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Speaker 1: I get aur groovers. Welcome to another installment of the

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Speaker 1: show Tippany and Cook. David Bryan, Kevin Patrick James Gillespie,

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Speaker 1: the less talented of the two Gillespies I've had on

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Speaker 1: the show today, joins us.

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Speaker 2: Will say lighter, tiff Hi, tiv.

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Speaker 3: Hi, harps.

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Speaker 4: I'm standing up at my standing desk for the first

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Speaker 4: time in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: How is it? It's good? Huh.

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Speaker 4: I'll pa sick of it soon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I need to.

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Speaker 3: What exactly is the point of a standing desk.

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Speaker 1: Again, because we weren't built to sit galispo because flexes.

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Speaker 2: It gives us time.

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Speaker 1: So us and all those muscles and you old people,

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Speaker 1: I mean, feel free.

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Speaker 2: That's your age. It's a wonder you can even get

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Speaker 2: in and out of a chair.

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Speaker 1: But that's true us youngsters, Us youngsters, we need to

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Speaker 1: maintain integrity through the hip muscles and lower back.

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Speaker 3: And so you can get so you can get into

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Speaker 3: your portion out again. Yeah, because it's so.

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Speaker 1: Low, saving up for fucking salad.

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Speaker 2: So don't start.

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Speaker 1: Only one of us on this call who's rich and

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Speaker 1: were to get this. There's only one of us who's

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Speaker 1: sold more than three books and mum bought too, so

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Speaker 1: that was fucking tragic.

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Speaker 2: How are you gless, bo?

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Speaker 3: Yeah good, Yeah, I'm sitting. I'm sitting at a desk,

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Speaker 3: by the way, and I never intend to be standing.

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Speaker 1: I am also sitting at a desk, Tiff. What led

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Speaker 1: to the new kind of standing format.

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Speaker 4: I've been doing a lot of work lately and a

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Speaker 4: lot of sitting, and so I just decided to stand up.

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Speaker 4: And it's good if I leave it up, then I'll

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Speaker 4: come in and I won't just sit down as it

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Speaker 4: to have it.

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Speaker 1: I used to think that too when I bought my

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Speaker 1: million dollar two motor electric desk.

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Speaker 2: And all I do is sit at the fucking thing.

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Speaker 1: I just tell everyone how good I was, because I'd

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Speaker 1: like sit for four hours, stand four hours, like hour on,

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Speaker 1: hour off. All I do is sit now. So I'm

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Speaker 1: with gillespo So I'm full of shit. So don't listen

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 3: At least you know you could stand if you wanted to.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, Tiff. Here's my question.

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Speaker 1: Before we talk to the great Man and we tap

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Speaker 1: into that big, massive prefrontal cortex of his and all

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Speaker 1: the other bits, can you focus and concentrate as much

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Speaker 1: when you stand is it the same, better or worse?

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Speaker 2: Because it took me a minute to get used to it.

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Speaker 4: No, I think it's the same for me. It's good,

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Speaker 4: it's not, no, no different, okay, just a better position.

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Speaker 4: I don't I find when I sit I end up

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Speaker 4: slouching and wriggling and fidgeting. So just is me a

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Speaker 4: break from that?

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Speaker 2: Well, beautiful, mister Gillespie.

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Speaker 1: So we spoke a while ago, and we've spoken like

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Speaker 1: periodically and pieces about the idea of building a cult

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Speaker 1: and the different kinds of cults. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of pyramid marketing is cultish, and you know,

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Speaker 1: a cult doesn't have to be religious.

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Speaker 2: We know that.

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Speaker 1: But you actually created a kind of a or you

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Speaker 1: wrote like a five step playbook, yes, a kind of

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Speaker 1: a how to guide, which I think is so generous

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Speaker 1: of you, like literally a five step plan on building

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Speaker 1: a cult for those would be cult leaders who listen.

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Speaker 2: And I know who you are. What was the prompt

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Speaker 2: for this?

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Speaker 3: Like what, well, talking to you last week last time

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Speaker 3: was the prompt because I said, you know, you really

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Speaker 3: just need to create a cult. And I said, it's

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Speaker 3: a pretty simple formula. And I didn't really run through

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Speaker 3: what the formula was, so I was a bit of

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Speaker 3: a teaser for you, but I thought, you know, I

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Speaker 3: actually have never written down what the formula for creating

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Speaker 3: a cult is, so I thought I should do that,

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Speaker 3: So I wrote that piece.

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Speaker 2: Is it pretty similar? I mean, you'll tell us.

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Speaker 1: But the five steps and the principles that work in

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Speaker 1: say a religious or spiritual context similar in other contexts

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Speaker 1: or areas.

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Speaker 3: It's in everything. Because the cult, what we're calling a cult,

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Speaker 3: is actually just a hack to the way humans are wired. So,

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Speaker 3: and we've talked about this before, which is the key

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Speaker 3: differentiator for humans as a species and why we're able

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Speaker 3: to dominate the planet even though we're a terrible predator,

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Speaker 3: no teeth, no venom, no scales, nothing, you know, we're

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Speaker 3: basically meat on feet for an alligator or crocodile or

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Speaker 3: a great white shark or even a koala bear. Really, then,

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Speaker 3: how we defeat that is that we're the only species

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Speaker 3: that can cooperate with strangers and regularly does so we

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Speaker 3: can work in groups of one hundred or ten thousand,

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Speaker 3: a million and be just fine. No other species on

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Speaker 3: the planet can do that. Now, people, whenever I say

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Speaker 3: they'd always say, oh, yeah, but what about ants. Well,

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Speaker 3: ants aren't individuals. Ants are an animal with severable moving parts.

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Speaker 3: So you know, an ants nest or a bees hive

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Speaker 3: is all one organism. It just has bits that move independently.

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Speaker 3: They're not individuals. You don't see bees making individual decisions

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Speaker 3: about what they're going to do today. Oh, I feel

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Speaker 3: like I want to take the day off today, so

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Speaker 3: I'll let you guys go out and get the pollen.

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Speaker 3: That's not how bees work. They're part of one organism.

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Speaker 3: And humans, however, unlike every other species, can cooperate with

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Speaker 3: strangers because we have some built in mechanism that allow

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Speaker 3: us to do it. That we've evolved relatively recently, and

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Speaker 3: a key mechanism is that we do things for the

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Speaker 3: approval of others. So dogs don't care what other dogs

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Speaker 3: think of them, and neither the sharks. Humans care a

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Speaker 3: lot what other humans think of them, and it motivates us,

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Speaker 3: so we are motivated to do things that we think

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Speaker 3: other people will like. Now you can imagine that that

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Speaker 3: would be a pretty powerful glue for getting us to

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Speaker 3: cooperate in large groups. If we get a large group

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Speaker 3: of people together and give them a motivation and some

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Speaker 3: of us start doing it, then the rest of this

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Speaker 3: will start doing it too, because we want to please

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Speaker 3: those that are doing the thing that obviously large numbers

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Speaker 3: of humans want us to do. So that automatic grouping

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Speaker 3: or coalescing, where we always automatically seek the approval of others,

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Speaker 3: works to make us very powerful because we can cooperate

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Speaker 3: in large groups of strangers, and it means we won't intentionally,

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Speaker 3: most of the time, hurt each other because that's generally

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Speaker 3: not going to make us popular with other humans. So

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Speaker 3: that's not something you can say about any other species.

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Speaker 3: They will behave that way with their own family members

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Speaker 3: because of DNA, and we could go to that in

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Speaker 3: great detail, but we won't, but beyond that, they won't.

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Speaker 3: And so the difficulty then for other species is that

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Speaker 3: when you get two groups of elephants coming together, if

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Speaker 3: they're not related to each other, they're the enemy, whereas

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Speaker 3: with humans they are potentially a uniting force, which makes

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Speaker 3: them all much more powerful. So that's the advantage. The

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Speaker 3: downside to this is that it can be manipulated by

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Speaker 3: bad actors, and that's what a cult is. A cult

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Speaker 3: is a bad actor who creates a system of belief

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Speaker 3: for a large group of humans that is all about

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Speaker 3: empowering them to achieve their aims by getting people to

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Speaker 3: behave that way. And it's just a hack on that

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Speaker 3: self approval system, and it's a pretty easy thing to do.

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Speaker 3: All you've got to do is well, a be charismatic.

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Speaker 3: So I guess that rules you an eye out, Craig,

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Speaker 3: but you know, TIFF's got a chance. And the definition

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Speaker 3: of charismatic here is someone who people want to follow.

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Speaker 3: So if it doesn't necessarily mean good looking, it means

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Speaker 3: someone who people find compelled to listen to.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so, and I guess attractive, not in the physical sense,

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Speaker 1: but that they are attracted to their energy, like you said,

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Speaker 1: their charisma, their ideas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it can be in the physical sense too,

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Speaker 3: you know, and often is. But there's also plenty of

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Speaker 3: examples where the leaders of cults or the things that

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Speaker 3: I'm describing here, and I keep using the word cult,

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Speaker 3: but it describes anything, right, It describes a political party,

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Speaker 3: it describes a religion. It does describe what people traditionally

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Speaker 3: call a cult, but any kind of movement where large

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Speaker 3: groups of people are mobilized to a cause by a leader,

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Speaker 3: and that leader.

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Speaker 2: Is by definition, that would make religion's.

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Speaker 3: Cults of course, yes so, And it makes the MAGA

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Speaker 3: crowd in the United States a cult. It makes anyone

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Speaker 3: who gets that absolutely devoted following where And you can

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Speaker 3: tell when it's a cult because it's impervious to logic.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about that in a little bit more detail

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Speaker 3: about how that's achieved. But it's impervious to logic. You

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Speaker 3: can throw facts at it till you blow on the face,

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Speaker 3: and the people who are believers in the cult will

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Speaker 3: not change their point of view at all.

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Speaker 1: Ever, And I guess you could also call sporting fans

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Speaker 1: cult members in that sense that it's very emotional, it's

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Speaker 1: very irrational, it's very us versus them. It's like we're

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Speaker 1: the best, everyone else is the worst. We're right, they're wrong,

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Speaker 1: they're shit, We're great. That's cultie.

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Speaker 3: It's a weak form of it. Yes, so, there are

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Speaker 3: probably a core group of fans who very definitely behave

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Speaker 3: like a cult. What they often like is a leader though,

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Speaker 3: so a leader is a core component of this. There

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Speaker 3: has to be someone who is projecting the core message

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Speaker 3: of the cult, and a sports team is not a leader.

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Speaker 3: A sports team is a common interest and yes, there

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Speaker 3: are people who are radically committed to it and will

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Speaker 3: brook no criticism of it at all, but it's still

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Speaker 3: what I would call a weak version of it. But

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Speaker 3: it is using the same mechanism in the human brain,

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Speaker 3: which is they're doing things that they think the other

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Speaker 3: people who believe the same things as them will approve of,

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Speaker 3: and it will therefore increase their status with those people.

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Speaker 3: It's the same, by the way, at an even looser level,

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Speaker 3: when someone goes to say, you know, a stand up

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Speaker 3: comedian performance, if the audience is laughing, you're laughing even

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Speaker 3: if it's not funny, because it's part of a group

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Speaker 3: of humans behaving in a way that pleases the other humans.

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Speaker 3: So those are all examples of that in action, but

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Speaker 3: it isn't. None of those things are a cult unless

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Speaker 3: you've got that core ingredient of a leader. So you

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Speaker 3: need a leader. The leader has to be charismatic in

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Speaker 3: some way. There has to be something about that leader

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Speaker 3: that causes people to listen to what they say, because

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Speaker 3: if you don't listen to what the leader says, you

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Speaker 3: can't create a cult. So, because the core in a

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Speaker 3: cult is what comes out of a person's mouth, what

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Speaker 3: are they saying that you are finding as an intrinsically

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Speaker 3: powerful belief to hold so at the core of every cult.

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Speaker 3: So if we look at, say, for example, the Nazis,

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Speaker 3: which your classic cult, you have a leader there not

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Speaker 3: particularly good looking, but very charismatic in you know, tif,

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Speaker 3: I see a smiling she obviously found Hitler quite attractive,

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Speaker 3: but there, you know, I think generally not regarded as

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Speaker 3: particularly good looking. But he said some really powerful things,

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Speaker 3: and he said things to people who wanted to hear

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Speaker 3: exactly these things. So when he rose to power at

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Speaker 3: the end, well in between the wars, I mean, Germany

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Speaker 3: was being destroyed by dream punishments driven largely by France

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Speaker 3: economic punishments that were destroying the German economy. Life was

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Speaker 3: getting hard and harder in that economy, and they wanted

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Speaker 3: to hear someone who had a solution for them. And

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Speaker 3: Hitler didn't just offer a solution which would be dry

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Speaker 3: enough and could be any political party. It came with

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Speaker 3: a really nice message. It came with a message that said,

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Speaker 3: you are part of the Aryan race. You, the German people,

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Speaker 3: the German speaking people, are part of the Aryan race.

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Speaker 3: You are superior to all of these other people who

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Speaker 3: are trying to take you down, and all of these

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Speaker 3: other people are your enemies. So he gave them an ideal,

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Speaker 3: which is you are special. The people who follow me,

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Speaker 3: the people who believe in the things I say, are

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Speaker 3: special people, you know, gifted people, you know, apart from

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Speaker 3: the others, and created a US and them narrative which

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Speaker 3: he then just fed into with the other elements of

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Speaker 3: cult building. But that's a key part of creating a cult.

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Speaker 3: So when you create your cult, Craig, let's assuming you

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Speaker 3: can be charismatic to have one.

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Speaker 1: Can you not talk about my cult straight after you

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Speaker 1: talk about God?

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Speaker 2: Say?

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Speaker 3: But but when you create it, you're going to have

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Speaker 3: to have that key message. You're going to have to

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Speaker 3: have the message that the harp Rights are better people, Okay,

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Speaker 3: just better people in general. They're they're fitter, they're healthier,

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Speaker 3: they're you know, you're going to have to find some

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Speaker 3: characteristics that unite the harp Rights in their belief that

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Speaker 3: they are better than everybody else, okay, And so that

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Speaker 3: you need to create that us and them narrative because

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Speaker 3: that's a key part of this cognitive tool that we

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Speaker 3: have in our brain. There has to be there has

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Speaker 3: to be an us who are bound together by a

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Speaker 3: common belief, and there has to be them who are

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Speaker 3: the out siders who don't believe these things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, I've never been less inclined to start a cult.

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Speaker 1: But it is I remember you were saying, and we'll

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Speaker 1: jump straight back into where you're at. But one of

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Speaker 1: the things that really resonated with me last time we

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Speaker 1: spoke about this was you said, you know those religions

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Speaker 1: where there's these kind of world ending or world changing

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Speaker 1: events that are coming on a certain day, and these

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Speaker 1: people in these cults believe this, and then the day

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Speaker 1: comes and goes and the event didn't happen. So rather

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Speaker 1: than people going, oh, well, old mates full of shit.

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Speaker 1: So clearly he's not connected to God. Clearly he or

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Speaker 1: she doesn't really have any mystical, magical, mythical insight.

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Speaker 2: And they don't leave the cult.

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Speaker 1: Some of them do, but a lot of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: stay and just kind of like reason and logic and

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Speaker 1: critical thinking goes out the window because they're so intertwined

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Speaker 1: with this thing that the idea of leaving is scarier

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Speaker 1: than the idea that old mate might be wrong.

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Speaker 3: And that's another key element. So that is demanding escalating investment.

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Speaker 3: So you have to demand that people commit more and

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Speaker 3: more and more to the cult. So the example you're

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Speaker 3: talking about there, well, I mean there were quite a

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Speaker 3: few in the eighteen hundreds, but the biggest and most

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Speaker 3: famous one was William Miller. William Miller who was a

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Speaker 3: preacher in the eighteen forties, and he predicted that on

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Speaker 3: October twenty second, eighteen forty four, Christ would return to

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Speaker 3: Earth and the gates to Heaven would be open, and

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Speaker 3: only true believers would be admitted in. And so his

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Speaker 3: cult consisted of the true believers and everybody else. And

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Speaker 3: the true believers, yeah, I ended up being about one

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand of them by the time you got to

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Speaker 3: October twenty second. But he demanded escalating commitment. So in

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Speaker 3: order to demonstrate their belief, they had to rid themselves

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Speaker 3: of all worldly possessions because they wouldn't need them because

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Speaker 3: on October twenty second they would be being admitted to heaven.

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Speaker 2: So admitted very clinical.

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Speaker 1: It's not unlike, it's not unlike I could be fucking

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Speaker 1: this up.

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Speaker 2: I think I've got it right.

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Speaker 1: The Jehovah's witnesses who think who believe one hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty four thousand will be transcended to heaven on the

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Speaker 1: last day, but there's a lot more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty four thousand Jehovah's witnesses.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess someone going to miss out.

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Speaker 2: But that's a problem.

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Speaker 3: But he regarded part of his thing was you had

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Speaker 3: to be you had to demonstrate total commitment. So his

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Speaker 3: believers gave away their property, abandon their farms, gave away

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Speaker 3: their world It possessions, and were regarded as being totally

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Speaker 3: insane by almost everybody else. But that actually helped the

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Speaker 3: narrative that proves the US versus them. You know, we

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Speaker 3: are the true believers. Those people who are making fun

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Speaker 3: of us are the evil people who don't understand. So

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Speaker 3: now the fact that we are now passed October twenty second,

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Speaker 3: eighteen forty four and still Jesus hasn't turned up might

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Speaker 3: seem like it's a bit of a problem.

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Speaker 2: And you're right, Jesus hasn't turned up.

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Speaker 1: That's the name of the show, tip and so what

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Speaker 1: we're going to call it Jesus hasn't turned up. With

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Speaker 1: the little hands in the air emoji, do you know

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Speaker 1: Jesus hasn't turned up emoji the oldest shrug emojill.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, October twenty third, eighteen forty four rolls around.

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Speaker 3: Everything's still the same as it was the day before.

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Speaker 3: And that's subsequently became called the Great Disappointment, which to

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Speaker 3: me is a bit of an understatement. So the disappointment occurred,

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Speaker 3: and there were some people who that caused to lose faith,

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Speaker 3: believe it or not, who left the church and who

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Speaker 3: didn't believe any longer. But there was a fairly large

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Speaker 3: group of people who said, ah, well, we just we

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Speaker 3: must have must have misunderstood the calculations or misunderstood the scriptures,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. And in fact it split the place.

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Speaker 3: The things split into about three or four main groupings

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Speaker 3: of people who had different explanations for why, but they

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Speaker 3: all believed that it was still right. It was just

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Speaker 3: something had been misinterpreted. The one that Brian in accounting

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Speaker 3: that's right. Well, one of the groups actually survived and

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Speaker 3: now has millions of followers today. So the group that

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Speaker 3: survived we now call the Seventh day Adventist Church, and

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Speaker 3: they were one of the groups of the Miller Rights

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Speaker 3: that came through the disappointment, and their rationalization for why

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Speaker 3: it didn't work was, oh, listen, old mate, Miller. He

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Speaker 3: stuffed up the message because what was actually going to

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Speaker 3: happen was Jesus was going to come to his place

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Speaker 3: in heaven, and all of this was supposed to occur

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Speaker 3: in heaven, and it did occur in heaven from people

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Speaker 3: who had already passed, and and so you stuffed it

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Speaker 3: up thinking that it was going to happen on earth.

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Speaker 3: The convenient thing about the in Heaven story is that

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Speaker 3: there was no way to verify whether it had happened

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Speaker 3: or not.

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Speaker 2: I know it did happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you just enjoyed.

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Speaker 1: There really just not anywhere that we can verify. But

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Speaker 1: it definitely did.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you know you don't know my boyfriend. He's

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Speaker 3: from Canada, so the I knew you had a boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, the reason that that happens from a cognitive perspective,

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Speaker 3: from a biochemical perspective is you know what accountants called

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Speaker 3: the sunk cost fallacy, which is the more we invest

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Speaker 3: in something, the less easy we find it to pull

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Speaker 3: away from it. So the more invested we are in

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Speaker 3: the message, if we've given away, our home, our car,

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Speaker 3: our farm, towards our wife, et cetera, et cetera. Because

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Speaker 3: of this belief escalating investment required of this cult, then

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Speaker 3: even though it didn't happen, it still must be true

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Speaker 3: because I've given up everything, so that the thought process

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Speaker 3: is I've given up everything for this, therefore it must

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Speaker 3: be the truth. And you can see that same process

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Speaker 3: occurring in cults all the time. It makes them impervious

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Speaker 3: to logic.

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Speaker 1: Well, also when you think about the fact that people

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Speaker 1: have like got this, some of them ten twenty thirty

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Speaker 1: forty year relationship with this ideology, philosophy, theology, fill in,

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Speaker 1: fill in your own ology, and their identity is intertwined

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Speaker 1: with that. And if you tell them your identity like

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Speaker 1: that thing that you identify with, that thing that is

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Speaker 1: essentially you, it isn't true. Well that's got to be

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Speaker 1: terrifying for them. So they don't know who they are now.

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Speaker 1: So you defy reason and logic and evidence and go.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking as you were talking a

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Speaker 1: little bit, this is not extremely dissimilar to your theory

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Speaker 1: or not your theory. A lot of people's theory and

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Speaker 1: evidence and science around seed oils versus mainstream Yes, dietetics.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, say again, it's the same cost fallacy. It's we've

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Speaker 3: invested so much in this, it must be right, yes,

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Speaker 3: and so it becomes impervious to science that proves it isn't,

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Speaker 3: because that would mean that you would have to un

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Speaker 3: leave everything you've spent your entire life believing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think that?

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Speaker 1: Like? Why are we We're getting philosophical now and we

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Speaker 1: haven't even done step one, which is isolate the subject

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Speaker 1: and become the source of validation. This could be the

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Speaker 1: longest Gillespie show ever. By the way, everyone, it is

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Speaker 1: a really good article. It is on if you go

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Speaker 1: to de Gillespie dot substack dot com you'll find it there.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the best articles I think you've ever written.

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Speaker 2: I loved it. But I'm fascinated with this shit. I've

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Speaker 2: got no idea what I was saying. Carry on.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, So there's different steps to this. The first

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Speaker 3: one if you're going to go full cold, right, I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's different ways to do this. Many of the sort

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Speaker 3: of more modern day cults start from they've got a

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Speaker 3: bit of a leg up because they've got social media

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Speaker 3: to help them. So social media sort of reinforces the

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Speaker 3: mechanisms I've been talking about. There, you no longer have

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Speaker 3: to get in a group of people and convince them

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Speaker 3: personally of something. You can access millions of people simultaneously

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Speaker 3: with a message, and some of them will catch on

401
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Speaker 3: that message and receive validation from it, and the algorithm

402
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Speaker 3: will then keep feeding them even more of that message

403
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Speaker 3: and more validation. So it forces them into an echo

404
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Speaker 3: chamber where their own mind becomes a prison guard, defending

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Speaker 3: their commitment to the cult and causing them to attack

406
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Speaker 3: anything that arms the cult. So social media is a

407
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Speaker 3: massive accelerator for this massive accelerator. But back in the

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Speaker 3: olden days before social media, if you wanted to start

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Speaker 3: a cult, you actually had to isolate the subject. So

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Speaker 3: you had to find someone who was susceptible to your

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Speaker 3: messaging cut them off from any external value because they're

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Speaker 3: open to persuasion by someone else. In the early stages

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Speaker 3: of recruitment, if you're just talking to them one on one,

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Speaker 3: then they might find you very charismatic and believe everything

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Speaker 3: you say, and then they know they walk out in

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Speaker 3: the street and someone else says something else to them

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Speaker 3: as well, and they think, oh, hang on, maybe what

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Speaker 3: harp said is a load of bs I better reconsider.

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Speaker 3: So to avoid that kind of thing happening, you've got

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Speaker 3: to cut them off from that sort of communication. You've

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Speaker 3: got to make sure that the only messaging they're hearing

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Speaker 3: is your messaging, which so that usually involves, you know,

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Speaker 3: isolating them from their family, isolating them from their friends,

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Speaker 3: other networks. That can't be done instantly, but you start

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Speaker 3: in order to do that, you create very very frequent

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Speaker 3: meetings with them where you're controlling the messaging. As I said,

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Speaker 3: this is a bit old school because you don't need

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Speaker 3: to do that so much now because the algorithm does

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Speaker 3: it for you. So as soon as someone starts to

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Speaker 3: indicate a preference for a message, the algorithm starts isolating

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00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: them anyway, so that all they see is their echo

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Speaker 3: chamber of the things they think they believe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's so true. It's yeah.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, all it comes up on mine is health stuff,

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Speaker 1: fitness stuff, motorbike stuff, and stuff that for the most

436
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: part I align with anyway. So yeah, it's just feeding

437
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: you the stuff that you want to keep looking at.

438
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 3: That's right. And but once you've got them captured. Then

439
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 3: the last key ingredient that you've got to, you know,

440
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: the icing on the cake, is you've got to control

441
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: the narrative. You've got to you've got to make sure

442
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: that the messaging becomes your messaging, so people will still

443
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: be exposed to media which says something about your leader

444
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 3: that isn't pleasant. You know, believe it or not, there

445
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: are people out there saying really bad things about Trump,

446
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: for example, and yeah, apparently and myself back up off

447
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 3: the ground. And if you don't want that to start

448
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 3: affecting the movement and start chipping people off the edge,

449
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 3: you've got to give a counter narrative that is just

450
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: as strong, and you've got to put it on maximum blast.

451
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 3: So you've got to within the cult, you've got to

452
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 3: be distributing your own version of everything, your own version

453
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 3: of events, your own counter narrative, your own plausible deniability

454
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 3: for everything, because people outside the cult will start saying

455
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: that the bigger the cult becomes, the more nasty people

456
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 3: will get about you, its leader and its followers. You know,

457
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 3: it's like the poor Miller rights. You know, people calling

458
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 3: them learns because they gave away everything because you know,

459
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: the world was going to end, you have to have

460
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 3: a counter message going within the cult where you are

461
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: controlling the messaging and the language, so that they've always

462
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 3: got something to lean back on when someone from outside

463
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 3: says something nasty about their leader or them, they've got

464
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,959
Speaker 3: an answer to whatever the event is.

465
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm sure I was in a cult when I

466
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: was younger. But you know what is interesting about just

467
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: in terms of not so much specifically about religion, but

468
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: happens to be religious groups like just individual groups, like

469
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: there's whatever. There is twelve major religions thereabouts and four

470
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,239
Speaker 1: thousand minor religions there abouts three to four thousand, and

471
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly everyone who is in any of those religions thinks

472
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: pretty much that every other religion is wrong. It's, you know,

473
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: like it's the only kind of environment where all these

474
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: cult kind.

475
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: Of but that's a critical component. You have to believe

476
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 3: that or you're not in a cult.

477
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: Well, but isn't it funny how you can suspend intelligence

478
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: or reason or logic when you go, Okay, I just

479
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: ended up in this group. Now I'm in this group,

480
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: and there's another four thousand or so groups that don't

481
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: believe what don't have our ideology, philosophy, theology.

482
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: They're wrong.

483
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course that's the thing.

484
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: But what's the odds that, statistically, I just landed in

485
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: the one group that's got the direct hotline to God.

486
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: That's well, the one true whatever, even statistically, it's.

487
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: The one thing we all believe is that we're always right.

488
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: So the thing that every minute that you spend in

489
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: that cult reinforces your belief that you have made the

490
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 3: correct decision and that everybody else has made the wrong decision.

491
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: And every minute that you're in there, the sunk cost

492
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: fallacy gets stronger and stronger because you've devoted more time

493
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: now to this than anything else, so you've made the

494
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: correct decision until you get to the point like the

495
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 3: Miller rights, where facts collide with with your beliefs and

496
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 3: it still can't change things because you have then got

497
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: the mindset this can't be true because I have invested

498
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: so much in it.

499
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

500
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I know we're going way beyond the Gillespie quota,

501
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: So charge me tariff on this. I want to quickly

502
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: go through. Give me like one two minutes on each

503
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: of these. So the article is called well how to

504
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: build a cult? Firstly, but then kind of the sub

505
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: It goes straight down to I love this. The recipe

506
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: a five step protocol for hijacking the human mind. Step one,

507
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: so I want you to riff on this for a

508
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: couple of minutes. Step one isolate the subject and become

509
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: the sole source. We've kind of covered all this a bit,

510
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: but at snapshot, become the sole source of validation.

511
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: Okay, so this isn't as necessary these days, but if

512
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 3: you're starting small and you need your core group of followers,

513
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 3: this is what you need to do. You need to

514
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 3: isolate them from people who will say bad things about

515
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: your beliefs. So and you need to be a source

516
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: of validation for them so that you are continuously reinforcing

517
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 3: for them that they have made the correct decision. And

518
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 3: so it's that simple. You just need to be that

519
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: all encompassing source, and you need to cut them off

520
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 3: from their sources of support. Now, as you grow, your

521
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 3: cult starts to take on an automatic recruitment capability, because

522
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 3: now you can use social media to achieve this same

523
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: because the algorithms will automatically do this for you. So

524
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 3: it'll give them validation, it'll show them only the things

525
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: they want to see and it will make anything else

526
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 3: foreign to them.

527
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: Step two, create a system of variable rewards.

528
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 3: Ah. Now we haven't talked about this one, but a

529
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: critical component of this is that the oxytocin reward we

530
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 3: get from believing that other people like what we're doing is, say,

531
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 3: at level one hundred. It's a standard dopamine reward, just

532
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: like the one we get from having sex or from gambling,

533
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. And we've talked about this a lot,

534
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: but the way our brain is wired is that we

535
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 3: prefer uncertainty, and the way that works is it magnifies it,

536
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: in fact, doubles the hit of dopamine we get from

537
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: a rewarding experience if it's not definitely going to be delivered.

538
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: So if we only get the rewarding thing every now

539
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: and then, then the hit we get from exposure to

540
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: it is double what it would be if we get

541
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: it all the time. And colts use this quite powerfully

542
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: in that they're not always your friend. They're not they're

543
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: not always telling you you're the greatest person on earth.

544
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're telling you you're an idiot, or they're randomly

545
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 3: punishing you. So one of the most powerful and effective

546
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 3: methods that a cult leader can use is to make

547
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: an example of someone who has betrayed the cult, So

548
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 3: to take someone down in front of the other cult members.

549
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: This is a non believer who has made a transgression

550
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: against the beliefs of the cult. And if you do

551
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: that every now and then and on a random schedule,

552
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 3: and where no one knows for sure whether they might

553
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 3: be next, the pleasure they receive from being part of

554
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 3: this cult is twice as high as it would otherwise be.

555
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: So while it seems cruel, it's a powerful motivator.

556
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, Like think about in Christianity, while in

557
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: fundamental Christianity anyway, and most versions of Christianity, most denominations,

558
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: you're taught that you were born a sinner, like you

559
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: like babies sinners, and the only way that they can

560
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: like can't behave their way out of it, Like you're

561
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: just a sinner and you need redemption.

562
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 3: Well, it's treata means keep them keen. You know it's

563
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 3: where you get it. Yeah, treata mean keep them keen.

564
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 3: Is if you're a member of a cult and then

565
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: suddenly you're on the outside, Suddenly you're getting the cold

566
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: shoulder you're being punished, then the thing you want most

567
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 3: in the world is to once again be part of

568
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: the cult. So it triggers an intense craving for the

569
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: uniformity and the belonging that the colt gave you.

570
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: Step three, establish a fortress of us versus them.

571
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is the thing we're talking about before,

572
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 3: the one that Hitler used with great effect, which is,

573
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 3: you know, you are better than them, you the Aryan people. Yeah,

574
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 3: you might feel like the world's against you, but you

575
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: are better. You're fundamentally better people, and that's what unites us.

576
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: You have to have something that you and you can

577
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 3: see this playing out in the United States on a

578
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 3: broader scale, you know, the immigrants of them and the

579
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: ass says the people born here. So this is a

580
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: really common narrative in cults, which is you latch onto

581
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 3: a message it's already there. You can't. By the way,

582
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: this is not something that you can just make up.

583
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 3: It's much much harder if you make it up. You

584
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 3: have to find something that your potential cult members do

585
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: regard as a unifying feature. I mean, this is, at

586
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: the end of the day, the fundamental basis for racism,

587
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 3: which is you know, white people are all better than

588
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 3: other people, et cetera, et cetera. So that's the the

589
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 3: underlying mechanism that is being exploited by this. But you

590
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: need to find a uniting thing that most of your

591
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 3: followers will find, will agree is a common superior factor

592
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: about them. Now, with the Miller Rights, it was their

593
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 3: belief in that event, you know. And but you will

594
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: find in every single cult there'll be something that unites them,

595
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: and whether it's spoken or unspoken, it'll be a characteristic

596
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: that they all regard as they share and the outsiders don't.

597
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, will you kind of cover this one speaking William

598
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: Miller demand escalating investment?

599
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you just got to keep ramping up the ask. Right. Initially,

600
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: it's very very simple. It's, you know, give me some

601
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: of your time, you know, commit to being helping at

602
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 3: this event. And then it turns into asking for money,

603
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 3: and then it turns into asking for possessions, and then

604
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: it turns into surrendering all worldly possessions and so on.

605
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 3: So it's an escalating ask because you want people to

606
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: get to the point where they have committed so much

607
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 3: to it that they cannot walk away from it no

608
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 3: matter what happens.

609
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love this. I'm just going to read

610
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: a little bit.

611
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: On the prophest side Day, which was October twenty two,

612
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: eight forty four. The followers gathered on hillsides and in churches,

613
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: dressed in white robes to await their salvation, but the

614
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: sun rose on October twenty third to a silent, unchanged world.

615
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: This was the ultimate reality landmine. From an outsider, the

616
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 1: conclusion was obvious. Miller was a fraud for the follower

617
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: who had given up everything. However, admitting this was psychologically impossible.

618
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: The pain of acknowledging that their entire investment, their home, reputation,

619
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: life's meaning was for nothing was too great.

620
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: That's so interesting, isn't it.

621
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so so bloody.

622
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: All right?

623
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: Last one, step five, Step five, if you're paying attention

624
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: and taking notes, seize control of the narrative.

625
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. So this is the one I'm talking about before,

626
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 3: where you have to keep the messaging. You can't just

627
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: start a col and then walk away. This is a

628
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 3: full time job. You've got to keep the messaging going.

629
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: I mean, and I give the example in the article

630
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 3: of nineteen eighty four where they took it to the

631
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 3: extreme of controlling the language. Followers can't conceive of something

632
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: like freedom or rebellion or individuality if the words don't exist.

633
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 3: So you see this sort of thing happening in North Korea,

634
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 3: for example, where there's just some concepts that no longer

635
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 3: exist in their language. And that's because they've had such

636
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: absolute control over what people say and believe that they

637
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 3: really don't know of anything else and can't even conceive

638
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 3: of it. And that's where you want to get to

639
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 3: with your cult that you're making, is you want to

640
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 3: get to a point where the only narrative comes from you.

641
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love this sentence. This five step protocol

642
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: is a recipe for building a cage inside a human mind.

643
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: Well, that's fucking terrifying.

644
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 3: It works, it works. It's taking advantage of a bug

645
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 3: in the way we work. I mean, it's both a

646
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 3: feature and a bug. It's the feature that makes us

647
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 3: the most powerful animal on the planet, but it's also

648
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 3: a bug that can be exploited.

649
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: Well, I might have to put my cult plans on

650
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: hold because I feel a little bit out of alignment

651
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: at the moment.

652
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 3: You feel the one thing I didn't put in there,

653
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 3: and this is probably A really important requirement is you

654
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 3: have to be a psychopath. So normal humans would find

655
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 3: this protocol really really hard to do because it involves

656
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: really really hurting people, and psychopasts don't care about doing that,

657
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: and psychoasts also don't care what people think of them,

658
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 3: so they're all good. If you're not a psychopath, you'll

659
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 3: find this really difficult to do.

660
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: Wow, thank goodness for that. Well, mate, I think March

661
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: of Tea is going to have to wait. We're talking

662
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: about it next time. You'll have to wait a fortnite

663
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: TIF to get you into Are you still standing?

664
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 2: Are you sitting?

665
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 4: No way that I had to sit down.

666
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:11,959
Speaker 2: I knew you were sitting. That's a terrible idea. That's

667
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: so hilarious. That's fucking that lasted about twelve minutes.

668
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 3: Everyone.

669
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm really into standing up. I've got a

670
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: stand up disk and it's fucking this is the new me.

671
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: Seven minutes later, sitting on her ass your ideas though,

672
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 2: when then you.

673
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: Especially when you're telling the world you know how good

674
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: you are at it. And then I saw your elbows

675
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: resting on the desk. I'm like, that motherfucker is sitting down?

676
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: What you.

677
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: Gills boat. We'll say goodbye affair. But yeah, thanks for's name.

678
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah I noticed Tip sit down about halfway

679
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 3: through that. Oh dear, she's having asleep.

680
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah so much for that new activity. Thanks mate,