WEBVTT - “My life has no purpose”: Kathleen Kirby Pt.2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.800 Detective see a side of life. The average person is 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.080 never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.320 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.240 Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Kathleen Kirby, 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.320 the mother of murdered nineteen year old Audrey Griffin. I 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.440 travel up to the central case of New South Wales 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.240 to meet Kathleen and talk about the murder of her 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.920 beautiful daughter. I wish I wasn't meeting Kathleen under these circumstances. 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.920 See seven months ago, her daughter Audrey was murdered by 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.520 a stranger when she was walking home late one night. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.759 That man, Adrian Torrens, was out on bail and had 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:18.080 an extensive history of domestic violence. Audrey's death was initially 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.080 ruled by police as a misadventure, but Kathleen knew that 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.680 wasn't the case and took matters into her own hands. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.160 If she hadn't, Torrens might have gotten away with murder. 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:33.920 Here is part two of my chat with Kathleen the 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.200 CCTV footage which led to the breakthrough. What involvement did 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.720 you have him pushing for finding out more about the 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:42.039 TV footage? 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.480 Well, once again, when I went in to see the footage, 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.160 which they didn't show me the footage that they released 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.800 the following day, which I asked, I want to see 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.280 all the footage everything. I want to see what stay 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:53.720 of mind she. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.960 Is so okay and what we're breaking down here CCTV 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:02.040 footage taken from businesses along everything they had people walking. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.480 You've gone in the police station and said I want 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:06.760 to see it, and they. 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:08.320 Took them three weeks to get back to me to 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.679 say okay, come in, and then I'm sitting down and 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.480 they're showing me bits and pieces and I said, so 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:18.000 where's the club. It's upstairs. Didn't I just say I 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:19.880 wanted to see all of it. So I see all that, 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:21.520 I see parts of it. I walk out of there. 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.799 I'm like, Okay, she's happy, she's not drunk, she's not dizzy, 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:30.920 she's not falling over the place. You know, what I 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.679 have just thought is that she would have had jet leg. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.240 And then when we've seen that video that was taken 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.680 off her to a friend and she's tired, it's two thirty, 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:46.360 she's just done Sydney mum out all night walking home 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:51.160 to thirty jet legged. We did things, as I said 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:57.120 to you, to have tests done. We had to cremate 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.800 our daughter in a way that no parent would have 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:07.080 to make that choice. And then to find out now 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.520 they had that footage the day after that, they released 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.440 three and a half weeks and they hadn't shown me. 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.519 Post more than you're talking about there, And it's invasive 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.640 when the postmortems have done. If they were treating it 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:29.280 as suspicious, I'd have to say just that there would 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.680 be a post more than conducted that needs to be 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:37.800 conducted unless there was some extremely extenuating the extenuating circumstances. 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.240 Do you know they said to me. What I've been 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.120 informed is that when I came back to them and said, 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.320 that's when they said, maybe we should start looking at 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.480 this a bit more. When I went back after seeing 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.120 Audrey and I said to them, this is not that's 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:57.000 when from what I've been told now, is when they said, 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.080 that's when they started looking into it more. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:05.480 That's what you're being told now when you're pushing with 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:10.880 the CCTV footage, what happened after you've gone in and 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.880 causing concerns you want to look at it, and demanding 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.320 to look at the CCTV footage, What's what's happened? 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.040 The next day they released they released the photo of 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.440 him walking behind her and two young girls in front. 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.239 The young girls in front lasted a couple of hours, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:28.800 I think, on social media, and I think that got 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:33.800 shut down quite quick and his photo was still there. Now, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:35.320 this is where it comes a bit of a blur. 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.440 I remember ringing him and saying, why didn't I see 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:45.360 that footage? And that's when he was saying to me, 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.200 we didn't find it irrelevant at. 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.720 The time, didn't find it relevant because he was. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:55.120 Twenty meters behind. And when I also said, when I 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.240 was there, have you got the footage? What about all 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.680 the footage between here and here? He said, well, we 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:02.400 don't need that, we've got that, and I said, well, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.800 I've got footage from two shops one of the real 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.679 estates my girlfriend works in that said to me, Kathleen, 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.320 we've got footage. You want me to have a look, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.120 and it's him walking behind her that they didn't have. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.400 And when I said to them, why haven't you got that? 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:23.120 And he said, because we've got this and that we've 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.240 got enough footage. And I said, well, how do you 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.360 know that something didn't happen in between that time? 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.640 Just help me break that and that for a bit. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:36.680 So they've got footage where he's walking behind orgery. This 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.040 is coming from the direction of Gossip Hotel. Correct, we 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.480 know where Audrey's Body's been found, direct aeron the creek. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:49.280 And them telling you that there's no need to look 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.200 at other footage because we've got footage. 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:52.760 I don't know if they said they didn't need to 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.840 look at footage that from when I said, oh, I've 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.839 got this footage, why haven't you got it? And they said, oh, 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:58.880 we've got footage from all the other places we didn't 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.080 need that one. And to me, it's like any anyone 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.560 else could have been involved, any like, wouldn't you just 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:06.520 get all the footage? 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.320 I would say, yes, yes, you would in. 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.440 That strip because it's not that amount of shops. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:17.480 Well we say it's five or six kilometers, and that's 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.960 just my guestimate on how far it might be a 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:24.440 little bit less. There's not that many shops. There's banker shops, 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.640 and we're talking, you know, two hundred meters work for shops, 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.520 the hotel and some service stations, those type of things. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.320 So it's not like looking the main street of a 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:40.479 city going through every business. Okay, so how would you 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:44.400 describe your thoughts about the police what they were doing 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:45.400 at this point in time. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.800 I was appalled, absolutely. I was beside myself. I was 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:54.479 beside myself constantly. We all were. Everybody was by this stage. 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.080 Everyone was just you know a lot of people were 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:03.320 quite because you know, we didn't know, but everyone in 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:09.080 the background was like, no way, no way, you know, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:14.600 and here myself and the girls that we were all 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.520 in the hotel room were just constantly just at the 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.120 police station, just you know, and seeing them, seeing me 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.320 doing the work that I was doing, they would concern 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:26.600 for me as well. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.120 To give a sense, and it might be hard to 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.520 give exact numbers, But in that three weeks from the 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.520 time Audrey's Body's been found until the release of the 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:42.440 CCTV footage, how many conversations would you say, you and 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.880 the old girlfriends acting on your every day? 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.520 Every day? Every day, maybe a couple of times a day. 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.560 So I was constantly on the phone to them, when 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.000 am I seeing this? When am I picking up this? 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:54.760 Where's her phone? Where's her bag? Where's this? 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:54.960 What? 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.080 I was constantly on the phone. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.560 To them, So twenty you. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.880 Oh, easy, it'll be Look, we could definitely say once a. 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.320 Day, but even more would have your mind been put 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:09.880 at ease if the police had said to you during 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.760 those frequent contacts, look, we are looking at this is 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:18.120 suspiciously Absolutely, was that ever said to you. Never, So, 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.960 despite all the stuff that you've brought to them and 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.600 where you've questioned what's been done, there was no point 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.880 and I'm talking up until when the photo was released, 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.840 no point where they've said, look, we've decided to look 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.719 at it in more detail. You have never told me 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.560 ever at once did you give them the opportunity to 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.120 tell that, Like I'm thinking, was that you just ringing 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.720 up and angry at them and hanging up or did 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.440 you never hung up? I was always okay, so you 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:46.520 gave them the opportunity. 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.280 I was always I you know, yes, So maybe it's 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.480 a few times that i'd raised my voice, but I 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.560 always treat them with respect in an anger way of 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:00.520 a mother grieving. But I was never I. I went 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.000 in their professional in ways that I needed them behind me. 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:06.560 I didn't want to burn bridges in any way. So 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.040 I had that in my mind at all times, and 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.679 I had the girls with me, and to the point 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.600 even with my girlfriend who's a solicitor, walked out and see, Kathleen, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.680 you handle that so well? Do you know what I mean? So? No? 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.680 So, And why I pose that question? There was just 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.680 opportunities if they had changed their mind, where they could 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.360 have told you, like I'm thinking of them many times 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.200 they trying to justify my own mind. How why they're 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.319 approaching it that way? And I think if if you're 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.000 coming in aggressively, they might have been able to tell 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.280 you that they've turned it round. But you're saying that 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:37.679 there was. 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.520 Even if that was the case, get a counselor in 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.000 and sit down with me, give me support, but to 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.800 let me go through everything I did and doing what 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.120 I had to do to find out if she'd been 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:55.319 drugged or pointed or drugged or she was intoxicated before 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:00.480 we cremated Audrey. That should never have happened. I should 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:01.520 never have had to do that. 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.200 Yeah, And I'm not sure if this is helping you 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.720 however you want to look at it. But if it 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.040 was treated as suspicious, that would have been those types 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:12.360 of tests that would have been done. 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:14.920 They had the footage of the day after, Yeah. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.440 But they potentially would need to still gather that evidence. 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.959 So the foto's gone out. So you've asked for media attention, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.800 you've asked for media release early just after Audrey's body 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.360 was found. You've harassed and chased up your own CCTV footage. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.400 You've gone to the police asking what's on it. You've 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.600 asked to see what's on it, You've seen it, it's 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:42.240 been released, and then. 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:49.720 What so then it's released and we're informed to come 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.720 into and at this stage, I'm with my father. He's 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:56.040 passed pretty much on his last breath, and right at 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.240 the hospital with my family, and I'm asked to come 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.440 into the Surrey Hill's police station. So Trevor and I 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.240 arrived to Surrey Hill's police station later in that afternoon, 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:14.360 and a different detective who's now taking over the case 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:22.000 said to me, we've arrested don't want to say his 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:29.880 name for the murder of Audrey. And I said, has 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.920 he confessed? And he said he's sleeping at the moment, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:41.800 And then I said and then he said, sorry, he's 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:45.000 in custody with the We can't speak to him now 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:50.920 because he's in custody with the Aboriginal community. I was 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.240 then told that they were going to do what they 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.280 could and that they'd get support team. And I may 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.640 have had a phone call once or twice from someone 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:07.760 in all this going on that maybe once I think 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:13.800 she said she reached out. Trevor and I walked out, 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:22.520 no support. While he's sitting in there being protected. We 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.800 get to walk out at Sorry Hill's Police station without 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.600 daor to be murdered. He's been on the loose for 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.600 three weeks, he's been seen at the location, which they denied, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.480 and we walk out of there and he gets protection. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:45.280 Doesn't matter what color, they said, they said to us 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:51.200 as well, sorry that we've arrested him, that she scratched 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.040 him with her index finger on the face. We've got 0:12:55.120 --> 0:13:00.120 DNA and we also have seven other people come forward 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:01.040 enough to arrest him. 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:07.560 That potentially the way that handle that. I just clarify, 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:14.280 people in custody have rights, and where's my rights? Sitting 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.240 here hearing your story, I would imagine everyone else would 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:22.040 feel the same way and go, well, who cares. That's 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:23.200 the reality of the world. 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.680 It's not reality. It's not reality. This is what we 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.600 need to change. And I get I understand what you're saying, 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.360 and I know what you're going to say, but it's 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.320 not reality. This is a man that's murdered my daughter 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.720 and we're left to walk out of there and he's 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.720 got a roof over his head and probably even feed 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.280 and someone protecting him, and where are we? That is 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.920 just wrong on every level. I'm sorry, I know, I 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:47.520 know what you're saying. 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.400 You don't have to be sorry, and I can't argue 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:57.079 back on You're entitled to those views and fully understandable. 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.760 He was charged a couple a couple of things at 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.400 points I want to make here on the charging that 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.000 He's DNA were found under a fingernails, whinding it right 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:14.119 back to the couple of weeks before when her Audrey's 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:19.800 body was found. Checking the fingernails for a potential murder investigation? 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.160 Is just homicide? One oh one? The fact that he's 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.560 DNA were found under the fingernails causing me a concern 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.680 that that wasn't enough to prompt that there's a thorough 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.920 homicide investigation. He was only in custody for four days, 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.600 three and a bit before he killed himself in prison. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:43.360 How does that happen? How does someone get a razor 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.640 blade to take their life in prison? How does someone 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.760 that's been on a five day bender from what I've 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:53.000 been informed the week before, on drugs and alcohol and 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.160 put in jail and they turn and the counselors turn 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.200 around and say that he's not suicidal and put him 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.480 in a normal cell where he's handed a raizor blade 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:07.960 to take his life. How does that happen with a 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:09.160 history that he has. 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.520 I can't answer that. I know practices have put in 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.960 place to prevent that type of thing, but I'm sure 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.120 that will be encompassed in a cranial investigation. It would 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.280 be treated as a death in custody and an investigation 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.560 will be conducted conducted that way from an emotional point 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.400 of view, from your point of view and Trevors and 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.200 friends and family, how did it make you feel to 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.800 know the person that's been arrested and charged with Audrey's 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:40.920 murder has taken that part? 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:45.200 Helleljah, thank you. At the time, we were having a 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:49.600 ritual for Audrey down at the beach where the whole 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.640 of terrible people for Miles. I don't know if you've 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:52.960 seen it. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.840 I've seen it. I've seen that many people that. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.560 Are people couldn't even get there. It was like people 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.480 were coming from Sydney on the train. They just couldn't 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.960 get there. That was the response that people and we 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:07.520 found out. So that day at four point fifty we 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.880 were told the ceremony started at five. At four point fifty, 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.160 we got the phone call to say that he'd taken 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.160 his life. So ten minutes prior, I lose my father 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.640 that night and then when i'm you know, when they 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.920 phone me to say how are you feeling? And I said, well, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.240 you know what, I'm happy. I'm happy because he's off 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.480 the street and he's gone. Did I feel that way later. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.400 Probably not, But then from what I've been informed, there 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.200 may be a lot of things he may have said 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.880 to me if I did see him face to face 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.520 that I probably never would have come back from. So 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.520 at the end of the day, yes, yes, he will 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.960 never be out to hurt another child, or another woman 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.720 or another man, whoever that'll be. 0:16:54.400 --> 0:17:00.000 I can understand how difficult the whole whole situation, if. 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.159 The whole situation is just appalling, to think that he 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.359 was out on the street for three weeks and hidden, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.119 you know, he was hidden that I while he was missing, 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:16.359 he'd been up at casino. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:18.320 How are you aware of that? 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.159 I was told by the constable. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.800 Right, did the police say anything to you about how 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.600 it's gone from misadventure to murder? Did was there any 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.640 apologies or any any oh? 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:31.920 God knows, God knows? 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:33.560 Was there any discussions? Did you? 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.840 Like I'm the one that's always brought it up. How 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.280 how do you go from you know, when we went 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.600 to the coroner's report, which I brought my doctor with 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:47.800 me so she could actually explain the information clearly to 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:53.400 me so that we could understand. How did it? Ever? 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.280 From what I see of Audrey, how was that ever 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.280 tread as an adventure, and then how did you come 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.359 to the conclusion of this? Yes, they explained all that, 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.959 but still to me, how did they come to that 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:14.840 conclusion misadventure when you you only had to see her? 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.439 Well, I can't comment on that because I didn't see Audrey, 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.280 but I respect your comments as Audrey's mother, But on 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:27.159 the circumstances, I don't see how you could write that 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.640 off a misadventure. You've got to keep an open mind, 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:36.520 to open mind to things. So in light of all 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.680 that's happened, have you had to sit down with any 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:39.600 senior police. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:44.440 Yes, we've had many of interviews with Chris Min's yes man. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.600 So we're talking the premiere of the police minister, so 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.480 that the high, high level meetings correct. 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:56.879 And then there was Karen web police commissioner correct which 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.640 she looked me in the eye, which tears as a woman, 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:07.040 as a mother with a broken heart, and said to me, Kathleen, 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.560 we had him locked up, they just let him out. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.520 Yeah. Well, that's that's another part of this whole story 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.840 that concerns me. And I'm not being critical of Karen 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:27.920 Webb here, the former former commissioner, but I'm somewhat confused. 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:29.800 You might be able to add some clarity to it. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:34.080 But when he was, and I'll respect the fact you 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.920 don't want his name mentioned, so he doesn't deserve it, okay. 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.480 When he was charged with Audrey's murder, he was also 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.280 charged with eleven other counts of the breaching AVOs and 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:52.760 domestic violence related related matters. My understanding, he was put 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.880 before the courts in October, granted the corrections order and released. 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.439 It was fairly stringent, and then he was sentenced on 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:07.879 the sixteenth of January correctional orders. These breaches of the 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:15.280 avas related to his former wife. And I've also picked 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:20.240 up on the information that she's saying that she was 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.800 concerned about the amount of times that she contacted the 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:28.119 police asking whether he's been located, and he hadn't been located. 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:34.280 My concerns, and this is speculating here that he can't 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.879 be that difficult to find because he was committing the 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:38.679 fences by using his telephone. 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:39.199 Correct. 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.159 Now, if someone's got their telephone, as police officers, we 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:42.880 can find them. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.359 This is what I'm saying about the location. When my 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.240 girlfriend saw him at the location the week later, I said, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:52.960 when I was driving up for the ritual that day, 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.920 and I drove past the creek. I was coming from 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.440 Sydney and I was driving past to come up to Terrgill. 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.600 And I went past and I saw all the police there, 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.800 and I pulled in and I said, what's going on. 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.040 They said, we're doing a reenactment. And I walked up 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:08.880 to one of the detectives that was being there from 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.679 day dot and said to her, I've been informed a 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:17.560 girlfriend had phoned in about seeing him the week after, 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.679 and she came in and did a statement because obviously 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.199 by this stage she saw the photo and identified the 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:27.000 clothing he was wearing. She said to me, yes, his 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.880 phone diged to the location, right. 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.400 They denied that later when your girlfriend said she saw 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.360 saw him, he was there, that when they were doing 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.120 the re enactment. Was that after he'd been arrested. Yes, okay, 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.080 I understand that. 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:43.639 This was the day of the ritual. 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:53.199 Getting back to the offenses that he was wanted for now, 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.760 I've heard the Commission of Web say that, yeah, we 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.359 put him before, put him before the courts, and I 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.480 understand that. I understand the frustration from the police, like 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:05.560 we can't control the courts. We've got to accept the 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:11.240 court's decisions. I'm just curious how long, with eleven breaches 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.960 of avas, how long police were looking for him before? 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:16.840 Correct? That's what I think too. 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:22.400 Audrey's murder and what efforts were done to find him? 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:22.960 Correct? 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.879 When were those offenses committed? Because I look at his 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.679 criminal history. Well, I've seen of his criminal history and 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:33.520 the past offenses and the threats that were made to 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:39.200 his ex wife. They're concerning in anyone's level. You don't 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.800 have to be a cop to think this person's potentially dangerous. 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:46.160 I want to know exactly what happened from day dot. 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:51.240 I want to know exactly exactly what was done. Why 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.240 we were told it was a misadventure, Why it was 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:57.280 put down as a misadventure. Why nothing was ever said 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:01.800 to me, even if they, like you said, if I 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.199 was a lunatic or whatever, and they felt they couldn't 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:06.760 approach me, Why didn't I get the support so that song. 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:09.280 Why did they allow me to come in there knowing 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:13.040 I was very stressed and I was looking for answers. 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:18.080 At no stage did they ever say to me, Kathleen, 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:20.679 we're looking into this, or we're doing this, We're going 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:24.000 to look or even we're going to try and do this, 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:29.040 or we're going to do this nothing misadventure. Would that 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:33.440 make absolutely make a difference, absolutely absolutely if I knew 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.840 they were looking. If I knew they were looking, and 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:41.120 I would still wouldn't stopped myself because obviously if they 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:46.800 were looking, why is it that I found we found 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.280 all this stuff? How do you not find a phone? 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:51.080 How do you not go down the lot? That's what 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.120 I said to him. How did you not go down 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:55.880