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Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigel

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Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. Hello and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. I'm Joe Hildebrand. And in

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Speaker 1: case you haven't noticed, Donald Trump is Donald Trump still? Yes,

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Speaker 1: he is alive and he is kicking. We'll be getting

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Speaker 1: into the real story behind the assassination.

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Speaker 2: Do do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do?

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Speaker 1: Plus on the home front, Are the Greens planning to

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Speaker 1: destroy labor? Spoiler alert? Yes, I'll reveal how plus is

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Speaker 1: the CFMEU or now it's known the cfmm EU plotting

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Speaker 1: to destroy labor? Spoiler alert Yes, And we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to the bottom of the Vietnam War myth that

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Speaker 1: engulfed Australia. How are Vietnam vets actually treated when they

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Speaker 1: came home? Well, the answer might not be what you've

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Speaker 1: been told. We'll be speaking to the author of a

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Speaker 1: new book who's uncovered the truth. All that and more

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Speaker 1: coming up. Okay, but first we've got to get it

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Speaker 1: out of our system, just like America has to get

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Speaker 1: him out of its system. Donald J. Trump, who is

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Speaker 1: about to become the next president of the United States again, Yes,

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Speaker 1: you can take that to the bank, put the house

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Speaker 1: on it. In fact, he is actually saved the last

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Speaker 1: few months of Joe Biden's presidency because now no one

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Speaker 1: else wants to run against him. But we'll get to

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Speaker 1: all that in a tick. But first, what led up

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Speaker 1: to this assassination attempt in Pennsylvania. Well, I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what led up to it. All of Donald Trump's opponents

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Now, it is just excruciating for

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Speaker 1: someone who knows anything about politics, and there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of me out there. Don't get me wrong, I'm not

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Speaker 1: pretending I'm the only one. But people I know who

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Speaker 1: are smart political strategus as opposed to people who tell

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Speaker 1: everyone how smart they are, who've been watching the Trump

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Speaker 1: phenomenon and just going, oh my god, what are you

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Speaker 1: guys doing. People who are supposed to be stopping Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump are helping him. Ninety percent of the reason why

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is going to be president, going to be

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Speaker 1: elected president in November and sworn in in January, ninety

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Speaker 1: percent of the reason is his opponents. Actually, no, that's

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Speaker 1: that's an exaggeration. One hundred percent of the reason is

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Speaker 1: his opponents. Now, I'm just going to take you back

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Speaker 1: to say, I don't know. Twenty twenty when Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: lost the election against Joe Biden. Now, as we all know,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden got a record number of votes, the biggest

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Speaker 1: number of votes in any US presidential election in history.

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Speaker 1: But guess who got the second biggest number of votes

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Speaker 1: in US presidential election history. That's right, Donald Trump. All

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Speaker 1: these votes, let's not forget, were just for Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: despite everything he'd said, everything he'd done, everything he was

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Speaker 1: accused of. The Biden votes, they came from a coalition

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Speaker 1: that range from Sanders socialists to Romney Republicans. Right, we

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Speaker 1: had the Lincoln Project, all these soft moderate Republicans who

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Speaker 1: are rallying votes against Donald Trump. Then you had the

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Speaker 1: entire Democrat machine, including people who were for the left

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Speaker 1: of the Democrat machine who were barely in the Democrats

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Speaker 1: in the first place, i e. The Bernie Sanders mobs,

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Speaker 1: the Trots, right, all of them, although apart from a

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Speaker 1: few crazies who decided to vote for Sanders and then

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump because I don't know, Julia Sange whatever, but

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Speaker 1: all of them were aligned against Donald Trump. So Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump versus the world. So this guy can pull whatever

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Speaker 1: it was seventy six million votes just on his own,

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Speaker 1: despite having bragged about grabbing women by the pussy, despite

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Speaker 1: being accused of having sex with a porn star, despite everything,

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Speaker 1: he still pulls the second highest number of votes in

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Speaker 1: US presidential history. And you think it's all over, well,

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Speaker 1: guess what it very nearly was because Donald Trump did

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Speaker 1: his very best to blow himself up. Basically, well it didn't.

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Speaker 1: Just basically he accused the election of being rigged, said

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Speaker 1: it was all crooked, said it was all bogus. This

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Speaker 1: has been proven to be absolute crap. But anyway, he

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Speaker 1: said it, his supporters believed it, and they write it.

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Speaker 1: They rided on the Capitol the Capitol Building in Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC on January sixth. It was called the Insurrection. I'm

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Speaker 1: not quite sure it was that if it was as

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Speaker 1: the most disorganized insurrection I've ever seen in my life.

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Speaker 1: But it was a bunch of crazy sort of running rampant,

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Speaker 1: causing damage, yelling and screaming about freedom and whatever whatever whatever.

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Speaker 1: This point was Donald Trump's lowest EBB. Nobody wanted a

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Speaker 1: bar of him. Even former die hard Trump supporters didn't

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Speaker 1: want to buy him. Even his vice president Mike Pence

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Speaker 1: did not want a bar of him, and the Democrats

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Speaker 1: had the Republicans by the balls. They had him in

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Speaker 1: a squirrel grip because they were locked in this perfect paradox.

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Speaker 1: None of the Republican candidates for the Congress and the

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Speaker 1: Senate and the midterm elections, none of them could get

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Speaker 1: pre selectioned without don sayso. Donald Trump controlled or publican machine,

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Speaker 1: but the rest of the electorate didn't want anything to

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Speaker 1: do with him. So Trump pre selected all these Trumpian candidates,

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Speaker 1: and they ran in the mid terms, and it was

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Speaker 1: a fizzit. They predicted a red wave, they predicted a tsunami,

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Speaker 1: a blood bath. It was going to be like they're

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Speaker 1: shining when the elevators open and the rivers of red

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Speaker 1: just flow through. Instead, it was nothing. They barely even

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Speaker 1: got control at the House, and even then they could

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Speaker 1: an elector speaker. They kept going back and forth. It

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Speaker 1: was embarrassing. Took forever. The Republicans were in absolute shambles.

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Speaker 1: And again they're locked in a catch twenty two where

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Speaker 1: the person who gets pre selected cannot possibly be the

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Speaker 1: person who wins. They can only get pre selected with

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Speaker 1: Trump approval, but the candidates Trump approves never meet with

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Speaker 1: public approval. This is the most embarrassing thing. Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: is meant to use this red wave as the platform,

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Speaker 1: as the kind of the crest on which he surfs

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Speaker 1: back into the presidency and he announces this big Everyone's saying,

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Speaker 1: he's gonna do this big announced man, he's gonna rideumphantly say,

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Speaker 1: and I'm coming back, coming back on the back of

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Speaker 1: this big red wave. But the big red wave never happens.

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Speaker 1: It's nothing, and everyone thinks, well, that's it for Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Is surely even Donald Trump is not delusional enough to

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Speaker 1: announce his presence. Yeah, there's no way he can win it.

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Speaker 1: He's dead in the water. He is doa But no

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump ever, the fantasist holds the press conference at

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Speaker 1: Mary Lago. Anyway, it's amazing there, Shandily is everywhere, gold everywhere.

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Speaker 1: It's fantastic. And he goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: It starts rambling about the election being stolen. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: really have any other policies, he doesn't really have any

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Speaker 1: other platform. It's just it was rigged. It was rigged,

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Speaker 1: you know, crooked Hillary whatever. Whatever. He just wants to

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Speaker 1: get back to get revenge. That's basically his entire platform.

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Speaker 1: I should be president, because I should be president, like

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Speaker 1: Malcolm Turnbill being Prime minister. But well let's not get

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Speaker 1: into that. It goes on for hours. Right, You've got

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Speaker 1: people there who are crawling up the walls trying to

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Speaker 1: get out. Right, everyone's just looking away, even again diehard

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Speaker 1: Trump supporters, people I know in Australia TI transporters just

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Speaker 1: can't bear to look. It's like Kevin Rudd eating his

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Speaker 1: ear wax. No one wants to believe it, no one

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Speaker 1: wants to know about it. He's got absolutely nothing to

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Speaker 1: fight for. He's got blood on his hands from the

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Speaker 1: January sixth insurrection, riots, protests, storming of the capitol, whatever

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Speaker 1: you want to call it. He's gone a bridge too far.

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Speaker 1: Everyone is just turning their back on him. He's a joke,

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Speaker 1: he's washed up, he's embarrassed. And what do his enemies do.

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Speaker 1: They prosecute him. They decide that they're going to take

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Speaker 1: him to court over this weird, bizarre campaign finance law

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Speaker 1: that basically means that his payment of hush money to

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Speaker 1: Stormy Daniels counts as a campaign expense and therefore it

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Speaker 1: wasn't declared in the proper way. Something like that Now

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Speaker 1: this has already been looked at by federal authorities. It's

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Speaker 1: already been looked at two sets of hands, the preceding

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Speaker 1: state authorities in New York where it eventually gets prosecuted,

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Speaker 1: and the federal law authorities. They both say, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to touch this. There's no point. It's convoluted. He's

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Speaker 1: gone anyway, But no one crusader stands tall, and the

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Speaker 1: left still want their revenge. They still want him to

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Speaker 1: go to jail, and so they go after him. And

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Speaker 1: so Donald Trump, who has been saying without a shred

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Speaker 1: of evidence, against all the evidence, with the most delusional

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Speaker 1: concepts of self grandeur ever, I mean saying, I'm a martyr,

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Speaker 1: this billionaire property developer from New York City, I'm a

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Speaker 1: mart I'm actually a victim here. The Deep States come

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Speaker 1: in and get me. The government's out to get me.

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Speaker 1: They're rigging the election. They don't want you to know

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Speaker 1: the truth. They don't want you to be free. They

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Speaker 1: don't want me to save you from the shackles of

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Speaker 1: big government, from the sinister forces of the Deep State.

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Speaker 1: The state's coming after me, and what do they do

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Speaker 1: they come after him. They do what George Michael said

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Speaker 1: in the song Freedom ninety all we have to do

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Speaker 1: is take these lies and make them true. That's what

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Speaker 1: Trump said to his deth. They took all the bullshit

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Speaker 1: he was saying, all the absolutely deluded, mad conspiracy theories

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Speaker 1: that were coming out of his mouth, and they made

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Speaker 1: them true by using the justice system to go after

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Speaker 1: a formal president who was never going to get power again.

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Speaker 1: He was washed up, just going after him out of spite.

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Speaker 1: And what does going after him do. It fires him

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Speaker 1: up again. It fires up his base again, and suddenly

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Speaker 1: he really is a marty. Suddenly he's got the mugshot

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Speaker 1: to prove it. And suddenly all the people who were

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Speaker 1: sort of turning away from and start to turn back

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Speaker 1: and say, hang on a minute, maybe he's right, Maybe

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Speaker 1: they are out to get him. And this fills his

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Speaker 1: campaign full of energy. The donations start flowing in. He

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Speaker 1: got a record number of donations on the day that

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Speaker 1: he was prosecuted, the day he was found guilty. The

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Speaker 1: money just rolled in. This is the Left trying to

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Speaker 1: stop him, and they are just they am filling his

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Speaker 1: tank up with ninety eight and they are pointing that

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Speaker 1: V eight all the way to the White House. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't stop there. Oh no, no no. So they

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Speaker 1: go after him and after him and after him, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out that the only bloke that he's definitely

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Speaker 1: gonna beat is the bloke that they've got going against him.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that they're going to use a guy

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Speaker 1: who they accused of being too old and not knowing

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Speaker 1: stuff and getting things wrong and making stuff up and

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Speaker 1: not being reliable, not being of sound mind and body.

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Speaker 1: And who do they put up against him, An eighty

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Speaker 1: one year old dementia patient and he just won't go anywhere,

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Speaker 1: even eventually when they say, oh, you know what, we were

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Speaker 1: making it up. Yeah he's not fine. Yeah he's been

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Speaker 1: out of it all along. We don't know. We thought

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't notice. But yeah, we've got to switch him

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Speaker 1: out now. But of course it's too late, because the

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Speaker 1: dementia patient doesn't know that he's the biggest liability to

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Speaker 1: the Democrats since time began. Why because he's got dementia

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Speaker 1: and there's no recordism to blow him out, so no

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Speaker 1: one can persuade Joe Biden to take one for the team.

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Speaker 1: Of course this was going to happen. George Clooney weighs

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Speaker 1: in with the okay of Barack Obama, and they said, George,

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Speaker 1: we're going to have to send you in, and then

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Speaker 1: if that doesn't work, we're going to have to send

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Speaker 1: in the other ten promotions eleven. See if that works out.

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Speaker 1: So then finally going to blow him out of the

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Speaker 1: fox hole. Right, They're just going to keep lobbing bombs

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Speaker 1: at Joe until he just has no choice but to go.

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Speaker 1: That was the plan. He would have lasted maybe days, right,

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Speaker 1: and they could have had real fight iness hand if

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, maybe even or a big shock candidate like

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Speaker 1: Michelle Obama, although they would have had to kiss good

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Speaker 1: Biden about a quarter of a billion in campaign finances,

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Speaker 1: I explained last week. But anyway, anyone but Biden could

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Speaker 1: have maybe given Trump a bit of a run for

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Speaker 1: his money. And that's what they're about to do. They're

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Speaker 1: about to switch him out, put in the big guns.

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Speaker 1: And then what does some little trigger happy trot do.

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Speaker 1: Trigger happy registered Republican trot, mind you, He decides, no,

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Speaker 1: do I guys, I got this. I'll take Trump out myself. Now.

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Speaker 1: Of course, he kills a completely innocent person, wounds a

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Speaker 1: couple more others and gives Trump the most incredibly emblematic,

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Speaker 1: symbolic wound that does not even incapacitate him remotely, but

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Speaker 1: looks fantastic on camera and provides the most iconic shot

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Speaker 1: of twenty first century American politics. Trump riding high saying fight, Fight, Fight,

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Speaker 1: with an incredibly it's like put on by a Hollywood

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Speaker 1: makeup department, a beautiful trickle of blood running down the

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Speaker 1: right hand side of his face as he holds his

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Speaker 1: fist up against the American flag. You could not script

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Speaker 1: this point being. This assassination attempt was not staged and

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Speaker 1: was not made up by Hollywood, but it could have been.

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Speaker 1: And this kid, who presumably wanted to stop Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: getting the presidency, I mean, I don't know why you

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Speaker 1: would aim to shoot them in the head if you

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Speaker 1: did want them to be president. But you know, let's

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Speaker 1: assume I think pretty safely that he was an opponent

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. This kid has in fact given him

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Speaker 1: the perfect platform on which to win. Not just perfect,

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Speaker 1: he's unbackable to win now. There is absolutely no way

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump will not win. He cannot not win. A

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Speaker 1: Democrat strategist said, and I believe the exact quote was

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Speaker 1: we are so beyond now, couldn't put it better myself.

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Speaker 1: So this kid tries to take Donald Trump out with

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Speaker 1: a head shot, after hitting a few other people first,

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Speaker 1: ends up just clipping him in the ear. Trump survives,

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Speaker 1: goes on to become president. Good. Why because if he

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Speaker 1: had a shot Trump, it would make a Trump presidency

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Speaker 1: look like a picnic. It would make the Trump presidency

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Speaker 1: look like Ann of Green Gables. Because if Trump was

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Speaker 1: shot by an assassin, America would immediately, and I mean immediately,

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Speaker 1: explode into civil war. Think January sixth, and let's not

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Speaker 1: forget all of Trump's critics are saying that that was

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Speaker 1: an attempted insurrection, an attempted revolution, an attempt to overthrow

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Speaker 1: the government. All right, let's take them with their word.

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Speaker 1: Imagine what those guys would do. Imagine what the man

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Speaker 1: with the crazy Bison hat would do if someone actually

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Speaker 1: shot Trump dead. If Trump was assassinated, not just that

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Speaker 1: he lost an election, imagine if somebody killed them. Imagine

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Speaker 1: what these people would do. And then you thought the

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter mostly peaceful riots were bad, Imagine what

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Speaker 1: the left. Imagine what Antiffa would do if these guys

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Speaker 1: rose up again, it would be carnage, it would be

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Speaker 1: a blood bath. America would literally be burning. At least Trump,

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Speaker 1: if he becomes president, put up with it for four years.

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Speaker 1: That's it. America's got out of his system. And no,

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Speaker 1: Robert de Niro, He's not going to declare himself dictated

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Speaker 1: for life. If you want to move to China, you

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Speaker 1: can see what that's like. His name is h Jingping. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: point being Trump survives, he's now absolutely unbakkable to win.

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Speaker 1: And Joe Biden, meanwhile, has been put into the well

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Speaker 1: rather enviable position of actually doing what he should have

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Speaker 1: done in the first place, which is taking one for

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Speaker 1: the team. Joe Biden was meant to step aside for

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Speaker 1: the stake of the Democrats, but now he's got to

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Speaker 1: finish the job. Now he can't step aside even if

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Speaker 1: he wanted it. No one's going to take his place,

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Speaker 1: because every single Democrat knows they're onto a hiding for nothing.

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Speaker 1: They will be slaughtered politically speaking, not in the way

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Speaker 1: that Donald Trump almost was. So Joe Biden, because of

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Speaker 1: his selfishness and because of his refusal to step down

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Speaker 1: when he should have, is now going to be the

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Speaker 1: political punching bag for Donald Trump, a resurgent Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: all his supporters. He is going to be the man

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Speaker 1: who lost to Donald Trump when he didn't have to,

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Speaker 1: the man who basically took the presidency off Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: and then four years later just handed the keys of

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Speaker 1: the White House straight back to him. That is now

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Speaker 1: his legacy. Good thing is he won't remember it, so

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Speaker 1: that's okay. Speaking of lefties who are out to destroy, well,

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Speaker 1: the left, the Greens have unveiled their plan again to

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Speaker 1: destroy and usurp the Australian Labor Party again. They keep

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Speaker 1: announcing this plan. They haven't quite managed to make it

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Speaker 1: actually come off. But according to a couple of articles,

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Speaker 1: one in the Australian newspaper, the Fine National Masthead, and

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Speaker 1: the other in the Daily Mail, which is the greatest

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Speaker 1: tabloid website that God himself ever created, the Greens are

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Speaker 1: going to take over Labor as the major party of opposition.

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Speaker 1: Now I'll come back to very shortly just how insanely

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Speaker 1: stupid this is and how it just means that the

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Speaker 1: Greens are doing Peter Dutton's work for him. But first

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Speaker 1: bit of background. Let's go to everybody's favorite Green they're

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Speaker 1: housing spokesman Max Chandler Matha. He has told The Daily

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Speaker 1: Mail that the party plans to seize power in Australia

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Speaker 1: by twenty forty. That seems far away when anyone other

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Speaker 1: than Max Chandler Matha is going to be prime minister.

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Speaker 1: With him as prime minister, it feels like it's very close.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it's looming, I dare say, And he

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Speaker 1: has released this projection, so again they're just kind of

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Speaker 1: making it up that they've released to the Daily Mail

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Speaker 1: where they're saying that based on the twenty nineteen results

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Speaker 1: where the LNP has seventy seven seats, the ALP has

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Speaker 1: sixty eight seats, the Greens have won an independence have five.

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Speaker 1: This is conveniently ignoring the fact that in the very

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Speaker 1: next election the ALP scored a majority. But anyway, that

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Speaker 1: then goes to the twenty forty results and apparently miraculously,

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Speaker 1: the LNP have just fifty seven seats. Now the ALP

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Speaker 1: has just forty three seats and the Greens have forty

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Speaker 1: five seats. So suddenly the Greens the dominant power, the

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Speaker 1: dominant party in a Labor Green alliance. Suddenly Labor has

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Speaker 1: become the kind of center left Greens, and the Greens

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Speaker 1: are now the official well they're the government now because

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Speaker 1: they've formed a coalition with Labor. They've got a combined vote.

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Speaker 1: And this is just literally according to something the Greens

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Speaker 1: have just written down on I think a beer coaster

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Speaker 1: is even being too generous to the amount of analysis

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Speaker 1: and modeling that's gone into this. But anyway, the Greens

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Speaker 1: have got forty five and Labour's got forty three, so

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Speaker 1: between them they've got eighty eight seats compared to just

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Speaker 1: fifty seven. Wow, that's a landslide in twenty forty when

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Speaker 1: Max Chandler may have becomes Prime minister. Holy moly, might

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Speaker 1: as well just call off the election? Why by the

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Speaker 1: holding it the results are already in fifteen years early

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Speaker 1: fantastic and Adam Banner has also given an interview to

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Speaker 1: The Australian where he basically says the same thing. He says,

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Speaker 1: We're coming for you. He's listed ten seats that the

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Speaker 1: Greens are going to target at the upcoming election. Funnily enough,

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Speaker 1: eight of them are Labor seats. So these big heroic

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Speaker 1: Greens lefties revolutionaries float to power. They're not coming after

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Speaker 1: the Libs. They're coming after Labor in eight out of

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Speaker 1: ten cases, and of course all the seats that they

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Speaker 1: already have have basically come at Labour's expense, either seats

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Speaker 1: that Labor would have won in a couple of cases,

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Speaker 1: more likely seats that Labor were already holding, that they've

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Speaker 1: taken off Labor. And yet they don't seem to quite

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Speaker 1: figure out what they're doing, because they accuse Labor of

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Speaker 1: being a center right party, and they accuse of being

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Speaker 1: too much like the Libs, and they even say Adam

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Speaker 1: Banner even says, well, we know that when we run

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Speaker 1: against Labor, we've got to win in our own right

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Speaker 1: because Labor and the Liberal Party will preference each other

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Speaker 1: to keep us out, So we've got to win in

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Speaker 1: our own right. So he's actually sayying that the Greens

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Speaker 1: need to get what fifty one percent of the primary

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Speaker 1: vote because the other two are gonna just preference against

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Speaker 1: each other or forty percent, so that they can pick

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Speaker 1: up a few nutty independence and minor parties and get

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Speaker 1: over the line. The Greens are, ain't they and whoever

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Speaker 1: preferences them have to get more votes than Labor and

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Speaker 1: Liberal combined in all of these, let me check my notes,

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Speaker 1: forty five seats that they're gonna win in twenty forty.

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Speaker 1: And so if by the Green's own analysis, what they're

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Speaker 1: doing means that Labor will join with the coalition, well

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Speaker 1: suddenly that kind of means that they're not in government.

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Speaker 1: They are not in power because suddenly they're forty five

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Speaker 1: seats aren't combined with Labour's forty three seats. Because Labour's

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Speaker 1: forty three seats go to the lnp's fifty seven seats,

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Speaker 1: that gives them one hundred seats compared to the greens

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Speaker 1: forty five seats. So, if the Greens are right in

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Speaker 1: their own owned mind, in their own analysis of what

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Speaker 1: this will do by forcing Labor and Liberal to do

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Speaker 1: deals with each other swap preferences, they either get knocked

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Speaker 1: out at every seat they can test because Labor and

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Speaker 1: Liberal share preferences and put the Greens last, which they

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Speaker 1: will be doing in a number of seats at this

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Speaker 1: upcoming election because of the Green's crazy stance on stuff

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Speaker 1: and at least some cases, or they just forced Labor

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Speaker 1: into a coalition with the coalition, which would lock the

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Speaker 1: Greens as the party of the left out of power

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Speaker 1: for I don't know ever, and that would suit them

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Speaker 1: quite well, because of course if the Greens ever got power,

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Speaker 1: it'd be an absolute disaster. We know what happened when

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Speaker 1: they formed a coalition with Labor after the twenty ten election.

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Speaker 1: It was terrible. They immediately implemented a policy that everyone

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Speaker 1: had voted against, and then Labor got absolutely destroyed, for

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Speaker 1: it didn't get just destroyed internally when Julia Gillard was

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Speaker 1: then rolled for Kevin Rudd, because she should have never

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Speaker 1: rolled him in the first place. They didn't just get

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Speaker 1: rolled at the next election where Rudd came back lost

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Speaker 1: by a landslide, possibly less of a landslide than Gillard

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Speaker 1: would have lost by. But even the Greens themselves, after

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Speaker 1: making Julia Gillard sign this political death wish, this political

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Speaker 1: suicide note. After doing that, what did they do. They

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Speaker 1: walked away from her, They abandoned her. They got up

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Speaker 1: Christine milgarp and said, nah, we don't like what the

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Speaker 1: government's doing. Screw them. They're on their own. They're not

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Speaker 1: hardline enough for us anymore, not extreme enough for us.

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Speaker 1: And these are the people who are saying they're going

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Speaker 1: to be forming government with a coalition with Labor, the

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Speaker 1: people they've betrayed time and time and time again, and

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Speaker 1: the people they're still hurling insults out, the people who

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Speaker 1: their supporters are harassing, who's outside their electorate officers. They

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Speaker 1: reckon that these are the people who are going to

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Speaker 1: get into bed with them again after it cost them

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Speaker 1: government the last time round. Yeah, I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: And just another quick one on the hard left. I've

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Speaker 1: always had a slight soft spot for the CFMU, the

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Speaker 1: building Union. It's least in New South Wales. Other states

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Speaker 1: farm more bolshy, farm or militant. New South Wales hasn't

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Speaker 1: been too bad. And also construction building extremely dangerous industry.

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Speaker 1: You need a really hardcore militant maybe not militant, but

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Speaker 1: you need a pretty heavy union to make sure that

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Speaker 1: corners aren't being cut. And of course they also end

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Speaker 1: up getting too heavy and too militant and it just

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Speaker 1: ruins everybody's days. But still not too bad in New

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Speaker 1: South Wales, terrible everywhere else. This of course brings us

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Speaker 1: to John Setka, the leader of the Victorian division of

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Speaker 1: the CFMUH has already been kicked out of the Labor

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Speaker 1: Party and there's now moves the foot to basically kick

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Speaker 1: out the entire operation other state branches of the CFMU,

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Speaker 1: the National CFMU, which is technically a separate body. It's

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Speaker 1: all ridiculously complicated anyway. Point being Chris Mins, the Premier

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Speaker 1: of New South Wales, who is an absolute superstar and

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Speaker 1: got the best cheek bones of any politician the twenty first,

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Speaker 1: twentieth or nineteenth centuries combined. He's amazing, he's dreaming, he's

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Speaker 1: just and he runs. He's healthy, he's got three kids,

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Speaker 1: married to a nice lady who's always a put I

427
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: just love him so much. Anyway, he's come out now

428
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: and said, right, CFU, we're booting you out of the party.

429
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: We are getting rid of you altogether. We don't want you.

430
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: He's written to the General Secretary of the New South

431
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: Wales Labor Party, Dom Offner, who is also an absolute superstar,

432
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: and you can absolutely guarantee that the CFMUU will be

433
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: expelled from the Australiant Labor Party New South Wales branch.

434
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: They will be disaffiliated. What does that mean in New

435
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: South Wales, Well, not that much, except that it means

436
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,719
Speaker 1: that CFMU will no longer be able to have delegates

437
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: at the ALP State Conference and that means the balance

438
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: of power. It says State Conference will shift to the

439
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: right of the party. The right still has the numbers

440
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: state Conference, but New South Wales is in a minority

441
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: in Australia most states. Now it's gone from being the right,

442
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: the center, right, the unity faction, whatever you want to

443
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: call it, being the most powerful faction, to left being

444
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: the most powerful faction. Now New South Wales the Rights

445
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: managed to hold on because the New South Wales is

446
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: the home of the New South Wales. Right, the clue

447
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: is in the name, But elsewhere the story is a

448
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: little bit different. Now you've had Alba and Tony Burke,

449
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: to their credit, saying right, we're going to launch an

450
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: independent investigation, independ inquiry into these things we can't trust

451
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: see for me to look into their own affairs. We've

452
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: got that right. But were the CFMEU to be fully

453
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: expelled from the Australian Labour Party, well, National Conference could

454
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: look very different to what it does now. See at

455
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 1: the moment, National Conference is actually controlled by the left.

456
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: The left have the numbers for the first time in

457
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: a very long time. The Left have the numbers at

458
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: National Conference. That's why we saw most recently that silly

459
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: little motion about Palestine and whether we recognize the disputed

460
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,239
Speaker 1: territories or the occupied territories. Stupid semantics put up by

461
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: the left who were just obsessed with this issue. And

462
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: this was basically a deal was done so that the

463
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: Left would get their little change of wording. But then Orcus,

464
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: which is far more important than Australian UK and US

465
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: submarine and strategic and security treaty, would get through, and

466
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: so little devils don't who cares about the wording. Well,

467
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: it turns out the wording was pretty important because after

468
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: that conference October seven happened, Hamas invaded Israel and or

469
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: Hell broke loose, and suddenly alp is accused of being

470
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: selling out to Hamas, selling out to Palestine and whatever,

471
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: hanging Israel out to dry. So sometimes those little semantics matter.

472
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: But that was all because the Left suddenly had the

473
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: numbers at conference. It could make life very very uncomfortable

474
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: for the Prime Minister, Anthony Alberanezi, who is himself from

475
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: the left technically, but as Prime Minister has to govern

476
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: from the center and is I can assure you genuinely

477
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: a centrist. These days, he has come from the left,

478
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: but he's now very much in the center, and he

479
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: sort of outflanked Bill Shorten, who was from the right

480
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: but started sounding like it was from the left. He

481
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: outflanked Bill Shorten on the right in order to gain

482
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: the Labor leadership. I could talk about that for about

483
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: six days unbroken if you want me to, but I

484
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: don't think you do. Point being the left control the

485
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: National Conference after just one branch of the ETU, the

486
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: Electrical Trades Union, flipped from left to right. The New

487
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: South Wales branch was a right wing branch of what

488
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: was otherwise a left wing union, but it then flipped

489
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: to the left, and that gave the left the numbers

490
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: on the conference floor and basically meant that the left

491
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: controlled the Federal Labor Party, or at least the political

492
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: wing of the party. The Parliamentary Party is different story.

493
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: I won't boy you with that. If the CFMU is

494
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: booted out wholesale, those numbers shift right back. Now, I'm

495
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: not sure if it would actually give the right the numbers,

496
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: but it would be very very very close, and that

497
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: might be why you see some reluctance among certain leading

498
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: left wing figures, including the current National Secretary of the

499
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: Federal the National Labor Party, the ALP itself, as well

500
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: as of course the leadership of the ACTU, which is

501
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: currently left wing, and other figures. I'm not counting Albo

502
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: because Albow's awesome. Whatever he does is all right. But

503
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: it could be that they are refusing to boot the

504
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: CFMEU from the party altogether, the National Party apparatus, because

505
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: if they do, the left could potentially lose the numbers

506
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: on the conference floor. So just think about that next

507
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: time you're thinking about whether or not Labor will do

508
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: the right thing when it comes to rooting out all

509
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: this union corruption or allegations thereof. So that could be

510
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: a very cynical political game, or they could make everyone's

511
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: dreams come true, get rid of the CFMU, let the

512
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: right back in charge where they've always wanted to be,

513
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: and let the left be the side of protest and

514
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: winging as they've always wanted to be. It's the natural

515
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: order of things. Well, as you know on the real

516
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: story with Joe Hildebrand, it's not just the real story

517
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: with just Joe Hildebrand anymore, because we thought we'd bring

518
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: in people who actually do know what they're talking about.

519
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: People who have got big, big brains that we like

520
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: to pick. And there is no one whose brain is

521
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: bigger than my. Next guess is someone who I'm going

522
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: to tear up now, and he's going to use this

523
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: against me for the rest of both our lives. I'm

524
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: recording it. He's someone who I absolutely had a massive

525
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: man crash on ever since he started writing. He used

526
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: to write these incredibly funny columns in The Good Weekend

527
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: which I just thought were amazing. It was just my

528
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: kind of gonzo. It was just very special. He then

529
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: decided that he didn't give a rats about that. He

530
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: left and decided to become something like a sort of

531
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: military historian, among other things. And he's just written a

532
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: new book that is an absolute banger, And you want

533
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: to talk about the real story. This actually uncovers the

534
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: real story about a Australia's war myths. And he joins

535
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: me right now, Mark Dappan, welcome, How are you, Joe Hildebrand?

536
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: I am sacked.

537
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: Let's not let's not pretend I drifted away from a

538
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: Good Weekend.

539
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: Let's remember have been.

540
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: You are the true story.

541
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk the real story about Mark david sacking

542
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: you are the Norm McDonald of Australian writers. But what

543
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: sometimes I think, as someone who has also been sacked

544
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 1: many times, I think the quality, the caliber of a

545
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: man is measured by those who sack him. I agree

546
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: what you think. Hang on, he's measured by day.

547
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that means they've measured our caliber, found it

548
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: wanting and sacked.

549
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that means that you're just wrong. Anyone who

550
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: doesn't think we're awesome is wrong and worthy of huge

551
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,719
Speaker 1: amounts of money. Yeah, he's a fool, a fool. I

552
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: like your work to stop it. No, but it's true.

553
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: It is all true. And anyway, look, it's great to

554
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: have you. I was reading. This is why I was

555
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: reading on the weekend. There was a great piece in

556
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: the Weekend Australia magazine about how this incredibly iconic and

557
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: it's strange for something to be so iconic when there's

558
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: no actual sort of physical record of it. But this

559
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: iconic idea that our Vietnam vets came back to Australia.

560
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: They were abused about, you know, pelted whatever by all

561
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: these horrible angry hippies who were protesting the Vietnam War.

562
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: And this is a really sort of incredibly and I'm

563
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: going to let you talk very soon, I promise, But

564
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: this is an incredibly important part of Australian history. But

565
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: you've done some investigation and found that it actually never happened.

566
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it hasn't been any important part of Australian history

567
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: for very long. That's what surprised me about it initially.

568
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: So I started working on this. I had actually done

569
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: a bunch of interviews with the Vietnam Veterans Motorcycle Club

570
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: and they had told me, probably spoke to about a

571
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: dozen of them at their clubhouse, and they all told

572
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: me parts of the same story. They all had this

573
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: story that they were they came home and once said

574
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: I had blood thrown on me by students. They kind

575
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: of built and built on that, and I became interested

576
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: in who the abuses were. I wanted to find out

577
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: what these people had to say for themselves today, and

578
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 2: indeed what the plan was.

579
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: You know.

580
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: But it didn't sound odd to me to start with,

581
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: that isn't true. I didn't know anything about it, and

582
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: I just assumed that what I was being told was true.

583
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: But then I did start to wonder, like, you know,

584
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: I come from an army town, and you know students

585
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: generally do not attack soldiers. It's the I.

586
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: Want to start. Not really, you are not coming to

587
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: this from it. You know these you know, these terrible

588
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: lying vets, making up rubbish whatever You're you are hugely

589
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: into the military. You're fascinated by all Your books seem

590
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: to touch on one moy another. Your first book, Nashos

591
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: was about the forgotten sort of generation of Vietnam generation,

592
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: the people who were conscripted and had to do national service.

593
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: So you love these guys. You're coming at it from

594
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: a position of someone who really loves and respects the military.

595
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, I don't.

596
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: Love the military.

597
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: But now you just made me look stupid.

598
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: No you did, anyway, You've got the podcast.

599
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: Sound stupid?

600
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, mate, Sorry. I come from a position, I guess,

601
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: of enormous sympathy for these guys I've met. When I

602
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: did my first book in the Nashos War, I interviewed

603
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: probably one hundred and sixty is the figure. I say,

604
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: I can't remember how sounds quite how many. It was

605
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: National servicemen and regular soldiers, most of whom had fought

606
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: in Vietnam. Then I did a doctor ad for or

607
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: that was kind of At the same time, I spoke

608
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: to many more Vietnam veterans.

609
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: And straining Defense Force Academy. Yeah.

610
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they were obviously officers training. Most of

611
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 2: the people had, apart from me and a few other

612
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: postgrads officer cadets, and I grew up in a garrison town.

613
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: As I say, it's kind of used to having the

614
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: army around me. I'm used to talking to soldiers, and

615
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: my heart does go out to these guys that at

616
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: such a young age, you know, at my son's age,

617
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: almost at my son's age, were sent to Vietnam. And

618
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: even the ones that weren't sent to Vietnam, even those

619
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: people who had to do the majority of National servicemen

620
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 2: who had to do two years National service in Australia,

621
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: it's a massive disruption to your life when you don't

622
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: know any different. And that's kind of what interested me,

623
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 2: like how they coped with that period of disruption. That's

624
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 2: why I was interested in National servicemen initially over regular soldiers.

625
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: And obviously that period of destruction was far worse for

626
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 2: those who went to war, and then to think that

627
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: when they came back they were abused and rejected. It

628
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 2: was a story that it was hard to understand. It

629
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: was hard to understand why people would do it. It was

630
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 2: hard to understand how people would do it. They started

631
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: to look at this particular story, the idea that there

632
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 2: were demonstrations at airports against soldiers who were returning, like, hey,

633
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 2: why would you demonstrate against people coming back? But b

634
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: how would you do it? How do you organize an

635
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: demonstration at an airport. Security at airports even then was tight,

636
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: and soldiers coming back they actually had to be paid.

637
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: They have to be paid off by a pay master

638
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: at the airport. So this military police said this, our

639
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: military police, there's soldiers coming off the plane. These stories

640
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: can't they can't have happened. There's no record anywhere. Quantits

641
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: have no record of the airport has no record of him.

642
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: The so called Skippy squadron, who would a quantit of

643
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: staff who ferried those soldiers who came back with conners

644
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: back and forth from Vietnam, can't find record of them,

645
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 2: And they've tried the no newspaper reports of these things happening.

646
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: The first time anybody said anything about there being airport

647
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: demonstrations anywhere in the world against Vietnam veterans was in

648
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: the Jane Fonder movie Coming Home.

649
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: And let's just we'll go into how this sort of

650
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: came into being, but just quickly rattle off for us,

651
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: what the actual sort of myth, if you like, we

652
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 1: can call it that now, was what actually happened at

653
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: Mascot Airport when these vets were supposed to have returned home.

654
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: Well, this particular story has I think one hundred and

655
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: fifty vets coming back into Mascot, relieved to get out

656
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 2: of a war zone, to find themselves in you know

657
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: what is another war zone. There's three hundred and fifty

658
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: students waiting for them with placards saying baby killers. And

659
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: they come off the plane. The students spit, they throw tomatoes.

660
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 2: They're quite often tomatoes in these stories. I don't know why,

661
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: and then they get beaten up by the soldiers, which

662
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 2: is what would happen in real life. There's no mention

663
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 2: of the armed the armed military police what they were

664
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: supposed to have done.

665
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: And so you mentioned the official record of the contemporaneous evidence.

666
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: There's nothing or nothing at all, and it springs to life,

667
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: if I'm right, I think in the nineteen eighties, Is

668
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: that right?

669
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: The stories kind of begin to trickle out in nineteen

670
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: eighty two, is that. I think that's the very first

671
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: one that I traced, And that's that's quite a small example.

672
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: A guy comes off a plane. I think he's met

673
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 2: by three student protesters, one of whom is a woman,

674
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: and she shouts at him and the spittle, I guess,

675
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: lands on him. But yeah, they really really multiply around

676
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: the time of the Welcome Home Parade in nineteen eighty seven,

677
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 2: And that's in part because Vietnam veterans had a huge

678
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: voice around that time. They were more prominent, and they

679
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 2: had been since the return from Vietnam. But the point

680
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 2: I guess I can much going to make in my

681
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: books is before that, there was no sense that this

682
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: had happened. When the vets you hear all these stories,

683
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: there were no welcome home parades. In the final the

684
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 2: addition of the bulletin to mark the end of the

685
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 2: Australians partner of Vietnam conflicts in nineteen seventy two, there's

686
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 2: a big picture of welcome Home parade and the caption

687
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: Welcome home parades were a regular part of Australian life

688
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: during the war, so we got a very different picture

689
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: of what the homecoming was like now than what we

690
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: had then, and it's been very interesting and surprising to trace.

691
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: I guess how that grew up.

692
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: And I think if I remember correctly the detail and

693
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 1: the sort of I suppose escalation of this story because,

694
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: like so many other stories, if someone tells that, someone says, oh, yeah,

695
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: that's right, I remember that, and then that sort of

696
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, yeah. But there was an exercise where vets

697
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: were asked to write about their sort of experiences of

698
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: coming home, either in a memoirs sort of what they

699
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: remembered or sort of as how they felt, or as

700
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: a sort of imaginative kind of exercise in how they

701
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: felt about things. And this is where that story came

702
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: out of.

703
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: Actually, it came out of a creative writing class for

704
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: veterans in WA and was first published in a pamphlet

705
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: by I think W I think it was a DVA

706
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: in Wa to mark the homecoming parade. But yeah, some

707
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: of the some of the work that people did was

708
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 2: memoir someone was fiction. And this is clearly fiction. There's

709
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: no name attached to it. You know, it's a vocal

710
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 2: mic yeah, right, So it's a noymous county. Does it

711
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: think it's a work of fiction, possibly a cathartic exercise

712
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: for him, Yes, certainly. I mean it's all cathartic. A

713
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: revenge fantasy is, you know, almost as cathartic as revenge.

714
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: So I find and I find this fascinating as well,

715
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: like not necessarily that. And you hear historians talk about

716
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: this from time time about other things, But it almost

717
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether it happened or not, so much as

718
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: this is how this guy clearly felt. This is how

719
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: he felt he was people were seeing him and what

720
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: he felt they were thinking about him, even if that

721
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: actual physical altercation never happened.

722
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it took me a long time to

723
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 2: come to that conclusion, but yeah, you're you're right. I

724
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: think it's very difficult to explain a feeling to someone.

725
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: You know, they come back and they feel rejected by students.

726
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: You know, it's quite easy to see how they could

727
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 2: have done anymore. They feel that the banners aimed against them,

728
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: you know, when they see a banner saying in a

729
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 2: picture of a demonstration that says and babies talking about

730
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: my life, then they feel they're being called baby killers.

731
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: They feel they're having these black eyes away from their faces.

732
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: But you know, if you say, oh, I feel I

733
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: feel like people don't.

734
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: Like me, you know.

735
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, But you know, you put flesh on those bones,

736
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: you give it a story, you give it actuality, you

737
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 2: give the you give the enemy a face, and yeah,

738
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: people understand the story that way.

739
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: I think that's why I did, and that's why I

740
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: found it story. I mean, I was. I just happened

741
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,479
Speaker 1: to have finished reading A history of Stalingrad and World,

742
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: which is the most miserable thing you could possibly do

743
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: if you ever want, if feeling too happy and you

744
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: want to get depressed, read that book. Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible, obviously.

745
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: But I've already upset myself with.

746
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: Every time people said sort of react, oh my god.

747
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: But I suppose just that that idea that you know

748
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: you're going over there, you don't know if you're going

749
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: to make it back or not. You're going you know,

750
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 1: you're very possibly going to die, and then to come

751
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 1: back either intact, traumatized, wounded, knowing that mates of yours

752
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: have died, and then to be told that not only

753
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: was it kind of awe for nothing, but that you

754
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: were on the wrong side. That must really screw with

755
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: people like that, must, you know, And again that is

756
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: why I think you would have someone writing that thing

757
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: that this is what it feels like when you say

758
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: I risk my life for an evil cause, for a

759
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: bad cause. I mean, that's a horrible thing to have

760
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: to to be told. Yeah, I think there is that.

761
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: But also there's this kind of idea that's developed that

762
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: the anti war movement had hegemony and that you know,

763
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: every everybody felt this way about the Vets and they

764
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: didn't know all. You know, it was hugely popular in

765
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: conservative Australia. National service was hugely popular. What was really popular,

766
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: What wasn't what it became less popular was compulsory national

767
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 2: service overseas. But there was never never were they more

768
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: than never were there fewer than fifty percent of the population.

769
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: But the supportive of the Vietnam War. So a lot

770
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: of Vets don't have these stories. I get lots of

771
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: emails from the six or seven people who've read my books.

772
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: This podcast that we do that crossover.

773
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: Saying yeah, I had a great homecoming. I don't know

774
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: where this comes from. Yeah, they were massively supported and celebrated.

775
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: Many many of them fantastic. Well, look, I think it

776
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: just makes the history that much more fascinating. We've done

777
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: extraordinary job. I could talk about it all day, but

778
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: we almost already have. It's less by Mark Dafield's Australian

779
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: War myths. There are plenty more that Mark gets into

780
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: and I can't recommend it enough, even though it just

781
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: arrived today and I've only started reading it. But it's

782
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: just so But he's right, he's so right. So he's

783
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: so right. He's a brilliant writer. I love it. And

784
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on the show, my friend. Thank you

785
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: for us, love you, thank you. Okay, and now to

786
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: your questions. I'm sorry I've been gibbering on this week,

787
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: so I've only got time for one question. Irene has

788
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: written in saying, hey, Joe, big fan of the podcast.

789
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: Thank you Irene. I'm a big fan of you. I

790
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: just wanted to know your thoughts on what a Trump

791
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 1: win would mean for Australia. Would we be better or worse? Irene?

792
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: That is a million dollar question. In fact, it's a

793
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: multi billion dollar question. Obviously. The big thing for Australia

794
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: is what it would mean for the Orcus Security Pact

795
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: and as I've sort of said before, it's not just

796
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: about submarines, although we do want to get some submarines.

797
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: We'll probably get them sometime at the end of this

798
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: century if we're lucky. But it's about just reaffirming that

799
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 1: incredibly close special relationship that Australia has with the US, who,

800
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: of course we would be expecting to come to our

801
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: aid in the event of China invading US or a

802
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: regional war around Taiwan or something like that. And of

803
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: course if the Poms want to come to that'd be nice.

804
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: We could use a couple of Harrier jump jets or

805
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 1: whatever you know. But anyway, the more the merrier. But again,

806
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: we need America at our back for strategic and security purposes,

807
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: and so anything that undermined that would be a bit

808
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: of a way. And so while I just love the

809
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: Trump Show, can't get enough of it, I'm the last person.

810
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: I'm not the sort of orange man, bad sort of

811
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: Trump hater it just because he's so incredibly entertaining and again,

812
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: as I pointed out, useful. If I had to vote,

813
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: i'd vote Democrat. But he's just so much fun to watch.

814
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: If Trump does become as he was in his first presidency,

815
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: more isolationist, less interested in America's role as a global peacekeeper,

816
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: and less interventionist. Then that could mean that he's less

817
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: concerned about orcus and that could mean, for example, that

818
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: he says no, and people have raised concerns about this already. No,

819
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: We're not going to give you these nuclear submarines because

820
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: we need them ourselves. America's security has to come first,

821
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: and there's a long sort of history of sort of

822
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: America first isolationist foreign policy. I'm also worried about what

823
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: it would mean for the war in Ukraine. I know

824
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: that doesn't directly involve Australia, but there are plenty of

825
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: noises from both Trump and his new Vice president JD. Vans,

826
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: who I also otherwise find very very interesting, but that

827
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: they are skeptical about Zelenski and Ukraine's claim that they

828
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: are perhaps even sympathetic to the idea wrongly in my view,

829
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: that Ukraine sort of brought this on themselves, and that

830
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: Puden has some kind of strategic or historic justification for invading.

831
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: So I'd be worried about that just from a kind

832
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: of humanitarian standpoint, because if all the support from America

833
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: drives up that makes Ukraine's job a lot harder. They

834
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: rely a lot on American funding and equipment, and if

835
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: they withdrew from UCUS, or if Aucust was watered down,

836
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: or we didn't get the full consignment of subs that

837
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: we ordered again going to be a long time coming

838
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: at the best of times, then that could be a

839
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: bit of a problem. So I have to say we'd

840
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: probably be worse off in Australia. Having said that, Trump

841
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: would be so entertaining that maybe that would make up

842
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: for it. Anyway, that's all we have time for today.

843
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to the Real Story.

844
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: If you love what you're hear, of course leave a

845
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: rating and review. And if you hate what you're here,

846
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 1: don't tell a soul. If you want us to cover

847
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: anything on the Pod Pod, I don't say pod. I'm

848
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: forty eight years old, for God's sake. On the Pod Podcast.

849
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: Reach out via our socials via email the Real Story

850
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: at Nova Podcasts dot com dot au. We can slide

851
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: into my dms on the gram. My handle is at

852
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: Joe Underscore Hildebrand and of course you can always read

853
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: my columns every Monday and Saturday in the Daily Telegraph.

854
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: Take care, thanks for listening, and i'll speak to you

855
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: next week.