but other blacks 93 00:05:16,481 --> 00:05:20,641 Speaker 1: got chipboard and supplied gear for him. And yeah, it 94 00:05:20,761 --> 00:05:25,281 Speaker 1: was a communal effort. Now there was one blake that 95 00:05:26,361 --> 00:05:31,361 Speaker 1: was involved. His name was Mick Murphy. Now Murphy became 96 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,881 Speaker 1: involved in the tunnel and there was near completion, and 97 00:05:36,281 --> 00:05:40,801 Speaker 1: they were near. They were just a a bladed grass 98 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:41,841 Speaker 1: away from going home. 99 00:05:42,961 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: Anyway, what happened is Burphy got a visit from his 100 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:53,161 Speaker 3: girl and he said to his girl, listen, I'm going home. 101 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: I want you to have a car at the end 102 00:05:54,921 --> 00:05:57,601 Speaker 1: of the job tonight or tomorrow, right whenever it was. 103 00:05:58,481 --> 00:06:00,801 Speaker 1: And she said why, She said, I'm escaping. He said, 104 00:06:00,801 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: I'm escaping, but I don't want to go with the 105 00:06:02,681 --> 00:06:04,441 Speaker 1: rest of them. There was about there was quite a 106 00:06:04,481 --> 00:06:07,121 Speaker 1: few blokes in ball. I don't want to go with 107 00:06:07,161 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: the rest of them, just in case they kill someone. 108 00:06:08,801 --> 00:06:11,681 Speaker 1: I don't want to be involved. That was his That 109 00:06:11,801 --> 00:06:14,561 Speaker 1: was his story to his girl. Well, his girl's going 110 00:06:14,561 --> 00:06:17,961 Speaker 1: home to mom and said to mom, listen, Mom, will 111 00:06:18,001 --> 00:06:19,681 Speaker 1: you look after the kids to know I've got to 112 00:06:19,721 --> 00:06:22,481 Speaker 1: go out. And of course Mom said, no, Hi, there 113 00:06:22,481 --> 00:06:25,961 Speaker 1: you're kid. You look half from where you've got to go. Anyway, 114 00:06:25,961 --> 00:06:27,601 Speaker 1: there's a lot of toing and throwing all the rest 115 00:06:27,601 --> 00:06:30,801 Speaker 1: of Well, of course she's told mom, look mixed coming home. 116 00:06:30,921 --> 00:06:32,161 Speaker 1: I've got to go and pick him up. Well, of 117 00:06:32,201 --> 00:06:35,601 Speaker 1: course mom's hit the panic button, so she's rang up 118 00:06:35,641 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: the gil. She said, there's going to be an eskate 119 00:06:40,601 --> 00:06:42,921 Speaker 1: And of course whoever answered the fan said, what do 120 00:06:42,961 --> 00:06:45,041 Speaker 1: you means is going to be at the skin said, look, 121 00:06:45,241 --> 00:06:47,561 Speaker 1: I've got it on good authority. There's a tunnel where 122 00:06:47,921 --> 00:06:50,041 Speaker 1: someone's going to dig out, or they're digging out in 123 00:06:50,081 --> 00:06:53,561 Speaker 1: a tunnel or something. Anyway, the screw fucking fort. It 124 00:06:53,601 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: was just a yeah, just a and I think he 125 00:06:56,961 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: was half pissed. Anyway, anyway, she's rang up again. Well, 126 00:07:02,081 --> 00:07:05,361 Speaker 1: the governor, he said, who's the black who's the crim 127 00:07:06,041 --> 00:07:10,201 Speaker 1: She said, Mick Murphy. So that night it was about 128 00:07:10,241 --> 00:07:13,321 Speaker 1: seven o'clock, he'd be about past seven we heard him 129 00:07:13,321 --> 00:07:15,841 Speaker 1: coming into the wind. Well, of course everyone knew what 130 00:07:15,881 --> 00:07:18,081 Speaker 1: was going on, was looking at the door, looking out 131 00:07:18,081 --> 00:07:20,241 Speaker 1: the door, so you know what the screws are coming 132 00:07:20,241 --> 00:07:22,681 Speaker 1: out the wing for. Well, they go to Murphy. So 133 00:07:22,801 --> 00:07:24,721 Speaker 1: he's in the cell with the blake called Terry Humphreys. 134 00:07:25,401 --> 00:07:29,001 Speaker 1: And you know, they go to that cell and they 135 00:07:29,081 --> 00:07:33,041 Speaker 1: dragged Murphy out. The story goes, they gave him a 136 00:07:33,041 --> 00:07:34,641 Speaker 1: couple of back end as they found a couple of 137 00:07:34,681 --> 00:07:37,161 Speaker 1: keys on him. They said, what's going on and he's 138 00:07:37,361 --> 00:07:40,481 Speaker 1: spilled his guts. Well, of course the nextment they got 139 00:07:40,481 --> 00:07:43,201 Speaker 1: to Tony Lannigan selling the rest is history. They formed 140 00:07:43,201 --> 00:07:46,681 Speaker 1: the tunnel and all hell breaks loose. But the bottom, 141 00:07:47,121 --> 00:07:52,321 Speaker 1: the bottom result for that was this Murphy gets rewarded 142 00:07:52,561 --> 00:07:57,801 Speaker 1: for burning informer yes, yes, and to camps and all 143 00:07:57,841 --> 00:08:01,281 Speaker 1: the rest of it. And they send in the silver water. Yes. Now, 144 00:08:01,441 --> 00:08:04,361 Speaker 1: silver water in those days has got a wife fence around. 145 00:08:04,121 --> 00:08:06,681 Speaker 2: It works released pretty much, wasn't it. 146 00:08:07,561 --> 00:08:10,761 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just like you mean to me to escape. 147 00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: Two c three fucking camp. 148 00:08:13,721 --> 00:08:16,881 Speaker 1: Anyway, they're sending the sill water, and of course the 149 00:08:16,881 --> 00:08:21,361 Speaker 1: bottom line is he escapes, Well, he walks away. He 150 00:08:21,441 --> 00:08:24,521 Speaker 1: teams up with a group of blokes, and I think 151 00:08:24,521 --> 00:08:27,521 Speaker 1: it was about six weeks later a Nuda Kobby ends 152 00:08:27,601 --> 00:08:30,521 Speaker 1: up in a rape and murdered in a paddock out 153 00:08:30,601 --> 00:08:34,441 Speaker 1: near Prospect. Yes, now I don't know whether they're guilty 154 00:08:34,481 --> 00:08:37,081 Speaker 1: or whether they're not guilty. All I'm saying is if 155 00:08:37,161 --> 00:08:40,681 Speaker 1: Murphy hadn't have been rewarded for being an informer, maybe 156 00:08:40,721 --> 00:08:42,361 Speaker 1: Anuda Koby would be alive. Today. 157 00:08:42,561 --> 00:08:46,281 Speaker 4: His face was burned into Australia's collective memory, and today 158 00:08:46,561 --> 00:08:50,241 Speaker 4: Anita Cobby's killer, Gary Murphy was seen in public for 159 00:08:50,281 --> 00:08:53,921 Speaker 4: the first time in thirty three years. He was one 160 00:08:53,961 --> 00:08:57,401 Speaker 4: of five men, including his brothers Michael and Les, jailed 161 00:08:57,401 --> 00:09:00,441 Speaker 4: for life for raping and killing the twenty six year 162 00:09:00,441 --> 00:09:02,001 Speaker 4: old beauty pageant queen. 163 00:09:03,001 --> 00:09:07,881 Speaker 1: And of course Toney. He went a bit tropo after 164 00:09:07,961 --> 00:09:10,641 Speaker 1: the tunnel came undone because a Toney was doing life too. 165 00:09:11,081 --> 00:09:15,321 Speaker 1: And the last I heard Towney escaped in nineteen I 166 00:09:15,321 --> 00:09:17,401 Speaker 1: think it was about nineteen ninety three, nineteen ninety four, 167 00:09:17,441 --> 00:09:21,081 Speaker 1: when he's never been found. If he's still out and about, 168 00:09:21,481 --> 00:09:22,321 Speaker 1: good luck to your son.