WEBVTT - Albanese's plan to tackle anti-semitism

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM in

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<v Speaker 1>the aftermath of the Bondai terror attack. The country is grieving.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a moment that calls for unity and for leadership,

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<v Speaker 1>but what we're seeing is something else. Within days, political

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<v Speaker 1>lines hardened, a former Prime minister stepped in, the opposition

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<v Speaker 1>shifted its message, and international leaders joined the chorus. With

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<v Speaker 1>political venoms so close to the surface, it revealed something

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<v Speaker 1>deeper about how crisis is now handled in Australian politics.

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<v Speaker 1>Today Press Gallery veteran Paul bon Jorno on the gap

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<v Speaker 1>between who we want to be and who we are.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Saturday, December twenty Paul, it's been a terrible week

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<v Speaker 1>for the country. What struck you the most about the

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<v Speaker 1>way our political leaders have handled themselves after Sunday's terror

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<v Speaker 1>attack at Bondi.

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<v Speaker 2>Or Daniel, it has been a terrible week for the country,

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<v Speaker 2>but we can't gain say that it's been a completely

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<v Speaker 2>shocking week for the Jewish community and for the grieving

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<v Speaker 2>families in Bondai. And given that it's been frankly disgusting

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<v Speaker 2>that people have tried to leverage political advantage by blaming

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<v Speaker 2>the Prime Minister and the Government of Australia for this massacre,

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<v Speaker 2>even saying that Alberanzi bears personal responsibility, when any sane

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<v Speaker 2>or rational person would see the personal responsibility is borne

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<v Speaker 2>by the gunman.

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<v Speaker 1>And immediately after the attack Israel's Prime Minister Bernjaminetna, who

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<v Speaker 1>did exactly that, saying Alberanizi was to blame because of

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<v Speaker 1>his decision to recognize a Palestinian state.

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<v Speaker 3>The government did nothing to stop the spread of anti

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<v Speaker 3>Semitism in Australia. You did nothing to curb the cancer

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<v Speaker 3>cells that were growing inside your country. You took no action,

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<v Speaker 3>You let the disease spread, and the result is the

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<v Speaker 3>horrific attacks on Jews we saw today.

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<v Speaker 1>How did Alberanzi handle that well?

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<v Speaker 2>Albanizi is acutely aware that at this time, the last

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<v Speaker 2>thing he should do as the Prime Minister of Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>the leader of the twenty seven million Australians from every

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<v Speaker 2>walk of life, every belief and none, is to further

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<v Speaker 2>enhance or further amplify the grief and the anger and

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<v Speaker 2>the bewilderment that's out there. So rather than even engage

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<v Speaker 2>with Netta Yahoo, he ignored the vitriol and the barbs,

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<v Speaker 2>and he spoke of the need for us all to

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<v Speaker 2>come together.

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<v Speaker 4>What people are looking for this time isn't more division.

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<v Speaker 4>They are looking to come together. I've sat in homes

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<v Speaker 4>in Sydney as well as having formal meetings with members

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<v Speaker 4>of the Jewish community. They're hurting and I think all Australians'

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<v Speaker 4>hearts goes out to them at this time.

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<v Speaker 1>And usually in Christis Paul, as you've mentioned, we see

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<v Speaker 1>rare moments of bipartisanship. That's not what we've seen this week.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me how Susan Lee's response to the massacres shifted

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<v Speaker 1>over the days following.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I've got to say that on Sunday night, when

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<v Speaker 2>we were all struggling to come to terms with what

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<v Speaker 2>was happening. You know, at first you could hardly believe

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<v Speaker 2>your ears. Then when you saw the television you couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>believe your eyes. Susan Lee put out a statement which

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<v Speaker 2>was considered and it was unifying. She said, today we

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<v Speaker 2>stand together as Australians against hate in this moment of

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<v Speaker 2>profound tragedy and shock. She even said she provided the

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister and the Commonwealth and state agencies with the

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<v Speaker 2>coalition's full and unconditional support. Now, a source within the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party tells me that Lee overnight came in for

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<v Speaker 2>extreme criticism for putting that statement out and not being

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<v Speaker 2>far more political in shooting home as much blame as

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<v Speaker 2>possible on Albanizi and the government. So next morning we

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<v Speaker 2>saw a change of tack from Lee.

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<v Speaker 5>We've seen a clear failure to keep Jewish Australians safe.

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<v Speaker 5>We've seen a clear lack of leadership in keeping Jewish

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<v Speaker 5>Australians safe.

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<v Speaker 2>And she said it was a lack of leadership allowing

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<v Speaker 2>anti Semitism to fester over the past two years.

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<v Speaker 1>And then former Prime Minister John Howard waiting quickly as well,

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<v Speaker 1>blaming the PM for the rise in anti semitism and

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<v Speaker 1>calling for further debate on gun reform. A diversion. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want that once more. Let me say that.

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<v Speaker 6>Couldn't be degraded into a debate about changes to government.

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<v Speaker 6>Was that is a diversion. The issue here is anti Semitism.

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<v Speaker 6>The failure over the last two years has been that

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<v Speaker 6>of the federal government, led by the Prime Minister as

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<v Speaker 6>Any alban Easy to bring sufficient energy to a broad

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<v Speaker 6>based attack on the evil of Andy Semitism.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you make of his intervention?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I thought it was extraordinary. I thought it was

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<v Speaker 2>unbecoming for a former Prime minister, and I thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was chriss politics the Times.

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<v Speaker 1>What you really think, Paul, You've covered the way John

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<v Speaker 1>Howard handled port Arthur. How would you compare the way

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<v Speaker 1>Anthony Alberenezi is responding now.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're right. I was in the Parliamentary press gallery

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<v Speaker 2>when port Arthur happened. But Howard immediately responded as the

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<v Speaker 2>leader of a nation that had just suffered an enormous damage,

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<v Speaker 2>a hurt.

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<v Speaker 5>Prime Minister John Howard revealed his plans for strict new

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<v Speaker 5>gun laws in the Federal Parliament late today.

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<v Speaker 6>We need to achieve a total prohibition on the ownership, possession,

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<v Speaker 6>stale and importation of all automatic and semi automatic weapons.

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<v Speaker 2>And he was fully supported in that by Kim Beasley,

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<v Speaker 2>the leader of the Opposition. And when Howard decided that

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<v Speaker 2>what port Arthur demonstrated was that Australia's gun laws did

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<v Speaker 2>not offer enough protection to Australians, he moved, and he

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<v Speaker 2>moved against outspoken elements of his base, particularly in the

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<v Speaker 2>National Party, that repeated the slogan that we're hearing again

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<v Speaker 2>now that guns don't kill, people kill, well, people with

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<v Speaker 2>guns do kill, and Howard appreciated this and bought in

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<v Speaker 2>far reaching gun reforms against some outspoken opposition, but with

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<v Speaker 2>the full support of Kim Beasley and the Parliament.

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<v Speaker 1>This week, the government has been blamed for not doing

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<v Speaker 1>enough to stamp out a rise in anti Semitism. It's

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<v Speaker 1>now been almost six months since Gillian Siegel handed down

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<v Speaker 1>her report laying out what she thinks needs to be

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<v Speaker 1>done to deal with anti Semitism. So has the government

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<v Speaker 1>failed in not at least responding to what she had

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<v Speaker 1>to say one way or another until after the attack.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Daniel, that's the narrative that's been put out by

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<v Speaker 2>some leaders of the Jewish community and being put out

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<v Speaker 2>very strongly by the federal opposition and people like John

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<v Speaker 2>Howard and Josh Friedenberg, the former Liberal Treasurer who's also Jewish.

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<v Speaker 7>Our Prime Minister. Our government has allowed Australia to be

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<v Speaker 7>radicalized on his watch. It's time for him to accept

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<v Speaker 7>personal responsibility for the death of fifteen innocent people, including

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<v Speaker 7>a ten year old child.

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<v Speaker 2>But it doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all. Speaking

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<v Speaker 2>to senior cabinet ministers this week, one did say to me,

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps we should have put out a list of what

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<v Speaker 2>we were doing and what we were still looking at,

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<v Speaker 2>to assure people that we'd taken the report seriously. But

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<v Speaker 2>having said that, he pointed, as Albanizi has and as

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<v Speaker 2>Tony Burke has, to things that were immediately done, things

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<v Speaker 2>like first ever hate laws.

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<v Speaker 8>Australia's diversity is our great strength. With these laws, we

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<v Speaker 8>are sending a clear signal to those who seek to

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<v Speaker 8>divide us. There is no place in this country for

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<v Speaker 8>hate speech and other hateful conduct that urges or threatens

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<v Speaker 8>violence against others.

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<v Speaker 2>Just very quickly on hate laws. You might remember there

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<v Speaker 2>was a huge debate about whether freedom of speech was

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<v Speaker 2>being impinged by eighteen c of the Racial Discrimination Act

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<v Speaker 2>and should be appealed. You might even remember that the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Attorney General George Brand has said people should be

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<v Speaker 2>free to be bigots. Well, it was the Labor government

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<v Speaker 2>after the Siegel Report that actually legislated against hate speech.

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<v Speaker 2>It also legislated against hate symbols like the Nazi salute.

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<v Speaker 2>So things were being done there. There was an ombudsman

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<v Speaker 2>put into universities to consider the situation about complaints about

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<v Speaker 2>the treatment of Jewish students. All of these things were

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<v Speaker 2>suggested by Siegel, and they were implemented by the Labor

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<v Speaker 2>government and, by the way, implemented by a Jewish Attorney General,

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<v Speaker 2>Mark Dreyfuss. But let me say to you, and I

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<v Speaker 2>know this from cabinet sources, that there were concerns about

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<v Speaker 2>some elements of Siegel's report, particularly the definition of anti Semitism,

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<v Speaker 2>because even though the definition at face value basically homes

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<v Speaker 2>in on hatred of the Jews, the people who put

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<v Speaker 2>it together also cited examples that could be seen as

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who criticizes Israel is by definition anti semitic. And

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<v Speaker 2>this is a real worry because is that anti semitic

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<v Speaker 2>or is it standing up for human values and human

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<v Speaker 2>rights as laid out, for example, in the United Nations Charter.

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<v Speaker 2>So there was some reluctance to go there. But now,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, after what happened on the weekend, Alberizi has

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<v Speaker 2>embraced the definition that has been given. But Alberizi has

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<v Speaker 2>said that he will work with the Special Envoy Gillian

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<v Speaker 2>Siegel on how to apply the definition, how to assure

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<v Speaker 2>greater safety for, for example, Jewish students on campus, while

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<v Speaker 2>at the same time not impinging on freedom of speech

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<v Speaker 2>in a democracy like Australia. It's a fine line, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's one that surely has.

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<v Speaker 1>To be walked, coming up new laws to crack down

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<v Speaker 1>on hate speech and a path through the division Paul.

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<v Speaker 1>On Thursday, Anthony Alberinezi announced his five point plan to

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<v Speaker 1>end Anti Semitism. What's in it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's quite a lot in Daniel. The five point

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<v Speaker 2>plan homes in on hate speech.

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<v Speaker 4>Firstly, the Attorney General and Minister for Home Affairs will

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<v Speaker 4>develop a package of legislative reforms to crack down on

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<v Speaker 4>those who spread hate, division and radicalization.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes it an aggravated offense for preachers and leaders

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<v Speaker 2>who promote violence. It increases penalties for hate speech that

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<v Speaker 2>does promote violence, makes hate an aggravating factor for sentencing

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<v Speaker 2>crimes and for online threats and harassment.

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<v Speaker 4>Fourthly, developing a regime for listing organizations as leaders engage

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<v Speaker 4>in hate speech, promoting violence or racial hatred. And Fifthly,

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<v Speaker 4>developing a narrow federal offense for serious vilification based on

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<v Speaker 4>race and or advocating racial supremacy.

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<v Speaker 2>That last point will be quite difficult because governments labor

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<v Speaker 2>and Liberal have not known what to do about vilification,

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<v Speaker 2>given that some of Australia's senior church leaders were worried

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<v Speaker 2>that vilification laws could stop them, for example, of preaching

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<v Speaker 2>a belief that many of them have that homosexuality is

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<v Speaker 2>a grave sin.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, Paul, the Liberal Party used to be the

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<v Speaker 1>party of free speech. Like you said, they spent years

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<v Speaker 1>trying to water down the Racial Discrimination Act. How significant

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<v Speaker 1>has the shift been from them this week in relation

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<v Speaker 1>to free speech.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been mightily significant. But it is of a peace

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<v Speaker 2>with the way in which John Howard responded to nine

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<v Speaker 2>to eleven, where a raft of new laws were brought in,

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<v Speaker 2>with many human rights lawyers warning that we were chipping

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<v Speaker 2>away at the very foundation of our free, democratic society.

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<v Speaker 1>So there is a.

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<v Speaker 2>Record, if you like. The Coalition has a record of

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<v Speaker 2>encroaching on freedoms in the name of keeping us safe.

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<v Speaker 2>And even though as you say, they were opposed to

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<v Speaker 2>elements of the Racial Discrimination Act on the basis of

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<v Speaker 2>free speech, I think last Sunday has absolutely changed the context,

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<v Speaker 2>not only for the Coalition and the Liberals, but also

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<v Speaker 2>for the government. As Tony Burke, the Minister, said in

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<v Speaker 2>several interviews this week, the emphasis now is on keeping

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<v Speaker 2>people safe.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally, Paul, I've been uneasy a week watching how

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<v Speaker 1>device if this moment has become for all the people

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<v Speaker 1>coming together to try and comfort each other there after

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<v Speaker 1>a national tragedy, there's been people blaming each other and

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<v Speaker 1>using it as an opportunity to peddle their own agendas.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think it would take to lower the temperature.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I share with you discussed at the rank opportunism

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<v Speaker 2>we've seen from politicians and their fellow travelers this week.

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<v Speaker 2>The first thing that it will take is that we

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<v Speaker 2>give the Jewish community, especially the families of the victims,

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<v Speaker 2>but also their friends and their co religionists, time to grieve.

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<v Speaker 2>We should give them the dignity to feel their hurt

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<v Speaker 2>and pain with our arms wrapped around them, but not

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<v Speaker 2>trying to leverage anything from this pain other than rebuild

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<v Speaker 2>a sense of belonging, a sense of justice, and a

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<v Speaker 2>sense of recovery. That's going to take time. It won't

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<v Speaker 2>be helped by thoughtless or inflamed rehtoric, but it's a

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<v Speaker 2>task that the whole nation. Every one of us has

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<v Speaker 2>to embrace.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul. Thank you so much for your time. Have a

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<v Speaker 1>safe and happy Christmas in and a grand happy New Year.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much. Daniel, the same to you and

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<v Speaker 2>all the team. At seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Tomorrow has been declared a day of reflection to one

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<v Speaker 1>of the victims of last Sunday's attack. Prime Minister Anthony

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<v Speaker 1>Albernezi has also said there would be a national day

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<v Speaker 1>of mourning, which he will confirm in the new year.

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<v Speaker 1>Seven Am was a daily show from Solstice Media. It's

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<v Speaker 1>made by Adigus Bastow, Ari L Richards, Chris Dngate, Ruby Jones,

0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Sarah mcveee, Travis Evans, zoltenfeh Joe and Me Daniel James.

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<v Speaker 1>Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hergan

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<v Speaker 1>of Envelope Audio. We'll be back next week with something Different,

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<v Speaker 1>a series of episodes about the best cultural releases of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five, everything from film, TV and books to music,

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts and games. We hope you get some time to

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<v Speaker 1>unwind over summer and dig into some great storytelling. You

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<v Speaker 1>owe it to yourselves. Twenty twenty five has been one

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<v Speaker 1>hell of a year. Thanks for listening,