WEBVTT - Dermatology with Dr Leona Yip 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Apoge Production. 0:00:11.121 --> 0:00:14.521 Hi. My name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. 0:00:15.081 --> 0:00:18.921 I'm grateful for the person that I had the opportunity 0:00:18.921 --> 0:00:20.201 to be, so. 0:00:20.241 --> 0:00:23.761 I hit it and parked it for Nelly four years. 0:00:24.201 --> 0:00:26.441 We always have free will, We always get to choose. 0:00:26.521 --> 0:00:28.801 We are autonomous. 0:00:29.081 --> 0:00:32.201 Hi everybody, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness 0:00:32.201 --> 0:00:35.561 for Nurses Today. I have the fabulous doctor Leoni Yip, 0:00:35.561 --> 0:00:40.280 who is a dermatologist here in Brisbane. We have literally 0:00:40.321 --> 0:00:43.160 been pinpals and haven't been able to catch up for 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.120 probably the last six years. I met her through another 0:00:47.641 --> 0:00:50.161 very good friend of mine, Katie, who did it a 0:00:50.281 --> 0:00:54.321 sort of like online introduction as they'd worked together down 0:00:54.361 --> 0:00:58.200 in Melbourne. So thank you for taking the time to 0:00:58.241 --> 0:00:59.241 come and have a chat. 0:00:59.521 --> 0:01:00.401 Thank you for having that. 0:01:00.601 --> 0:01:03.441 Is so lovely to meet you finally after five or 0:01:03.441 --> 0:01:08.321 six years texting social media messages and you've been virtual 0:01:08.401 --> 0:01:10.001 until right now, right now. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:10.961 It's crazy, isn't it. 0:01:11.081 --> 0:01:14.920 Yeah, you moved up from Brisbane from Melbourne. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:15.840 Sorry how long ago? 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.280 Actually we moved from with my ex husband and my children. 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.121 We moved from Melbourne to Canberra for his job that 0:01:23.161 --> 0:01:25.080 didn't really work out. So we were there for five 0:01:25.121 --> 0:01:28.041 to six years, and unfortunately went through a really difficult 0:01:28.041 --> 0:01:31.441 time with how his job turned out, and we ended 0:01:31.521 --> 0:01:34.801 up in Brisbane surrendipitously because there was an offer here 0:01:34.961 --> 0:01:38.041 and I had only ever been to Brisbane once before 0:01:38.081 --> 0:01:41.600 that I knew nothing about Brisbane, and so we took 0:01:41.681 --> 0:01:43.880 the chance and it's worked out quite well. The kids 0:01:43.961 --> 0:01:46.360 love it, and this is now my home. I used 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.721 to be resentful that we had left Melbourne, and I 0:01:48.761 --> 0:01:51.321 think I held onto that resentment when I was in 0:01:51.361 --> 0:01:53.521 Canberra because it took a while to set up my 0:01:53.601 --> 0:01:57.761 network of friends, patients and just to feel like I belonged. 0:01:58.241 --> 0:02:00.521 It was a lot easier to do that in Brisbane. 0:02:01.321 --> 0:02:03.800 And now you know, I still miss Melbourne. It's always 0:02:03.841 --> 0:02:07.241 my spiritual home. I'm not resentful anymore. So Brisbane is 0:02:07.281 --> 0:02:08.401 now the place for me. 0:02:09.001 --> 0:02:11.521 Did you find it easier to make connections and networks 0:02:11.521 --> 0:02:14.041 here in Brisbane or you already knew people up here. 0:02:14.081 --> 0:02:16.441 It was an interesting time because COVID happened. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:21.000 So we moved here in June twenty nineteen, I think, 0:02:21.481 --> 0:02:25.561 and it was re establishing myself in a new city, 0:02:25.921 --> 0:02:29.960 and by that stage I was already out for quite 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:31.761 a few years. So I was a senior dematologist and 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.081 coming to a new city where no one knew me, 0:02:35.161 --> 0:02:40.240 including GPS patients. And there were some quiet, hurtful commands 0:02:40.281 --> 0:02:44.400 being made when I was establishing myself here, like why 0:02:44.401 --> 0:02:47.121 are you so easy to get into? My dematologies has 0:02:47.121 --> 0:02:50.000 always booked up for six months? And you know, writing 0:02:50.081 --> 0:02:53.520 letters back I remember to GPS and then one called 0:02:53.561 --> 0:02:55.600 me and said she didn't like the way I was writing. 0:02:55.281 --> 0:02:56.001 My letters backter. 0:02:56.481 --> 0:02:59.361 I've been writing the letters the way I've had for 0:02:59.441 --> 0:03:02.001 the last few years and had no issues. So just 0:03:02.561 --> 0:03:05.041 teething issues in a new city, people trying to suss 0:03:05.121 --> 0:03:07.800 me out. I'm trying to suss the system out. And yeah, 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.041 it took me a while to find myself. But definitely 0:03:11.321 --> 0:03:14.881 people the Cambarans are great people, don't get me wrong. 0:03:14.921 --> 0:03:17.161 But it's just such a transient city that it was 0:03:17.201 --> 0:03:20.561 hard to establish networks and I felt very lonely, and 0:03:20.721 --> 0:03:23.281 having my second child, Elliott there he was born there, 0:03:23.761 --> 0:03:27.041 I was very much still resentful that we had left 0:03:27.081 --> 0:03:30.841 Melbourne because my networks were there and I felt alone. 0:03:31.081 --> 0:03:33.121 But in Brisbane, the kids were a little bit bigger, 0:03:34.121 --> 0:03:36.161 and I just felt that people were warming. It was 0:03:36.201 --> 0:03:39.881 easier to have that network. And then COVID happened, and 0:03:39.921 --> 0:03:42.841 then COVID happened, and that was how I met you texting. 0:03:42.961 --> 0:03:45.841 Yeah. Yes. It was also very testing. 0:03:45.481 --> 0:03:49.561 Time for us because we had purchased a house and 0:03:49.601 --> 0:03:53.561 with the move it was lack of work and financially 0:03:53.641 --> 0:03:57.361 we had a mortgage to pay, having to homeschool the children. 0:03:57.961 --> 0:03:59.721 It was all incredibly stressful. 0:04:00.201 --> 0:04:02.921 But after that happened, it was good that because in 0:04:02.961 --> 0:04:05.561 my line of work as a dematologist, I do medical 0:04:05.601 --> 0:04:09.001 dermatology and surgical dematology, so we could still do the 0:04:09.041 --> 0:04:14.201 bare minimum to help patients with excimil batsisis or skin cancers. 0:04:14.481 --> 0:04:16.440 So I had that outlet where I could go to 0:04:16.521 --> 0:04:21.241 work and see people and patients coming in who felt lonely, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.361 they were sad with the situation. 0:04:23.961 --> 0:04:27.200 And just having that contact with people really worked. 0:04:27.481 --> 0:04:30.281 It was stressful, we got through it, and I think now, 0:04:30.401 --> 0:04:33.561 few years down the track, I am happy. 0:04:34.081 --> 0:04:36.401 I won't say it's problem free. It never is. 0:04:36.801 --> 0:04:40.440 There's always challenges. I hate to use the word stress, 0:04:40.561 --> 0:04:43.880 but there's always stress that we have to navigate. But yeah, 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:45.481 I think I'm in a good place at. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:51.521 The moment after COVID you set up your own practice 0:04:51.961 --> 0:04:55.081 at West End, which is a bit fabulous, and I 0:04:55.361 --> 0:04:59.841 refer a lot of my patients to you, Yeah, thanks 0:04:59.841 --> 0:05:04.281 about acne and a patire and whatever, and they all 0:05:04.281 --> 0:05:06.921 say what a great face it is and what an 0:05:07.001 --> 0:05:10.880 awesome area. You must be super proud to have done 0:05:10.921 --> 0:05:11.561 that on your own. 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.761 I am incredibly proud of what we have achieved with 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.921 Skin Partners, but I did not do that on my own. 0:05:19.241 --> 0:05:21.521 It always takes a village, and I think the credit 0:05:21.601 --> 0:05:24.200 really goes to the people around me. My ex husband 0:05:24.241 --> 0:05:27.121 who really supported me through, and my children the time 0:05:27.161 --> 0:05:30.601 that I have sacrificed not being with them, not being 0:05:30.601 --> 0:05:34.200 a mom, by being a doctor and essentially a practice owner, 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.601 and my incredible staff. I think without them, there will 0:05:37.681 --> 0:05:40.400 be no Skin Partners. And I think that's me. I 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.041 can't function on my own. I'm the kind of person 0:05:43.081 --> 0:05:45.761 who is quite vulnerable and I always need people around 0:05:45.761 --> 0:05:46.681 me to support me. 0:05:47.201 --> 0:05:49.841 So it is a great space. I'm incredibly proud of that. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.321 I had a great team of architects, interior designer and 0:05:53.481 --> 0:05:56.001 a project manager as well who found me the space, 0:05:56.641 --> 0:05:58.841 and I think a lot of it was just part 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.320 of me liking to be in control, yeah, and being 0:06:02.361 --> 0:06:05.760 a perfectionist, which is not necessarily a good quality. But 0:06:06.281 --> 0:06:08.721 I had in my mind an idea of how I 0:06:08.801 --> 0:06:11.681 want my color scheme to be and the space that 0:06:11.721 --> 0:06:15.200 I wanted, which you know, my brief to the architect was, 0:06:15.241 --> 0:06:17.760 I don't want the space to look medical. I don't 0:06:17.761 --> 0:06:20.041 want it to look sterile. I want patients to open 0:06:20.041 --> 0:06:22.961 the door and immediately feel this sense of calm. So 0:06:23.001 --> 0:06:25.841 I want the color scheme to be stage almost like 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:30.640 the Australian outdoors, and there's a recovery space for laser 0:06:30.721 --> 0:06:33.801 patients they come in, there's music, but it's also not 0:06:34.001 --> 0:06:37.760 a cosmetic spa. So I think dermatology for me should 0:06:37.761 --> 0:06:42.121 be a blend of medicine and also it's creativity and 0:06:42.161 --> 0:06:44.001 its art when it comes to the skin. So I 0:06:44.041 --> 0:06:46.961 think the vision I have for my practice has been 0:06:47.001 --> 0:06:49.601 realized by an amazing group of people. But it's certainly 0:06:49.641 --> 0:06:52.161 not just a solo effort. I can never take that 0:06:52.201 --> 0:06:53.121 credit for myself. 0:06:53.481 --> 0:06:56.080 Leading into COVID, and I mean, I am going to 0:06:56.081 --> 0:07:00.841 ask some personal questions, so tell me anything ask But 0:07:01.121 --> 0:07:06.121 what I'm interested in with the podcast is you're now 0:07:06.161 --> 0:07:10.361 a single mum had a marriage breakdown. Is how you 0:07:10.401 --> 0:07:15.081 look after yourself, how you manage running a business, having staff, 0:07:15.841 --> 0:07:18.201 having two boys and they're at that age where they're 0:07:18.241 --> 0:07:19.720 super busy, lots of sport. 0:07:20.521 --> 0:07:22.801 I'm assuming your family are still in Melbourne. 0:07:23.521 --> 0:07:26.441 My parents live in Malaysia actually, so my ex husband 0:07:26.441 --> 0:07:31.201 and I have no family in Queensland. I do have 0:07:31.241 --> 0:07:35.641 some extended family in Melbourne, thank goodness. My ex husband 0:07:35.641 --> 0:07:39.281 and I are very amicable, which is unusual I know 0:07:39.441 --> 0:07:43.321 for divorced couples. But we essentially separate it because we've 0:07:43.321 --> 0:07:46.361 become very different people and I think that's life, and 0:07:46.881 --> 0:07:49.681 we decided that it was in our best interests and 0:07:49.721 --> 0:07:52.201 for the children to remain good friends, amicable. 0:07:52.241 --> 0:07:53.881 We did not fall out. We still know. 0:07:53.921 --> 0:07:55.801 We talk to each other, We love and we benter 0:07:55.881 --> 0:07:58.841 and that's fantastic. So we support each other through the 0:07:59.041 --> 0:08:02.641 arrangements with the children. It is incredibly hard and I 0:08:02.681 --> 0:08:05.521 can't say I'm still you know, I'm still struggle with 0:08:05.601 --> 0:08:08.961 the balance of it all, and I do think I 0:08:09.001 --> 0:08:12.761 do a lot with trying to be a clinician, trying 0:08:12.801 --> 0:08:14.841 to be a mother, which is another full time job, 0:08:15.401 --> 0:08:19.361 trying to be a business woman, trying to be a friend, 0:08:19.401 --> 0:08:23.881 trying to have me time. But I think being a mom, 0:08:24.321 --> 0:08:27.841 I'm not a great full time mom. I struggle with that. 0:08:28.641 --> 0:08:31.881 I did not like breastfeeding. I struggle with the new 0:08:31.881 --> 0:08:34.081 one face because I felt out of my depth, out 0:08:34.081 --> 0:08:38.121 of control. And now with the separation, when I see 0:08:38.121 --> 0:08:41.041 the children, I feel like I'm enjoying it a lot more. 0:08:41.081 --> 0:08:42.921 I love them to bits. There's nothing I wouldn't do 0:08:43.001 --> 0:08:45.321 for them. But I think I'm a much better part 0:08:45.361 --> 0:08:50.081 time mom because I feel that I can concentrate on them. 0:08:50.321 --> 0:08:52.161 And I have this way of thinking now. And I 0:08:52.161 --> 0:08:54.561 actually read this in a Brene Brown book that I'm 0:08:54.601 --> 0:08:57.001 reading at the moment called Atlas of the Heart. So 0:08:57.081 --> 0:09:00.361 it talks about disappointment and how not to have expectations, 0:09:00.401 --> 0:09:02.121 and this is exactly what I've been doing, so I 0:09:02.161 --> 0:09:04.201 couldn't verbalize it like she did really. 0:09:04.001 --> 0:09:04.601 Well in the book. 0:09:05.041 --> 0:09:06.961 Now, when I have the kids on weekends, on the 0:09:07.041 --> 0:09:10.681 days that I have them, I'll have no expectations of 0:09:10.761 --> 0:09:14.321 doing anything for myself. It's all about them. Then I 0:09:14.361 --> 0:09:17.321 won't be disappointed, I won't be frustrated if I don't 0:09:17.321 --> 0:09:21.641 achieve anything. And that's okay. But when I don't have them. 0:09:21.961 --> 0:09:25.081 That's when I can have expectations of trying to complete 0:09:25.121 --> 0:09:27.521 a talk that I'm doing, or trying to complete a 0:09:27.561 --> 0:09:31.401 media interview, or have meetings or have mere time. So 0:09:31.441 --> 0:09:34.161 I think it's just having that in my mind about 0:09:34.681 --> 0:09:37.641 managing expectations of what I can and cannot do when 0:09:37.641 --> 0:09:40.641 I have the children. Yep, just setting boundaries for myself 0:09:40.721 --> 0:09:43.601 just so I know that thing I should get burnt out. 0:09:43.641 --> 0:09:45.641 I get burnt out, and you know I got so 0:09:45.881 --> 0:09:48.881 burnt out. I think it was two years ago, towards 0:09:48.881 --> 0:09:51.561 the end of the year. I get periods in the 0:09:51.641 --> 0:09:54.361 year when I feel incredibly burnt out, when things get 0:09:54.361 --> 0:09:57.561 really busy in the practice, and you know, life is 0:09:57.561 --> 0:10:01.721 such that we don't live in a little bold Sometimes 0:10:01.761 --> 0:10:04.321 pooh hits the fan, so you know, live. 0:10:04.321 --> 0:10:05.921 Is a Pooh show sometimes. 0:10:06.441 --> 0:10:09.841 So I think for someone like myself, whom I always 0:10:09.881 --> 0:10:13.521 strive to be a perfectionist, I think that's not a 0:10:13.521 --> 0:10:16.521 good thing. And in the last few years, I've embraced 0:10:16.521 --> 0:10:19.161 this concept of the eighty five percent rules. So the 0:10:19.201 --> 0:10:22.561 eighty five percent rule was actually developed for elite sporting 0:10:22.601 --> 0:10:26.121 professionals so that you're not needing to perform at one 0:10:26.201 --> 0:10:29.321 hundred percent capacity, so you don't burn out that you're 0:10:29.321 --> 0:10:31.441 performing at eighty five percent, so there's a bit of 0:10:31.561 --> 0:10:36.121 room for you to have some relaxation, mindset, some fuel, energy, 0:10:36.321 --> 0:10:39.041 some reserve. And I think that's really worked well for me. 0:10:39.561 --> 0:10:42.321 I don't need to give everything one hundred percent. Eighty 0:10:42.321 --> 0:10:46.561 five percent is enough, and that's giving myself permission to fail. 0:10:46.761 --> 0:10:51.881 And that's okay because if you f up, that's okay. 0:10:52.561 --> 0:10:55.241 And if I don't give myself permission for that, that 0:10:55.681 --> 0:10:58.641 is just setting too high a bar. That's unachievable. It 0:10:58.721 --> 0:11:02.441 is unachievable. And yeah, you start beating yourself up, exactly. 0:11:02.481 --> 0:11:05.521 And I used to beat myself up over little things like, oh, 0:11:05.601 --> 0:11:08.321 I've fumbled on stage, I've said that word wrong. I 0:11:08.401 --> 0:11:11.361 rehearsed this sentence a hundred times. And but you know what, 0:11:11.521 --> 0:11:14.721 that's okay because if I make a mistake, nobody else 0:11:14.761 --> 0:11:16.961 is going to judge me. If they want to, it's okay, 0:11:17.281 --> 0:11:18.961 that's fine. Or these days, I listen to lots of 0:11:19.001 --> 0:11:21.241 podcasts and Mel Robbins has got this theory called the 0:11:21.481 --> 0:11:24.881 let them theory, right, let them, it's okay. I can't 0:11:24.921 --> 0:11:27.961 control what they say about me. If they don't like me, 0:11:28.201 --> 0:11:30.841 that's okay, that is okay, that is okay. 0:11:31.121 --> 0:11:32.561 And you know, when I was. 0:11:32.521 --> 0:11:36.561 A junior consultant, I used to take things personally. We 0:11:36.641 --> 0:11:40.681 can't control feedback from people, we can't control what Google 0:11:40.721 --> 0:11:45.321 reviews are, and you know, it's hard to think about, oh, 0:11:45.361 --> 0:11:47.281 why does this person not like me when I tried 0:11:47.321 --> 0:11:50.881 my best for them, but ultimately not everyone's going to 0:11:51.001 --> 0:11:51.241 like me. 0:11:51.801 --> 0:11:54.161 And I've learned to accept that it's okay. 0:11:54.321 --> 0:11:58.961 And see their perception of sometimes, you know, when people 0:11:58.961 --> 0:12:02.721 come into a clinic, their perception of what they want 0:12:02.921 --> 0:12:07.121 and reality actually two separate things. They've done all this 0:12:07.201 --> 0:12:10.761 Google research, They've looked at Instagram, they've looked at Facebook, whatever, 0:12:10.881 --> 0:12:13.641 you know, TikTok, and that's what they think is correct. 0:12:14.001 --> 0:12:17.521 When you actually tell them the truth, they don't like 0:12:17.641 --> 0:12:18.241 hearing it. 0:12:19.121 --> 0:12:20.921 So then they come back and they might put a 0:12:21.001 --> 0:12:24.441 not so nice comment on Google and there's nothing you 0:12:24.481 --> 0:12:26.601 can do. And like my Robin says, you just got 0:12:26.601 --> 0:12:28.321 to let them because they're miserable people. 0:12:28.401 --> 0:12:31.641 Usually yeah, exactly, yeah, you know, and unfortunately there's just 0:12:31.801 --> 0:12:34.201 the way life is hard not to take things personally. 0:12:34.321 --> 0:12:35.801 But I've learned to accept that. 0:12:35.961 --> 0:12:36.321 Okay. 0:12:36.401 --> 0:12:39.161 I will be hurt and I will question why this 0:12:39.281 --> 0:12:41.441 has happened, and if it's something wrong I've done or 0:12:41.441 --> 0:12:44.161 something I can improve on, great, But sometimes. 0:12:43.801 --> 0:12:45.121 It's just people being people. 0:12:45.481 --> 0:12:48.601 They could be unreasonable, unrealistic expectations, or they're just one 0:12:48.641 --> 0:12:50.721 of those people who will never be happy no matter 0:12:50.721 --> 0:12:52.601 how they go, and I just have to accept it. 0:12:52.641 --> 0:12:54.881 And now I've just learned I'm just going to ignore 0:12:54.921 --> 0:12:57.321 the noise around me and just let them it's okay. 0:12:57.481 --> 0:13:00.361 It's easier said than done, though, because that's to tell myself, 0:13:00.681 --> 0:13:03.281 Oh my god, I just I've read some really hurtful 0:13:03.321 --> 0:13:06.321 things that's been said about me by excident. I was 0:13:06.361 --> 0:13:08.441 just googling myself because I was searching for an article 0:13:08.561 --> 0:13:11.041 I've written. I oh, what is this in the Reddit 0:13:11.081 --> 0:13:14.441 forum that's being said about me? They were very hurtful 0:13:14.481 --> 0:13:17.201 comments that I would not say of anyone else. But 0:13:17.321 --> 0:13:19.601 it's you know, I don't participate in forums like that 0:13:19.681 --> 0:13:22.361 because it's just not my style. So I think it's 0:13:22.441 --> 0:13:25.041 very easy to get bogged down by the noise around 0:13:25.121 --> 0:13:27.241 us because we can't control what's on the Internet and 0:13:27.241 --> 0:13:30.121 what's being said. And I think in my practice, what 0:13:30.161 --> 0:13:33.041 I've learned to do is I'm quite happy to see 0:13:33.081 --> 0:13:34.041 people who like me. 0:13:34.001 --> 0:13:35.561 And who would come back. And a lot of my 0:13:35.721 --> 0:13:36.801 work is the word of mouth. 0:13:36.961 --> 0:13:39.241 So a lot of my patients have got family friends, 0:13:39.281 --> 0:13:42.361 people that they word of mouth refer, and that's great. 0:13:42.921 --> 0:13:45.561 I do find it hard when I get people saying, oh, 0:13:45.681 --> 0:13:47.561 I've come to you because I've read a Google review 0:13:47.601 --> 0:13:50.361 about you, or I've seen your stuff on social media, 0:13:51.281 --> 0:13:54.721 And I find that a bit harder because sometimes the 0:13:54.761 --> 0:13:58.921 persona that they see and the expectations they have, as 0:13:59.001 --> 0:14:01.761 you might know, it's very different. They have a lot 0:14:01.841 --> 0:14:06.281 higher expectations, and I'm not necessarily the persona that they 0:14:06.321 --> 0:14:09.281 imagine me to be as a clinician, because. 0:14:09.001 --> 0:14:10.681 It's all virtual. 0:14:11.001 --> 0:14:13.921 Absolutely, so I think you know, in clinic, I like 0:14:13.961 --> 0:14:15.881 the fact that a lot of my patients get along 0:14:15.921 --> 0:14:17.521 with me. I get along with them. If they don't 0:14:17.561 --> 0:14:19.481 like me, they don't come back, and I'm okay with that. 0:14:19.921 --> 0:14:21.841 You're better off seeing someone you like, you can get 0:14:21.841 --> 0:14:24.441 along with and have that rapport, and if you like me, 0:14:24.521 --> 0:14:27.881 you refer other people like minded who are like you, 0:14:28.161 --> 0:14:31.081 who like me, and accept the way that this professional 0:14:31.161 --> 0:14:34.321 relationship is going to work. So I think now I 0:14:34.361 --> 0:14:37.281 just have that mindset and I've just accepted, as I'm 0:14:37.281 --> 0:14:38.321 getting older too. 0:14:38.321 --> 0:14:40.081 That that's just life and it's okay. 0:14:40.121 --> 0:14:43.761 We can't satisfy everyone, and if we want to be happy, 0:14:44.041 --> 0:14:46.641 we just have to ignore the noise around us. 0:14:47.281 --> 0:14:48.561 That is so true. 0:14:48.561 --> 0:14:50.921 And you know what's interesting is I mean, I've my 0:14:51.001 --> 0:14:52.561 business has grown through word of mouth. 0:14:52.881 --> 0:14:53.841 That's perfectly smooth. 0:14:54.321 --> 0:14:57.961 What's interesting is since the TGA rulings and we've taken 0:14:58.001 --> 0:15:01.921 off all the different words, we can say, all the 0:15:01.961 --> 0:15:07.561 before and afters. I had no continue patients since end 0:15:07.601 --> 0:15:12.121 of July last year, before Christmas. Now that's a lot 0:15:12.321 --> 0:15:15.241 for one person. At the end, I was pretty cooked. 0:15:15.281 --> 0:15:18.761 By the end of the year, no one came because 0:15:18.801 --> 0:15:22.361 of social media. They all came through word of mouth. 0:15:22.681 --> 0:15:27.321 And I have to say they are much nicer clients 0:15:27.921 --> 0:15:30.761 because they've been referred by people that are already coming 0:15:30.801 --> 0:15:33.481 to the clinic, that have been attracted to me because 0:15:33.601 --> 0:15:34.481 the type of person and. 0:15:34.401 --> 0:15:36.241 Practitioner I am. 0:15:36.401 --> 0:15:39.921 So you know, it's I think social media to some 0:15:40.001 --> 0:15:41.521 degree initially was amazing. 0:15:41.641 --> 0:15:45.161 I think it is also hard double edged thought. 0:15:45.281 --> 0:15:48.481 Yeah, I use social media for advocacy and education, so 0:15:48.561 --> 0:15:50.641 I don't advertise any of my way and if you 0:15:50.681 --> 0:15:53.041 look at my social media, they are very very few 0:15:53.241 --> 0:15:56.761 before after photos because that's just not me. It's okay 0:15:56.801 --> 0:15:58.281 if someone else wants to do it, but that's just 0:15:58.281 --> 0:16:01.041 not me, because for me, it's about educating. It's about 0:16:01.041 --> 0:16:05.841 having a voice, an educated voice that people can listen 0:16:05.881 --> 0:16:08.681 to and who can lean on and go all right, Okay, 0:16:09.281 --> 0:16:10.321 she's a dermatologist. 0:16:10.881 --> 0:16:12.961 She probably knows what she's doing. 0:16:13.401 --> 0:16:16.441 And I don't necessarily need you to come and see me, 0:16:16.561 --> 0:16:19.841 but just trust that a dermatologist is someone who can 0:16:19.841 --> 0:16:23.801 help you better than someone else who's promoting some product 0:16:24.241 --> 0:16:28.441 because they're getting paid, but has no special, credible expertise 0:16:28.521 --> 0:16:31.161 or experience. So for me, yeah, social media is a 0:16:31.201 --> 0:16:34.001 way to just have a presence to educate and connect 0:16:34.001 --> 0:16:37.321 with people, but I don't use it to get work. 0:16:37.881 --> 0:16:40.721 Did you train in Melbourne or did you train in Malaysia? 0:16:40.801 --> 0:16:41.481 In Melbourne? 0:16:41.481 --> 0:16:44.721 So I did medical school in Auckland and I followed 0:16:44.721 --> 0:16:47.001 my then boyfriend to Wellington for a year and then 0:16:47.041 --> 0:16:48.241 I got a little bit bored. 0:16:48.961 --> 0:16:50.361 Oh I need to be in a bigger city. 0:16:50.401 --> 0:16:52.601 I need a little bit more challenged because I'm constantly 0:16:52.641 --> 0:16:56.281 needing to be stimulated. So I moved to Melbourne, and 0:16:57.561 --> 0:17:00.401 the first few weeks of being Melbourne, I just thought, 0:17:00.521 --> 0:17:02.481 this is going to be my home forever. 0:17:03.241 --> 0:17:05.001 And I love New Zealand. It's great. 0:17:05.121 --> 0:17:07.961 But I also found New Zealand quite insular and the 0:17:07.961 --> 0:17:11.041 more different you are, the more difficult it was for 0:17:11.120 --> 0:17:13.841 people to accept you. But when I was in Melbourne 0:17:14.041 --> 0:17:16.720 is the more different you are, the easier it is, 0:17:16.761 --> 0:17:19.321 and the more interesting you are people who accept you. 0:17:19.441 --> 0:17:22.001 And I loved that concept because I'm a big city girl. 0:17:22.001 --> 0:17:24.960 I grew up in kl And, so I love the 0:17:25.001 --> 0:17:28.641 idea of being different, being with different people, networking. I'm 0:17:28.761 --> 0:17:33.001 very social, I'm an extrod. So Melbourne was my than 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.680 spiritual home and I thought that in New Zealand, I 0:17:36.721 --> 0:17:39.361 had wanted to be a physician, but then I got 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.161 quite burnt out working at the hospital with on calls 0:17:42.201 --> 0:17:43.360 and night shifts. 0:17:43.001 --> 0:17:43.840 And different things. 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.160 And I had a dermatologist mentor who took me on 0:17:48.321 --> 0:17:51.561 because I said, I actually quite liked the idea of dermatology, 0:17:51.801 --> 0:17:53.840 but I didn't know very much about it because in 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.801 medical school you get one or two weeks of lectures 0:17:56.801 --> 0:17:58.521 and all they teach you is a little bit about 0:17:58.521 --> 0:18:02.000 exama a libit of psoriasis. That's it, and you're supposed 0:18:02.041 --> 0:18:03.720 to figure out if you liked it. And then you know, 0:18:03.761 --> 0:18:05.281 as you get older, you just think, you know, it's 0:18:05.321 --> 0:18:07.481 just a career. I need work life balance. I need 0:18:07.521 --> 0:18:10.801 something that interests me, that can sustain my stimulation. And 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.561 because I'm such an extra it, I just like meeting people, 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.960 talking to people. So I thought I'll get dermatology to go. 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.801 So when I was in Melbourne, I also met another 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:24.041 mentor who was Professor Rod Sinclair, who's the alopecia expert, 0:18:24.681 --> 0:18:26.400 and he said to me, I remember our first meeting. 0:18:26.441 --> 0:18:27.840 He's like, oh, I will only take you on if 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.321 you do a PhD with me. And I was young, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.920 and Naima thought, yeah, sure. I didn't beat an eyelid 0:18:33.001 --> 0:18:34.920 and I didn't know what I was getting myself into. 0:18:35.681 --> 0:18:38.640 I was like, oh my god. So I agreed to 0:18:38.681 --> 0:18:39.001 do it. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.561 And it was a genetic study looking at the genetic 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.400 basis of fema pattern helos and all of a sudden 0:18:45.561 --> 0:18:50.161 I was broke and there was uncertainty about my future. 0:18:50.281 --> 0:18:53.720 Why am I doing this for three years not getting 0:18:53.761 --> 0:18:57.360 paid and there's no guarantee I'm going to get into dermatology, 0:18:57.721 --> 0:19:00.281 but I was determined to finish what. Every time I 0:19:00.321 --> 0:19:02.680 start something, I'm de dermined to finish it. 0:19:03.041 --> 0:19:04.200 I'm just that kind of person. 0:19:05.120 --> 0:19:08.840 The first year I called the throwaway year, where none 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:10.041 of the experiments worked. 0:19:10.681 --> 0:19:12.281 I'm a doctor, I'm not a scientist. 0:19:12.321 --> 0:19:15.001 But I was then having to pipet things, having to 0:19:15.041 --> 0:19:18.921 sterilize things, and doing all these experiments like, oh my god, 0:19:18.961 --> 0:19:21.521 this is completely out of my depth. But I was 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.401 very organized because I started writing the first chapter of 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.680 my thesis in my first year, which was basically just 0:19:27.801 --> 0:19:32.480 literature reviews. Was fine to do, and then things fell together. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.041 It was there were a lot of challenges, but luckily 0:19:35.041 --> 0:19:35.961 that all panned out. 0:19:36.001 --> 0:19:37.121 The hard work paid off. 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.160 I got into dermatology the last year of my PhD, 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.880 and then when I started first year of dermatology training 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.721 in Melbourne, I set for the first I think it 0:19:47.761 --> 0:19:50.801 was the pharmacology exams in the first year, and I 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:55.281 submitted my PhD thesis that in the same year, got 0:19:55.321 --> 0:19:58.720 married the same year, and then just yeah, went through that. 0:19:59.201 --> 0:20:01.680 So do you think you got ADHD? Actually, you know 0:20:01.801 --> 0:20:02.761