Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
Speaker 1: It's Friday, May thirty, twenty twenty five. An extremist cleric
Speaker 1: who preached that Jews were monsters thirsty for blood has
Speaker 1: formally apologized and promised not to vilify Jews. But The
Speaker 1: Australian's reporting today the Sheikh last Friday prayed for God
Speaker 1: to kill all the oppressors of Gaza. There's uproar and
Speaker 1: more confusion about whether Donald Trump's tariffs will apply after
Speaker 1: an American court said they were unlawful. You can read
Speaker 1: what that means for Australian exporters whose world has been
Speaker 1: turned upside down right now at the Australian dot com
Speaker 1: do AU. Did Aaron Patterson really search the web for
Speaker 1: information about death cap mushrooms? And did police miss a
Speaker 1: crucial piece of evidence when searching her house? Today? Where
Speaker 1: the defense lawyer is probing the police case against Patterson,
Speaker 1: who's pleaded not guilty to three counts of murder and
Speaker 1: one of attempted murder. We've used voice actors throughout this
Speaker 1: episode to bring you the words aired in court. What
Speaker 1: happened at Aaron Patterson's house when police showed up to
Speaker 1: execute a search warrant, and wear's Patterson's missing phone. Those
Speaker 1: are two of the big questions at the heart of
Speaker 1: the so called mushroom murder trial, where Patterson is accused
Speaker 1: of murdering three elderly relatives and attempting to murder a
Speaker 1: fourth by deliberately feeding them beef wellington laced with deadly
Speaker 1: death cap mushrooms. She's pleaded not guilty, and her defense
Speaker 1: lawyer has told the jury the poisoning was a tragic
Speaker 1: accident that even though she lied to police about whether
Speaker 1: she'd ever foraged for mushrooms, that was a sign not
Speaker 1: of guilt, but of panic at the catastrophe that was unfolding.
Speaker 1: On Thursday, Aaron Patterson's lawyer, Colin Mandy Casey Cross examined
Speaker 1: the lead homicide cop in the case, Detective Senior Constable
Speaker 1: Stephen Eppingstall. The Crown has told the jury Patterson's main
Speaker 1: mobile phone with her primary SIM card they're calling it
Speaker 1: phone A, has never been recovered by police. The juries
Speaker 1: heard that on five August twenty twenty three, as the
Speaker 1: elderly lunch guests were critically ill in hospital or on
Speaker 1: their way to the Morgue police showed up to search
Speaker 1: Patterson's home. The Crown says it was during that search
Speaker 1: that Patterson took her main sim out of phone A,
Speaker 1: a Samsung Galaxy, and put it in a Nokia phone.
Speaker 1: The Crown says she then surrendered a totally different device,
Speaker 1: phone B, to the police when they asked for her phone.
Speaker 1: Here's Colin Mandy Cross examining Cop Stephen epping Stall. We've
Speaker 1: used voice actors.
Speaker 2: Is it the case that you and miss Patterson had
Speaker 2: a discussion about the Nokia mobile phone.
Speaker 3: In the record of interview, she did mention that there
Speaker 3: was a Nokia In.
Speaker 1: The police interview, Patterson said this about the Nokia. It's
Speaker 1: a really old Nokia that I've got for like, you know,
Speaker 1: if you break your phone and you've got to send
Speaker 1: it away for repairs, so it's this really old thing.
Speaker 2: But you don't recall having seized that phone.
Speaker 3: No, we definitely didn't seize the Nokia.
Speaker 2: Because your case is that the Nokia came into use
Speaker 2: after that time. Yes, sir, so it couldn't have been
Speaker 2: seized because you would have had it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mandy showed epping staol a police photo from.
Speaker 2: The Do you know what that black item is sitting
Speaker 2: on the window sill?
Speaker 3: No, I've got no idea, sir.
Speaker 2: Can I suggest that is phone? A? In a case?
Speaker 3: I don't think that's consistent with the phone, but it's
Speaker 3: a matter for the jury.
Speaker 2: I'd say, sir, you don't exclude that possibility.
Speaker 3: If that was a phone, I would think we would
Speaker 3: have seized it.
Speaker 1: After the search. On August five, Eppingstall took Aaron Patterson
Speaker 1: to warm Thaggy police station for an interview. The video
Speaker 1: of that conversation was played to the jury earlier this week.
Speaker 1: The Crown alleges that during that interview, Patterson gave police
Speaker 1: the phone number not for her main phone, which they
Speaker 1: say they've never found, but for a different device, phone B,
Speaker 1: which the Crown says she had loaded with a SIM
Speaker 1: card that she'd taken out of a Samsung tablet.
Speaker 2: You knew that Aaron Patterson was utilizing the phone number
Speaker 2: ending in seven eighty three prior to the execution of
Speaker 2: the search warrant. Yes, that is correct, and you didn't
Speaker 2: ask her about the fact of the seven eight three
Speaker 2: mobile number in the record of interview.
Speaker 3: No, I asked her for a phone number in the
Speaker 3: record of interview, and I didn't realize that she hadn't
Speaker 3: given me that number. I just wrote it down and
Speaker 3: just moved past it.
Speaker 2: She gave you the phone number of the phone she
Speaker 2: surrendered to police earlier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, I just wrote it down and didn't give
Speaker 3: it any more thought until later on.
Speaker 1: Mandy put it to epping Stall that phone a was
Speaker 1: at one point being used by Aaron Patterson's teenage son.
Speaker 1: Epping Stall said he didn't know coming up. Did Aaron
Speaker 1: Patterson really search the web for deathcat mushrooms. One of
Speaker 1: the pieces of evidence the Crown has put before the
Speaker 1: jury is web searches made by Aaron Patterson on her computer,
Speaker 1: a Cooler Master brand, which police found in her home
Speaker 1: on the top shelf of her son's bedroom cupboard. The
Speaker 1: Crown showed the jury screenshots of a website called eye Naturalist,
Speaker 1: where citizen scientists or real scientists can upload images of
Speaker 1: and information about flora and fauna they've spotted in the wild.
Speaker 1: The screenshots showed to the jury suggested searches had been
Speaker 1: made on that computer for deathcap mushrooms, but Colin Mandy
Speaker 1: k C for Aaron Patterson wanted to know if the
Speaker 1: cops could actually prove that these web searches allegedly conducted
Speaker 1: by Aaron Patterson in May twenty twenty two showed anything
Speaker 1: important at all. Epping still agreed he had analyzed Patterson's
Speaker 1: alleged web activity in December twenty twenty four, so nineteen
Speaker 1: months after the searches.
Speaker 2: Other than the fact this is a page with the
Speaker 2: same name, same URL, same address, you don't have any
Speaker 2: evidence as to what the landing page for this URL
Speaker 2: was in May twenty twenty two. No, I don't, sir,
Speaker 2: Or if it was this landing page in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: whether any of the details contained on it were the
Speaker 2: same then yes.
Speaker 1: Mandy also asked Eppingstall why the police's mobile phone expert,
Speaker 1: Dr Matthew Cerrell had not done a more detailed report
Speaker 1: on some aspects of the evidence about where Patterson's phone
Speaker 1: was allegedly pinging mobile phone towers. If you've been following
Speaker 1: the trial, you might recall Doctor Currell told the jury
Speaker 1: that Aaron Patterson's phone allegedly pinned mobile phone towers in
Speaker 1: the area where deathcat mushrooms had recently been reported on
Speaker 1: the Eye Naturalist website. Eppingstall said he was restricted by
Speaker 1: costs and only did the most detailed search called an EBM,
Speaker 1: for a limited number of days.
Speaker 2: Is there a reason why EBM data wasn't obtained for
Speaker 2: all of the days in the relevant period.
Speaker 3: Yeah, A very good reason is it's very cross prohibitive. EBMs.
Speaker 3: When they first came out a couple of years ago,
Speaker 3: they were about seventeen hundred dollars for two hours. I
Speaker 3: know that price has come down a fair bit, but
Speaker 3: to get EBMs for a period every year, we'd be
Speaker 3: talking well into six figures. And my boss isn't real
Speaker 3: keen when I spend too much money.
Speaker 1: Epping Stool also said.
Speaker 3: Look, Professor Surrel likes to upsell us in a lot
Speaker 3: of things. We've got to be careful with what we
Speaker 3: tell him, and so just because we don't want the
Speaker 3: evidence to be tainted, we give him very little instructions.
Speaker 1: The trial continues in the Victorian Supreme Court, sitting at
Speaker 1: more Well in the Latrobe Valley. You can follow live
Speaker 1: coverage by our reporters Elie Dudley and John ferguson anytime
Speaker 1: at the Australian dot Com dot Au