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Speaker 1: I get a team. Welcome to another installment the show

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Speaker 1: tif Any and Cook. We'll start with you.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Hello, sir.

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Speaker 1: It's a little bit late for you. It's twenty five

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Speaker 1: to seven. Do you are you okay?

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Speaker 2: Well, daylight savings, it feels real late. I'm not.

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Speaker 3: I'm ready for bed when the sun goes down.

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Speaker 1: What's your typical going to bedtime?

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Speaker 2: I get like to hop into bed at nine and

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Speaker 2: read a book.

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Speaker 1: How many hours of sleep? Doctor Sam? Will come to

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Speaker 1: you in a moment, apologies. How many hours of sleep

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Speaker 1: do you get on average?

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Speaker 3: I think that my average is around seven hours now

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Speaker 3: or set might even be seven and a half. I've

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Speaker 3: worked very hard on that. I'm trying to check my

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Speaker 3: stats as we speak.

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Speaker 1: And you're not hungry. I was worried that you would

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Speaker 1: get on because it's twenty five to seven in the

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Speaker 1: PM and you without food. You're not like my favorite

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Speaker 1: you is not a hungry you. I'm going to be honest.

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Speaker 3: You're not alone. You're not alone on a hungry Do.

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Speaker 1: You get angry, doctor Sam?

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Speaker 4: I do get hungry, and like I often refer to that,

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Speaker 4: you know, with my friends, when it's getting to that time,

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Speaker 4: I'm like we need to you know, we need to

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Speaker 4: get to lunch now, Like I'm getting hungry, So it's

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Speaker 4: definitely a thing for me.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's more of a girl thing than

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Speaker 1: a guy, I think, because I don't. I don't think

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Speaker 1: any of my mates get that. Maybe I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't really get it, Like I get hungry, but I'm like, ah,

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Speaker 1: I can do kids get hungry? Do kids get cranky

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Speaker 1: because they're not eating or they Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, And I think there's probably two parts.

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Speaker 4: So well, obviously it's the being hungry and not knowing

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Speaker 4: how long, you know, Like for us, we could go

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Speaker 4: I'm hungry, but I'm going to go to the shops

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Speaker 4: and I'll get it will be ready in five minutes.

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Speaker 4: But for kids, they don't see that, So I think

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Speaker 4: that's one part. But also the blood sugar levels too,

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Speaker 4: Like if they're constantly sacking throughout the day, they're having

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Speaker 4: just a lot of carbs without that protein and that

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Speaker 4: fats you know, you get that boost of energy, but

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Speaker 4: then you come crashing down And I feel like that's

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Speaker 4: where the hangary in this comes from too.

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Speaker 1: So do you when kids are grumpy or out of sorts?

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Speaker 1: That's what Mary, that's what my mum calls children out

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Speaker 1: of sorts, Like, oh, he was out of sorts? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what eighty five year old ladies say? Is it more

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Speaker 1: often than not tiredness, hunger, or anxiety one of those three?

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Speaker 1: Or is it something else?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 4: I think there's like always the combination of things, right,

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Speaker 4: Like we can look at it from our basic needs

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Speaker 4: of like, yeah, they tired, they're hungry, are they overstimulated?

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Speaker 4: Are they understimulated? So there's all of those like kind

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Speaker 4: of basic stuff. But then yeah, I mean they could

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Speaker 4: be anxiety in a situation where they're feeling like they

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Speaker 4: have to do it right, do it perfectly, they're scared

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Speaker 4: about something. So I think there's almost a lot going

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Speaker 4: on and it's hard for kids to articulate that as well.

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Speaker 1: I've never asked you about this, I don't think. But

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Speaker 1: tell me about I don't want to offend anyone, but

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Speaker 1: tell me about clinging kids, like you know, like that

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Speaker 1: the kid that just holds mum's leg. Mum walks and

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Speaker 1: the kids hold like a little spider monkey holding the leg.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about cleanness, how like how do you deal

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Speaker 1: with that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's such a good one. So separation anxiety, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: so common in those for younger kids, and partly you know,

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Speaker 4: there's it's really like it should be normalized in some ways.

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Speaker 4: It's like yep, kids you know struggle to understand that

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Speaker 4: separation if you can go but you can come back,

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Speaker 4: and so then that's their I don't want you to go,

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Speaker 4: and then they cling on, right. I think the problem

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Speaker 4: becomes when we feel as adults that we can't then

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Speaker 4: live our lives, so then it becomes a cycle.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: So for example, if you've got a mum and you've

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Speaker 4: got a child going, I don't want you to go

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Speaker 4: out with your friends. I missed you, and a mom

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Speaker 4: then starts to feel guilty and she's like, oh, like

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Speaker 4: my child really needs me, Like I shouldn't leave them.

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Speaker 4: I don't want them to feel abandoned, So then they

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Speaker 4: don't go. What ends up happening is that the mom

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Speaker 4: then becomes obviously resentful naturally because she feels like I

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Speaker 4: can't do anything without my child being upset, and then

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Speaker 4: the child's like, but I just need you here, but

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Speaker 4: they physically want the mom there, but the mum emotionally

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Speaker 4: obviously can't be there. If she's having to be present

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Speaker 4: twenty four seven, or the child is demanding so much

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Speaker 4: of her.

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Speaker 2: So what ends up happening.

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Speaker 4: Is that the pair and then kind of gets a

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Speaker 4: bit snarky and a bit annoyed with the child, and

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Speaker 4: then the child wants someone even more because it's like,

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Speaker 4: I know I need you, and I don't know, and

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Speaker 4: I'm not getting this need met, So it becomes this

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Speaker 4: perpetuating cycle. So I think I think the anxiety for

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Speaker 4: child breths anxiety for parent, and so in order to break.

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Speaker 2: That, we need to be like, of course you're upset

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Speaker 2: that you needed me to leave.

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Speaker 4: I miss you too, and I know that you miss me,

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Speaker 4: but here's a boundary. I am going to leave and

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Speaker 4: I'm going to come back. So what would you like

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Speaker 4: to do when I come back? How can I reconnect?

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Speaker 4: And so it's almost like teaching that child that cycle.

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Speaker 4: If there is a rupture, so to speak, I'm having

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Speaker 4: to leave you and you're really upset about that.

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Speaker 2: But then we're going to repair when I get back.

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Speaker 4: And so I think it's about us having that kind

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Speaker 4: of confidence and that separation and going it's okay for

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Speaker 4: my child to feel worried, but I need to be

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Speaker 4: able to hold this boundary as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, otherwise the kids are kind of manipulating the parents, right, Well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no one really gets their needs met because then

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Speaker 4: the child gets is like kind of cranky, annoyed parent

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Speaker 4: that's like, oh, I'm like kind of I'm feeling really

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Speaker 4: touched out right now, and you're overwhelming me and so.

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Speaker 2: I'm not really giving you the best of me.

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Speaker 4: And then the child then thinks it's obviously them and

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Speaker 4: then they kind of seek that out more. So I

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Speaker 4: don't really feel like that helps either one of them.

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Speaker 4: I think it's much better for the mom to be like, okay,

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Speaker 4: I still need to go, and then the child be upset,

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Speaker 4: But then the mom fill up their caup and come

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Speaker 4: back and be like, Okay, I'm really going to give

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Speaker 4: you this quality time then yeah, in a way that

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Speaker 4: you want and actually be present with that. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's it's hard, but it becomes a cycle.

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Speaker 1: One of my one of my friends or a couple,

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Speaker 1: Nigel and Mary Jane, they own three childcare centers and

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Speaker 1: so they have about forty forty five staff and I

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Speaker 1: don't know a shitload of kids in those three centers,

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Speaker 1: and I just think that is a hard job. Like

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Speaker 1: they I mean, they love it, they're very good at it,

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Speaker 1: they do very well, they're very popular, they've got a

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Speaker 1: massive waiting list, all that stuff. But yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: think that would be, you know, dealing with the hysterical

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Speaker 1: kid that doesn't want mum or dad to leave. I

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Speaker 1: guess generally mum, and then trying to what is the

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Speaker 1: strategy when going to childcare or kinder or school for

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Speaker 1: the first time when the little one kind of loses it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's such a good question because I used to

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Speaker 4: wake in a child concentered too, And I think one

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Speaker 4: of the worst things that we can do, which looks

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Speaker 4: like it's the best in the short term, but the

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Speaker 4: worst in the long term, is sneak out. So a

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Speaker 4: lot of parents are like, my child gets so distressed

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Speaker 4: if I say.

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Speaker 2: Goodbye to them. So what I'm going to do is

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Speaker 2: I'm going.

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Speaker 4: To quickly sneak out, and they're just going to get

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Speaker 4: distracted and have fun with their friends and then I'll

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Speaker 4: be back and everything's fine. And I think what we

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Speaker 4: do as adults is we're thinking what's the path of

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Speaker 4: least resistance, which could be that, but then what ends

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Speaker 4: up happening as a child gets even more anxious because

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Speaker 4: they're like, every time I look away, you're gone, So

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Speaker 4: how can I trust that you're not.

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Speaker 2: Going to do that again? When are you going? When

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Speaker 2: are you coming? When a you're going? It's just so confusing.

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Speaker 4: It's much better is I think that prep work of

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Speaker 4: playing around what you know, play boss, playing around that beforehand.

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Speaker 4: If this is how it's going to go, I'm going

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Speaker 4: to I'm going to be dropping you here, and I'm

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Speaker 4: going to be leaving and it could be tough, and

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Speaker 4: you're going to have your friends, and then I'm going

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Speaker 4: to come back. And so the child understands the story,

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Speaker 4: but then when the parents in that situation, they hold

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Speaker 4: that space. So I've come here, I've helped you with

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Speaker 4: your bag like I said it would, I've given you

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Speaker 4: a hug and a kiss.

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Speaker 2: But then I'm going to.

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Speaker 4: Go and not making it a drawn out process and

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Speaker 4: not making it a trying to plead and bargain with them,

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Speaker 4: but I am going and kind of being able to

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Speaker 4: say goodbye. And what ends up happening is, of course

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Speaker 4: the child's going to be potentially upset, and that's okay,

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Speaker 4: but then kind of coming back, and I think once

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Speaker 4: we're able to, I guess feel that discomfort offere, they're

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Speaker 4: going to be upset. I'm going to see that, but

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Speaker 4: still not letting that guilt then cause us to do

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Speaker 4: something different, right, which you stay plead, feeling really bad,

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Speaker 4: maybe quitting, you know whatever. Else They can move through it,

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Speaker 4: because it's okay to feel wirried at times, and you

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Speaker 4: know what, you'd kind of prefer a child to do that,

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Speaker 4: to be honest, then to be too scared to tell

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Speaker 4: you that they are and sit with that and then

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Speaker 4: that kind of bubble away. So I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: the kids that are able to say no, I don't

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Speaker 4: want you to go, that's a good thing. We don't

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Speaker 4: want kids to put on a mask. We just want

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Speaker 4: to be able to help them through that.

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Speaker 1: If do you wish doctor Sam would talk a bit quicker.

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Speaker 3: I listened to podcasts on one point five and she's

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Speaker 3: already on point I'm down with this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't need to you don't need to listen.

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Speaker 1: You probably need to wind it back to put out.

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Speaker 4: What you're here for the too, right, that's what you're

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Speaker 4: here for for it, you know, like being able to

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Speaker 4: slow it down to the listeners.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't slow it down. She said it about one

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Speaker 1: point five. I reckon, I want to know about I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this is the right term, but this

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Speaker 1: is the Craig term incidental learning with little kids versus

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Speaker 1: intentional learning teaching. Like, obviously, kids are from when they

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Speaker 1: can fathom anything, right from when they can understand anything.

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Speaker 1: Parents are teaching them stuff. But at what stage do

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Speaker 1: you think you should start to consciously teach them things

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Speaker 1: in a semi organized, structured way.

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Speaker 4: I think that we should always be moving between the

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Speaker 4: two of intentional and incidental. I don't think that each

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Speaker 4: either one is better or worse. I think each situation

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Speaker 4: calls for different ones. So is there a situation that

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Speaker 4: you're thinking of in terms of what's better.

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about like this guy that I

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Speaker 1: know where I'm doing at UNI at Monash. He's got

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Speaker 1: this little kid who's this I don't want to throw

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Speaker 1: anyone under the bus, but he's this genius penist. He's

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Speaker 1: like seven. He plays like fucking Mozart and like that

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Speaker 1: kid's been playing since he was I think two. I

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Speaker 1: mean he's a prodigy, Like he's been on TV all that, right, ridiculous. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But like I imagine he started to learn, like being taught

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Speaker 1: reading music, understanding tempo notes, chords, like putting stuff together

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Speaker 1: timing at about two or three yea. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't have an opinion. I'm just curious

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Speaker 1: around that. And I guess it's different for different people, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I guess it's different of how that started.

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Speaker 4: You know, was it really parent led? Was it a

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Speaker 4: child kind of showing an interest in something and so

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Speaker 4: then we're just following that pace and then they ended

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Speaker 4: up really liking it and you know, being so driven

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Speaker 4: internally that you're kind of supporting that. Or was it really,

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Speaker 4: like I said, parent led and then kind of pushing that?

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Speaker 4: And I think it's so easy to look at that

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Speaker 4: when you're looking at these examples of really talented kids

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Speaker 4: and kids that are obviously above the rest of their peers,

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Speaker 4: right with a certain skill. But I think when we

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Speaker 4: look at success, it's not just that, it's looking at

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Speaker 4: their mental health too, right, It's looking at everything and

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Speaker 4: the whole picture.

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Speaker 2: So you'll see that with like child actors.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they do amazing, they're in shows, they're super famous,

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Speaker 4: and then they get on the drugs and the alcohol,

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Speaker 4: and they're numbing and they're really struggling in their life.

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Speaker 4: So I think that's a tricky bit. I don't think that,

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Speaker 4: like I said, it's one or the other. I think

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Speaker 4: it's trying to get a live in both walls that

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Speaker 4: you want to provide opportunities. You want to help kids

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Speaker 4: get out of their comfort zone and guide them and

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Speaker 4: be directive with that. But then you also want them

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Speaker 4: to love learning and love what they're doing and have

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Speaker 4: that passion and let that be internally driven. So how

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Speaker 4: do we manage both? I think it's like a dance.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting, right because when you said that about

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Speaker 1: child actors, and I know that some some went great,

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Speaker 1: but this there's probably a disproportionate number of very very

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Speaker 1: very famous children and it didn't go well for them

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Speaker 1: over the long term as adults, you know. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's that kind of I mean, do kids feel

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Speaker 1: this is I don't know if this is dumb question,

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Speaker 1: but I know kids feel pressure. But you spoke before

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Speaker 1: we started recording, you spoke about burnout, Like do kids

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Speaker 1: get burnout?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it is different.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean, like, how is that how's that different

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Speaker 1: to adult burnout? If at all?

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Speaker 2: That's a good point. So I guess with adult burnout.

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Speaker 4: You know, where how do you see that someone's burnt out?

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Speaker 2: Let's just say at work.

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Speaker 4: They might lose their passion for things, right, They may

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Speaker 4: feel like depressed, they may feel really stressed. They might

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Speaker 4: have a bit of a breakdown, they may quit their job.

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Speaker 4: With kids, they don't have as much control over their

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Speaker 4: lives to be able to do that.

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Speaker 2: So when a child's.

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Speaker 4: Really at the tent, like at their end, you know,

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Speaker 4: how would that show out? Probably behavior issues? Yeah, right,

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Speaker 4: a lot of behavioral isshous defiance.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I mean this is not a silly question. What do

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Speaker 1: kids have to be burnt out? I like too much sand,

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Speaker 1: pit time, too much monkey bars.

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Speaker 4: I think it's the expectations, to be honest, when I

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Speaker 4: when I hear a lot of parents and they're like, okay,

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Speaker 4: so my kids to wake up at this time, and

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Speaker 4: then they do this, and then they do that, and

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Speaker 4: they come back from school and then pretty much every

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Speaker 4: moment is.

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Speaker 2: Scheduled until they go to bed.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't operate like that, Like I'm not a robot,

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Speaker 4: like I need space to do nothing. I need I

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Speaker 4: need different rhythms. Right, some days do call for like

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Speaker 4: productivity and like yeah, I'm on it, but other days

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Speaker 4: really cool for just like I want to have fun

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Speaker 4: and just be and have space to just like when

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Speaker 4: I say play, I mean like have a little dance

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Speaker 4: party with my kids, or just go down to the

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Speaker 4: park and not have to worry about what how many

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Speaker 4: to come back and I'll come.

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Speaker 2: Back when I'm ready, you know, like that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: So I think what we do again, with the best intentions,

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Speaker 4: a lot of parents want to give their kids all

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Speaker 4: the opportunities and everything that they didn't receive, but what

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Speaker 4: ends up happening is they actually overscheduled to the point

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Speaker 4: of it's really stressful and because it's coming from someone else.

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Speaker 4: If you could imagine, you know, if I plan something

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Speaker 4: for myself and I feel differently, I can then you

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Speaker 4: know readjust kids don't get that opportunity if they're like

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Speaker 4: to their parents, I don't feel like it the parents

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Speaker 4: like now I scheduled this or where do you do this?

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Speaker 4: So it is really hard. Yeah, I think that's where

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Speaker 4: the bend that would come from. To be honest, overscheduling

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Speaker 4: and expectations which are just not developmentally appropriate. Kids aren't,

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Speaker 4: you know how they haven't got their brain completely you know,

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Speaker 4: developed at such a young age, and so we have

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Speaker 4: these expectations if you should be able to do this,

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Speaker 4: I saw you do it yesterday, But they can't keep

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Speaker 4: that up right twenty four to seven. Like, we've all

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Speaker 4: got different sides of us. We have, you know, responsible sides,

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Speaker 4: and we also have these other sides that we need

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Speaker 4: to be playful and spontaneous, and kids are the same.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you ever see You probably don't because you're

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Speaker 1: not really involved in sports so much. But like I've

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Speaker 1: been around a lot of athletes, like even kids from

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Speaker 1: ten through to obviously elite adult athletes. But it's interesting

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Speaker 1: with kids in sport, how often, like I've often wondered,

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Speaker 1: how much is this how much of this motivation and

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Speaker 1: drive coming from the kid, and how much of it

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Speaker 1: is coming from the parent, and how much of it

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Speaker 1: is because the kid feels obligated or this is how

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Speaker 1: the kid thinks she's going to please dad or mum

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Speaker 1: or she's going to I feel like that with children

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Speaker 1: in sport it can be precarious as well, because it's

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Speaker 1: not because, like especially for elite children, Like one of

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Speaker 1: my friends, their kid is in the Victorian bask A girl,

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Speaker 1: young girl twelve, she's amazing though her name's doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: Indie Indiana. So she's in the state basketball team and

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Speaker 1: the state netball, state football team for girls and elite

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Speaker 1: and probably going to be a professional athlete. But she

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Speaker 1: trains like an adult, Like she has strength program, running program, skills, agility,

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Speaker 1: football training, basketball training. I look at all that, I'm thinking, Wow,

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Speaker 1: this is a lot for a kid. I mean, she's

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Speaker 1: twelve and she's in the she's once say which school,

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Speaker 1: but she's at a fancy school in Melbourne. She's in

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Speaker 1: the senior basketball team. So she's in year seven. They're

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Speaker 1: all in year twelve.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow, there's this thirteen year old girl running around with

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Speaker 1: seven and an eighteen year old girls. And I just think,

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Speaker 1: you know, she seems to be doing great. Their parents

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Speaker 1: are great. But for a lot of kids, that's not

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Speaker 1: always the case, right.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not.

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Speaker 4: And like you said, where is it driven by? Because

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Speaker 4: sometimes parents, you know, pick specific sports that they really

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Speaker 4: love and they're like, I want my child to have

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Speaker 4: that love for it.

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Speaker 2: All. I wish I had this opportunity.

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Speaker 4: So I feel like I've actually had whole opposite experiences

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Speaker 4: with this as my own kids. You know, my son,

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Speaker 4: you know, I got him into soccer fest. I had

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Speaker 4: no idea if he would like it or not, and

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Speaker 4: he really thrived with it and he loved it.

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Speaker 2: And he's you know, winning awards.

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Speaker 4: And he's you know, you know, in the top division

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Speaker 4: and he's mean, he's ten, so it's still quite new

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Speaker 4: for him, but it's very intently driven, you know, when

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Speaker 4: I watch how he plays, even by himself, right, he

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Speaker 4: really just enjoys the sport.

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Speaker 2: And so that's really cool.

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Speaker 4: Providing an opportunity for a child that wants to be

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Speaker 4: there and wants to exceed on that. I tried to

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Speaker 4: give the same opportunity for my daughter, and I mean

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Speaker 4: it was it was a struggle to even get head

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Speaker 4: to like stand on the field, you know. And I

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Speaker 4: definitely felt that for my own, you know, because it

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Speaker 4: was so easy with my son and terms of him

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Speaker 4: just really thriving in that environment. With my daughter, I

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Speaker 4: was like, oh, but it's it's soccer time, and again

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Speaker 4: she didn't want to go, and then when she did,

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Speaker 4: she didn't really want to participate, and I could feel

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Speaker 4: that like, oh, okay, you know this is kind of

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Speaker 4: where these parents feel this pressure because you're like, no,

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Speaker 4: this is this.

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Speaker 2: Is great, let's do that.

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Speaker 4: And then you kind of have to step back and

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Speaker 4: you're like, that's not their thing, and that's all right,

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Speaker 4: what is her thing? You know, she loves us, So

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Speaker 4: for me anyway, I think it's really important to notice

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Speaker 4: our kids' strengths, not just strengths, but they interests, their curiosity,

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Speaker 4: what captures their interests, you know, a little bit longer

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Speaker 4: than the normal activities, and then let's hone in on

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Speaker 4: that and give them different opportunities and also kind of

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Speaker 4: support them and knowing that sometimes part of that is

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Speaker 4: to feel uncomfortable and we kind of want to run

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Speaker 4: away from it. But how do we hold that space

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Speaker 4: where where like, when we do something new, it is uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's why it's really important for parents

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Speaker 4: to be doing that at the same time, so you'll

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Speaker 4: notice the parents that are living through their kids and

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Speaker 4: that's why there is so much pressure. And then you'll

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Speaker 4: notice the parents that are actually achieving their own goals

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Speaker 4: and they're going through their own path of doing their

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Speaker 4: own hobbies and they're like, I want my child to

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Speaker 4: experience there, so they're sharing it with them. It's very different.

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Speaker 4: It's not a pressure. It's more like, yeah, like a journey.

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Speaker 4: They're both on that journey together.

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Speaker 1: It must be very hard for a parent, I reckon.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a parent, so this is a hypothesis. But

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're really good at something, or you're

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Speaker 1: into something, you're into you know, you're a musician, or

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Speaker 1: you're a whatever, you're an athlete or and you know

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Speaker 1: that your kid could be good too, and you you're

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Speaker 1: passionate and you want them to share your passion, but

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Speaker 1: they don't, you know, to not like to have enough

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Speaker 1: awareness to not impose that on them when they show

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Speaker 1: no interest in the thing that you're interested in exactly.

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Speaker 4: And this is why I think it is so important

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Speaker 4: that we really have our own stuff and we're working

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Speaker 4: on our own goals, because then we will look at

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Speaker 4: it that like I talk. I think about this in

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Speaker 4: one of the other podcasts where I left school at

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Speaker 4: an early age, and you know, I thought that was

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Speaker 4: like a bit of an unfinished business for me, and

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Speaker 4: I think if I didn't go back to university and

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Speaker 4: I didn't obviously complete my studies, I would have naturally

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Speaker 4: put pressure on my kids because I would have been

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Speaker 4: like I didn't have a parent that really was supporting me.

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Speaker 4: But here I am supporting you guys, and I'll give

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00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 4: you anything. What do you need to succeed versus now

435
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,439
Speaker 4: I'm doing that and I've realized, you know, studying is

436
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 4: such a hard path and it's got to be internally driven.

437
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 2: So I can step back.

438
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 4: I can be there to support them, but I know

439
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 4: that that's their journey, and what's more important is probably

440
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,640
Speaker 4: them getting something that they're really interested and they're passionate about, right,

441
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 4: And then I'm there to support that, not lead it,

442
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,160
Speaker 4: and not drive it because it can't be driven externally.

443
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 4: Like that's never going to be the way that we

444
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 4: should be supporting our kids.

445
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 2: It has to be. Yeah, And I.

446
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 1: Guess one of the challenges with this, I feel like

447
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 1: we live in a very externally focused world. Like when

448
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: we talk about success, yeah, like, oh, isn't he doing great?

449
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,479
Speaker 1: Isn't she doing great? She's getting amazing marks. He's in

450
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 1: the football team, or she's in the football team, he's

451
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 1: getting amazing marks. Whatever, you know, We never look at

452
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: kids and go or isn't she doing great? She's content?

453
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: Isn't he doing great? He's got no anxiety? Like It's

454
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 1: always about stuff that we can obviously see. It's about achievements,

455
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: it's about performance, it's about gold, it's about appearance, it's

456
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: about outcomes. It's like nobody looks at somebody across the

457
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,639
Speaker 1: bar or wherever it goes. Wow, look at her. She

458
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 1: seems like she's really in a good place, emotionally well done,

459
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: like nobody.

460
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 4: That's so true. That's very true. I imagine in the

461
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 4: precious parents to keep one with well.

462
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I reckon. We've all grown up in a

463
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 1: model that says that success is about outcomes and things

464
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: and stuff that people can see, you know. And so

465
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: when your kid knows, well, if I'm prettier, or I'm faster,

466
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: or I'm stronger, or I'm smarter or I'm whatever, then

467
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: that gives me social currency. Then you know, of course

468
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: they're going to strive for that perhaps or feel terrible

469
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: if they're not that.

470
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 2: This is a really good example.

471
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 4: So we have this thing at my children's school, and

472
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 4: it's like a reading based kind of challenge program. So

473
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 4: you read a certain amount of books, and then you know,

474
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 4: you get like a stick air and then you get

475
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 4: like a badge, and then everyone who's read like twenty

476
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 4: five books has a twenty five badge.

477
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: You know that kind of program.

478
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,479
Speaker 4: Now you can see how socially it's important, right if

479
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 4: kids really want to be a part of that. And

480
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 4: I ask my kids, is this something that you really want?

481
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 4: You really want to get that badge?

482
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: And they don't.

483
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 4: And so then for me as a parent, now you

484
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 4: could go two ways with that. You could be like, oh,

485
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 4: this is you know, something that the school's driven, and

486
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 4: I really need to do it, and we need to

487
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 4: get that because all the other kids will be getting that,

488
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 4: and I need to look like a good parent and

489
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 4: you need to be able to achieve this. Or I

490
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,719
Speaker 4: could kind of take a step back and going before

491
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 4: they had this program and before my kids went to school.

492
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 4: I just think reading's great in general, and I would

493
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 4: do that anyway with my kids. And I have a

494
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 4: lot of books and my kids have a lot of

495
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 4: that as well, and I just want to cultivate that

496
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 4: to just normalize that without the you get a badge

497
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 4: because you've wrote twenty five books, like I don't really

498
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 4: know how many books I've read.

499
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 2: And to be honest, it's not really important.

500
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 4: We could sit on a book one for one page

501
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 4: for twenty minutes, or we could breeze through a couple

502
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 4: in ten, you know, like it's me if for me,

503
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 4: it's about the experience of it. I'm not trying to

504
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 4: rush through books just to tick a box. I would

505
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 4: like to talk about it if they want to, and

506
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 4: you know, imagine things and all of that kind of stuff.

507
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 4: So that was something I decided to opt out of.

508
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 4: So it's things like that, I think, where you know,

509
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 4: you can put an external prize on it, but then

510
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 4: choosing to be like, yeah, I don't really want to

511
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 4: do that because this is just a value of mine

512
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 4: and I just want to normalize that. So I think

513
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 4: there are that we can kind of mute out the

514
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 4: noise and not.

515
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: Fall into that trap if yeah, making it always about

516
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 2: like what's the reward?

517
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I was very proud of Tiff recently because

518
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: she got her twenty five book Badge. I mean, she

519
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: started when she was seven, so it's taken a while.

520
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 4: But to be honest, I don't really think I could

521
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 4: get that because I'm just like chronically never finishing books.

522
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 4: Like I'll get a book and I'll read the chapters

523
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 4: that I like, and then I'll move on to the next.

524
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: So I don't sit there and read one from start

525
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 2: to finish, like I actually don't.

526
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 4: So, yeah, it would be hypocritical of me to expect

527
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 4: my childhood they didn't really want to.

528
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: My reading days of books, like physical hard copy books,

529
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: I think they're almost over, although maybe I'm just going

530
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: like I've read in Inverted Coomma's nine books in about

531
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: the last three months, but they're all audible.

532
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 4: Okay, you didn't really read them. Then you listen to

533
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 4: the books.

534
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's people say red but yeah, I agree

535
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: with you. It's definitely not reading. So I've got a

536
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: couple of specific questions. How old are your kids again?

537
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: I know you've told me I forget.

538
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, so my sounder ten ten and my daughter will

539
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 4: ten eight in a few months.

540
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: So now we've covered this a little bit. But as

541
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: somebody who is a therapist in the child's psychology behavior space,

542
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: what's your personal philosophy. I'm not talking about what you

543
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: recommend or what you teach, but what's your approach to

544
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: your kids? And social media and what you're thinking. Not

545
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: as a therapist, but well you can't as a therapist second,

546
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: but a mum first.

547
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: Really good point. I haven't.

548
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 4: I mean, my kids, you know, have iPads, but they

549
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 4: don't have mobile phones and they're not really on any

550
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 4: of the social media, so I haven't really had to

551
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 4: I haven't had to.

552
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: Deal with that yet.

553
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 4: But I I think the way that I would do

554
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 4: it is knowing that these things exist, right, and how

555
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 4: do we navigate that? Because the more that you say

556
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 4: no to something completely, the more they're going to want

557
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 4: to do it. So I think it's probably important to

558
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 4: have these conversations right, understand what they want out of it,

559
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 4: and probably that visibility and that transparency. But I think

560
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 4: we do live in a day and age where social

561
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 4: media is a thing, So I think I'd much more

562
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 4: want to be on board with that and showing them

563
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 4: how to use it in healthy ways when it comes

564
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 4: to that, rather than demonize it. And I think that's

565
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 4: the same to be honest with screen time. Like we

566
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 4: can sit here and demonize screen time, but the reality

567
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 4: is I was doing a PhD in another state, I

568
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 4: was working in another state, I was learning in another

569
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 4: states all things that I was only able to access

570
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 4: because of the power of the computer, or even say

571
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 4: social media. I mean, we're having this conversation because of

572
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 4: social media. So I much like to talk and I

573
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 4: already do this without them having it talking about the

574
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 4: power of social media, like they know that my business

575
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 4: is on social media, they know that, you know, they

576
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 4: can search up my name and find me kind of situation.

577
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm definitely already starting to talk to them

578
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 4: about chat, GPT and using these tools, but in probably

579
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: in better ways.

580
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, do you use.

581
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: Just speaking of that, do you in your work? Do

582
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: you use AI, chat, JPT and the like.

583
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I use it in general for like not just brainstorming,

584
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: but I think kind of like brainstorming like a bit

585
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 4: of a conversation.

586
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I like to to you.

587
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 4: Know, frame it in ways, ask them to you know,

588
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 4: compare different let's just say, compare different theories, you know,

589
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 4: dop point things like that kind of stuff. I don't

590
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 4: use it in terms of writing or my voice, but

591
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 4: I definitely use it as a bit of a research tool. Sorry,

592
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 4: So I might ask it for recent research on a

593
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 4: certain topic, or I might, yeah, use it in that way,

594
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 4: and I think I think it can be really powerful

595
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 4: to be honest chat GBT if we are using it

596
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 4: in the right ways. Yeah, yeah, more for brainstorming a situation.

597
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: Do you use that?

598
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean I can't use it in

599
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: my research of course, because it's it's all.

600
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: The PhD of course. Yeah, that's sorry. Yeah, disclaimer around that.

601
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 4: Of course, if you're doing a study, you can't do it.

602
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 4: But I mean just in terms for the everyday person

603
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 4: when we're looking at researching, what's even researching like buying

604
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 4: a product? You know, it's really good to be able

605
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 4: to like what do you think are these two things?

606
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: It's great you actually can use AI, but it depends

607
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: how so yes, Like for example, mine is a research PhD,

608
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: so you've got to you know, run interpret data them.

609
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: But I might write something or I might I can

610
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: put actually in an entire academic paper from a journal

611
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: and put it into Claude, which is an academic more

612
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: academic AI tool. Yeah, and so give me a two

613
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: hundred word synopsis of this, okay.

614
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 4: So could you use it for your that crown stuff

615
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 4: of going? Can you find me similar studies in the

616
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 4: last ten years?

617
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: Yep?

618
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: You can't use it to write your papers, yeah, you know,

619
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: but yeah, definitely.

620
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 4: I even have got my like my kids or my daughter,

621
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 4: for example, asked me a question about space. It was

622
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 4: like a black hole thing and I didn't really know

623
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 4: about it at all, and I asked, chactually be ten.

624
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: It was a really complicated answer, and then I said,

625
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 4: could you please explain that two a seven year old?

626
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: And they came up with a really good thing.

627
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 4: So it stuff like that I think can be really

628
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 4: useful one hundred percent.

629
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, and I love it when you know,

630
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: even you could like say, you're trying to teach your

631
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: kids a lesson about I don't know whatever, like self

632
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: awareness or whatever. Right, yeah, you can ask you can

633
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: ask it to write a story that explains self awareness

634
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: and self regulation and you know, suitable for a seven

635
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: to ten year old or it does, and it's like

636
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: it subtly kind of blinds these reasonably complicated constructs in

637
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: a way that kids can understand where they are. Oh,

638
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: I get that, I get that. Ye, I mean, I think,

639
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, people, I think with a lot of things,

640
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: we're digressing a little bit. But I just think that

641
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: with all of the resources and tools that we've got

642
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: available tools. It's like, I don't think social media is

643
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: good or bad. I think people use it poorly and

644
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: people use it well. I think people share hate and

645
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: people share love. It's like, you know, social media itself

646
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: is just a tool. AI is just a tool, agreed.

647
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: You can use it, you cannot use it. You can

648
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: pay attention, you cannot pay attention. But I think it's

649
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: like most things anyway, is it depends what you do

650
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: with that. It depends how you use that.

651
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 4: You know differently, and as part of I think just

652
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 4: human nature, Like it's even with screen time or your phones, right,

653
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 4: You're going to notice maybe times in your life where

654
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 4: you're using it a bit more than you want and

655
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 4: then you have to kind of read just and then

656
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 4: maybe you feel like you're not using it as much

657
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 4: as you.

658
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: Could and you want to, like you know, learn online

659
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: or something.

660
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,239
Speaker 4: So I just think there's always going to be this

661
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 4: relationship with it and what we want, I think from

662
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 4: a young age to start those conversations with the kids

663
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 4: so that they.

664
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: Can self adjust. Like we're all trying to navigate this.

665
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 4: I haven't got a perfect either, and I would definitely

666
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 4: be telling my kids out like we're all learning what

667
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: works for us, what.

668
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: Doesn't the idea that social media is evil or AI

669
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: is evil, or it's like, well, it's not going anywhere

670
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: for a start, so you probably want to get used

671
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: to it, especially AI. Yeah, and you know that doesn't

672
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: mean that it's it's you know, it's more about, as

673
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: you said, our relationship with it, how we behave around it,

674
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: what we do with it. Yeah, how much we allow

675
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: it to hijack our brain for our lives.

676
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 4: How much is it impacting our lives so impacting us

677
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: from things that we really want to do. So you're right,

678
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: it's like that self reflective kind of questions that we

679
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 4: can continue to ask ourselves around it. But it's not

680
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 4: inherent evil, And you're right, So I think it's good to.

681
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: Get on board a hunda, a hundo. So I wanted

682
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: to ask you something which we haven't touched on before.

683
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: I don't think do you talk to the kids that

684
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: you work with and the parents of the kids and

685
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: your kids, do you talk about bullying?

686
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? See, this is a really good one.

687
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 4: So I noticed for schools, right, they had this like

688
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 4: zero bullying policy, And I've never really agreed with that

689
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 4: because what it kind of does that it demonizes like bullying,

690
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 4: to like these are you know, people are bullying and

691
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 4: these are bullies and these are not, and we just

692
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 4: have no tolerance versus Look at a workplace, there's always

693
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 4: going to be those.

694
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: Kind of behaviors.

695
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 4: I think it's more important to not label people as

696
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 4: bullies or not, but rather understand really the root of

697
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 4: those kind of behaviors and how we can manage it better. Right,

698
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 4: how we can put boundaries in white does that? So

699
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 4: I talk to kids a lot about our brains. So

700
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 4: when our brain, you know, there's that part of our

701
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 4: brain that's a bit like a guard dog, and we

702
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: perceive danger.

703
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: Because we perceive danger, we want to.

704
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: Fight back, or we want to run away, or we

705
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 4: freeze that kind of stuff.

706
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 3: Right.

707
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 4: I think that the more that they can understand that,

708
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 4: and the more we can talk about these boundaries and

709
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: what we can kind of do when we're in those situations,

710
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 4: the more we're equipping them to actually deal with it

711
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 4: when they're in the workplace or you know, with adults.

712
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 4: So I think we're all capable of using those kind

713
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: of behaviors, but we're also capable of not and so

714
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 4: I really like to separate the person from the behavior

715
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 4: and understand that these behaviors are often coming from a

716
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 4: place of protection or safety or not feeling safe. And

717
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 4: you know how we can, yeah, understand why we do

718
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 4: what we do right and put things in place.

719
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to go yeah.

720
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: But really, well, I agree with you.

721
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: But there are bully in school, so yeah, and of course,

722
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: like let's not unfairly label anyone, and we're just talking.

723
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 5: Home, there's bullying in school, you mean, yeah, I mean

724
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,239
Speaker 5: I was talking to a very well known Australian you're

725
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 5: both off air today, and her daughter.

726
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: Has been horribly I mean the shit that this girl's

727
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: been subjected to horrendous, to the point where she had

728
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: to leave the school that she was in. Yeah, right,

729
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: and I mean legit bullying, horrible, horrible, terrible behavior and

730
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: like in that case, and I know that's not most people,

731
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: and that's not most cases, but that exists. And I

732
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: don't know whether or not it's getting more airtime Sam

733
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: and Tif or whether or not it's it's always been there,

734
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: but just we haven't spoken about it as much. But

735
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: I don't know.

736
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 4: Yah, I mean, and that this is the hardest bit

737
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 4: because when we see that kind of behavior, right, and

738
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 4: we see like a clear imbalance where someone is really

739
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 4: bullying the other, and we have so much emphasy for

740
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 4: that person who's getting.

741
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: Bullied, you're going to kind of think of the bully.

742
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 4: You're like, someone's really going to be hurting to be

743
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 4: able to project that like her. People hurt people, and

744
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 4: so you kind of think of in nat child's life,

745
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 4: where are they getting bullied, you know, or what's happening

746
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 4: for them to feel the need to do that. So

747
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 4: it is really hard, I think, because I think often

748
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 4: school deals with it in a really like yep, this

749
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 4: is a consequence of your behavior, and it's kind of

750
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 4: the external stuff.

751
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: But we're still seeing this problem, So what are we missing?

752
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's hard because at the same like I

753
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: agree with you, I feel like you're right, well, absolutely right.

754
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: Hurt people do hurt people, and understanding where this is

755
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: coming from matters. But when you're getting kids who are

756
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: more vulnerable getting like threatened, like threatened by kids who

757
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: are bigger and stronger, and I fucking hate all that stuff. Now,

758
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, like, of course we can't. You know,

759
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: the bullies are people too, of course, and we can't,

760
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about ten or twelve or fourteen

761
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: year olds. It's very it's very complicated. It's very socially, emotionally,

762
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: intellectually complicated. I don't think there's an easy or a

763
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: quick answer, but yeah, it's it's.

764
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: Certainly it's really complex.

765
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: Well it's not going away either, it seems.

766
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 4: And like you said, though, like kids deserve to feel

767
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 4: safe at school, and no one can learn when you're

768
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 4: not feeling safe, Like these kids that are getting bullied.

769
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 4: You know, if they're constantly fearing for getting hurt or

770
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: you know that their safety, then they're not going to

771
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 4: really be able to take in what they need to

772
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 4: and then there's going to be gaps in their learning.

773
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 2: So I think it's difficult. But then you've got these.

774
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 4: Public schools that actually can't expel kids and they need

775
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 4: to obviously every kid deserves an education. So how do

776
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 4: they put these boundaries in place where we're trying to

777
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 4: minimize the harm?

778
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, all round, super complicated, and I mean extremely Like

779
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: this terrible not long ago, a week or two, maybe

780
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: a little bit more in Melbourne, this young girl took

781
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: her own life a thirteen year old girl because of bullying,

782
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm like, I understand what you're saying,

783
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: but part of me is like, fuck the bullies. It's

784
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: I know that's not an answer, and that's just being reactive.

785
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: But of course I have this protective gene and I

786
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: don't like adult bullies. I don't like kid bullies. I

787
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: just don't like bullies, and I probably need to be Definitely,

788
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: don't put me in charge because I won't create good outcomes.

789
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 4: No, I'm agreeing with what you're saying. You know, when

790
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 4: you look at like how you know, targeted, some of

791
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 4: these behaviors are, it's so triggering, and that's exactly what

792
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 4: you do.

793
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: You're like, I want to protect this person.

794
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 4: But then it's hard because if we kind of switched

795
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 4: over to the bully and we probably looked at their

796
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 4: history or their childhood or when they were younger, they

797
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 4: probably have had experiences of being bullied, and then you'd

798
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 4: want to protect them, right, and then we keep going down.

799
00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: So I agree, I agree, it's it's it's all right,

800
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: let's finish on something a little bit more hopefully relevant

801
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: for the average tips getting depressed over there.

802
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: I'm angry and depressed. Now lift it up, please.

803
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you're not a fan. You and I

804
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: are not fans of bullies, are we, tiff?

805
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: No?

806
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: No, So I want to talk about praising kids. I

807
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: want to know how much is enough and how much

808
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: is like is there a point that's too much? Doctor Sam?

809
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: Where you know we say to everything they do, oh,

810
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: you're incredible, you're beautiful, that's amazing, when you know it's

811
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: not always amazing, Like, is there too much?

812
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 4: I think so because you think about it, like, you know,

813
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 4: kids end up picking up on the tone and how

814
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 4: it can kind of come across as fake and in

815
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 4: genuine when you're like, oh my god, that is incredible,

816
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 4: and imagine that response for every single thing kid's going

817
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 4: to kind of like everything will then just be treated

818
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 4: the same. So I think it is important to be

819
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 4: more I guess, genuine with maybe the comments that we're saying,

820
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 4: but it also keep switching it up, you know.

821
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, of course you want to be.

822
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 4: Like home like that's like, that's great, and you know,

823
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 4: talk about I know, the specific bit of a painting

824
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 4: that you love, But other times you might want to

825
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 4: check in with how they feel and maybe not just

826
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 4: jump to like overly praising it too, So I think

827
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: it's just trying to be a bit more genuine. It's great,

828
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 4: positive reinforcement is amazing, but I think at the same

829
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 4: time you also want kids to not just seek that

830
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 4: out and also think about how do they feel about it,

831
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 4: Like how do they feel about the effort right that

832
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 4: they put in, or how do they feel about what

833
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 4: they've created, or what do they like about it? So

834
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 4: always having that balance, if letting them know they feel

835
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 4: the support from us and all of that, but also

836
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 4: they can hear their own voice too.

837
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: I have this little video in my head of a

838
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: six year old, you know, taking a picture that they've

839
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: just torn up to dad, and Dad looks at it

840
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: and goes, well, that's shit. Try better or try harder

841
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: to do better. You know. It's like, yeah, I mean,

842
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: And I think also when you're when you're telling them

843
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: that every thing that they're doing is amazing and brilliant

844
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: and the best and fantastic, then you're creating a precedent

845
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: that's probably not healthy because when you don't do that,

846
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: you know, it's like you're giving them all the dopamine

847
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: all the time, or all the praise or all the whatever,

848
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: and then it's yeah, it's it doesn't They don't have

849
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: the same experience anymore because they get desensitized because it

850
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what they do, they get praise and accolades exactly.

851
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 2: So that's what it doesn't come across as genuine, does it? Then?

852
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 4: Like would you want a friend like that? Then no

853
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 4: matter what you do, it's like just that one response,

854
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 4: that one it's amazing and you're like, Okay, do you

855
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 4: really feel that way?

856
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: Think so. I think the more that we can kind

857
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: of humanize that out of it, the better.

858
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 1: All Right. My last question is this, and it's quite

859
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: a deep one or I don't even know. I'm sure

860
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: you have an idea around this. I don't know what

861
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: my idea is. But like one of the things that

862
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: I talk about with grown ups a lot in this

863
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: philos topical, psychological, you know, kind of self awareness space

864
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: is around identity who we are and who we think

865
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: we are and who others think we are. And in

866
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: the middle of all of the shit that I'm not

867
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: my job, I'm not my money, I'm not my body,

868
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm not my brand, Like who am I? The identity piece?

869
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: When do kids start to think about or have an

870
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: awareness of their identity. Is this or is that something

871
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: that happens in teenage years.

872
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 4: So there's probably definitely different schools of thoughts on this,

873
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 4: but kids go through different developmental Like there's one kind

874
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 4: of school of thought where they go through developmental crisises,

875
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 4: you know, at certain stages. So kids will go through,

876
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: say when they're toddlers, right of having this autonomy and independence,

877
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 4: but then also like kind of like and that's why

878
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 4: they like, I want to do it my way, you know,

879
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 4: but they're also trying to go like you're having to.

880
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 2: Take the power, so they're kind of in that balance.

881
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 4: And so for kids in school years, it's more about

882
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 4: the confidence like can I do this here? Know, when

883
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 4: they're looking at the achievement side of things. And then

884
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 4: usually it's the adolescence, which is the identity who am I?

885
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 4: Where do I belong in this world? So in that way,

886
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 4: that's usually the crisis of that developmental stage.

887
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: It's usually adolescents, but.

888
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 4: Kids start that from the get go, right when they're younger,

889
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 4: like they are looking at their place in the world

890
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 4: and you know, they're noticing similarities between their parents and

891
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 4: that they are the peers and what.

892
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: They like to do.

893
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 4: So I think we should always be conscious of that

894
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 4: if you know, they're figuring out their identity. But it

895
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 4: usually becomes a bit of a crisis for them when

896
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 4: they're in adolescents.

897
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: Is there a problem? Maybe this was just where I

898
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: grew up, but a lot of the little girls were

899
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: told constantly how beautiful they are, how pretty they are.

900
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: It was all about how they looked, ye, not how

901
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: smart they were or not how good they were at

902
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: maths or Yeah. There was a lot of emphasis on

903
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: appearance and a lot of praise or appearance, it seems like.

904
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: And then so maybe am I correct in assuming that

905
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: they might then identify who they are with what they

906
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: look like.

907
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 4: Definitely be cause if you think about childhood, it's like survival,

908
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 4: you know, in their mind of how do I get

909
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 4: and how do I get love?

910
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 2: How do I receive love?

911
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 4: So kids notice from a very young age, Okay, when

912
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 4: I act in this way, I get a lot of love,

913
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 4: and when I don't, I don't really And so then

914
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 4: they kind of mold themselves.

915
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: So for kids, yeah, they're getting praise when they look so.

916
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 4: Beautiful and they're so pretty, and how you do your

917
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: hair and how you wear that.

918
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: What are they going to do? It's survival, It's a

919
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: pattern they learn.

920
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 4: So they end up really focusing on that because that's

921
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 4: how they get love and that's how they felt the most,

922
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 4: you know, safe and accepted.

923
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: So what's the solution or the antidote to that as

924
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: us go on?

925
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 4: So as be as they balance it out really, you know,

926
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 4: making note of being able to notice those different things

927
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 4: about your child, you know, what makes them them, and

928
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 4: being able to identify that. I love how you like

929
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: you know again, the things that we might be a

930
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 4: bit annoidered with as parents. A lot of parents like

931
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 4: they just want to do it their way.

932
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 2: Okay.

933
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 4: I love that you. You know, you advocate for yourself.

934
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 4: You know exactly what you want and you want to tell.

935
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 2: Me about it. You know, you want to make sure

936
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: that fighting for yourself. That's great. I like that about you.

937
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 4: Like being able to actually talk about the different attributes

938
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 4: so that we're not just based on the physical stuff.

939
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 4: We are looking at what makes them them and we're

940
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 4: pointing that out for them and then you know, leaving

941
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 4: that open for them to like what do you like

942
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 4: about you? Like asking those kind of questions as well,

943
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 4: to see what they notice other than just the looks

944
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 4: with your pearance stuff.

945
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: That's why we have you, because you're the smartypants. You're

946
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: the smartypants. Hey, how do people find you? Doctor Sam?

947
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: Where are you at? Website and socials and all of

948
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: that stuff?

949
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 4: Yep, you can find me on Instagram at doctor Samcasey

950
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 4: or my website at www dot dotor samcc dot com.

951
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: And where can people find you? Tiff down at Albert

952
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: Parkbeach or.

953
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: In all the places hYP in their bamboo out their

954
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 3: back window.

955
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and tifcock dot com.

956
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: Tiffcook dot com. Perfect. I will say goodbye a fair

957
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: but Dr Sam thanks love it and brilliant as always

958
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: Thanks very much for having me on here, Craig