Speaker 1: I get a team. Welcome to another installment the show
Speaker 1: tif Any and Cook. We'll start with you.
Speaker 2: Hi, Hello, sir.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit late for you. It's twenty five
Speaker 1: to seven. Do you are you okay?
Speaker 2: Well, daylight savings, it feels real late. I'm not.
Speaker 3: I'm ready for bed when the sun goes down.
Speaker 1: What's your typical going to bedtime?
Speaker 2: I get like to hop into bed at nine and
Speaker 2: read a book.
Speaker 1: How many hours of sleep? Doctor Sam? Will come to
Speaker 1: you in a moment, apologies. How many hours of sleep
Speaker 1: do you get on average?
Speaker 3: I think that my average is around seven hours now
Speaker 3: or set might even be seven and a half. I've
Speaker 3: worked very hard on that. I'm trying to check my
Speaker 3: stats as we speak.
Speaker 1: And you're not hungry. I was worried that you would
Speaker 1: get on because it's twenty five to seven in the
Speaker 1: PM and you without food. You're not like my favorite
Speaker 1: you is not a hungry you. I'm going to be honest.
Speaker 3: You're not alone. You're not alone on a hungry Do.
Speaker 1: You get angry, doctor Sam?
Speaker 4: I do get hungry, and like I often refer to that,
Speaker 4: you know, with my friends, when it's getting to that time,
Speaker 4: I'm like we need to you know, we need to
Speaker 4: get to lunch now, Like I'm getting hungry, So it's
Speaker 4: definitely a thing for me.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's more of a girl thing than
Speaker 1: a guy, I think, because I don't. I don't think
Speaker 1: any of my mates get that. Maybe I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't really get it, Like I get hungry, but I'm like, ah,
Speaker 1: I can do kids get hungry? Do kids get cranky
Speaker 1: because they're not eating or they Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, And I think there's probably two parts.
Speaker 4: So well, obviously it's the being hungry and not knowing
Speaker 4: how long, you know, Like for us, we could go
Speaker 4: I'm hungry, but I'm going to go to the shops
Speaker 4: and I'll get it will be ready in five minutes.
Speaker 4: But for kids, they don't see that, So I think
Speaker 4: that's one part. But also the blood sugar levels too,
Speaker 4: Like if they're constantly sacking throughout the day, they're having
Speaker 4: just a lot of carbs without that protein and that
Speaker 4: fats you know, you get that boost of energy, but
Speaker 4: then you come crashing down And I feel like that's
Speaker 4: where the hangary in this comes from too.
Speaker 1: So do you when kids are grumpy or out of sorts?
Speaker 1: That's what Mary, that's what my mum calls children out
Speaker 1: of sorts, Like, oh, he was out of sorts? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what eighty five year old ladies say? Is it more
Speaker 1: often than not tiredness, hunger, or anxiety one of those three?
Speaker 1: Or is it something else?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: I think there's like always the combination of things, right,
Speaker 4: Like we can look at it from our basic needs
Speaker 4: of like, yeah, they tired, they're hungry, are they overstimulated?
Speaker 4: Are they understimulated? So there's all of those like kind
Speaker 4: of basic stuff. But then yeah, I mean they could
Speaker 4: be anxiety in a situation where they're feeling like they
Speaker 4: have to do it right, do it perfectly, they're scared
Speaker 4: about something. So I think there's almost a lot going
Speaker 4: on and it's hard for kids to articulate that as well.
Speaker 1: I've never asked you about this, I don't think. But
Speaker 1: tell me about I don't want to offend anyone, but
Speaker 1: tell me about clinging kids, like you know, like that
Speaker 1: the kid that just holds mum's leg. Mum walks and
Speaker 1: the kids hold like a little spider monkey holding the leg.
Speaker 1: Tell me about cleanness, how like how do you deal
Speaker 1: with that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's such a good one. So separation anxiety, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: so common in those for younger kids, and partly you know,
Speaker 4: there's it's really like it should be normalized in some ways.
Speaker 4: It's like yep, kids you know struggle to understand that
Speaker 4: separation if you can go but you can come back,
Speaker 4: and so then that's their I don't want you to go,
Speaker 4: and then they cling on, right. I think the problem
Speaker 4: becomes when we feel as adults that we can't then
Speaker 4: live our lives, so then it becomes a cycle.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: So for example, if you've got a mum and you've
Speaker 4: got a child going, I don't want you to go
Speaker 4: out with your friends. I missed you, and a mom
Speaker 4: then starts to feel guilty and she's like, oh, like
Speaker 4: my child really needs me, Like I shouldn't leave them.
Speaker 4: I don't want them to feel abandoned, So then they
Speaker 4: don't go. What ends up happening is that the mom
Speaker 4: then becomes obviously resentful naturally because she feels like I
Speaker 4: can't do anything without my child being upset, and then
Speaker 4: the child's like, but I just need you here, but
Speaker 4: they physically want the mom there, but the mum emotionally
Speaker 4: obviously can't be there. If she's having to be present
Speaker 4: twenty four seven, or the child is demanding so much
Speaker 4: of her.
Speaker 2: So what ends up happening.
Speaker 4: Is that the pair and then kind of gets a
Speaker 4: bit snarky and a bit annoyed with the child, and
Speaker 4: then the child wants someone even more because it's like,
Speaker 4: I know I need you, and I don't know, and
Speaker 4: I'm not getting this need met, So it becomes this
Speaker 4: perpetuating cycle. So I think I think the anxiety for
Speaker 4: child breths anxiety for parent, and so in order to break.
Speaker 2: That, we need to be like, of course you're upset
Speaker 2: that you needed me to leave.
Speaker 4: I miss you too, and I know that you miss me,
Speaker 4: but here's a boundary. I am going to leave and
Speaker 4: I'm going to come back. So what would you like
Speaker 4: to do when I come back? How can I reconnect?
Speaker 4: And so it's almost like teaching that child that cycle.
Speaker 4: If there is a rupture, so to speak, I'm having
Speaker 4: to leave you and you're really upset about that.
Speaker 2: But then we're going to repair when I get back.
Speaker 4: And so I think it's about us having that kind
Speaker 4: of confidence and that separation and going it's okay for
Speaker 4: my child to feel worried, but I need to be
Speaker 4: able to hold this boundary as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, otherwise the kids are kind of manipulating the parents, right, Well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no one really gets their needs met because then
Speaker 4: the child gets is like kind of cranky, annoyed parent
Speaker 4: that's like, oh, I'm like kind of I'm feeling really
Speaker 4: touched out right now, and you're overwhelming me and so.
Speaker 2: I'm not really giving you the best of me.
Speaker 4: And then the child then thinks it's obviously them and
Speaker 4: then they kind of seek that out more. So I
Speaker 4: don't really feel like that helps either one of them.
Speaker 4: I think it's much better for the mom to be like, okay,
Speaker 4: I still need to go, and then the child be upset,
Speaker 4: But then the mom fill up their caup and come
Speaker 4: back and be like, Okay, I'm really going to give
Speaker 4: you this quality time then yeah, in a way that
Speaker 4: you want and actually be present with that. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it's it's hard, but it becomes a cycle.
Speaker 1: One of my one of my friends or a couple,
Speaker 1: Nigel and Mary Jane, they own three childcare centers and
Speaker 1: so they have about forty forty five staff and I
Speaker 1: don't know a shitload of kids in those three centers,
Speaker 1: and I just think that is a hard job. Like
Speaker 1: they I mean, they love it, they're very good at it,
Speaker 1: they do very well, they're very popular, they've got a
Speaker 1: massive waiting list, all that stuff. But yeah, I just
Speaker 1: think that would be, you know, dealing with the hysterical
Speaker 1: kid that doesn't want mum or dad to leave. I
Speaker 1: guess generally mum, and then trying to what is the
Speaker 1: strategy when going to childcare or kinder or school for
Speaker 1: the first time when the little one kind of loses it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's such a good question because I used to
Speaker 4: wake in a child concentered too, And I think one
Speaker 4: of the worst things that we can do, which looks
Speaker 4: like it's the best in the short term, but the
Speaker 4: worst in the long term, is sneak out. So a
Speaker 4: lot of parents are like, my child gets so distressed
Speaker 4: if I say.
Speaker 2: Goodbye to them. So what I'm going to do is
Speaker 2: I'm going.
Speaker 4: To quickly sneak out, and they're just going to get
Speaker 4: distracted and have fun with their friends and then I'll
Speaker 4: be back and everything's fine. And I think what we
Speaker 4: do as adults is we're thinking what's the path of
Speaker 4: least resistance, which could be that, but then what ends
Speaker 4: up happening as a child gets even more anxious because
Speaker 4: they're like, every time I look away, you're gone, So
Speaker 4: how can I trust that you're not.
Speaker 2: Going to do that again? When are you going? When
Speaker 2: are you coming? When a you're going? It's just so confusing.
Speaker 4: It's much better is I think that prep work of
Speaker 4: playing around what you know, play boss, playing around that beforehand.
Speaker 4: If this is how it's going to go, I'm going
Speaker 4: to I'm going to be dropping you here, and I'm
Speaker 4: going to be leaving and it could be tough, and
Speaker 4: you're going to have your friends, and then I'm going
Speaker 4: to come back. And so the child understands the story,
Speaker 4: but then when the parents in that situation, they hold
Speaker 4: that space. So I've come here, I've helped you with
Speaker 4: your bag like I said it would, I've given you
Speaker 4: a hug and a kiss.
Speaker 2: But then I'm going to.
Speaker 4: Go and not making it a drawn out process and
Speaker 4: not making it a trying to plead and bargain with them,
Speaker 4: but I am going and kind of being able to
Speaker 4: say goodbye. And what ends up happening is, of course
Speaker 4: the child's going to be potentially upset, and that's okay,
Speaker 4: but then kind of coming back, and I think once
Speaker 4: we're able to, I guess feel that discomfort offere, they're
Speaker 4: going to be upset. I'm going to see that, but
Speaker 4: still not letting that guilt then cause us to do
Speaker 4: something different, right, which you stay plead, feeling really bad,
Speaker 4: maybe quitting, you know whatever. Else They can move through it,
Speaker 4: because it's okay to feel wirried at times, and you
Speaker 4: know what, you'd kind of prefer a child to do that,
Speaker 4: to be honest, then to be too scared to tell
Speaker 4: you that they are and sit with that and then
Speaker 4: that kind of bubble away. So I think, you know,
Speaker 4: the kids that are able to say no, I don't
Speaker 4: want you to go, that's a good thing. We don't
Speaker 4: want kids to put on a mask. We just want
Speaker 4: to be able to help them through that.
Speaker 1: If do you wish doctor Sam would talk a bit quicker.
Speaker 3: I listened to podcasts on one point five and she's
Speaker 3: already on point I'm down with this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't need to you don't need to listen.
Speaker 1: You probably need to wind it back to put out.
Speaker 4: What you're here for the too, right, that's what you're
Speaker 4: here for for it, you know, like being able to
Speaker 4: slow it down to the listeners.
Speaker 1: She doesn't slow it down. She said it about one
Speaker 1: point five. I reckon, I want to know about I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is the right term, but this
Speaker 1: is the Craig term incidental learning with little kids versus
Speaker 1: intentional learning teaching. Like, obviously, kids are from when they
Speaker 1: can fathom anything, right from when they can understand anything.
Speaker 1: Parents are teaching them stuff. But at what stage do
Speaker 1: you think you should start to consciously teach them things
Speaker 1: in a semi organized, structured way.
Speaker 4: I think that we should always be moving between the
Speaker 4: two of intentional and incidental. I don't think that each
Speaker 4: either one is better or worse. I think each situation
Speaker 4: calls for different ones. So is there a situation that
Speaker 4: you're thinking of in terms of what's better.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about like this guy that I
Speaker 1: know where I'm doing at UNI at Monash. He's got
Speaker 1: this little kid who's this I don't want to throw
Speaker 1: anyone under the bus, but he's this genius penist. He's
Speaker 1: like seven. He plays like fucking Mozart and like that
Speaker 1: kid's been playing since he was I think two. I
Speaker 1: mean he's a prodigy, Like he's been on TV all that, right, ridiculous. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But like I imagine he started to learn, like being taught
Speaker 1: reading music, understanding tempo notes, chords, like putting stuff together
Speaker 1: timing at about two or three yea. And you know,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have an opinion. I'm just curious
Speaker 1: around that. And I guess it's different for different people, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I guess it's different of how that started.
Speaker 4: You know, was it really parent led? Was it a
Speaker 4: child kind of showing an interest in something and so
Speaker 4: then we're just following that pace and then they ended
Speaker 4: up really liking it and you know, being so driven
Speaker 4: internally that you're kind of supporting that. Or was it really,
Speaker 4: like I said, parent led and then kind of pushing that?
Speaker 4: And I think it's so easy to look at that
Speaker 4: when you're looking at these examples of really talented kids
Speaker 4: and kids that are obviously above the rest of their peers,
Speaker 4: right with a certain skill. But I think when we
Speaker 4: look at success, it's not just that, it's looking at
Speaker 4: their mental health too, right, It's looking at everything and
Speaker 4: the whole picture.
Speaker 2: So you'll see that with like child actors.
Speaker 4: I mean, they do amazing, they're in shows, they're super famous,
Speaker 4: and then they get on the drugs and the alcohol,
Speaker 4: and they're numbing and they're really struggling in their life.
Speaker 4: So I think that's a tricky bit. I don't think that,
Speaker 4: like I said, it's one or the other. I think
Speaker 4: it's trying to get a live in both walls that
Speaker 4: you want to provide opportunities. You want to help kids
Speaker 4: get out of their comfort zone and guide them and
Speaker 4: be directive with that. But then you also want them
Speaker 4: to love learning and love what they're doing and have
Speaker 4: that passion and let that be internally driven. So how
Speaker 4: do we manage both? I think it's like a dance.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting, right because when you said that about
Speaker 1: child actors, and I know that some some went great,
Speaker 1: but this there's probably a disproportionate number of very very
Speaker 1: very famous children and it didn't go well for them
Speaker 1: over the long term as adults, you know. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's that kind of I mean, do kids feel
Speaker 1: this is I don't know if this is dumb question,
Speaker 1: but I know kids feel pressure. But you spoke before
Speaker 1: we started recording, you spoke about burnout, Like do kids
Speaker 1: get burnout?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it is different.
Speaker 1: Does that mean, like, how is that how's that different
Speaker 1: to adult burnout? If at all?
Speaker 2: That's a good point. So I guess with adult burnout.
Speaker 4: You know, where how do you see that someone's burnt out?
Speaker 2: Let's just say at work.
Speaker 4: They might lose their passion for things, right, They may
Speaker 4: feel like depressed, they may feel really stressed. They might
Speaker 4: have a bit of a breakdown, they may quit their job.
Speaker 4: With kids, they don't have as much control over their
Speaker 4: lives to be able to do that.
Speaker 2: So when a child's.
Speaker 4: Really at the tent, like at their end, you know,
Speaker 4: how would that show out? Probably behavior issues? Yeah, right,
Speaker 4: a lot of behavioral isshous defiance.
Speaker 2: Maybe you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I mean this is not a silly question. What do
Speaker 1: kids have to be burnt out? I like too much sand,
Speaker 1: pit time, too much monkey bars.
Speaker 4: I think it's the expectations, to be honest, when I
Speaker 4: when I hear a lot of parents and they're like, okay,
Speaker 4: so my kids to wake up at this time, and
Speaker 4: then they do this, and then they do that, and
Speaker 4: they come back from school and then pretty much every
Speaker 4: moment is.
Speaker 2: Scheduled until they go to bed.
Speaker 4: I couldn't operate like that, Like I'm not a robot,
Speaker 4: like I need space to do nothing. I need I
Speaker 4: need different rhythms. Right, some days do call for like
Speaker 4: productivity and like yeah, I'm on it, but other days
Speaker 4: really cool for just like I want to have fun
Speaker 4: and just be and have space to just like when
Speaker 4: I say play, I mean like have a little dance
Speaker 4: party with my kids, or just go down to the
Speaker 4: park and not have to worry about what how many
Speaker 4: to come back and I'll come.
Speaker 2: Back when I'm ready, you know, like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: So I think what we do again, with the best intentions,
Speaker 4: a lot of parents want to give their kids all
Speaker 4: the opportunities and everything that they didn't receive, but what
Speaker 4: ends up happening is they actually overscheduled to the point
Speaker 4: of it's really stressful and because it's coming from someone else.
Speaker 4: If you could imagine, you know, if I plan something
Speaker 4: for myself and I feel differently, I can then you
Speaker 4: know readjust kids don't get that opportunity if they're like
Speaker 4: to their parents, I don't feel like it the parents
Speaker 4: like now I scheduled this or where do you do this?
Speaker 4: So it is really hard. Yeah, I think that's where
Speaker 4: the bend that would come from. To be honest, overscheduling
Speaker 4: and expectations which are just not developmentally appropriate. Kids aren't,
Speaker 4: you know how they haven't got their brain completely you know,
Speaker 4: developed at such a young age, and so we have
Speaker 4: these expectations if you should be able to do this,
Speaker 4: I saw you do it yesterday, But they can't keep
Speaker 4: that up right twenty four to seven. Like, we've all
Speaker 4: got different sides of us. We have, you know, responsible sides,
Speaker 4: and we also have these other sides that we need
Speaker 4: to be playful and spontaneous, and kids are the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you ever see You probably don't because you're
Speaker 1: not really involved in sports so much. But like I've
Speaker 1: been around a lot of athletes, like even kids from
Speaker 1: ten through to obviously elite adult athletes. But it's interesting
Speaker 1: with kids in sport, how often, like I've often wondered,
Speaker 1: how much is this how much of this motivation and
Speaker 1: drive coming from the kid, and how much of it
Speaker 1: is coming from the parent, and how much of it
Speaker 1: is because the kid feels obligated or this is how
Speaker 1: the kid thinks she's going to please dad or mum
Speaker 1: or she's going to I feel like that with children
Speaker 1: in sport it can be precarious as well, because it's
Speaker 1: not because, like especially for elite children, Like one of
Speaker 1: my friends, their kid is in the Victorian bask A girl,
Speaker 1: young girl twelve, she's amazing though her name's doesn't matter
Speaker 1: Indie Indiana. So she's in the state basketball team and
Speaker 1: the state netball, state football team for girls and elite
Speaker 1: and probably going to be a professional athlete. But she
Speaker 1: trains like an adult, Like she has strength program, running program, skills, agility,
Speaker 1: football training, basketball training. I look at all that, I'm thinking, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is a lot for a kid. I mean, she's
Speaker 1: twelve and she's in the she's once say which school,
Speaker 1: but she's at a fancy school in Melbourne. She's in
Speaker 1: the senior basketball team. So she's in year seven. They're
Speaker 1: all in year twelve.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, there's this thirteen year old girl running around with
Speaker 1: seven and an eighteen year old girls. And I just think,
Speaker 1: you know, she seems to be doing great. Their parents
Speaker 1: are great. But for a lot of kids, that's not
Speaker 1: always the case, right.
Speaker 2: No, it's not.
Speaker 4: And like you said, where is it driven by? Because
Speaker 4: sometimes parents, you know, pick specific sports that they really
Speaker 4: love and they're like, I want my child to have
Speaker 4: that love for it.
Speaker 2: All. I wish I had this opportunity.
Speaker 4: So I feel like I've actually had whole opposite experiences
Speaker 4: with this as my own kids. You know, my son,
Speaker 4: you know, I got him into soccer fest. I had
Speaker 4: no idea if he would like it or not, and
Speaker 4: he really thrived with it and he loved it.
Speaker 2: And he's you know, winning awards.
Speaker 4: And he's you know, you know, in the top division
Speaker 4: and he's mean, he's ten, so it's still quite new
Speaker 4: for him, but it's very intently driven, you know, when
Speaker 4: I watch how he plays, even by himself, right, he
Speaker 4: really just enjoys the sport.
Speaker 2: And so that's really cool.
Speaker 4: Providing an opportunity for a child that wants to be
Speaker 4: there and wants to exceed on that. I tried to
Speaker 4: give the same opportunity for my daughter, and I mean
Speaker 4: it was it was a struggle to even get head
Speaker 4: to like stand on the field, you know. And I
Speaker 4: definitely felt that for my own, you know, because it
Speaker 4: was so easy with my son and terms of him
Speaker 4: just really thriving in that environment. With my daughter, I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, but it's it's soccer time, and again
Speaker 4: she didn't want to go, and then when she did,
Speaker 4: she didn't really want to participate, and I could feel
Speaker 4: that like, oh, okay, you know this is kind of
Speaker 4: where these parents feel this pressure because you're like, no,
Speaker 4: this is this.
Speaker 2: Is great, let's do that.
Speaker 4: And then you kind of have to step back and
Speaker 4: you're like, that's not their thing, and that's all right,
Speaker 4: what is her thing? You know, she loves us, So
Speaker 4: for me anyway, I think it's really important to notice
Speaker 4: our kids' strengths, not just strengths, but they interests, their curiosity,
Speaker 4: what captures their interests, you know, a little bit longer
Speaker 4: than the normal activities, and then let's hone in on
Speaker 4: that and give them different opportunities and also kind of
Speaker 4: support them and knowing that sometimes part of that is
Speaker 4: to feel uncomfortable and we kind of want to run
Speaker 4: away from it. But how do we hold that space
Speaker 4: where where like, when we do something new, it is uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: And I think that's why it's really important for parents
Speaker 4: to be doing that at the same time, so you'll
Speaker 4: notice the parents that are living through their kids and
Speaker 4: that's why there is so much pressure. And then you'll
Speaker 4: notice the parents that are actually achieving their own goals
Speaker 4: and they're going through their own path of doing their
Speaker 4: own hobbies and they're like, I want my child to
Speaker 4: experience there, so they're sharing it with them. It's very different.
Speaker 4: It's not a pressure. It's more like, yeah, like a journey.
Speaker 4: They're both on that journey together.
Speaker 1: It must be very hard for a parent, I reckon.
Speaker 1: I'm not a parent, so this is a hypothesis. But
Speaker 1: you know, if you're really good at something, or you're
Speaker 1: into something, you're into you know, you're a musician, or
Speaker 1: you're a whatever, you're an athlete or and you know
Speaker 1: that your kid could be good too, and you you're
Speaker 1: passionate and you want them to share your passion, but
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, to not like to have enough
Speaker 1: awareness to not impose that on them when they show
Speaker 1: no interest in the thing that you're interested in exactly.
Speaker 4: And this is why I think it is so important
Speaker 4: that we really have our own stuff and we're working
Speaker 4: on our own goals, because then we will look at
Speaker 4: it that like I talk. I think about this in
Speaker 4: one of the other podcasts where I left school at
Speaker 4: an early age, and you know, I thought that was
Speaker 4: like a bit of an unfinished business for me, and
Speaker 4: I think if I didn't go back to university and
Speaker 4: I didn't obviously complete my studies, I would have naturally
Speaker 4: put pressure on my kids because I would have been
Speaker 4: like I didn't have a parent that really was supporting me.
Speaker 4: But here I am supporting you guys, and I'll give
Speaker 4: you anything. What do you need to succeed versus now
Speaker 4: I'm doing that and I've realized, you know, studying is
Speaker 4: such a hard path and it's got to be internally driven.
Speaker 2: So I can step back.
Speaker 4: I can be there to support them, but I know
Speaker 4: that that's their journey, and what's more important is probably
Speaker 4: them getting something that they're really interested and they're passionate about, right,
Speaker 4: And then I'm there to support that, not lead it,
Speaker 4: and not drive it because it can't be driven externally.
Speaker 4: Like that's never going to be the way that we
Speaker 4: should be supporting our kids.
Speaker 2: It has to be. Yeah, And I.
Speaker 1: Guess one of the challenges with this, I feel like
Speaker 1: we live in a very externally focused world. Like when
Speaker 1: we talk about success, yeah, like, oh, isn't he doing great?
Speaker 1: Isn't she doing great? She's getting amazing marks. He's in
Speaker 1: the football team, or she's in the football team, he's
Speaker 1: getting amazing marks. Whatever, you know, We never look at
Speaker 1: kids and go or isn't she doing great? She's content?
Speaker 1: Isn't he doing great? He's got no anxiety? Like It's
Speaker 1: always about stuff that we can obviously see. It's about achievements,
Speaker 1: it's about performance, it's about gold, it's about appearance, it's
Speaker 1: about outcomes. It's like nobody looks at somebody across the
Speaker 1: bar or wherever it goes. Wow, look at her. She
Speaker 1: seems like she's really in a good place, emotionally well done,
Speaker 1: like nobody.
Speaker 4: That's so true. That's very true. I imagine in the
Speaker 4: precious parents to keep one with well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I reckon. We've all grown up in a
Speaker 1: model that says that success is about outcomes and things
Speaker 1: and stuff that people can see, you know. And so
Speaker 1: when your kid knows, well, if I'm prettier, or I'm faster,
Speaker 1: or I'm stronger, or I'm smarter or I'm whatever, then
Speaker 1: that gives me social currency. Then you know, of course
Speaker 1: they're going to strive for that perhaps or feel terrible
Speaker 1: if they're not that.
Speaker 2: This is a really good example.
Speaker 4: So we have this thing at my children's school, and
Speaker 4: it's like a reading based kind of challenge program. So
Speaker 4: you read a certain amount of books, and then you know,
Speaker 4: you get like a stick air and then you get
Speaker 4: like a badge, and then everyone who's read like twenty
Speaker 4: five books has a twenty five badge.
Speaker 2: You know that kind of program.
Speaker 4: Now you can see how socially it's important, right if
Speaker 4: kids really want to be a part of that. And
Speaker 4: I ask my kids, is this something that you really want?
Speaker 4: You really want to get that badge?
Speaker 2: And they don't.
Speaker 4: And so then for me as a parent, now you
Speaker 4: could go two ways with that. You could be like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is you know, something that the school's driven, and
Speaker 4: I really need to do it, and we need to
Speaker 4: get that because all the other kids will be getting that,
Speaker 4: and I need to look like a good parent and
Speaker 4: you need to be able to achieve this. Or I
Speaker 4: could kind of take a step back and going before
Speaker 4: they had this program and before my kids went to school.
Speaker 4: I just think reading's great in general, and I would
Speaker 4: do that anyway with my kids. And I have a
Speaker 4: lot of books and my kids have a lot of
Speaker 4: that as well, and I just want to cultivate that
Speaker 4: to just normalize that without the you get a badge
Speaker 4: because you've wrote twenty five books, like I don't really
Speaker 4: know how many books I've read.
Speaker 2: And to be honest, it's not really important.
Speaker 4: We could sit on a book one for one page
Speaker 4: for twenty minutes, or we could breeze through a couple
Speaker 4: in ten, you know, like it's me if for me,
Speaker 4: it's about the experience of it. I'm not trying to
Speaker 4: rush through books just to tick a box. I would
Speaker 4: like to talk about it if they want to, and
Speaker 4: you know, imagine things and all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: So that was something I decided to opt out of.
Speaker 4: So it's things like that, I think, where you know,
Speaker 4: you can put an external prize on it, but then
Speaker 4: choosing to be like, yeah, I don't really want to
Speaker 4: do that because this is just a value of mine
Speaker 4: and I just want to normalize that. So I think
Speaker 4: there are that we can kind of mute out the
Speaker 4: noise and not.
Speaker 2: Fall into that trap if yeah, making it always about
Speaker 2: like what's the reward?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I was very proud of Tiff recently because
Speaker 1: she got her twenty five book Badge. I mean, she
Speaker 1: started when she was seven, so it's taken a while.
Speaker 4: But to be honest, I don't really think I could
Speaker 4: get that because I'm just like chronically never finishing books.
Speaker 4: Like I'll get a book and I'll read the chapters
Speaker 4: that I like, and then I'll move on to the next.
Speaker 2: So I don't sit there and read one from start
Speaker 2: to finish, like I actually don't.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, it would be hypocritical of me to expect
Speaker 4: my childhood they didn't really want to.
Speaker 1: My reading days of books, like physical hard copy books,
Speaker 1: I think they're almost over, although maybe I'm just going
Speaker 1: like I've read in Inverted Coomma's nine books in about
Speaker 1: the last three months, but they're all audible.
Speaker 4: Okay, you didn't really read them. Then you listen to
Speaker 4: the books.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's people say red but yeah, I agree
Speaker 1: with you. It's definitely not reading. So I've got a
Speaker 1: couple of specific questions. How old are your kids again?
Speaker 1: I know you've told me I forget.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so my sounder ten ten and my daughter will
Speaker 4: ten eight in a few months.
Speaker 1: So now we've covered this a little bit. But as
Speaker 1: somebody who is a therapist in the child's psychology behavior space,
Speaker 1: what's your personal philosophy. I'm not talking about what you
Speaker 1: recommend or what you teach, but what's your approach to
Speaker 1: your kids? And social media and what you're thinking. Not
Speaker 1: as a therapist, but well you can't as a therapist second,
Speaker 1: but a mum first.
Speaker 2: Really good point. I haven't.
Speaker 4: I mean, my kids, you know, have iPads, but they
Speaker 4: don't have mobile phones and they're not really on any
Speaker 4: of the social media, so I haven't really had to
Speaker 4: I haven't had to.
Speaker 2: Deal with that yet.
Speaker 4: But I I think the way that I would do
Speaker 4: it is knowing that these things exist, right, and how
Speaker 4: do we navigate that? Because the more that you say
Speaker 4: no to something completely, the more they're going to want
Speaker 4: to do it. So I think it's probably important to
Speaker 4: have these conversations right, understand what they want out of it,
Speaker 4: and probably that visibility and that transparency. But I think
Speaker 4: we do live in a day and age where social
Speaker 4: media is a thing, So I think I'd much more
Speaker 4: want to be on board with that and showing them
Speaker 4: how to use it in healthy ways when it comes
Speaker 4: to that, rather than demonize it. And I think that's
Speaker 4: the same to be honest with screen time. Like we
Speaker 4: can sit here and demonize screen time, but the reality
Speaker 4: is I was doing a PhD in another state, I
Speaker 4: was working in another state, I was learning in another
Speaker 4: states all things that I was only able to access
Speaker 4: because of the power of the computer, or even say
Speaker 4: social media. I mean, we're having this conversation because of
Speaker 4: social media. So I much like to talk and I
Speaker 4: already do this without them having it talking about the
Speaker 4: power of social media, like they know that my business
Speaker 4: is on social media, they know that, you know, they
Speaker 4: can search up my name and find me kind of situation.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm definitely already starting to talk to them
Speaker 4: about chat, GPT and using these tools, but in probably
Speaker 4: in better ways.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, do you use.
Speaker 1: Just speaking of that, do you in your work? Do
Speaker 1: you use AI, chat, JPT and the like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I use it in general for like not just brainstorming,
Speaker 4: but I think kind of like brainstorming like a bit
Speaker 4: of a conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I like to to you.
Speaker 4: Know, frame it in ways, ask them to you know,
Speaker 4: compare different let's just say, compare different theories, you know,
Speaker 4: dop point things like that kind of stuff. I don't
Speaker 4: use it in terms of writing or my voice, but
Speaker 4: I definitely use it as a bit of a research tool. Sorry,
Speaker 4: So I might ask it for recent research on a
Speaker 4: certain topic, or I might, yeah, use it in that way,
Speaker 4: and I think I think it can be really powerful
Speaker 4: to be honest chat GBT if we are using it
Speaker 4: in the right ways. Yeah, yeah, more for brainstorming a situation.
Speaker 2: Do you use that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean I can't use it in
Speaker 1: my research of course, because it's it's all.
Speaker 4: The PhD of course. Yeah, that's sorry. Yeah, disclaimer around that.
Speaker 4: Of course, if you're doing a study, you can't do it.
Speaker 4: But I mean just in terms for the everyday person
Speaker 4: when we're looking at researching, what's even researching like buying
Speaker 4: a product? You know, it's really good to be able
Speaker 4: to like what do you think are these two things?
Speaker 1: It's great you actually can use AI, but it depends
Speaker 1: how so yes, Like for example, mine is a research PhD,
Speaker 1: so you've got to you know, run interpret data them.
Speaker 1: But I might write something or I might I can
Speaker 1: put actually in an entire academic paper from a journal
Speaker 1: and put it into Claude, which is an academic more
Speaker 1: academic AI tool. Yeah, and so give me a two
Speaker 1: hundred word synopsis of this, okay.
Speaker 4: So could you use it for your that crown stuff
Speaker 4: of going? Can you find me similar studies in the
Speaker 4: last ten years?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: You can't use it to write your papers, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4: I even have got my like my kids or my daughter,
Speaker 4: for example, asked me a question about space. It was
Speaker 4: like a black hole thing and I didn't really know
Speaker 4: about it at all, and I asked, chactually be ten.
Speaker 4: It was a really complicated answer, and then I said,
Speaker 4: could you please explain that two a seven year old?
Speaker 2: And they came up with a really good thing.
Speaker 4: So it stuff like that I think can be really
Speaker 4: useful one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, and I love it when you know,
Speaker 1: even you could like say, you're trying to teach your
Speaker 1: kids a lesson about I don't know whatever, like self
Speaker 1: awareness or whatever. Right, yeah, you can ask you can
Speaker 1: ask it to write a story that explains self awareness
Speaker 1: and self regulation and you know, suitable for a seven
Speaker 1: to ten year old or it does, and it's like
Speaker 1: it subtly kind of blinds these reasonably complicated constructs in
Speaker 1: a way that kids can understand where they are. Oh,
Speaker 1: I get that, I get that. Ye, I mean, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, people, I think with a lot of things,
Speaker 1: we're digressing a little bit. But I just think that
Speaker 1: with all of the resources and tools that we've got
Speaker 1: available tools. It's like, I don't think social media is
Speaker 1: good or bad. I think people use it poorly and
Speaker 1: people use it well. I think people share hate and
Speaker 1: people share love. It's like, you know, social media itself
Speaker 1: is just a tool. AI is just a tool, agreed.
Speaker 1: You can use it, you cannot use it. You can
Speaker 1: pay attention, you cannot pay attention. But I think it's
Speaker 1: like most things anyway, is it depends what you do
Speaker 1: with that. It depends how you use that.
Speaker 4: You know differently, and as part of I think just
Speaker 4: human nature, Like it's even with screen time or your phones, right,
Speaker 4: You're going to notice maybe times in your life where
Speaker 4: you're using it a bit more than you want and
Speaker 4: then you have to kind of read just and then
Speaker 4: maybe you feel like you're not using it as much
Speaker 4: as you.
Speaker 2: Could and you want to, like you know, learn online
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 4: So I just think there's always going to be this
Speaker 4: relationship with it and what we want, I think from
Speaker 4: a young age to start those conversations with the kids
Speaker 4: so that they.
Speaker 2: Can self adjust. Like we're all trying to navigate this.
Speaker 4: I haven't got a perfect either, and I would definitely
Speaker 4: be telling my kids out like we're all learning what
Speaker 4: works for us, what.
Speaker 1: Doesn't the idea that social media is evil or AI
Speaker 1: is evil, or it's like, well, it's not going anywhere
Speaker 1: for a start, so you probably want to get used
Speaker 1: to it, especially AI. Yeah, and you know that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that it's it's you know, it's more about, as
Speaker 1: you said, our relationship with it, how we behave around it,
Speaker 1: what we do with it. Yeah, how much we allow
Speaker 1: it to hijack our brain for our lives.
Speaker 4: How much is it impacting our lives so impacting us
Speaker 4: from things that we really want to do. So you're right,
Speaker 4: it's like that self reflective kind of questions that we
Speaker 4: can continue to ask ourselves around it. But it's not
Speaker 4: inherent evil, And you're right, So I think it's good to.
Speaker 1: Get on board a hunda, a hundo. So I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you something which we haven't touched on before.
Speaker 1: I don't think do you talk to the kids that
Speaker 1: you work with and the parents of the kids and
Speaker 1: your kids, do you talk about bullying?
Speaker 2: Yeah? See, this is a really good one.
Speaker 4: So I noticed for schools, right, they had this like
Speaker 4: zero bullying policy, And I've never really agreed with that
Speaker 4: because what it kind of does that it demonizes like bullying,
Speaker 4: to like these are you know, people are bullying and
Speaker 4: these are bullies and these are not, and we just
Speaker 4: have no tolerance versus Look at a workplace, there's always
Speaker 4: going to be those.
Speaker 2: Kind of behaviors.
Speaker 4: I think it's more important to not label people as
Speaker 4: bullies or not, but rather understand really the root of
Speaker 4: those kind of behaviors and how we can manage it better. Right,
Speaker 4: how we can put boundaries in white does that? So
Speaker 4: I talk to kids a lot about our brains. So
Speaker 4: when our brain, you know, there's that part of our
Speaker 4: brain that's a bit like a guard dog, and we
Speaker 4: perceive danger.
Speaker 2: Because we perceive danger, we want to.
Speaker 4: Fight back, or we want to run away, or we
Speaker 4: freeze that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: I think that the more that they can understand that,
Speaker 4: and the more we can talk about these boundaries and
Speaker 4: what we can kind of do when we're in those situations,
Speaker 4: the more we're equipping them to actually deal with it
Speaker 4: when they're in the workplace or you know, with adults.
Speaker 4: So I think we're all capable of using those kind
Speaker 4: of behaviors, but we're also capable of not and so
Speaker 4: I really like to separate the person from the behavior
Speaker 4: and understand that these behaviors are often coming from a
Speaker 4: place of protection or safety or not feeling safe. And
Speaker 4: you know how we can, yeah, understand why we do
Speaker 4: what we do right and put things in place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to go yeah.
Speaker 2: But really, well, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: But there are bully in school, so yeah, and of course,
Speaker 1: like let's not unfairly label anyone, and we're just talking.
Speaker 5: Home, there's bullying in school, you mean, yeah, I mean
Speaker 5: I was talking to a very well known Australian you're
Speaker 5: both off air today, and her daughter.
Speaker 1: Has been horribly I mean the shit that this girl's
Speaker 1: been subjected to horrendous, to the point where she had
Speaker 1: to leave the school that she was in. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and I mean legit bullying, horrible, horrible, terrible behavior and
Speaker 1: like in that case, and I know that's not most people,
Speaker 1: and that's not most cases, but that exists. And I
Speaker 1: don't know whether or not it's getting more airtime Sam
Speaker 1: and Tif or whether or not it's it's always been there,
Speaker 1: but just we haven't spoken about it as much. But
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yah, I mean, and that this is the hardest bit
Speaker 4: because when we see that kind of behavior, right, and
Speaker 4: we see like a clear imbalance where someone is really
Speaker 4: bullying the other, and we have so much emphasy for
Speaker 4: that person who's getting.
Speaker 2: Bullied, you're going to kind of think of the bully.
Speaker 4: You're like, someone's really going to be hurting to be
Speaker 4: able to project that like her. People hurt people, and
Speaker 4: so you kind of think of in nat child's life,
Speaker 4: where are they getting bullied, you know, or what's happening
Speaker 4: for them to feel the need to do that. So
Speaker 4: it is really hard, I think, because I think often
Speaker 4: school deals with it in a really like yep, this
Speaker 4: is a consequence of your behavior, and it's kind of
Speaker 4: the external stuff.
Speaker 2: But we're still seeing this problem, So what are we missing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's hard because at the same like I
Speaker 1: agree with you, I feel like you're right, well, absolutely right.
Speaker 1: Hurt people do hurt people, and understanding where this is
Speaker 1: coming from matters. But when you're getting kids who are
Speaker 1: more vulnerable getting like threatened, like threatened by kids who
Speaker 1: are bigger and stronger, and I fucking hate all that stuff. Now,
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, like, of course we can't. You know,
Speaker 1: the bullies are people too, of course, and we can't,
Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about ten or twelve or fourteen
Speaker 1: year olds. It's very it's very complicated. It's very socially, emotionally,
Speaker 1: intellectually complicated. I don't think there's an easy or a
Speaker 1: quick answer, but yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 2: Certainly it's really complex.
Speaker 1: Well it's not going away either, it seems.
Speaker 4: And like you said, though, like kids deserve to feel
Speaker 4: safe at school, and no one can learn when you're
Speaker 4: not feeling safe, Like these kids that are getting bullied.
Speaker 4: You know, if they're constantly fearing for getting hurt or
Speaker 4: you know that their safety, then they're not going to
Speaker 4: really be able to take in what they need to
Speaker 4: and then there's going to be gaps in their learning.
Speaker 2: So I think it's difficult. But then you've got these.
Speaker 4: Public schools that actually can't expel kids and they need
Speaker 4: to obviously every kid deserves an education. So how do
Speaker 4: they put these boundaries in place where we're trying to
Speaker 4: minimize the harm?
Speaker 1: Yeah, all round, super complicated, and I mean extremely Like
Speaker 1: this terrible not long ago, a week or two, maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit more in Melbourne, this young girl took
Speaker 1: her own life a thirteen year old girl because of bullying,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm like, I understand what you're saying,
Speaker 1: but part of me is like, fuck the bullies. It's
Speaker 1: I know that's not an answer, and that's just being reactive.
Speaker 1: But of course I have this protective gene and I
Speaker 1: don't like adult bullies. I don't like kid bullies. I
Speaker 1: just don't like bullies, and I probably need to be Definitely,
Speaker 1: don't put me in charge because I won't create good outcomes.
Speaker 4: No, I'm agreeing with what you're saying. You know, when
Speaker 4: you look at like how you know, targeted, some of
Speaker 4: these behaviors are, it's so triggering, and that's exactly what
Speaker 4: you do.
Speaker 2: You're like, I want to protect this person.
Speaker 4: But then it's hard because if we kind of switched
Speaker 4: over to the bully and we probably looked at their
Speaker 4: history or their childhood or when they were younger, they
Speaker 4: probably have had experiences of being bullied, and then you'd
Speaker 4: want to protect them, right, and then we keep going down.
Speaker 1: So I agree, I agree, it's it's it's all right,
Speaker 1: let's finish on something a little bit more hopefully relevant
Speaker 1: for the average tips getting depressed over there.
Speaker 3: I'm angry and depressed. Now lift it up, please.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you're not a fan. You and I
Speaker 1: are not fans of bullies, are we, tiff?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: No, So I want to talk about praising kids. I
Speaker 1: want to know how much is enough and how much
Speaker 1: is like is there a point that's too much? Doctor Sam?
Speaker 1: Where you know we say to everything they do, oh,
Speaker 1: you're incredible, you're beautiful, that's amazing, when you know it's
Speaker 1: not always amazing, Like, is there too much?
Speaker 4: I think so because you think about it, like, you know,
Speaker 4: kids end up picking up on the tone and how
Speaker 4: it can kind of come across as fake and in
Speaker 4: genuine when you're like, oh my god, that is incredible,
Speaker 4: and imagine that response for every single thing kid's going
Speaker 4: to kind of like everything will then just be treated
Speaker 4: the same. So I think it is important to be
Speaker 4: more I guess, genuine with maybe the comments that we're saying,
Speaker 4: but it also keep switching it up, you know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, of course you want to be.
Speaker 4: Like home like that's like, that's great, and you know,
Speaker 4: talk about I know, the specific bit of a painting
Speaker 4: that you love, But other times you might want to
Speaker 4: check in with how they feel and maybe not just
Speaker 4: jump to like overly praising it too, So I think
Speaker 4: it's just trying to be a bit more genuine. It's great,
Speaker 4: positive reinforcement is amazing, but I think at the same
Speaker 4: time you also want kids to not just seek that
Speaker 4: out and also think about how do they feel about it,
Speaker 4: Like how do they feel about the effort right that
Speaker 4: they put in, or how do they feel about what
Speaker 4: they've created, or what do they like about it? So
Speaker 4: always having that balance, if letting them know they feel
Speaker 4: the support from us and all of that, but also
Speaker 4: they can hear their own voice too.
Speaker 1: I have this little video in my head of a
Speaker 1: six year old, you know, taking a picture that they've
Speaker 1: just torn up to dad, and Dad looks at it
Speaker 1: and goes, well, that's shit. Try better or try harder
Speaker 1: to do better. You know. It's like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: And I think also when you're when you're telling them
Speaker 1: that every thing that they're doing is amazing and brilliant
Speaker 1: and the best and fantastic, then you're creating a precedent
Speaker 1: that's probably not healthy because when you don't do that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like you're giving them all the dopamine
Speaker 1: all the time, or all the praise or all the whatever,
Speaker 1: and then it's yeah, it's it doesn't They don't have
Speaker 1: the same experience anymore because they get desensitized because it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what they do, they get praise and accolades exactly.
Speaker 2: So that's what it doesn't come across as genuine, does it? Then?
Speaker 4: Like would you want a friend like that? Then no
Speaker 4: matter what you do, it's like just that one response,
Speaker 4: that one it's amazing and you're like, Okay, do you
Speaker 4: really feel that way?
Speaker 2: Think so. I think the more that we can kind
Speaker 2: of humanize that out of it, the better.
Speaker 1: All Right. My last question is this, and it's quite
Speaker 1: a deep one or I don't even know. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you have an idea around this. I don't know what
Speaker 1: my idea is. But like one of the things that
Speaker 1: I talk about with grown ups a lot in this
Speaker 1: philos topical, psychological, you know, kind of self awareness space
Speaker 1: is around identity who we are and who we think
Speaker 1: we are and who others think we are. And in
Speaker 1: the middle of all of the shit that I'm not
Speaker 1: my job, I'm not my money, I'm not my body,
Speaker 1: I'm not my brand, Like who am I? The identity piece?
Speaker 1: When do kids start to think about or have an
Speaker 1: awareness of their identity. Is this or is that something
Speaker 1: that happens in teenage years.
Speaker 4: So there's probably definitely different schools of thoughts on this,
Speaker 4: but kids go through different developmental Like there's one kind
Speaker 4: of school of thought where they go through developmental crisises,
Speaker 4: you know, at certain stages. So kids will go through,
Speaker 4: say when they're toddlers, right of having this autonomy and independence,
Speaker 4: but then also like kind of like and that's why
Speaker 4: they like, I want to do it my way, you know,
Speaker 4: but they're also trying to go like you're having to.
Speaker 2: Take the power, so they're kind of in that balance.
Speaker 4: And so for kids in school years, it's more about
Speaker 4: the confidence like can I do this here? Know, when
Speaker 4: they're looking at the achievement side of things. And then
Speaker 4: usually it's the adolescence, which is the identity who am I?
Speaker 4: Where do I belong in this world? So in that way,
Speaker 4: that's usually the crisis of that developmental stage.
Speaker 2: It's usually adolescents, but.
Speaker 4: Kids start that from the get go, right when they're younger,
Speaker 4: like they are looking at their place in the world
Speaker 4: and you know, they're noticing similarities between their parents and
Speaker 4: that they are the peers and what.
Speaker 2: They like to do.
Speaker 4: So I think we should always be conscious of that
Speaker 4: if you know, they're figuring out their identity. But it
Speaker 4: usually becomes a bit of a crisis for them when
Speaker 4: they're in adolescents.
Speaker 1: Is there a problem? Maybe this was just where I
Speaker 1: grew up, but a lot of the little girls were
Speaker 1: told constantly how beautiful they are, how pretty they are.
Speaker 1: It was all about how they looked, ye, not how
Speaker 1: smart they were or not how good they were at
Speaker 1: maths or Yeah. There was a lot of emphasis on
Speaker 1: appearance and a lot of praise or appearance, it seems like.
Speaker 1: And then so maybe am I correct in assuming that
Speaker 1: they might then identify who they are with what they
Speaker 1: look like.
Speaker 4: Definitely be cause if you think about childhood, it's like survival,
Speaker 4: you know, in their mind of how do I get
Speaker 4: and how do I get love?
Speaker 2: How do I receive love?
Speaker 4: So kids notice from a very young age, Okay, when
Speaker 4: I act in this way, I get a lot of love,
Speaker 4: and when I don't, I don't really And so then
Speaker 4: they kind of mold themselves.
Speaker 2: So for kids, yeah, they're getting praise when they look so.
Speaker 4: Beautiful and they're so pretty, and how you do your
Speaker 4: hair and how you wear that.
Speaker 2: What are they going to do? It's survival, It's a
Speaker 2: pattern they learn.
Speaker 4: So they end up really focusing on that because that's
Speaker 4: how they get love and that's how they felt the most,
Speaker 4: you know, safe and accepted.
Speaker 1: So what's the solution or the antidote to that as
Speaker 1: us go on?
Speaker 4: So as be as they balance it out really, you know,
Speaker 4: making note of being able to notice those different things
Speaker 4: about your child, you know, what makes them them, and
Speaker 4: being able to identify that. I love how you like
Speaker 4: you know again, the things that we might be a
Speaker 4: bit annoidered with as parents. A lot of parents like
Speaker 4: they just want to do it their way.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: I love that you. You know, you advocate for yourself.
Speaker 4: You know exactly what you want and you want to tell.
Speaker 2: Me about it. You know, you want to make sure
Speaker 2: that fighting for yourself. That's great. I like that about you.
Speaker 4: Like being able to actually talk about the different attributes
Speaker 4: so that we're not just based on the physical stuff.
Speaker 4: We are looking at what makes them them and we're
Speaker 4: pointing that out for them and then you know, leaving
Speaker 4: that open for them to like what do you like
Speaker 4: about you? Like asking those kind of questions as well,
Speaker 4: to see what they notice other than just the looks
Speaker 4: with your pearance stuff.
Speaker 1: That's why we have you, because you're the smartypants. You're
Speaker 1: the smartypants. Hey, how do people find you? Doctor Sam?
Speaker 1: Where are you at? Website and socials and all of
Speaker 1: that stuff?
Speaker 4: Yep, you can find me on Instagram at doctor Samcasey
Speaker 4: or my website at www dot dotor samcc dot com.
Speaker 1: And where can people find you? Tiff down at Albert
Speaker 1: Parkbeach or.
Speaker 3: In all the places hYP in their bamboo out their
Speaker 3: back window.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and tifcock dot com.
Speaker 1: Tiffcook dot com. Perfect. I will say goodbye a fair
Speaker 1: but Dr Sam thanks love it and brilliant as always
Speaker 2: Thanks very much for having me on here, Craig