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Speaker 1: And it's all about lazy crooks wanting to make easy money.

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Speaker 2: And you don't even have to be in the country

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Speaker 2: to do it.

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Speaker 1: I have to be in the country to do it.

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Speaker 1: It's apparently being orchestrated. From a long way off.

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Speaker 3: There was this rural sort of dirt road area next

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Speaker 3: to this farming land, all flat land, and the body

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Speaker 3: of the Point called woman, miss Mnaghani, was found in

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Speaker 3: the bin. It's as grim as you can imagine.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Ruhle. Welcome back to Life and Crimes. We

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Speaker 1: are here again with Anthony Dowsley, Olivia Jenkins and Reagan Hodge.

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Speaker 1: There has been a year full of events. There's been

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Speaker 1: crimes of all sorts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Andrew, it's been quite a year in crime. We

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Speaker 2: talked about a few last week, but there's a lot

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Speaker 2: we haven't touched on, like the tobacco wars or the

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Speaker 2: missing campus trial. But one of the more chilling stories

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Speaker 2: from earlier in the year was the body in the

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Speaker 2: Wheely being case that you covered, Reagan.

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Speaker 1: What's the really really true story about that one?

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Speaker 3: So a Melbourne woman called Schwetze Mattagani from Point Cook

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Speaker 3: was found in tragic circumstances. She was found in a

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Speaker 3: bin out in a town called Buckley, which has just

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Speaker 3: passed Geelong in the States West. She was found on Saturday,

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Speaker 3: March nine. It was a stinking hot day. I remember

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Speaker 3: I was out in Bananyong working on the Samantha Murphy disappearance.

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Speaker 3: Somebody texted me that police had made a pretty grizzly

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Speaker 3: discovery on this rural property out near Geelong. You're going

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Speaker 3: to want to take a look at it. And in

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Speaker 3: the hours after that the homicide squad were called out

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Speaker 3: to Buckley. It was this rural sort of dirt road

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Speaker 3: area next to this farming land, all flat land, and

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Speaker 3: the body of the point cook woman, miss Mataghaney was

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Speaker 3: found in the bin. It's as grim as you can imagine.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's horrible.

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Speaker 3: And police over the next few days they worked too

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Speaker 3: who find out any key suspects and they identified that

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Speaker 3: her husband, Ashock raj Verkapula. I believe I've pronounced that

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Speaker 3: career and apologies, no copy and paste job. Every time

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Speaker 3: I write a story he's identified as having fled the country.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't seem that way. He's jetted off to India.

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Speaker 3: In the days after she was allegedly murdered and the

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Speaker 3: days before suspicions about that well, it's hard to tell.

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Speaker 3: At this stage. Victoria Police are still putting together a

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Speaker 3: brief of evidence to hand to the Attorney General Mark Dreyfus.

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Speaker 3: They do suspect as Shock may know something to do

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Speaker 3: with this alleged murder, and at this point in time

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Speaker 3: police are just working to get that extradition order to

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Speaker 3: haul him back to Melbourne and then potentially question him.

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Speaker 1: How do we go with extradition from India? They can

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Speaker 1: be slow, can they not?

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Speaker 3: They can be very slow and they may not lead anywhere.

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Speaker 3: We've seen panite in that case that's well publicized and

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Speaker 3: drawn out.

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Speaker 1: It's India, urban nation with a lot of people living there.

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Speaker 3: It is funny you say that the population is vast,

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Speaker 3: and somebody told me that if you're wanting to hide

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Speaker 3: in India, that's a pretty easy job.

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Speaker 1: You're a chance. I would have thought so, well, that

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Speaker 1: is an intriguing thing. When you got that text that day,

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Speaker 1: did you think, oh, this could be Samantha Murphy.

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Speaker 3: Funnily enough, it didn't click straight away, and it really

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Speaker 3: should have because I was on the job looking for

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Speaker 3: any clues of where Samantha Murphy might be. But it

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Speaker 3: did eventually, and I thought, holy hell, have we just

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Speaker 3: uncovered where she might be? But no, it was a

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Speaker 3: separate case.

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Speaker 1: Now, of course it wouldn't be a year in review

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Speaker 1: if we didn't talk about tobacco was because they happen

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Speaker 1: all the time. Every day we get up, we say,

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Speaker 1: what's the news, and there's another tobacco place that's gone up.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nightclub or god knows what what is going

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Speaker 1: on here.

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Speaker 3: So just recently, late in twenty twenty four, we've ticked

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Speaker 3: over the one hundred fire bombings mark, which is just

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Speaker 3: insane to think about. I think it was a milk

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Speaker 3: bar out at Greenvale became the one hundredth fire linked

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Speaker 3: to the illicit tobacco conflict. Now we would have spoken

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Speaker 3: about this last year. Not much has really changed. They're

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Speaker 3: still fire bombing each other's stores. It's all for control

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Speaker 3: of the illicit market, which just has so many financial

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Speaker 3: benefits attached to it.

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Speaker 1: Well, really, and we've said this before, but it's like

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Speaker 1: prohibition in America one hundred years ago, where politicians said, right,

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Speaker 1: we're going to prohibit alcohol and there won't be any

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Speaker 1: we're not going to sell it anywhere, And of course

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Speaker 1: the gangsters went, you'll be beuilty. We're going to make

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Speaker 1: it and sell it and speak easy to make a

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Speaker 1: lot of tax free money. And in fact, that decision

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Speaker 1: by the legislators back then, and I would argue Australia

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Speaker 1: as well, meant that crooks, the old time mafia who

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Speaker 1: used to corner the onion market and stand over the

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Speaker 1: Italian lady on the corner and all that stuff. I

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Speaker 1: turned them into the Five Families of New York, turned

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Speaker 1: them into the greatest organized crime cartels in history prohibition

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Speaker 1: because they could sell grog. And this tobacco business here

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Speaker 1: has turned these sort of glorified panel beaters that used

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Speaker 1: to steal a few cars and turned them into these

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Speaker 1: cartels that are making million bucks a day or whatever

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Speaker 1: from ilicit tobacco.

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Speaker 3: And these cartels or syndicates as we call them now,

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Speaker 3: they're making so much money because smokers every day of

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Speaker 3: the week, they'll choose to buy a pack of smokes

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Speaker 3: that's fifteen bucks instead of paying fifty sixty seventy dollars.

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Speaker 3: With this tobacco excise that keeps increasing every few months.

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Speaker 1: I know people in this building that by smokes for

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Speaker 1: eighteen dollars instead of forty eight, And how could you

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Speaker 1: blame them? No, if it's a no brainer, it's a

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Speaker 1: no brainer.

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Speaker 2: Well, the argument that chop shop is worse for you

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Speaker 2: than quote unquote regulated cigarettes isn't going to deter Howell,

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Speaker 2: who's already decided to go to the shops and buy cigarettes.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you'd wonder whether that would be true.

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Speaker 1: I don't think none of it's much good for you.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly no good. The day will come awfully when

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Speaker 1: a fire bomb will go up a little cook an

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Speaker 1: entire family that we roasted children come out of this.

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Speaker 3: I spoke to a mother in late November who told

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Speaker 3: me that her daughter had to evacuate a big department

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Speaker 3: complex out in the Western suburbs in early hours of

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Speaker 3: the morning, half past one I think it was, And

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Speaker 3: I was trying to get an interview.

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Speaker 1: With the daughter.

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Speaker 3: Obviously the below store had been firebombed that night, and

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Speaker 3: the mother said, unfortunately, she's too shaken up, she's too

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Speaker 3: sort of traumatized. She had to sort of grab her

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Speaker 3: belongings in the middle of the night and just get

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Speaker 3: out of there. Her belongings that she kept in the

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Speaker 3: house or in the apartment above were ruined because of

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Speaker 3: the smoke damage and the fire is put in the

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Speaker 3: water on it. But that's the effect of having like

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Speaker 3: she didn't even want to have a phone call to

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Speaker 3: say what she heard. How she's feeling now, and she

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Speaker 3: had to really run for her life.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's terrible and it will lead to death.

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Speaker 1: It was just awful. And it's all about lazy crooks

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Speaker 1: wanting to make easy money.

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Speaker 2: And you don't even have to be in the country

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Speaker 2: to do it.

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Speaker 1: Apparently I have to be in the country to do it.

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Speaker 1: It's apparently being orchestrated from a long way off, is

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Speaker 1: it not. That's right.

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Speaker 2: We've obviously heard of, you know, two of the main

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Speaker 2: players who really sort of kicked off the conflict that

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Speaker 2: we saw last year, and that has shown no signs

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Speaker 2: of slowing down this year. And obviously, when I say that,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about because kaz Hamad and the Melbourne based

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Speaker 2: fighting Hidara or the Hadara Klan, who have yeah, who

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Speaker 2: have history going back a long time and they've yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're inches, have obviously not stopped. But now what we're

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Speaker 2: seeing is that people have seen how lucrative the market is.

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Speaker 2: And we've got a number of major players now and

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Speaker 2: not necessarily anybody well known, and maybe people who aren't

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Speaker 2: even on our radar yet. But you've got has you know,

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Speaker 2: ringing up the phone of the local shop in Pasco

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Speaker 2: Bay or Green Value, you name it, saying you're going

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Speaker 2: to listen to me, and here's what you're going to do.

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Speaker 2: And you've got people not knowing which way to turn

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Speaker 2: because they just wanted to make a bit of extra money.

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Speaker 2: And now they've got oh yeah, now they've got a

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Speaker 2: crime boss breathing down the phone.

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Speaker 1: It is scary stuff, very bad. Now. That's one story

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Speaker 1: that aroused a lot of attention. Another one, I think

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Speaker 1: is one gatta the disappearance of the as we call them,

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Speaker 1: the two campers or the pensioners, and the subject of

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Speaker 1: Greg Linn the Jets, that Billot and of his the

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Speaker 1: acknowledged victim, Missus Clay, and of let's say, alleged victim

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Speaker 1: Russell Hill. Ye, Anthony Dowsley, talk to me about that,

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Speaker 1: talk to us about that well.

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Speaker 4: As was highly publicized back in June, a jury came

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Speaker 4: to a split decision on the murders of accusations of

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Speaker 4: Carol Clay and Russell Hill, who were killed at Bucks

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Speaker 4: Camp in the one Gatt Valley in Victoria's High Country.

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Speaker 4: It was somewhat of an odd decision or unexpected decision,

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Speaker 4: they note, but not necessarily a terrible one, terrible for

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Speaker 4: the Hill family because they found that that Lynn, that

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Speaker 4: Greg Lynn, the Jetstar pilot, had not murdered, of course,

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Speaker 4: but they did find that he had killed Carol Clay.

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Speaker 4: It leads you to the assumption that they thought that

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Speaker 4: his finger was on the trigger of the gun which

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Speaker 4: shot her as she stood apparently watching a freck car

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Speaker 4: between Greg Lynn and Russell Hill.

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Speaker 1: Those elements of that might be true.

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Speaker 4: It might be somewhat true, But obviously they did not

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Speaker 4: believe Greg Lynn's story.

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Speaker 1: He gave evidence.

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Speaker 4: He said it was all basically one accident after the other.

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Speaker 1: He did very long shots.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a fairly.

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Speaker 1: A million to one or several billion to one shot.

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Speaker 4: They would be two extraordinary, unlucky events.

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Speaker 1: In matter of a minute, Yes, exactly extraordinarily.

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Speaker 4: Since then, he's been sentenced, yep. He was given a

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Speaker 4: thirty two year jail term, which was a decent whack

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Speaker 4: was but deserving yes, and no one will be shedding

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Speaker 4: a tear for him, not many. And then he has

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Speaker 4: since appealed.

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Speaker 1: We wouldn't want to speculate about appeals. But he does

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Speaker 1: have a very fine defense barrister, does he not.

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Speaker 4: Dermit Dan is one of the best, if not the best,

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Speaker 4: in all of Melbourne at Victoria.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very interesting time, so next to you

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, we'll look forward to seeing what

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Speaker 1: happens with that. I don't know that we can say

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Speaker 1: a lot more about that case without, you know, arguing

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Speaker 1: the toss with the lawyers and the judges and courts. Well,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 4: It's a bit hard to explain. But one of the

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Speaker 4: areas that will be agitated will be that I'm sure

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Speaker 4: Dermit Dan will be saying that the conviction doesn't make

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Speaker 4: sense because there's no motivation to kill Carol Clay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he would say that. And I suppose unless there was, yes,

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Speaker 1: some might think, you know, if she was a witness

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Speaker 1: to something else, to a very tragic death of her friend.

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Speaker 4: But as it stands right now, Greg Lynn says that

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Speaker 4: that is an accident, that the gun accidentally goes off

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Speaker 4: and kills Carol Clay and then in the aftermath of that,

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Speaker 4: there's another struggle and Russell Hill lands on his own knife.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing. Circums of events be very hard to choreograph.

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Speaker 1: If you were making a film about it, be very

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Speaker 1: hard to get that sequence correct.

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Speaker 4: Well, you'd have to almost lost several sequences, several versions of.

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Speaker 1: The event astoning. Of all the people you've ever covered

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Speaker 1: in many years, is there anyone that would be more

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Speaker 1: calculating in your estimation than Greg Lynn?

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Speaker 4: Well, given what we watched his record of interview with

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Speaker 4: police and his evidence when he got in the witness box,

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Speaker 4: I would say no. He's completely an utterly cool in

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Speaker 4: a crisis.

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Speaker 1: The other big story was the mushroom case. And I

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Speaker 1: sometimes appear at hotels and things and talk to people,

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Speaker 1: and I see this always a big response to the

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Speaker 1: mushroom case. It sort of makes people laugh for some reason.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why people funny about it. It's nothing

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Speaker 1: funny about it, but the fact that to mushrooms people

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Speaker 1: find somehow comical. Mushrooms are comical in a way that

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Speaker 1: you know, perhaps hand grenades are not. Now this happened

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Speaker 1: in South Gippsland, it did, and near curran Borough and

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Speaker 1: Lean gatherin.

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Speaker 4: Up there, and I learned a little something when the

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Speaker 4: media packs were going down to Lean and Gather every

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Speaker 4: day and to current Borough to find anyone associated with

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Speaker 4: this case, anyone who might know anything. It's quite religious.

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Speaker 4: There are religious parts of these towns and I never

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Speaker 4: knew any of that. You're from down that way.

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Speaker 1: I'm known from East Gippsland, which is about the same

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Speaker 1: distance as from oh Moscow to Paris probably something like that.

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Speaker 1: Not that far, but it's a fair way.

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Speaker 4: And you know, as we move forward in this case,

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Speaker 4: which at the moment will be heard at the courts

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Speaker 4: in Morewell, which is pretty un new usual for a

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Speaker 4: big murder case, there will be media from all over

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Speaker 4: the world descending on this town really to a smoke,

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Speaker 4: to a small court with facilities in it that are

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Speaker 4: not up to date for something of this magnitude.

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Speaker 1: What I want to know is that when reporters coming

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Speaker 1: from London, Paris, New York, what they're going to think

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Speaker 1: of the coffee shops of Mare. It's going to be interesting.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be a brew ah and more well

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Speaker 4: for the best coffee shop, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: It's a great place for steak sandwich. I know that

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Speaker 1: for a fact. So what goes on there? Mushroom lady.

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Speaker 4: Well, at the moment, so Aaron Patterson is remanded in custody,

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Speaker 4: I can tell you she's the Dame Phillis Frost Center,

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Speaker 4: which is a funny name for a prison. It is,

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Speaker 4: but that's when.

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Speaker 1: Not unless if you knew Dame Phillis Frost, you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: think it was funny.

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Speaker 4: I don't know her history.

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Speaker 1: Actually, wonderful woman. I think you probably owe her more respect.

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Speaker 4: Well, I just said it's a funny name from prison, right.

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Speaker 4: I don't know much about Dame Philus Frost, but it's

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Speaker 4: going to be It's going to be the most anticipated

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Speaker 4: trial of the year in twenty twenty five, without a doubt.

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Speaker 1: Is that true. Members of the jury, well, the younger

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Speaker 1: people here might have a different view, I would.

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Speaker 3: I would say given the worldwide media attention and the

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Speaker 3: attention it's gained not only in Victoria but in wa

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Speaker 3: in Queensland.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to agree with him.

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Speaker 3: I do on this case. It's going to be huge.

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Speaker 3: We will have so many of our reporters down in

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Speaker 3: the lovely More well town and Latro Valley. Nothing wrong

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Speaker 3: with the Latroe Valley that's in between our sort of hometowns.

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Speaker 1: It is indeed a wonderful place. Latro Valley used to

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Speaker 1: sell more beer than anywhere else in Victorim? Is that right?

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Speaker 1: One pub? There? Which one? The LV? There you go?

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's even open now.

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Speaker 2: And what do you think I think given the amount

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Speaker 2: of what we were talking about earlier, while conspiracy theory,

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Speaker 2: speculation about a woman, I think being at the center

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Speaker 2: of a case like this, let alone in Australia, just

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Speaker 2: tells you how much interest they'll be, not just from

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Speaker 2: people like us. I think people who have a fixation

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Speaker 2: with true crime here and around the world will tune

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Speaker 2: and follow every step.

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Speaker 1: It's got elements to it. It's like Midsimber murders and

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Speaker 1: it's got a little bit of Bigger of Dipley in it.

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Speaker 1: It's something slightly comical about this middle class lady that's

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Speaker 1: accused of terrible things and she may not have done.

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Speaker 2: Them, and it's good.

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Speaker 1: That's what makes it interesting.

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Speaker 2: That's right. It's got a bit of everything. As you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: You know, a family sits down for lunch and nobody

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Speaker 2: thinks that that's going to happen to them, and it's

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Speaker 2: something that people do all the time every day, and

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Speaker 2: you know, it's of course shouldn't be lost here that

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Speaker 2: you know, some kids here have lost their grandparents Andou's

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Speaker 2: lost their dad and it's awful. But the speculation for

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Speaker 2: this poor family in such a small town when we

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Speaker 2: all descend on it in twenty twenty five, will be massive.

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Speaker 1: No doubt about it. Yeah, you're right, it's nothing funny

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Speaker 1: about it at its core, and particularly for those who

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Speaker 1: have lost loved ones. But you can see why people

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Speaker 1: are fascinated by it because it's happening to respectable folk,

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Speaker 1: not to you know, the criminal classes, which always makes

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Speaker 1: it more intriguing.

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Speaker 4: So Aaron Patterson, that is the woman accused of three murders,

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Speaker 4: two teas, and as we speak, she's still accused of

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Speaker 4: attempted murder as well of her husband several counts of that.

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Speaker 4: As we move forward, we don't know what the jury

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Speaker 4: will actually be told. For example, charges may be severed

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Speaker 4: as we move along this process, witnesses are going to

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Speaker 4: be very interesting, especially her ex husband.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, because he had his own problems with things.

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Speaker 1: He's eaten. Yes, he's had tummy eggs.

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Speaker 4: He's had he's had some hospital visits.

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Speaker 1: And did they brought the dogs your Olivia, the dogs

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Speaker 1: that came to Ballarat. I think they had a bit

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Speaker 1: of an outing in South Kipstan, did they.

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Speaker 2: They've had a busy year, not only in Baloti.

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Speaker 1: Good dog will do that.

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Speaker 2: And so before we got to the point that we're

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Speaker 2: at now and as we wait for the trial, there

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Speaker 2: was a day when the AFP and VIC Pole descended

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Speaker 2: on her property in Leongatha Wals. She was with the

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Speaker 2: dogs while she was inside, scouring it and sniffing the ground,

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Speaker 2: and they did unearth some items there and I think

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Speaker 2: they did include USB's and a laptop.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that some witnesses will talk to that Anthony.

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Speaker 4: I think the electronic footprint here will be central to

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Speaker 4: this case. I see be very important part of it.

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Speaker 4: A lot of evidence will be built around it. And

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Speaker 4: we have no idea what is on those computers, if

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Speaker 4: anything at all could be anything could be anything that'll

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Speaker 4: certainly be a big part of this case. All we

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Speaker 4: know is that she used to be on the Currmborough Flyer,

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Speaker 4: which was a newsletter and before that she had a

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Speaker 4: bit of a job as an air traffic controller. She

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Speaker 4: was involved in church activities, She loved to travel, who

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Speaker 4: loved travel and camping well.

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Speaker 2: As Reagan said, the mushroom cookcase is going to be

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest things we'll cover in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: but it's not going to be the only one. There's

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Speaker 2: arson attacks, Middle East crime, gangs and biking activity and

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Speaker 2: none of them are going away anytime soon, and maybe

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Speaker 2: we can talk about them in more detail next year.

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Speaker 1: Andrew, thank you for coming along. Ladies and gentlemen of

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Speaker 1: the jury. You've been the most informative again. Thanks Andrew,

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Speaker 1: Thanks thanks for listening. Life in Crimes is a Sunday

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Speaker 1: Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is

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00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go to

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Speaker 1: Heroldson dot com dot au forward slash Andrew rule one

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