Speaker 1: With fifteen books to her name. On the topic of parenting,
Speaker 1: I'd say our next guest, there's somewhat of an expert.
Speaker 2: You never know who you're going to get with your child.
Speaker 2: It's like a puzzle. We can't see the picture. But
Speaker 2: I wanted you just be reassured that all every child
Speaker 2: actually wants is to be loved, accepted and valid as
Speaker 2: they are.
Speaker 1: God, che's good, Please, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Maggie Dance Maggie, Dan's good morning.
Speaker 4: Hi guy, how are you?
Speaker 1: Where do you want to start?
Speaker 5: Jason, Maggie, Why did I have three children and put
Speaker 5: myself in this situation?
Speaker 4: No, no, look, no worries. Look I think you know
Speaker 4: when there were days I locked myself on the toilet,
Speaker 4: So what was I thinking? Like, what the heck? Did
Speaker 4: I know what's going to be this hard? And then
Speaker 4: I just said four paral voice like yeah, so that's normal, right,
Speaker 4: because raising little humans who are unpredictable and developmentally unable
Speaker 4: to be the compliant, beautiful, well behaved children we thought
Speaker 4: the world was. You know, if you said my kids
Speaker 4: are never going to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, Like, so I've got a eleven, nine and
Speaker 3: three year old and friends of mine have got teenage
Speaker 3: daughters and they're like, we're in the tough years now
Speaker 3: for daughters. Yeah, well, I think boys by the time
Speaker 3: boys hit fifteen sixteen, we're just happy to ride our
Speaker 3: bikes at the server.
Speaker 4: That's if we can get them up the screen nowadays though,
Speaker 4: so and that's the other challenge we have. The world
Speaker 4: has kind of I think I put a thing up
Speaker 4: the other day on my Facebook page about how we've
Speaker 4: stolen boyhood off boys here we have because we've made
Speaker 4: them have to be safer and actual fact, natural consequences
Speaker 4: of boys falling out of trees and falling off their
Speaker 4: bikes and you know, all of that is how they
Speaker 4: learned not to make that choice next time, and now
Speaker 4: we aren't letting them do it. For their capacity to
Speaker 4: take risks, and that was really one of the things
Speaker 4: on I think episode three isn't as developed and they're
Speaker 4: not as resilient. You know, we've still got biological wiring
Speaker 4: and the testosterone means they're still supposed to be out
Speaker 4: hunting mammoth.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was explaining to one of my boys who's nine
Speaker 3: the other day. I'm like, mate, I used to go
Speaker 3: off on my pushbike for six hours. Don Mum and Dad,
Speaker 3: that's me no idea, ray Am, I'd come back because
Speaker 3: I was hungry, I'd et and I'd be gone again.
Speaker 3: And I'm just watching his little mind blind like really like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And they're probably looking at you, going how
Speaker 4: dangerous was that?
Speaker 5: D Yes, Yes, I'm like, I'm encouraging you to do it.
Speaker 5: Get out of here.
Speaker 4: So it's called safetyism, and it's one of the things
Speaker 4: that we keep on challenging. And that's one of the
Speaker 4: things I love in this episode to you know, remind
Speaker 4: everybody that they're meant to be doing risky stuff as
Speaker 4: they navigate through childhood so that they're able to navigate
Speaker 4: fire later, they're able to hear they're in a warning
Speaker 4: system that says, no, mate, last time you jumped off
Speaker 4: that balcony, hurt yourself. See not doing it today. And
Speaker 4: I think, you know, this is one of the challenges.
Speaker 4: We want to overprotect them because that's our job, because
Speaker 4: you look like the lousy parent when your kids right
Speaker 4: up the top of that tree and you're not following
Speaker 4: them down right.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Nowadays, man, man, the judgment.
Speaker 1: Now the role of a life time parenting is and
Speaker 1: I hope that I become a dad one day, right, Jay, soon,
Speaker 1: I've got I've got a question for you. I mean, clearly,
Speaker 1: it is the role in the honor of a lifetime,
Speaker 1: right yep. But it's hard.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's exhausting. Yeah, it is exhausting.
Speaker 3: But then there'll be moments like yesterday, you know, we're
Speaker 3: not we do a bit of prep for this show
Speaker 3: in the afternoon. Hard to believe, Meggie, I know, but
Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, I'll do all my
Speaker 3: work late tonight. I just want to sit down and play,
Speaker 3: you know, with my eight year old, you know. And
Speaker 3: when you get those moments, it's my wife and I
Speaker 3: look at each other and go, go it's a bloody rollercoaster. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like one minute, I'm just
Speaker 3: going how do I get myself in this situation? And
Speaker 3: the other minute, I'm happy to pause on the world
Speaker 3: and just build lego.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what it is. And it's always been like that.
Speaker 4: And so what we keep I keep saying to parents,
Speaker 4: what are you're doing now? Your leans is on what
Speaker 4: I'm doing wrong. It's not what you're doing right. And
Speaker 4: it's you know, in the midst of COVID. I kept
Speaker 4: sending parents, you can't work full time with the kids
Speaker 4: doing schooling. Put a good movie on, get the popcorn out,
Speaker 4: cuddle up on the couch, and those kids to remember
Speaker 4: COVID might have been crap, but we actually hung out
Speaker 4: and did stuff together. They're hungry for connection with parents,
Speaker 4: and you know, when it's all it is is correcting
Speaker 4: me and telling me. And that's why the adolescent years
Speaker 4: are so tricky, because so much of the stuff is
Speaker 4: happening that they don't know, which causes them to be
Speaker 4: confused and angry and stressed and mixed up. And then
Speaker 4: we're going to come down hard because they're not done
Speaker 4: something when we never know that there is a psychological
Speaker 4: fragility inside them and they're desperate, just desperate for someone
Speaker 4: to say it's okay. It happens to wall of it.
Speaker 1: So, Maggie, we talk so often about parents and hating
Speaker 1: a break from their children. Do children need a break
Speaker 1: from their parents? Sometimes?
Speaker 4: You know, there's a whole generation here that are in
Speaker 4: their bedroom more than any other previous generation, and they're
Speaker 4: getting away from their parents in a way right because
Speaker 4: they're meant to individual way into a new human coming
Speaker 4: over the bridge to adulthood. But now what they're doing,
Speaker 4: they're doing it in the bedroom, but they're not in
Speaker 4: a social situation, not in a real situation, so they're
Speaker 4: ending up with lower social and emotional capacity.
Speaker 1: It's escapism as opposed to independence.
Speaker 4: In their view, they think they're more connected, but what
Speaker 4: we now know, and this comes up in today's episode,
Speaker 4: they're actually lonelier and more socially connected, and yet they
Speaker 4: want to spend hours doing it because it's at a distance.
Speaker 4: But it's all it's not all good, and it's not
Speaker 4: all bad. But when it's bad, it's really bad. And
Speaker 4: I think if you watch, you'll get the smack in
Speaker 4: the face of what AI is doing in our team
Speaker 4: space and the capacity to do really harmful things even
Speaker 4: though it might seem like a bit of fun for
Speaker 4: an immature boy. Can you see once again through their lens.
Speaker 4: I just thought I'd take a picture and put boobs
Speaker 4: on it. Yeah no, mate, no, mat that's really harmful
Speaker 4: for the girl that you've done.
Speaker 5: That's funny.
Speaker 3: You're just going back on what you're talking about before,
Speaker 3: where it's like, you know, people would think I'm crazy
Speaker 3: if I was like mate to take your bike, get
Speaker 3: out of here for six hours, go riding. You'd be like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's a dangerous world out there. But then, and I
Speaker 3: know this has come up before, But then we give
Speaker 3: them a laptop and they're doing They've got access to
Speaker 3: much more dangerous stuff and.
Speaker 4: People, way more dangerous. And then, and I think that's
Speaker 4: the challenge, because we think they're safe in our house,
Speaker 4: technically they're actually.
Speaker 5: It's yeah, it's crazy, and it's the change.
Speaker 4: In the punting, which is why it's a chasm, not
Speaker 4: a good generation gap.
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you about something that you brought
Speaker 3: up in the past. You flagged that sometimes at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, kids will come home from school
Speaker 3: and they'll just melt down, won't they, Maggie. They're just
Speaker 3: like you know, nothing will make them happy, even the
Speaker 3: drive home from school.
Speaker 5: I'm like, God, you really just turned on me now, Maggie.
Speaker 5: You've said in the past to look at it differently.
Speaker 3: You've said, rather than looking at it and going, oh,
Speaker 3: they're angry, you suggest looking at it in a way
Speaker 3: that they actually feel safer around us.
Speaker 4: Get yeah, So if we hold in all our biggest feelings,
Speaker 4: then we actually overload our nervous system and become really
Speaker 4: volatile anywhere. So when they come home and it's the
Speaker 4: meltdown in the car for younger kids, and it's that
Speaker 4: one in the kitchen, you're that words, Mary whatever. What
Speaker 4: that is is actually an incredible gift, is that they
Speaker 4: know that that's safe enough to discharge this duff that's
Speaker 4: inside them that well they want to get out because
Speaker 4: you are still going to be able to love them
Speaker 4: after that, right and in that moment, if we can
Speaker 4: hold the ground and go, you know, pat your little
Speaker 4: On'm nailing it what they love me the best without
Speaker 4: going how dare they speak to me so disfull having
Speaker 4: a groundew gate to because that's the previous generation.
Speaker 5: But I guess that's my question.
Speaker 4: When we're calm, we come back in and so it
Speaker 4: easy look like you had a hard day, and usually
Speaker 4: that's when they'll either make an apology or they'll feel lousy.
Speaker 4: I can't do it in the heat of the moment,
Speaker 4: because that's my question.
Speaker 3: I guess, like you know, I was having an absolute
Speaker 3: block one kids, one of the kids the other day,
Speaker 3: and this is after school, and I had your voice
Speaker 3: in the back of my head going.
Speaker 5: To comment, how lucky am I that I'm bringing yelled out?
Speaker 5: Not who feels comfortable?
Speaker 3: And then I had to go, Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 3: approach it like that, But how long do you let
Speaker 3: that go for?
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean? Surely it's telling that
Speaker 5: rewarding behavior ready?
Speaker 4: No, no, no, that's the lens you're going through the
Speaker 4: behaviorism lens. Aren't I rewarding that behavior? No, I'm showing
Speaker 4: them that I am completely safe. However, what I'm going
Speaker 4: to do when everyone's a little bit calmer and if
Speaker 4: I've said things I shouldn't have said, the repairing of
Speaker 4: the rupture was not something we ever did in pre
Speaker 4: this generation, and that's what we've come in with. Oh man,
Speaker 4: I've just you know, of course that's not the dad
Speaker 4: I want to be. Or and we let them completely
Speaker 4: calm down and we might go back in with like
Speaker 4: I said to Jesture, kind of saying, wow, that was
Speaker 4: a big blow up. Hey, once they're.
Speaker 3: Calm, yeah, Like so do you think just walking away
Speaker 3: adding distance at that point?
Speaker 4: I think it depends. So when they're really calm, if
Speaker 4: they look make Ifhyby a fly off like that again
Speaker 4: to want me to stay there, yeah, right, walk away.
Speaker 4: So in other words, we're going to use We're going
Speaker 4: to work together to work out how do I support
Speaker 4: you when your immature brain has flipped its lips right,
Speaker 4: because they won't do it at school, Jason, hold it
Speaker 4: in until they get home, right, and that's after the
Speaker 4: boy's gone and had a pool. Before he can do that.
Speaker 1: You need you need Maggie on speed dialing.
Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely, forget that. Maggie. We've got a spare room.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you're looking to get out of
Speaker 5: your door it, but i'll tell you what you know what.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you want to move in after
Speaker 3: this last bit. But I thought I would ask Maggie
Speaker 3: about remember the issue I've got with the.
Speaker 5: Three year old at the moment.
Speaker 3: So Maggie, our three year old Archie. We call him
Speaker 3: the liability.
Speaker 4: Can I just start right there? You are manifesting his reality.
Speaker 4: So I would say, he's just wonderful and see the change.
Speaker 5: He's a wonderful liability.
Speaker 1: Mag Let's rebatch him. Is the shining light of your life.
Speaker 5: It's shining light. Let's keep that in mindment.
Speaker 3: I play this next audio because he's developed a little
Speaker 3: bit of a habit now at the age of three,
Speaker 3: on the weekend, I'll go, hey, achie, I'm doing dinner.
Speaker 5: Should we do noodles or dumplings? And this is his
Speaker 5: common response at the moment. That was him in the.
Speaker 4: Okay, and guess what he's let that word from. So
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, Oh my god, there's
Speaker 4: such mirrors. And it's one of the scariest bits is
Speaker 4: that we think they don't hearers, and of course quite
Speaker 4: often they use it an extremely appropriate place.
Speaker 5: Trying not to laugh at that.
Speaker 4: Trying not to laugh is the hardest bit. So we're
Speaker 4: we're just going to kind of not make a bit.
Speaker 4: So the more you make a thing about it, the
Speaker 4: more likely it's going to stay. And we just very
Speaker 4: gently go high five for noodles or dumplings. Were just
Speaker 4: moves through it. So it's not going to be a
Speaker 4: big thing. But sometimes around the dining table and to say, look,
Speaker 4: you know, you know how we've got to keep the words.
Speaker 4: We really try. There's some words that we're not meant
Speaker 4: to say. This reminds a whole table three year olds.
Speaker 4: And then we gradually diminish the capacity for that to
Speaker 4: become quite such a habit and then they can sometimes
Speaker 4: literally forget to use it. But you've got to give
Speaker 4: him other words to use in that space or another
Speaker 4: action to do when you asked it. So that's say
Speaker 4: you've got it. You've got to get a bit creative
Speaker 4: and so get the older ones to play with you
Speaker 4: on that one. So what are we doing to do it?
Speaker 4: And they go, yeah, that's that one, whoa whoa, yeah,
Speaker 4: a different word, and then it becomes a fun thing.
Speaker 4: There's a neural pathway in the brain. We can always
Speaker 4: change old habits by inhabiting them, but we have to
Speaker 4: create a new habit to go over the top.
Speaker 3: Now that you say, Now that you say they're like
Speaker 3: sponges and it's a mirror, it makes sense because when
Speaker 3: he said that, he was on a Lilah with a
Speaker 3: margarita and it.
Speaker 5: Was like looking in a mirror, which is a terrifying Maggie,
Speaker 5: congratulations on this series.
Speaker 4: It is an absolute were back in the chair. But Juso,
Speaker 4: I was really really excited to be a part of
Speaker 4: organizing it. And most of my friends are in the show.
Speaker 3: All right, there's some great people. Amana Keller, Cake, Richie.
Speaker 3: We love nazim As well. Maggie Dan join us on
Speaker 3: the the role of a lifetime finale It Can Binge
Speaker 3: It All on ABC I View Maggie, we love you.
Speaker 3: Next time you're in Melbourne, pop past the studio.
Speaker 4: Let's do it.
Speaker 5: I'll give you three kids to take home.
Speaker 1: As a get Maggie. Jason Laurens Lauren Wake Up Feeling
Speaker 1: Good A number one hundred Jason Lauren Fly on Socials