1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannons.

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 1: On today's episode, Lando Norris is the new World Champion

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,320
Speaker 1: after finishing third in Abu Dhabi to clinch the title

4
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,240
Speaker 1: by two points. Oscar Piastre meanwhile, takes third in the

5
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,919
Speaker 1: title race thirteen points, a drift of his teammate after

6
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,000
Speaker 1: finishing runner up to Max Verstappan in the final Grand

7
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 1: Prix of the season. My name's Michael Lamanato. It's great

8
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: to have your company and the company of my co

9
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: host Abu Dhabi. Doo, it's Matt Clayton.

10
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,320
Speaker 2: That's the funniest thing that's happened in Abu Dhabi ever, Michael,

11
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,960
Speaker 2: because as we know, with this particular Grand Prix, basically

12
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 2: nothing happens after qualifying, and it's been a full decade

13
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,920
Speaker 2: of nothing happening after qualifying except for a bit of

14
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 2: Nicholas Lativ and Michael Massey and other things in various

15
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,200
Speaker 2: other years. But Abu Dhabi was as we predicted. But yeah,

16
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,280
Speaker 2: I mean, as an end to a pretty compelling season,

17
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,560
Speaker 2: it was a bit lame. But we do finally have

18
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 2: an answer to who's going to win this World Championship,

19
00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,200
Speaker 2: which was not something we expected to go to the

20
00:00:59,240 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 2: final round, was it.

21
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. And yes, some people were also reminded

22
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,840
Speaker 1: over the week that as much as everyone had the

23
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,399
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one finale in their minds, people forget that.

24
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,200
Speaker 1: I think fifty of the fifty eight laps were extremely boring,

25
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,640
Speaker 1: so it's not a surprise standard Abdi, Yes, absolutely standard.

26
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 1: Abu Dhabi mon't talk about the track. A little bit

27
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,760
Speaker 1: later on that we should start doing about the man

28
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,039
Speaker 1: who did eventually clinch the championship at the very last

29
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 1: opportunity with the bare minimum result third place, Lando Norris.

30
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 1: He's the thirty fifth Formula one World champion in the

31
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 1: sport's seventy six year history. I know they were saying

32
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,959
Speaker 1: it was seventy five, but that it's the seventy sixty

33
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: year correct, and a race that that allowed him while

34
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 1: he clearly looked, I think it's fair to say pretty tense,

35
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 1: pretty pale before the race. In fact, I read I

36
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,479
Speaker 1: think ESPN reported that it wasn't just him that was tense,

37
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,440
Speaker 1: but someone among his group vomited in front of his

38
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 1: car on the grid. Remarkable scenes. Didn't say that on

39
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 1: the television, but clearly there's a lot of tension in

40
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,360
Speaker 1: the air, but he got it done with a third place.

41
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: Was never really a too much risk, but did have

42
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,240
Speaker 1: to pass some cars after making a slightly earlier then

43
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 1: expected pit stop, including Yuki Sonoda, which was off track.

44
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 1: Or was it maebe you can decide. But he is

45
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 1: the world champion. He said he will run the number

46
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 1: one on his car next year. Here's the one who

47
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,639
Speaker 1: got it over the line, as we said, two points

48
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 1: ahead of Max. For Stappen, I don't know about you,

49
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 1: but I really enjoyed his post race reaction, you know,

50
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,239
Speaker 1: because I was sort of thinking a lot of us

51
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: in the media, the great story would have been Max

52
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,239
Speaker 1: with Stappen winning. I mean, any of them were worthy

53
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 1: world champions, but Max with Stappin's comeback was huge. But

54
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,679
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but think afterwards you I had Max

55
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 1: won the title, there would have been a lot of

56
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,639
Speaker 1: whooping on radio, and then there would have been a

57
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: lot of well, it hasn't changed my life. Afterwards, I

58
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,400
Speaker 1: like that we got a world championship outcome, with the

59
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,120
Speaker 1: driver saying afterwards that it is changing his life, that

60
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,119
Speaker 1: he's extremely proud that he was emotional that he talked

61
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: about his parents. I really enjoyed that we got this

62
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: sort of outcome.

63
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. I mean, these World Championship post races are

64
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,680
Speaker 2: funny in some respects because you know, everyone's so uptight

65
00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 2: leading into these finales like this, and then you have

66
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,800
Speaker 2: the combination of you get over the line the greatest

67
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 2: thing of your sporting career again in the case of

68
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 2: multiple world champions or for a first time with some

69
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,079
Speaker 2: of these guys, and you have the combination of you've

70
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 2: been wound tight like a spring all weekend, you can

71
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 2: finally let that go. You've done a million media commitments

72
00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:15,360
Speaker 2: to Champagne's probably got to your head a little bit,

73
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,480
Speaker 2: as Hosh all these things, and the mask of caution

74
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 2: that a lot of these guys have does tend to

75
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 2: drop a little bit, and you know you've been at

76
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 2: these I've been at these. These final race deciders are

77
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 2: really revealing because you get to find out what's really

78
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,400
Speaker 2: going on behind the visor with some of these guys.

79
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 2: And Norris's press commitments which apparently went for double the

80
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 2: actual duration of the actual race, which I thought was

81
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,120
Speaker 2: really interesting. He had a lot to say to a

82
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 2: lot of people that wanted to do a lot of talking,

83
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 2: but you really find out a bit about these guys

84
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 2: in these moments like this, And I remember it was

85
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 2: referencing a piece that I've had over the weekend and

86
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 2: it triggered me. But the twenty ten Championship finale that

87
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 2: Sebastian Vase one, there was this fantastic scene where he

88
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,600
Speaker 2: hadn't seen his dad for quite a while after that race,

89
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 2: and it was one of those moments where when they

90
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 2: finally saw each other, it was with a whole audience

91
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 2: of media type standing ground watching it, and there was

92
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 2: this fantastic sort of nonverbal nod towards one another, and

93
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 2: then the emotion that played out through that, which was

94
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 2: really really interesting. And I think with Norris, he's someone

95
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 2: who will wear his heart on his sleeve more than

96
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 2: most drivers, for good or bad, and it has been

97
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 2: for bad at various points during his career. He has

98
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 2: left himself vulnerable to criticism about the way he goes

99
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 2: about things, but there's some authenticity there. And you and

100
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 2: I have laughed about that word in Formula one because

101
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 2: it's not something that happens all that often with a

102
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 2: lot with a lot of drivers and TEA personnel and

103
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 2: other people within the sport. But it was raw and

104
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 2: it was genuine. It was actually quite nice to watch

105
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 2: because this was unfiltered. I've just achieved something amazing. I'm

106
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,839
Speaker 2: not going to play it down. I'm not going to

107
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 2: put this mask up to hide how I really feel.

108
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to let it fly. And you look at

109
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 2: the way he drove over the course of the weekend.

110
00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 2: It's interesting that Martin Brundle picked up on it in

111
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,719
Speaker 2: commentary as a former driver and someone that should know

112
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 2: these things. There was a tension. He looked stiff in

113
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 2: the car, if that makes sense, the way he drove

114
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 2: all weekend, because you can't help but drive unnaturally in

115
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,719
Speaker 2: that situation where you are defending a lead that, to

116
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,920
Speaker 2: all intents and purposes, is kind of unbeatable. You would

117
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 2: have to be the architect of your own demise here,

118
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 2: and as wide as competitive as these guys are, you

119
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 2: can't help but have that in your mind somewhere. You

120
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 2: can't completely push it to the back. So when he won,

121
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 2: there was that outpouring of relief too, because you know,

122
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,080
Speaker 2: you think of the alternate universe where he doesn't win it,

123
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 2: and what would have happened. After that, there's a sense

124
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,200
Speaker 2: of relief that didn't happen. But yeah, like you, I

125
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 2: enjoyed the post race because it felt quite authentic, really yeah.

126
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 1: And I like as well that not that so many

127
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,200
Speaker 1: drivers win the title and then go on a ram

128
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,159
Speaker 1: page of how great they are, but that Lando Norris

129
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,320
Speaker 1: is very reflective, not just on the journey of the championship,

130
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,040
Speaker 1: but on his own flaws. Even in winning the championship,

131
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,480
Speaker 1: he had a great, big answer and he answered every

132
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 1: question that extensive length about how many mistakes he made

133
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,600
Speaker 1: this year and how he starts to improve next year,

134
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,599
Speaker 1: and how he can't be compared to Max with Staffan

135
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 1: or even Lewis Hamilton before him as world champions because

136
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 1: he's just not in their league at the moment. He

137
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 1: still has a lot to prove. It almost did our

138
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,720
Speaker 1: work for us in setting up the twenty twenty six

139
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,479
Speaker 1: season really as he's defending championship a year. So I

140
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that element of him as well. And you know, yeah,

141
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 1: you use the word authentic, I think that is very

142
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,800
Speaker 1: authentically Lando Norris. I think he spoke as well, and

143
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 1: several drivers it Corloor Science in particular, being a former

144
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 1: teammate of vis At mclarenen about how Norris proved he

145
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,680
Speaker 1: could win it his way. He didn't have to change

146
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 1: himself as a person. He didn't have to become like Max,

147
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 1: he didn't have to become that ruthless driver. I think

148
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,039
Speaker 1: back to an interview I think he gave to the

149
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 1: Guardian way back at the start of the year, saying

150
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,320
Speaker 1: that he didn't think he had a killer instinct, but

151
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,159
Speaker 1: that he thought he could win the title without one,

152
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 1: and the evidence is that he can. He did. He's

153
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 1: proven it to himself. He won it by two points,

154
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 1: but two points is old enough. In fact, it's double

155
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: the points required to win the world champion, so you

156
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 1: could say he dominated in that respect. I want to

157
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 1: turn our attention very briefly to his celebrations afterwards. Was

158
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,479
Speaker 1: wrapped up at six am. I just really enjoyed this line.

159
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not funny on its own. After six am

160
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,119
Speaker 1: and I quote then a little McDonald's. I really wanted

161
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:16,720
Speaker 1: some chicken nuggets, but it was the morning, so they

162
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 1: didn't have any left. I had a sausage McMuffin. Was

163
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: it the breakfast of champions? Certainly not I regretted it

164
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 1: straight away, So.

165
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 2: No McDonald's goes on that car next year then, But

166
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 2: and it is quite funny that you go through all

167
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 2: of this. There's so much to do with the aftermath

168
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 2: of any end of season, let alone when you've won

169
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 2: the World Championship. And at the end he's just a

170
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 2: hungry young bloke looking for a fleet at six am,

171
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 2: like so many of us have been so many times

172
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,560
Speaker 2: in our lives, yet resorting to the thing that was

173
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,200
Speaker 2: open and then instantly regretting it. We've all been there, Land,

174
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 2: we just have less money on the credit card than

175
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:51,520
Speaker 2: you do.

176
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 1: Well, could get back a little bit to Lando Norris,

177
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 1: and I suppose the historical aspect or the future looking

178
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 1: aspect of this time. A little bit later on, I

179
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 1: want to touch on Maxis Staffen as well, who won

180
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 1: the Grand Prix, came very close two points away from

181
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 1: winning the title. This is a year in which, because

182
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,760
Speaker 1: it's so close, you can come up with any number

183
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 1: of hypotheticals in which any of the top three win

184
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 1: the championship. I mean, had andre Kimi Antonelli not slither

185
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 1: it off the road in Kata and held fifth place

186
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,680
Speaker 1: or fourth places, there was ahead of Lando Norris, then

187
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,240
Speaker 1: this might have been enough to win the title for

188
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 1: Maxis Staffen. Just don't mention the Spanish Grand Prix, because

189
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,600
Speaker 1: you get quite the snarky response from Max, who wasn't

190
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,480
Speaker 1: appreciative at all being asked whether or not he regretted

191
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 1: crashing into George Russell deliberately and being penalized for it,

192
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,040
Speaker 1: costing many more than the two points that ended up

193
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,720
Speaker 1: deciding the title. He pointed out that, well, you probably

194
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 1: didn't deserve all the mistakes McLaren made late in the

195
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 1: year to keep him in contention. I suppose that's true too,

196
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,080
Speaker 1: But Matt I really thought this race felt like a

197
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 1: little bit of almost a microcosm of the second half

198
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,079
Speaker 1: of the season overall, from the start of practice where

199
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing looked a little bit out of it,

200
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,520
Speaker 1: not out of the ballpark completely, but not on McLaren's pace.

201
00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 1: Then Saturday they turned up and they were thereabouts in practice,

202
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 1: and then in qualifying with Staffan puts in two laps

203
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 1: good enough for poland Q three. Thinking about the way

204
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: that Lando Norris looked a little bit stiff, I thought

205
00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,240
Speaker 1: that was really reflective of the sense he must have

206
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,199
Speaker 1: had that Red Bull Racing was inevitable this weekend, a

207
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 1: weekend and McLaren thought would suit its card good enough

208
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 1: that they could just grind out the result in the

209
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,280
Speaker 1: end adjusted that but without being able to win the race.

210
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,760
Speaker 1: This felt like and Vestapen suggested this as well, despite

211
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,600
Speaker 1: it not being a title winning campaign, a really complete

212
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,720
Speaker 1: and impressive performance from him. It almost feels like, to

213
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,840
Speaker 1: use I guess an English sporting term, the moral victory

214
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 1: for Max with Staffan.

215
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 2: You won't be hearing that on the sky coverage. We no.

216
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 2: I've just been simultaneously amazed yet not at the same

217
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 2: time of the amount of times this year they've turned

218
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 2: up at a race weekend Red Bull and Friday has

219
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,559
Speaker 2: just been like, oh, what are these guys doing? Like

220
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 2: they're supposed to be better than this, and they're constantly

221
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 2: chasing their tail. This is not the way to win

222
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 2: a world championship. And then by the time you get

223
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,800
Speaker 2: to Q three twenty four hours later, it's all sorted

224
00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 2: because you've got the combination of them being able to

225
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you could say they're very good

226
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,760
Speaker 2: at engineering their way out of black holes because they've

227
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,559
Speaker 2: done it so many times. This year. But you combine

228
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,160
Speaker 2: that relentlessness and then the whole thing with Verstapan is

229
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,000
Speaker 2: it's never give me the easiest car to drive, give

230
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 2: me the theoretically fastest car to drive, and I'll just

231
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 2: make it work. And it's part of the problem why

232
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,880
Speaker 2: they're just going through so many other drivers in the

233
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 2: other car, because that's not really a sustainable way for

234
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 2: ninety five percent of Formula One drivers to go racing.

235
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 2: But he is the great difference maker at the moment.

236
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 2: And yes, you know, he just failed to become the

237
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,040
Speaker 2: first driver to win five consecutive championships since Michael Schumacher

238
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 2: and only the second driver ever to do that. If

239
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 2: you're wondering where Max the Stapan sits in the all

240
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,720
Speaker 2: time record books, that probably gives you a bit of

241
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 2: a hint. But I just think this is the absolute

242
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,559
Speaker 2: best version of him we've seen, because I mean, how

243
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,679
Speaker 2: many times this year did he and Red Bull right

244
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 2: off their championship chances. And we've said this on previous

245
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 2: podcasts in that I can't think of another driver in

246
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 2: the field that would have been able to have even

247
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,880
Speaker 2: got this to the last round, let alone, you know,

248
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 2: finished two points away from winning it and we can

249
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 2: debate who the second, third, fifth, our best driver is

250
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,680
Speaker 2: in Formula one at the moment. To my mind, the

251
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,640
Speaker 2: gap between one and two and whatever follows after that

252
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 2: has not been bigger in the Vestapan era than it

253
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,520
Speaker 2: is this year. What's really interesting to me is that

254
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,840
Speaker 2: the red Bull that we see for the Australian Grand

255
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 2: Prix next March when everyone gets back down to Albert Park,

256
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,280
Speaker 2: is so so different from a team and organization that

257
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,080
Speaker 2: has had quite a lot for F one term's stability

258
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 2: over the course of their journey. And they were the

259
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 2: same team principle until midway through this year. A lot

260
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,960
Speaker 2: of the same faces in the same roles. You go

261
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 2: into a new rule set, new engine partner, everything is

262
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 2: changed except for the one difference maker that they have.

263
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 2: And so the interesting part for me is are we

264
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,559
Speaker 2: going to look back at twenty twenty five wistfully and think, oh,

265
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,320
Speaker 2: how good was Max Verstappen that year he didn't win

266
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,320
Speaker 2: the world title? But look at what's happened to them

267
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,200
Speaker 2: since I think that's the interesting subject for me. But

268
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,599
Speaker 2: in terms of the fact this even got to the

269
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,079
Speaker 2: last round, given they won the constructors in was it

270
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,959
Speaker 2: Singapore they won the Constructor. I think it was six

271
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,000
Speaker 2: six rounds to go. This should have been dead and

272
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,960
Speaker 2: buried well before avid Dhabi. The fact that it came

273
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 2: down to the last racers season, it was great for

274
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,920
Speaker 2: the TV spectacle until we remembered that we were in Avidhabi.

275
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 2: It was great in prospect for the TV spectacle and

276
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 2: the worldwide audience that we got a final round of

277
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 2: the season. But a testament to how good he's been

278
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 2: this year. I don't know about you. There's not another

279
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,760
Speaker 2: driver that could have taken this to the last round?

280
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,679
Speaker 1: Is there no more wins than both well either Piastri

281
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 1: and Norris. Eight victories ends the season with which is remarkable,

282
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,600
Speaker 1: almost all of them coming since the mid season break,

283
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,840
Speaker 1: during which time he's been clearly the best driver in

284
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 1: the field. I just want to breathe, very briefly, detour

285
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,120
Speaker 1: to Yuki Sonoda, who had his last race for every racing,

286
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,599
Speaker 1: perhaps the last race of his career, and detO or

287
00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 1: even a step backwards to Sergio Peris, because we want

288
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 1: to compare twenty twenty one and twenty twenty five. Maybe

289
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 1: you don't, but Sergio Peis does, who are tweeted just

290
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 1: a single word added emoji lackning, invoking comparisons between Sonoda's

291
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 1: defense of Lando Norris early in the race in his

292
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,040
Speaker 1: defense of Lewis Halmter. It did have a pivotal role

293
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: in Maxwistappen when he his first world title. This for

294
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 1: me probably wasn't the victory lap Peis thought it was

295
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,920
Speaker 1: because I mean, last year he retired with crash damage

296
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,720
Speaker 1: from the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. So that's maybe a

297
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,800
Speaker 1: more accurate direct comparison and qualified I think at exactly

298
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,719
Speaker 1: the same place as Sonoda in fact, with a very

299
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 1: similar margin. But it shows that in painting that picture

300
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,480
Speaker 1: of where Red Bull Racing is actually out with or

301
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,600
Speaker 1: without the stapan, there are some pretty significant questions to answer.

302
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,079
Speaker 1: You know, Isaac Hadg is going to be promoted to

303
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,880
Speaker 1: that seat next year. Good luck to him in his

304
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,280
Speaker 1: final year in Formula one, I suppose, but there's a

305
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 1: big question there.

306
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And look the fact that Vastapen was really sort

307
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,560
Speaker 2: of plowing alone Farr for so much of this season.

308
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,280
Speaker 2: If there was ever a race weekend where you needed

309
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,719
Speaker 2: the guy and the sister car to actually be available

310
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 2: to deploy strategically for more than three hundred meters over

311
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,600
Speaker 2: the course of a y eight lap Grand Prix. This

312
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,960
Speaker 2: was it, and this was the problem that Verstappen faced

313
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,199
Speaker 2: towards the end of the season then that he had

314
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 2: to do it all by himself because there was no

315
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 2: help coming from the other side. And it's amazing to think.

316
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 2: And I've just written this somewhere else today, so it's

317
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 2: front of mine. But Hajar is going to be Verstapan's

318
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 2: sixth different teammate since Daniel Ricardo left Red Bull. That

319
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 2: is absolutely wild and given the way that they've got

320
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,400
Speaker 2: about it. Look, I wish Isaac haja are all the

321
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,000
Speaker 2: good luck in the world, and he's had a much

322
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 2: better rookie season than probably all of us were expecting.

323
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,200
Speaker 2: But evidence suggests that you're not there for a long

324
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 2: time or a good time if you're in the second

325
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:35,160
Speaker 2: seat next to mix for Stappen.

326
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,120
Speaker 1: Good all right, we've got to talk about Oscar Pastri.

327
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 1: Of course we do. Australia's World Championship hope. His championship

328
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: hopes came to a close by margin of thirteen points

329
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 1: at the end of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. A

330
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 1: season of many elements for him, a very strong start

331
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 1: after he got past his Australian Grand Prix, what looked

332
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 1: like consolidation after the mid season break when he won

333
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 1: the Dutch Grand Prix. Some reasonable races after that, of course,

334
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 1: barring Azerbaijan where he had a bizarre crash prone twenty

335
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 1: four hours, and then a form slump through the Americas

336
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 1: which left him behind Lando Norris and the title chase

337
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 1: and only with a mathematical chance really of winning it

338
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,440
Speaker 1: in Abu Dhabi. A lot of elements to dissect you,

339
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 1: but let's just start with the big one. What do

340
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 1: you think we take away from Piastre season overall? Here

341
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 1: came very close for a time, looked like the guy

342
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 1: who would just win it by virtue of his lead,

343
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 1: falls just short. But this is only his third season

344
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 1: in Formula one.

345
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing we've got. As much as

346
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 2: you can talk about the thirty four point lead after

347
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 2: Zandvoort and the wins and everything else, if you had

348
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 2: told us that this was going to be the outcome

349
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 2: for Oscar Piastre at the start of the season, even

350
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 2: before Melbourne, and then particularly afterwards, given that what happened

351
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 2: in that race and those twenty three points that he

352
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 2: shipped to his teammate. This is a massive pass mark

353
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,000
Speaker 2: for him considering how young he is in his Formula

354
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 2: One journey. But and you know, it's a big caveat here.

355
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,320
Speaker 2: You can't help but look at this as being the

356
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 2: one that got away simply because McLaren was so much

357
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 2: better than everybody else for the majority of the year

358
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 2: that they turned the tap off on the development of

359
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 2: that car mid season because they figured it was just

360
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 2: going to be an intro team fight for the title,

361
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,680
Speaker 2: not counting god backs for staff and Exzuombi givebiself from

362
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 2: the grave that Red Buller put him into player factor

363
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 2: in this. And you know, when you're up against a

364
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 2: guy who you know, someone like Norris, who you know,

365
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:25,760
Speaker 2: he's been pretty public and the way that he beats

366
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,240
Speaker 2: himself up when things go don't go particularly well. He

367
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 2: never won a championship before either, it was all new

368
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 2: to him. It was all new to McLaren. This felt

369
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 2: like an amazing opportunity for Piastre to do something ahead

370
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,040
Speaker 2: of schedule. Simply was the way that circumstances conspire. And

371
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 2: so yeah, when you've had a lead of that much

372
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 2: and you've gone down by thirteen points. You know, in

373
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 2: totality you finished third in the World Championship and your

374
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 2: thirteen points off the world champion. That's a very very

375
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 2: good season. But you can't help just think, oh, man,

376
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 2: you know there's still there's still some weaknesses in the

377
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,720
Speaker 2: physical game, I guess, and we saw that on the

378
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 2: low grip tracks when F one goes through the Americas

379
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 2: and there's a couple of things there that he needs

380
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 2: to clean up. But his career so far has been this.

381
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,679
Speaker 2: You know, you win around the margins in Formula one

382
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 2: and the speed's not in question, the temperament and all

383
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 2: of that. But you know, a couple of seasons ago

384
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 2: it was tire management and it was qualifying pace, and

385
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,440
Speaker 2: there's all these little deficiencies that he has cleaned up.

386
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,919
Speaker 2: So there's a track record there to think that some

387
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,360
Speaker 2: of his form on these lower grip tracks he will

388
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,880
Speaker 2: find a way to mitigate that and they will never

389
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 2: be a massive strength. But they're also not going to

390
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 2: be a huge weakness either. The curious part for me,

391
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,360
Speaker 2: and look, he's not likely to say, at least not now.

392
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 2: It might be something that comes up in the future.

393
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,919
Speaker 2: You know, you talk about small margins with these things,

394
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,920
Speaker 2: but psychologically what the Monza swap order did for him mentally,

395
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 2: and the fact that yes, it was a three point

396
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 2: swig and not Zoo Boyds. He could say it was

397
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 2: pretty critical, but it was more what it did in

398
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 2: the moment and maybe some of the doubts that a

399
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 2: simple instruction might have placed in his head that I'm

400
00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 2: sure he wasn't thinking about it every single day of

401
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 2: the week, and it's very, very hard to It's like

402
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,919
Speaker 2: that itchy can't scratch, isn't it. It's there, You know

403
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 2: it's there, and it affects you more on some days

404
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 2: more than others. It'd be really interesting one day if

405
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 2: he actually ever opens up about that. He did a

406
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 2: little bit on the Beyond the Group podcast where he

407
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 2: kind of alluded to it but didn't go too far

408
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,880
Speaker 2: with that. But we've discussed it on this podcast ad

409
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 2: nauseum this year. It was a bit of an overreach,

410
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 2: and I guess you could say for McLaren that, you know,

411
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 2: the end did justify the memes, but you also wonder

412
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,120
Speaker 2: about what damage that did between Oscars years, between Monza

413
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 2: and the end of the season, because coincidentally or not

414
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 2: he wasn't the same driver after that, and you know

415
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 2: we talked about Zanfort and that thirty four point lead.

416
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 2: That was the last time he won a Grand Prix

417
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 2: and so all of the former momentum he had in

418
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 2: the first two thirds of the year just completely dissipated. Now,

419
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 2: whether these things are what's the same correlational causation, I

420
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 2: guess we'll never know. But one of these days I

421
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,399
Speaker 2: m I actually say something about it. But on the whole,

422
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,160
Speaker 2: I mean for him and his team and the people

423
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,919
Speaker 2: around him, and also Australian Formula one fans to have

424
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,120
Speaker 2: someone that close to winning the world title and being

425
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 2: a legitimate shot for it in the way that Daniel

426
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,640
Speaker 2: Ricardo never felt like he was, or Mark Webber ever

427
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 2: felt like he was. It's a new experience for us

428
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 2: here as Australian media, Australian fans, the Australian Grand Prix

429
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 2: in the event here and what Formula One is now

430
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five. You'd have to say it's a

431
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 2: massive success of a season, but one with a little

432
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,160
Speaker 2: bit of a bitter after taste. I guess yeah.

433
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 1: And I think the question now is to encompass a

434
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 1: little bit of all of that is, he goes into

435
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: next season not just as the driver who came close

436
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: to the world title, who led more rounds than any

437
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 1: other driver this season, but as the teammate of the

438
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 1: reigning drivers champion. There'll be a number one in the

439
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,479
Speaker 1: garage next to him, no longer the number four. And

440
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 1: I wonder how that changes or not the dynamic because

441
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 1: you're thinking back to some of the flash points this year,

442
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 1: and you're right, because the Italian Grand Prix team all

443
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: does not happen, max Verstaffn would have won the title.

444
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 1: So whether or not you want to draw a direct

445
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 1: link between those points in the title, there's some at

446
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: least subtle reinforcement to McLaren that everything it did this

447
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 1: year was right, that it's gut instinct was correct, because

448
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: it ended up winning both titles as the culmination of

449
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: all of it decisions. So on the one hand, you'd

450
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,919
Speaker 1: be tempted to think not much changes, but then you

451
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 1: consider the fact that they have a driver's title to

452
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 1: defend next year. The team does because driver's title also

453
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 1: belongs to the team in a way, How does that

454
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 1: change the dynamic inside the team? Does it change even

455
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: if Pastri emerges and has taken another massive step forward

456
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,679
Speaker 1: like he did between twenty four and twenty five, and

457
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 1: Norris takes a more incremental step. What will the confidence

458
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 1: effects be Orlando Norris by running that number one, by

459
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 1: having proven to himself he can win the world title?

460
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: Does he change the game? While everything is evolutionary in

461
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: formula one, putting the break changes to one side, And

462
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,199
Speaker 1: whether or McLaren's going to be good we don't know.

463
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: But all the principles set up this year, you know,

464
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 1: you'd like to think they apply all the time, but

465
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 1: internally I think things do shift significantly because the status

466
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 1: of these drivers has changed now and the status of

467
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 1: what the team is going out to try and prove

468
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 1: has changed. Whether or not those rules can stand up

469
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 1: to those changes, I think is a really interesting question.

470
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 2: And you do wonder too that if McLaren had its

471
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 2: time over and where they public, will you would admit

472
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 2: this or not? To my mind, the whole Papyah rules thing,

473
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: because it's been done to death and I'm kind of

474
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 2: sick of just Papius generally at this point. But it's

475
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 2: one of those ones that you do wonder if they

476
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: wish they'd try to keep that internal, because it's just

477
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: become this whole saying of Papyah rules has just become

478
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 2: this lightning rod for criticism and debate and questioning and

479
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 2: everything else. You can still have the same set of

480
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 2: rules and still adhere to them, but maybe keep it

481
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 2: something more internal, or just don't name it after a fruit.

482
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's something that's been concocted in some

483
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 2: sort of marketing meeting where a lot of people nod

484
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 2: to each other, and it plays really badly in the

485
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 2: outside world. But you can still have the same rules

486
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 2: and principles, and goodness knows, we've known teams that have

487
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 2: had that over the years. It's just that it became

488
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 2: so public and became such a lightning rod for criticism

489
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: that you know, they probably like their time over. And yeah,

490
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 2: you can say that the end justifies the means, but

491
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 2: there was far too much angst, quite frankly, for a

492
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 2: team that had the best car by an absolute mile

493
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: for the majority of twenty twenty five made a very

494
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: very hard for themselves. Yes, got the result, they were

495
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 2: onto it, but yeah, maybe if they had their time over,

496
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 2: keep that one internal.

497
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: Perhaps at least just keep the name internal. I think

498
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: that'll be the number one thing they'd go back and change.

499
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: Just not use that word correct, just use the color

500
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: of the car's orange. Yes, I know that's also our fruit,

501
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: and it's not. It doesn't need to be named papaya anyone.

502
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: It's surely not the same exact color. Beside the point,

503
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: let's move on. Map to Move of the Week, brought

504
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: to you by Shannon's. This is the end of the

505
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: motorsports seat International motorsports, most international motorsports season. There's some

506
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: racing over the off season, okay, but just the Formula

507
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: One Grand Prix on at the weekend. What moves at

508
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: Abu Dhabi caught your eye?

509
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: That's the toughest question you've asked me all year, apparently,

510
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: So I had to look at that went and had

511
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 2: to look at the stats. Apparently there was sixty overtakes

512
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 2: in Abu Dhabi. Yes, right, I reckon, We saw I reckon.

513
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: We saw about six of those. Because the entire TV

514
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: coverage there was all sorts going on down the field

515
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: in Abu Dhabi. By the way, you had to read

516
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: about it in retrospects twenty four to forty eight hour later.

517
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 2: Because the TV coverage caught absolutely none of it. You

518
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: had positions in the top ten being changed after the

519
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: race for people breaching track limits and blocking and weaving

520
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: and doing all sorts of nonsense. But to my mind,

521
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 2: the move of the week is, yes, that little period

522
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: of the race where Norris was pitched into some traffic

523
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 2: and he had to do some overtaking sort of lap

524
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen. I think he was ninth after that pit stop,

525
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: and given what was at stake and the sort of

526
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: the stiffness that he's driving that we were talking about,

527
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 2: had to pass him out Nelly. He passed Ley and

528
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: lost it in last strolling one move before heading off

529
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: towards Yuki Sonoda, and that was its own story. But

530
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: when you give someone you can so easily tag a

531
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: front wing there, or hit a curb too hard, or

532
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: just get it slightly wrong. And given that he was

533
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 2: driving a little bit stiff over the course of the weekend,

534
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: you can imagine Norris coming out of that pit stop

535
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 2: and that said, all right, you've got to overtake a

536
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: B and C here and you take the big intake

537
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: of breathless like if I get one of these wrong.

538
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: The ramifications of this massive so the fact that yes,

539
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 2: in a fastup car, but executed them cleanly. I did

540
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 2: like the double pass of Lawson and Stroll, which I

541
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: thought was quite fun. So yeah, given a difficult situation,

542
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 2: Authorughty passed it with flying colors, and given the absence

543
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: of other options, Michael, I'm going with that as a

544
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 2: movement the week.

545
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: Very good. You've taken all the overtakes as so as I.

546
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: There's five in that group, but that's quite okay. I

547
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: give it to you.

548
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: Well, there's fifty five to go.

549
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's exactly right. Yes, I'll choose Oliver bem

550
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: and passing. Yuki said, I don't know, I'm going to choose.

551
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: I know there's a little last risk of this after

552
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: the fact, but I'm going to put Piastre overtaking Norris

553
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: on the first lap at turn nine. Yeah. It was

554
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: very impressive at the time or dats at the time.

555
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: Afterwards we learned that Norris probably and well probably knew

556
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: at the time anyway, but sort of let it go

557
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: a little bit because he knew that that was going

558
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: to work for him, having Piastre between him and Bestap

559
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: and Piastre on the hard attire pressuring Bestap and nonetheless

560
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: he had to pull it off, but also impressive for

561
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: I think a couple of different reasons that just speak

562
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: to all of the factors going into that last race.

563
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: One is that, as we saw, Norris was willing to

564
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: play the numbers game and hopeful that he wouldn't drop

565
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: a fourth because that did put him on the bubble

566
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: even if he had Team Orders in his pocket at

567
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: the end, still a risk there. But the other is

568
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: that I think it did speak to the number one

569
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: question into the weekend was Team Orders. Would McLaren just

570
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: back Norris would at some point it just understand that

571
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: Piastre is such a long shot they'd throw him, throw

572
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: him away essentially, but Piastre was allowed to run an

573
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: alternative strategy. It had the double benefit of helping Norris,

574
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: but it was the only strategy he really had to

575
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: maybe capitalize on something silly happening late in the race

576
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: and then maybe put himself in a position to win

577
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: by starting on the hard tire, running really deep, hoping

578
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 1: for a safety car or red flag or something to

579
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: battle with their stap and put some pressure on early on.

580
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: So Piastre going forward as well, taking that strategy, taking

581
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: the hard tire with less grip on the first lap,

582
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: making that move, applying that pressure, I just thought was

583
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: a good way for him to end his season. It

584
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: was a little bit muted, as I think we were

585
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: saying earlier. We're talking before the podcast cut, remember a

586
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: somewhat muted end to Piastre's season, notwithstanding that he absolutely

587
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: dominated the cut our week end with everything except victory.

588
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,239
Speaker 1: For obvious reasons, I thought that was just still a

589
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: good way to end season. I also thought it was

590
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of a nice bookmark, passing Norris around

591
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: the outside of turn nine, casting our minds back to

592
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: Australia where the move that got him ninth place. Who

593
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: knows could have been important in the points tally on

594
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: Lewis Hamilton through the Chicane. I just thought a nice

595
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 1: way to remind us going into the break that YESPS

596
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: three is still there. He's still the driver we saw

597
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: in three quarters of the season. It just wasn't in

598
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: a position to claim the title at the end.

599
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: I agreed it was nice to have him back for

600
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: Guitar and Abu Dhabi because what happened between what from

601
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: Azerbaijan onwards was a bit of a pay limitation for

602
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: what he was for the majority of the year, which

603
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: was very good. As we discussed earlier.

604
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: Let's wrap up the season now with a couple of

605
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: questions I think heading into twenty six, still reflecting on

606
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: twenty five, you know we've got one more episode of

607
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: the podcast to go as well, so let's not call

608
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: it final. But this season has left us with some

609
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: questions to ponder, both retrospectively thinking about where this season

610
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: stands for the careers of drivers, but also looking forward

611
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: to twenty twenty six when there is going to be

612
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: a significant change with the cars, perhaps with the pecking order.

613
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: That's the hope for some teams at least, unless so

614
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: for others. But let's start again with Lando Norris. He's

615
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: thirty fifth world champion. Now you'll have heard repeatedly also

616
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 1: the eleventh British world champion. Not really relevant for our purposes,

617
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: but it's certainly become one of the talking points that

618
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: ten British drivers have preceded him. What kind of champion, though,

619
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: do you think he is? Because to my mind, as

620
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: we've spoken about, Matt has cut himself from a different

621
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: clot certainly of a recent world champions of well they've

622
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: really only been Max with stapp and Lewis Hamilton Nico

623
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: Rosburg in the last decade, but feels like a change

624
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: of pace. I think some people haven't liked that. Some

625
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: people have felt like that that's somehow detracts from greatness.

626
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: I suppose maybe they've got used to having all time clear,

627
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: all time great swinning book. What do you think this

628
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: stands him up in the history of Formula One acknowledging

629
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: of course that he's not done.

630
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is interesting that you think back as far

631
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: as the last time we had a multi driver Abu

632
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: Dhabi Finale was twenty ten. You look at the guys

633
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: that have won championship since then, there's not many of

634
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: them because they aastually in Vettel won for in a

635
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: row and Lewis Hamilton won six and seven years of

636
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: Max Vstappen one for in a row, so there's actually

637
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 2: not many names to choose from here. But it's interesting,

638
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 2: like do I see Norris as being some sort of

639
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: just winning machine now that he's got the first one,

640
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: and then you know we're about to enter the Norris

641
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: era like we had the vattal Era and the Vastapan Era.

642
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: I don't see that. But I also, to me, I

643
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: think he's he's more in the Jensen button jacques Ville

644
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: Nerve perhaps mold in that I can't see. You know,

645
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: we're going to go into this era of world championship

646
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: winning here he's more like that. But I also don't

647
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: think he's going to be one of these guys that

648
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: will just be happy with getting one and then just

649
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: that's fine. The startling thing with Norris, and it's because

650
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: he's been around for so long and they will start

651
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: so young these days. He's still only twenty six, and

652
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of headroom there to grow. And

653
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: then you look at the psychological makeup and the way

654
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: he goes about his racing. You do wonder what actually

655
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: having the pressure of winning one off your shoulder is

656
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: going to mean for where his potential ceiling might get to. Now,

657
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: did he need to win this first one to put

658
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: some of those doubts that he's admitted to having in

659
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: the cupboard and just getting him behind him? And then

660
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: do you maybe find a different level now that you've

661
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: got the pressure of well, at least I've done this.

662
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: You do wonder where it goes age wise? And profile

663
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: was he's got time to do that. But I don't

664
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: think we're going to eat. We're not going to look

665
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: back in six or seven years and go I remember

666
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: that five year period where Lando Norris won four world championships.

667
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: I think the depth, the depth is too great. The

668
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six rule changes are too much of an

669
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: unknown and I'm just not sure that he's that driver. Now.

670
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: That's not to say that he's not worthy of being

671
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: a world champion, because he's just proved that he is.

672
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: But I don't know about you, but I just don't

673
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: see this sort of sustained era of Lando Norris winning

674
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: championships just for fun coming up. But maybe you have

675
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: a different view than me.

676
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what I've been saying this week or

677
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: in the twenty four hours of hours since the race

678
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: is while Norris the star has risen and he has

679
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: achieved what a lot of people have thought he would

680
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: be capable of, what his raw speed has certainly made

681
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: him capable of, I don't feel like the vestapan era

682
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: has ended. No, perhaps he'll be a driver, and perhaps

683
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: here'll be other drivers as well, because if a stapan

684
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: Era could go, although well, he suggested it could be

685
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: limited to a few more years, but could go for

686
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: longer that he could be in that category of drivers

687
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: who had the misfortune of having their best years coincide

688
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: with verstaff and being on the grid. Now, luckily for him,

689
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got one, because it could so easily

690
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: have been him not winning this one and the next

691
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: year the rules changed. Who knows, maybe red balls engines

692
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: really good. We just get another four years of a

693
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: staff and then where's everyone left? But I don't see this,

694
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: I think would it would be a remarkable turn of events.

695
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: It actually this becomes the Lando Norris era. And again

696
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: that isn't to talk down his abilities, because I think

697
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: we've been blessed and or cursed depending on how you

698
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: want to look at it, to have lived now through

699
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: decades of all time f one greats. Maybe that's always

700
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: been the case, but certainly we've had these great, long

701
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: spells of domination color really the last two decades, I

702
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: mean from Schumacher. Then we had a Fernando or Lonso interlude.

703
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: We've got a couple of fun years where we had

704
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: some variety, but then, like you say, we vedel Hamilton Staffen.

705
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: May we maybe, but maybe this will be the beginning

706
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: of not the Norris era, but of the era of

707
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: more open competition. Maybe that's what the new rules will

708
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: usher in. I think that'll be interesting. Into question for

709
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: me is if we compare him to Verstaffen Verstapan after

710
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: winning his first Wall title did change, but I think

711
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 1: it actually was more about rounding out some rough edges.

712
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: You know, we've seen him actually dial his aggression back

713
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: as a result, maybe by one percent to one hundred

714
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: percent instead of one hundred and one. That compare some

715
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: of the moves he pulled in twenty twenty one, and

716
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: although clearly that's still a little bit in there, if

717
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: we think that Spain this year, Norris though for me,

718
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 1: feels much more like a confidence driving over Staffan has

719
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: never lacked confidence, but Norris clearly has. I'm really interested

720
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: to know whether there is another greater and unexpected level

721
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: for him to find going into a season being able

722
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: to call him the defending world champion an achnology, He's

723
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: still got gaps in his game, to feel how much

724
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: does confidence account for in that because of all the

725
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: drivers on the grid, at the front of the pack

726
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: and you ate the moment. I feel like for him

727
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: confidence is the factor for him that is the biggest

728
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: compared to the rest.

729
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed, And the decision to run the number one,

730
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: which you don't have to do it firus Lewis Hamilton

731
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: never did I do like that For what that symbolizes.

732
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: And if you are having one of those weekends when

733
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: you're a bit lost or things are a bit bad,

734
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: or these external factors or whatever it is, every time

735
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: you walk into that garage and you see that number

736
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: one on the nose cone of your car, that's that

737
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 2: little reminder. It's like, oh, yeah, I've done that already.

738
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: And as much as I don't think that's going to

739
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: make maxistappen any better or not, whether he has a

740
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: one or a thirty three on his car, is he's

741
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: going to have next year, which we haven't seen for

742
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: quite some time for someone of Norris's sort of probably

743
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: more open psychological profile. I think that is actually an

744
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: important thing. I'm glad that he's running it. I just

745
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: think that if you ever win the World Championship, why

746
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: the hell would you not if you don't want to

747
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: change social media hashtag or something like what are we

748
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: actually doing here? The number one is something that is

749
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,479
Speaker 2: so precious because you are the best in the world

750
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: in a truly global sport, and you have achieved that.

751
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 2: Your whole life's been about doing that. The choice to

752
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: not run it for other reasons seems a little bit

753
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 2: silly to me. I'm glad that he's decided to embrace that.

754
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, every time you see the front of the

755
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: orange slash Papa McLaren next year with a one on it,

756
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: that'll certainly make you walk a little bit taller.

757
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 1: I'd say, all right, let's flip this question on its

758
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: ted now and reflect on Oscar Piastree's season a little

759
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: bit more. Obviously didn't win the title, as you said,

760
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: though this would have been an early victory. I think

761
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: if you've gone back to before Australia, no one would

762
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: have expected him to have certainly led the championship, but

763
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: even potentially be in title contention. No one gave him

764
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: the credit that now seems so obvious to have given

765
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: him after the season he had. But do you think

766
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: he needed to lose this championship to understand what it's

767
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: going to take to win one in the future. Acknowledging

768
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: though not to preface out to preview our next question,

769
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: but it's pretty rare to come back and beat a

770
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: teammate to the title in F one history.

771
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: It is, Yeah, that's that's something we need to think

772
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: about for sure. But look, to my mind, does he

773
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: need to learn to lose one to know how to win? Will? Clearly,

774
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: because there's still things that he will acknowledge it he

775
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: needs to get better at and he has acknowledged that.

776
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: And so my takeaway for him this season is the

777
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: ceiling's high enough, but there's a need to raise this

778
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: floor and that we've seen how good he can be

779
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: when he's absolutely at his apex, but the rope raises,

780
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: all the bad weekends are still dragging him down a

781
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: bit too much. But the one thing anticipating this, I

782
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 2: wanted to look at the first three after the first

783
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: three seasons for Norris and for Stappan, the two other

784
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: guys in the championship mix this year, you know, because

785
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: it does feel like Piastre has skipped a few steps,

786
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: the fact that he's already here in season number three.

787
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: So after three seasons, Landa Norris had five total podiums

788
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: and Maxis Stappan had three total wins. After his first

789
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: three seasons in Formula one, Oscar Piastre is tied for

790
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: third for the most wins Byustralian driver in Formula One

791
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: ever with Mark Webber with nine wins after three seasons.

792
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: So you look at the first three seasons of those

793
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: three drivers that were in the mix this year, you

794
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: would have to say, well, Oscar Piastri's on a very

795
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 2: very good path of the potential greatness based on what

796
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: the others did in their first three seasons. Now, he

797
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: is a little bit older than Vastappen was or Norris

798
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 2: was because they both started so young. But three seasons

799
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: is three seasons and being in this level of championship

800
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: fight and with some very obvious and it wouldn't say easy,

801
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: but certainly evident things that you can clean up. Being

802
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: in this position, he's probably ahead of schedule and the

803
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: lessons that you learn from losing one. He doesn't strike

804
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: me as a guy who's going to be continually making

805
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: the same mistakes and we've seen that over the course

806
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: of his career so far. If that continues to track,

807
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: then yeah, why not. I think ahead of schedule and

808
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: has skipped steps. But it does feel that he needing

809
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 2: to lose a championships a strange term, because no one

810
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: really wants to do this, but sometimes longer term it's

811
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: in your benefit. But I know, does any of that

812
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: make sense? Because you know, for him to have come

813
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: through and won this year would feel incredibly ahead of

814
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: schedule as good as it would have been.

815
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I think I just reflecting or thinking

816
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: while you were talking that there are only so many

817
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: drivers you could put into this scenario so early and

818
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: expect them to get better rather than struggle, Like there's

819
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: several drivers you'd put in the car who you know

820
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: the first year I was pretty ropy with McLaren are

821
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: still sort of at a low level that have improved

822
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: a lot in the second half of the season, and

823
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: then last year to be content for the results to

824
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: matter for the Constructors' Championship big pressure, and then this

825
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: year to be contending for the title massive pressure. There

826
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: are a lot of other drivers who are talent and

827
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: who are fast, who maybe would have been as fast

828
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: in their first year as Piastre was, who I just

829
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: couldn't see kicking on in the same way that he,

830
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: who would have struggled under the pressure of suddenly leading

831
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: the championship this year and then perhaps collapse because Norris

832
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: would have been able to redouble his game a bit better,

833
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: there would have been more gaps in it or whatever.

834
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: I think that's also testament to him, you know that

835
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: thinking about the trajectory moving forward, the fact that it's

836
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: largely unbent by the pressure of this year is very impressive.

837
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: And you know, we talk about raising his floor and

838
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: that is ultimately that's I think the case for most

839
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: drivers at the point end of the fielding. It's the

840
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: case with Norris as well. For Stappen I suppose as well.

841
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: The floor is pretty small though. You know, there were

842
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: a couple of races that were extremely costly, but really

843
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: they were a couple of races. You know, after Italy

844
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: he had some quiet rounds but nothing dire. You know,

845
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: Singapore was he had podium pace, he qualified higher up.

846
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: It was the bump at the start, and then nothing

847
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: happened in that Grand Prix. Even as a vaiant he

848
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: had pace, but it was obviously just a dreadful weekend

849
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: for me. It really just comes down to Austin and

850
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: Mexico City, maybe to a lesser extent Brazil, but again

851
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: should have finished second there where it not for the penalty.

852
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: That's not a lot of improvements required, you know and

853
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: have had if we had our can total repeat next

854
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: year of this season, and you said all you had

855
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: to do is score a little bit better in Austin

856
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: and Mexico City. That seems very achievable considering everything we

857
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: know about how he improves race to race and year

858
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: to year. So I think you will be better off

859
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: for the lessons this year, but not necessarily because it

860
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: cost him the title, simply because it was another year.

861
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: And the other thing too that we need to factor

862
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: in where these seasons just get longer and longer. There

863
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: are twenty four rounds, which means there are more chances

864
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: to make mistakes or to have rope weekends than there's

865
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: ever been because trying to sustain that level over so

866
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 2: many stops over a I mean, you look at the

867
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: last three rounds of this season and where we've been

868
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: in the past three weeks. It still defies any sort

869
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 2: of sense or logic that we've gone Vegas, Qatar, Abi

870
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: Dhabi in three weeks. And there's a human element to

871
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: all of this. So yeah, you get to the end

872
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: of a twenty four round season, you are probably going

873
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: to have one or two that are not so great

874
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 2: because there's so many of them.

875
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: Yes, and we had a good old fashioned sixteen round season,

876
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: he would have won the championship. So just think about it,

877
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: all right, Yes, let's think about a question that's been

878
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: kicked around a lot in the last week. I think

879
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 1: they're just quietly as well. Been a lot of hyperbole

880
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: in the last week, but that's understandable considering the title

881
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: decided brings out a lot of emotion. But the question

882
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: I've been asked a lot that's being asked a lot.

883
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: Does Piastre need to leave McLaren, we should add here

884
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: to win the world title. I don't think he needs

885
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: to leave McLaren full stop. That's not much of a question.

886
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: But we said it's very rare historically for drivers to

887
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: beat their defending either the defending World championship teammates or

888
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,479
Speaker 1: the teamates who have won a championship with that team

889
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: in subsequent season, So he'd be doing something that would

890
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 1: be unusual if you were to win or to beat

891
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: Norris to a title while they both raced for McLaren.

892
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: Does that mean he needs to seek his first world

893
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: championship elsewhere?

894
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 2: As you're reading that question, I'm trying to think of

895
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: the last one, and you'll probably have a better You

896
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 2: can at least jump on Fox while I'm talking here

897
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: and try and find it. But I'm trying to think

898
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: who was who was the last driver to do that? Anyway,

899
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: that's another discussion. N okay, Yeah, sure, and then promptly retired.

900
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: Is Oscar Piastre this decade's Nico rospin if they're very

901
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: cruel if for his post race appearance fee, I certainly

902
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: hope so. But the way you framed that was interesting.

903
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 2: Does he need to leave McLaren? No? Does he need

904
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: to leave McLaren to win a world title, even if

905
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: that's longer term? Maybe? And I'd be less adamant about

906
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: this if the twenty twenty five rules carried over to

907
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 2: next year, because you know, if you look at where

908
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: McLaren was at the end of twenty twenty four, they

909
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 2: won the constructors Championship, it was no surprise that they

910
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: were going to be good this year because you were

911
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: at the end of a mature rule set and they

912
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: had the high ground, and that's the way it played

913
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: out over the course of the year. Twenty six is

914
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: such a reset here and your point of you know,

915
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 2: once momentum in a team shifts behind one driver simply

916
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: by dint of the success that they've had Norris in

917
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: this situation, it becomes super hard to redress that. So

918
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: I guess if I'm going to answer my own question

919
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: here Orlando Norris style like he did in the press conference,

920
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: if he's not at McLaren, then where does he go?

921
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: And we know that he's contracted until twenty twenty eight.

922
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: I don't trust Formula one drive contracts. There are only

923
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 2: a starting point for negotiations, as you know with these things.

924
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: But you think how different the sport could be in

925
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight when he's theoretically out of contract. Bernado

926
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: a lot. So I'll probably still be driving somewhere. But

927
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: as for some of the others, Lewis Hamilton won't be

928
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: driving in twenty twenty eight. I wouldn't have thought Max

929
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: with Stappa might not be driving in twenty twenty eight.

930
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: That seems possible. And given that we don't really know

931
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: where this rule set is going to take us at

932
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: this point, and what happens in the first third of

933
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: next season, maybe the beginning of a trend or just

934
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: a massive outlivee by the time we get to the

935
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 2: end of the twenty four rounds next season, I would

936
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 2: argue that, yeah, he might need to, and that's no

937
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: slight on McLaren or no Dickett, Norris or anything else,

938
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 2: but your point of it's really really hard historically to

939
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: come back and win within the same team when someone

940
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: has beaten you. You look at the car advantage that

941
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: Mercedes had for so much of the start of that

942
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: V six turbo hybrid era. They are in their own

943
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: category for a lot of the time. So just by

944
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 2: being the second driver in that team, you were and

945
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 2: nailed on runner up in the World Championship before the

946
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 2: caesar started, let's be perfectly honest, and so you can

947
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,760
Speaker 2: then benefit off the misfortune. You have to remember Rosberg

948
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: won that title in twenty six primarily because Lewis Hamilton's

949
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: engine blew up in Malaysia and opened the door, and

950
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: it was it was an open goal that he took

951
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: and then promptly retired because he probably didn't think he

952
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: was going to do it again. So does he need

953
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: to leave McLaren to win a World Championship? I would

954
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: suggest yes. Don't ask me where it needs to go,

955
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: because that's something we need to see what happens in

956
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. He's going to have no shortage of

957
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: suitors if he wants to get out. That's the good news,

958
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: because he's of the age profile and he's clearly a

959
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: guy for the future. Where that addresses. I guess we're

960
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 2: going to find out in twenty twenty six. But I

961
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: judging by the look on your face here, which is

962
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: useless at an audio podcast, I realized you may not

963
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 2: be you may not be completely in agreeance here.

964
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: I think. And something I was thinking about the start

965
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: of the year, because it seemed obvious one of these

966
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: drivers is going to end up with the world title,

967
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: is it's not so much the first one, it's the

968
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: second one. I think if Norris wins another title, okay, yeah,

969
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: regardless of the Papaya rules, the orange rules, poor poor rules,

970
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: I think that fundamentally changes the dynamic, especially if it's

971
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: back to back. Rris goes and out out and wins

972
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: the title again next year, even if it's close. I

973
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: think that does change something more than a single world

974
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: title does. Particularly given this single world title was. I mean,

975
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: it's no disrespect to Norris, but it was very closely fought.

976
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: Anyone could have won it. Yep, Norris was the one

977
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: who won it. I think that does change something. And

978
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: the other thing I was thinking about is you're speaking

979
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: well I haven't. I mean, I know Nico Rospect. He's

980
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: the one driver who's beaten his teammate. He's defending title

981
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: teammate to a championship. I don't know how many have

982
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: done it before, or if it's happened before that. I

983
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 1: also don't know how many drivers have left a team

984
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: at which the defending world championships raced and then beaten

985
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: them in another team. So I'm also not sure that

986
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: statistically it makes much difference. Alan Prost I guess because

987
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: then he went to Williams and like I guess, technically,

988
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: but he came by Ferrara, isn't he So that sort

989
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: of I don't know if that counts.

990
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: And also had a season where he sat out to remember.

991
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: Yes exactly, so this sort of you know, maybe we

992
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: can consistically that maybe that's something will wrighte up Fox

993
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: Sports at some point. I don't want to jinx it

994
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: by necessarily saying we'll do it this year. Maybe it's

995
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: something for the end of next year. But I think

996
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: there isn't any interesting question there. But then what's interesting

997
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: about the rules changing next year is we assume that

998
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: regardless of who's going to be in the front, we

999
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: assume McCain's going to be roughly in the mix, even

1000
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: if they may not be a title contender. We kind

1001
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: of assume the sport will look similar like you'll probably

1002
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: have one or two teams that can contend for the title.

1003
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: For all we know, the way these rules are going,

1004
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: we could have a really open field, in which case

1005
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: there are many more options, potentially many more drivers on

1006
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: the market. The sport could just look a lot more different,

1007
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: putting the competitive elements aside. So I think it's a

1008
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: little bit too early to say. And I do also

1009
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: think while contracts are and I love the phrase the

1010
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: starting point for negotiations, when it comes to time to

1011
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: leave Piastre, we shouldn't forget. And it's probably a stute

1012
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: from McLaren was signed up at the start of this

1013
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: year when we didn't think he'd probably be contending for

1014
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: the title this year. So I think that would probably

1015
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: be a more McLaren favored contract than, for example, of

1016
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: a staff in one where it seems like he can

1017
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: just leave whenever he feels like it. Let's begond to

1018
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: a Stappin speaking of him for question number four, we've

1019
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this already. Is this the

1020
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 1: best for staff and we've seen? And as a supplementary

1021
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: question to that, could there be a better for staff

1022
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: and still.

1023
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: Than about the last part? Is it the best we've seen?

1024
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: I mean we said this on a previous episode where

1025
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: we discovered this year quite bizirely that not only is

1026
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: he the best champion in the field, he's also the

1027
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: best underdog simply because of the way he engineered this

1028
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: comeback from absolutely nowhere. Was that one hundred and four

1029
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: points down at one point, which is quite crazy. So

1030
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 2: short answer to a long question, is it the best

1031
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: we've seen? Yes, I mean you think of the absolute

1032
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: turmoil and everything that's been going on there. You know

1033
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: what Red Bull might look like when they turn up

1034
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: in Melbourne for March twenty twenty six. You know, you

1035
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: think in the past twelve months Liam Lawson was Max

1036
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: for Stappenstee twenty twenty five, Australian Rob Prie. Christian Horner

1037
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: is no longer the tea principal. There's stuff that came

1038
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 2: out over the weekend. You know that perhaps helmet Marcos

1039
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: on the way out. They're going to have a new

1040
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: engine pro There's so much change within that organization and

1041
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: he's been the one constant, and so yeah, best we've seen,

1042
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 2: I would say absolutely. Is there another level? I guess

1043
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: it comes down to, does all of that turmoil manifest

1044
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: itself in perhaps a less winning package that even someone

1045
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 2: of his talent and determination in CV is only able

1046
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: to drag so far. They've got to play their part

1047
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: to an extent. Maybe there is another level in there.

1048
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: He surprised me this year with what he was able

1049
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: to do with a car that quite frankly should not

1050
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: have bet in the championship mix. But best we've seen,

1051
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: I'm saying one hundred percent absolutely, I think so.

1052
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: I think as well, without saying that, I think there's

1053
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 1: a better level of Max because it's hard to see

1054
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 1: how he improves on the performance in the second half

1055
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: of this year, and integral to that performance. I think

1056
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: he's always been a leader inside the team, but that

1057
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: leadership role counted for more. Is the sense I get

1058
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 1: in the post Christian Hornet era. Yep, I think we

1059
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: may even in appreciating how great this comeback was, may

1060
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: not have appreciated what that would mean starting with all

1061
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: scores at zero. If Requll Racing has even a ballpark

1062
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: car next to year, like it had a ballpark for

1063
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the second half of this season, that

1064
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: maybe means even a team with a consistent a consistent

1065
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: car that is consistently first or second can't catch him.

1066
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: So I think maybe we're yet to appreciate the level

1067
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: he's found this year, even as we appreciate how good

1068
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: that's been, If that makes sense. On a ram up

1069
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: with a couple of quick fire ones, we've just had

1070
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: the aquadaphy for Nale. I don't think I was alone

1071
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: in not being especially impressed with the performance, or not

1072
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: the performance, rather the result or the excitement on track

1073
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: that we got. Certainly visually spectacular as a location, there's

1074
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: no doubt about that, but I couldn't help but think, Wow,

1075
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: even though the time zone would have been absolutely diabolical

1076
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: for Australia, wouldn't have this been fun in Brazil?

1077
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely? What's the old saying you can put lipstick

1078
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 2: on a pig, but it's still a pig, Michael, It's

1079
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 2: a very expensive and attractive one, but just that turquoise

1080
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 2: color Abu Dhabi just sort of grinds my gears at

1081
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: this point. But maybe that's just watching eleven straight races there,

1082
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: one from the pole position. But look, Interlagos is always

1083
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: a winner, and you're thinking last the championship, but you

1084
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: think two thousand and seven, two and eight, twenty twelve

1085
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 2: or absolute classics. There's something about that particular track and

1086
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 2: the corner profile and the weather and the fans and

1087
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 2: everything about it feels a little bit on the unhinged side,

1088
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: which is how we like Formula One title deciders. But

1089
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 2: other places that could host a finale, I mean, time

1090
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: of year is going to be tricky, but I don't know.

1091
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 2: Austin for the spectacle would be interesting if we get

1092
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: great races there. Yeah, often spread out a bit, but

1093
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 2: it'd be good for the spectacle. And the weather's clearly

1094
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: going to scupper this one. But to imagine if season

1095
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: finale in Baku, oh, like you to my mind, for

1096
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 2: the season finale, you have to has to be at

1097
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: a circuit that's got some peril or a layout that's

1098
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 2: conducive to overtaking, and Abu Dhabi has neither of those things.

1099
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: That's really good goal.

1100
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: If we swapped Bahrain and Abu Dhabi around in the calendar,

1101
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 2: and you open the season with Abudhabi and finished it

1102
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: with Bahrain or Barrains always right at the very front.

1103
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 2: Even Bahrain would be a better option to end this

1104
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: season because there is a layout there that does invite

1105
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: some overtaking points, and we generally have more interesting races

1106
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 2: there than we tend to at Abu Derby. But yeah,

1107
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: to me my mind has to be a circuit with

1108
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: some sort of trip wire in or peril, or at

1109
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 2: least a layout that's conducive to overtaking. And the worst

1110
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 2: part about Abu Dhabi is you know going into the

1111
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 2: race weekend that neither of those things is probably going

1112
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: to happen, and we persist in going back there for

1113
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: should we say commercial rather than racing res Yes?

1114
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: I like that. You do want some jeopardy in the

1115
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: circuit layout, don't you, as much as you want the

1116
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: jeopardy of the potential title decide it because it just

1117
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: adds to it. I think Bahrain is actually probably your

1118
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: most realistic option, Isn't it like that happening one day?

1119
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: Not just WEATHERWI it's just money wise.

1120
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, cool.

1121
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: Look, will you stand the season in Adelaide? Everyone enjoyed that.

1122
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: Obviously that's not on the cards anymore, but I think

1123
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: that was a great that's a great illustration because Adelaide

1124
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: has had atmosphere, didn't it, And that's something that neither

1125
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: Barrain nor Abu Dhabi has or Baku really to be.

1126
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: Honest and inte like ors. That's why that's the correct

1127
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 2: answer to the question, because you know whether it's the

1128
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: last round or the first round or somewhere in between.

1129
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: And Brazil has been all over the calendar in the

1130
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 2: past recent history of Formula One. The fans turn up,

1131
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 2: they show up, they show out, it's an amazing atmosphere.

1132
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 2: You add a title decider in there, it's pretty compelling.

1133
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that would be a good one if

1134
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: someone was willing to pay the money to make that

1135
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: the last race. Finally, let's have a good forward throwing question,

1136
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: considering at the end of the twenty twenty five season,

1137
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: which team most intrigues you for twenty twenty six. Acknowledging

1138
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: we don't know anything about anything next year. Really, we're

1139
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: looking forward to all perhaps not looking forward to if

1140
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: it would be perverse seeing next year.

1141
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: It's actually a really hard question this because you can

1142
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 2: find reasons to place most teams in this category. So

1143
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to go for a team that very very

1144
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 2: rarely gets mentioned on this podcast for anything good. I

1145
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 2: reckon Aston Martin is the team that intrigues me because

1146
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: they just should be so much better than this. And

1147
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: you look at some of the other big automotive brands

1148
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: and names coming into Formula One next year, with Audi

1149
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 2: the rebadge sour and Cadillac coming in. Aston Martin is

1150
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: not a name it should be scrapping to finish seventh

1151
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 2: in the Constructors' Championship, right, So this is the interesting

1152
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: part for me, say the twenty twenty six as to

1153
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: Martin's a good car, right potential for it to be there,

1154
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: the Adrian new fact or so on and so forth,

1155
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: what that does to the driver mask market. There'll be

1156
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: some genuine a lister who will try and shake themselves

1157
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 2: loose to get on board with the early sort of

1158
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,439
Speaker 2: green shoots of growth with that particular team if it's

1159
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: going in the right direction, because you look at their

1160
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 2: drivers right now, Fernando Alonso, for all the will in

1161
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: the world is still you know what, if you're sixth

1162
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 2: on the weekend and just this typically devilish Alonso race,

1163
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 2: he's not the long term solution and lancetroll's never been

1164
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 2: the solution long or short term. Let's be perfectly honest here.

1165
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 2: So we know that the drivers aren't the answer to

1166
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 2: them getting better, but we've not really asked the correct

1167
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 2: question yet because the car has been sort of it's

1168
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 2: been a bit blast so for that Alonso run at

1169
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: the beginning of twenty three or whenever it was. But

1170
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: they intrigue me because if they get it right, what

1171
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: that does for that name being higher up in the

1172
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 2: Formula one standings and what that might do to the

1173
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 2: driver in that someone's going to look at that and say,

1174
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 2: I want to get on board now, because you don't

1175
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 2: want to wait for someone else to get in there

1176
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: and get their feet under the table, and they repull

1177
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 2: the benefits of a potential Aston Martin surge. So a

1178
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: lot of candidates for that question. I do like the

1179
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 2: intrigue questions always a good one at this time of year.

1180
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 2: But I'm going to say Aston Martin and that's definitely

1181
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 2: the most positive thing I've ever said about Aston Martin

1182
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: in several years of this podcast, so I'd be surprised

1183
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: if you went down that road. But which of the

1184
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 2: other ten and I'm going to say ten, because there

1185
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 2: are ten, Which of the other team ten teams intrigues

1186
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: you in this particular question.

1187
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: Ticket used to saying that I like astone because it

1188
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: would also theoretically, considering the resources and infrastructure, expand the

1189
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: pool of what we consider to be the front running team.

1190
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: Absolutely very excited. Ye I'm going to go with another

1191
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: team we very rarely have anything positive to say about Forrari.

1192
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: Very intrigued to see what happens at Ferrari in twenty

1193
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: twenty six for a couple of reasons. One is this

1194
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: year has been so bad it's there's no way to

1195
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,919
Speaker 1: dress it up but fourth, and they locked in fourth

1196
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: in the Constructors Championship early, the only thing they managed

1197
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: to get done earlier this year. And for podiums obviously

1198
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: Alda Charlotte Clair, who was Hamilton's first non podium season

1199
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: of his entire Formula One in his career. But why

1200
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm interested in next year beyond the fact they really

1201
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: need to perform well, there are two factors. One is

1202
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: that they've come up in the last weeks and suddenly said, well,

1203
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, we gave up on this car in April,

1204
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: first time anyone's ever heard of. That sounded a little

1205
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 1: bit disingenuous to me, but that certainly piles on pressure

1206
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: next year because now they're telling us they've been developing

1207
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: next year's car at one hundred percent capacity for months.

1208
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of excuses to not be good.

1209
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: But the other is the Lewis Hamilton story. Not simply

1210
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: the story of whether or not he can get it

1211
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,919
Speaker 1: back together for next year, but some of the things

1212
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: he's been saying in the last couple of rounds appearing

1213
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: to suggest that his suggestions to improve the team, and

1214
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: some people will roll their eyes at that, we shouldn't

1215
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: forget he's been hired because he's a seven time champion

1216
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: and perhaps more to the point, has been with the

1217
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 1: dominant team of the last decade four years. Understands how

1218
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: it works, understands the processes, understands what it takes to

1219
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: win the title. The thing Ferrari clearly does not at

1220
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: this stage that some of those suggestions, or perhaps even

1221
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: all of them, are not really being taken on board.

1222
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: That there's internal pushback, and there's been some reports in

1223
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: the Italian media to a similar effect next year. I

1224
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: wonder if that comes to a head. A lot of

1225
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 1: people are speculated about, you know, does Lewis Hamilton continue

1226
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: going all that kind of thing. I think that question

1227
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: comes to head at the end of next year if

1228
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: actually no one's listened to anything he suggested. They've sort

1229
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: of finished third, fourth, whatever in the championship, not much

1230
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: going for them. Because if that's the case, if he's

1231
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: not having any effect on Ferrari, what's the point of

1232
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: being there Because he's sticked the box of racing for Ferrari. Now,

1233
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: you know, that's great, it's probably good. Grand Company can't

1234
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: but if no one's taking on board the things that

1235
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: he knows it takes to win a championship, then what's

1236
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: the point.

1237
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: Well, and if they're not going to take it on them,

1238
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: why hire him?

1239
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: Exactly?

1240
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 2: Why would you get him in there in the first

1241
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: This is the reason you hire a forty something Lewis Hamilton,

1242
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 2: because he's done the things that you have proven and

1243
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: you have no capability of doing for quite some time.

1244
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 2: This is the reason you get him in in the

1245
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: first place. If it becomes a product of if it's

1246
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 2: a failure of communication or internal politics or anything else,

1247
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,439
Speaker 2: then that's not I'm sorry, but that's not on the driver.

1248
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 2: That's not on the driver at all. And if you're

1249
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: going to go down that path, then just don't hire him,

1250
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 2: just put someone else in there.

1251
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. And I think then that speaks to

1252
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: a really big question about the whole Ferrari project. Project

1253
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: sounds like a silly thing to say for the older

1254
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: Steve before one, but this era of Ferrari, if you like,

1255
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: and maybe that is the vast era, because the questions

1256
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: will be asked if his management, If next year looks

1257
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: no better, I think that there's a lot on the

1258
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: line for Ferrari in a way, and I think I've

1259
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: said this before, in a way, I just didn't expect

1260
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: when Hamilton joined, I did not expect the questions to

1261
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: be existential as they're becoming, or somewhat reputational for Hamilton.

1262
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: I think if even retired the in the next year,

1263
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: having achieved not much with Ferrari a few years later,

1264
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: we would forget about the Ferraris did to just remember

1265
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: his great time. But nonetheless it has an effect so

1266
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot on the line. There can't

1267
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: wrap up without going to the crystal ball by complete filtration.

1268
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: You've got a long period to predict your Matt, What

1269
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: are you think?

1270
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm just going to literally rinse and repeat something you

1271
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: said about fifteen seconds ago in that I think it's

1272
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: going to be an underwhelming season for Errari in twenty

1273
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 2: twenty six, and it will be Lewis Hamilton's final season

1274
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 2: in Formula One, and we'll forget that it ever happened.

1275
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 2: What you said before about them being intriguing and the

1276
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: you know, the intrigue is because there is so much

1277
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: promise and potential there. Well, apparently they've been working on

1278
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 2: this car for the twenty twenty six car. They've been

1279
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 2: working on it for most of twenty twenty five, so

1280
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 2: it should be fantastic, but it probably isn't going to be.

1281
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 2: And yeah, maybe twenty twenty six is Lewis Hamilton's last

1282
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 2: lap in Formula One, and for sake of you know,

1283
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 2: we'll lament it for a short period of time and

1284
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 2: then three months later we'll forget that he ever wore

1285
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: red overalls and weren't all those years in Mercedes fantastic

1286
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 2: and he's the most prolific driver in Formula One history

1287
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,399
Speaker 2: and all of that, because I frankly just don't trust

1288
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: Ferrari to get this right for next year, and I

1289
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: think there'll be other teams that get it more right,

1290
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: and I can see a little bit of a repeat

1291
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five. But Crystal Ball, look like you

1292
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: said you bought to make this one stick because it's

1293
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: going to have staying power because we've got no more

1294
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 2: raising for them until Albert Park in March. But what's

1295
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 2: your crystal ball telling you.

1296
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: My crystal ball is telling me it's very specific prediction,

1297
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: but the international readership of the Austrian newspaper Climbs a

1298
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: Toong is going to decline enormously next year because old

1299
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: Albert Marco is retiring, which means that you probably will

1300
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: still be speaking to the paper with the be far

1301
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: fewer microphone shoved in his face for him to give

1302
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: opinions that the Red Bull company has told him to

1303
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: stop giving. Unfortunately, the rule banning him speaking to the

1304
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: media will no longer reply. But next year he won't

1305
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: be in the paddock. He will be simultaneously voluntarily but

1306
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: also forced into retirement and that also signals quite a

1307
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: big shift for red Bull. It's something we talked about

1308
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: after Christian Horner left, but it's becoming very much the

1309
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: next era of red Bull was I think becoming clear

1310
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: in the second half of this year that his place

1311
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: at the team didn't make as much sense. He no

1312
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: longer holds the reins of the Young Driver program. Though

1313
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: he's influential there, he's a bit of an anachronism at

1314
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: this point. And you know what, he's at retirement age.

1315
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: When you go and enjoy your time at wherever it

1316
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: is he lives in Austria, and soak it.

1317
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: Up well and imagine the soundbites that are going to

1318
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 2: come out of that position when he gets replaced by yours.

1319
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 2: For Stappen, that's another story.

1320
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: No, don't great prediction. That's your official prediction.

1321
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: I'm keeping you to it.

1322
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: But that's all the time we have for pit Talk today.

1323
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to bittalkriv you get your favorite podcasts

1324
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: and you can leave us a rating and review as well.

1325
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: And the Motor Sports season well it's over. Go and

1326
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: enjoy your weekends with your loved ones and avenge Piastri's

1327
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: title lost VI curiously if you like. By watching the ashes,

1328
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: you can keep up to date with the latest one,

1329
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: supercars and BURDERGP news at Fox sports dot com. Tot

1330
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: are you from Matt Clayton and me Michael Lomonato. Thanks

1331
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: very much for your company and we'll catch you next week.