1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: From the newsroom at news dot Com today. You gooday there. 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: I'm Andrew Bucklow and we have got some great stories 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: online for you at news dot com dot Au right now, 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 2: including the latest on cyclone Alfred. This thing is a 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: little bit worrying, isn't it. It's expected to wreak havoc 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: in Queensland and New South Wales when it makes landfall 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: later in the week. Go to our side, get the 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: latest and make sure that you are prepared. 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: On a lighter note, our lifestyle. 10 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: Team have done a deep dive on Australia's hot cross 11 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: bun wars. 12 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: Oh yes, we cover the big topics. 13 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: Here's what one of our editors had to say about 14 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 2: this story in our daily editorial meeting Aldi. 15 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 3: And Ida is waiting with their ridiculous combos. I think 16 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 3: Aldi just released the Banoffy pie one. Do you have 17 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 3: Release's favorite worries too much? I just like whatever happened 18 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 3: to just like straight old across buns. 19 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: Is it just me ornest? 20 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: But Noffy pie flavored hot crossbuns sound like the greatest 21 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: thing ever invented? 22 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: Sign me up. 23 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 2: I also want to mention a touching story our sports 24 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: team have online for you right now. It's about an 25 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: athlete who lost some loved ones in a recent plane crash. 26 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 2: This ice skater over in America and tears up to 27 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: doing this performance. 28 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: His parents had just died in that crash in Washington, 29 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 3: so he's like crying during his routine as unserved. 30 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: I'll tell you the footage in that article is absolutely heartbreaking, 31 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: so make sure you have some tissues handy when you 32 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: watch that. There's one other story online right now at 33 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: news dot com dot a you that really grabbed my attention. 34 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: It's the story I'm actually going to focus on in 35 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: this episode. Did you know that police detectives right here 36 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 2: in Australia regularly use psychics to help them solve cases. 37 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: It sounds crazy, but it is one hundred percent true. 38 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: The journalists behind this expose is going to join me 39 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: in just a moment to reveal which high profile cases 40 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 2: psychics have worked on and the big question if they've 41 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: ever been successful. Journalist Gary nine is a news dot 42 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: com Dot a U contributory. Is also an author who's 43 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: written a book called The Psychic Tests and Adventure into 44 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: the World of Believers and Skeptics. He joins me now, Gary, 45 00:01:59,120 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: thanks for jumping on the. 46 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: Good talk to you. 47 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: You have written a fascinating piece for our side about 48 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: the fact that police detectives in Australia sometimes use psychics 49 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: or mediums to help them solve the case of a 50 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: missing or a murdered person. 51 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: This is mind blowing to me. How common is it? 52 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? 53 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're using public money to employ the semi season 54 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 4: of psychics and media games to help them with murder 55 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 4: and mission passent cases. I decided to do a freedom 56 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 4: of information request on the New South Wales Police Force, 57 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 4: and that's because there were a couple of big cases 58 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 4: happening there, and one in particular was the case of 59 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 4: Lynett Dawson, who featured the Teacher's podcast. 60 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 5: It took a five hour verdict, a ten week trial, 61 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 5: and forty agonizing years, but tonight the family of Lynette 62 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 5: Dawson finally has justice. Chris Dawson has been found guilty 63 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 5: of murdering the mother of two who disappeared from their 64 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 5: family home on Sydney's Northern Beaches in nineteen eighty two. 65 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 4: I knew that a psychic had been used in that 66 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 4: case because I'd listened to the podcast and I was 67 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 4: kind of taken aback by how much time this will 68 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 4: be Award Winny Podcast had given to this psychic, and 69 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 4: you know, she helped guide the investigation and they dig 70 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 4: under the pool on her spiritual guidance, and of course 71 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 4: they don't find anything. 72 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: Lynett's body remains missing to this day. 73 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 4: So I knew that they'd been at least one case 74 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 4: where New South Wallest Police had used the services of 75 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: a psychic. So I decided I would do a Freedom 76 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 4: of information request on the New South Wales Police Force 77 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 4: just to see how many others. So I discovered that 78 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 4: they'd used psychics at least nineteen times in their investigations 79 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,119 Speaker 4: in sixteen years to twenty nineteen. And they also told 80 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 4: me that the actual figure was probably higher because only 81 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 4: a limited number of their databases are covered by the 82 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 4: FOI requests handled by the New South Wales Police Force. 83 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 4: So yeah, that's more than once a year, which to 84 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,839 Speaker 4: my mind, someone who is very skeptical of the woo 85 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 4: woo was mine behave. 86 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: And it's not just police in New South Wales, right, 87 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: police forces overseas are using psychic mediums as well. 88 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and in other states in Australia as well. 89 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 4: So one of the other things that I did is 90 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 4: that I investigated where else it was happening. I know 91 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 4: it's happening in Victoria. Is a former detective sergeant. His 92 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 4: name is Colin McClaren, and he said today, any detective 93 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 4: at the top of their game will have highly credentialed 94 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 4: psychics in their kit bag, along with forensics, singer prints, 95 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 4: and DNA. So he's admitted that that's something that he 96 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 4: used in his job. And then another one, former detective 97 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 4: senior constable. His name is Jeffrey Little. He admitted that 98 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 4: they paid the psychic's expenses, so they hadn't just used 99 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 4: police time, had also used public money to pay the 100 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 4: expenses of the psychic. And he's on the record of saying, 101 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 4: one of my superiors told me not to use Debbie 102 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 4: Malone's services. Debbie Malodi is the psychic, but I ran 103 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: it past everyone working on the case and they were 104 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 4: happy to go ahead with it. Now, that's a different 105 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 4: case from Lynette Dawson, but I can tell you that 106 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 4: Debbie Malone is the same psychic who told the police 107 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 4: that they absolutely must dig under swimming pool because all 108 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 4: of the spirits for telling her that Lynette's body was there, 109 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 4: and of course it wasn't there. So I was fascinated 110 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 4: that this has proven to be ineffective. It's a waste 111 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 4: of police time, and yet the police are still listening 112 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 4: to what she says, digging where she advises them to. 113 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: I feel like it bestows upon these psychics a credibility 114 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 4: that I makes me feel quite suspicious, like it's something 115 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 4: That's why I wanted to do this investigation, because I 116 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 4: felt like it's something that needed to be exposed. 117 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: Well, some of the cases you've mentioned there the psychics 118 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: weren't successful. But in all your research, have psychics ever 119 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: been successful and helped police owver the case? 120 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,119 Speaker 3: Well, that's an easy question. 121 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 4: No, no, absolutely not one way to answered I can 122 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 4: tell you. In the case of Madeline McCann, of course, 123 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 4: very famous case. 124 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 3: She went missing in the UK, never be found. 125 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 6: On the evening of May third, two thousand and seven, 126 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 6: three year old Madeline McCann disappears from her bed while 127 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 6: on vacation with her family in Portugal. Local authorities immediately 128 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 6: launched an investigation following extensive leads, including an inquiry into 129 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 6: Madeleine's parents, Kate and Jerry McCann. Despite all the leads. 130 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 3: There have been no arrests in that case. 131 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 4: One thousand psychics got in touch with the family and 132 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 4: said they knew where Madeline McCann was, and there were 133 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 4: so many of them that the family had to hire 134 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 4: someone just to deal with them. All this again blew 135 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 4: my mind. So one psychic phoned up the police. It 136 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 4: was necessary police, and she said she knew for a 137 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 4: fact because the spirits from the bed were telling her 138 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 4: that Madeline was on a farm in Seville in Spain, 139 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 4: and based solely on that tip hop of the police 140 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 4: went to Spain and I'm quoting here kicked down some 141 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 4: farm doors. 142 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: So just off the basic this psychics tip off. They 143 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: are destroying. 144 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 4: Property, breaking to people's farms and demanding that these poor 145 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 4: farmers to explain whether or not they are harboring a 146 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 4: young girl. 147 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: Of course they're not, none of them were, and all 148 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: their farm doors need replacing. 149 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 4: So yeah, the power that these psychics have is really underinvestigated. 150 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: And I think that's often because we see it all as 151 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: a bit of. 152 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 4: A joke, and we see it all us a bit 153 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 4: of silent, and actually it gets a lot it gets 154 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 4: a lot more serious when you realize there's public money, 155 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,679 Speaker 4: place time and farmers in Spain having to explain answers 156 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 4: to these awful questions that they're not pedo files and 157 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 4: they're not child aductors. 158 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: I guess the big question is why are police using 159 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: these psychics? 160 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: Will find out why in just a moment. 161 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: Welcome back up Joanning to journalists who's written a book 162 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: called The Psychic Tests, An Adventure into the World of 163 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: Believers and Skeptics. 164 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: Gary. 165 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: As you mentioned, sometimes police detectives do use psychics to 166 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: help them try and solve a case. They've never been 167 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: successful in all the research that you've done, So the 168 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: big question is why do police use psychics or mediums. 169 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 6: Yeah. 170 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 4: When I looked into this, actually it helps contextualizing somewhat. 171 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 4: So the first reason is that all other leads go 172 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 4: cold and the family has been convinced by a psychic 173 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 4: who claims they know where the body is, and then 174 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 4: the family implore the police to listen and to act. 175 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 4: So this often winds you sightly because it made me realize. 176 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 4: You say, it's really crucial that the police keep really 177 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 4: good relations with the family, that they keep them on side, 178 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 4: that they're empathetic, that they're not dismissive, and also that 179 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 4: they're empathetic to the idiosyncratic ways in which people grieve. 180 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 4: People grieve in really different ways, and grief can make 181 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 4: you vulnerable, and when you're vulnerable, you can act in 182 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 4: ways that you never normally act. 183 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: So that happens a lot. Certainly happened with Lynnete Dawson. 184 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 4: Linett's daughter Chanel was very into psychics, so she reveals 185 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 4: in her recent book, and actually it was psychics who helped. 186 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 3: Her to come to accept her dad's guilt. 187 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 4: She was absolutely in denial over Chris Dawson's guilt and 188 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 4: no one could convince her of that, and then the 189 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 4: psychics helped her kind of come to her own conclusion 190 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 4: that he probably is guilty. 191 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: So yeah, so that's some reason. 192 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 4: The second reason is that psychopaths like to play games 193 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 4: and se mess with the police, and this also softened 194 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 4: my view somewhat. So they could be the killab so 195 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 4: they could sowon the place we are coded information under 196 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 4: the guise of being a psychic, and it could be 197 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 4: kind of a cat and mouse game, and investigators have 198 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 4: to take that possibility very seriously and they have to 199 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 4: know it in their databases. So that could account for 200 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 4: some of those some of those nineteen cases in my 201 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 4: FOI request. But the final reason, and we know this 202 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 4: from the Lynette Dawson case, and we know it'srom Madame 203 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 4: McCann case and various some of them missing person cases, 204 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 4: is simply, there are psychic believers in the piece. 205 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: Wow, but how can they be believers when there's no 206 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: evidence in past investigations that they actually work. 207 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: Well, there's no evidence that God exists, and some of 208 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: them still going to show. 209 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: Okay, that is a fair answer. 210 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: Gary, I mentioned that book that you've written, The Psychic 211 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: Test and Adventure into the World of Believers and Skeptics 212 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 2: tell me more about this than what it was you uncovered. 213 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 4: So there's never been a book before to my knowledge, 214 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 4: that had spoke to skeptics and believers equally, and so 215 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 4: I wanted to do a book that spoke to both 216 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 4: and sort of trying to find some neutral ground. The 217 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 4: probably said the book is whether you believe in psychics 218 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 4: or not, they are likely to impact who will date you, 219 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 4: who will hire you, and who will trust you. And 220 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 4: that is because very powerful people are hiring them, fining 221 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 4: psychics and paining them to advise them on juggernal decisions 222 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 4: that will have a massive impact on your life. And 223 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 4: there were two reasons that I know that one's personal 224 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 4: and one's a bit more universal. The personal reason early 225 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 4: was when our dad died. My sister, who'd always been 226 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 4: really neat to psychics and I'd always sort of taken 227 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 4: the mickey out of her for it, grew a lot 228 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 4: darker and deeper because she was hiring all these different 229 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 4: mediums to try and reconnect with our dads from the dead, 230 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 4: and I grew concerned that her grief was being exploited 231 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 4: for money, and I grew concerned that she was being 232 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 4: free framed in the bargaining or denial phase of grief 233 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 4: when she needed to move through all of those five 234 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 4: phases of grief. I was leaving with that concern, and 235 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 4: then around the same time I reported on the story 236 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 4: in Australia, and it was the biggest stockbroking firm in 237 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 4: Australia called Bibi. Their chairman, their executive chairman had hired 238 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 4: a psychic and paid her for four years. She advised 239 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 4: him on where to invest the company's stocks and shares, 240 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 4: and not just that, but she'd also advising on who 241 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 4: to hire and who to fire. So she would say, oh, 242 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 4: the spirits are predicting that Andrew is not going to 243 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 4: perform very well next month, so you need to find 244 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 4: a way of firing him. 245 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: And that's how he ran the company for four years. 246 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 4: And so and she was incredible, shared her own line 247 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 4: in the budget and everything. Anyways, after running a company 248 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 4: like this for four years, it went busts and it 249 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 4: was the biggest stop breaking firm cups since the global 250 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 4: financial crisis. That he was put on the dock for 251 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 4: corporate mismanagement in the liquidator's report. And then the psychic 252 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 4: was called just the main witness, and she revealed everything then. 253 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 4: And so the book starts with me getting a reading 254 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 4: from her, because a lot of the believers would say 255 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 4: to me, well, you know, it depends how good they are. Like, 256 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 4: you know, i'd be like, isn't this isn't this woo woo? 257 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 4: Like isn't this like mind blow? As you know, you'd 258 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 4: be surprised. There's quite a lot of people who keep 259 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 4: their belief quite secretly because they fear that they'll be 260 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 4: laughed at, or their credibility will be questioned, those kind 261 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 4: of things. But anyway, and so I got reading from her, 262 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 4: and then I got a new hunch. The new hunt 263 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 4: was maybe the people that seek out Psychic Council aren't, 264 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 4: in fact, as i'd first considered, like my sister, who 265 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 4: was greasy and fragile and vulnerable and as a result 266 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 4: of that, perhaps quite naive and gullible. 267 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 3: Maybe they were like him. 268 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 4: This Glenn Rosewall was his name, who ran this stock 269 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 4: breaking company. Maybe they were like him, which was powerful 270 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 4: and also repative and responsible for hundreds of staff and 271 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 4: as it turns out, sixty one million dollars of other 272 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 4: people's money he lost by running the company in that way. 273 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 4: And so that's when the book starts, and then it 274 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 4: goes into the well. There's other chief execs of major companies, 275 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 4: the police, and also world leaders, and I lift the 276 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 4: need on those very powerful positions who are secretly seeking 277 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 4: out psychics to advise them on really big decisions. 278 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: World leaders including presidents, prime ministers. 279 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 4: Yep, yep, wow, yeah, Okay, So like Ronald Reagan was 280 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 4: the same. It was psychic dictated his every move and 281 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 4: currently in Argentina, Theresa he does sessions with medianos who 282 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 4: conjured the spirits of his dead dogs who is obsessed 283 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: with to help him in culmulate policy. 284 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 3: Strange be true is unbelievable. 285 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 2: It sounds like a ripper of a book. I'm going 286 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: to go, reader, Gary Nunn, thank you so much for 287 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: chatting to from the Newsroom. 288 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 3: You're welcome, Andrews. 289 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: Before I let you go, I thought i'd tell you 290 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: a very quick story about the time I went and 291 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 2: saw a psychic. It was when I was a poor 292 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: UNI student in Canberra, and the psychic told me that 293 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: I had two people watching over me, an angel called 294 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: Tara and my late grandfather Harry. After the reading that night, 295 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: I went to a charity fundraiser and there was a raffle. 296 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: Right. 297 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 2: The main prize was one hundred dollars, which to a 298 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 2: poor UNI student was kind of like winning the lotto. 299 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: I bought the ticket and I remember closing my eyes 300 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: before the draw and asking for help from Harry and Tara. 301 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: And guess what, our bloody won the raffle. How about that? 302 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: Spooky huh? All right? Thanks for listening to from the Newsroom. 303 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: Follow us, subscribe to from the Newsroom wherever you get 304 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: your podcasts.