WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 5 June 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:08.320 Welcome to the Late Debase. Good evening and welcome to 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.440 the program. I'm Caleb Bond with Frei Leitch and Caroline 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.640 Marcus coming up tonight. Forget about the Uberittes driver drones 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.720 could be on the way in. Will tell you how 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.960 many people have complained about their presence in the sky 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.520 over their homes. Very soon. It involves one woman who 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.760 thinks the drones were watching her in her bathtub. The 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.000 NRL in the papers wants to get involved in the Olympics. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.880 I wonder what my beloved AFIL is doing. Once again, 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.080 they're letting Peter Velandi's walk all over them. And how 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.400 old is too old to be pushed around in a pram? 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.800 How does eight or teen years old sound to you. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.440 We'll get into that a little bit later now. Of course, 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.200 all week we've been talking about the debate that Chris Mins, 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.280 the Premier Review South Wales, sparked on Monday when he 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.200 suggested that the tobacco excise ought to be cut in 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:59.120 order to reduce the illicit tobacco market that is currently 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.960 taking over the country. All over the country. Of course, 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.600 this started mostly in Victoria with fire bombings more than 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.240 one hundred of them. Now of these tobacco are selling 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.679 illegal cigarettes. It's now spreading into New South Wales, it's 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.600 spread into South Australia, and Chris Mins has had enough. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:16.560 He said, look, there are two things that have to 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.080 happen here. One is I have to pull my police 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.479 off of other crimes that I'd rather they'd be dealing 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.960 with to deal with this burgeoning illicit tobacco market. And 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.920 federal government, it's your fault that this has happened. You 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.800 jacked the excess up so much that you created a 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.679 market where now last year forty percent of tobacco sales 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.640 were illegal. Well, it turns out, as we talked about 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.760 earlier in the week, that over the road from Parliament 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.160 in New South Wales there is a dodgy tobacco shop 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.920 that is selling vapes and illegal cigarettes. They came to 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:49.800 the attention of the Daily Telegraph. It was on the 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.320 front page on Tuesday. They've since been given a warning, 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.880 not even so much as a fine. They've been given 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.760 a warning and told do better next time. Meanwhile, the 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.520 Tree Jim Chalmers, has said there is no way they 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.280 will be reducing reducing. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.880 Sorry to excise, I respectfully disagree with Chris as a 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.600 friend of mine. I work closely with Premier Mins. I 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.440 don't think the answer here is to make cigarettes cheaper 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.639 for people. I think the answer here is to get 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:18.720 better at compliance. 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.560 Now he says there, the answer is not to make 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.760 cigarettes cheaper. The only problem with that is that they're 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.920 already cheaper, because you can walk into basically any tobacco 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.160 in Australia and buy them for twenty dollars. That the 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.799 federal government has just dismissed this out of hand. They 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.400 haven't even said, yeah, we'll take a look at whether 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.799 the tax is working or not. I mean, I don't 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.320 think there's any other tax in the history of Australia 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.720 where in five years you can double the levey. So 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.639 it's gone from about eighty cents per cigarette five years 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.680 ago to a dollar forty now, and at the same time, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:57.000 watch the revenue on that tax have it's obvious that 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.920 this market has been created because of the high excite, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.880 it's actually driving less revenue to the federal government. Now, 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.639 means is sensibly said, can we take a look at this. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.720 The federal government won't even bother to do that. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.320 I mean, look, there's no doubt that the high excise 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.360 is pushing people to illegal tobacco. But then the question 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.920 is why is there illegal tobacco available? And as we've 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.200 discussed earlier in the week, there are twenty compliance officers 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.600 based in the Health department, not even in the police force, 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:32.399 in the health department that are responsible for regulating twenty 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:34.480 thousand tobacconists. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.440 And as you saw in that case just then, even 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:38.000 when these. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.160 Illegal tobacconists are caught, they're not even punished with the 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.720 full force of the law. They're not imprisoned, they're not 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:48.760 issued the maximum fine, which is over one hundred thousand dollars. Generally, 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.440 what happens is they're just issued a warning a fine 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.480 of about eleven hundred dollars. That's how much you get 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.320 fined if you're driving thirty k's over the speed limit. 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:01.960 That hardly seems like fit punishment for gangland figures who 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.040 are operating criminal enterprises. 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.560 So, yes, we can have a conversation. 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.520 About cutting the tax, but I think we cannot have 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.920 that conversation without also acknowledging the fact that there is 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.240 insufficient compliance. And if Chris Minz can afford to put 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.159 drivers on driverless metros, he can afford to hire a 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.440 few more people to patrol the illegal TOBACCOO Well. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.400 He was forced to put the drivers on the metros 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.800 by the union. But I mean, there's a police. We 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.279 don't have enough police officers. And I think it's unfair 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.800 of the federal government to expect the state to basically 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:39.960 clean up their mess, because of course there's always been 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.640 illegal cigarettes in some way, shape or form, but noway 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.440 near the magnitude that exists now. And so you have 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.799 the federal government with its ridiculous excise that the state 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.960 government is then expected to monitor. And they've always done 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.800 that with these you know, compliance officers who work in 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.400 the health department, because it's never been a problem, but 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.240 all of a sudden and out of nowhere, it is 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.800 these twenty thousand shops. I mean, what are we to 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.119 expect the coppers to go around and check out every 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:06.880 single one of them. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:07.960 It's not realistic. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.520 And I do agree with Chrismin's The New South Wales 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.720 premiere on that that the cops are already stretched absolutely thin, 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:19.160 are dealing with domestic violence, drug issues, the weekly protests 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:20.520 that they have to stand there. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.080 And babysit every week in the city. But what I 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:25.000 disagree with you. 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.160 About, Caleb, is that this means that the excize is 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.960 not working, because what is the alternative? 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:32.839 Do you then. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.120 Drop legal cigarettes back to twenty dollars in order to 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.160 compete twenty dollars a pack they're currently about sixty bucks 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:43.240 a pack to compete with the illegal tobacco. 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:44.080 You can't. 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.800 You absolutely can't get not because you can't. The smoking 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.040 rates would first of all go through the roof, because 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.320 if you actually look at the statistics, they've halved since 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.880 the excise was first introduced, So it actually is working 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.719 to do what its main per purposes, which is to 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.799 cut smoking braids and therefore help the public health system 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.800 obviously look after the well being of the country. But 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.400 on top of that, it's second purpose is obviously to 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.359 raise tax as well, So you would be raising tax 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.120 if you drop it to compete with well. 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.480 You'd actually make more because five years ago that were 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:21.320 making double leaks. 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.480 You have to have some excise on it, and if 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.200 you put any excise on it, it's going to be 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.440 more expensive than what you can get on the black market, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.240 So people are always going to go to the black market. 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.040 And then the other argument I would raise with you 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:33.760 as well. Of course, if. 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.280 You don't want organized criminals to get involved in this, 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:39.159 well there's all sorts of other things you can do. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.880 Well, why don't we just legalize heroine? Why do we 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.240 legalize creme legal? 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.760 Well, it is legal and they don't want to make 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:51.359 it illegal, which I know is another ethical issue all together. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.720 But it's the same with prostitution. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.040 We have legal prostitution, we also have brothels that are 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.240 operated and the legal type of sex work that's also 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.560 being involved with the organized crime scene. So I think 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.359 that on principle, I don't think it's something that just 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:13.240 to try and get more tax or to make sure 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.080 that the organized criminals don't have a market. We should 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:21.880 completely remove what our concerns are with smoking, and there 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:22.280 are some. 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.960 Other options available to the government as well. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.320 They recently cracked down on bikey owned tattoo parlors, and 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.080 to do that they did background checks on the owners 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.400 of these parlors. I mean, I don't see why they're 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.360 not doing that. Anyone who wants to open up a 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.560 tobacconist you should immediately have to do a background check. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.560 If they have any criminal history, then immediately not the matter. 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:43.280 I think there are so. 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.560 Many steps we can take to just improve basic enforcement. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.960 That's fair enough. But two points you made there, One 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:50.960 Caroline was that the smoking rate would go through the 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.440 roof if you dropped the excise. They can already buy 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.920 the illicit tobacco in pretty much every tobacconist, So I 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.000 don't think it makes a great difference to smoking rates. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.080 Want to if you actually look at the statistics. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:03.640 But if you want to smoke, we're talking about people 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.280 who are smoking now. So if you want to smoke now, 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.080 you can go and buy the illegal stuff for twenty 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.040 backs of packet, or you can buy the legal one. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:11.840 So if the legal one was twenty backs of packet, 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.480 I don't think it encourages more people to smoke because 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.400 they can already buy it for twenty backs of packet illegally. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.000 And as for what was the other point, and. 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.720 General have to find a tobacconist. You have to go 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.160 into each one and find out any advertizer. 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:29.840 It's not every single one. 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.120 Well, look you walk down any high street now and 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:34.640 there's dozens. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.800 Of just prove the case that we need more enforcement. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.360 If every to back it is just breaking the law, 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:41.920 then let's just crack down. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.200 Perhaps so, but look, I just think if you helped 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.920 new to the market it would make a difference. 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.720 I agree to disagree on that one. Then this is 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:56.520 really interesting. Australia's leading expert who wrote the gender affirming 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:01.199 care policy of the government has been lashed family Court 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:05.200 judge who said that the evidence for gender affirming care 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.960 is ideological and lacks evidence. 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.079 To support it. This was in a case where. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.200 The mother wanted their twelve year old child to go 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.760 onto puberty blockers, but the father said no, Let children 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.920 be children. And the justice has also slammed this idea 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.520 that gender dysphoria is this immutable trait and said, hang 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:30.080 on a second, it can also be influenced by environmental 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.040 factors and that's something we've seen. 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:33.800 In the last five to ten years. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.640 There has been a shocking explosion in the number of 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:42.520 children identifying as transgender and claiming to have gender dysphoria. 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.960 So this judge is essentially interrogating the evidence base and 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.000 it is seriously lacking. He also found that this gender 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:56.280 expert gave misleading evidence and the significance of this is 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.680 that the doctor's name was previously anonymised and she didn't 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.679 want to be identified. But now the lid has been blown, 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.479 and so this really shatters I think this whole narrative 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.200 that gender affirming care is the only way to treat 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.560 transgender children, because as we've seen in the UK with 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.880 the Cat's Review, even in Queensland they've paused the use 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.480 of puberty blockers for miners. It simply is not supported 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.960 by the evidence. This field of study, as this judge 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:29.520 points out, is inherently ideological, it lacks evidence support and 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:35.120 ultimately children are being harmed by this through irreversible procedures. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.400 You can't just block or pause puberty. It causes lasting 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.040 damage to these kids. So I think it'll be really 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.920 interesting to see whether the federal government response. They're currently 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.120 conducting a review into gender affirming care, but we're not 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:53.000 expected to see any results until mid twenty twenty six. 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.840 How many other kids have to fall victim to this 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.439 broken system before the government acts? 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:03.559 Caroline, Oh, well, this is an absolutely critical judgment, I think, 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.320 And just to pick up one of your points, I mean, 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.640 I have no doubt that the expert would have preferred 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.800 to stay anonymous, but it's actually part of our court 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.040 system that when matters are in the family court witnesses 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.439 like this expert witness how are keptainnonymous. So it actually 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.320 took journalists and in this case the Australian to make 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.360 an argument with the court and put in submissions as 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.840 to why she shouldn't be anonymous, and for very good reason, 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:30.760 and in this case the judge agreed it is in 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.560 the public interest. We're not just talking about one gender 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.880 care expert. This woman, Michelle Telfer, was the lead author 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:40.280 of the nation's. 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.760 Guidelines on how to look after children. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.959 One other worrying aspect of her evidence, the judge pointed out, 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:51.920 was that she compared this landmark cast review into gender 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:53.040 a firm and care. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.319 Which raised all sorts of concerns. As you point out 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.680 about gender care. Two Nazis and how Nazis. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:04.520 Treated people are particularly gay and lesbian people during the Holocaust. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.280 They were persecuted as well. 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:10.120 And the judge said there is no comparison whatsoever, and 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:15.920 that demonstrated a true ignorance and also discredited her even further. 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.320 So I'm glad that she's been unmasked because when it 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.160 comes to other parents of confused children, and there are 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.360 a lot, there is a kind of social contagion happening here. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.920 If they are going to take this person's advice or 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.600 follow these sorts of guidelines, then they need to know 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:35.960 who are the people who are making them. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.360 I mean, it is an extraordinary decision by Judge Andrewstrom 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.079 to allow the name to be made public, like it's 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.200 basically unheard of in the family court, and people in 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.800 family law circles, even those who weren't involved in the case, 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.640 were well aware of who was being named here. They 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.240 knew well about the case and we're sort of waiting 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.440 for this to come, and of course it has, and 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.080 we have to be very careful when we talk about 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.680 these things to realize there are two distinct types of 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:11.439 children who present as quote unquote transgender. There are children 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.440 who present and it's obvious their parents can attest that 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.480 from a very young age they have showed some kind 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.240 of issue with their gender. Gender dysphoria is the diagnosis 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.040 that then leads to someone later becoming transgender. And then 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.720 you have children who present during puberty, usually in their 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.440 teenage years, saying that they are experiencing gender dysphoria, and 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.720 in almost every case of a child presenting in that circumstance, 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:44.160 there are other comorbid issues, whether it be anxiety or 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:50.120 depression or one hundred other mental concerns, right, And so 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.440 they're going through something and they think, oh, I don't 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.200 know who I am, and they say that's gender dysphoria. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.000 And the rules as they are at the moment, the 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.400 gold standard apparently is to tell these children and teenagers 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.440 that that must be affirmed. It's gender affirming care. We 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:12.079 believe you, without interrogating all the other things that most 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.559 often are leading this teenager to say that they feel 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.120 like they are transgender. And the fact that Michelle Telfer 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.160 of course wrote the guidelines and then was in court 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.560 using the guidelines that she wrote to justify the evidence 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.640 she was giving, and the judge said it was like 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.240 a judge giving a judgment on one base and then 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.840 referencing his own case and saying that was the reason 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:36.680 that it should be. 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.680 Look speaking of confused children here, let's move on to 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.760 Gretit Thumberg. She's technically not a child anymore, but for 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.360 all intents and purposes, she still comes across as. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.960 A very ignorant, naive young woman. 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.840 The ship the boat, I should say that she's sailing 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.000 on towards Gaza to break the siege. While it's inching 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.440 closer and closer. It has moved off course now lightly. 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.240 It's responded to a distress call from a boat containing 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:10.560 forty asylum seekers. But look, there's been many interviews, many 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:16.000 pieces to camera posted to social media from this boat 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.600 that Greater Thumberg is on. They're there to deliver aid. 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.720 Let's take a look at some of what Greta and 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:23.960 some of will. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.880 Attempt to again sale towards Gaza and to try to 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.680 break the siege and open up a humanitarian code or 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:36.600 by delivering aid. Keep trying everything we can, even if 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:42.480 the odds are against us, to try to protest and 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.600 do everything we can to stand against Israel's atrocities and 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:47.480 war crimes. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.680 I mean, they're not just there with a few packets 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:56.160 of milk and protein bars to deliver to people in Gaza, 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:01.400 but they're carrying this banner saying humanity borders and talking 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.800 about how there should be no borders and how Europe 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:09.360 is evil because it doesn't allow safe passage to every 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.120 asylum seeker who wants to enter its shores. I mean, 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.720 I feel like if you looked up the term useful 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.080 idiot in the dictionary, it would show gret A Thumberg. 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.240 That's exactly right. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.720 And I think what this story also shows is that 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.960 the pro Palestine movement is just the tip of the 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:33.000 iceberg for what these people want to achieve. They do 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.320 truly believe in a borderless society. We need to decolonize 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.880 everything and we need to overthrow the oppressors. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:41.160 Take a look at this. 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.960 They move from different places and they try to seek shelter. 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.280 So this is something that we need to announce. The 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:55.520 problems that were generated by the global norf colonizing powers 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.160 on the global self that makes the people to move 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.200 and in the end where they try to move to 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.200 the global North to say shelter, they don't have a 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.439 sick place of go. So we need to expose the 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.160 whole system that is problematic. It's not just one specific situation. 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.840 We need to change society in its cork, in its roops. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:17.160 Oh no, the global North is oppressing the global South. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:22.320 They called the Mediterranean a graveyard for those brave, fearless 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.480 asylum seekers that are just trying to take shelter in 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.240 the global North because they've been oppressed so much by 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.280 the Western world, and now they try to go there 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.000 to take shelter, yet there's nowhere safe for them to go. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:38.400 It's like, seriously, the people crossing the Mediterranean are illegal migrants. 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.399 I'm not sure the people in Europe would be so 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.760 happy to welcome them with open arms, and we've seen 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:45.840 how that's. 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:46.480 Gone for Europe. 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.240 But seriously, and the other thing I find so funny 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.720 about this is the victim complex of these people. It's 0:17:53.760 --> 0:18:00.000 truly beyond comprehension. So naturally they're sailing near Greek territorial waters, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.879 and so the Greek government has been monitoring them with 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:05.000 a drone. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:09.120 Check this out, Hello of Ron. 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.080 We're reporting here from them Adlin. We are right now 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.480 at eighty kilometers from Greek lens and sixty eight kilometers 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.800 from Greek territorial orders. What happened is that we just 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.119 spotted a drone and we confirmed it is a drone, 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.760 but we just lost to visual with it. We could 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.240 have either turned back or turned off the lights. We 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:35.520 need we need your help. Please send this is lass 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.240 signs let. 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.080 And this morning one of the members of the Freedom 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:47.560 Flotilla said they were subject to psychological warfare because of 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:52.600 this drone overhead. The whole saga is honestly embarrassing, but 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.200 it does raise the question, Caleb, will the IDF let 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:57.520 them into Gaza? 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.399 Should they? How are they going to approach? 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:01.800 This is the suggestion now is that they may not. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.240 I mean that they will probably hold a raid before 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.919 it gets to the coast. And I can understand that 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:09.640 fair enough, because you know you don't want them bringing 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.200 ammunition or anything on board. But I'm not sure why 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.439 you would actually stop them from making land. What is 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.200 what's actually to gain in stopping them from making land. 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:19.920 They are a bunch of idiots on a boat that 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.639 were going to rock up and walk around for a while, 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.120 probably realize that it's a lot worse than they really 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:26.879 thought it was, and get back on the boat and 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.320 bag her off. Like, what is there to gain into 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:30.399 turning them away? 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.560 Well, I think on principle Israel I absolutely can't. Otherwise, 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.359 I mean, who knows what they are smuggling, No doubts. 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:36.879 They'll be checks. 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.240 But you can't let every activist boat just make land 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.600 in gas and walk around free will. But a part 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.880 of me would like to see Greta Thumberg over there. 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.760 Maybe she can check out the climate credentials of the 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.320 Hamas terraces. Are they offsetting their carbon when they're firing 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:56.119 rockets and civilians in Israel? They are making sure that 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.399 they only use you know, renewable energy when they're digging 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.920 their tunnel terror tunnels underneath the ground. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:03.600 I'd like her to check out those credentials. 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.480 All that cement takes a lot of fossil huels. But 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.120 it is worth noting that this actually has happened once before. 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.880 Back in twenty ten, a group of Turkish activists had 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.600 their own freedom flotilla. It was intercepted by the IDF. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.480 They went on board to obviously seize the ship and 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:25.000 turn them around, but the Turkish activists met them with punching, 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:26.480 they tried stabbing them. 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:27.920 A couple of the IDF. 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.440 Soldiers got wounded and as a result they fired live 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.840 ammunition and ten activists died. So this is actually a 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:40.560 very serious situation, and I think honestly, going into a 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:45.840 terrorist controlled enclave really nearly as they are, is a recipe. 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.480 For disaster for themselves. 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:53.720 For themselves because as we see what happens when aid 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.720 workers do end up getting killed, often because there are 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.040 mistakes that may have been made by Israel, but also 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:06.200 because they can be very easily mistaken for her mass militants, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:10.440 especially if they're very close to her mask combat areas, 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.960 So they're putting themselves a danger. 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:14.280 Who will get blamed. 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.520 Israel will get blamed in the end, Israel will always 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:18.080 get blamed. 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.199 Why don't Israel put itself in that position? 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.159 Well, I couldn't particularly care if she got blown off 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:23.920 the face of the earth, but is it not also 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.280 then handing them a free kick, almost saying, oh, will 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.880