WEBVTT - Emily Maitlis on Epstein, Andrew, and the new world order

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<v Speaker 1>It was twenty nineteen when journalist Emily Matless sat down

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<v Speaker 1>for that card crash interview with then Prince Andrew.

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<v Speaker 2>She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating, and

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<v Speaker 2>that she went on to have Bob possibly there's.

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<v Speaker 3>A slight problem with the sweating because I have a

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<v Speaker 3>peculiar medical condition, which is that I don't sweat.

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<v Speaker 1>It was the beginning of the end for the Prince.

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<v Speaker 4>A huge moment for the royal family. Prince Andrew is

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<v Speaker 4>stepping back from royal duties as the fallout from his

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<v Speaker 4>BBC News Night interview continues.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Andrew mount Batten Windsor has again hit the headlines,

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<v Speaker 1>this time for allegedly sharing secret trade documents with Jeffrey Epstein,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's the fallout from the Epstein files threatens to

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<v Speaker 1>take down everyone from ambassadors to prime ministers. Emily Maetless

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<v Speaker 1>again has a front row seat as the saga unfold.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is i would say, probably one of

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest political corruption scandals we've ever seen in our lifetime.

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<v Speaker 2>She has it. I'm described in the cat.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Nicole Johnston and you're listening to seven AM today.

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<v Speaker 1>Emily matelers from the Newsagent's podcast on Andrew, the Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>files and how Trump is reshaping Europe. It's Wednesday, February eighteen. So, Emily,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot has happened since your infamous interview with then

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<v Speaker 1>Prince Andrew over the Epstein scandal. There's now pressure on

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<v Speaker 1>police to investigate Andrew Mountbatten windsor why hasn't that happened?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a really good question. I mean, ah, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a phrase that's used in sort of political theory, which

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<v Speaker 2>is slowly and then suddenly, and that feels like where

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<v Speaker 2>we are now. Things could have started six years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>but they didn't. And I think human nature is not

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<v Speaker 2>to do anything until you have to. And now everyone

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of looking at whether it's the politics, whether

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<v Speaker 2>it's the DOJ in the US, whether it's the palace here,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone is now looking and saying, what's going on? Why

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<v Speaker 2>aren't you moving quickly? And that's why things are happening.

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<v Speaker 2>So I guess the pressure has come from the victims

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<v Speaker 2>themselves for so long, And I guess now we've got

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<v Speaker 2>all the Epstein files, it's on us. It's on us

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<v Speaker 2>as journalists and reporters, and it's on the prosecutors and

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<v Speaker 2>the lawyers and the institutions like Congress and the Metropolitan

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<v Speaker 2>Police and the Palace to say yeah, we hear you.

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<v Speaker 2>We're doing this now.

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<v Speaker 1>So emily, with that crescendo really building, how does the

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<v Speaker 1>British public feel about Andrew now that all of this

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<v Speaker 1>has come to light, and how does it affect how

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<v Speaker 1>they also see the royals more broadly.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the tide turned on Andrew pretty quickly after

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<v Speaker 2>that relationship with Epstein was exposed. And I would say

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<v Speaker 2>that we didn't really understand Epstein. You know, for years

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<v Speaker 2>there was this sort of shadowy name. We'd had our

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<v Speaker 2>own scandal, we had the Jimmy Savile scandal. He was

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<v Speaker 2>the worst pedophile any of us could ever imagine, and

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<v Speaker 2>Epstein was kind of like somebody else's problem. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it was over there. We didn't really get it. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think now we really understand the depth and the

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<v Speaker 2>breadth of the depravity and of that power. Circle.

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<v Speaker 5>Pictures appearing to show Andrew man Batten Windsor crouched over

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<v Speaker 5>an unidentified woman are featured in the latest disclosure of

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<v Speaker 5>files linked to the late American sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

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<v Speaker 5>The images are among.

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<v Speaker 2>More, and I think that there is a fury. Actually,

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<v Speaker 2>there is a few around Andrew and what was tolerated

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<v Speaker 2>for so long. And obviously I have to say he

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<v Speaker 2>denies all wrongdoing. That is something that every journalist still

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<v Speaker 2>puts as an addendum in all their reporting, and we

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<v Speaker 2>will stick to that because legally that is the case.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you ask me about public perception, yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not great. It's not great. And my sense is that

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<v Speaker 2>King Charles knows that this is a really delicate moment

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<v Speaker 2>actually for the monarchy.

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<v Speaker 3>King Charles' first public appearance since the latest Epstein Farles

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<v Speaker 3>relays this was inevitable, Your.

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<v Speaker 1>Majesty, will your family help with the Epstein investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there is still a proper solid majority in

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<v Speaker 2>favor of the monarchy and the royal family, but there

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<v Speaker 2>are more questions about transparency, more questions about the money

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<v Speaker 2>being spent. But I do think that the King feels

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<v Speaker 2>that this is a fairly critical moment actually, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's why we've seen such dramatic steps in the

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<v Speaker 2>last six months, even before the release of the Epstein files.

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<v Speaker 2>The removal of the titles, removal of the housing and

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<v Speaker 2>Royal Lodge, and all the rest of it, I think

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<v Speaker 2>was the King sort of saying, yeah, I'm not going

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<v Speaker 2>to be party to this. I'm not going to let

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<v Speaker 2>you bring down the whole.

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<v Speaker 1>House and look. Aside from the royal family, the Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>files have obviously been causing huge political problems for the

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<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister Kirs Stammer. He's been blamed for appointing Lord

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Mendelsson as US ambassador.

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<v Speaker 4>I am sorry, sorry for what was done to you,

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<v Speaker 4>Sorry that so many people with power failed you. Sorry

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<v Speaker 4>for having believed Mandelsson's lies and appointed him.

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<v Speaker 1>So could you take us through what we know about

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<v Speaker 1>MENDELSSHN and the Stein files.

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<v Speaker 2>So the appointment of Lord Mandelssoh in January of last

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<v Speaker 2>year was not, and I should say it was not

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<v Speaker 2>greeted by howls of condemnation at the time. If you

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<v Speaker 2>look at the press, you know there were different people saying, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, is he the right man for the job,

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<v Speaker 2>he's too close to Europe? Is he the right man

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<v Speaker 2>for the job, he's too close to China. But people

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<v Speaker 2>weren't at that point talking about his relationship with Epstein,

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<v Speaker 2>and I do think that's important to remember. But it

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<v Speaker 2>became apparent last September that he had a much closer

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with Epstein than anyone had realized. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>the clanger was when we realized that he had been

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<v Speaker 2>serving as Business Secretary, He'd been brought in by Gordon

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<v Speaker 2>Brown's government just after the financial crash, and he still

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<v Speaker 2>somehow deemed it wise to call up Jeffrey Epstein to

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<v Speaker 2>stay at his house in New York whilst Jeffrey Epstein

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<v Speaker 2>was serving a prison sentence. Now, the idea that there

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<v Speaker 2>was a person right at the heart of government who

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<v Speaker 2>was a sort of de facto deputy Prime Minister who

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<v Speaker 2>still thought it was okay to be hanging out and

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<v Speaker 2>hanging in the house of Jeffrey Epstein whilst Epstein was

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<v Speaker 2>in prison was something that I think the Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 2>then found it impossible to ignore, and he was fired

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<v Speaker 2>by kirst Armer and the story might have ended there.

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<v Speaker 2>But the release of the files has shown us how

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<v Speaker 2>much worse it was. That it wasn't just that Manilson

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<v Speaker 2>was staying in Epstein's house. It wasn't just that he'd

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<v Speaker 2>lied about the length and the intensity of that relationship,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was the fact, as we are now led

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<v Speaker 2>to believe from these emails that Manson appeared to be

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<v Speaker 2>pushing government business speeches, decisions, policies directly towards Epstein before

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<v Speaker 2>the British public even knew about them. Epstein knew about

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<v Speaker 2>the euro bailout that was meant to save the banking

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<v Speaker 2>system in the financial crash before we did. Epstein knew

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<v Speaker 2>about Gordon Brown's resignation before we did, and that has

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<v Speaker 2>just put it in a whole different category. It is

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<v Speaker 2>something that I don't think anyone could have imagined that

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<v Speaker 2>you would have a de facto deputy Prime Minister working

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<v Speaker 2>against the interests of the British government in the years

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<v Speaker 2>following the greatest financial crash we've ever seen, when our

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<v Speaker 2>country was absolutely on its knees, and would be taking

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<v Speaker 2>what he knew to a billionaire before his own.

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<v Speaker 1>Country coming up, Why twenty twenty eight could be a

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<v Speaker 1>turning point for the world Emily if we could move

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<v Speaker 1>on to the unique security conference that we just had

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<v Speaker 1>on the weekend now. Last year we had that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of shocking speech from JD Vans to the European leaders.

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<v Speaker 6>The threat that I worry the most about Visa e

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<v Speaker 6>Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not any

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<v Speaker 6>other external actor. And what I worry about is the

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<v Speaker 6>threat from within the retreat of Europe from some of

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<v Speaker 6>its most fundamental values, values shared with the United States

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<v Speaker 6>of America and Britain and across Europe. Free speech, I

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<v Speaker 6>fear is in retreat.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone was waiting to see what would be said this

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<v Speaker 1>time round, but the US, it seems it did tone

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<v Speaker 1>down its message, sending Secretary of State Marco Rubio. How

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<v Speaker 1>are European leaders, including the UK, responding to that message

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<v Speaker 1>from the UN out of Munich, especially after what happened

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<v Speaker 1>in Venezuela and Greenland? Are they buying any of it?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, Marco is the sort of family friendly

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<v Speaker 2>cabinet member. He's the one that they sort of allowed

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<v Speaker 2>loose at Munich this year after how badly JD Vance

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<v Speaker 2>went down last year. But I'm not sure that in

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<v Speaker 2>substance there was anything very different.

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<v Speaker 7>We want allies who are proud of their culture and

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<v Speaker 7>of their heritage, who understand that we are heirs to

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<v Speaker 7>the same great and noble civilization, and who together with us,

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<v Speaker 7>are willing and able to defend it.

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<v Speaker 2>I spent last week with an EU ambassador and a

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<v Speaker 2>NATO foreign minister, and I was asking about the whole

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with America now, and I'm starting to sense there

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<v Speaker 2>is a kind of creeping distaste amongst some leaders with

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<v Speaker 2>the way Mark Rutter is sort of handling things NATO

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<v Speaker 2>Secretary General, because the whole sort of you know, pacification

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<v Speaker 2>of Trump, which has been going on now for a year,

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<v Speaker 2>and we saw it in the Hague last June, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the NATO gathering where Mark Ruster was sort of calling

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<v Speaker 2>Trump daddy and all the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 1>He's quite fawning.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was fawny, and it was quite Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 2>quite hard to listen to.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm let him fight for about two or three minutes,

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<v Speaker 1>then it's easy to step up.

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<v Speaker 4>And then has sometimes strong language, strong.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that might have worked for the week.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Trump went off happy in June. But it

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<v Speaker 2>didn't stop anything, you know, didn't didn't stop Trump still

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<v Speaker 2>turning on NATO, didn't stop Trump from still threatening to

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<v Speaker 2>invade Greenland. It didn't stop Trump from saying, oh, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't believe that NATO would come to America's rescue. Didn't

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<v Speaker 2>stop Trump from virtually anything that he'd kind of considered doing.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know that sort of pandering to whatever Trump

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<v Speaker 2>decides this week is necessarily going to be a secure

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<v Speaker 2>footing for the EU, or for NATO or for our

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<v Speaker 2>future sort of autonomy on defense or spending. And so

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<v Speaker 2>my sense is that people came away from Munich more

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<v Speaker 2>relieved this year than they did last year. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think the bigger questions, the existential questions, remain, which is

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<v Speaker 2>is America still an active ally for NATO? Is it

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<v Speaker 2>still a place that you would trust? Do believe that

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<v Speaker 2>he's going to leave Greenland alone? Do you believe he's

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<v Speaker 2>going to leave Canada alone? And so I think that

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<v Speaker 2>NATO would be foolish to think that everything had calmed

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<v Speaker 2>down just because they sent Marco Rubio, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>that they probably wouldn't do themselves any favors by thinking

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<v Speaker 2>that things are all going to go back to normal

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<v Speaker 2>if they do what Trump says.

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<v Speaker 1>And Emily, I mean, it's pretty clear that that's what

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<v Speaker 1>the Unique Security Conference thinks. They put out that report

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<v Speaker 1>talking about this new era with a lust for destruction,

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<v Speaker 1>that the international order is under threat. Is Europe divided

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<v Speaker 1>though about what to do about it? And what do

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<v Speaker 1>you think all of this actually means for the world

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<v Speaker 1>order as we've known it, and as Europe's known it

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<v Speaker 1>since nine peint forty five.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Europe's asking itself some really big questions now. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>the divide is between those countries that border Russia and

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<v Speaker 2>those countries that are much further south. And if you

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<v Speaker 2>talk to EU leaders from Spain and from Portugal and

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<v Speaker 2>from Greece, they'll say the biggest problem for Europe is immigration.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the northern countries don't understand what it's like

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<v Speaker 2>to have this implect of migrants, particularly from the Middle East,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly from Africa. We're right at the forefront of that.

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<v Speaker 2>We're having to deal with that day in and day out.

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<v Speaker 2>If you talk to the Poles and the Estonians, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the Finns, the people who actually border Russia, they say,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got a war on our border. You know, our

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<v Speaker 2>defense spending is already about five percent our defense spending.

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<v Speaker 2>We've already got conscription, We've already got literally, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>young men and women in our villages who are armed,

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<v Speaker 2>who know that they may have to respond at any

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<v Speaker 2>moment to an incursion by Russia. And so you can

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<v Speaker 2>see how Europe is sort of facing two different directions

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<v Speaker 2>at the moment. Is it the end of the old order?

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<v Speaker 2>I was talking to somebody who was very close to

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<v Speaker 2>the Clinton advisor actually last week, who said, twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>eight is going to be the most important presidential election

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<v Speaker 2>of any of our lifetimes, because that is the point

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<v Speaker 2>at which we will work out whether it was Trump

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<v Speaker 2>and it was Trump only Maga lived and died with Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>or whether that is the future direction. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's why the Democrats know that this is this is

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 2>a really risky time, you know, twenty tw If they're

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<v Speaker 2>not in power, then then they've basically waved goodbye to

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<v Speaker 2>the old world order.

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<v Speaker 1>Emily, thank you so much for speaking with us.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Emily Mateless will appear in Melbourne presented by the Wheeler

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<v Speaker 1>Center on March five, and at the All About Women

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<v Speaker 1>Festival in Sydney on March eight. Also in the news,

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<v Speaker 1>police are investigating after a stabbing spree that left one

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<v Speaker 1>person dead and two critically injured in Western Sydney. Witnesses

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<v Speaker 1>have described sprinting to escape a man they say stabbed

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 1>multiple people at random on a busy street in Maryland,

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<v Speaker 1>a man has been arrested and the PM says he

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<v Speaker 1>has no sympathy for a group of thirty four Australian

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<v Speaker 1>women and children trying to return home from Syria. The women,

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<v Speaker 1>known as the Isis Brides, have been stuck in a

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<v Speaker 1>Syrian detention camp for seven years, trying and failing this

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<v Speaker 1>week to come back to Australia, but Albinizi says the

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<v Speaker 1>government won't be repatriating the group, who have links to

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<v Speaker 1>Islamic state fighters. I'm Nicole Johnson. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.