WEBVTT - #2012 Technology Facilitated Abuse - Nicole Liddell 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:04.480 I get a team, it's harps. It's it's Nicole, not little. 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.479 It's definitely not little, it's Laddell. So don't fuck that up, 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.760 right because she gets very angry. And I did just 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.960 quadruple check that before we went live after knowing her 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:15.800 for twenty years. 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.000 That you know when you you know, when you have 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.760 a thought and you think, maybe, what if I've. 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.880 Been getting someone's pronunciation wrong for twenty years? But I hadn't, 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.600 So that's good. But imagine if your name wasn't Nicole 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:30.680 but rather Nikola or something like that. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.080 No, then it would probably be Nikola. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:41.560 Well, no, it's got an e on the end. 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.800 Nicola little, or it could be let's fuck that off. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:45.960 That's a ridiculous conversation. How are you? 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.240 I'm good, I'm good. How are you? 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.400 I'm good? How's the how's the PhD landscape? Are you? 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.280 Are you coming up for oxygen every now and then? 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.720 Are you drowning in a sea of academia? 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:00.200 You? 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:01.720 Okay? What is the update? 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:03.320 Well? 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.000 Today, because you know it changes, but today and this week, 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.000 I'm at that point where my to do list is 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.720 so long that I'm spending more time writing a to 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.640 do list than I'm actually doing anything, and then you 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:19.920 kind of get halfway through something and then you think, shit, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.560 I've got to do something else, and then you know 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.520 when you just get kind of frozen in that overwhelmed. 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.360 So that's where I'm at this week. But I'm pretty 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.240 sure that tomorrow morning I'll get up and do some 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:37.039 project management and get myself organized again and I'll be 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:37.760 back on track. 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.000 But yeah, that's where it's at the moment. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.440 I have this little ritual every morning which is pursuant 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:45.480 to your comments just then you're on it, which is 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:46.800 and you probably heard me say this. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.400 But I don't say it exactly like this, but it's 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:50.960 a form of this. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.200 In terms of what I want to get done today, 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:55.560 what needs to have my attention, in terms of what 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:57.920 I want to do be create change today, that's my 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.800 little thing. What needs to have my attention, what's the 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:03.560 best use of my time, what's the best use of 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:05.400 my emotional energy, what's the best. 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:06.200 Use of my focus? 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.680 And it kind of yeah, because you can start the 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:14.040 day with twenty different things that you could actually pay 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.440 attention to, and then at the end of the day 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.359 you've done nothing nothing. 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.640 Well, yeah, that's how That's pretty much how the last 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:26.400 couple of weeks have gone. And I'm at that stage 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.520 where there's, you know, five different balls in the air. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.360 So I've got I'm interviewing participants for one study, and 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.840 I'm getting ethics approval for the next study. I've been 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:42.280 asked to be part of the Gender based Violence Task 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.440 Force at the UNI, so I've got to do some 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:49.359 stuff for that, and so yeah, so it's all good, but. 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:49.960 It's a lot. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:51.239 It is. 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.520 Well, let's talk. I mean, we always go what are 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.960 we going to talk about? We just end up chatting. Well, 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.680 let's talk a little bit about efficiency. I feel like, 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.000 you know, we've spoken before on this show about the busy, 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.200 the busy badge. How are you? Oh, what's up busy? 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:08.200 How you going busy? 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.680 How have you been busy? How are things busy? 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.160 It's like it's like a social kind of a trophy, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.519 and we take pride in how busy we are, and 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:26.079 which doesn't necessarily correlate with efficient or productivity or effectiveness. 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:28.880 You know, I think that. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.200 Trying to figure out, like what are my priorities, what 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.640 needs to like, what are the one what's the one, two, three? 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:36.000 Four? 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.800 Things today that really need to be prioritized because it 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.760 is so easy, especially if you are like probably you 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.040 and me, which is you know, you've got work, you've 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.160 got study, you've got a life, you've got training, you've 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.840 got lots of other commitments. We're both in a similar 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.280 position at the moment. I'm just stumbling towards the finished line, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.400 as everyone knows. But but there are just every day 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.120 you could do. I could actually do forty hours of 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.080 work a day if there was forty hours in a 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.040 day and I have the energy, which I do not, 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.240 but I could easily fill forty hours because every night 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.320 when I go to bed, there's still a bunch of stuff, 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.360 not not half done, but there's still stuff to do tomorrow. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.520 And you think even even down to like sometimes this 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.760 is bad, but like sometimes two days will go by 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.600 and I go, I haven't thought about my mum or 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.479 dad for two days. I mean, they're always floating around 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.040 my consciousness, you know. Yeah, I think I'm a fucking 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.520 terrible son, you know. Or there's that thing that like 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.839 I got a new dry dryer wash clothes dry the 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.320 other day when I say the other day four weeks ago, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.600 and I put the old one outside my side door 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.040 next to one of my motorbikes, and I went, I'll 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:52.840 get rid of that in the next couple of days. Well, 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.560 that's still sitting there next to the motorbike, and it 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.159 may have things growing on it very soon, because you 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.680 know when you go, yeah, that's not a good use 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.080 of my time today. That's not a problem. That can 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.880 just sit there, And I really want to make sure 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.880 it's not still sitting there at Christmas as some kind 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:12.520 of ornaments in the garden. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:17.800 But yeah, I think that being prudent. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.159 With our time and our energy based on what we 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.040 need to get done is kind of pretty paramount when 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.719 you're trying to especially do a PhD like you or 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.240 create some kind of outcome, you know, be it in 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:30.440 business or something else. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.760 Yeah, and that's interesting because I've noticed a habit that 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:35.680 I've had and I think I've had it for a 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.039 long time, but I catch myself doing it now and 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.440 I stop myself. Is that when I start to get 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.480 a little bit overwhelmed for some stupid reason, I start 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.000 adding things to the list just to make myself feel worse. 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.800 Like it's like, oh shit, I haven't even washed my 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.239 car for months, but I didn't care that I hadn't 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.839 washed my car, but suddenly that, on top of everything else, 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:03.480 is appriarately And so I don't know why we do that, 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.200 but I managed to catch myself doing that now because 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.839 it's almost like you're deliberately catastrophizing it and making it bigger, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:18.200 almost to justify some level of anxiety. So I catch 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.120 myself doing that now, and I go, do you really 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.880 care that your car's not wash? 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.400 I don't really care about it. Does it really matter 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.600 in the big scheme of things that your cars not clean? 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.039 No? Really, And in terms of in terms of my 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.599 priorities right now, is that going to move the needle 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:43.000 on anything that really? No? So you know, let's make 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.960 sure it's got air in the tiers and petrol. Let's 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:46.960 make sure it's not falling apart. But if it's got 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.240 a bit of dust and dirt and bird poop, it's 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.800 probably probably not going to derail your life. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:53.719 Yeah. 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.800 For those who don't know Nicole, let me do just 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.200 a quick rewind. So we've known each other for a 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:03.040 long time. She lives in the Sunshine State. You live 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:04.960 in the Sunshine State. I don't know why I'm talking 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:09.960 about you in the third person, and that do you 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.880 know what? You probably don't, but that chat that we 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.920 have where you were basically unpacking, where your life was 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.760 falling apart, and you just you ended up starting UNI. 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.840 I don't know what number that was, we might post 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.000 it in the show notes, but where the last thing 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.040 on your mind was really that you would become an academic. 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.400 I think it's like like, and by the way it 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.680 works out, you're really good at academia. You're a really 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.720 good student, you're a really good teacher, you're a really 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:43.800 good researcher. But it was almost fortuitous that you just 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.280 ended up in this space now where at fifty two, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.520 kind a halfway or a bit, I don't know, vaguely 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.560 halfway through your PhD where and you started your undergrad 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.600 degree which became an undergrad and an honors degree. You 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.680 started that when you were forty three and twenty sixteen, 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:05.680 and then you started your PhD. 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.880 Too well, I know, last year in March, so almost 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:11.640 like a year and a half ago, right. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.880 But I love that because so many of our listeners 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.520 are summer in the ballpark of kind of thirty five 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:24.280 to sixty, and it's really nice to hear somebody who's 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:26.920 maybe not shout out to our twenty three year olds. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.840 We love our twenty three year olds, but it's nice 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:34.400 to here somebody who's not twenty three, who's excelling at 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.920 fifty two. And I know you wouldn't bring this up, 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.440 but I'm bringing it up. You just got you just 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.520 did you just win an award or get a grant 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:44.640 or you just got a whole bunch of money that 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.040 you can use to clean your car? 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:47.720 What happened? 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:54.120 Yeah, So my current self is thinking my past self profusely, 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.680 because one afternoon I just kind of sat here and 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.640 looked for external scholarships. 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.199 I came across this scholarship that was opening in July 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.680 this year. This was probably about six or twelve months ago, 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.240 and I put it in my diary to follow up 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.920 when it opened. So it came up in my calendar. 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.280 I had a look at it. I said to my supervisor, 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:19.640 do you think I should apply for this? And she said, yeah, 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.560 you would probably meet the criteria, And so I put 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.480 in the application, not really giving it too much thought, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.440 just hoping something would happen. And it was a ten 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.480 thousand dollars scholarship. I got got the phone call week 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.800 before last to say that I was the lucky recipient. 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:42.200 So wow, congrats, that's amazing. Yeah, how long did you 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:46.920 feel if you did like you didn't really belong in 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.760 academia or like something of a fraud. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.360 Maybe you never felt that, I'm sure you did at 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:53.240 the start. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.000 How long before you felt like, because this is very 0:09:56.040 --> 0:10:00.920 common experience, the people go into like into a new place, 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.119 doing a new thing, they feel unqualified, they feel unworthy, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.960 they feel all of these, you know, fear based emotions. 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.199 How long before I felt. 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.800 Kind of like, I know I can do this and 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.800 I belong here, this is where I'm meant to be. 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:23.400 I once I it kind of has just like it's 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:29.040 the the feeling of competence just gets stronger and stronger. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.200 Likes I as kind of as the evidence starts to 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.080 show up that I'm okay in this space. But I 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.120 think I think I was still imposter syndrome. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:42.880 Well I still do imposter syndrome. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.720 But I think I was still kind of doubting myself, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.280 especially through honors, because that's. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.920 A really that's a tough year. 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.680 But I think once I got into the PhD, like 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:02.120 I got accepted, and you know, the feedback that I 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.160 got was because you know they do when you apply 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.680 for a PhD, they put you in an order of merit, 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.200 and because I worked in the research center for AGES, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.200 I kind of got the feedback that I was quite 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:15.920 high in the order of merit. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:18.800 To be accepted into the pH d. 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.200 Which really just blows me away because the type of 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:28.880 research we do, we're not really big stats heavy, and 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:37.080 stats was never my favorite stuff. But you know, I 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.160 if something comes up and you know, look, I know 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.240 I know where to go to find the answer and 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:42.880 to work it out. 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.400 But yeah, So to answer your question, I think once 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:46.800 I got. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:51.200 Accepted into the PhD, I thought, oh, well, they think 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:56.559 I can do it, so maybe I can. Because that's 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.720 that's not just you know, someone going you know, someone 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.040 that I know giving. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.320 Me a position. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.480 It's based on a whole heap of criteria and in 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.600 an order of merit, and I. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:10.400 Did really well. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.360 So you have to earn your place, and I'd earned 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.000 my place. So I think that was when I really 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:21.600 started to realize that this was something that I could 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:23.400 do well. 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.839 Isn't it funny how we tend to almost value what 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.400 others think of us more than what we we go 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:34.880 do you think I could do this? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.480 I'm like, Oh, I must be able to because Nicole 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:43.600 said I could. Like, you know, it's a really like 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:48.360 and looking for even worse than that, looking general terms 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.080 for approval and acceptance from people who actually don't even 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.120 get a fuck about us, rather than rather than approval 0:12:56.160 --> 0:13:01.520 from ourselves. You know, I'm so good at not approving 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.880 of me. I'm so good even now. But I have 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.640 awareness around it, so I recognize what's going on. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.880 Yeah, do you think that you and I were talking? 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.520 Sorry interrupt, but you and I were talking about Oh, 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:15.439 let's talk about that. 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.880 Why do you think that is? Why do we pay 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.560 attention to what other thinks of us more than we do? Like? 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.960 Why do we need approval from maybe people who don't 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:29.280 know us and sometimes people who like may not maybe 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.720 don't hate us, but don't really care about us. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.040 But nonetheless we value that Well, I don't know. 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.719 I think there's there. 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.200 It'll be a combination of a heap of things and 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:44.920 personal experience as well. I think there is definitely a 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.439 healthy amount of self doubt that we have to have, 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.360 like I because I think if we were if we 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.760 thought that we knew it all, then there's nothing to 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.240 learn and we're just obnoxious and hard to be around. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.760 So okay, I hit the brakes. Does it have to 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.480 be self doubt or can it just be self awareness? 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.480 I don't know, awareness, yeah, or a level of. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.679 I want to say humility, But it's like that. One 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.160 of my favorite theories is the Dunning Krueger effect. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:18.400 You know that when you're an expert, but you're not an. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.240 Expert because you don't know enough about the subject to 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:22.440 know that you don't know enough. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.480 Oh you know, this is what I get from people. Right, 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.520 I'm not an expert at anything, but you know, if 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.720 I do know a lot about anything, it's about exercise programming, right, 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.520 And people when people who don't know shit about exercise 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:41.280 come and tell me stuff, and that sounds very arrogant. 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:42.000 I don't mean. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.360 They don't know how little they know and they're talking. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.480 They're talking to someone with four decades of experience, owning gyms, 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:56.360 working in gym's writing programs, working with elite athletes, and 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.280 then they start to tell me about this thing that 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.120 they don't even understand themselves. 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:02.160 And I don't want to. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.240 Shoot them to bits, but it's it's a really observ 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.200 I'm sure I've done that the other way around to 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:08.600 other people who know more than me. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:10.920 Yeah, I think we've all been there. 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.080 But yeah, that's I think when you have that awareness 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.800 that you don't like I think that's a valuable thing 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.240 to have. Like, the more I learned, the more I 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:30.240 realized how much I don't know. So yeah, so why 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.720 do we? So your question was why do we do that? 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.960 I think part of it is nobody wants to be 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:44.440 the know it all either, Like, so for me personally, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:46.880 I feel like, and I think a lot of people 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.880 can relate to this is I probably was aware somewhere 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:52.200 in my. 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:57.720 Past that I was pretty clever. Yeah, but maybe being 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.240 pretty clever didn't really get me be. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.320 Liked or friends or loved or appreciated or people would 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.440 you know? So, I think I had a fear when 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:15.080 I was younger of coming across as a bit overconfident, right, So, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:17.080 because nobody. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.720 Like, so you learn to play small? 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.520 Yeah, I learned to play small And I think I 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.440 did that. And I know I'm not the only I 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.680 know that's not a unique thing. 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.080 But there's something, there's a there's a sweet spot of. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:41.080 Confidence that that isn't arrogance. There's a sweet spot where 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.920 you can, like I now know that I've earned my 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.000 place at the table, but I don't have to There's 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.040 no badge that goes along with it. There's just this 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.280 this quiet confidence you know that I can bring something 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.360 to a conversation or whatever. 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:02.640 But I was afraid to have that before. 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.280 I don't know, And maybe it's because I don't look 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.840 for the external validation as much as I used to. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:15.560 Yeah, I think that for me, a bit of insecurity, 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.160 a bit of self doubt, a bit of imposter syndrome 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:23.800 keeps me inspired and motivated. Like it keeps me hungry, 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.480 It keeps me wanting to get better and do better. 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.520 And I know that sounds cliche, but it actually does. Yeah, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.520 I would feel weird if I thought I'm there now 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:37.400 like I'm good. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.840 Yeah, I'm the smartest in the room. I'm this, you know. 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:43.919 But you know, while you. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.760 Can simultaneously no, look, I'm pretty good at that. I've 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.159 got some skills that that that's not arrogance, that's just 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.359 awareness because as you said, there's evidence. 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.720 There's data. It's like that whole which I've said before 0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:58.280 on this show. 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.080 You know where I can go you know, like I'm 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.359 coming to Queensland this week, so Thursday night I'm doing 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:08.000 a workshop. Saturday, I'm doing a corporate gig. And you know, 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.639 when I stand up to do the corporate gig or 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.119 even the public workshop, I don't know what that will be, 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.000 but probably somewhere in the thousands of times that I've 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:20.480 done a version of that and without any doubt, there 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.920 will still be some fear, some anxiety, some underlying whispering 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.640 voice that goes, well, this could be. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.560 The time that you absolutely fuck it all up. 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.960 And you know, there's that fearful self doubt or that 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.880 fear driven kind of in a dialogue that's some kind 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.919 in some ways destructive and self sabotaging, while also knowing 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.919 so that's the emotion, but also knowing intellectually, well, I 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.439 must be pretty good at this because people pay to 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.679 come and they've come before, and or I get booked 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:58.119 and rebooked by the same organizations. So these two things, 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.280 like the intellectual understanding that I'm not shit, can coexist 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.199 with the feeling ah, I am shit, you know, like 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.199 the one doesn't have to disappear. 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.280 So I don't know, I think maybe you're right. 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.400 A little bit of self doubt is or a little 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.080 bit of insecurity or I think as long as it's 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:23.920 not fucking crippling or overwhelming, yeah, maybe it keeps us grounded. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:25.399 Well. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.720 A classic example is next month, I'm going to the 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:34.640 Gold Coast to a conference which is it's a stoptimistic 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.360 violence conference, So it's the it'll be like, the audience 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:45.680 will be the DV sector, And my research is it's a. 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.320 Novel approach to the problem. 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.800 So I'm introducing systems thinking in an area that it's 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:56.040 not really been introduced before, and I'm talking to practitioners 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.800 that are on the ground, and I'm talking about a 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.359 topic that every single person in that room will be 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.920 extremely passionate and emotionally. 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:08.560 Tied to in some way. 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.560 And I've not been on the ground in the same 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:17.600 capacity as they have. So I'm very nervous about I 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:18.840 would say nervous. 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.040 But I'm very mindful of not coming in. 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.080 And going I've got the solution with this systems thinking 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:29.600 and really kind of understanding the complexity of the problem 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:31.880 from a because I'm going to be a room full 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.600 of practitioners basically yes, And so I am just quietly 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.200 shitting myself because I want to make sure that I, 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:43.680 you know, introduce this in a way that is sensitive 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.560 to their experiences as practitioners dealing with some pretty heavy 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.320 and complex issues. So yeah, it's that it's I have 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.119 the confidence in knowing that what I bring to the table, 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.400 you know, might be useful or it might open up 0:20:58.440 --> 0:20:59.919 some conversation. 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:02.520 But I also want to make sure that. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:06.040 I am respectful in the way and conscious in the 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:07.840 way that I deliver it, so that I'm not coming 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.280 and going I've got all the answers to this really 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.000 really complex problem. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.240 So yeah, that's going to be well. 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.600 I think your safety net is your research and your 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.960 results and your data. It's like, that's not an opinion, 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.840 that's results. That's what That's not what you think, that's 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.600 what the research tells us or your research tells us. 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:33.680 So being able to present science, you know, that's kind 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.719 of you're not getting up there thinking saying, I'm not 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.840 sure about all this, but let me tell you what 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.919 I think, or let me tell you my experiences or 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:46.600 my opinions. So this is a good opportunity for us 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:50.399 to learn a little bit about your research. So just 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.359 give us a like an aerial overview of what it is, 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.920 what's the what are you exploring? 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:58.200 And then let us go from there. 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:01.200 So we are. 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.080 So I'll tell you a little bit about what systems 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:08.680