WEBVTT - #1955 Hijacking The Human Mind - David Gillepsie 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.560 I get aur groovers. Welcome to another installment of the 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:07.320 show Tippany and Cook. David Bryan, Kevin Patrick James Gillespie, 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.480 the less talented of the two Gillespies I've had on 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.760 the show today, joins us. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:14.600 Will say lighter, tiff Hi, tiv. 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:15.680 Hi, harps. 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.959 I'm standing up at my standing desk for the first 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:19.599 time in twenty twenty five. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.360 How is it? It's good? Huh. 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:24.680 I'll pa sick of it soon. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:26.560 Yeah, I need to. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:30.639 What exactly is the point of a standing desk. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:36.720 Again, because we weren't built to sit galispo because flexes. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:37.720 It gives us time. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.520 So us and all those muscles and you old people, 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:43.480 I mean, feel free. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.000 That's your age. It's a wonder you can even get 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:46.920 in and out of a chair. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.280 But that's true us youngsters, Us youngsters, we need to 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:54.280 maintain integrity through the hip muscles and lower back. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.279 And so you can get so you can get into 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.120 your portion out again. Yeah, because it's so. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.760 Low, saving up for fucking salad. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:02.560 So don't start. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.600 Only one of us on this call who's rich and 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:10.240 were to get this. There's only one of us who's 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:16.280 sold more than three books and mum bought too, so 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:17.560 that was fucking tragic. 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:20.800 How are you gless, bo? 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.520 Yeah good, Yeah, I'm sitting. I'm sitting at a desk, 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.119 by the way, and I never intend to be standing. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:34.199 I am also sitting at a desk, Tiff. What led 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.520 to the new kind of standing format. 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.200 I've been doing a lot of work lately and a 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.840 lot of sitting, and so I just decided to stand up. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.480 And it's good if I leave it up, then I'll 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.560 come in and I won't just sit down as it 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:50.000 to have it. 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:52.640 I used to think that too when I bought my 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.320 million dollar two motor electric desk. 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.080 And all I do is sit at the fucking thing. 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.760 I just tell everyone how good I was, because I'd 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.520 like sit for four hours, stand four hours, like hour on, 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.080 hour off. All I do is sit now. So I'm 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.040 with gillespo So I'm full of shit. So don't listen 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:08.280 to me. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.840 At least you know you could stand if you wanted to. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:18.080 Yes, yes, yes, Tiff. Here's my question. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:19.880 Before we talk to the great Man and we tap 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:24.560 into that big, massive prefrontal cortex of his and all 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.600 the other bits, can you focus and concentrate as much 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.040 when you stand is it the same, better or worse? 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.440 Because it took me a minute to get used to it. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.080 No, I think it's the same for me. It's good, 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:43.760 it's not, no, no different, okay, just a better position. 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:45.840 I don't I find when I sit I end up 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.160 slouching and wriggling and fidgeting. So just is me a 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:50.720 break from that? 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.280 Well, beautiful, mister Gillespie. 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.920 So we spoke a while ago, and we've spoken like 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.840 periodically and pieces about the idea of building a cult 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.920 and the different kinds of cults. And you know, I 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:13.200 think a lot of pyramid marketing is cultish, and you know, 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:14.880 a cult doesn't have to be religious. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:15.400 We know that. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.360 But you actually created a kind of a or you 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.200 wrote like a five step playbook, yes, a kind of 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.240 a how to guide, which I think is so generous 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.600 of you, like literally a five step plan on building 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.120 a cult for those would be cult leaders who listen. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:37.320 And I know who you are. What was the prompt 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:37.680 for this? 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.680 Like what, well, talking to you last week last time 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.600 was the prompt because I said, you know, you really 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.200 just need to create a cult. And I said, it's 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.640 a pretty simple formula. And I didn't really run through 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.240 what the formula was, so I was a bit of 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.240 a teaser for you, but I thought, you know, I 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.320 actually have never written down what the formula for creating 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.320 a cult is, so I thought I should do that, 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:03.440 So I wrote that piece. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.120 Is it pretty similar? I mean, you'll tell us. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:10.000 But the five steps and the principles that work in 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:15.720 say a religious or spiritual context similar in other contexts 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.240 or areas. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.839 It's in everything. Because the cult, what we're calling a cult, 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:29.640 is actually just a hack to the way humans are wired. So, 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.640 and we've talked about this before, which is the key 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:38.359 differentiator for humans as a species and why we're able 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.280 to dominate the planet even though we're a terrible predator, 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.599 no teeth, no venom, no scales, nothing, you know, we're 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:51.320 basically meat on feet for an alligator or crocodile or 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:55.800 a great white shark or even a koala bear. Really, then, 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.640 how we defeat that is that we're the only species 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:05.440 that can cooperate with strangers and regularly does so we 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.280 can work in groups of one hundred or ten thousand, 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.520 a million and be just fine. No other species on 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.000 the planet can do that. Now, people, whenever I say 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.320 they'd always say, oh, yeah, but what about ants. Well, 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:25.520 ants aren't individuals. Ants are an animal with severable moving parts. 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.359 So you know, an ants nest or a bees hive 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.760 is all one organism. It just has bits that move independently. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.440 They're not individuals. You don't see bees making individual decisions 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.120 about what they're going to do today. Oh, I feel 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:42.600 like I want to take the day off today, so 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.000 I'll let you guys go out and get the pollen. 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.320 That's not how bees work. They're part of one organism. 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:56.520 And humans, however, unlike every other species, can cooperate with 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.640 strangers because we have some built in mechanism that allow 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:05.160 us to do it. That we've evolved relatively recently, and 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.440 a key mechanism is that we do things for the 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:15.000 approval of others. So dogs don't care what other dogs 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:20.680 think of them, and neither the sharks. Humans care a 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:25.479 lot what other humans think of them, and it motivates us, 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.920 so we are motivated to do things that we think 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.800 other people will like. Now you can imagine that that 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.320 would be a pretty powerful glue for getting us to 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.920 cooperate in large groups. If we get a large group 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.599 of people together and give them a motivation and some 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.640 of us start doing it, then the rest of this 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.880 will start doing it too, because we want to please 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.599 those that are doing the thing that obviously large numbers 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:58.640 of humans want us to do. So that automatic grouping 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.799 or coalescing, where we always automatically seek the approval of others, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.320 works to make us very powerful because we can cooperate 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:11.600 in large groups of strangers, and it means we won't intentionally, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.760 most of the time, hurt each other because that's generally 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.640 not going to make us popular with other humans. So 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.240 that's not something you can say about any other species. 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.560 They will behave that way with their own family members 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.960 because of DNA, and we could go to that in 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:33.120 great detail, but we won't, but beyond that, they won't. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.680 And so the difficulty then for other species is that 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.400 when you get two groups of elephants coming together, if 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.920 they're not related to each other, they're the enemy, whereas 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:50.080 with humans they are potentially a uniting force, which makes 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.880 them all much more powerful. So that's the advantage. The 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.280 downside to this is that it can be manipulated by 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:04.080 bad actors, and that's what a cult is. A cult 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:08.520 is a bad actor who creates a system of belief 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.320 for a large group of humans that is all about 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:19.800 empowering them to achieve their aims by getting people to 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.360 behave that way. And it's just a hack on that 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.560 self approval system, and it's a pretty easy thing to do. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.240 All you've got to do is well, a be charismatic. 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.520 So I guess that rules you an eye out, Craig, 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:39.360 but you know, TIFF's got a chance. And the definition 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.560 of charismatic here is someone who people want to follow. 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:48.560 So if it doesn't necessarily mean good looking, it means 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:54.160 someone who people find compelled to listen to. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:59.640 Yes, so, and I guess attractive, not in the physical sense, 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.320 but that they are attracted to their energy, like you said, 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.160 their charisma, their ideas. 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.360 Yeah, well it can be in the physical sense too, 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.199 you know, and often is. But there's also plenty of 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.240 examples where the leaders of cults or the things that 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.320 I'm describing here, and I keep using the word cult, 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.360 but it describes anything, right, It describes a political party, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:24.040 it describes a religion. It does describe what people traditionally 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.640 call a cult, but any kind of movement where large 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:33.600 groups of people are mobilized to a cause by a leader, 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:35.840 and that leader. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.920 Is by definition, that would make religion's. 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:45.240 Cults of course, yes so, And it makes the MAGA 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.800 crowd in the United States a cult. It makes anyone 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:53.079 who gets that absolutely devoted following where And you can 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:58.200 tell when it's a cult because it's impervious to logic. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:01.760 We'll talk about that in a little bit more detail 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:06.440 about how that's achieved. But it's impervious to logic. You 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.480 can throw facts at it till you blow on the face, 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.600 and the people who are believers in the cult will 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.280 not change their point of view at all. 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:19.439 Ever, And I guess you could also call sporting fans 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.640 cult members in that sense that it's very emotional, it's 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.240 very irrational, it's very us versus them. It's like we're 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.880 the best, everyone else is the worst. We're right, they're wrong, 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.600 they're shit, We're great. That's cultie. 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.480 It's a weak form of it. Yes, so, there are 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.720 probably a core group of fans who very definitely behave 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.360 like a cult. What they often like is a leader though, 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.240 so a leader is a core component of this. There 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.880 has to be someone who is projecting the core message 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.280 of the cult, and a sports team is not a leader. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.280 A sports team is a common interest and yes, there 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.200 are people who are radically committed to it and will 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.080 brook no criticism of it at all, but it's still 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.040 what I would call a weak version of it. But 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.520 it is using the same mechanism in the human brain, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.000 which is they're doing things that they think the other 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.320 people who believe the same things as them will approve of, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.600 and it will therefore increase their status with those people. 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.559 It's the same, by the way, at an even looser level, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.240 when someone goes to say, you know, a stand up 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:26.920 comedian performance, if the audience is laughing, you're laughing even 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:31.920 if it's not funny, because it's part of a group 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:36.320 of humans behaving in a way that pleases the other humans. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:43.800 So those are all examples of that in action, but 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.800 it isn't. None of those things are a cult unless 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.680 you've got that core ingredient of a leader. So you 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.679 need a leader. The leader has to be charismatic in 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.560 some way. There has to be something about that leader 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:02.320 that causes people to listen to what they say, because 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.280 if you don't listen to what the leader says, you 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:09.360 can't create a cult. So, because the core in a 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.960 cult is what comes out of a person's mouth, what 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.640 are they saying that you are finding as an intrinsically 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.560 powerful belief to hold so at the core of every cult. 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.560 So if we look at, say, for example, the Nazis, 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.400 which your classic cult, you have a leader there not 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:33.480 particularly good looking, but very charismatic in you know, tif, 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.640 I see a smiling she obviously found Hitler quite attractive, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.839 but there, you know, I think generally not regarded as 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.199 particularly good looking. But he said some really powerful things, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.080 and he said things to people who wanted to hear 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:52.160 exactly these things. So when he rose to power at 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:56.600 the end, well in between the wars, I mean, Germany 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:04.280 was being destroyed by dream punishments driven largely by France 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.800 economic punishments that were destroying the German economy. Life was 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.520 getting hard and harder in that economy, and they wanted 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.040 to hear someone who had a solution for them. And 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.400 Hitler didn't just offer a solution which would be dry 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.800 enough and could be any political party. It came with 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.920 a really nice message. It came with a message that said, 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.760 you are part of the Aryan race. You, the German people, 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.080 the German speaking people, are part of the Aryan race. 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.360 You are superior to all of these other people who 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.880 are trying to take you down, and all of these 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.800 other people are your enemies. So he gave them an ideal, 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.800 which is you are special. The people who follow me, 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.560 the people who believe in the things I say, are 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:57.760 special people, you know, gifted people, you know, apart from 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:03.120 the others, and created a US and them narrative which 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.720 he then just fed into with the other elements of 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.960 cult building. But that's a key part of creating a cult. 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.800 So when you create your cult, Craig, let's assuming you 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.240 can be charismatic to have one. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.280 Can you not talk about my cult straight after you 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:20.160 talk about God? 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:20.480 Say? 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.040 But but when you create it, you're going to have 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:25.840 to have that key message. You're going to have to 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:30.320 have the message that the harp Rights are better people, Okay, 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.880 just better people in general. They're they're fitter, they're healthier, 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.880 they're you know, you're going to have to find some 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.920 characteristics that unite the harp Rights in their belief that 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.840 they are better than everybody else, okay, And so that 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.280 you need to create that us and them narrative because 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.480 that's a key part of this cognitive tool that we 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.880 have in our brain. There has to be there has 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.160 to be an us who are bound together by a 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.640 common belief, and there has to be them who are 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.720 the out siders who don't believe these things. 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.360 Yeah. Wow, I've never been less inclined to start a cult. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.640 But it is I remember you were saying, and we'll 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.760 jump straight back into where you're at. But one of 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.000 the things that really resonated with me last time we 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.479 spoke about this was you said, you know those religions 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:24.480 where there's these kind of world ending or world changing 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.000 events that are coming on a certain day, and these 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.080 people in these cults believe this, and then the day 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.560 comes and goes and the event didn't happen. So rather 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.440 than people going, oh, well, old mates full of shit. 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.920 So clearly he's not connected to God. Clearly he or 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.160 she doesn't really have any mystical, magical, mythical insight. 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.240 And they don't leave the cult. 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.000 Some of them do, but a lot of them, you know, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.760 stay and just kind of like reason and logic and 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:01.040 critical thinking goes out the window because they're so intertwined 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.240 with this thing that the idea of leaving is scarier 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.480 than the idea that old mate might be wrong. 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:12.160 And that's another key element. So that is demanding escalating investment. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.800 So you have to demand that people commit more and 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:20.120 more and more to the cult. So the example you're 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.200 talking about there, well, I mean there were quite a 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.880 few in the eighteen hundreds, but the biggest and most 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.560 famous one was William Miller. William Miller who was a 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.960 preacher in the eighteen forties, and he predicted that on 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:37.040 October twenty second, eighteen forty four, Christ would return to 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.760 Earth and the gates to Heaven would be open, and 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.240 only true believers would be admitted in. And so his 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.680 cult consisted of the true believers and everybody else. And 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.400 the true believers, yeah, I ended up being about one 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.080 hundred thousand of them by the time you got to 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:04.080 October twenty second. But he demanded escalating commitment. So in 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.920 order to demonstrate their belief, they had to rid themselves 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.159 of all worldly possessions because they wouldn't need them because 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.040 on October twenty second they would be being admitted to heaven. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.560 So admitted very clinical. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.439 It's not unlike, it's not unlike I could be fucking 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:21.800 this up. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:22.800 I think I've got it right. 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.040 The Jehovah's witnesses who think who believe one hundred and 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.679 forty four thousand will be transcended to heaven on the 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.440 last day, but there's a lot more than one hundred 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.680 and forty four thousand Jehovah's witnesses. 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.280 Yeah, so I guess someone going to miss out. 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.080 But that's a problem. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.720 But he regarded part of his thing was you had 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.560 to be you had to demonstrate total commitment. So his 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.440 believers gave away their property, abandon their farms, gave away 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:56.560 their world It possessions, and were regarded as being totally 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.240 insane by almost everybody else. But that actually helped the 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:05.280 narrative that proves the US versus them. You know, we 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.560 are the true believers. Those people who are making fun 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.879 of us are the evil people who don't understand. So 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.640 now the fact that we are now passed October twenty second, 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:22.640 eighteen forty four and still Jesus hasn't turned up might 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.560 seem like it's a bit of a problem. 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.800 And you're right, Jesus hasn't turned up. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.879 That's the name of the show, tip and so what 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.000 we're going to call it Jesus hasn't turned up. With 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.919 the little hands in the air emoji, do you know 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:44.560 Jesus hasn't turned up emoji the oldest shrug emojill. 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:49.959 So anyway, October twenty third, eighteen forty four rolls around. 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.160 Everything's still the same as it was the day before. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:19:00.680 And that's subsequently became called the Great Disappointment, which to 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:05.200 me is a bit of an understatement. So the disappointment occurred, 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:11.879 and there were some people who that caused to lose faith, 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.680 believe it or not, who left the church and who 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.720 didn't believe any longer. But there was a fairly large 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:24.520 group of people who said, ah, well, we just we 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:29.359 must have must have misunderstood the calculations or misunderstood the scriptures, 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.240 et cetera, et cetera. And in fact it split the place. 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.280 The things split into about three or four main groupings 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.040 of people who had different explanations for why, but they 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:40.879 all believed that it was still right. It was just 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:46.040 something had been misinterpreted. The one that Brian in accounting 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.720 that's right. Well, one of the groups actually survived and 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.080 now has millions of followers today. So the group that 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.320 survived we now call the Seventh day Adventist Church, and 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.480 they were one of the groups of the Miller Rights 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.960 that came through the disappointment, and their rationalization for why 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.639 it didn't work was, oh, listen, old mate, Miller. He 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.760 stuffed up the message because what was actually going to 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:19.600 happen was Jesus was going to come to his place 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.720 in heaven, and all of this was supposed to occur 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.800 in heaven, and it did occur in heaven from people 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.320 who had already passed, and and so you stuffed it 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:30.920 up thinking that it was going to happen on earth. 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.000 The convenient thing about the in Heaven story is that 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.040 there was no way to verify whether it had happened 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:36.399 or not. 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:40.520 I know it did happen. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:42.000 Yeah, you just enjoyed. 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:46.840 There really just not anywhere that we can verify. But 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:48.560 it definitely did. 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.480 Yes, yes, you know you don't know my boyfriend. He's 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:56.840 from Canada, so the I knew you had a boyfriend. 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:03.320 So anyway, the reason that that happens from a cognitive perspective, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.640 from a biochemical perspective is you know what accountants called 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.680 the sunk cost fallacy, which is the more we invest 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.800 in something, the less easy we find it to pull 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.600 away from it. So the more invested we are in 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.920 the message, if we've given away, our home, our car, 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.520 our farm, towards our wife, et cetera, et cetera. Because 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.880 of this belief escalating investment required of this cult, then 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:33.200 even though it didn't happen, it still must be true 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.840 because I've given up everything, so that the thought process 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.360 is I've given up everything for this, therefore it must 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.560 be the truth. And you can see that same process 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:47.520 occurring in cults all the time. It makes them impervious 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:48.040 to logic. 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.600 Well, also when you think about the fact that people 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.760 have like got this, some of them ten twenty thirty 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.879 forty year relationship with this ideology, philosophy, theology, fill in, 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:04.040 fill in your own ology, and their identity is intertwined 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.480 with that. And if you tell them your identity like 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.199 that thing that you identify with, that thing that is 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.840 essentially you, it isn't true. Well that's got to be 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.040 terrifying for them. So they don't know who they are now. 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.360 So you defy reason and logic and evidence and go. 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:23.719 You know, I was thinking as you were talking a 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.960 little bit, this is not extremely dissimilar to your theory 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.040 or not your theory. A lot of people's theory and 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:37.640 evidence and science around seed oils versus mainstream Yes, dietetics. 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:45.600 Yeah, say again, it's the same cost fallacy. It's we've 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.959 invested so much in this, it must be right, yes, 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:54.639 and so it becomes impervious to science that proves it isn't, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.879 because that would mean that you would have to un 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.800 leave everything you've spent your entire life believing. 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:05.479 Yeah, what do you think that? 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:11.080 Like? Why are we We're getting philosophical now and we 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.680 haven't even done step one, which is isolate the subject 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:16.320 and become the source of validation. This could be the 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:22.000 longest Gillespie show ever. By the way, everyone, it is 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:24.679 a really good article. It is on if you go 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:30.679 to de Gillespie dot substack dot com you'll find it there. 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.760 It's one of the best articles I think you've ever written. 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.159 I loved it. But I'm fascinated with this shit. I've 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:39.919 got no idea what I was saying. Carry on. 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:43.520 So yeah, So there's different steps to this. The first 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.880 one if you're going to go full cold, right, I mean, 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.320 there's different ways to do this. Many of the sort 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:55.000 of more modern day cults start from they've got a 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.879 bit of a leg up because they've got social media 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:02.159 to help them. So social media sort of reinforces the 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:04.600 mechanisms I've been talking about. There, you no longer have 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.040 to get in a group of people and convince them 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:14.560 personally of something. You can access millions of people simultaneously 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:17.159 with a message, and some of them will catch on 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:22.160