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Speaker 1: White Roy. Welcome straight to it.

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Speaker 2: Mate, here you going, great to be here, great to

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Speaker 2: have a chat.

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Speaker 3: Well here, you're not here, actually you're all the way

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Speaker 3: over in is it Read?

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Speaker 4: I am in Read, which in the middle of summer

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Speaker 4: is the best place in the world. Actually, it's glorious

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Speaker 4: and sunny and blue skies and one of the most

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Speaker 4: interesting places on the planet, I think.

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Speaker 3: And just to explain everybody read being in Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 3: it'll just give us a bit of a broader aspect

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Speaker 3: of where you are, like physically, like in the world,

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Speaker 3: like relative to some places, because a lot of people

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Speaker 3: don't even know where Saudi Arabia is.

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously the Middle East, but where generally, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's one of the most highly kind of

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Speaker 4: strategic and connected places in the world. If you think

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Speaker 4: about it in terms of the map, you can get

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Speaker 4: to an enormous percentage of the world's.

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Speaker 2: Population within a few hours.

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Speaker 4: So strategic in the Middle East, but you know, a

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Speaker 4: few hours flight to Europe and a few hours flight

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Speaker 4: to Asia, a little bit longer to America and Australia.

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Speaker 4: But it is this really beautiful part of the world,

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Speaker 4: very strategic in terms of how you can move goods

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Speaker 4: and services around the world. And obviously it's a a

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Speaker 4: rapidly growing and developing part of the world as well.

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Speaker 2: So it's a.

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Speaker 4: Real kind of hub that is opening up to people

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Speaker 4: from across the globe. And now there are thousands and

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Speaker 4: thousands of people moving here and starting to call it home.

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Speaker 3: And we'll talk a little bit later about sort of

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Speaker 3: who White Roy was many years ago.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a long time ago. It wasn't that

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Speaker 1: long ago, but a.

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Speaker 2: Few years not that old yet.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're still like mid thirties, I'd say, about thirty

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Speaker 3: five or something like that. But what are you doing

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Speaker 3: in read or in Saudi Arabia? What are you doing

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Speaker 3: in read now in Saudi Arabia?

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Speaker 1: What are you doing right now?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: What's your role?

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Speaker 4: So up until this week and a bit of a

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Speaker 4: exclusive for you and the listeners, the head of innovation

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Speaker 4: at Neon, which is one of the most exciting projects

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Speaker 4: on the planet. It's an incredibly beautiful part of the

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Speaker 4: world in northwest Saudi Arabia. It's actually the size of

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Speaker 4: Belgium that's been developed as part of the economic transition

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Speaker 4: of the kingdom.

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Speaker 2: And so up until this week.

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Speaker 4: I was head of Innovation for the last two years,

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Speaker 4: an incredible kind of chapter where I worked with people

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Speaker 4: across the country, you know, across innovation, whether that's entrepreneurs, investors, funds, agencies,

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Speaker 4: research and development institutions to help drive that economic transition

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Speaker 4: and really how we can look at solving those the

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Speaker 4: big challenges in the world across you know, name the

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Speaker 4: different verticals, whether that's healthcare or education, or mobility or energy,

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Speaker 4: to help ultimately drive that economic transition, but to help

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Speaker 4: make a better world. And so I've had two years

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Speaker 4: of doing that which has been absolutely incredible but maybe

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Speaker 4: a little bit of an exclusive for you now moving

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Speaker 4: on to the next chapter, which I won't be able

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Speaker 4: to say just yet what it is, but working with

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Speaker 4: really people in the region as well doing the next thing,

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Speaker 4: which I'm very excited about but incredibly grateful which for

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Speaker 4: what has been a life changing experience to work with

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Speaker 4: some of these people in this remarkable country.

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Speaker 3: So when you say Neoon, maybe you speak like as

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Speaker 3: if it's very familiar with it, which obviously it is,

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Speaker 3: like most of us, I sort of know what it's about,

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Speaker 3: but most Australians wouldnt know what Neon means the word

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Speaker 3: even is an unusual word.

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Speaker 1: What is neo I'm doing?

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Speaker 3: You talked about an innovation, you talked about perhaps sponsoring entrepreneurs,

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Speaker 3: making sure people have made discoveries, trying to basically help

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Speaker 3: the world, and you talked about economic transition for Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 3: What are we sort of transitioning from too? What are

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Speaker 3: the objectives and in particular, what's Neon's focus.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's a great question, and it's a big project,

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Speaker 4: so it does take a while for everyone to kind

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Speaker 4: of get across it. And it just to have something

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Speaker 4: that ambitious in the modern world I think is hugely exciting.

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Speaker 2: But it is.

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Speaker 4: It's different, right, It's naturally different by.

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Speaker 2: What it is.

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Speaker 4: So let me talk through where it is and what

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Speaker 4: it looks like, and then I can talk through how

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Speaker 4: it plays a role in the bigger kind of transition. So,

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Speaker 4: as I said, it's in the northwest of Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 4: genuinely one of the most beautiful parts of the world

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Speaker 4: that I've ever seen, so very close and connected to

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Speaker 4: the rest of the world. But it's situated along the

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Speaker 4: Gulf of Akaba and then into the Red Sea, which

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Speaker 4: as a Queenslander. It's really hard to say this, but

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Speaker 4: some of the most amazing reef I've ever seen anywhere.

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Speaker 1: In the world, like as coral.

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Speaker 2: The Red Sea.

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Speaker 4: Coral is actually some of the most special coral anywhere

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Speaker 4: in the world because it's extremely resistant to heat, so

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Speaker 4: the Red seas the warmest sea in the world, and

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Speaker 4: these corals are incredibly vibrant and beautiful, huge sea life,

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Speaker 4: so you know, we have turtles and dolphins and whale,

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Speaker 4: sharks and every marine mammal you can kind of think

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Speaker 4: of existing in this pretty untouched part of the world,

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Speaker 4: you know, very kind of virgin Neil has a series

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Speaker 4: of islands that go into the Red Sea which are

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Speaker 4: absolutely stunning, and then as you hit the shoreline, you

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Speaker 4: go into this amazing mountain range which goes right up

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Speaker 4: to where we're building a resort in the mountains where

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Speaker 4: you'll be up to ski in the winter. So it

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Speaker 4: actually snows up there, and to give you a sense

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Speaker 4: of that, that's higher than Mount Kosiosco. So within a

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Speaker 4: few hours you go from this remarkable sea up into

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Speaker 4: these beautiful mountains where we're building this kind of resort,

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Speaker 4: and then you go out into the desert, which is

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Speaker 4: the Hizma Desert, which ultimately if you follow it through

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Speaker 4: to the north, hits what I rum in Jordan. So

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Speaker 4: if anyone's seeing those amazing kind of rock formations, very

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Speaker 4: much like Dune the movie, this landscape that is stunning

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Speaker 4: is the best way to say. It's very much open

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Speaker 4: to a lot of movies being filmed there now, so

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Speaker 4: it gives you a little bit of a flavor. But

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Speaker 4: this beautiful kind of desert environment, which we're actually wilding

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Speaker 4: with native Arabian plants and native Arabian animals, which is

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Speaker 4: one of the most remarkable environmental projects on the planet,

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Speaker 4: I would say. And that's just very large beyond that

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Speaker 4: as well, And so in this beautiful part of the world,

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Speaker 4: as I said, the size of Belgium, it's over twenty

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Speaker 4: thousand square kilometers. We are doing two big things. We're

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Speaker 4: building big things. I have to be careful. I'm saying

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Speaker 4: we have no on Carenz of this week there, but

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Speaker 4: we are building very very large projects. So, as I said,

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Speaker 4: the ski resort in the mountain, a highly strategic port

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Speaker 4: operated pretty much with renewable energy and sitting alongside that

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Speaker 4: the world's largest green hydrogen facility which is almost completed,

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Speaker 4: completely powered by renewable energy, exporting green hydrogen to the world.

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Speaker 4: People have seen the line the very significant vertical city

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Speaker 4: to be built over a long period and then ultimately

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Speaker 4: developing the whole kind of region to be a new

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Speaker 4: hub for what is a really big growing population. So

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Speaker 4: that's exciting in the sense that we're building a lot

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Speaker 4: of interesting things, and that's true across the entire country.

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Speaker 4: But I think what's the real story is that it's

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Speaker 4: part of the economic transition of the Kingdom. So to

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Speaker 4: kind of situate it, if you think about the Kingdom

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Speaker 4: of Saudi Arabia and Australia, similar each sized economies, similar

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Speaker 4: rich population, so about thirty six million people in Saudi

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Speaker 4: twenty six million in Australia, and resource based economies in transition.

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Speaker 4: So obviously the Kingdom has had this remarkable economic growth

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Speaker 4: driven predominantly by oil, and under the leadership of the

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Speaker 4: Crown Prince, there's a single national mission for the whole

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Speaker 4: country called Vision twenty thirty, which is all how do

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Speaker 4: we diversify the economy. So obviously oil is a great

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Speaker 4: story for the country. It's created a lot of prosperity,

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Speaker 4: but we want to diversify the economy so that we

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Speaker 4: can hand over in a greater prosperity to the next generation.

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Speaker 2: They're opening up their society.

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Speaker 4: So Saudi was obviously very closeciety and there's very strong

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Speaker 4: goals around creating a vibrant, a vibrant society for all Saudis,

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Speaker 4: and then it's just a very ambitious push to do that,

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Speaker 4: even though they have this long term plan in a

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Speaker 4: very short time. So the country has gone through this

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Speaker 4: remarkable transformation in about the last ten years. And to

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Speaker 4: give you a sense of that, you know, it's one

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Speaker 4: of the fastest growing economies in the G twenty. It's

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Speaker 4: seeing this huge kind of push into non oil industries.

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Speaker 4: So in the last twelve months, you know, about fifty

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Speaker 4: six percent of economic activity was non oil. If you

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Speaker 4: went back a decade, you're almost in single digits. So

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Speaker 4: this huge kind of shift. In the last year, about

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Speaker 4: ninety percent of foreign direct investment into the Kingdom was

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Speaker 4: into non oil industries, and so we're seeing that big transition.

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Speaker 4: And then lay it on top of that is just

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Speaker 4: a remarkable, very young population. So the average age of

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Speaker 4: a Saudi is twenty six, seventy percent of the country's

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Speaker 4: under thirty five, and so that it's opening up to

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Speaker 4: the world. And as they do that, through that diversification

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Speaker 4: of the economy, the country is making big bets in

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Speaker 4: different industries, you know, whether that's in AI or technology

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Speaker 4: or whatever it might be. And I think what's true

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Speaker 4: for Saudi and it's also true for the region, is

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Speaker 4: the sort of starting point is how do you often

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Speaker 4: use technology to address the big challenges facing the globe,

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Speaker 4: whether that's conservation or the environmental creating a business friendly environment,

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Speaker 4: whatever pillar of the economy is sort of focusing on.

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Speaker 4: There's a real leaning into how we use technology disruption

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Speaker 4: in a positive way to help drive that economic transition.

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Speaker 4: And so as that country goes through that change, it's

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Speaker 4: very similar to what we tried to do in Australia

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Speaker 4: around our National Innovation and Science agenda of how do

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Speaker 4: we create these new pillars of economic growth in those industries,

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Speaker 4: and the Kingdom has been remarkably successful in these Vision

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Speaker 4: twenty thirty. There's actually stated goals and objectives as you

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Speaker 4: go and they're basically meeting and beating all of these

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Speaker 4: which no one thought was possible a few short years ago.

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Speaker 1: So as in KPIs KPIs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which is amazing for a nation to have KPIs

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Speaker 4: on these different things over the long term. So we're

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Speaker 4: a header schedule and many of them, we're beating a

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Speaker 4: lot of those targets on many of them. And obviously

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Speaker 4: there's a long way to go, and there's big kind

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Speaker 4: of challenges in doing this, but I think with long

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Speaker 4: term vision met by kind of a national mission, it

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Speaker 4: creates the right ingredients to do something that frankly, I

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Speaker 4: just don't think we've seen in human history or certainly

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Speaker 4: not for a very very long time.

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Speaker 3: And is Saudi Arabia funding all this themselves? Are they

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Speaker 3: attracting lots of investment from around the world.

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Speaker 2: So it's a mixture of both.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's natural when you do this in the

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Speaker 4: first instance, that you'd want to put in a lot

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Speaker 4: of your own kind of capital to start that charge

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Speaker 4: and create the right investment environment and create a magnet

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Speaker 4: for that investment environment. But what we're seeing now is

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Speaker 4: really an explosion of private capital seeking to come into

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Speaker 4: the Kingdom, which is an interesting transition because if you

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Speaker 4: think about the Kingdom, you know, maybe ten years ago,

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Speaker 4: a lot of the world sort of thought of it

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Speaker 4: as almost as an ATM. You know, investors were coming

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Speaker 4: to take money out of the Kingdom. Now investments are

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Speaker 4: coming in their droves to invest into this and it's

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Speaker 4: just a large economy, right, thirty six million people. It's

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Speaker 4: about the Australians, you know, a little bit smaller, but

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Speaker 4: about the size of the Australian economy. And so we're

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Speaker 4: seeing this huge injection of private capital, whether that's through

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Speaker 4: PPP arrangements or just direct investment, and then lay it

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Speaker 4: on top of that, you're just seeing a really high growth,

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Speaker 4: non oil private economy. So, you know, particularly in the

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Speaker 4: area that I'm most familiar with, in the technology sector,

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Speaker 4: big explosion in private venture capital flowing into that into

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Speaker 4: that sector. And you know, there's thousands of startups in

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Speaker 4: the country now raising many hundreds of millions of dollars

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Speaker 4: in some cases that are homegrown. And you're now seeing

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Speaker 4: that real engine of economic activity pick up. And the

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Speaker 4: rest of the world is looking at Saudi and saying,

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Speaker 4: how do we invest in how be that?

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Speaker 3: It's an interesting thing when you talk about the whole region.

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Speaker 3: We hear about Israel and Tel Aviv, the amazing technology

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Speaker 3: hubs that they have there and the big investments that

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Speaker 3: they have in Israel. We hear all the stories about

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Speaker 3: the UAE countries, you know, all the stuff that they're doing,

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Speaker 3: particularly around health technology in relation to Dubai n Abadabi.

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Speaker 1: We don't hear too much in this part of.

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Speaker 3: The world about Saudi Arabia, But Saudi Arabia actually dwarfs

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Speaker 3: all of those places, both physically and economically.

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Speaker 4: Probably correct, but I think absolutely, I think that's true.

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Speaker 4: But the region rises together, you know, this is the

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Speaker 4: kind of change. So President Trump was here, you know,

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Speaker 4: a few months ago, and it was this incredible triple

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Speaker 4: was fortunate to sort of be in the room with him,

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Speaker 4: and you had sort of the CEO is the biggest

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Speaker 4: every if you could think of a big company on

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Speaker 4: the planet. Basically they're in the room with the President

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Speaker 4: and the Crown Prince. And when he was talking about

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Speaker 4: his vision for the region, he had one thing that

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Speaker 4: I think really resonated with the which is the new

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Speaker 4: model of the Middle East. And I think the Middle

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Speaker 4: East has such a difficult history. People just come to

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Speaker 4: it with those kind of biases. But the new Middle

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Speaker 4: East is one that's defined by commerce, not case, and

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Speaker 4: that's actually what we're seeing. We're seeing this huge influx

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Speaker 4: of talented people of capital and obviously just a booming

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Speaker 4: local population redefine the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: And as they all kind of rise, they all benefit.

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Speaker 4: But you're right, Saudi is by far the biggest kind

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Speaker 4: of economy out of the region because it's just a

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Speaker 4: bigger population, a bigger country, and going through a bigger transformation.

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Speaker 4: But those benefits are being shared very much across the region,

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Speaker 4: and I think if you take a twenty thirty forty

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Speaker 4: year of view, which is the beauty of this place,

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Speaker 4: you can do that. I think this really becomes one

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Speaker 4: of the hubs of the globe. The Crown Prince has

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Speaker 4: this saying which I completely agree with him on, where

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Speaker 4: he says Saudi Arabia is the most exciting story of

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Speaker 4: the twenty first century, just the revolution that we've seen

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Speaker 4: in the last ten years. I think he is completely right,

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Speaker 4: and to your point, it's an often untold story, but

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Speaker 4: it's one that more and more I think the world

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Speaker 4: is waking up to. And I think that's a great

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Speaker 4: thing for this country, but I think it's a great

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Speaker 4: thing for the world as well.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting that you just said You're in the room

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Speaker 3: with Trump, any and every CEO of every major company

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Speaker 3: in the world, the Crown Prince and all his entourage

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 1: You're in your mid thirties. White Roy is always for.

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Speaker 3: Some reason, you know, I've known you for a long time.

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Speaker 3: For some reason, You've always seem to be able to

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Speaker 3: be in the company of people who influence outcomes, new outcomes, change,

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Speaker 3: especially change, And I go.

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Speaker 1: Back to White Roy.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's go back really a long way. We're talking

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Speaker 3: about White Roy. He's a young kid from Queensland. Tell

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Speaker 3: me a little bit about your story, like, hawd you

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Speaker 3: grow up, what was your dad doing, your mum, etc.

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Speaker 4: Read is a long way from the strawberry farm that

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Speaker 4: I grew up in, totally pleaseland. But I am so

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Speaker 4: proud of where I came from and I'm very lucky

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Speaker 4: to kind of have that grounding in life. So I

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Speaker 4: grew up on a strawberry farm in Queensland. I'm the

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Speaker 4: first person in my family to finish high school. Brother

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Speaker 4: went on to other things, which I love, but everyone

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Speaker 4: in my family went to either grade nine or grade ten.

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Speaker 4: And my dad, who sadly passed away this year, he

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Speaker 4: had this saying where he was so good at grade

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Speaker 4: nine they asked him to do it twice and then

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Speaker 4: he left and obviously went into the farm. So my

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Speaker 4: family were initially citrus farmers and then strawberry farmers. At

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Speaker 4: our peak, we had about a million strawberry plants, so

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Speaker 4: it was a great way to kind of grow up.

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Speaker 4: I grew up on the sunny coast, so you're sort

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Speaker 4: of close enough to Brisbane, but then you've got the

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Speaker 4: grounding of the farm. We had a lot of backpackers

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Speaker 4: from all over the world working on the farm, so

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Speaker 4: you've got early exposure to interesting people. And I always

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Speaker 4: say farming, whether it's politics or business, there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of lessons that you learned from farming that I think

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Speaker 4: can be applied because you know, it's super high risk.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that are out of your control.

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Speaker 4: You know, you don't know if it's going to rain

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Speaker 4: or not, you don't know what can kind of happen,

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Speaker 4: and so farmers have this, you know, I think they're

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Speaker 4: the most amazing kind of entrepreneurs.

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Speaker 2: No same person would go into farming, right.

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Speaker 4: It's tough at Haart, It's all these sorts of things,

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Speaker 4: so that was the kind of environment that I grew

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Speaker 4: up in and then and then I got into politics

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Speaker 4: at a very young age. I think I'm one obviof

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Speaker 4: not the youngest directly elected person in the world.

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Speaker 2: And then I was obviously the youngest minister as well.

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Speaker 4: So I was a campaigning for parliament when I was nineteen,

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Speaker 4: elected when I was twenty, and minister when I was

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Speaker 4: twenty five. So you know, an amazing kind of experience

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Speaker 4: and then you know, lots of journey in life after that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But you also, as I recall, were part of Malcolm

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Speaker 3: Turnbull's Innovation Nation sort of game. That was something he

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Speaker 3: wanted Australia to be, which you know, unfortunately didn't work

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Speaker 3: out in the end through for Holloas. But what was

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Speaker 3: it like and what spark of an idea did you

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Speaker 3: get from Malcolm turbul during that period as one of

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Speaker 3: his ministers in such what seemed to me at the

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Speaker 3: time a really ambitious program for Australia.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I wish we had done.

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Speaker 4: It, yeah, And I think the politics of it is

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Speaker 4: really hard in Australia and that is what is so

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Speaker 4: different here. I think with a young, young population and

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Speaker 4: opening up. There's just a natural kind of acceptance of

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Speaker 4: this is what we should do. But in the Australian context,

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Speaker 4: if you think about it, it's very similar to the

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Speaker 4: Saudi story. I mean, we had a resource based economy

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Speaker 4: for a very long time, hugely successful. We had more

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Speaker 4: than a quarter of a century of uninterrupted economic growth.

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Speaker 4: So that's a good thing, and that was driven by

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Speaker 4: lots of things, but predominantly by you know, we have

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Speaker 4: rocks in the ground and we live close to people

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Speaker 4: that want to buy them, which which is a great thing.

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Speaker 2: We're very lucky in that sense.

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Speaker 4: But when I became involved in politics and was in

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Speaker 4: the Parliament, I quickly realized that there were a lot

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Speaker 4: of young Australian entrepreneurs at that time now we're going

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Speaker 4: back more than ten years, who as soon as their

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Speaker 4: business has sort of got successful, they left the country.

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Speaker 4: You know, they went to the US, they went to Singapore,

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Speaker 4: they went wherever, which in some cases is okay because

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Speaker 4: you know, you want them to get access to a

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Speaker 4: global market and capital, but you want them to come

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Speaker 4: back and contribute to the economy, and you want to

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Speaker 4: keep that base there to really create this pillar of

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Speaker 4: the economy and so I took a real interest in

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Speaker 4: that space. Malcolm obviously has a huge amount of passion

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Speaker 4: and ambition and vision in that space for the country.

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Speaker 4: And I would push back because on the policy front

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Speaker 4: we were actually quite successful, but the politics is very hard.

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Speaker 4: So if you think about it practically, what we did

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Speaker 4: was we said ten years ago, we've got this huge

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Speaker 4: economic success and engine in resources. If we're going to

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Speaker 4: hand over to the next generation of Australians a country

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Speaker 4: with more prosperity, then we do have to diversify the

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Speaker 4: economy and create a new pillar of the economy, much

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Speaker 4: like here. And so my baby was what we called,

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Speaker 4: as you kind of pointed out, the National Innovation and

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Speaker 4: Science Agenda. So it was a single push across government

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Speaker 4: to create the framework for the privates to take over.

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Speaker 4: So it's twenty four policies across nine government departments. I

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Speaker 4: think everything from tax changes, visa changes, education, research and development, etc.

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Speaker 4: Really modeling on best practice across the globe, sort of

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Speaker 4: frankly stealing some of the best ideas from these great

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Speaker 4: innovation hubs. Now, while the politics has been difficult, the

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Speaker 4: policy outcome I think is overlooked a little bit, and

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Speaker 4: I would sort of argue the point mark in ten years,

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Speaker 4: we've gone from a situation where, you know, before I

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Speaker 4: was Minister, we're investing less than two hundred million in

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Speaker 4: venture capital. That's less than we bet on the Melbourne Cup,

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Speaker 4: which gives them a sense of like, you know, either

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Speaker 4: Australian's bet a lot or we just weren't.

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Speaker 2: Putting much into this sector.

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Speaker 4: You couldn't really measure it in terms of impact to

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Speaker 4: GDP or jobs. And in ten years now, today tech

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Speaker 4: and innovation is the third biggest contributor to the Australian

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Speaker 4: economy mining financial services. Then tech and innovation is the

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Speaker 4: seventh biggest employer in the country and it's the fast

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Speaker 4: just growing jobs growth industry. So if you actually look

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Speaker 4: at the employment figures, you know, for the last significant period,

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Speaker 4: overwhelmingly the job's growth has come from growth within the

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Speaker 4: technology and innovation sector in the country. We've seen over

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Speaker 4: thirty billion dollars of private capital private capital flow into

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Speaker 4: venture capital in that period, so from two hundred million,

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Speaker 4: we've seen over thirty billion flow fly in and so

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Speaker 4: you know, there's a.

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Speaker 2: Long way to go.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot more reform that I would have liked

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Speaker 4: to have seen happen. But the truth is from that

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Speaker 4: early push, it's now a powerhouse of the Australian economy.

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Speaker 4: I mean as a country, we've built over twenty unicorn companies,

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Speaker 4: you know, some of them with really significant valuations. There's

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Speaker 4: over one hundred companies in Australia that have over one

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Speaker 4: hundred million dollar valuation in tech and innovation, and so

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Speaker 4: it is creating national prosperity. It is employing millions of Australians.

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Speaker 4: We're actually on track to have one point two million

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Speaker 4: Australians working in the sector.

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Speaker 2: By twenty thirty.

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Speaker 4: And so I know why we love to sort of

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Speaker 4: talk ourselves down as a country, but if you look

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Speaker 4: at it on a per capita basis, Australia is punching

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Speaker 4: way above its weight. We now have this new pillar

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Speaker 4: of economic strength and ultimately what that will mean is

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Speaker 4: the next generation of Australians and just going to enjoy

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Speaker 4: more economic prosperity and have more opportunity. Now that went

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Speaker 4: out of vogue politically, and I'd love to see that

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Speaker 4: energy come back. I'd love to see a little bit

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Speaker 4: of what we see in Saudi Arafia actually where we're

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Speaker 4: saying this is really important. But we should be proud

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Speaker 4: of what we've done as a country because you know,

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Speaker 4: these incredible entrepreneurs and investors and researchers and scientists have

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Speaker 4: changed the Australian economy in the last ten years. And

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Speaker 4: I think what we did was we created the framework

439
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 4: for them to do that.

440
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 1: Now.

441
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 4: You know, as a small government person, I'm happy when

442
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 4: government gets out of the way and they take over.

443
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 4: But I don't think we should lose that emphasis as

444
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 4: a nation.

445
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm going to ask you to come back

446
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 3: and come for politics again, mate, but like maybe your

447
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 3: your your new venture.

448
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 4: Actually here, Mark, I got to tell you, I do

449
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 4: like maybe if you come into politics with me, I'll

450
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 4: consider it.

451
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, don't worry. Maybe maybe we both have to.

452
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 3: Because what's really interesting when you talk about technology or

453
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 3: innovation generally and entrepreneurs. One of the things you touched

454
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 3: on earlier was a lot of Australians have left the

455
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 3: shores in order to try and be successful.

456
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: What I noticed.

457
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: What I noticed about people who go to Singapore, people

458
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 3: who go to the Middle East, and people go to

459
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 3: the US, they're either chasing one or two one or

460
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 3: two things or both they're either chasing capital, which where

461
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 3: you are it's in abundance, not just Saudi money, but

462
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 3: just money coming into Saudi looking for innovation to invest

463
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 3: in innovation, or they're trying to find a better tax

464
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 3: environment for innovation around innovation. Well, now, whether that's some

465
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 3: R and D right off or whatever the case may be, citizenship,

466
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. Singapore does a great job at it.

467
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: They're either chasing one or tour both. Saudi seems to

468
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 3: have nailed both because, as I understand, you've got either

469
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: zero tax base or very low text based in Saudi

470
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 3: Arabia and there's plenty of capital.

471
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: How important do you think that is? Because you said

472
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: there's a lot.

473
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 3: Of money now finding a way to Saudi Arabia. How

474
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 3: important is that for investors coming into Saudi apart from

475
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 3: the transition game that you've been talking about.

476
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if you look at the great kind

477
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 4: of innovation economies around the world, whether that's the US

478
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 4: or Singapore or you know, other parts of the Middle East,

479
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 4: but particularly when you look at a per capita basis,

480
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 4: I think this is what policy makers or other people

481
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 4: sometimes think. You don't forget, is you know, the US

482
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,719
Speaker 4: is remarkable because of skate. If you're the biggest economy

483
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 4: in the world, you're three hundred and eighty million people

484
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 4: and you're zero zero point five percent of that does well,

485
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 4: then it looks big by its very nature. But if

486
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 4: you do it on a per capita basis, I think

487
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 4: there are key ingredients to developing the innovation economy.

488
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 2: So I think you're right on capital.

489
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 4: I think it's access to capital, but I also think

490
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 4: it's the skill set to deploy that capital the right way.

491
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 4: That's actually kind of the hard part you often find. So,

492
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 4: you know, what we've seen is this huge relocation from

493
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 4: across the globe are sort of the best funds. But

494
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 4: forget the capital for a second. It's the people who

495
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 4: know how to deploy capital. They know how to pick

496
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 4: the winners or pick the companies that are going to

497
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 4: change the world. And so that talent has really moved

498
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 4: into the region and it's also developing locally, which is

499
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 4: really kind of powerful. And then obviously with that you

500
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 4: have to have an advantageous tax environment. That's some of

501
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 4: the big reform. I think that's frankly probably the biggest

502
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 4: reform that we did in the Australian context is we said, look,

503
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 4: if you invest into this area, it is more risky, right,

504
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: but its very nature tech and innovation is a more

505
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 4: risky kind of investment. But when you do well, you

506
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 4: do well by a very large margin. So you have

507
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 4: to make a number of investments. Not all of them work,

508
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 4: but when you win, you really have a big return.

509
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 4: And we created a tax environment which is very similar

510
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 4: to here, which says we're not going to penalize you

511
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 4: for that, We're actually going to incentivize it. And what

512
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 4: we saw in the Australian context, and I think what

513
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 4: we are seeing here is a kind of a building

514
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 4: of critical mass. So the first thing that happened, and

515
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 4: this is absolutely what is happening here, is the family officers.

516
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 4: So you know, private wealthy people, they saw a tax

517
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 4: through you know, maybe they made money in infrastructure or

518
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: real estate or mining, more conservative industries. They saw a

519
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: reason to deploy a bit of their capital into this space.

520
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 4: Maybe not all of it, but you know, a percentage.

521
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 4: And then as they had success and as companies started

522
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 4: to exit, then you saw more institutional capital flow into

523
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 4: that as well. And now in the Australian context, the

524
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 4: super funds are backing many of the large VC funds.

525
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 4: I think here you're seeing the same thing. So you're

526
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 4: seeing the early investors of the family officers. Then you're

527
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 4: seeing predominantly government funds, which are sort of fund to

528
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 4: fund type models, which is really good because that's driving

529
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 4: in that private capital and then more institutional money, whether

530
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 4: that's at the sovereign wealth level or sort of pension

531
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 4: funds across the globe. And so that's building critical mass

532
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 4: here and that then gets a total life of its own.

533
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 4: And as you have the sort of the success and

534
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 4: the exits, then it becomes self fulfilling because you know,

535
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 4: when you have the exits, either the investors are creating

536
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 4: new funds or the founders are creating their own funds

537
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 4: or new companies. And then you know, the first you know,

538
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 4: ten employees of a company that's had a bi exit,

539
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 4: they either create a fund or a new company. And

540
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 4: so I think people, you know, in the Australian context,

541
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 4: how we went from two hundred million to over thirty billion,

542
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 4: It wasn't linear, you know, built up with that those

543
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 4: big whas in those moments when you had success, and

544
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 4: that's happening in the region just to give you a

545
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 4: sense of this, I think this is like an incredible

546
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 4: stat So in the last twelve months, the country that

547
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 4: has lost the highest number of millionaires is the United

548
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 4: Kingdom in raw numbers, So the UK has lost something

549
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 4: like sixteen and a half thousand millionaires in the last

550
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 4: twelve months. To put that into context, China, which is

551
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 4: one point four billion, I think lost about eleven or

552
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 4: twelve thousand millionaires. And of the sixteen and a half

553
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: thousand millionaires from the UK, seventy percent of them have

554
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 4: relocated to the Middle East. So what that means is

555
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 4: you're actually seeing a transfer of talent capital, you know,

556
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 4: employment opportunities, and locally that's developing as well, and that

557
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 4: is just such a key ingredient in this Now there

558
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 4: are other ingredients, and you know we can unpick them,

559
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 4: but I think on the capital front, you know, it's

560
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 4: frankically pretty hard to raise capital around the world. You know,

561
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 4: the VC environment in Saudi you know, basically in a

562
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 4: six month period basically doubled. So you know, there is

563
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: real access to capital here. Now it's smart money. They're

564
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 4: making right investments, and people shouldn't treat the country as

565
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 4: a as an ATM. But there are real investible opportunities here,

566
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 4: you know, backing incredible founders and entrepreneurs and incredible commercialization

567
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 4: of technology. And when you combine that with what we're

568
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 4: seeing in the region, you know, it's changing the face

569
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: of of not just this region but the planet.

570
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 3: So when you say that, and you made a really

571
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 3: important point. Money is one thing. You've got to get

572
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 3: somebody who knows how to deploy the money into the

573
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 3: right investments. Otherwise you get a dud fund and those people,

574
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: the people who are investing in the fund, stop investing

575
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: in the fund, so that stops the flower capital.

576
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: So is are these.

577
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 3: Individuals who are coming into Saudi to invest money into

578
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 3: perhaps the region you're in now and or Saudi yourself

579
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: in particular. Are those homegrown people? Are those homegrown investors

580
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 3: or are they people?

581
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: Who they are? They Saudi?

582
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 3: Young Saudi people who have gone to America become engineers

583
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: and got experience that, you know, one of the big

584
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: funds over there and come back to Saudi.

585
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: Who are they? Where they coming from?

586
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 4: So it's both and I think both is really really important.

587
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 4: So you and it's kind of the Singaporean model. You know,

588
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 4: if you think about if you go back with Singapore.

589
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 4: One of the key things that they did was, look,

590
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 4: we'll attract the best and brightest from anywhere in the

591
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 4: world and we'll develop our own, our own populace over time.

592
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 4: And so one, yes, you're absolutely seeing is influx of entrepreneurs,

593
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 4: of investors, of research and scientists into the region. But

594
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 4: you're also seeing this homegrown ecosystem development.

595
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: Just give you a sense.

596
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 4: One of my good mates, he has a company called Uniphonic,

597
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 4: which is effectively a communications platform for large corporations. Born

598
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 4: in the Eastern the founder was born in the Eastern

599
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 4: province in Saudi never actually kind of left. This tech

600
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 4: company has exploded. He's just raised over one hundred million

601
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 4: dollars from SoftBank. Now soft Bank are not idiots that

602
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 4: they are backing a hundred million dollar homegrown Saudi, incredible

603
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 4: high growth company. You go to his offices here in

604
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 4: Reart and you could be walking into any office that

605
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 4: you're walking into San Francisco.

606
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: So you're seeing the mix.

607
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 4: But I think what's also a real strength here is

608
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 4: the kingdom had this remarkable reform where they offered extremely

609
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 4: generous scholarships for young Saudis to study around the world.

610
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 4: So it actually reminds me a bit of the New

611
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 4: Colombo Plan in Australia where we did this with Asia,

612
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 4: but they do it globally, so you know, very young

613
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 4: population and a lot of them have studied in Australia,

614
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 4: in the US, in Europe, and as the country has changed,

615
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 4: they're coming back in droves. So this was the Australian

616
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,239
Speaker 4: story that I was telling you, like, this is the

617
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 4: moment to kind of get this right because of the

618
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 4: change that we're seeing. And I think young Saudis are

619
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 4: just rightfully very patriotic. I mean, this is an amazing

620
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 4: country and they're proud to say that they're from Saudi.

621
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 4: They're coming home and starting these these industries, and I

622
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 4: think that's that's really special when you combine it with

623
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 4: the talent across the world. And I think it's kind

624
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 4: of similar to what we saw in Singapore over a

625
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 4: longer period.

626
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: But for all of that.

627
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 4: To be happening in such a short period, it is transformational.

628
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: But do you think the Crown Prince has since the

629
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: Crown Prince has sort of been running the show, is

630
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: that a sort of a bit of a transition. It's

631
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: in itself like a change in attitude, and that is

632
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: the very thing that young Sioudy has become very proud

633
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: to be.

634
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: Call themselveless out he I mean, is there something going

635
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: on there?

636
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he is one of the most remarkable

637
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: leaders of our time. Look, I'm biased. I went into

638
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 4: politics at a young age. You know, he and I

639
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: were young ministers at the same time together. But he,

640
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 4: I mean, he's obviously this remarkable leader of the country.

641
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 4: I think if you think about global leadership, what really

642
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 4: kind of lets us down is the lack of long

643
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 4: term vision. You know, in the Australian context, you know,

644
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 4: elections every three years, it's.

645
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: Often it's shorter than that.

646
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 4: You know, I think we debate very small things sometimes

647
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 4: in the country that is frustrating. The Crown Prince is forty,

648
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,959
Speaker 4: so the idea of him, you know, leading the country

649
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 4: for decades to come is a huge asset because you

650
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 4: are actually thinking about how do I have a long

651
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 4: term vision, how do I make the decisions that will

652
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 4: enable the change that needs to happen in the country,

653
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 4: and you just get on with execution. So the whole

654
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 4: mind that goes to how do you execute? And so

655
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 4: I think, you know, young Saudi's are rightfully, very proud

656
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 4: of the leadership that they have. They see a lot

657
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 4: of themselves in that and it's just not very often

658
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 4: in history that you get that opportunity, and that is

659
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 4: what has happened. And I think the change that we've

660
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 4: seen in the country is completely down to him. And

661
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 4: I think, you know, sometimes in history you get lucky,

662
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: you know, you find the right leader in the right time,

663
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 4: and that creates these transformational moments.

664
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: And that's what we have here in the Kingdom.

665
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 4: And I know for the next you know, twenty thirty

666
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 4: forty years, this place will just keep delivering and keep

667
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 4: heading towards that. Now, change is hard, you know, ambition

668
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 4: and reality have to come together, and that's the kind

669
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 4: of that's the exciting moment, right when you get ambition

670
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,479
Speaker 4: and reality to come together. But you know, as a result,

671
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 4: we're building this really vibrant society here that's opening to

672
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 4: the world. We're building this thriving economy that's creating tons

673
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 4: of prosperity, and we're doing it on the back of

674
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: being really ambitious about what this country can be and

675
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 4: how it can contribute to the world.

676
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: And that comes from the top.

677
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: It's interesting to hear someone like you talk about leadership

678
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: because you know you've sat directly underneath let's call it

679
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: great leaders or leaders of our nation in particular, and

680
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: inspirational leaders, leaders with great vision. You're and you're now

681
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: with the Crown Prince. You just mentioned you've met Trump

682
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 3: et cetera. And I got asked this question today and

683
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: actually I've got this asked this question by Stewart Airs

684
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: at a New South Wales government sort of event. Stewart says,

685
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: the salo by the way, because I told you, and

686
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: let's go through the podcast. That's good, yeah, yeah, correct.

687
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: But he asked me a question about courage and leadership

688
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: and to some extent, our Australian leaders today, whether it's

689
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: a state or federal being accused of lacking courage. But

690
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: leadership's a lot leaderships or courage within leadership sometimes sometimes

691
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 3: is constrained because of what's going on in the place.

692
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: And my response to him is, well, you know, the

693
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: Labor Party is broad Church federally.

694
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 3: I'm talking about now broad church of people that have

695
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: to satisfy sometimes means I don't make a decision because

696
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: I don't want to dissatisfy everybody who's voted me in.

697
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: And if you're the leader of those people who voted

698
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: you in, your role is to make sure that they're

699
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: not unhappy as opposed to being happy. And that becomes

700
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 3: a constraint in terms of courage. And some people might

701
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: interpret that as lacking courage, but I don't think that means.

702
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: That they lack courage.

703
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 3: It's easier to be courageous when you're only forty, for example,

704
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 3: and you've got you may you know, you consider above

705
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 3: the decisions, so to speak, and the decisions and you're

706
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: not getting voted in every three years. What do you

707
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: think about that? Because you're obviously reflecting on Australia all

708
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 3: the time, you're still very interested in what goes on

709
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 3: in this country. What do you think about that concept

710
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 3: of today courage and leadership in Australia on our shores?

711
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I am.

712
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: You know.

713
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 4: When I think about it, I always think we should

714
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 4: talk about how good politics can be. Like, I don't

715
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 4: understand why why would you want to be in politics

716
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 4: if you're not there to do something big and not

717
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 4: there to change the country.

718
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: I don't understand it.

719
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 4: I literally don't understand it and there are a lot

720
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 4: of really good people in politics who are very talented,

721
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 4: who want to make a big difference. But there's also

722
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 4: a lot of people who I just sit there and

723
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 4: I share your kind of frustration where I think, you know,

724
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 4: we are so lucky. I mean, you know, a former

725
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 4: leader of my party said, you sort of win the

726
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: lottery of life if you're in Australian and you know,

727
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 4: we are so lucky to be in this incredible nation,

728
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 4: but we have no sense of what our nation can

729
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 4: be on the world stage and how we can you know,

730
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 4: contribute to the world and frankly, how our country can

731
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 4: be more prosperous. And the truth is the world is

732
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 4: changing at an incredibly fast rate, Like I mean, the

733
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 4: thing that defines our time is changed, right, whether that's

734
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 4: globalization or technology or whatever it might be. We're seeing

735
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 4: as huge disruption in the world. And courageous leadership says

736
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 4: there is opportunity and change. You know, there is real

737
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 4: opportunity if we seize that and we try and you know,

738
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 4: make that change our friend and drive that transition.

739
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: I think week leadership is.

740
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 4: When you try and hide under the doners and inoculate

741
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 4: yourself from that, and you also, I think sell a

742
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 4: fantasy to people. And I think it doesn't respect the

743
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 4: intelligence of the Australian people to say, actually, it's all okay,

744
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 4: we're just going to sort of, you know, hide from

745
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 4: this and we're going to do you know, we're going

746
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 4: to be boring managers. Is the best way of kind

747
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 4: of putting it. Do little menial changes. I mean you

748
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 4: and I both know. I mean, Australia is an incredible nation,

749
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 4: but it needs big reform. I mean, we have a

750
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 4: huge productivity problem. We do need to diversify our economy more.

751
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 4: There is a lot that we can do to create

752
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 4: greater prosperity, to seize those exciting opportunities and frankly, just

753
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: set us up to succeed in a changing world. And

754
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 4: I don't see, as you would say, the courage anywhere

755
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 4: in the political spectrum at the moment of people saying

756
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 4: these are the big changes that we want to do.

757
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 4: And now the reason is, I think because the nature

758
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 4: of politics has changed. So you know, it's very easy

759
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 4: for people to complain and have very loud voices, and

760
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 4: I think weak politicians weaponize that right, so you know,

761
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 4: they're very instinctively running to how do we attack an

762
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 4: idea and tear it down? And if you make change,

763
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 4: there's always going to be winners and losers, right, that's

764
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 4: just the nature of change. And you could have the

765
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 4: smallest percentage of people who lose a small amount from

766
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 4: a really important reform, but in the modern political environment

767
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 4: you can give them a huge microphone to attack that,

768
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 4: and so politicians very naturally get afraid. The easiest thing

769
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 4: to do in the Australian context, to be popular is

770
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 4: do nothing, like all the incentives that are actually to do nothing.

771
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 4: That's the sort of leadership that we think that we want. Now,

772
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 4: I would argue, and maybe it's naive optimism, and maybe

773
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 4: I'm wrong, but I passionately believe that if we had

774
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 4: courageous leadership that was honest with the Australian people and said, look,

775
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 4: these are the challenges we face us a nation. Here's

776
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 4: all the different options of what we can do, and

777
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 4: let's debate them. Let's have a content test of ideas.

778
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 4: Let's see where we can find as much consensus as

779
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 4: possible and just do that and where there's you know,

780
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 4: a real point of contest, Well, this is the vision

781
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: for the country, and we're going to put it to

782
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 4: the Australian people, I think, and then you actually change

783
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 4: the country for the better. I think if you did

784
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 4: that in an election, you'd probably still win fifty one

785
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 4: percent of the vote. Now you would see all these

786
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 4: big scare campaigns, you would see people attacking it, but

787
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 4: you would change the country for the better, and you

788
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 4: can set up the country for you know, the next generation,

789
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 4: for the next thirty forty fifty years. But for whatever reason,

790
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 4: I don't see that, and I think it's just because

791
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 4: the incentives in the system are always about much easier

792
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 4: to do nothing and play at the margins.

793
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's worse.

794
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 4: It's not even to do nothing, it's to tell people

795
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 4: a lie, which is to say, actually it's all fine

796
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 4: and we've got you know, there's nothing to do. I mean,

797
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 4: that's just just look at productivity, look at living standards,

798
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 4: look at you know, the number of these factors across

799
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 4: the economy. Australia is a great country, but we can

800
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 4: always be better and you do need that courageous leadership,

801
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 4: I think to set the country up for long term success,

802
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 4: and our current crop of leaders I don't see anyone

803
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 4: really engaging in that debate, and it saddens me because

804
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 4: I think, you know, if you and I went out

805
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 4: and spoke to the business community, you and I both

806
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 4: know what the ten things are that the country needs

807
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 4: to do, and we could debate it, you know, plus

808
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 4: and minus a little bit. But who's talking about tax

809
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 4: reform in Australia. Who's talking about federation reform, who's talking

810
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 4: about industrial relations reform. These are all the things that

811
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 4: we need to do to set up the country, and

812
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 4: if we don't, we're just going to have lower living standards,

813
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 4: We're going to have less prosperity. We've got an aging

814
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 4: of the population in the country, so you know, in

815
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia there's this huge benefit of having a young population.

816
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 4: You know in one intergenerational report. In these train context,

817
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 4: we're going from a place of about five Australians working

818
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 4: for every person who wasn't by twenty fifty, that's going

819
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 4: to be about two and a half twenty fifty. How

820
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 4: do we pay for our social services system? How do

821
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 4: we You have to grow the economy, you have to

822
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 4: have a more productive economy. And I think the lack

823
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 4: of courage that you spoke about all that results in

824
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,479
Speaker 4: is sure governments might get re elected by not doing

825
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 4: very much. But I'll tell you what, how kids are

826
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 4: going to grow up in a country with less prosperity.

827
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 4: And I think ultimately someone has to say this is

828
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: what we need to do as a country.

829
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: But I think it.

830
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: Goes back to that point you're making earlier on where

831
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 3: the advantages are someone like Saudi has and by the way,

832
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 3: places like Singapore have too.

833
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: They don't think in short termism. We think in short termism, and.

834
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, whether we like not,

835
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: the politicians make the decisions as to how we approach

836
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 3: our economy, how we approach our life, how we approach

837
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 3: out by the way our stand living or improving ours

838
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 3: stand living. Australia when it comes to resources, like Saudi,

839
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: but Australia when it comes to resource We've got every

840
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 3: resource you want to know about. There's everything, there's the

841
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 3: whole Our standard of living, in other words, wealth per

842
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,479
Speaker 3: capita should be one of the best in the world.

843
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: When I look at Qatar, I don't understand why.

844
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: I mean, it's as much small a country, But when

845
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 3: I look at guitar relative to the gas that they

846
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 3: produce in Australia is like number two in the world

847
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 3: when it comes to gas resources. Why are we in

848
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 3: that same sort of category. I just don't get it.

849
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 3: And you're in the region, So what do you think

850
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 3: it is that your region does that Australians?

851
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: Is it us? Is it the voting and we too apathetic?

852
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: Is that us?

853
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: You know?

854
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 4: Like I think there is a bit of apathy, of course.

855
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 4: I mean we have huge strengths. I mean, compoxily voting

856
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 4: for examples, is I think one of the best systems

857
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 4: in the world and I completely have changed my mind

858
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 4: to that. So there are institutional strengths in the country.

859
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 4: And I don't want to talk the country down too much,

860
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 4: but I think we are missing our moment, you know.

861
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 4: I think this part of the world has a really

862
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 4: clear sense of history. They're very naturally proud of who

863
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 4: they are, but what they can be. They know that

864
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 4: change has to happen. They embrace change, right, This is

865
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 4: what I was talking about. And I think maybe it

866
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 4: is also because of just young populations. I think, you know,

867
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 4: younger people are inherently more you know, realistic and aware

868
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 4: of the need for change and reform. And just because

869
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 4: the world we grew up in has been defined by change, right,

870
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 4: So it's a different generational element to that. And I

871
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 4: think they are seizing their moment. And they're also just

872
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 4: not afraid to try big things and fail along the way.

873
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 4: You know, the Australian appetite for failure is so low.

874
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 4: You know, we might rather do nothing and not do something,

875
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 4: then try and do something and fail along the way. Now,

876
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 4: you know, it doesn't matter whether you're in business or

877
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 4: in government. The truth is not everything's going to work.

878
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 4: And it's a pretty hard thing for a politician in

879
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: the Australian context to say, look, we're going to try

880
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 4: and do these ten big things. If they don't work,

881
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 4: we'll stop doing it. If there's a better idea somewhere

882
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 4: in the world, will steal it. If we can improve something,

883
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 4: will improve it. Now you get kind of crucified in

884
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 4: Australia if you say that, But that's actually the kind

885
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 4: of leadership that you need. And I think that's the

886
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 4: leadership that we have here where they're not afraid of,

887
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 4: you know, understanding the moment, making the big bet, trying

888
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 4: to make a change, and then if something needs to

889
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 4: be moved around, then they absolutely do that and I

890
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 4: think that, you know, overwhelmingly, you know, there's huge support

891
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 4: for that kind of leadership because it is changing changing

892
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 4: the face of this region. In the Australian context, we're

893
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 4: just much more comfortable to sort of not have a go.

894
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 4: I mean we love to say Australians love to have

895
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 4: a go. Well, our political leaders do not like to

896
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 4: have a go. And I think that you know that

897
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 4: it wasn't always the case. You know, if you think

898
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 4: about in Australia in itself was a massive project, right,

899
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 4: it's sort of how do we how to create a

900
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 4: nation out of sending convicts to the other side of

901
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 4: the world. And that's a remarkable moment. Think about the

902
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 4: Sydney Harbor Bridge, you know, designed in the earliest parts,

903
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 4: you know by Bradfield in the earliest part of the

904
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 4: twentieth century. It's eight lanes. Back then, you know, it

905
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 4: had the train on it. I mean, cars weren't really

906
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 4: a thing. There was nothing kind of on the north

907
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 4: side of Sydney. People said, that's what we have to do,

908
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 4: you know, the Snowy hydro scheme. I mean the Australians said,

909
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: we're going to do the Snowy Hydro scheme. People said

910
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 4: it was impossible. Imagine if you tried to announce doing

911
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: a new version of Snowy Hydro like today, you'd get

912
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 4: people would say, no, it's all too hard, it's impossible.

913
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 4: What did that project do well? It completely transformed our nation.

914
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 4: It brought people from all over the world to be

915
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 4: part of it, which changed our society for the better.

916
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 4: And you know, we have had that visionary leadership. That's

917
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 4: the sort of visionary leadership I think we see here.

918
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 4: There's no reason why we can't go back to that.

919
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 4: There's no reason why a leader couldn't go out there

920
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 4: and say that. Today now weaker politicians would attack that

921
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 4: kind of leadership and create fear campaigns. But I do

922
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 4: think if you had that, there's a really good chance

923
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 4: that you'd still win. You might not win eighty percent

924
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 4: of the vote, but you only need fifty one percent

925
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 4: to win, and then you can change the country. And

926
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, it just saddens me that that's not

927
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 4: what we see today, but I'm optimistic that that might

928
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 4: change one day.

929
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: So when you say that these decisions, policies, and visions

930
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 3: are well supported, obviously you're talking about the people within

931
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: the country.

932
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: And I agree with you.

933
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 3: Younger people tend to support change much more than older

934
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 3: people because older people get become comfortable, they don't want change,

935
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 3: They just get used to doing, to doing stuff, and

936
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: they trust and then become familiar with always done. Younger

937
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 3: people are sort of up for whatever's going to happen.

938
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: But what about the media. Do they have a media

939
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 3: in Saudi Arabia and how does that work? What does

940
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: it like to have a media in a place like

941
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 3: it is?

942
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 4: Actually, yeah, there's actually quite a vibrant media across the country.

943
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: Now, across the world, we're seeing.

944
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 4: Huge disruption to the media industry, and you're in it,

945
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 4: you understand it better than most. But I think, you know,

946
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 4: if you roll back twenty years ago, the way that

947
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 4: people would consume information is, you know, effectively a media

948
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 4: outlet that is owned by a very small number of people,

949
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 4: whether that's a newspaper or radio or TV station. What

950
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 4: we've seen is this now, you know, Saudi has, you know,

951
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 4: a vibrant kind of media environment. There's national newspapers led

952
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 4: by really impressive editors. NBC is the biggest sort of

953
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 4: media conglomerate. To put it the best way in the region.

954
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 4: Which is headed by Mike Steesby, who used to be

955
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 4: the CEO of nine, another great Australian in the region.

956
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 4: But I think the really interesting thing about media here

957
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: is is with such a young population, it is just

958
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 4: huge consumption of media through different formats in social media,

959
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 4: and as a fellow podcaster, I think, you know, there

960
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 4: are a lot of really great young Saudis who are

961
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 4: having these great podcasts which are really vibrant. You know,

962
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 4: there's a real kind of debate and contest of ideas

963
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 4: and sort of really honest conversations about what's happening in

964
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 4: the region and in the country, and so it's actually

965
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 4: a really interesting media environment. I particularly i'd give a

966
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 4: shout out to the Young Young Saudi podcast as people

967
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:36,439
Speaker 4: like the most show.

968
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: I'd encourage people to go and go and have a

969
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 2: look at this. You know, they are the.

970
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 4: Voice of the country. You know, it's these young Saudis

971
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 4: who are the voice of the country and seeing that

972
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 4: change and they're really having their voices heard in a

973
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 4: pretty vibrant way, which I don't think is what people

974
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 4: would necessarily expect.

975
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: From this part of the world. But I'm so proud

976
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: of the you know.

977
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 4: The young Saudis who are having those conversations, and the

978
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 4: consumption of that is rapid here, so you know, I

979
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 4: very quickly find out what's happening in the world because

980
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 4: you know, my young Saudi mates will say to me,

981
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 4: did you see this on Twitter or Snapchat or Instagram,

982
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 4: And it's just it's lightning. But if seventy percent of

983
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 4: the population is under thirty five, I think I think

984
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 4: almost about sixty five sixty eight percent of the population

985
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 4: are in their twenties.

986
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 2: So wow, like it gives you a real sense of that.

987
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 4: And the truth is a difference between a twenty year

988
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 4: old Saudi and a thirty year old Saudi is really

989
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: profound because one has sort of basically grown up after

990
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 4: the reforms and one before. And so there's this huge

991
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 4: influx of you know, a very kind of vibrant society

992
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 4: of young Saudis who are super connected to the world,

993
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 4: proud of their country and being part of a change.

994
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 4: And so I think that's a yeah, I'd encourage people

995
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 4: to come and experience it for themselves.

996
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: Well, I will be as you know, I'm going to

997
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: come over there.

998
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 3: But can I just just on that the virorent young

999
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 3: people and you know, the media being social media, especially

1000
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 3: because the perception back here in Australia and perhaps other

1001
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 3: places of the world is that oh, you can't against

1002
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 3: the crown prince. You know you might get in terms

1003
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 3: of you know, publications you might get. There might be

1004
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 3: some suppression. Obviously that's not the case from what you're saying.

1005
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 3: It's actually like everybody gets up then, as you said,

1006
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 3: contest of ideas. I actually feel in Australia from what

1007
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 3: you're saying, we have more suppression on a contest in

1008
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 3: terms of contest of ideas and you do currently where

1009
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 3: you're living in Saudi Arabia, correct, Yeah, And.

1010
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 4: I think like you know what you see. I think

1011
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 4: you see two things in the West. Look, in Australia

1012
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 4: is better than a lot of the West. But I

1013
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 4: think you see this kind of like sanctimonious lecturing of

1014
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 4: people when you have this contest of ideas, Like we

1015
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 4: love other people too who supposedly are.

1016
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 2: Saying that they're righteous.

1017
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 4: You know, they're in the right kind of way to

1018
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 4: tell other people how they need to live their own

1019
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 4: lives and to tell other people how, you know, what

1020
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 4: we shouldn't do, like to tell people what they shouldn't

1021
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 4: do seems to be like an Australian disease.

1022
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think.

1023
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 4: We're here, is it? As I said, it's like, how

1024
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 4: do we change the country in the region for the better?

1025
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 4: You know, what's your idea, what's my idea, Let's debate it,

1026
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 4: let's let's look at the pros and cons and then

1027
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 4: lay it. On top of that is just a natural

1028
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 4: sense of patriotism, which I think is really good, strong

1029
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 4: thing about this region. You know, they should be rightfully

1030
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 4: proud that these are great countries with amazing people, and

1031
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 4: so that dynamic is kind of very different, you know,

1032
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 4: and on some of the nuances around the media thing.

1033
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 4: Again from that kind of sanctimonious thing, I think people

1034
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 4: who just don't understand the country often you know, say

1035
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 4: frankly pretty cruel and uninformed things. Now, over time, as

1036
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 4: people understand more of the you know, the transformation that's happening,

1037
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 4: and the story of the country and the incredible history

1038
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 4: and culture. You know. The beautiful thing about Saudi's particularly

1039
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 4: but the region is they are the most welcoming people

1040
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 4: on the planet.

1041
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: I mean it is.

1042
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 4: I cannot tell you how warm and friendly and helpful

1043
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 4: my Saudi friends are. But as that story gets out,

1044
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 4: I think that that narrative will kind of change. But

1045
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 4: you know, anybody who who does that, I think they

1046
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 4: just have to come here and see it. I'll give

1047
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 4: you one example, mark because it was one that really

1048
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 4: I think highlighted this.

1049
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: The other day.

1050
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 4: So, you know, maybe a month or so ago, we

1051
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 4: had the Comedy Festival. So you know, I'm a huge

1052
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 4: fan of stand up comedy. I went and saw Jimmy

1053
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 4: Carr and Luisy Kay and some great young Saudi comedians.

1054
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: So Jimmy, Jimmy Carr was alowd to do it. Jimmy

1055
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: Carr is good there.

1056
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: He was great.

1057
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 4: I mean he was I was blushing with what he

1058
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 4: was saying.

1059
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: Wow, I think you know.

1060
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 4: So, you know, in the Comedy Festival, we had Jimmy

1061
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 4: Carr and Luisy Kay and Dave Chappelle and you know,

1062
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 4: all all the kind of stand ups.

1063
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 3: And both can I just still be there for wit

1064
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 3: for sec But these are guys, by the way, who

1065
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 3: don't mind sort of you know that they they will

1066
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 3: get a little bit edgy, yeah, of.

1067
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 4: Course, yeah, And there's no constraints on what they they

1068
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 4: were they were, you know, they're all great comedians. They

1069
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 4: were really great. Uh you know, there's a great comedy

1070
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 4: club in Read and you really upset me because there

1071
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 4: was these you know, I hate using the word but

1072
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 4: either there were sort of these woke lefty journalists in

1073
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 4: the US and other places who are criticizing these comedians

1074
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 4: for coming.

1075
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:05,919
Speaker 2: Now what are they criticizing.

1076
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 4: Well, you know, if you think about it, as I said,

1077
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 4: the average page of a Saudi is twenty six. You know,

1078
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 4: really average Saudi is like a twenty six year old

1079
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 4: female who's probably in renewable energy or technology. Right, what

1080
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 4: do they win by denying that person going and listening

1081
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 4: to a stand up comedian.

1082
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: And making their own decision?

1083
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Like, like, how are they benefiting the world

1084
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 4: by saying that, you know, people in this region shouldn't

1085
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 4: be allowed to go to stand up comedy but you

1086
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 4: know other people and you know, but they're okay to go,

1087
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 4: you know, go down the street. And this is I

1088
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 4: just totally don't get that. And I think, you know,

1089
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 4: the strength of this country is this incredible bulk of

1090
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 4: this young population who changing the world for the better.

1091
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 4: They want to be part of a important global community,

1092
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 4: and so I think that you know, these people who

1093
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 4: sort of criticize some of this stuff that will actually

1094
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 4: kind of die over time as they realize the reality

1095
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 4: on the ground. But you know, I just would sort

1096
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 4: of encourage people before they bring misconceived ideas and different

1097
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 4: perceptions to the sort of lecture this part of the world, like,

1098
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 4: go and experience it, go and live in it, Go

1099
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 4: and see these great saudis. And I can't wait to

1100
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 4: go to next year's Comedy Festival because.

1101
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: It's really good. You know, it's a great thing.

1102
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 3: I think part of the problem is in Australia at least,

1103
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 3: and I love my country as you do too, but

1104
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 3: you know, there's too many people around like me.

1105
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: So there's too many older people.

1106
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 3: Who've made some money or are comfortable, and where it's

1107
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 3: my generation who tend to be the ones who want

1108
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 3: to lecture the younger generational, particularly people from your age

1109
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 3: and down, as to what they shouldn't do and what

1110
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 3: they should do, when in fact, what we should be

1111
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 3: doing what I.

1112
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: Like to do.

1113
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not giving myself right here, but some

1114
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 3: people are not like to be this, Like fokes like

1115
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 3: James Packard like to do it, et cetera. We like

1116
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 3: to embrace what your generation is doing. In fact, we

1117
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 3: like to invest in what your generation is doing, because

1118
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 3: we know that you've got more innerjura than us, and

1119
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 3: you're smarter than us, and you have acts the more

1120
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: smarter people like yourselves. And that's what Australia I don't

1121
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 3: think is what we're not doing enough of it's my generation.

1122
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Mark, like I think, you know, there is

1123
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 4: huge benefit from the wisdom of age, you know, like

1124
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 4: like older strands, older people across the world, you know,

1125
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 4: they have incredible lived experiences, They've worked hard. You know,

1126
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 4: we are at our best when we stand on the

1127
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 4: shoulders of giants. And what I kind of see is,

1128
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 4: you know, young people are desperate for those kind of opportunities.

1129
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: They want to run at it.

1130
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 4: And the best leaders in life, it doesn't matter whether

1131
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 4: it's in business or politics or whatever, are people like

1132
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,399
Speaker 4: yourself who say, how do we give them a go?

1133
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 4: How do I help them? How do I impart the

1134
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 4: knowledge and wisdom that I've built up over a lifetime

1135
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 4: of hard work and then let them have a crack

1136
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 4: and support them. And I've been really lucky. I've had

1137
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 4: a lot of people like that in my life. That,

1138
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 4: you know, I've learned so much from and done it.

1139
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 4: But you're right, I don't like the mentality sometimes of

1140
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 4: this sort of wingy like, you know, having a go

1141
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 4: at young people who are just you know, out they're

1142
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 4: trying to make a difference in the world and build

1143
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 4: a life for themselves. So yeah, it does sadden me

1144
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 4: when we don't see that enough. But I also see

1145
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 4: the best of it where you know, in my life,

1146
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 4: I've been really lucky. I've got these incredible friends and

1147
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: mentors who you know, have done remarkable things over a

1148
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 4: long time, and they've been great, not just great mates,

1149
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 4: but great mentors in life. And you know, we need

1150
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 4: more people like you who do that for the next

1151
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 4: generation because that's ultimately better for everybody.

1152
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 3: Very nicely said, thank you, mate, But can I just

1153
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 3: ask you this question, And I think this is an

1154
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 3: important question, but certainly one that's racing around my brain.

1155
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 3: It's good to be for these people to be idealistic

1156
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 3: young people. It's good to have that population demographic. It's

1157
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 3: good to have a leader of the country, you know,

1158
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 3: who's young and a visionary and has the ability to

1159
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: make things happen.

1160
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: But where in terms of execution.

1161
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 3: What is the level of intelligence and intellect that sits

1162
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,439
Speaker 3: within the co of people you're talking about, Like where

1163
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 3: are they getting their skills from it? They are they

1164
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 3: great universities or great education institutions right now?

1165
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: In Saudi?

1166
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I mean there's an incredible I think institutional

1167
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 4: strength in the country from from a number of different things.

1168
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 4: So one I would say, you know, there's a there's

1169
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 4: a corporate institutional strength in things like a Ramco.

1170
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 2: You know, Ramco is the less profitable company on the planet.

1171
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 4: So you know, you've had this great story for the

1172
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: country that has obviously done a lot around resource extraction,

1173
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 4: but what it's also done is train a generation or

1174
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 4: many generations of great corporate leaders with really big, significant

1175
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 4: global corporate experience. So you know, you see a bit

1176
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 4: of that. On science and technology and research. The Kingdom

1177
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 4: has amazing universities. So for example COUST KA U s

1178
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 4: T which is on the Red Sea and Jedda. It's

1179
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 4: a it's a higher education institution. On citations per capita,

1180
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 4: ranks around one of the best in the world. It

1181
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 4: has a endowment that is bigger than Harvard and its

1182
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 4: current president is a mate called ed Byrne who was

1183
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 4: the vice chancellor of Monash and the president of King's

1184
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 4: College in London.

1185
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 3: So you might just just pick a few of those

1186
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 3: things though, because like not a lot of people would

1187
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 3: really know what you're talking about. When you say citations,

1188
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 3: you mean off the back of publications that have come

1189
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: out of this university where somebody has done some research

1190
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 3: on a topic tech, engineering, health science, whatever, medicine, and

1191
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 3: that gets published, peer reviewed, then published. What you were

1192
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 3: saying is those publications coming out of the research in

1193
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 3: those institutions in Saudi Arabia are being cited across the world,

1194
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 3: perhaps by others using that publication as authority for a

1195
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 3: really important proposition.

1196
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: Is that what you mean by citations exactly.

1197
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 4: I mean a more simple way of saying, this is

1198
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 4: the research that's happening in these institutions in the Kingdom

1199
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: and particularly a Chaos which was on a per capita basis,

1200
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 4: is developing technology of some sort that has the ability

1201
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 4: to change the world and solve the big challenges facing

1202
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 4: our time. So whether that's in energy, or in healthcare,

1203
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 4: or in you know, wherever it might be, mobility that's

1204
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 4: coming from a homegrown institution that is incredible. You know,

1205
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 4: another just to give you another sense of this, taxed

1206
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 4: KACST is effectively the Kingdom's version of CSIRO, but much

1207
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 4: larger in many ways, and thousands of research scientists working

1208
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 4: on super interesting challenges, everything from disease control through to

1209
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 4: satellite technology. You know, they've just done an amazing partnership

1210
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 4: with Lucid, you know, the electric vehicle car company, which

1211
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 4: I mean anybody who's driven a Lucid I means it's

1212
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 4: a really amazing car. They're developing here apt CAXT, the

1213
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 4: battery technology for it, the resilience to harsh environments, solving

1214
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 4: logistical challenge and so that's with thousands of homegrown research

1215
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 4: scientists coming out of these great institutions.

1216
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 2: I mentioned a ram COO.

1217
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 4: You know, there was a whole generation of scientists and

1218
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: engineers that were also trained at the universities around a

1219
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 4: RAMCO that helped create that change. So you've got this

1220
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 4: institutional strength in the country. Now, there's always change that

1221
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 4: needs to happen and things moving, but it is a

1222
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 4: strong foundation. The other layer is what we spoke about before,

1223
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 4: which was a recognition early on, let's send our people

1224
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 4: across the globe, make that as easy as possible, let

1225
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 4: them get the skill sets, and then when they come home,

1226
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 4: the country benefits. And you know, Saudi has done more

1227
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 4: on that front than any country I can think of.

1228
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 4: So you've got those two things playing out, and I

1229
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 4: think when you combine that with you the young population,

1230
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 4: the young leader, that's an institutional strength in the country

1231
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 4: that's pretty pretty special.

1232
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: You, in your Australian roles, were very.

1233
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 3: Ind in when I talked about innovationation or Malcolm Terminal's innovationation,

1234
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 3: very involved in a lot of people. My criticism of

1235
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: that phrase was most people couldn't even spell an innovation.

1236
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 3: They didn't really know what you mean by innovationnation. And like,

1237
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 3: I's just Malcolm being a high intellect, extremely bright guy. Always,

1238
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 3: in my vieways made the assumption that everybody knew what

1239
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 3: he was talking about when probably one percent of the

1240
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: population had his capacity therefore did not know what he

1241
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 3: was talking about. And I thought that innovation Nation was

1242
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 3: probably a little bit too hoyploy. But if I could

1243
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 3: reduce it back down to science, technology, engineering and maths,

1244
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,959
Speaker 3: those four topics, those which are four things we've sort

1245
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 3: of ignored a little bitre in Australia, not necessarily during

1246
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 3: your period, but traditionally because we have relied on mining

1247
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 3: and have relied on construction to a large extent, but science, technology,

1248
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 3: energy and engineering, I should say maths, particularly with women

1249
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 3: getting women a greater percentage of women involved.

1250
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: That in Australia we're doing something to do much better

1251
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: in that regard.

1252
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 3: How is STEM being addressed as a as a resource

1253
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: for Saudi Arabian as a sort of maybe as part

1254
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 3: of the vision STEM itself.

1255
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, I.

1256
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 4: Agree with your assessment of the failure of our ability

1257
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 4: to tell the story. I think you know, with hindsight,

1258
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,959
Speaker 4: I think you know there's a real opportunity to tell

1259
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 4: the story because I mean, ultimately, what it's about, right,

1260
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 4: what sort of country do you want your kids to

1261
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 4: grow up in? You know? I think that that I'll

1262
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 4: come back to your question. I give you a great

1263
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 4: story on this. I always said to people the moment

1264
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 4: that we would succeed on that storytelling is when the

1265
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 4: guy that drives the truck from Bunderberg to Sydney realizes

1266
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 4: that if we get this right, his kids grow up

1267
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 4: with more kind of opportunity in the country. And we

1268
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 4: set up the Tech Council of Australia after I was

1269
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 4: in politics, which is a great kind of industry body

1270
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 4: to help support the industry. Was chaired by Robert Denholm,

1271
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 4: who's the global chair of Tesla, who's a great friend,

1272
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 4: and the founders are the biggest tech companies. And when

1273
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 4: we did it, I don't think I've ever told this

1274
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 4: story public, but we we did some polling and some

1275
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 4: research to sort of say, well, what were there sentiments

1276
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 4: towards the tech industry in the country.

1277
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 2: And we did this focus group.

1278
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 4: It was sort of you know, coming out of COVID,

1279
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 4: so a lot of it was online. And there was

1280
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 4: literally this truck driver who was driving from Bunderberg to Sydney.

1281
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 4: This is the sort of thing I would use in

1282
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 4: my stump speech. And he's in you know, he's in

1283
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 4: the hotel room, I think in Kuna Bara Bran or something,

1284
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 4: and he's it was fantastic. He's got the cigarette, he's

1285
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 4: sitting there, he's smoking and he says, look, I know

1286
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 4: that this new industry might be a challenge, right, like

1287
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 4: I might not drive the truck one day.

1288
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 2: I understood the threat.

1289
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 4: And that was the heart of the politics, was like

1290
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 4: is this a threat or an opportunity. But he said,

1291
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 4: if Mike and he had this great line, He's like,

1292
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 4: my son spends too much time on video games and

1293
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 4: I want him to get off. But if he can

1294
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,479
Speaker 4: be involved in creating the thing that means the truck

1295
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 4: doesn't need me to drive it anymore, then I'm proud

1296
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 4: of him, and I'm proud of the country, and like,

1297
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 4: we never really got that narrative right, but I think

1298
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 4: that that is actually the truth of what all of

1299
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 4: this means. To your point, I would add one more. Yes,

1300
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 4: STAM is super important, but I also think entrepreneurs skill sets.

1301
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 4: So I think without the entrepreneurs and the STEM coming together,

1302
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 4: this doesn't quite play out, because you can you know,

1303
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 4: when I became the minister in Australia, we ranked the

1304
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 4: top three in the OECD for research and the bottom

1305
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 4: three for commercialization. So if you're not you have to

1306
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 4: do the great research, but if you're not commercializing it

1307
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 4: into business products services that change the world and create

1308
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 4: economic activity, you kind of fail. So I would add

1309
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 4: that to it. I think in Saudi this is just

1310
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 4: a natural strength.

1311
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 2: So you've seen.

1312
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 4: You've seen historically a lot of focus on STEM partly

1313
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 4: because of the Aramco story. So you know, the greatest

1314
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 4: institutions initially started in engineering and you know, those kind

1315
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 4: of skill sets around a RAM code. Then you saw

1316
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 4: the influx out into the world and so that was

1317
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 4: just a very natural thing that a lot of Saudi's

1318
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 4: would study. And then now it's just taken on a

1319
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 4: life of its own. You know.

1320
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: At NEOM, I was very lucky.

1321
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 4: I had a number of female Saudi PhD. In renewable

1322
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 4: energy in different types of technology trained at cowst Roller

1323
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 4: institutions working for me. That is that is really really,

1324
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 4: really powerful, and that's kind of picking up you know.

1325
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 2: One of the great things we.

1326
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 4: Did at NEOM was we also had our own scholarship

1327
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 4: program to help Saudis from the region, which is a

1328
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 4: pretty regional area right It's in the northwest, but there's

1329
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 4: not much not much there yet, so we're talking really

1330
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,919
Speaker 4: small kind of communities, and we would we would say

1331
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 4: to the the high school students or the university students, look,

1332
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 4: if you want to work in this kind of field,

1333
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 4: we'll give you a scholarship to go to the US

1334
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 4: or the UK to study in that field. And one

1335
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 4: of the best things I did we went to the

1336
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 4: US and we met all of these students that we'd

1337
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 4: given the scholarship to a few hundred students, and I

1338
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 4: met five or six local girls from to Book, which

1339
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 4: is a regional kind of province in Saudi Arabia who

1340
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 4: were all studying computer science. Now in Australia, if I

1341
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 4: could find seven girls, you know, eighteen nineteen twenty studying

1342
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 4: computer science, I would be, you know, amazed.

1343
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 2: It's like a great thing.

1344
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 4: It wasn't even something that they contemplated that was unusual

1345
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 4: or that that was a new kind of thing. It

1346
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 4: just was assumed that that's what they would be doing.

1347
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 4: And I think this is one of these kind of

1348
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 4: moments where you know, the Kingdom is in some cases

1349
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 4: I find more progressive on this stuff because again I think,

1350
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to labor the age point

1351
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 4: too much. But if you've got a young population, you're

1352
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 4: just naturally more tech savvy and you know, more inclined

1353
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 4: to have tech adoption. So it's you're more likely than

1354
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 4: to have a bigger group of people or you know

1355
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 4: around you friends, mentor supporters who would just naturally say okay,

1356
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 4: well I will study renewable energy or computer science or

1357
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 4: engineering or mathematics. In any of these kind of fields

1358
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 4: AI huge thing in the region and so you just

1359
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 4: see a lot more of that here than I think

1360
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 4: people realize, and frankly, probably more than you see in Australia.

1361
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 3: So the burning question for me, mate is I've known

1362
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 3: you for a while now, and especially when you're a

1363
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 3: much younger guy and he's still single.

1364
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 4: I I am going through a relationship that is sadly ending.

1365
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: Sorry to hear that, but that's okay, Mark.

1366
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 4: I'm glad we're talking about it on the podcast today.

1367
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,479
Speaker 1: Let's no worries, Mate, because everybody wondering, well, I.

1368
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 4: You know, one of the sad things that I think is,

1369
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 4: you know, it's a very sad thing to go through.

1370
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 2: It. It's not something you want to you know, no

1371
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 2: one wants to experience.

1372
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 4: But I mean, the divorce rate is extremely high in

1373
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 4: Australia and everywhere, and that's a sad, sad thing in life,

1374
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 4: and you know, I wish them well. But I'll come

1375
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 4: get some father your advice from you on the dating

1376
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 4: front once I'm ready to get Mate.

1377
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm the worst person to ask are you serious? Three times?

1378
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 3: So you know, The reason why I asked is because

1379
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 3: for people who might be listening to this, for those

1380
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 3: people thinking that we, you know, I'm an entrepreneur, I've

1381
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 3: got a new technology idea, or I've got something up

1382
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 3: and running, maybe I could go to a Saudi and

1383
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 3: experience you know, maybe you know, working out there trying

1384
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: to raise some money or et cetera, building a lab,

1385
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 3: whatever the deal is because a lot of these people,

1386
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 3: A lot of people go to San Francisco, but no

1387
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 3: one really I don't think many considering going to Saudi.

1388
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 3: But they'd also like to know what it's like to

1389
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 3: live there, like as a as a single person, perhaps

1390
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 3: because like I know, they get a sense of San

1391
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 3: Francisco very similar to Australia, very similar Sydney. But what

1392
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 3: is it like to be single and or just socialization

1393
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 3: within a place like that.

1394
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 4: It's like it's fun, is the best way of putting it.

1395
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 4: I think. You know, Saudi's, as I said, are incredibly warm,

1396
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 4: incredibly welcoming. It's one of these countries where you know,

1397
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 4: you can meet someone on the streets or the shops

1398
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 4: and then you know, come back to our players come out,

1399
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 4: you know, like they're just very very very welcoming people

1400
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 4: who really enjoy life, and I think, you know, you

1401
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 4: know what it is, there's an appreciation for life here

1402
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 4: that is totally intoxicating. Like they just love life, love people,

1403
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 4: they appreciate what they've got, and I think that that's

1404
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 4: a really great kind of place to be. So I

1405
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 4: think if you're a young single person, like you're going

1406
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 4: to meet so many interesting people here and be exposed

1407
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 4: to so many different people from different walks of life,

1408
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 4: which is a great thing to do at that stage.

1409
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 4: I think if you have a young family as well,

1410
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 4: it's just a very family friendly environment as well. So

1411
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 4: if you know, you get married and have kids, this

1412
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 4: is a great place to do that. As an Australian,

1413
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 4: you know, you want to go see the world, it's

1414
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 4: forty eight hours on a plane somewhere usually, you know,

1415
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 4: by the time you get there. Here you're just so

1416
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 4: connected to everywhere in the globe as well, So the

1417
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 4: opportunity to kind of explore and get out and see

1418
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 4: different countries is really profound, and also across the region.

1419
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I had one of my best

1420
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 4: mates from UNI here a few weeks ago and we

1421
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 4: drove you know, Saudi Omah and the UAE and crossing

1422
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 4: borders in a car and driving its Australian. It's just

1423
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 4: something you don't kind of think about. So you know,

1424
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 4: that's really great. And then obviously, you know, your ability

1425
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 4: to set yourself up in a way here that's just

1426
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 4: harder to do in other parts of the world is

1427
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 4: really significant. So I think it's a great place. There's

1428
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 4: huge diversity in the region, there's super welcoming people, it's

1429
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 4: a lot.

1430
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 2: Of fun, it's really safe.

1431
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: Safe.

1432
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 4: It's like it's incomprehensible how safe this place is. So

1433
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 4: you know, I reckon I could walk out with my

1434
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 4: wallet full of cash and leave it, you know, on

1435
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 4: the main street, and within an hour someone would bring

1436
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 4: it back. In terms, I think there's a there's a

1437
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,799
Speaker 4: real culture around that wow, which is really kind of special.

1438
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 4: And I mean, you know, not to talk down the

1439
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 4: UK again, but you know, the UK has a real

1440
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 4: kind of crime crisis. I mean I was I was

1441
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:46,600
Speaker 4: in London a little while ago and I had my

1442
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 4: phone on the table at a you know, out sitting

1443
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 4: outside of a Chinese restaurant in the city, and my

1444
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 4: mate was like, what are you doing. That's going to

1445
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 4: get stolen and like you basically, I mean every person

1446
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 4: I talked to in London at the moment has had

1447
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 4: several phones stop. The thought that would happen in this

1448
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 4: country is ridiculous. I mean, I like, it is so safe,

1449
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 4: so welcoming culturally, people look out for each other here,

1450
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 4: which I think is really really kind of special. And

1451
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 4: you know, this is a great strength of Australia has

1452
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 4: as well. It's incredibly safe. I mean, I don't you know,

1453
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 4: I probably wouldn't shave too loud, but I don't remember

1454
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 4: in Australia ever having keys to my house, Like it's

1455
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 4: just not you know, I would never you know, anybody

1456
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:26,799
Speaker 4: who's listening, please don't go rob my house in Australia.

1457
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 4: But I've never liked, you know, I've never I've never

1458
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 4: locked my doors. I mean maybe that's growing up on

1459
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 4: the farm or whatever, but like, you know, it's a

1460
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 4: very safe environment and that's what it's like here. You know,

1461
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 4: it's just people look out for each other, people are

1462
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 4: it's extremely safe and welcoming environment and so you and

1463
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 4: people are extremely honest as well, Like there's a real

1464
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 4: sense of they want to they want to be good

1465
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 4: partners and work with you and look after you, and

1466
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 4: they're very happy that you're part of the country. And

1467
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 4: I'm really proud to call it, of course out Arabia home.

1468
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 4: And it's partly because of just the warmth of they're

1469
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:03,919
Speaker 4: people and.

1470
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 2: Their pride in their country, I think is super special.

1471
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 1: Do you have to sit back and sort of scratch your.

1472
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 3: Head and say, how did the kid son of a

1473
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 3: strawberry farmer from Queensland end up being the up.

1474
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 1: Until today in charge of innovation at Neon, which.

1475
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 3: Is probably one of the biggest, most ambitious projects on

1476
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 3: the planet today. Yeah, and right of old age of

1477
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 3: thirty five or whatever you are.

1478
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there are moments when you like, of

1479
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 4: course this sort of reflected you say, how did that happen?

1480
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: Or whatever?

1481
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 4: You're running on adrenaline, like you know, whether it was

1482
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 4: in politics or in business or here, which is kind

1483
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 4: of a blend of both, to be honest, you know

1484
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 4: you know this better than most people. Right, you're running

1485
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 4: on adrenaline. You're trying to make sure you're doing the

1486
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 4: right thing. You're involved in big decisions, so you know,

1487
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 4: you're just very focused on doing a good job. So

1488
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 4: you don't have that many quiet moments where you reflect,

1489
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 4: can you you realize that? But they do happen. And

1490
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 4: I mean, I've been incredibly fortunate and lucky to to

1491
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,480
Speaker 4: you know, to have these different experiences across my life.

1492
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 4: But I think, you know, if I think about how

1493
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 4: that happened, I mean it's I've never been afraid of

1494
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 4: trying to do something different and accepting you might fail,

1495
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 4: like it's really important.

1496
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 2: This is my thing.

1497
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 4: Like all of my friends who have done great things

1498
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 4: in life, in politics or in business or whatever it

1499
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 4: might be. People talk about their successes, but they've all

1500
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 4: had different failures at different times, right, and they've all

1501
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,600
Speaker 4: learned from I mean, I've had failures in politics and

1502
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,840
Speaker 4: you know whatever, but you learn from them and you're

1503
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 4: not afraid of that that And I think if you

1504
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 4: think about what is it that stops people from doing things,

1505
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 4: it's essentially fear, right, and it's fear of what do

1506
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 4: other people think? And am I going to fail? And

1507
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 4: I think the thing that I've been lucky is I've

1508
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 4: had people in my life that have sort of helped

1509
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 4: in steel in me that if you fail, start again,

1510
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 4: learn from the lessons. You know, do something to do

1511
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 4: the next thing that's really important. And look, of course

1512
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 4: you as a human being, you care about what other

1513
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 4: people think, but it can't stop you from trying to

1514
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 4: do something. And you know, I, you know, come back

1515
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 4: to this theme of like a contest of ideas. I mean,

1516
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:19,600
Speaker 4: some of my best mates, the reason we're mates is

1517
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 4: because we disagree on things. You know, we enjoy the

1518
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 4: kind of banter and the back and forward that comes

1519
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,759
Speaker 4: with it. And so I just think, like, the reason

1520
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 4: I've been lucky to have kind of the experiences that

1521
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 4: I have is I've not been afraid to fail, and

1522
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,920
Speaker 4: I've not necessarily been too afraid of what other people think. Now,

1523
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 4: of course I'm listen and I want to learn from it,

1524
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 4: but you know, if they disagree with me, that's not

1525
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 4: a bad thing. And and then you know, not afraid

1526
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 4: to kind of have a go. And I think that

1527
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 4: that's probably just why I've been lucky in that sense

1528
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 4: to have the experiences.

1529
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: That I've had.

1530
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,799
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I often say fear is the greatest

1531
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 3: thief of imagination that exists.

1532
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 1: It definitely is.

1533
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 3: And but one of the things that you've sort of

1534
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 3: open up in this conversation is the contest of ideas.

1535
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 3: And I think that in places like the UK, perhaps

1536
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,600
Speaker 3: to a lesser extent here in Australia, places like the

1537
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 3: US good examples Charlie Kirk, the lack or the disbelief

1538
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 3: in the contest of ideas, it's nearly like your calling

1539
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 3: for tyranny, if particularly in a philosophical sense, like a

1540
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 3: political sense, if you're coming up with an idea that

1541
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 3: you want to put out there and open to the contest,

1542
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,679
Speaker 3: or eternally, if you're contesting someone else's idea, it's nearly

1543
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 3: like your herosical heretical like in other words, you're you're

1544
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:40,799
Speaker 3: committing heresy.

1545
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: How dare you say that it's great to hear, because

1546
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you, I am so.

1547
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 3: Refreshingly surprised to hear the contest of ideas is something

1548
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 3: that's embraced in the Middle East.

1549
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: That's the last place I thought I'd ever hear it.

1550
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 4: The Middle East is vibrant, and that vibrant culture says

1551
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 4: let's have a contest of ideas. And I think you know,

1552
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 4: as I said before, I mean Trump. I think you

1553
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:10,680
Speaker 4: know you can like or dislike Trump. But I think

1554
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 4: he got this line right where he said, you know,

1555
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 4: you used to be defined by chaos. Now it's defined

1556
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:17,799
Speaker 4: by commerce. And if you bring a contest of ideas

1557
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 4: to commerce and changing a society, that is what that

1558
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 4: is what is a huge strength here, and I think

1559
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 4: it's a huge weakness in the in the West when

1560
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 4: this doesn't happen. So the you know, as I said before,

1561
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 4: your point about the heresies is what I would call

1562
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 4: this sanctimonious lecturing. So you know, I think we are

1563
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 4: at our best when we have that contest of ideas

1564
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 4: and we say, you know, if I disagree with you,

1565
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 4: my best response is a better idea, a better argument,

1566
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 4: a better you know, a better position, and debate that idea.

1567
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 4: I think at our worst, what we lose is actually no,

1568
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 4: I'm not interested in the contest of ideas. I'm just

1569
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 4: I just want to tell you you can't do that,

1570
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,479
Speaker 4: and I want to tell you can't say that, and

1571
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,719
Speaker 4: you're a bad person if you have a different idea

1572
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 4: to me. And I think we let ourselves down when

1573
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 4: we question the motivations of other people. And that's that

1574
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 4: kind of sanctimonious kind of lecturing. Is we're questioning the motivations,

1575
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 4: not what they want to do and my best mates,

1576
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 4: I mean politics taught me this. I mean literally, my

1577
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 4: best mates are people who I would struggle to name

1578
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 4: a thing that we agree on, but I certainly have

1579
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,719
Speaker 4: never questioned their motivations. You know, we all love our country,

1580
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 4: we all love you know, we all want to make

1581
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 4: a difference in the world. I don't know why that

1582
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 4: conversation is so hard to have, but you know, for

1583
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 4: whatever reason, it seems to be harder to have every day.

1584
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 4: And the beauty of this region is that that disease

1585
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 4: hasn't kind of infected this region.

1586
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 2: I mean, the great strength is there.

1587
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 4: You know, how do we get new people here to

1588
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,720
Speaker 4: do new things to create a better world, and how

1589
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 4: do we ensure that our people are changing this country

1590
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 4: in this region for the better? And that's just something

1591
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 4: pretty special be part of who would.

1592
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 3: You encourage to We still have a lot of young

1593
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 3: people who are here in Australia who are entrepreneurs, who

1594
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 3: have side hustles, who are ambitious to do something new,

1595
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 3: people who are studying trying to discover things at Australian

1596
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 3: universities are great institution. Its great places to discover things

1597
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 3: and to be encouraged to do these sorts of things

1598
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 3: that very intelligent people, knowledgeable of those different cohorts, who

1599
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 3: would be best suited to maybe suit up and say

1600
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:20,759
Speaker 3: I'm on my way to react.

1601
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, Saudia is incredibly welcoming and you know,

1602
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 4: we'll take talent from anywhere in any kind of field.

1603
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 4: You know, in the Australian context, there's a ton of

1604
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 4: Australians already here. I mean people don't necessarily realize this.

1605
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,640
Speaker 4: There's over ten thousand Australians in the king Wow and

1606
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 4: in really senior positions. So you know, I talked about

1607
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 4: Ed who's the president of COW, Mike who's the CEO

1608
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 4: of NBC, Sarah Hill, who is running a really large

1609
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:50,080
Speaker 4: project as part of the PIF here used to develop

1610
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:54,480
Speaker 4: Western Sydney or the area around Western Sydney's Bradfield development.

1611
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 4: You just keep going through. There are a lot of

1612
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 4: really senior Australians here, and there are a lot of

1613
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 4: just large numbers, over ten thousand Australians here contributing to

1614
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:06,679
Speaker 4: the country. And so there's a great kind of culture.

1615
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 4: We have a really similar sense of humor. So it's

1616
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 4: actually a really interesting kind of strengths so soudis are

1617
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 4: I was talking about the Comedy Festival. I mean, they

1618
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 4: have to such a great sense of humor. It's funny

1619
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:18,640
Speaker 4: and it's dark, and you know, we sort of have

1620
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 4: a gold each other.

1621
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:21,400
Speaker 1: You take the mickey out of each other exactly.

1622
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 4: I was trying to find the politically correct word.

1623
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 2: Yes, you make the.

1624
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:24,960
Speaker 4: Mickey out of each other.

1625
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the what I was looking for.

1626
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 4: So, yeah, we take the mickey out of each other,

1627
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 4: which you know Americans and Europeans.

1628
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 2: Don't quite get.

1629
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 4: And so this is sort of like, really, it's a

1630
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 4: real kind of strength here that we have. And so look,

1631
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 4: I mean I would encourage people in any kind of field.

1632
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 4: I do think, you know, particularly entrepreneurs, investors, people in technology,

1633
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 4: science research. Obviously it's one of the most interesting parts

1634
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 4: of the world, but you know, across the board, this

1635
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 4: is a great place to be. I'll tell you a

1636
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 4: little story because it's on my mind. So tomorrow I

1637
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 4: have a friend coming to visit in Riad who he

1638
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 4: created a company in Australia, a technology company. It at

1639
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 4: its peak had about a half a billion dollar valuation,

1640
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 4: so it built an amazing kind of company. He went

1641
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 4: to San Francisco when the company got going, and this

1642
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 4: is before I was the minister, and I said to him,

1643
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 4: you know, if we're successful in the Australian context, you're

1644
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 4: going to come home. And he said, no, no, no, no, no,

1645
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 4: you know, the US market's too big and capital.

1646
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:25,599
Speaker 2: And we love what you're doing.

1647
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 4: Anyway, maybe five or six or seven years after we

1648
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 4: did our reforms, he listed the company on the ASEX.

1649
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 4: He ultimately came home and made that prosperity. He then

1650
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 4: moved back to sort of splits his time between Europe

1651
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 4: and the US, and he's coming here tomorrow because this

1652
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 4: is where he wants the future, you know, his future

1653
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 4: to be. This is where he wants to create his

1654
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 4: next thing. This is where he wants to create the

1655
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 4: new thing. And so I feel like he's kind of

1656
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 4: the example of the full circle that we've gone on

1657
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 4: where you have these great kind of you know, innovators, entrepreneurs,

1658
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 4: people in science, technology, engineering who recognize just how important

1659
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 4: this part of the world is now and making it home.

1660
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 4: The other thing that's special about this, I think is

1661
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:10,800
Speaker 4: the connections across the globe, you know, because of where

1662
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 4: we sit. So it's just very natural here for people

1663
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 4: to come from Asia, Europe or the US where you know,

1664
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 4: I always find if I mean Europe, you don't quite

1665
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 4: get that blending. Or in the US obviously it's best

1666
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 4: you get that blending, but not always we're here. You know,

1667
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 4: it's very natural will be in a you know, in

1668
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 4: a company and you know you're working with great saudis,

1669
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,799
Speaker 4: great people from you know, somewhere in Asia, somewhere in Europe,

1670
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 4: somewhere in the US, all in the same team. You know,

1671
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 4: in the NEO context, we had people from over a

1672
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 4: hundred countries working on the project, So you know, there

1673
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,240
Speaker 4: is that real blending of talent from across the globe

1674
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 4: here and that just creates something pretty unique. And it

1675
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 4: also frankly gives you access just to a bigger market

1676
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 4: as well. So yeah, I think people should come and

1677
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 4: experience it for themselves. And then you won't find a

1678
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 4: more welcoming place than here to to do big things.

1679
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 1: And when when does your actual term at NEON complete?

1680
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:05,480
Speaker 2: Yesterday?

1681
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: Yesterday? So okay, let's just tease this that a little bit.

1682
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,519
Speaker 3: Have you got anything for us as to what is

1683
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 3: the next stage of White Roy's life?

1684
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:18,599
Speaker 4: Well, I won't you know, give it all the way today.

1685
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 4: But what I would say is I am really in

1686
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:24,759
Speaker 4: love with this country, with the region. I'm really proud

1687
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 4: to call this remarkable place home. I will contribute and

1688
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 4: continue to do stuff here, working with some very interesting

1689
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 4: people across the across the country and across the world.

1690
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 4: And I won't give you more than that today, but

1691
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 4: that's a little teaser.

1692
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 3: Well, knowing having watched you over many, many years, it

1693
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 3: will be i'd say something large, something that other people

1694
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 3: would be going, mom my, God, has he done that?

1695
01:20:57,080 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 3: And it won't be with small partners. It'll be with

1696
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 3: a larger partner. And what I'm hoping to do is

1697
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 3: once again is to be proud of what why Roy

1698
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 3: has achieved. And I'm sure that's going to be the

1699
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 3: case next round. And we can't wait. I can't wait

1700
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 3: to find of what the hell it is?

1701
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:11,719
Speaker 1: Mate.

1702
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 2: Well that's kind.

1703
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 4: Well I'll tell you what Mark when you come here,

1704
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 4: we can talk about it, and I'd love to show

1705
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 4: you the country and the people.

1706
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:20,479
Speaker 2: And I think.

1707
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 4: It's been great to chat as well, because I'm really

1708
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 4: I think this story needs to be told more and

1709
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 4: I'm glad that you're giving a voice to something pretty

1710
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,800
Speaker 4: special and come and see and touch it, feel it,

1711
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 4: and then maybe I'll tell you a bit more about

1712
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 4: what I'm going to do.

1713
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:33,679
Speaker 1: I'm planning.

1714
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 3: I'm definitely planning for twenty twenty six, but I'm thinking

1715
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 3: about later January.

1716
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,640
Speaker 1: Favresa a bad time of not be Is there a

1717
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:40,720
Speaker 1: Tommy You're not to be there?

1718
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 4: No?

1719
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 2: I mean no, I mean it depends where you go.

1720
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:46,600
Speaker 4: The look winter in this part of the world I

1721
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:50,120
Speaker 4: think is amazing because it's perfect weather, sunny, blue skies.

1722
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 2: People don't realize this.

1723
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:54,520
Speaker 4: I mean it depends what you're doing, coming from a

1724
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 4: business point of view or a tourism point of view,

1725
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 4: because of the diversity in landscapes and these incredible mountain ranges.

1726
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 4: Even if you come in the middle of summer, if

1727
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 4: you go into the mountain ranges in Saudi, you can

1728
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:08,560
Speaker 4: have these incredible kind of hot summer holidays. But you know,

1729
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 4: it's temperate and it's cool, it's nice. It's in parts

1730
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 4: of the country are actually really luscious, and so you know,

1731
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 4: depending what time of the year, you might want to

1732
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 4: pick what you're doing. But if I was to say

1733
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 4: to somebody, if you want to experience the country at

1734
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,800
Speaker 4: its best coming in the middle of winter. This is

1735
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,759
Speaker 4: the best winter in the world here, so try and time.

1736
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: It for that. Man, you're looking really chilled.

1737
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 3: You look like you're very happy and quite replete, So

1738
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 3: well done mate. To be frankly, I'm quite proud of

1739
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 3: an Australian doing so well overseas.

1740
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 1: I love seeing that, and thanks very much for your time.

1741
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.

1742
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 4: Thanks mate, now, I've really appreciated the chat and we'll

1743
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 4: catch up soon, you bet you