1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,640
Speaker 1: Doctor Alex Kofeman, Welcome back to the You Project, my friend.

2
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,040
Speaker 2: It's great to see you again.

3
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,760
Speaker 1: Look at you, mate, you look like you look very

4
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: relaxed there. Tell everyone what you're wearing. It's like you've

5
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,760
Speaker 1: got a hoodie with no sleeves. Is that right?

6
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:16,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of a brisbee thing. I guess. I

7
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:18,439
Speaker 2: feel a little bit chilly in the morning, but my

8
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 2: arms are free. I like it.

9
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: I just feel comfortable. Your arms are way too big

10
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,799
Speaker 1: for a neurosurgeon. I don't know that they need to

11
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 1: be that big to hold a scalpel.

12
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,360
Speaker 2: Now, I know that you're joking if you're telling me

13
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 2: that my arms are too big coming from you, yeah,

14
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 2: I'm not a surgeon. I like my arms. I like

15
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 2: my arms and my legs free, like shorts, and this

16
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 2: type of thing for me is the perfect outfit. That's

17
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,720
Speaker 2: why I like scrubs. They stop halfway down the arm.

18
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,480
Speaker 2: They're super comfortable. I wear scrubs consulting now in the room,

19
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 2: not in theater, but just seeing patients in the room

20
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 2: as so comfortable. It's like wearing yoga yoga gear. I

21
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 2: reckon and I asked the patience, what would you prefer

22
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 2: me in a suit and a tie or scrubs, and

23
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 2: I would say, like set ninety percent of people say scrubs,

24
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 2: I look like who I say, I am?

25
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 1: Well, thank god for that. Having to put on a

26
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 1: bloody suit all the time to have a conversation seems

27
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,320
Speaker 1: like an unnecessary pain that nobody needs.

28
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,000
Speaker 2: No, that's so uncomfortable?

29
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 1: Is there much too? Like? And I know it varies wildly,

30
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:29,320
Speaker 1: but how many hours is a long surgery? Like not extreme, ridiculous,

31
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,120
Speaker 1: over the top rare, but what's just like a typical

32
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: long ish surgery? How many hours? Now?

33
00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,240
Speaker 2: I would say, I reckon two hours would be long

34
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 2: for me, rise of minor. Yeah, two hours. When I

35
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 2: was training, the longest I did was eighteen but that

36
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: was unusual. That depends on the surgeon and the case

37
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,520
Speaker 2: and how quick they are and how complex it is.

38
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 2: But I have stood in theater eighteen hours during a case.

39
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 2: I've done one myself that took I think twelve or

40
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 2: fifteen hours, where that was just me doing it. But

41
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 2: they're the outliers. So for me now, in private practice,

42
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,240
Speaker 2: a typical spine case might take half an hour forty

43
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 2: five minutes. A brain tumor might take about an hour

44
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,919
Speaker 2: to two hours. But this is for me, is the

45
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 2: art form. For me, that's the bit I like about

46
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 2: surgery is the is the efficiency Like for me, efficiency

47
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 2: is part of the process. Like that is the bit

48
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:34,080
Speaker 2: I actually really enjoy and the thing that will spark

49
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 2: me off or make me unhappy or grumpy or whatever

50
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,640
Speaker 2: you might want it is when that process breaks down

51
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 2: and then there's inefficiency or there's new variables being introduced

52
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 2: into the theater. So I just love so I have.

53
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,680
Speaker 2: There's a couple of anethetists I have that are just

54
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 2: the same. They're just super quick, the turnovers super fast.

55
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,799
Speaker 2: And then there's a scrub team I have that you're

56
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,960
Speaker 2: just super slick and it's just beautiful. I love it

57
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 2: when everything just moves without any fat on That for

58
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 2: me is that's the most enjoyable part of it.

59
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 1: Do you reckon that and correct me if I get

60
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 1: anything wrong. This is just my perception from the outside

61
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 1: looking in that some surgeons can be perceived as being

62
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 1: grumpy because there's such high stakes and you, I guess

63
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 1: almost have to be a perfectionist of sorts, and so

64
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 1: you want everything to be absolutely streamlined, perfect efficient, you know,

65
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,120
Speaker 1: as you said, no fat, and when that boat gets

66
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:40,320
Speaker 1: rocked a little bit, the emotional response might be disproportionate.

67
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 2: That's actually exactly it. So I worked with a guy

68
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 2: down in Hobart who I would say had the worst

69
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 2: case of white line fever. I have ever seen reasonably

70
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 2: nice on the ward that he walked into theater and

71
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 2: it was just like it was just something else. I mean,

72
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,320
Speaker 2: there were times when I thought that the CEE the

73
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 2: hospital was going to come down and step in and

74
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 2: tell him to leave. You know, it was just it

75
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,120
Speaker 2: was just it was extraordinary. And I don't condone that

76
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 2: sort of behavior, but I have started to understand where

77
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,480
Speaker 2: that behavior came from, and it was it's when someone

78
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,839
Speaker 2: threatened to introduce a new variable. So for him, surgery

79
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,919
Speaker 2: was all about eliminating variables, eliminating the unknown, and he

80
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,679
Speaker 2: did that very well. And whenever someone came into theater

81
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,119
Speaker 2: and maybe gave him a different instrument or did something

82
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,720
Speaker 2: slightly different to him, that was a threat of the unknown,

83
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 2: and then the unknown leads to problems and complications and

84
00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 2: issues further down the track. I had a personal example myself.

85
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 2: It was a spine operation. There was a certain mallet

86
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,560
Speaker 2: that I was used to, and I put my hand

87
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 2: out without looking, and then something landed in my hand

88
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,919
Speaker 2: that I wasn't expecting. It wasn't the same weight, it

89
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,479
Speaker 2: wasn't the same size. It was just immediately different. I

90
00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,680
Speaker 2: think it was smaller. And I went to go and tap,

91
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 2: and then the reps just sort of joke, do you'll

92
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 2: have to hit it a bit harder with that small one?

93
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,480
Speaker 2: And I looked up and I don't normally yell in theater.

94
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 2: Actually I didn't yell, but I just I was very

95
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,640
Speaker 2: cross and made it very clear that that was not

96
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,719
Speaker 2: funny and not ideal, and I sort of was appreciating

97
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 2: what the guy in Hobut was doing. Is like they

98
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,680
Speaker 2: tried to introduce another variable. They don't understand the consequences

99
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 2: of something going wrong. So yeah, the one I think

100
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:28,280
Speaker 2: that's the one thing.

101
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 1: The one thing I don't want my surgeon to be

102
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,359
Speaker 1: is grumpy or distracted or frust like. I want my

103
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,720
Speaker 1: surgeon to be calm as fuck. I want my surgeon

104
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 1: to be in flow and happy and in his or

105
00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,800
Speaker 1: her kind of little space where they just perform optimally.

106
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,799
Speaker 1: I don't want people handing them shit that they don't.

107
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 2: Want yeah, but there's an attitude, right, so you can

108
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 2: take you can take a number of blows like it's

109
00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 2: like it's like a like a fighter. They could take

110
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,600
Speaker 2: a few puns and still perform at their maximum. But

111
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,360
Speaker 2: this is like that Swiss cheese model, like a little

112
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 2: thing lines up with a little thing, which lines up

113
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 2: with a little thing, and then you start to get

114
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,159
Speaker 2: bigger problems further down the track. So it's like nipping

115
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 2: these small things in the bud right at the beginning.

116
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,159
Speaker 2: That's what I do. The flows. But the flow start

117
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,920
Speaker 2: you talk about is just incredible. You know, forty five

118
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,600
Speaker 2: minutes can seem like five minutes. It's the most incredible feeling.

119
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 2: Everything flows, you know, the scrub nurse just seems to

120
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 2: know what you want to put out my hand and

121
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 2: ask for it, you know, five seconds before I need it.

122
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,200
Speaker 2: And then the changeover is like an F one pit

123
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 2: stop and everything. And starting an operation sometimes you just

124
00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,279
Speaker 2: know that this is going to be a super sick operation.

125
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,839
Speaker 2: There's something about the tissues, the way it looks under

126
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,560
Speaker 2: the microscope, the way people are feeling. You just know

127
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,719
Speaker 2: that this is going to be one of those great operations.

128
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,640
Speaker 1: I did a podcast yesterday with doctor Denise Faness, who's

129
00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: a geneticist from Queensland and also a blow who you

130
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,839
Speaker 1: might have heard of from your also your home state,

131
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 1: called Trevor Hendy and I was on I was on

132
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,520
Speaker 1: their show. I don't know if you've seen trev lately

133
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 1: or no, but he's the full on He's awesome by

134
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 1: the way, He's just like a big fucking six four

135
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,400
Speaker 1: love bunny. Anyway, we were talking about we're talking about

136
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 1: this getting in a state of flow. And I know,

137
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: for me, if I've got to go and do my

138
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 1: equivalent of an operation, which is to say, be in

139
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,120
Speaker 1: front of a big audience for say three to four

140
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,920
Speaker 1: hours where it's just me, like I'm there's no other speakers,

141
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 1: there's no MC it's just the Craig Show for say

142
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 1: four hours nine to one, and I've got to, you know,

143
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,160
Speaker 1: hopefully create this experience and this outcome. It really matters

144
00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,960
Speaker 1: what I do before nine o'clock, Like it matters. It

145
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 1: makes a you know, I can just rock up and

146
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 1: do my thing. And because I've done it so many times,

147
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 1: I can rock up and I can just rely on

148
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 1: skill and repetition and experience and runs on the board

149
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,960
Speaker 1: and I'll create a reasonably good outcome. But when I

150
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 1: get my I don't know if this sounds like fucking

151
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 1: mumbo jumbo to you and relating it to what you do,

152
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 1: but I know that when I take five to fifteen

153
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 1: minutes to get myself into a state I can't really describe,

154
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 1: that's like almost this this sounds bullshitty, but transcendent, like

155
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,360
Speaker 1: get out of my own bullshit. Just get out of

156
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 1: my own you know, cognitive mayhem, and just get into

157
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,440
Speaker 1: this state of calm with really good intentions where I

158
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 1: just want to do good things for good people and

159
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 1: basically almost be a conduit where all this great stuff

160
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 1: can happen through me. That sometimes, like you were talking

161
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,680
Speaker 1: about the flow state, sometimes at four hours is like

162
00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 1: sixteen minutes. Do you have any ritual or preparation that

163
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 1: you need to do mentally or emotionally or you just

164
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,920
Speaker 1: rock up and scrub up or something else.

165
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,080
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. When I was training, I

166
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,800
Speaker 2: had something where I would training is like a baptism

167
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 2: of fire. You're thrust into many sort of unfamiliar situations,

168
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 2: which is why you're training. You're learning to do stuff.

169
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 2: And I used to put the scrub and put my

170
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,959
Speaker 2: scrubs on and just stand there my eyes closed, hold

171
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 2: my hands spread out so there was like my fingers

172
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 2: were as far apart as possible. Relax my shoulders. That

173
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 2: was a big thing, because the shoulder tension is a

174
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,160
Speaker 2: big problem. Relax the shoulders, elbows by the sides, close

175
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 2: my eyes and then just breathe deep and slow, and

176
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,679
Speaker 2: I try to get to twenty. And I really liked

177
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 2: that because it calmed me down, but also it made

178
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,440
Speaker 2: me ignore the fear of somebody else walking into the

179
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 2: theater and seeing me do this would look really, really weird.

180
00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 2: So if I just if I it just meant to

181
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 2: ignore them, relax my shoulders, stretch out my hands and

182
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,839
Speaker 2: breathe deep, and do that. Just thinking about just doing that,

183
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 2: there was something really powerful about that. Every time I

184
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,720
Speaker 2: did that, I opened up my eyes and I just

185
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 2: felt like I was a robot. I was just become

186
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,400
Speaker 2: I was just felt in control. I walked up those stairs.

187
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 2: Everything was slow and deliberate, and I had a really

188
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,360
Speaker 2: good session in theater. Every single time. That always worked.

189
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 2: And now it's just a matter of getting up in times.

190
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,839
Speaker 2: I'm not running late. So if I've tried to work.

191
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,440
Speaker 2: I drive up to work without it to rush. Then

192
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 2: that puts me in a good spot.

193
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 1: Like one of my observations from working with elite athletes

194
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: and I know that you are a pretty good athlete

195
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,559
Speaker 1: in your day as well, but working with elite footballers

196
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: AFL teams and National Netball League teams and a bunch

197
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 1: of Olympians, but mainly in the team space where players

198
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,760
Speaker 1: would be in the change room kind of talk and shit,

199
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,200
Speaker 1: and sometimes I would be in the change room, you know,

200
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,560
Speaker 1: the or the you know the wherever they are before

201
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,920
Speaker 1: they run out onto the court or ground or field,

202
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 1: and I would look at some of my athletes and think, man,

203
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 1: there they're going to go no good today, Like they

204
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 1: they're not their heads not in the right place, they're

205
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,720
Speaker 1: not focused, they're not angry enough, or they're not you know,

206
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,800
Speaker 1: serious or something. And then most times I was wrong

207
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 1: because they would cross that metaphoric or literal white line

208
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,840
Speaker 1: and that they would just switch on. And I saw

209
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,960
Speaker 1: this a lot with I work with a netball team

210
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,479
Speaker 1: called the Melbourne Vixens, who obviously are still in the

211
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,400
Speaker 1: National League, and that some of the girls were just

212
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,000
Speaker 1: all the women I should say were just so fucking

213
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,560
Speaker 1: incredible that they would be just so laid back and

214
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,040
Speaker 1: then step into the operating theater or their version of

215
00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,839
Speaker 1: the operating theater and like complete tunnel vision focus. Don't

216
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,240
Speaker 1: fuck with me, get but it was like a switch.

217
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,080
Speaker 1: It was like a switch, you know, to be able

218
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,960
Speaker 1: to step out of that and into something else instantly.

219
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 2: I have that under the microscope. Everything leading up to

220
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,679
Speaker 2: the microscope can be highly variable variable. There are levels

221
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,080
Speaker 2: of agitation depending on how efficient things are going. But

222
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,280
Speaker 2: as soon as the microscope is willed into place and

223
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,600
Speaker 2: I'm looking down at that is definitely a big switch

224
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,640
Speaker 2: for me. That's a happy place. It's my own world.

225
00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm just in my own space and

226
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,440
Speaker 2: everything on the outside is completely gone. So that's my

227
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 2: white line is when microscope gets willed into place. There's

228
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 2: something about that where I just feel in complete control,

229
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,800
Speaker 2: know what needs to be done, and I'm laser focused.

230
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,960
Speaker 2: So I think that's my version of running onto the field.

231
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess when your eyes are pressed up

232
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,960
Speaker 1: against a microscope, you don't see anything at all except

233
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,200
Speaker 1: what you're meant to see, Like there's no peripheral anything,

234
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: there's no distraction.

235
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 2: There's no total immersion.

236
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, well, and then you go from all

237
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,480
Speaker 1: of those distractions to zero distractions when you press your

238
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 1: eyes up against that thing.

239
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only thing that can distract me is if

240
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,680
Speaker 2: your niece that is talking too much. And I've occasionally

241
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:25,720
Speaker 2: told them to be quiet.

242
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,360
Speaker 1: Oh really, do you do you? I think I've asked

243
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,360
Speaker 1: you this before. I can't remember the answer. Do you

244
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 1: do you ever have any music or anything going or No?

245
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,080
Speaker 2: No, definitely not nor that if anyone's got any extra

246
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 2: sounds going on, it gets killed straight away. There was

247
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,480
Speaker 2: a guy in Sydney I trained with incredible Cerabo Vaski,

248
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 2: so he operated on blood vessels in the brain. He'd

249
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 2: have Bob Dylan playing all day, old school Bob Dylan, scratchy,

250
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,200
Speaker 2: sort of high pitched sort of and it was loud,

251
00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 2: like you couldn't hear yourself think. And that was and

252
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,199
Speaker 2: he was doing all this complex, delicate blood vessel surgery.

253
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 2: And I couldn't even just be in the theater and

254
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,160
Speaker 2: watch him. I don't know how he was concentrating, but

255
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 2: that was and without that he wasn't in his own

256
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 2: I can't do noise.

257
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the I mean that speaking of kind

258
00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 1: of you know, individual variability, and like the thing that

259
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,160
Speaker 1: would distract you puts him in the opposite state. Like

260
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 1: the thing that you would find a distraction and a

261
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,520
Speaker 1: bother for him would be the thing that sharpens his

262
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 1: focus and attention and perhaps puts him in that state

263
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 1: of flow where he can perform at his best. So

264
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 1: the same stimulus would make you worse than him better,

265
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:43,479
Speaker 1: isn't that fascinating?

266
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? And man it was loud. I went there for

267
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 2: a day to watch him for a couple of things,

268
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 2: and I just got a headache just being in the

269
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 2: theater listening to All Along the Watchtower for the third time.

270
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 1: The tambourine.

271
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 2: Man, oh god, nightmares of it.

272
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 1: Hey, so one of the one of the things that

273
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 1: you started doing, which I fucking love. Hey everyone, if

274
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 1: you don't follow Alex, and I'm guessing you don't, because

275
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 1: he's got about seven followers, which is fucking tragic. So

276
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,600
Speaker 1: help a brother out, would you? So, Doctor d R

277
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: Alex Kaufman, let me give you. So it's just Dr

278
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,800
Speaker 1: Alex A l e x ko e f m A

279
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,480
Speaker 1: N Man, Doctor Alex Kaufeman. Go follow him on Instagram

280
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 1: for God's sake, and not only because we want to

281
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 1: pump up his rapidly depleting self esteem and give his

282
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,560
Speaker 1: ego a stroke, but because the shit that he's putting

283
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 1: up is world class and he's yet to be discovered

284
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 1: in this space, and I want people to find out

285
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 1: about him. And so I have a watch like he's

286
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 1: putting up these shorts, fascinating videos about mostly about the brain,

287
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: but but what the brain does and consciousness, and you know,

288
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 1: I just love it. And I'm not saying that because

289
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm just sitting with him right now, but yeah, fascinating stuff.

290
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,480
Speaker 1: So what has that been fun for you? Because that's like,

291
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,640
Speaker 1: it's a creative process, but it's also I mean, there

292
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 1: needs to be a fair bit of thought and planning

293
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: and execution and a bit of editing and a bit

294
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 1: of like what font will I use for this? Have

295
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 1: you enjoyed doing something that is quite a departure from surgery? Surgery?

296
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 2: Man, I've loved it. This has been such an enjoyable process.

297
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,840
Speaker 2: I love everything about it. I love the idea, generating

298
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,160
Speaker 2: the idea. My favorite bit is probably the writing. The

299
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 2: writing it. I would happily spend hours just trying to

300
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 2: fit an idea into sixty seconds. I love it, that

301
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 2: idea of distillation. Yeah, mainly because I did that when

302
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,640
Speaker 2: I was training in neurosurgery, taking all of neurosurgery and

303
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 2: try to distill it down into the middle concepts. That's

304
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,679
Speaker 2: how I understood and learnched neurosurgery. That whole process of

305
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 2: distillation for me is that's that's the greatest experience for me.

306
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 2: And so this is a similar process. I have sixty

307
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,240
Speaker 2: seconds which goes by in a flash to communicate an idea,

308
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,880
Speaker 2: and so I just love the challenge of writing those

309
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 2: words as think, as possible, as precise, concise, that is

310
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 2: just so it's so much fun. And then the shootings.

311
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,280
Speaker 2: Shooting has been learning a process, and the editing has

312
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 2: been a learning process. And then it's been fun just

313
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 2: interacting with people. Was they sort of bounce stuff back

314
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 2: at me when they after they watch it. That's kind

315
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,159
Speaker 2: of fun. But the writing process, by far is the

316
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:42,880
Speaker 2: most enjoyable.

317
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 1: I mean that, I guess one of the challenges is

318
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 1: for you and for me with my research, like very

319
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 1: different areas of course, well kind of intersex, like the brain, thinking,

320
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,959
Speaker 1: the mind, it's called in the same region kind of

321
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 1: but like trying to take what can be very complicated

322
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: information or ideas and then disseminate them in a way

323
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: that's not only understandable to those of us who are

324
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 1: not neurosurgeons or brain scientists, but also in a way

325
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,879
Speaker 1: that's maybe a bit funny and captivating that makes me

326
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 1: want to go watch another video or send the video

327
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 1: to someone else to go watch this Like that is

328
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,679
Speaker 1: a that is a skill to go how do I

329
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 1: share science in a way where it doesn't feel like

330
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 1: I'm sharing science to the listener or to the viewer. Yeah.

331
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,879
Speaker 2: I find that a challenging process because I you know this,

332
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 2: I've tried something similar many times previously, and the biggest

333
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 2: hurdle for me is I don't I just didn't really

334
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,399
Speaker 2: know what my voice was or who I was in

335
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 2: a presentation sort of format. And I like how Jerry

336
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 2: Sign describes it, and he says it's like a sculptor's process.

337
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 2: You're a block of rock, and through your entire career,

338
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 2: you're chipping away that rock to your true self. That's

339
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 2: his analogy. I think it's a really good analogy. And

340
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,360
Speaker 2: through this process of making the videos, I'm actually finding

341
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 2: out what my voice is and what, you know, what's

342
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 2: the sort of type of message I'm trying to communicate. Obviously,

343
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,920
Speaker 2: I'm not a comedian. I'm I'm you know, there's lots

344
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,439
Speaker 2: of things that I'm not, and it's really about just

345
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 2: trying to work out what I am and the more

346
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 2: of it is that I do that. I feel like,

347
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 2: you know, I'm I'm starting to sort of hack off

348
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 2: chunks of rock off myself and get closer to my

349
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 2: true voice and what actually works for me.

350
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,239
Speaker 1: I reckon, you're an edutainer. That's what you are, the

351
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: intersection of entertainment and education. Because it is like that.

352
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 1: It is quite entertaining. And the fact that you so

353
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do is I want to I

354
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 1: want to talk about a few and and encourage people

355
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 1: to go and watch them. But give us a snapshot

356
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 1: into some of the videos. I've got myself a little

357
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 1: list here. I actually prepped. Can you believe I Craig

358
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: Anthony Harper, who never preps. I prep. I did a

359
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 1: solid eight minutes. So you're welcome. So you and I

360
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 1: both without knowing, watched the Tom Brady Roast if you

361
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: haven't watched, well, I was going to recommend everyone watch it.

362
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,439
Speaker 1: You know what, if you're easily offended, definitely don't fucking

363
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: watch it. But if you've got a thick skin and

364
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: you're a bit you know, you're not a big politically

365
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 1: correct kind of advocate, and you're not too presh, watch

366
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,160
Speaker 1: the Tom Brady Roast. It's on Netflix. How the fuck

367
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 1: they get away with the stuff they say is it

368
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 1: is so far up the other end of the scale.

369
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: It's hilarious and offensive. But Nicky Glasser or Glacier, who

370
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 1: is a comedian, she did, she did, she did a spot,

371
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: she did a she did about eight minutes of stand

372
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: up just roasting the shit out of Tom Brady and

373
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: she was hilarious. And you did, you did a little

374
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: vid talking about laugh You spoke about her, and then

375
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: you said something like that laughter is a stress response.

376
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: Can you explain that a little bit in a minute

377
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 1: or two? Or is it a stress response? Maybe that's

378
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: the question you were asking.

379
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 2: Is there is a good there's a number of people

380
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 2: who think that laughter is a response to stress, right,

381
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 2: And the theory being that there's lots of people have

382
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 2: looked at the at humor and try to work it

383
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 2: out like why do we laugh? You know? And other

384
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: people try to dissect human because they want to be

385
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 2: funny her or funny like a comedian. But there's some

386
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 2: euroscience thinking that the laughter is just a way to

387
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 2: relieve the pressure when you realize from that stress response

388
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 2: that there's no threats, there's no danger. So the classic one,

389
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 2: and this is a classic human behavior walking along, someone

390
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 2: jumps out at us and scares the hell out of us,

391
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 2: and we jump back and it's a full, full stress response,

392
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 2: and then we realize it's a joke, and the next

393
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: thing we do is laugh, right, why do we do that?

394
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 2: And the stress response comes definitely comes from the hyperthalamous,

395
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 2: like all the sympathetics originate from the hypothalamus, which is

396
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 2: an incredible part of the brain, by the way, and

397
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: so that that sort of does that automatic process. I

398
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 2: remember this clearly. We were walking with Carli one day

399
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: in the bush and I put my hand out and

400
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: stopped her without realizing what I was doing. It's completely subconscious,

401
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 2: just stopped her and then I sort of see the

402
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: snake about three meters in front of us going off

403
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: the track. Like it's such an automated immediate protective response anyway.

404
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: So when we see that there's no threat, then there's

405
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 2: this sort of idea that's that's the way of releasing

406
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: relieving stress. But I also mentioned this brain tumor in

407
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: the hypothalamus, that it's a rare one, but when people

408
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: get it, their response is to control is to laugh uncontrollably,

409
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: which is really bizarre. But it's in exactly the same

410
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,479
Speaker 2: spot on the brain, the hypothalamus. I don't know if

411
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: we'll ever know exactly why we laugh, but that's probably

412
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 2: one of the best theories.

413
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: What about I love the one that you did on

414
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: You're talking about the way that our brain, our brain,

415
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: which is kind of a one point or kilo or

416
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: give or take three pound kind of lump that sits

417
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 1: in our skull, and how it stays foot and how

418
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: it doesn't really crash around inside our skull and we

419
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: don't give ourselves CTU thirty five times a day. Explain

420
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: why that happens. Explain yeah, how it's how it kind

421
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: of protects it cell.

422
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: It's incredible. It's one point four kilos. It's floating in seawater,

423
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: basically warm sea water. There's about one hundred and fifty

424
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: mils of it. And that buoyancy reduces the effective weight

425
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 2: from one point four kilos to about fifty grams. Like,

426
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 2: that's incredibly powerful, and the spinal cord is the same.

427
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 2: I can see it on a scan. Look at the

428
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 2: scan of someone's neck or their back, and I can

429
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 2: see the spinal cord running down and the fluid circuferentially

430
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: around the spinal cord nacts like a water cushion. So

431
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: we're thrashing around, we're moving, we're falling, whatever we're doing,

432
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 2: and it's basically like nature's air bag. So that buoyancy

433
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: is just super super powerful. Like momentum of the brain,

434
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: what's momentum mass times velocity, So it's effectively reduced the

435
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 2: effective mass. That's a play. It's an incredibly powerful mechanism.

436
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: And people who lose that fluid for whatever reason get

437
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: horrific headaches. That's one of the first thing, the first

438
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 2: things they notice.

439
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: And so what is that, I mean, see salt water?

440
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: What is it?

441
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 2: Like?

442
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: Literally like salt water, that's why. And it creates this

443
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: buoyancy effect.

444
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got one hundred and fifty million miles of

445
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: sody minutes. It's like almost exactly seawater just at body temperature. Wow, yeah,

446
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 2: it's incredible. It's and then like the brain's got all

447
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: these cuts and grooves and fishes and crevices in it

448
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 2: as well. And I think that's another mechanism for protecting

449
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 2: the brains. The brain's not just like a basketball like

450
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 2: one just solid lump of stuff. It's got all these

451
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 2: crevices and grooves, which again further subdivides the brain up

452
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: into smaller mass and gives it gives a water cushion

453
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 2: to all different parts of the brain. And some really

454
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: famous deep crevices in the brain that are filled with fluid.

455
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 2: And there's all the smaller ones on the surface of

456
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 2: the brain that also act as a water cushion. It's

457
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: just a really incredible mechanism for something so delicate, like

458
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: during an operation, you only really appreciate being in the brain.

459
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 2: Just how delicate actually is, Like with a sucker or

460
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 2: a bipolar forcep the brain just gives way, It just

461
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: yields immediately, so soft and so delicate. Yet we do

462
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 2: crazy stuff like you know people bungee jump or you

463
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 2: know you see mma fighters do stuff or whatever it

464
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 2: might be, or just even like normal day life, that

465
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: brain should just be we should all be just like zombies.

466
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: It should just be minced meat from moving around. But

467
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: it just it's a testament to it's an incredible solution

468
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: by nature. Float the brain in seawater.

469
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: You must look at like I was thinking as you

470
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: were talking about the different ways that we impact our

471
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, like whether it's mma fighting or bungee jumping,

472
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: but even in something like soccer, where you know, people

473
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: literally hit this ball that's flying at a pretty rapid

474
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: rate with their face, like when you're heading the ball,

475
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: and you've been like kids start doing that at five, six,

476
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: seven years old. But do you do you kind of

477
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: cringe when you see that or do you just think, well,

478
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: that's just what happens now.

479
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: I cringe. I cringe at all head knocks in all sports.

480
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: I don't know if you if you headed a soccer

481
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: ball that's a hard hit.

482
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have, but I'm yet not you know, probably

483
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: five times in my life, which is probably five times

484
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: too many. But do you think when it comes to

485
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: CTE that there's a bit of genetic variability in terms

486
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: of how much damage happens because it seems that some people,

487
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, there's no one that scaped escapes totally unscathed

488
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: when they've had kind of head trauma. But it seems

489
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: like there are some people who, you know, sixty years

490
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: of age and they played full contact sports from when

491
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: they were eight to when they were thirty five, and

492
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: cognitively they seem fine, and then there are other people

493
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: who at forty you can tell there's a cognitive slide

494
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: happening and maybe they didn't have the same level of trauma.

495
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: So is there is a little bit about the genetics

496
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: of the individual as well.

497
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: That probably is, but definitely a big factor is the

498
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: type of trauma, there's no question about that. So head

499
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: injury that involves a rotational component to where the head

500
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: rotates rather than just sort of thick forwards and backwards,

501
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: that's known to be particularly damaging, and there are a

502
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 2: number of reasons for that. One really interesting reason is

503
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: that the white matter and the gray matter in the

504
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,239
Speaker 2: brain are different densities, and when the brain rotates as

505
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: a rapetortional force, like being punched in the side of

506
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: the face or falling in a twisting motion, the gray

507
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: and the white matter accelerate and decelerate at slightly different rates,

508
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: and so they get a shearing force between the gray

509
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: and the white matter, but actually the white matter disconnect

510
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: and that is we call it the fusax on injury.

511
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: But it's a devastating injury. So one rotational bad rotational

512
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: injury can equal you know, twenty soccer balls to the

513
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: head type thing, so that the mechanism is really powerful.

514
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: As NFL guys, they can get sort of direct head contacts,

515
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: but then you see them when they hit the ground

516
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: and there's a real well hit from the side and

517
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: their head is not only a whiplash, but it's got

518
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 2: that real sharp rotational component to it. We know that's dangerous.

519
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: I saw a guy somebody sent me a clip of

520
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: a guy getting wheel kicked in the head, always a

521
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: great thing, will kicked in the head, and he was

522
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: instantly unconscious on his feet, and then obviously when he

523
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: fell to the ground, he didn't put his arms out

524
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: because he was already unconscious. And I had to look

525
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: like I almost had to look through my fingers because

526
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: I knew, well, one, he's already fucked right, He's just

527
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: unconscious on his feet, and then he just falls to

528
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: the ground, which was an even bigger impact because then

529
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: he just smashed his head on the ground. I'm thinking

530
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: just one of those, just that once, just one kick,

531
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: one fall like that, that could be the end of someone's.

532
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: Life, right literally, So we call it a king hit,

533
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: well probably most people call it a king hit, but

534
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 2: a king hit in neurosurgery is a devastating brain Kids

535
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: die from it. They come into into d fully intubated

536
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: after a King hit. They have a horrific brain injury,

537
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: and often they die. And there is is exactly as

538
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: you said. They get so usually out like Saturday night,

539
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: everyone's drunk. Someone's drunk, someone comes up behind them. This

540
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: is how it works, and so they don't see the

541
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: assaultant come up hits him in the back of the head.

542
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: So no defenses have been mobilized, so it's completely sort

543
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: of an unarmed sort of type thing. And they're out

544
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: conscious and so then gravity takes over and they hit

545
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: the deck and normally you would break your fall, and

546
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: you know, you'd break your wrist or something and try

547
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: and break your fall, but there's there's nothing to break

548
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: the fall. They just do a pin drop to the

549
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: ground and the head gets that second impact on the

550
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: concrete and those brains, that brain in a young kid

551
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: the injury is so severe that the brain just swells uncontrollably,

552
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: and more often than not they die.

553
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: Well, you apart from being a a world class neurosurgeon,

554
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,239
Speaker 1: you also you were also a very good cricketer and

555
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: you were looking at that as a potential career. So

556
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: you would well know the David Hooks story. Of course,

557
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: do you know that story? Yeah, he got king hit

558
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: and that that's exactly what happened to him. You got

559
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: hit by somebody from I think behind or the side,

560
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: fell hit his head on the concrete and tragically, you

561
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: know that was it. I mean, yeah, it happens all right.

562
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: On a brighter note, Let's go back to some of

563
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 1: your bids. You did one which fascinated me. You were

564
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: talking about all of the myriad of colors at Coachella,

565
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: I think, and you see that magenta, what a so

566
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: Magenta's like a purply color? I think? And you said,

567
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: Magenta's not real, it's there is no color like it

568
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: actually doesn't exist. We make it up. We make magenta up.

569
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: And I think you said, in fact, we make did

570
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 1: you say we make all colors up? But can you

571
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: explain that.

572
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: It's super cool? So first with magenta. There's a wavelength

573
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: for everything on the color spectrum that we see everything from,

574
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: you know, from basically red to blue. So any color

575
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: in amongst that it has a wavelength. There's a physical

576
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: wavelength shooting through space and through the sky that hits

577
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: the back of our eye, and the brain interprets that

578
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: Spiegel signal for that color. But between red and blue,

579
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: when red and blue are simultaneously shot, there is the

580
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: brain creates a color that doesn't exist on the color spectrum.

581
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: If you shine white light on the prism int, it

582
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: will not show on the prism, Purple won't show. And

583
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: it's an incredible, incredibly fascinating idea that the brain receives

584
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: a wavelength of light that is red and a wavelength

585
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: of light that is blue and creates a color that

586
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: has never had a wavelength or existed in the physical universe.

587
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: It's a pure invention of the human brain. It's an

588
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: invention of biology. But there's nothing out there.

589
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: What about though, when I look at a dress that's magenta.

590
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: So and like they even TV's now the tricolor TVs.

591
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: You know they're red, blue and green, or they are magenta,

592
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: cyan and one other color now so, but again there's

593
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: still just a combination. There's still just a combination of

594
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: red and blue.

595
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, that's amazing it is.

596
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: And then every every color is every color is invented.

597
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the this is the real kicker.

598
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: Like it's incredible. Really, it's these wavelengths of light hit

599
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: the back of eye, it gets turned into an electrical signal.

600
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: It's just an electrical spike. H and that travels along

601
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 2: the optic nerve, the chias and the tract optic radiation.

602
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: Then it gets to the visual cortex. It's all just

603
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: electrical spikes. There's nothing more to it. And what's more

604
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: is that every color has the same electrical spike. It's

605
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: an all or none principle. Every spike is exactly the same,

606
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: and so there's train of identical electrical spikes arrive at

607
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: the visual cortex, and that generates more electrical activity, and

608
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: then at some point that electric activity turns into the

609
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: spectrum of color that we appreciate around us. That's always

610
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: been a fascination for me, that that gap between turning

611
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: electricity into into into the into things we hear, see, feel, taste.

612
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: There's a there's a Nobel prize up for grabs if

613
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: you can, if you can solve.

614
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: It, I'll look into it. I'll get back to you.

615
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: I've got some stuff on but the weekend weekend job, Yeah,

616
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: I'll do it on Sunday. I've got some time. Like

617
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: when we talk about subjective experience and interpretation and personal

618
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: reality and all of that, you know, it's like you

619
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: and I get exposed to the same stimulus and we

620
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: have a different experience. I think it's funny, you think

621
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 1: it's offensive. Or I think this tastes amazing. You think

622
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: the same thing tastes like dog shit.

623
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 2: You know?

624
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: Is that the same with color? Like I've got a

625
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: yellow ball here can I oops? There we go like, yeah,

626
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: so I've got a yellow ball that I just It's

627
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: like I just squeeze it right, and I'm wondering. I'm

628
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: holding it up everyone. I'm wondering if you and I

629
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: see the like we both if I showed you, you'd

630
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: probably say, yeah, that's yellow or maybe mustard or whatever.

631
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: But I wonder if my version of yellow is exactly

632
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: what you're seeing. Do you know what I mean? It's

633
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: like the color that I recognize as blue or yellow

634
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: or orange. I wonder if you and there's no way

635
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: of knowing, but I wonder if we're looking at the

636
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: same thing in inverted commas.

637
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wondered, And then extend that to the animal kingdom,

638
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: like how do they see the world?

639
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: Yeah?

640
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, like is like for a dog, for example, is

641
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: the world coherent or is it just utter chaos? From

642
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: how they see the world, it's just total chaos, just

643
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: finding their way through.

644
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: Probably varies from breed to breed. All right, another one

645
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about.

646
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: You were you go? That's that's a that's a that's

647
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: a really great point. So what you raised there, that's

648
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: the other mind's problem. That is a massive problem in euroscience.

649
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: I will never be able to get inside your head

650
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 2: and see what the world looks like from your point

651
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: of view. That's one of the big barriers to try

652
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: to work all this out. Everything else in research, you

653
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: can access it, get inside it, look at break it down,

654
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 2: destruct it, reconstruct it, work out what's going on. But

655
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: I will never ever be able to hack into your

656
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 2: brain and see the world from your point of view.

657
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: In fact, I don't even know if you're even conscious.

658
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: I can't even prove that you can't prove it I'm conscious,

659
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: but that that other mind's problem is one of the

660
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: biggest hurdles for us understanding the human brain and.

661
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: Also understanding you know, what we call colloquially the mind,

662
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: right is trying to like that's why psychology and this

663
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: is coming from someone doing a PhD in psychology. I mean,

664
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: it's such a fucking slippery slope because it is, you know,

665
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: at least with the brain, you can see stuff, measure it, literally,

666
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: quantify things, poke it, card it, dissect it, look at

667
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: it under a microscope. You can't with the mind. And

668
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: then you try, you know, it's like I go, I'm happy,

669
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: and you say you're happy. We could be talking about

670
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: totally different things, you know. Or I get you to

671
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: do a you know, some kind of self assessment, you know,

672
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: on Monday morning at nine o'clock and we get certain data,

673
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: and then you do the same I get you to

674
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 1: do the same assessment Friday afternoon, and the same guy

675
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: doing the same assessment gives us totally different data. That's why, yeah, exactly,

676
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: that the whole subjective reality of the individual. It's a

677
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: very slippery construct.

678
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: We can't even do with the brain though, I actually

679
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: can't really measure the brain. All we do in neuroscience

680
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 2: and neurosurgery, all we've ever done is wait for it

681
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: to break, then see what part is broken, and then

682
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: see what the patient looks like. That's how it's always been.

683
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: So whether they've had a starts off with head injury.

684
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: I was like, I's got a bullet this part of

685
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: his brain. He's still awake, but he can't do this,

686
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 2: and so then it was assumed that part of the

687
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: brain must have something to do with this. That's all

688
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: it's ever been. We've never there's never been anything more

689
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: advanced than essentially studying the injured brain, whether it's trauma

690
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 2: or tumor, or some blood vessel problem or a stroke,

691
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: and then working backwards.

692
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, yeah, nobody's having surgery when their brain's

693
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: perfect and healthy. What you also did another one that

694
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: I loved about talking about the difference between being under

695
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: a general anesthetic called being like I don't know what

696
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: do you call that? Unconscious like and sleep and how

697
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, when I wake up in the morning, I

698
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: feel like I've had eight hours sleep. But if I

699
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: had an eight hour operation, I'd feel like I got

700
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: put under one minute ago, Like, talk to us about that.

701
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: The evaporation of time.

702
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: It's a complete obliteration of time. I love it every

703
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: time in the theater. He needs to just get sick

704
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: of me talking about this. I'm like, do you just

705
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,479
Speaker 2: realize what you've just done. They're putting that patient to sleep,

706
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: and like, what, You've just disconnected their brain from consciousness.

707
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: That is where the magic is, that connection between the

708
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: brain and conscious You have literally just disconnected them at

709
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: that critical point. What have you done? How did you

710
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: do that?

711
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: Well?

712
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 2: I don't know. It just gave them the drugs.

713
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: Wow. But I love intelligent anesthetis or shit.

714
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 2: I've got patients who like, I'm going to resist this anesthetic.

715
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to count and I'm going to stay awake

716
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: for as long as possible. And they're great, they go,

717
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: you just even go ten, nine, eight, set, sit, and

718
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: then they're gone, yes, And then the magic happens somewhere.

719
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: That propofile, that that white milky drug that we give

720
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: them HiT's right at the target and disconnects and nothing

721
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 2: else disconnects. I mean, obviously a whack to the head

722
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: does and things like that. But you know, such an

723
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: incredible thing you have ten thousand people in the stadium.

724
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: Consciousness is not there's no distortions like a Wi Fi

725
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: signal or anything like that. It's it's just one hundred

726
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: percent pure strong signal of that connection between the physical

727
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: brain and the non physical consciousness. The signals one hundred

728
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: percent and it's always there unless you're dead or we

729
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 2: have a journal anesthetic and there's just something very magical

730
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 2: about that that is hitting at that gap between the

731
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 2: physical and the non physical, and it is it's a

732
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: complete obliteration of time. You sleep, like even a deep sleep,

733
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 2: you feel like, oh, you know, that was a good sleep,

734
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: and you wake up and feel refreshed. Sure it doesn't

735
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: feel like sitting around waiting for something for eight hours,

736
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 2: but you sort of have a general sense that time

737
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 2: has passed. And you might sort of have the general

738
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: vague awareness during the sleep perhaps or maybe you dream,

739
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: but with a general anti it is a complete obliteration

740
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: of time. It is literally like that, go to sleep

741
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 2: and bang your wake up. It's just gone.

742
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: It's like you're it's like you're pulling out the plug

743
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: on an appliance and the appliance might not be turned on,

744
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: but it's still connected to the power. And then but

745
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: when you this is a terrible analogy, so correct me.

746
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: But then like when you go under general anesthetic, like

747
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: you're not connected to anything, there is no there's no

748
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: energy in or out or no no connection.

749
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 2: It's just super bizarre. It's so bizarre. And I can

750
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: spend two hours doing an operation and looking at the

751
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: just looking at the brain. It looks exactly the same

752
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: as if someone's awaken. I've done an operation with a

753
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: patient awaken, I've done them under a general anesthetic, and

754
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: the brain looks exactly the same, exactly the same. It's

755
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: pulsing away, it looks the same color, it's got the

756
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: same consistency. So what's different, Like what's actually been switched off?

757
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: Where is that switch that that propofol is actually done?

758
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: I don't know who knows.

759
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: That's so amazing, and so nobody I know the answer

760
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: to this. But I'm just double. So nobody ever dreams

761
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: in surgery. Nobody ever wakes up and says I had

762
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: a dream.

763
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: Never, There's some people like that the anesthetic doesn't work

764
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, so that switch doesn't get flicked, And

765
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 2: like there's those horror stories. I was awake during my

766
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: entire operation, but I couldn't move because of the paralysis drugs.

767
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: Fuck that.

768
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: And then there's some people have a theory, well, actually

769
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 2: we're all we're all awake during anesthetic. All it does

770
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: is just wipe our memory, so we just don't remember it.

771
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 2: So whenever we have an operation, we're all skin and

772
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 2: screaming in an agony. But then somehow it wipes our

773
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: brain when we wake up, so we never remember the pain.

774
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a good theory.

775
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: You told you told a story in one of your

776
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: reels about thirty four year old lady named Chloe who

777
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: had a grain a brain tumor that grew I think,

778
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: very slowly, but it ended up being a big brain tumor.

779
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: But she didn't have like she had only minor headaches

780
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: despite this fucking massive tumor. Why is that? Why wasn't

781
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: she an excruciating pain?

782
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting. We call it the cliff face.

783
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: If something grows really slowly, the brain can adapt and

784
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: if it goes super slowly and get really massive and

785
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: push the brain right over to the other side of

786
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 2: the head literally, And in this case, that's what happened

787
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: to her, but it was okay because the tumor grew

788
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: millimeters per year, and so the brain just would adapt

789
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: to the pressure and adapt to the pressure and adapt

790
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: to the pressure and adapt to the pressure. And it's

791
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,720
Speaker 2: a hallmark of benign pathology when it gets super large

792
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 2: and they're relatively well as opposed to cancer, which goes

793
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: really fast, and so usually pick up cancer as a

794
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: much smaller size because because it grows so fast, the

795
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: brain just can't adapt to the rapid growth and it

796
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 2: starts reacting straight away and really early on in the piece.

797
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 2: So she had this massive tumor, a benign tumor, but

798
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 2: the cliff face and that is basically that is when

799
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: the brain suddenly stops adapting it it runs out of

800
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: its reserves. It's adapted. It's adapt that is adapted a

801
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: bit like the straw that breaks the camel's back, right,

802
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: and then it just runs out and people crash and

803
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: burn really quickly. And that was the risk with her.

804
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 2: So she was well that she was getting close to

805
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 2: that cliff face. You never know exactly where it's going

806
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 2: to be, but you know it's coming and they're getting close.

807
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: How big was that like? Give us like compared to

808
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: say a golf ball, one golf ball, half a golf ball,

809
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: two gogars.

810
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: No, we're talking like a mango. Really yeah, and like

811
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: you know a mango inside that is huge, like it

812
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: took up it took I would say it took up

813
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: about fifth nearly a quarter of her crani or space.

814
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: And how this is a dumb question, but how do

815
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: you get that tumor out? Does it? Is it sucked out?

816
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: Is it? Do you? I don't know how. I mean,

817
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: I know this is a much more complicated than my

818
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: very lame question, but yeah, how do you get it out?

819
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: There's this beautiful instrument, so I don't use a scalpel.

820
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: I use the scalpel on the skin and then I

821
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: never used the scalpel ever again during the operation, which

822
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: is strange. Everyone thinks it's all scalpel. Yeah. There's something

823
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: called accuser CUSA, which stands for uh cavetron ultrasonic aspirate. Essentially,

824
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: it's like holding a pen and the tip of it

825
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: vibrates at a very high frequency which shatters the tissue

826
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: at its tip, and then after shattering the tissue, it

827
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: then suck the tissue up. So basically fragments a solid

828
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 2: object and it's just beautiful and you can change the setting.

829
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: And so basically I just hollow out the center of

830
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: the tumor. It's like it's called a witch's caldron technique.

831
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 2: Hollow out the center of the tumor using the cavetron

832
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: and just get it so it's all hollowed out, and

833
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 2: then collapse the capsule of the tumor in on itself

834
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 2: away from the brain. So you turn a solid lump

835
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: into a witch's caldron, which is essentially an empty vessel,

836
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: and the wall of the thing is now the capsule

837
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: of the tumor. And then that's when I start collapsing

838
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 2: the wall of the tumor in on itself and dissecting

839
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: it away from the brain.

840
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. Your job is the

841
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: fucking weirdest job, the most terrifying job. How long before

842
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: again this could be a night naive question, but how

843
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: long before that cavity, that space that you've just created

844
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: with the removal of the tumor gets for one of

845
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: a better term, reinhabited by the brain, that gets filled

846
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: up again, or does it? Or is there a permanent

847
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of spare room in there.

848
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: I've seen her scan four years later, and I would

849
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 2: say ninety percent of that space the brain has re expanded,

850
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: like the brain almost always reexpands, but there is always

851
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 2: some evidence that there has been something there. So there's

852
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 2: a there's a gliotic cavity or a cavity lined by

853
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 2: scar tissue. So it's never one hundred percent. I would

854
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 2: say that her cavity is it would be the size

855
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 2: of a ping pong ball something like that. That's something small.

856
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: Why do Why did benign tumors grow? What are they

857
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: made of? I feel like they're made of fat or something.

858
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: What are they made of?

859
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 2: You can get light pomer, like a liightpomer is a

860
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 2: fat tumor in the brain, but hers was basically collagen fiber. Wow,

861
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 2: it's like fiberglasts and lots and lots of college and

862
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 2: so it's a really fibrous, fleshy type tumor metastasis like

863
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: a lung met to the brain or breast smetastas to

864
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 2: the brain. That's really what we call psychomatists, which is

865
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: another word for saying a fleshy tumor, And that's mainly

866
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: just all cells that under a microscope. It's just a

867
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: whole heap of cells stacked on top of each other,

868
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: and it's really fleshy like liver. Basically, they come out

869
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: really easily, but meningioma is a really fibrous, dense tumor.

870
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: It takes a while to hollow those things out. This

871
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 2: is his typathology man all pathology. As part of our exam,

872
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 2: look at a slide and say what tumors is based

873
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: on looking at the cells and the structure. It's the

874
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: thing we learned last.

875
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: Do you do you ever get you know, when you're

876
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: just about like is there a This is a weird question,

877
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: but do you enjoy it? Like when you're getting rid

878
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: of that shit and you're basically healing this person or

879
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 1: at least opening a doorway to healing for this person.

880
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: Does it give you joy in the moment or are

881
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: you just too caught up in the focus and the

882
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: process to enjoy it.

883
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: Not thinking about the patient at all, not once to

884
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 2: even think of their face, remember talking to them. It's

885
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 2: just purely a game of biological chess. So that is

886
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 2: it's a goal to be achieved, and I absolutely love

887
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: the challenge of doing that, of using a surgical technique,

888
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: whatever that technique might be, to get that thing out

889
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 2: without causing a problem. And that's just how I see it.

890
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: Now when said that, When you just said that, I'm

891
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,439
Speaker 1: not thinking of the patient at all. Some people are like, oh,

892
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: he's a fucking sociopath. Tell us why you're not a sociopath.

893
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: Well, it'd be like you saying bolt after all that

894
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 2: training at the one hundred meters the Olympics final, looking

895
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: across and feeling sorry for or worrying about how the

896
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: other guys are going, Are you okay? Are you going

897
00:49:58,680 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: to be all right? You know you want me to

898
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 2: slad whatever. He's not thinking about that, he's thinking about

899
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: he's thinking about the squad is about the push off

900
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: the gun, you know, the first ten meters and then

901
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: getting upright, and then it's about an execution of a

902
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 2: skill that gives the best results. So in surgery, it's

903
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 2: an execution of a of a of a technique or

904
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: a skill that leads to the best results. So if

905
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 2: you're thinking about the patients, it's actually it actually puts

906
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: you off your game. And maybe some surgeons do, but

907
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: you know I certainly don't. And all the great ones

908
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: that I trained with, certainly don't. It's very much about

909
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: executing plan and that's all all the focus.

910
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: Is whatever you need to do to get the best result.

911
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: That's what I think. Like and I think, yeah, maybe

912
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 1: because I'm an mpath, right, I'd be a terrible surgeon

913
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: for more reasons than that. But I'd be a terrible surgeon.

914
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: But I think that, which is not to say you

915
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: don't care. I know you care because I know how you.

916
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: I know how you liaise with your patients and meet

917
00:50:58,920 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: with your patients.

918
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 2: Know that.

919
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 1: But I guess in that moment, if you were worried

920
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: or you know, you were feeling certain feelings about the patient,

921
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: that's taking away from your focus and therefore from the

922
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: execution of what needs to be done.

923
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 2: I guess absolutely. But that's that's it's a very different

924
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 2: game before the operation and after the operation. Sitting in

925
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: the room, talking to them in my room, it's it's

926
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: a it's a complete opposite. I'm talking to them as

927
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: if they are my family.

928
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

929
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they always asked me like if I was

930
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 2: your dad or your mum, what would you do? Yes,

931
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: So before the before and after the operation is exactly

932
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: it's the exact opposite, Like I'm talking to them as

933
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: if they are family, Like I look at them and go,

934
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: if that was my dad or my mum, what would

935
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: I want them to have done? Yes, So it's all

936
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about is them and their quality of life.

937
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: I'm always struck. I'm always struck after just say the

938
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 2: simplest operation, I do a micro diskectomy. It might take

939
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 2: me fifteen twenty minutes, no sweat, routine operation, and I

940
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 2: ring up the family and go Dlex here, I've just

941
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: reading to let you know I finished the operation. It's

942
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: all gone well, and the wife or the husband or

943
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 2: the daughter or the whatever on the phone. The relief

944
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 2: that comes off their shoulders is completely disproportionate to what

945
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 2: I feel like I have just done. But what I

946
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: feel like I've done is it's been a walk in

947
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 2: the park and super easy. And for them, it's like

948
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 2: they've just had this incredible weight on their shoulders worrying

949
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: about this operation. And I really like that because it

950
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: just reminds me about the human side of what's going

951
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: on here. Like, yes, it is an operation, but ultimately

952
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 2: it's about someone's life. And when you're talking about their

953
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: health it's a huge thing and you don't really fully

954
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: appreciate it, I suppose to until you're a patient. In fact.

955
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: Henry Marsh is a neurosurgeon in the UK who has

956
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 2: just written his last book. He's an eminent neurosurgeon, and

957
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: his last book he talks about having prostate cancer and

958
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 2: the idea of going from being a surgeon and the

959
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 2: apex predator in a hospital basically to being the prostate

960
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: guy in bed seven and feeling what it's like to

961
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: suddenly just be nothing, irrelevant and just a patient, not

962
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 2: even by naming he's the prostate cancer guy in seven

963
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: and that is just the sense of inevitability, the sense

964
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 2: of almost not being even human. I found that really

965
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,959
Speaker 2: quite an interesting insight from a surgeon who's subsequently become

966
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: a patient. And I've just made it my goal never

967
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: to make someone feel like that because happening to you

968
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 2: and even like, you know, one of my parents had

969
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 2: surgery and you just realize what it's like on the

970
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 2: other side of the fence. You know, it's it's that's

971
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: your mum. It's like that's everything you've lived with him

972
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 2: in your entire life. And I get that. I didn't

973
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: get it at the start of my career, but I

974
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 2: definitely get that now, so I have a good balance

975
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 2: now before and after. It's it's all about the patient,

976
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 2: their life and everything that they represent during the operation.

977
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 2: It's it's you know, it's it's a game of biological

978
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 2: chests and pure focus.

979
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: Mate. I've got another ten things on my list. I

980
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: think we might have to come back next week and

981
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: do another one. So doctor Alex kofeman ko e f

982
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: m A n on in to go follow him, give him,

983
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: give him a little bit of love and as always, enlightening, informative,

984
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: great edutainment by you and we will. I'm coming to

985
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: Brisbane soon, by the way, I'm coming to hang on

986
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: checks whiteboard July twenty five, so you and I'll have

987
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: to do dinner and we'll get together. Put it in

988
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: your diary. Probably I'll be on July twenty five. I'm

989
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: up July twenty five, doing a corporate gig on on

990
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: the twenty sixth, but I'm doing a public workshop on

991
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: the twenty fifth, by the way, Brizzy people. That'll be

992
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 1: announced soon, so booking only twenty people. Private workshop called

993
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 1: Stop Wasting Your Potential. Alex might come and do a cameo.

994
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: Who the fuck knows, but you and I will definitely

995
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: have to do food, coffee and spooning on the couch.

996
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 2: Yep, you be wearing those cargo shorts, so you gotta

997
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 2: WACKPD some jeans fore you get a effort.

998
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: I'll be wearing some spandex and yeah, no, of course

999
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: I'll be in mate. I don't have any other clothes.

1000
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: I'm all about function, All about function. Thanks mate, Thanks Craig.

1001
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 2: There's awesome mate thinking