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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life. The average person is

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Speaker 1: never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Kathleen Kirby,

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Speaker 1: the mother of murdered nineteen year old Audrey Griffin. I

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Speaker 1: travel up to the central case of New South Wales

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Speaker 1: to meet Kathleen and talk about the murder of her

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Speaker 1: beautiful daughter. I wish I wasn't meeting Kathleen under these circumstances.

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Speaker 1: See seven months ago, her daughter Audrey was murdered by

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Speaker 1: a stranger when she was walking home late one night.

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Speaker 1: That man, Adrian Torrens, was out on bail and had

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Speaker 1: an extensive history of domestic violence. Audrey's death was initially

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Speaker 1: ruled by police as a misadventure, but Kathleen knew that

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Speaker 1: wasn't the case and took matters into her own hands.

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Speaker 1: If she hadn't, Torrens might have gotten away with murder.

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Speaker 1: Here is part two of my chat with Kathleen the

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Speaker 1: CCTV footage which led to the breakthrough. What involvement did

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Speaker 1: you have him pushing for finding out more about the

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Speaker 1: TV footage?

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Speaker 2: Well, once again, when I went in to see the footage,

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Speaker 2: which they didn't show me the footage that they released

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Speaker 2: the following day, which I asked, I want to see

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Speaker 2: all the footage everything. I want to see what stay

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Speaker 2: of mind she.

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Speaker 1: Is so okay and what we're breaking down here CCTV

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Speaker 1: footage taken from businesses along everything they had people walking.

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Speaker 1: You've gone in the police station and said I want

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Speaker 1: to see it, and they.

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Speaker 2: Took them three weeks to get back to me to

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Speaker 2: say okay, come in, and then I'm sitting down and

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Speaker 2: they're showing me bits and pieces and I said, so

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Speaker 2: where's the club. It's upstairs. Didn't I just say I

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Speaker 2: wanted to see all of it. So I see all that,

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Speaker 2: I see parts of it. I walk out of there.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, she's happy, she's not drunk, she's not dizzy,

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Speaker 2: she's not falling over the place. You know, what I

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Speaker 2: have just thought is that she would have had jet leg.

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Speaker 2: And then when we've seen that video that was taken

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Speaker 2: off her to a friend and she's tired, it's two thirty,

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Speaker 2: she's just done Sydney mum out all night walking home

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Speaker 2: to thirty jet legged. We did things, as I said

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Speaker 2: to you, to have tests done. We had to cremate

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Speaker 2: our daughter in a way that no parent would have

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Speaker 2: to make that choice. And then to find out now

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Speaker 2: they had that footage the day after that, they released

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Speaker 2: three and a half weeks and they hadn't shown me.

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Speaker 1: Post more than you're talking about there, And it's invasive

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Speaker 1: when the postmortems have done. If they were treating it

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Speaker 1: as suspicious, I'd have to say just that there would

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Speaker 1: be a post more than conducted that needs to be

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Speaker 1: conducted unless there was some extremely extenuating the extenuating circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Do you know they said to me. What I've been

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Speaker 2: informed is that when I came back to them and said,

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Speaker 2: that's when they said, maybe we should start looking at

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Speaker 2: this a bit more. When I went back after seeing

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Speaker 2: Audrey and I said to them, this is not that's

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Speaker 2: when from what I've been told now, is when they said,

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Speaker 2: that's when they started looking into it more.

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Speaker 1: That's what you're being told now when you're pushing with

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Speaker 1: the CCTV footage, what happened after you've gone in and

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Speaker 1: causing concerns you want to look at it, and demanding

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Speaker 1: to look at the CCTV footage, What's what's happened?

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Speaker 2: The next day they released they released the photo of

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Speaker 2: him walking behind her and two young girls in front.

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Speaker 2: The young girls in front lasted a couple of hours,

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Speaker 2: I think, on social media, and I think that got

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Speaker 2: shut down quite quick and his photo was still there. Now,

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Speaker 2: this is where it comes a bit of a blur.

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Speaker 2: I remember ringing him and saying, why didn't I see

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Speaker 2: that footage? And that's when he was saying to me,

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Speaker 2: we didn't find it irrelevant at.

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Speaker 1: The time, didn't find it relevant because he was.

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Speaker 2: Twenty meters behind. And when I also said, when I

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Speaker 2: was there, have you got the footage? What about all

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Speaker 2: the footage between here and here? He said, well, we

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Speaker 2: don't need that, we've got that, and I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I've got footage from two shops one of the real

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Speaker 2: estates my girlfriend works in that said to me, Kathleen,

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Speaker 2: we've got footage. You want me to have a look,

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Speaker 2: and it's him walking behind her that they didn't have.

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Speaker 2: And when I said to them, why haven't you got that?

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Speaker 2: And he said, because we've got this and that we've

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Speaker 2: got enough footage. And I said, well, how do you

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Speaker 2: know that something didn't happen in between that time?

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Speaker 1: Just help me break that and that for a bit.

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Speaker 1: So they've got footage where he's walking behind orgery. This

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Speaker 1: is coming from the direction of Gossip Hotel. Correct, we

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Speaker 1: know where Audrey's Body's been found, direct aeron the creek.

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Speaker 1: And them telling you that there's no need to look

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Speaker 1: at other footage because we've got footage.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they said they didn't need to

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Speaker 2: look at footage that from when I said, oh, I've

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Speaker 2: got this footage, why haven't you got it? And they said, oh,

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Speaker 2: we've got footage from all the other places we didn't

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Speaker 2: need that one. And to me, it's like any anyone

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Speaker 2: else could have been involved, any like, wouldn't you just

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Speaker 2: get all the footage?

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Speaker 1: I would say, yes, yes, you would in.

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Speaker 2: That strip because it's not that amount of shops.

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Speaker 1: Well we say it's five or six kilometers, and that's

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Speaker 1: just my guestimate on how far it might be a

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Speaker 1: little bit less. There's not that many shops. There's banker shops,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking, you know, two hundred meters work for shops,

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Speaker 1: the hotel and some service stations, those type of things.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like looking the main street of a

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Speaker 1: city going through every business. Okay, so how would you

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Speaker 1: describe your thoughts about the police what they were doing

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Speaker 1: at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: I was appalled, absolutely. I was beside myself. I was

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Speaker 2: beside myself constantly. We all were. Everybody was by this stage.

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Speaker 2: Everyone was just you know a lot of people were

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Speaker 2: quite because you know, we didn't know, but everyone in

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Speaker 2: the background was like, no way, no way, you know,

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Speaker 2: and here myself and the girls that we were all

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Speaker 2: in the hotel room were just constantly just at the

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Speaker 2: police station, just you know, and seeing them, seeing me

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Speaker 2: doing the work that I was doing, they would concern

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Speaker 2: for me as well.

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Speaker 1: To give a sense, and it might be hard to

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Speaker 1: give exact numbers, But in that three weeks from the

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Speaker 1: time Audrey's Body's been found until the release of the

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Speaker 1: CCTV footage, how many conversations would you say, you and

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Speaker 1: the old girlfriends acting on your every day?

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Speaker 2: Every day? Every day, maybe a couple of times a day.

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Speaker 2: So I was constantly on the phone to them, when

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Speaker 2: am I seeing this? When am I picking up this?

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Speaker 2: Where's her phone? Where's her bag? Where's this?

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: I was constantly on the phone.

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Speaker 1: To them, So twenty you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, easy, it'll be Look, we could definitely say once a.

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Speaker 1: Day, but even more would have your mind been put

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Speaker 1: at ease if the police had said to you during

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Speaker 1: those frequent contacts, look, we are looking at this is

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Speaker 1: suspiciously Absolutely, was that ever said to you. Never, So,

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Speaker 1: despite all the stuff that you've brought to them and

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Speaker 1: where you've questioned what's been done, there was no point

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking up until when the photo was released,

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Speaker 1: no point where they've said, look, we've decided to look

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Speaker 1: at it in more detail. You have never told me

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Speaker 1: ever at once did you give them the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: tell that, Like I'm thinking, was that you just ringing

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Speaker 1: up and angry at them and hanging up or did

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Speaker 1: you never hung up? I was always okay, so you

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Speaker 1: gave them the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: I was always I you know, yes, So maybe it's

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Speaker 2: a few times that i'd raised my voice, but I

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Speaker 2: always treat them with respect in an anger way of

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Speaker 2: a mother grieving. But I was never I. I went

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Speaker 2: in their professional in ways that I needed them behind me.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to burn bridges in any way. So

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Speaker 2: I had that in my mind at all times, and

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Speaker 2: I had the girls with me, and to the point

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Speaker 2: even with my girlfriend who's a solicitor, walked out and see, Kathleen,

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Speaker 2: you handle that so well? Do you know what I mean? So? No?

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Speaker 1: So, And why I pose that question? There was just

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Speaker 1: opportunities if they had changed their mind, where they could

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Speaker 1: have told you, like I'm thinking of them many times

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Speaker 1: they trying to justify my own mind. How why they're

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Speaker 1: approaching it that way? And I think if if you're

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Speaker 1: coming in aggressively, they might have been able to tell

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Speaker 1: you that they've turned it round. But you're saying that

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Speaker 1: there was.

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Speaker 2: Even if that was the case, get a counselor in

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Speaker 2: and sit down with me, give me support, but to

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Speaker 2: let me go through everything I did and doing what

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Speaker 2: I had to do to find out if she'd been

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Speaker 2: drugged or pointed or drugged or she was intoxicated before

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Speaker 2: we cremated Audrey. That should never have happened. I should

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Speaker 2: never have had to do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm not sure if this is helping you

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Speaker 1: however you want to look at it. But if it

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Speaker 1: was treated as suspicious, that would have been those types

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Speaker 1: of tests that would have been done.

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Speaker 2: They had the footage of the day after, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But they potentially would need to still gather that evidence.

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Speaker 1: So the foto's gone out. So you've asked for media attention,

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Speaker 1: you've asked for media release early just after Audrey's body

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Speaker 1: was found. You've harassed and chased up your own CCTV footage.

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Speaker 1: You've gone to the police asking what's on it. You've

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Speaker 1: asked to see what's on it, You've seen it, it's

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Speaker 1: been released, and then.

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Speaker 2: What so then it's released and we're informed to come

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Speaker 2: into and at this stage, I'm with my father. He's

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Speaker 2: passed pretty much on his last breath, and right at

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Speaker 2: the hospital with my family, and I'm asked to come

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Speaker 2: into the Surrey Hill's police station. So Trevor and I

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Speaker 2: arrived to Surrey Hill's police station later in that afternoon,

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Speaker 2: and a different detective who's now taking over the case

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Speaker 2: said to me, we've arrested don't want to say his

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Speaker 2: name for the murder of Audrey. And I said, has

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Speaker 2: he confessed? And he said he's sleeping at the moment,

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Speaker 2: And then I said and then he said, sorry, he's

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Speaker 2: in custody with the We can't speak to him now

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Speaker 2: because he's in custody with the Aboriginal community. I was

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Speaker 2: then told that they were going to do what they

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Speaker 2: could and that they'd get support team. And I may

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Speaker 2: have had a phone call once or twice from someone

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Speaker 2: in all this going on that maybe once I think

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Speaker 2: she said she reached out. Trevor and I walked out,

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Speaker 2: no support. While he's sitting in there being protected. We

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Speaker 2: get to walk out at Sorry Hill's Police station without

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Speaker 2: daor to be murdered. He's been on the loose for

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Speaker 2: three weeks, he's been seen at the location, which they denied,

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Speaker 2: and we walk out of there and he gets protection.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't matter what color, they said, they said to us

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Speaker 2: as well, sorry that we've arrested him, that she scratched

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Speaker 2: him with her index finger on the face. We've got

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Speaker 2: DNA and we also have seven other people come forward

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Speaker 2: enough to arrest him.

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Speaker 1: That potentially the way that handle that. I just clarify,

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Speaker 1: people in custody have rights, and where's my rights? Sitting

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Speaker 1: here hearing your story, I would imagine everyone else would

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Speaker 1: feel the same way and go, well, who cares. That's

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Speaker 1: the reality of the world.

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Speaker 2: It's not reality. It's not reality. This is what we

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Speaker 2: need to change. And I get I understand what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: and I know what you're going to say, but it's

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Speaker 2: not reality. This is a man that's murdered my daughter

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Speaker 2: and we're left to walk out of there and he's

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Speaker 2: got a roof over his head and probably even feed

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Speaker 2: and someone protecting him, and where are we? That is

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Speaker 2: just wrong on every level. I'm sorry, I know, I

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Speaker 2: know what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to be sorry, and I can't argue

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Speaker 1: back on You're entitled to those views and fully understandable.

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Speaker 1: He was charged a couple a couple of things at

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Speaker 1: points I want to make here on the charging that

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Speaker 1: He's DNA were found under a fingernails, whinding it right

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Speaker 1: back to the couple of weeks before when her Audrey's

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Speaker 1: body was found. Checking the fingernails for a potential murder investigation?

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Speaker 1: Is just homicide? One oh one? The fact that he's

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Speaker 1: DNA were found under the fingernails causing me a concern

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Speaker 1: that that wasn't enough to prompt that there's a thorough

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Speaker 1: homicide investigation. He was only in custody for four days,

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Speaker 1: three and a bit before he killed himself in prison.

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Speaker 2: How does that happen? How does someone get a razor

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Speaker 2: blade to take their life in prison? How does someone

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Speaker 2: that's been on a five day bender from what I've

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Speaker 2: been informed the week before, on drugs and alcohol and

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Speaker 2: put in jail and they turn and the counselors turn

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Speaker 2: around and say that he's not suicidal and put him

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Speaker 2: in a normal cell where he's handed a raizor blade

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Speaker 2: to take his life. How does that happen with a

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Speaker 2: history that he has.

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Speaker 1: I can't answer that. I know practices have put in

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Speaker 1: place to prevent that type of thing, but I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that will be encompassed in a cranial investigation. It would

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Speaker 1: be treated as a death in custody and an investigation

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Speaker 1: will be conducted conducted that way from an emotional point

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Speaker 1: of view, from your point of view and Trevors and

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Speaker 1: friends and family, how did it make you feel to

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Speaker 1: know the person that's been arrested and charged with Audrey's

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Speaker 1: murder has taken that part?

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Speaker 2: Helleljah, thank you. At the time, we were having a

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Speaker 2: ritual for Audrey down at the beach where the whole

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Speaker 2: of terrible people for Miles. I don't know if you've

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Speaker 2: seen it.

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Speaker 1: I've seen it. I've seen that many people that.

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Speaker 2: Are people couldn't even get there. It was like people

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Speaker 2: were coming from Sydney on the train. They just couldn't

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Speaker 2: get there. That was the response that people and we

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Speaker 2: found out. So that day at four point fifty we

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Speaker 2: were told the ceremony started at five. At four point fifty,

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Speaker 2: we got the phone call to say that he'd taken

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Speaker 2: his life. So ten minutes prior, I lose my father

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Speaker 2: that night and then when i'm you know, when they

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Speaker 2: phone me to say how are you feeling? And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm happy. I'm happy because he's off

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Speaker 2: the street and he's gone. Did I feel that way later.

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Speaker 2: Probably not, But then from what I've been informed, there

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Speaker 2: may be a lot of things he may have said

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Speaker 2: to me if I did see him face to face

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Speaker 2: that I probably never would have come back from. So

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, yes, yes, he will

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Speaker 2: never be out to hurt another child, or another woman

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Speaker 2: or another man, whoever that'll be.

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Speaker 1: I can understand how difficult the whole whole situation, if.

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Speaker 2: The whole situation is just appalling, to think that he

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Speaker 2: was out on the street for three weeks and hidden,

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Speaker 2: you know, he was hidden that I while he was missing,

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Speaker 2: he'd been up at casino.

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Speaker 1: How are you aware of that?

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Speaker 2: I was told by the constable.

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Speaker 1: Right, did the police say anything to you about how

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Speaker 1: it's gone from misadventure to murder? Did was there any

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Speaker 1: apologies or any any oh?

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Speaker 2: God knows, God knows?

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Speaker 1: Was there any discussions? Did you?

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Speaker 2: Like I'm the one that's always brought it up. How

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Speaker 2: how do you go from you know, when we went

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Speaker 2: to the coroner's report, which I brought my doctor with

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Speaker 2: me so she could actually explain the information clearly to

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Speaker 2: me so that we could understand. How did it? Ever?

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Speaker 2: From what I see of Audrey, how was that ever

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Speaker 2: tread as an adventure, and then how did you come

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Speaker 2: to the conclusion of this? Yes, they explained all that,

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Speaker 2: but still to me, how did they come to that

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Speaker 2: conclusion misadventure when you you only had to see her?

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Speaker 1: Well, I can't comment on that because I didn't see Audrey,

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Speaker 1: but I respect your comments as Audrey's mother, But on

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Speaker 1: the circumstances, I don't see how you could write that

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Speaker 1: off a misadventure. You've got to keep an open mind,

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Speaker 1: to open mind to things. So in light of all

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Speaker 1: that's happened, have you had to sit down with any

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Speaker 1: senior police.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we've had many of interviews with Chris Min's yes man.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking the premiere of the police minister, so

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Speaker 1: that the high, high level meetings correct.

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Speaker 2: And then there was Karen web police commissioner correct which

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Speaker 2: she looked me in the eye, which tears as a woman,

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Speaker 2: as a mother with a broken heart, and said to me, Kathleen,

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Speaker 2: we had him locked up, they just let him out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's that's another part of this whole story

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Speaker 1: that concerns me. And I'm not being critical of Karen

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Speaker 1: Webb here, the former former commissioner, but I'm somewhat confused.

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Speaker 1: You might be able to add some clarity to it.

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Speaker 1: But when he was, and I'll respect the fact you

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Speaker 1: don't want his name mentioned, so he doesn't deserve it, okay.

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Speaker 1: When he was charged with Audrey's murder, he was also

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Speaker 1: charged with eleven other counts of the breaching AVOs and

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Speaker 1: domestic violence related related matters. My understanding, he was put

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Speaker 1: before the courts in October, granted the corrections order and released.

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Speaker 1: It was fairly stringent, and then he was sentenced on

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth of January correctional orders. These breaches of the

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Speaker 1: avas related to his former wife. And I've also picked

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Speaker 1: up on the information that she's saying that she was

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Speaker 1: concerned about the amount of times that she contacted the

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Speaker 1: police asking whether he's been located, and he hadn't been located.

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Speaker 1: My concerns, and this is speculating here that he can't

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Speaker 1: be that difficult to find because he was committing the

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Speaker 1: fences by using his telephone.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: Now, if someone's got their telephone, as police officers, we

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Speaker 1: can find them.

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Speaker 2: This is what I'm saying about the location. When my

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Speaker 2: girlfriend saw him at the location the week later, I said,

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Speaker 2: when I was driving up for the ritual that day,

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Speaker 2: and I drove past the creek. I was coming from

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Speaker 2: Sydney and I was driving past to come up to Terrgill.

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Speaker 2: And I went past and I saw all the police there,

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Speaker 2: and I pulled in and I said, what's going on.

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Speaker 2: They said, we're doing a reenactment. And I walked up

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Speaker 2: to one of the detectives that was being there from

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Speaker 2: day dot and said to her, I've been informed a

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Speaker 2: girlfriend had phoned in about seeing him the week after,

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Speaker 2: and she came in and did a statement because obviously

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Speaker 2: by this stage she saw the photo and identified the

359
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Speaker 2: clothing he was wearing. She said to me, yes, his

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Speaker 2: phone diged to the location, right.

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Speaker 1: They denied that later when your girlfriend said she saw

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Speaker 1: saw him, he was there, that when they were doing

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Speaker 1: the re enactment. Was that after he'd been arrested. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: I understand that.

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Speaker 2: This was the day of the ritual.

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Speaker 1: Getting back to the offenses that he was wanted for now,

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Speaker 1: I've heard the Commission of Web say that, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: put him before, put him before the courts, and I

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Speaker 1: understand that. I understand the frustration from the police, like

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Speaker 1: we can't control the courts. We've got to accept the

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Speaker 1: court's decisions. I'm just curious how long, with eleven breaches

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Speaker 1: of avas, how long police were looking for him before?

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Speaker 2: Correct? That's what I think too.

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Speaker 1: Audrey's murder and what efforts were done to find him?

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 1: When were those offenses committed? Because I look at his

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Speaker 1: criminal history. Well, I've seen of his criminal history and

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Speaker 1: the past offenses and the threats that were made to

379
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Speaker 1: his ex wife. They're concerning in anyone's level. You don't

380
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Speaker 1: have to be a cop to think this person's potentially dangerous.

381
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Speaker 2: I want to know exactly what happened from day dot.

382
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Speaker 2: I want to know exactly exactly what was done. Why

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Speaker 2: we were told it was a misadventure, Why it was

384
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Speaker 2: put down as a misadventure. Why nothing was ever said

385
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Speaker 2: to me, even if they, like you said, if I

386
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Speaker 2: was a lunatic or whatever, and they felt they couldn't

387
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Speaker 2: approach me, Why didn't I get the support so that song.

388
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Speaker 2: Why did they allow me to come in there knowing

389
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Speaker 2: I was very stressed and I was looking for answers.

390
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Speaker 2: At no stage did they ever say to me, Kathleen,

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Speaker 2: we're looking into this, or we're doing this, We're going

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Speaker 2: to look or even we're going to try and do this,

393
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Speaker 2: or we're going to do this nothing misadventure. Would that

394
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Speaker 2: make absolutely make a difference, absolutely absolutely if I knew

395
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Speaker 2: they were looking. If I knew they were looking, and

396
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Speaker 2: I would still wouldn't stopped myself because obviously if they

397
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Speaker 2: were looking, why is it that I found we found

398
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Speaker 2: all this stuff? How do you not find a phone?

399
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Speaker 2: How do you not go down the lot? That's what

400
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 2: I said to him. How did you not go down

401
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: there in low tide? He said, because we've got the divers.

402
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: So three people on three different days have gone down

403
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Speaker 2: there scouting, and yet no one thinks to go and

404
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: look for low type. But yes, let's pay for the

405
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: government to go and send some divers down there. Lets

406
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 2: them do that when all they had to do is

407
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: go down low tide and they would have found it. Strange.

408
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: I think they are just in my opinion, I think

409
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Speaker 1: they want the divers in there as well, even at

410
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Speaker 1: low tide. These are the type of things. But yeah,

411
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Speaker 1: as I said, if you can't find the phone of

412
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Speaker 1: a girl that's found de sea in water, you'd be

413
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Speaker 1: looking at Okay, Well, there's a potential something suspicious there

414
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Speaker 1: where is the phone? Because we've we keep our phones

415
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Speaker 1: in their pockets or keep them close to us. Where

416
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Speaker 1: is where is the phone? Was it the robbery?

417
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Speaker 2: Can I just say in regards to that, So in

418
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Speaker 2: this time that I'm stressing about the phone, where's the phone?

419
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Speaker 2: Where's a phone? This is when I picked the car

420
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Speaker 2: up and I found the computer. So when you think

421
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Speaker 2: they'd go through the computer which I found on her.

422
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Speaker 1: iPad linked to the phone.

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Speaker 2: No, that she'd phoned a cab, So why didn't they

424
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Speaker 2: find that? Why didn't they go through her computer and

425
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: have a lot.

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Speaker 1: You're sorry you're found on her computer when you've gone from.

427
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Speaker 2: Her computer, she's got another iPad at home. The iPad,

428
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 2: so they're all connected. She made a call to an

429
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Speaker 2: uber and I don't know if it turned up or

430
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Speaker 2: what happened, but she'd made that call. And when I

431
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Speaker 2: said to them, why you know, my consum was, why

432
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Speaker 2: didn't they go into that computer? Like it's linked to

433
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Speaker 2: her phone. Anything that was on that phone would have

434
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: been lenked. She would have known who she was talking to,

435
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 2: who she had, you know, all that stuff, and they

436
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: didn't take the computer.

437
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: Is that? At what point did they take a car

438
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: straight away? Where was from?

439
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 2: Terrible?

440
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: It was that terrible? So they sees that that straight away.

441
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: Do you hope to at some point in time sit

442
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: down with police that take ownership of what has happened

443
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: in regards to this investigation or from your perspective and

444
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: until we hear from the police, we don't know their

445
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: side of the story from your perspective. Failings in an investigation?

446
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: Do you have to have a sit down and go

447
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: through those so this type of thing doesn't happen again?

448
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: No, why they've done it? What's going to be done?

449
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: Like when I asked if the constable that was there

450
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: the day that we found Audrey, and he walked up

451
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 2: to me and he said, sorry for your condolence, and

452
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 2: then he was telling you so when I said to him,

453
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: I wanted to you know, like I wanted to put it.

454
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: I was angry. I want to put a complaint in.

455
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: And they when he is being addressed, is that's been sorted?

456
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: Do you really need to make it further? And I

457
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 2: kind of went, well, Okay, well it's been addressed.

458
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: Maybe not see I see something like that, And I said,

459
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: I'd be honest with you. I see people in situations

460
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: like that, young young police. They don't know how.

461
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: He's not young.

462
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: Don't wreck my version of events. Okay, he might be inexperienced,

463
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: just but inexperience some people don't know how. So if

464
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: it's a clumsiness in the way to talk to a victim, perhaps.

465
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Okay, might take that all right, don't be

466
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: in the industry. He's a police officer, for God's sake.

467
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: I had that view and look where it got me.

468
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: You well, there's no higher honor as an investigator, as

469
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: a police officer than too and higher honor and responsibility

470
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: to investigate someone's death. And you know where people are

471
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: making comments that you choose the wrong word, and that

472
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: can be like a triggering effect for someone that's been

473
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 1: through what you've gone through. I see how mistakes can

474
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: be made, and genuine mistakes like that what I'm looking

475
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: at from what you've told me, And I think with this,

476
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: and we don't normally go this far, but I think

477
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: we'll reach out to the police and see if if

478
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: they can give their perspective on a couple of things,

479
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: because some of the things that you've told me are

480
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: quite quite shocking, and I think it is a failing

481
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: in regards to the way matters should be investigated. And

482
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: see what they say. You have said you don't want

483
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: or it doesn't matter because it's happened.

484
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm sorry. I'll probably rephrase it. It's not

485
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: that I don't want to because at the coroner's report,

486
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: that's when I want it to come out. That's when

487
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 2: I want to hear it. I want to hear it

488
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: all the excuses. I mean, I suppose it's probably good

489
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: to hear what their excuses are.

490
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: Well, a speculation here. I don't know what was acting

491
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: on their mind, but I know when I was involved

492
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: in it, I would say to junior police and bosses

493
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: that I respect people that have seeing you to me,

494
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: you make a mistake, a genuine mistake, and will support

495
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: you like a genuine mistake, so a wrong assumption or

496
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: different things, genuine mistake. I've seen the power of them,

497
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: and in matters that I've been involved in where the

498
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: commissioner has come up and apologized to some families and

499
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: it meant a lot to them, and it was as

500
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: simple as we're sorry, we could have done better, correct

501
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: and that meant it didn't fix what was being done,

502
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: but he did also say and will learn from these mistakes,

503
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: So that I thought was very powerful, and that took

504
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: about ten years to get the commissioner to come to

505
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: this community and talk like that. But I know from

506
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: their point of view, and I think they're comfortable with

507
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: me speaking on their behalf. It did help them at

508
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: least there was some acknowledgment that the mistakes were being made.

509
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: Anyone that's listening to the podcasts to our chat here

510
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: can hear the pain that you're going through and what

511
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: you've been through, and the circumstances added to that pain

512
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: is when police haven't done their job or you don't

513
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: believe they've done their job, and that just adds adds

514
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: to the trauma.

515
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely, like I don't know who I am anymore. I

516
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: don't need you know. People say how are you? How

517
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 2: do I answer that. I get up every day, I

518
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 2: get dressed, I move on. I do what I have

519
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 2: to do. I went to my doctor last night and

520
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: she's like, are you using anything? Are you drinking? And

521
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I'm not drinking, I'm not taking drugs.

522
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: I'm not using any medication. I would swim to clear

523
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: my head. I can't do that. Now I haven't been

524
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: able to get back into the ocean and swim with

525
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: my friends. She has recommended that she's amazing and once

526
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: again she's behind us as well, and it is going

527
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: to be following this journey with me, and she has come,

528
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: she will be coming to the coroner's report. Well, what's

529
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: happening now is up every day. And she said to me,

530
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: you know at early stage when she said to me, look, Kathleen,

531
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: you need to own, you need to accept for you

532
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: to start moving forward. I haven't even started to grieve.

533
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: I can't talk to my How many people say, do

534
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: you talk to her? Do you do this?

535
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: Do that?

536
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: I have got a war so high. I know she's

537
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: with me. I love her every day, but I have

538
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: got a war that is just protecting me so high

539
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: because I need. I need some justice for my daughter.

540
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: And if I crumble, I will crumble. And when I crumble,

541
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: I know I am so scared to stop. I am

542
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: so scared to stop motivating or I can't be alone.

543
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: You know I can't. I'm not. I don't know who

544
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: I am and I don't know who I'm ever going

545
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: to be again. And I know people say time heills,

546
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: but I'm sorry. I don't see that. I don't see

547
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: how my life has any purpose. And don't get me wrong,

548
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, as I said, I'm not doing drugs,

549
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: I'm not doing alcohol, I'm not suicidal, I'm not anything.

550
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: But my life is not looking pretty. And for me,

551
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: every day I get up is just purely for my

552
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: daughter to get justice, because she is not a number.

553
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: She is an amazing young woman that I will fight

554
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: for until we get justice. I'm not even sure what

555
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: that looks like yet.

556
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you what in your mind?

557
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: What is justice?

558
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: Justice is? Once again, those little steps of people like

559
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: him apologizing. What are the government? They all get to

560
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: sit there and just tick their little boxes and just

561
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: move on. Where's the heart? Where is the heart? There's

562
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: no heart, there's no And for me and Trevor, where

563
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: the case is finished as far as they're concerned, because

564
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: he murdered himself and now it's just put in a

565
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: filing cabinet and put away and we're just there to

566
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: just And how does that happen? How does someone let

567
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: someone out that has a record and a history to

568
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: do that to it? Not a girl that's been in

569
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: any kind of trouble with domestic violence. Didn't know. The

570
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: man takes a woman who was going to serve for

571
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: our country and a beautiful soul. He murders her. He

572
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: takes her life away from her. He takes his life

573
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: and it gets put in a filing cabinet and off

574
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: we go. Where is where is the justice for her?

575
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: Where is the justice for her friends who found her?

576
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: That the support? There's been no support whatsoever for them. Children.

577
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: They're all struggling. They're nineteen, the kids, they're nineteen years

578
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: of age. Where's the support? The government have done this,

579
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: they allowed him out. They need to take some responsibility

580
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: and instead of keep fixing the people that are damaged

581
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: in regards to drugs and alcohol and all that stuff,

582
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: how about helping the people that are good people that

583
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: have been out there. They're doing well, they're going to university,

584
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: they're trying to make something their life, and they've been

585
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: put in a situation that the government's put them in

586
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: and there's not one bit of support, no counseling, no nothing,

587
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: not even for me, but for them. It breaks my

588
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: heart to think at nineteen, these young girls have to

589
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: go through this. That's what the Where's the platform and

590
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 2: where's the heart?

591
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: Well, look in the answer to the questions, what is

592
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: justice wears the heart? All these failings of the system.

593
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: I look at it, breaking it down in parts. How

594
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: was it investigated? Now, if mistakes were made, we've got

595
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: to learn from those mistakes because someone else is going

596
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: to be sitting in And I know this from my

597
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: time in homicide. If we don't learn, someone else will

598
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: be sitting in your position because more mistakes will be made.

599
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: I have had so many families reach out to me

600
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: when I was in the cops and when I'm out

601
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: of the cops, saying, we're not sure if this has

602
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: been done properly. Did the police check this. I've been

603
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: involved in investigations that were written off as misadventure and

604
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: turned out to be something something more more sinister. I've

605
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: been involved in it. So I think that's an important

606
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: platform that's about justice making sure that these type of

607
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: things are handled properly. Everyone makes mistakes, and I don't

608
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: get the sense and in all my conversations with you

609
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: haven't been beating up on them. Want this person that person,

610
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: You're just going this is what's happened. It shouldn't happen

611
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: and by talking about it, hopefully it won't happen and

612
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: people understand there is a responsibility that comes with investigating

613
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: someone's death.

614
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 2: But what about also to the support And that's the

615
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: part too, Like, yes, the police, they've done it, they'll

616
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 2: get a slap on the wrist, off they go, and

617
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: you know, obviously these people have been involved, they're going

618
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 2: to be more alert of course after this, especially having

619
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 2: someone like me that's just not backing down. What about support?

620
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: Where's that?

621
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: Where's the support were you put in contact when it

622
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: was confirmed that Audrey had been murdered? The victims of homicide?

623
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: Did they a gracehouse? Amazing? Look, look they're great, they're great,

624
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: they're beautiful, they're great.

625
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: But the other people will be okay, But.

626
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: Without being disrespectful, I'm talking to somebody that hasn't And look,

627
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: and as I said, I'm not here to rubbish or

628
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: do anyone, but I'm not talking to people that are

629
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: in a situation who have Oh I don't know how

630
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: to put this across. They're great and you know, the

631
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: support in many ways they've been great. Anything to do

632
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: with that situation For me, I'm like, oh my god,

633
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 2: do you actually have children. How can you sit here

634
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: and say to me, we've granted you twenty hours of counseling,

635
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 2: we can only one I'm unlyavailable between nine and five. Sorry,

636
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: I can only have a breakdown between nine and five.

637
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: I should be twenty four hours a day. I should

638
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: be for the rest of my life if I need it.

639
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: I'm not out there doing drugs and taking our cal

640
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: I'm trying my best.

641
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, and you're a supports wrong.

642
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: You're a victim of crime and the support is not

643
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: adequate in regards to it. So that's something again, it's

644
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: worthwhile worthwhile raising whether I don't know whether it can

645
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: be improved or how it could be improved, but I

646
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: do take on board what you're saying there, and the

647
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: type of help you need might vary from what it

648
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: might not be what other people need. Each trauma is

649
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: handled differently by each each person. With the other people

650
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: affected by crime, we need to have someone that they

651
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: can go to to see are they entitled to? And

652
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: I can only imagine Audrey's friends that what they've been through,

653
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: and especially the ones that were at the scene, and

654
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: how they're coping with it. In regards to we've talked

655
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: about the investigation. I think something that's really worthwhile finding

656
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: out is hold it. Because we talk tough, we're very

657
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: good at talking tough about we're cracking down on domestic violence,

658
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: and all these women have been killed by their ex

659
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: partners and different things like that. I want to know

660
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: and I hopefully, hopefully it will come out in the

661
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: inquest about the person that killed Audrey? When did he

662
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: commit the offenses he was charged with, and how long

663
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: he was on the run for and what efforts were

664
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: made to locate him? Because to me, they looked like

665
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: that person was a serious risk of committing a violent

666
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: or significant offense. What efforts were made after he's been

667
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: granted bail from court, if he's committing other offenses, what

668
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: efforts were made to locate him? And it's not that

669
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: easy for people to hide these days.

670
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: They retrieved that conversation from his phone what he did

671
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: to my daughter, confessed to what he did. How are

672
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: these people not accountable? How do these people hide him

673
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: for three weeks, get a phone call and nothing can

674
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: be done? How is that? How is that?

675
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: Right now? Is this a hearing for the cornial inquest

676
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: on the twenty third of October, or is it the mention?

677
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: I guess again once again, I think I think it's

678
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 2: just a meeting where we catch up. It's not a hearing.

679
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: It's definitely not a hearing.

680
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's just a meeting. I think that before

681
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: the meeting you gave their well planned with These are

682
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: the questions I want asks and have those document them.

683
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: Have them. These are the questions I hope you can't demand,

684
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: but you can hope there are from an inquest and

685
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: put them on notice there for this podcast, and I'll

686
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: look at my producer to hear that we might revisit

687
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: this one, will put it out, but we also might

688
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: revisit it after the inquest and just see see if

689
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: anything has been achieved. And people listening to listening to

690
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: the podcast before the inquest will know that we'll be

691
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: watching closely about what potential lessons.

692
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 2: I mean, the whole idea of light up, the whole,

693
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 2: the ritual, the whole everything is to get the support

694
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: and the backing. We need as much people behind us

695
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 2: to help me. I need help, and I'm not saying

696
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to change the world. I want justice for

697
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: my daughter, and that's where it's got to start. First.

698
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: I can't move forward for any I've had a lot

699
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: of people try and reach out to me. I'm sorry,

700
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 2: I can't. I don't have that energy for anyone else.

701
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: This is purely for me right now, about Audrey and

702
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: getting her story of who she is, that she was

703
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: not in a domestic violence relationship. She didn't. I did

704
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: not know this gentleman, who Audrey is, this amazing young woman,

705
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 2: and that we get answers and there's change and there's justice,

706
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: and there's some kind of I don't know, Like as

707
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: I said, I really still don't exactly know, but it

708
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 2: will come. It'll come what you're looking for, it'll come

709
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: because I'm not I'm not settling for I will not.

710
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: I will not.

711
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: I Look, I'm not an expert on dealing with the

712
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: emotional trauma, but I've seen enough of it in my

713
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: time in homicide, and I think what people. You can't

714
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: even articulate what you want?

715
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: You know where I want to live?

716
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: You want to grab it, you want to you want this.

717
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: You want to find out what's happened. You want to

718
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: be know exactly what's happened, understand why it happened, how

719
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: it happened, and.

720
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want accountability to accountability from the all the

721
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: accountability from what they have done, what they have done,

722
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: they have done. He murdered my daughter, but he would

723
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: never have done that if they actually locked him up.

724
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,760
Speaker 2: That's where it starts. It's a rippling effect that people

725
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 2: just can't This is where the heart goes. This is

726
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. If someone's in a job constantly where

727
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: it just becomes replacing and they just they become hard,

728
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 2: and they make mistakes and they pulled back for a

729
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: little while, have a holiday, go and do what you

730
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: have to do, and learn to have a heart again,

731
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: because when you start getting into that place where you

732
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: don't have a heart, you're not helping anyone. And for

733
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 2: me having a heart and how I feel about my daughter,

734
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to rock this world and I'm telling you

735
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: I'm going to get justice because I won't stop. I

736
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: will not stop.

737
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: To me, it looks like Audrey has been caught up

738
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: in this domestic violence discussions that we've had in the

739
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: and she wasn't even in the relationship. She was just

740
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: an innocent person that was caught up in the wrong

741
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: place at the wrong time by this creep that's looking

742
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: at the inflicting violence on someone and she she's been

743
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: one of the innocent people caught up in this. So

744
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: all the discussion about domestic violence, this is a potential

745
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: flow on effect from it. And if we're going to

746
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 1: get touch and in that.

747
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: We've we've got a nonprofit charity set up, and as

748
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: I said, when I get justice, I will be putting

749
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 2: myself hopefully be able to do that move forward into

750
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: Audrey's nonprofit charity court stand with Audrey, and that is

751
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: a rippling effect for all my friends and all the

752
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: people around me that need to do what they need

753
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: to do here. But for me, I need to just

754
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: focus one hundred and ten percent on Audrey and then

755
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: later we'll see what happens. But I'm there anyway, all

756
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: the time, for all of them, all her friends, everyone,

757
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: I'm the one that's picking up the phone and talking

758
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 2: to them.

759
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 1: Well, I can see the emotion, I can see the passion,

760
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: and I can feel the anger, and I can feel

761
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: the energy, and I can feel the sadness all that's

762
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 1: coming across. And you said that you're not a helicopter parent,

763
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: You're a lioness.

764
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 2: What do I do when it's all finished? Like what

765
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: do I do when I have to stop?

766
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: Like?

767
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: How how do I live?

768
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 3: Like?

769
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 2: How how do I breathe?

770
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: How do I get up? How do I when I

771
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 3: start feeling this, when those roles come in and I

772
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 3: can't stop them.

773
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: I know how painful it is. And I put that

774
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: wall up, and I've taken up cigarettes and I have

775
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 2: a cigarette and I have a cigarette because I need

776
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: to block this to be fine. The I need to

777
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: find the strength. And I'm looking after myself. I'm eating,

778
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: not sweat, but I'm eating, and I'm sleeping as much

779
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: as I can. And I've got so much support around me.

780
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 2: I'm going about it in all the right ways.

781
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: I learned something about the grief on the podcast a

782
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: couple of episodes ago. And it's funny you think you've

783
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: seen all sides of it and understand it. And someone

784
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: who had been through horrific circumstances said. The kind of

785
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 1: thing that was said to the person was how are

786
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: you feeling today? Because when people come up, and I thought,

787
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: it's not a bad way because you are going to

788
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: go on that emotional rollcase and it's just a check

789
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: in how you're feeling. Today Today might be a little

790
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: bit better than yesterday, it might be worse than tomorrow,

791
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: who knows. But yeah, how you're feeling today? And the

792
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: lesson I took away from that is that you've just

793
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: got to take each day as it comes.

794
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: Well, I can't answer that. That's a hard one for me.

795
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: For me would be more, tell me about Audrey. Tell

796
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: me about Audrey, Give me something about Audrey. Let's not

797
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 2: focus on me on how I feel because I don't

798
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: know how to answer that, and I can't go I'm

799
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: great or I'm shit. So excuse me, but do you

800
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like I can't. I'm not a liar.

801
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 2: I say it how it is. So I don't want

802
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: to sit there and go, oh I'm fine or oh

803
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: no I'm not. I don't want to be heavy. I

804
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: don't want to be this. I just want to go

805
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 2: tell someone, walk up and just go tell me about Audry,

806
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 2: or tell me this about Audery, or talk about Audrey.

807
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: You told a lot of people about Audrey the day. Yeah,

808
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: plays rugby league, swims after sharks rides, made the bikes,

809
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: travels overseas, going skiing.

810
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: No, she did everything, playing the violin, playing the piano,

811
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 2: playing guitar, you know, traveling. She just rock climbing, you know,

812
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: like she worked two jobs, going to university doing a

813
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: nine man. This girl just.

814
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: These are the people of the worlds.

815
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 2: That's what she got into the navy. And how good

816
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: would she have done? And she wanted you know, her

817
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: goals three five novels but a year which were all inspiration,

818
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 2: you know, how to change the thinking of brain, and

819
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 2: how to motivate and all this to do I man,

820
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: which she succeeded to buy a house at the end

821
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five.

822
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: You wouldn't doubt it.

823
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 2: Oh, she already had thirty grand in the bank. Like,

824
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: and she worked two jobs, could you RSL and Kunolla RSL?

825
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 2: You know, like she was doing uni goal from one

826
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 2: to another, training for the affluon up at five o'clock

827
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 2: every morning, doing spin classes and then running. Getting up

828
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: in the morning doing a spin class, going running, doing

829
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: in a sunrise swim, coming home doing of that, then

830
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: going for another run, jumping in the ocean for sunset.

831
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: She was a wise soul, certainly amazing beautiful. That was

832
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,240
Speaker 2: just she was always a blossom. She's a natural beauty.

833
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: But she found herself and she was on that way.

834
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: She was happy, she was bribing and he took that

835
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 2: from her and us And how I cannot find someone

836
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: like her? A kid?

837
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: That's how they found finances? Is it?

838
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 2: As I said, I'll be told, this is probably my purpose.

839
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: I didn't come into this world to fight, but I

840
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 2: will be.

841
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: Well the person that you bought into the world short

842
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: short time. But gee, she burnt bright.

843
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 2: She sure did.

844
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 1: She's left an indelible mark. Or the concert that Gosford Stadium,

845
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: I call it Gosford Stadium, poly Tech outdoor head up,

846
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: both birds of take. Oh my god, she'd be smiling

847
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: looking looking at that.

848
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it should be at the front. And that

849
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 2: was the thing. She loved a music. It was so

850
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: funny like she you know, she was so romantic and

851
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 2: loved and had such high standards of you know, love

852
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 2: and you know what she wanted in so many ways.

853
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 2: But you know, then there was the music, like she

854
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: just loved that, you know. And that's why everyone used

855
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: to think she drank because you just like, but she didn't,

856
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 2: you know, like she just lived high correct.

857
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: Well, she she had a concert there and other things

858
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 1: that they've they've done for it. She's not going to

859
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: be forgotten, and that's certainly why you're you're you're here.

860
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: She's not.

861
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: Definitely not, definitely not, and you know, and I want

862
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: her to her be the girl she is, not the

863
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 2: girl that was taken at the Creek by domestic violence.

864
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: I want her to be Audrey. And I want everyone

865
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: to learn who she is and what she is and

866
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 2: take a book, take a page out of her book,

867
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 2: because honestly, she was one of her kind. And if

868
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: you was to say that things happen in a reason

869
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: and this was her time, I would take that and

870
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: say yep. But the fact that is the way she

871
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: was taken. I have reached out to so many religions

872
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 2: and just try to get there, get a feel on

873
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: how this is. And nothing makes sense. No one can

874
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: tell me so, And I'm the one that has to

875
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 2: live every day of that last vision and how she passed,

876
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 2: and how it's just been put in a filing cabinet

877
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 2: and put to bed.

878
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 1: It won't be put to bed, no, it's more. I look,

879
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: I've got to thank you for coming on the podcast.

880
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: I know Undernard and how hard it is for you

881
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: to talk about the answers that you want will try

882
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: and get bad chances.

883
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 2: So I need to get there, and you need to

884
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 2: be honest a little enough. I know that the whole

885
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 2: team behind is there.

886
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: I wouldn't like to be taking you guys on. We

887
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: might we might wrap it up here, So thanks for

888
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: your time.

889
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving