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Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to say out loud. I spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time trying to control what other people

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Speaker 1: thought of me. I think a lot of my performativeness,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the masking, was a way to try

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Speaker 1: and control other people's opinions. And I think letting that

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Speaker 1: go and just showing up as myself and just being like, well,

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Speaker 1: you fucking yolo, chips will lay where they lay and

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Speaker 1: you make up your mind about me has been the

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Speaker 1: greatest gift of learning. I'm near a divergent is letting

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Speaker 1: go of that. I think.

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Speaker 2: Good. Thanks so much for listening to the show. This

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Speaker 2: is Better than Yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations to

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Speaker 2: help make your day to day better than yesterday every

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Speaker 2: week twice a week at least since twenty thirteen. I'm

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Speaker 2: glad you made it. My names Osha Ginzburg. Thanks being

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Speaker 2: a part of the show. Got a question, what do

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Speaker 2: you think it's like to realize that the way you

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Speaker 2: have been living, the ideas you have about yourself and

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Speaker 2: your identity, your expectations of life, the relationships you're involved in,

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Speaker 2: all of it. What's it like to realize that all

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Speaker 2: the things you think about is completely at odds with

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Speaker 2: the very way that your brain is wired to work.

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Speaker 2: For the many people who have discovered later in life

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Speaker 2: that they are near or a divergent, this is not

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Speaker 2: a hypothetical. It is exactly what they are faced with

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Speaker 2: and understandably it can be a lot, not just for

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Speaker 2: them but for the people around them, and hearing someone

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Speaker 2: talk about it can bring a lot of understanding, a

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Speaker 2: lot of empathy. So asking a person who's living with

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Speaker 2: this is a good place to start, and that's what

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Speaker 2: we did with m Rosciano. Em is a writer, singer,

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Speaker 2: keynote speaker, comedian, podcaster. I met her on Australian Idol

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Speaker 2: quite some time ago. We do talk about that and

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Speaker 2: she's had The last five years have been big for m.

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Speaker 2: As she describes this in her biography Blood, Sweat and Glitter,

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Speaker 2: these last five years have been a time of burnout

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Speaker 2: and break down, but also a time where she gained

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Speaker 2: an immense new understanding of herself thanks to dual diagnosis

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Speaker 2: of ADHD and autism. Today we speak about how that

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Speaker 2: diagnosis came about, the emotions that come with it, the

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Speaker 2: emotions from grief to joy, how that has changed the

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Speaker 2: way that em lives and how she sees both herself

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Speaker 2: and the world. She and I also we compare notes

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Speaker 2: on what it's like to live there to day with

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Speaker 2: a brain that's a little different. We talk about dealing

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Speaker 2: with the fallout of a toxic workplace, and importantly, we

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Speaker 2: look at what it means to break free of living

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Speaker 2: according to the expectations of others. Em is fantastic. She

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Speaker 2: gives wonderful insight into what it's like to come to

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Speaker 2: neurodivergence as an adult, and no matter how that relates

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Speaker 2: to you, you're going to get a lot out of

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Speaker 2: this conversation, a conversation which we'll get to right after

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Speaker 2: this break. Thanks so much for listening to the show.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into the chat. I thoroughly enjoyed catching up

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Speaker 2: with and reflecting on many of the shared experiences that

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Speaker 2: I've had with em Orciano. She is passionate, she's a

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Speaker 2: hilarious human being, and she's just so wonderfully herself. Enjoy

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us today, my dear em. We've

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Speaker 2: been trying to do this since I started this podcast.

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Speaker 1: For so long, for so long, but I think the

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Speaker 1: universe knew you and I needed to be cracked open

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Speaker 1: if you turned before we come together.

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Speaker 2: Let's fucking make an omelet with these brains.

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Speaker 1: First, it knew that we would rip a hole in

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Speaker 1: the space time continual if we did it unmedicated and unthrapied.

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Speaker 1: Here we are.

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Speaker 2: Greatful to be medicated today. Oh mate, Caffeine is the

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Speaker 2: only thing that I put in my body now that

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Speaker 2: isn't prescribed to me.

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Speaker 1: I'm having to come off one because it was making

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Speaker 1: me depressed. So the delicate balance at my system to

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Speaker 1: get medication right for me is my poor doctors. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm coming off one because they figured out it was

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Speaker 1: making me morbidly depressed. I'm trying another one better. No,

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Speaker 1: it's been horrendous. Yeah, yeah, I haven't lined it all

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Speaker 1: up yet because I'm in hormonial healthscape plus ADHD plus

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Speaker 1: all the other things. So that's like I have to

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Speaker 1: basically eat it cows worth of protein every day. I've

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Speaker 1: got to get Omega three, I've got to have my vievans,

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Speaker 1: I've got to make sure I'm having my estrogen patches,

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Speaker 1: my progesterone and lining that all up is a full

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Speaker 1: time job. But if I ever actually do it, you

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Speaker 1: all need to just look out I manage if I

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Speaker 1: managed to ever do it once, go to the gym,

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Speaker 1: get enough sleep. It's a full time job being well,

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Speaker 1: and I'm adhd so it's really fucking boring too. And

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Speaker 1: it's a full time job. I show up to part

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Speaker 1: time and can't get fired from I've tried.

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Speaker 2: Now, there are some people that may not know that

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Speaker 2: you and I know each other and have known each

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Speaker 2: other for some time.

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Speaker 1: Yes, over twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the first time we met? I vaguely,

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Speaker 2: vaguely recall early memories. It was season two of Now

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Speaker 2: let me preface this. It was season two of Australian Idol,

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Speaker 2: which is the season that I don't actually remember, making.

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Speaker 1: Me neither that season two was wild and I don't

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Speaker 1: remember because I got an explosive period arriving into Sydney

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Speaker 1: for the Top one hundred and I didn't have I

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Speaker 1: left my wallet in Melbourne, as well as hot mess.

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Speaker 1: First time I've been away from my two year old

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Speaker 1: at the time. She's now twenty four by the way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so if you look back a footage of the Top

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Speaker 1: one hundred arriving into Sydney, you'll see me at the

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Speaker 1: back of the pack, just crab walking down with my

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Speaker 1: jumper tight around my waist, and that was the beginning

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Speaker 1: of my Australion journey. Was a big like Japanese flag

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Speaker 1: at the back of my pants. Who and it only

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Speaker 1: went really downhill from there. But I think I met you,

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Speaker 1: I want to say, at the Seamoor Center. Were you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you guys were at the Seamor Center. Yeah, where the

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Speaker 1: top one hundred got to get up. And I really

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Speaker 1: didn't know if I was there because I was a

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Speaker 1: good singer, because I'd never sung before, or if I

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Speaker 1: was just you know, the one that says on my

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Speaker 1: mum says I'm a good singer. I didn't know where

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Speaker 1: I fell in the scheme of serious contenders, so it

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Speaker 1: was fraught and I was terrified the whole time. But

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Speaker 1: I think I remember you and James at the Seamall

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Speaker 1: Center and instantly bantering with you, and we were all

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Speaker 1: very quick and very like. I liked you both straight away.

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Speaker 2: You have a thing that works in those situations and

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Speaker 2: we were able to quickly get there. My first real memory,

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Speaker 2: clear memory of you was in the top twelve portion,

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Speaker 2: Like when we were on the live part. You said

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Speaker 2: something which would turn out to be prophetic. We were

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Speaker 2: still dial up internet at the time really for most people,

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Speaker 2: and if you're too young, the internet used to sound

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Speaker 2: like trying to play a recorder with an AM radio

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Speaker 2: while throwing it down the stairs with a xylophone. That's

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Speaker 2: what it sounded like to get online. And we had

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Speaker 2: these Internet forums which allowed people to anonymously say shit

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Speaker 2: about the people. And I remember handing you the microphone,

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Speaker 2: and I remember you said rule number one, don't read

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Speaker 2: the forums. Don't read the forums. And I just found

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Speaker 2: that extraordinary. That's so early on in our collective experience

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Speaker 2: of being judged by public who never had to show

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Speaker 2: their faces. You knew the boundary of like, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to any of that noise.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's one I've managed to stick to for

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Speaker 1: twenty years pretty much unless people send me. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people in a well meaning way will send me

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Speaker 1: other people's opinions of me. And yeah, I know. But

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky that I have an amazing relationship with my

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Speaker 1: community where I was able to just finally one time,

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Speaker 1: say hey, I'm really grateful that you're out there with

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Speaker 1: your swords fighting the battles for me or standing up

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Speaker 1: for me, but I don't need to know someone else's

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Speaker 1: opinion about me, Please don't post it here, or I

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Speaker 1: just for my own mental health, and since then they're

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Speaker 1: pretty good. It's pretty good. I think I've found this

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Speaker 1: corner of the universe where you either know who I

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Speaker 1: am because you're in the m Rossiano community, or you

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Speaker 1: have no idea who I am and for me for

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Speaker 1: my rejection sensitivity issues and my mental health, it's a

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Speaker 1: really lovely, wonderful level of fame or whatever you want

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Speaker 1: to call it.

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Speaker 2: You describe a world that we evolved to live in

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Speaker 2: a world where I broke up with someone fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 2: my phone doesn't fucking show me a photo of that

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Speaker 2: person on this day in two thousand, Like I don't care.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm seeing this person and this giant flood of

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Speaker 2: shit is hitting. You don't think about people for years

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Speaker 2: for a reason, Nor do we hear the opinion of

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Speaker 2: people that don't immediately manage us. We're not wired or

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Speaker 2: built or evolved to We're not wired. And then just

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Speaker 2: read some text and then put that through a filter

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Speaker 2: of like this is I'm going to treat this the

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Speaker 2: same as a person I respect, and now it's devastating.

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Speaker 2: It's a harpoon versus like, oh, there's just some pixels

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Speaker 2: on the screen. I don't give a funk. We're not

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Speaker 2: wine for it. I love that you've got that boundary.

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Speaker 1: But it was just life or death for me. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't I'm not curious about other people's thoughts on me.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not like, go for it, knock yourself out.

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Speaker 1: But I'm a very direct person, and I surround myself

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Speaker 1: with cle people, and I make sure they all feel

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Speaker 1: very comfortable telling me the truth, and I respect them,

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Speaker 1: and if I want to know something, I fucking ask. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: your unsolicited opinions do you not interest me?

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Speaker 2: I could not agree more. I was just telling Adam

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Speaker 2: about the glorious irony of you being on masked Singer.

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Speaker 1: It was life changing. It saved my life. I've written

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Speaker 1: about it in the book. It's just the greatest experience

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Speaker 1: I've ever had.

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Speaker 2: When the head came off and I saw your face,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, but I will tell you this him.

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Speaker 2: I know you enough. When I looked in your face,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, there's a lot more going on there

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Speaker 2: than there was last time I saw Heah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been about twenty years, so yeah.

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Speaker 2: But like I could tell there was something in your

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Speaker 2: eye that was different.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean, explain?

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Speaker 2: There was a gravity about you and an awareness about

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Speaker 2: you that I'd not seen before, a self a self awareness.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't need to learn anything more about myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my cup is full. Tell me Why why was mask?

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Speaker 2: Why was the Master Singer something that you know, it

200
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Speaker 2: came along at a time in your life you won't

201
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Speaker 2: expecting the phone call somebody else dropped out for whatever

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Speaker 2: reason they called you. Why was the Mast Singer so transformative?

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Speaker 1: For so many reasons? It came at a time where

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Speaker 1: as a live performer, we were in multiple lockdowns, my

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Speaker 1: entire career had ground to hold. And I also know

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Speaker 1: that I'm probably one of the few performers that has

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Speaker 1: the unique skill set that cancel it in two weeks

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Speaker 1: before the Master Singer begins, I didn't get to pick

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Speaker 1: the songs. The songs were preordained, the keys were preordained,

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Speaker 1: the arrangements are preordained, and for me, I just was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: hell yeah, let's do it. The last time I sang

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Speaker 1: was on astra Il in the general public, in the

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Speaker 1: arena of people who don't choose me is what I

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Speaker 1: call commercial television. And I have always had a chip

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Speaker 1: on my shoulder about how bad Lee I did on

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Speaker 1: that show because I'd never sung in public. I'd never learned,

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Speaker 1: you know, how to arrange a song or how to

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Speaker 1: pick a key that sits me. And I look back

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Speaker 1: on that time because singing is my favorite thing that

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Speaker 1: I do. It's the thing that brings me closest to

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Speaker 1: religion I think that I'll ever get. It keeps me

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Speaker 1: in the moment, it gives me great peace, and it

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Speaker 1: really has bothered me and gnawed at my gut that

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Speaker 1: I did so badly the first time I got to sing.

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Speaker 1: So I saw the mass singer as almost my redemption.

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Speaker 1: But I knew a lot of people had a lot

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Speaker 1: of preconceived ideas about me. So the idea that I

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Speaker 1: got to do it anonymously and just in the most

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Speaker 1: pure way because I sung live every single week. I

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Speaker 1: didn't pre record anything. They went with my first track,

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Speaker 1: nothing was auto tuned, and I just liked the idea

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Speaker 1: of getting another go And there was no other circumstance

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Speaker 1: where I could think of the where people didn't know

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Speaker 1: for sure if it was m Rasciana when all they

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Speaker 1: had was the voice and the giant toilet Dolly that

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Speaker 1: I was so getting to do that. And I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed the team. I really enjoyed just the purity of

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Speaker 1: just singing. I didn't have to worry about what my

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Speaker 1: face was doing, if I had makeup on, if my

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Speaker 1: outfit was right. I just got to sit inside that

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Speaker 1: big stupid cage Dolly cherub, terrifying nightmare fuel costume and

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Speaker 1: do the thing I love most in the world, which

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Speaker 1: is seeing. And it was glorious. And I got to

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Speaker 1: sit in that trailer by myself. They sold it to

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Speaker 1: me like, no, are You're going to be spending a

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Speaker 1: lot of time alone and you know it's going to

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Speaker 1: be hard, and I'm like, are you trying to this is?

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Speaker 1: It was the most beautiful glory because I'd been in

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Speaker 1: lockdown with my family for like fucking twenty five months

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Speaker 1: in Melbourne, so it was beautiful. It was so good,

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Speaker 1: and it was just everything was great. Macy Gray was there.

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Speaker 1: I knew Macy Gray was there the second she opened

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Speaker 1: her mouth. Anastasia was there, like it was so good,

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Speaker 1: and everybody who worked on the show wonderful. I don't

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Speaker 1: know it really, It just came at the right time

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Speaker 1: and I was figuring out I was adhd and so

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Speaker 1: I was able to completely unmask in a giant mask.

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Speaker 1: The great irony of that situation.

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Speaker 2: For people who don't who are unfamiliar with the term,

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Speaker 2: what have you come to learn about masking?

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Speaker 1: I mean I've masked my whole life. I've masked from

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Speaker 1: the age of three. I very quickly figured out that

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Speaker 1: I am too big, too much, too hard, too loud.

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Speaker 1: I've quick figured that out, real quick, and especially as

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Speaker 1: a little girl. Now I know I'm autistic. And as

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Speaker 1: a little girl, I started studying kids to try and

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Speaker 1: figure out how to move through the world in a

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Speaker 1: way that didn't, you know, bring me too much harm.

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Speaker 1: So I started creating other people's versions of me, and

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Speaker 1: it just I would meet people, quickly assess the mask

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Speaker 1: I needed to put on for them, and then perform

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Speaker 1: it and then go. And it would take me three

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Speaker 1: or four days to recover from social situations, from school,

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Speaker 1: from anything that involved me performing. I would step into

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Speaker 1: my human suit each day, pull it up and presco

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Speaker 1: I hit forty and lockdowns happened perimenopause started and I

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Speaker 1: had a complete nervous breakdown and could not mask up anymore.

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Speaker 1: So that began the great kind of unraveling and clearing

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Speaker 1: of all of the previous versions of me that didn't

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Speaker 1: serve me, that were betraying me in a way. But

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Speaker 1: the masking is, yes, showing up and trying to anticipate

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Speaker 1: what that person wants from you, rather than just being

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Speaker 1: really authentic and yourself. But I didn't actually know who

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Speaker 1: that was. I had so many masks on for so

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Speaker 1: many years. So I think a part of me and

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Speaker 1: the things that I make and the way that I

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Speaker 1: make them and how I've kind of built my business

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Speaker 1: is has allowed me to slowly walk back to the person.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think I could have become the person I want

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Speaker 1: to be, but I've also become the person I needed.

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Speaker 1: But the masking is something women do, especially if they're

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Speaker 1: ne're a divergent. I think neurotypical women do it to

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Speaker 1: a certain extent as well, and it's exhausting. It's really exhausting.

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Speaker 1: So inside that big mask, that toilet doll mask, I

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Speaker 1: didn't have to have my face in a certain way,

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Speaker 1: or you know, pretend I was listening or making the

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Speaker 1: right amount of eye contact, which it's always too much

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Speaker 1: or not enough. I never get it right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's an element of there's an element of masking

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Speaker 2: that I think is as normal, and most people do it.

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Speaker 2: We all have a workface, you know. But what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about, the masking you're talking about, is I'm not

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Speaker 2: I actually intuitively don't understand what to do here. I

305
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Speaker 2: can see that person is getting what something that I

306
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Speaker 2: would like. I will copy what they do. And now

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Speaker 2: we all kind of do this as we learn, right,

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Speaker 2: kids learn by watching and people Osmo's these behaviors and things,

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Speaker 2: and so they come to learn intuitively how to behave

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Speaker 2: in different situations.

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Speaker 1: But you're also getting messages that he you are truly

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Speaker 1: is not okay, Yes, precisely, that's what was happening with me.

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Speaker 2: Nothing you want is happening, nothing you want is going right,

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Speaker 2: and everything you're doing is wrong, And yeah, givesburg what's

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Speaker 2: wrong with you? Little one? And so you start, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I know what I need to do here, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to do my version of what that person is doing.

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Speaker 2: Ah here I am, but now where am I?

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Speaker 1: But it's so tiring because every single interaction is running

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Speaker 1: through the filter, so you're not just walking into a

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Speaker 1: room and going over to your friend to talk. I

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Speaker 1: walk into a room. The music's very loud. I can

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Speaker 1: hear the plate crashing. I can hear that lady with

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Speaker 1: his voices raising. She might be getting upset. So I

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Speaker 1: better check on that. In about five minutes. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go over to that personal It was the

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Speaker 1: last time I talked to them. Oh my god, the

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Speaker 1: smell from the kitchens coming at me. Okay, Now make

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Speaker 1: sure when you talk to them you make enough. I

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Speaker 1: con'tact like there's this running commentary on every single interaction

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Speaker 1: and filter that I have to put in play, that

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Speaker 1: everything's it's just nothing, Which is why you know, I

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Speaker 1: think I ended up in performing because the purest form

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Speaker 1: of me is on stage. It's just coming out. But

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Speaker 1: for me, it was the constant messages of who I

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Speaker 1: actually am underneath it all isn't right, and you don't

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Speaker 1: have any confidence in it at all none, So you do.

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Speaker 1: You put the mask on event, and it's exhausting. It's

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Speaker 1: so tiring.

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Speaker 2: Getting diagnosed for ADHD is getting less difficult, but it

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Speaker 2: is not difficult. One of the things they often ask

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Speaker 2: is do you have any report cards left over from

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Speaker 2: your kid reading yours? In the book? You could have

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Speaker 2: swapped the You could have swapped the properly. I's out.

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Speaker 2: Emmy has so much potential if only should applay yourself.

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Speaker 2: Emmy is easily distracted and distracts others. Emmy is too talkative,

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Speaker 2: Emmy is disorganized, Emmy needs to try harder. That literally

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Speaker 2: word for word, if you just put little Andrew in there,

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Speaker 2: it would have been my report card for the first

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Speaker 2: you know, seventeen years of my life. And then you

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Speaker 2: write something which I knew about, but I'd love to

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Speaker 2: explore a red more because you did mention it that.

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Speaker 2: There's some research to suggest that by the age of ten,

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Speaker 2: kids with ADHD will absorbed around twenty thousand more negative

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Speaker 2: messages about themselves than their neurotypical peers. What does that do?

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Speaker 2: How does that set somebody up for their life?

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Speaker 1: Well, it instantly makes you feel unsure and shame around

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Speaker 1: who you are at your core. And I think when

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Speaker 1: you're developing your sense of self as a little kid,

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Speaker 1: and you're figuring out how you're going to fit in

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Speaker 1: the world and what you want to do, if you're

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Speaker 1: told who you are is inherently broken and wrong, you

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Speaker 1: don't trust that burgeoning curiosity, and you don't trust the

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00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,120
Speaker 1: things that you even like. You don't even know if

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Speaker 1: that's okay. I had, you know, I was a massive

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Speaker 1: fantasy nerd, and all I wanted to do was talk

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Speaker 1: about Star Wars and the never ending story, and I

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00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 1: wanted to cut my hair like and I love the

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Ours and you know all that, and I

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Speaker 1: have this great fantasy we're going on in my head.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I very quickly quickly realized. I know

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Speaker 1: that wasn't cool. And you know, it was the nineties

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Speaker 1: and no one, you know, at twelve was talking about

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Speaker 1: that stuff. So I think the moment a little kid

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Speaker 1: starts getting messages that who they are at their core

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Speaker 1: is wrong, that inhibits their ability to become who they

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Speaker 1: would have become, how they had the right support systems

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Speaker 1: around them and being encouraged to explore the things that

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Speaker 1: make them, then I think it greatly alters the course

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Speaker 1: of your life. I think it's real shit. I think

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Speaker 1: it needs to be taken more seriously the way we

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Speaker 1: treat kids who don't fit inside the system and it's

383
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: become my life's passion to reframe social conversations around neurodivergence

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Speaker 1: and to make the world a kind of place when

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Speaker 1: you're divergent kids, because you know, ner neurotypical kids will

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00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 1: only benefit if neurodivergent kids are accommodated. There's nothing bad

387
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Speaker 1: about noise canceling headphones or not fatting school at nine,

388
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,719
Speaker 1: or you know, only doing four days a week, or

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Speaker 1: having you know, not horrible down lights in classrooms and

390
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,640
Speaker 1: having bean bags and not making them sit in chairs

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Speaker 1: and letting them have run around time when their legs

392
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Speaker 1: feel like they're full of electric ants like this. Just yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we treat kids who fall outside of what

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Speaker 1: we deem normal really badly, and I think we end

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Speaker 1: up with really angry, damaged adults as a result.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't agree with you more. And having seen the

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Speaker 2: way that Wolfe is now nearly six, there were kids

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Speaker 2: in his daycare, and there's kids in his year, in

399
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Speaker 2: his kinder year who probably when I was at school,

400
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 2: would have been ademountable at the back of the yah,

401
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, and we never would have seen them. But

402
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: now I'm grateful to say that we have more resources.

403
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 2: I think's perfect, but we have resources where Okay, you

404
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 2: know we're going to have a dance party for that

405
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: person over there. You know, WOFY will say oh, such

406
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: and such did this today, and I'll say, oh really,

407
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: what was that? Like, ah, yeah, she just needs a

408
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: little more time to calm down than the rest of us.

409
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 2: Because that's what that's what he's been told by his educators,

410
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 2: not like you know, he's naughty or he can't stop talking.

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00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 2: That's it. It's not framing it in disordered language. It's

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Speaker 2: framing it as like they're just a different you know,

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Speaker 2: they're still cool person, they just need a little more

414
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Speaker 2: time to get around it. Which I'm god damn, I'm

415
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 2: amazing because you mentioned rejection sensitivity, and in my experience

416
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 2: getting handed the ADHD diagnosis was like, oh, of course,

417
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Speaker 2: I think everyone's always upset at me, because everyone was

418
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 2: always upset at me, and so I expect them to

419
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 2: be upset at me. And I hear shit, I hear

420
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 2: tone in a voice it's not there, and then sometimes

421
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: I then create a moment that wasn't there, but now

422
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: is there. Haha, I'm right, And what a fucking trap

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Speaker 2: to be taught him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, horrible and the ruminating, you know, I would, I

425
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: would walk away from interactions with people and lay in

426
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: bed at two am replaying it and just figuring out

427
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: all the ways in which I stuffed it up, could

428
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: have done it better, and then should I send them

429
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: an email to apologize. And it's the constant stock take

430
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Speaker 1: of the way I was, you know, moving through the

431
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: world that just it nearly ended me like and nothing

432
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: was ever good enough. I would never just be able

433
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: to forgive myself the perfectionism, and it's you know, the

434
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: last five years have really cracked me open. And like

435
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: I said, you know, this new book that I have

436
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: coming out, and it's grace to bring it up, but

437
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: Bloodsweat and Glitter it kind of charts the last five years.

438
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: But I've also made it like a guide to like

439
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: the Idiot's Guide to neurodivergence and perimenopause. And I think

440
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: I wrote it to help me stock take the last

441
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: five years, because they really, like I nearly didn't survive

442
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: it was It's been brutal. It's been absolutely brutal. And

443
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: I'm forty six now and I met you when I

444
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: was twenty four, and yeah, all the things we're talking

445
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: about with what's happened to me at school, and then

446
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: you know, going on Idol, and then the breakfast radio stuff,

447
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: and they all came home to roost the last five

448
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: years with the start of the lockdowns, and then you know,

449
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: right up to even now. I've written about breakfast Radio

450
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: in the new book, and that time was one of

451
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: the most brutal times I've had professionally.

452
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: I remember me. I remember going out to Perth to

453
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: do promo for Idol and running into you. I came

454
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: to I think I came to be a guest on

455
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: your show. And I had done radio for a long

456
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: time before Idol, and I have since done Brecky Radio again.

457
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 2: There is something about the mechanical formatic nature of radio

458
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: that I found. Oh this is great. I say this

459
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: at the end of the song. You know, I can

460
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: understand this structure really well. They understand hooks, the teasers,

461
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: the payoffs, the callbacks. I understood all that, all that

462
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 2: really really well. Absolutely unprepared to deal with the amount

463
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 2: of person in the room to create a show like that,

464
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: and I ended up being my own worst enemy. I

465
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: broke my heart that I wasn't as good as I

466
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 2: wanted to be because I couldn't handle I didn't know

467
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: how to deal with everything else in the room. And

468
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: it is, it is as far as you know feedback goes.

469
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: You better start getting used to the most personal and

470
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 2: destructive you know, critique quick because like, hey, that thing

471
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: you did at six past the hour terrible, we saw

472
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,239
Speaker 2: the numbers dip. Never do that again. Whatever you did

473
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: at seven past the out, do that more.

474
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: I got told my laugh was grating.

475
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: Excellent.

476
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: Imagine that, imagining self conscious every time you laugh. No

477
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: breakfast radio, for especially for women, they want you to

478
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: be outspoken and opinionated and heartfelt, and when you're that

479
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: off air, it's very inconvenient. So they want you to

480
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: be one version of you on air, and then when

481
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: you are all those things off they're like, hang on

482
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: a minute, no, no, you're difficult, you're a diva. Oh boy,

483
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: And this is you know, this is. Once I started

484
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: talking to other women who'd worked in breakfast radio, there

485
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: was a pattern, and all of us were made to

486
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: believe that we were the problem, not the male counterparts

487
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: that are on the breakfast radio a merry go around,

488
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: not the men who would constantly gaslight us and say

489
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: inappropriate things to us affair, who didn't really want our opinions,

490
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: who just wanted us to be one way on air,

491
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: and then the nice, quiet girl off air. And then

492
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: when I would sit in front of my straight white

493
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: male bosses who were very passionately telling me how to

494
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: be a relatable woman, I would sit there and just say,

495
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, no, no, and that would be maddening to them,

496
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: but they wanted me to be that woman on air.

497
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: So again being told this message of who you are

498
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: is wrong. Okay here, but it's wrong offair. You're the problem.

499
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: You're the reason we're having a these issues. It's you.

500
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: So I wrote about this. There's this life changing conversation

501
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: I had with a reporter who was starting to do

502
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: a big investigative deep dive into the underbelly of commercial radio.

503
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: And I've not given it away because they're still working

504
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: on it. But when I got a DM from this reporter,

505
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: I panicked.

506
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: Oh.

507
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh God, it's coming back. She's a diva,

508
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: she's impossible, she's an asshole.

509
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: It was a number of years after you left.

510
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: It was last year. So last year I get a

511
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: DM from a reporter about radio and she said but

512
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: I'm doing a deep dive into commercial radio. Your name

513
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: was one that kept coming up, someone I needed to

514
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: talk to, and my brain, you're at divergent rejection sensitivity,

515
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: instantly went to God, it's going to be about the women. Yeah,

516
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: And so I did something I've never done in my life.

517
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: Instead of avoiding it. I called this person straight away.

518
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: I called them and I spent an hour on the

519
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: phone with them, and I cried. And my daughter Marcella

520
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: was walking, she was pacing. She's like, get off the phone,

521
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: get off the phone. But I don't know what happened.

522
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: The floodgates opened and I said everything, And at the

523
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: end of it, she said, I want you to know.

524
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 1: You're the fifth woman I've spoken to who had your

525
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: job and it wasn't you. You were made to feel

526
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: like you were the problem. You were all gas lit,

527
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: you were all treated really badly, you were in unsafe

528
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: work environments. And this story I've heard, you know five

529
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: times now and I cannot tell you. And I get

530
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: terry thinking about it. The shame and the internalized guilt

531
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: and the way I've been made to feel about myself.

532
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I was an angel and I'm

533
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: not saying I didn't behave badly. I fucking did. But

534
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: I was also you know, with Sydney, i'd lost a baby,

535
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: I was undiagnosed ADHD autistic, I was sleep deprived. I

536
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: was in an environment, you know, that was extremely competitive

537
00:28:54,640 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: and terrifying TODAYFM. And when she told me that, it

538
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: changed my life more than any therapy, any medication. And

539
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: I realized how much of breakfast Radio I'd still been holding,

540
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: and how much shame and how I just thought I

541
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: was a shit person because I failed in that environment.

542
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: But I should have been nowhere near that environment.

543
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: USh, Look, there's something about what you just said, which

544
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: is I'm pretty sure one of the reasons you've also

545
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: written this book. And that's the reason I started this podcast.

546
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: Just knowing it's not just you. Knowing that it's not

547
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: just you instantly at least splits the problem in half.

548
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: Because our brains can trick us that it's personal, that

549
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: it's permanent, that it's global. This is only happening to me.

550
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: This is how it's going to be forever, and it

551
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: affects my entire world. The moment you hear if someone

552
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: else go, hang on, wait, what that's like word for word,

553
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: Oh shit, instantly, it's fifty percent powder.

554
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: Well, you've just you've just pointed out the entire point

555
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: of my career. Basically, I was tired of feeling alone.

556
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: Everything I make has that express purpose that you just

557
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: said to have someone maybe you've got their headphones on

558
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: at two am, questioning, or they hold you, maybe they

559
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: hear me say something, and you know there's a bit

560
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: of light shine in the dark. Because I've been in

561
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: the dark. I understand crying in the fetal position and

562
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: two I am. I get it, and I'm trying to

563
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: just help anyone who's feeling that way. Everything I make

564
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: I want people to have fun and I want them

565
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: to feel better. That's it.

566
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: One of the early on in the book, there's a

567
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: quote that stuck out to me. This book is about

568
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: what happens after realizing you've built your entire life according

569
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: to someone else's instructions. That line really hit me because

570
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: as my doctors have handed me each diagnosis, it's almost

571
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: like they're going, oh, hang on, here's a missing page

572
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: from the manual that you didn't get and I read

573
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: it and go, well, this would have been hand I'm

574
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: glad I've got it now because from here it's okay.

575
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: And I don't know about you, but the challenge for

576
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: me is to then not only grief, but I'm very

577
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: careful about angry in my life, but try to not

578
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: have any resentment or negativity around missed opportunities or chaos

579
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 2: that I've caused because I didn't know this earlier, more

580
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: interested to know how you dealt with that.

581
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: One of the chapters is based around, like you know

582
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: this six or five six stages of grieving. Grief has

583
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: been the major emotion state of the past five years,

584
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: just grieving so many different things. When I found out

585
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: about the ADHD, I felt so much grief for ten

586
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: year old M who just kept getting told to try harder,

587
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: but she was bursting out of her skin trying truly.

588
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: And then you know, the autism diagnosis came and I

589
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: was sad for twenty year old M and who went

590
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: into so many situations. Yeah, heart open, and I feel

591
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: like my whole life people have been deliberately misunderstanding me.

592
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: That that's how it felt, that that's what was happening.

593
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: But the emotion in me was everybody is doing their

594
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: very best to misunderstand me, and so perimenopause too, has

595
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: laid me bare lack of estrogen. It all came at once,

596
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: and I think, I think, if I stare too hard

597
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: into the abyss of grief and what could have been,

598
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: I would never have arrived at this destination. So anytime

599
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm going to be swallowed by that,

600
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: what if I just remember, you know, I look at

601
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: my son Elio, who is here under the most bizarre

602
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: set of circumstances that if this hadn't happened, you need

603
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: Steve jobs, you joined the dots with hindsight. I just

604
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: I'm really glad to be where I am right now today,

605
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: And I think if I fucked with any of that,

606
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: you know, the butterfly effect. So I walk side by

607
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: side with the grief, but I don't carry it anymore.

608
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: And that's been the big shift for me. I don't

609
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: have it on my back like a grip, you know,

610
00:32:59,040 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: a grief backpack.

611
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: It does take work, it does take work, but constant work.

612
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: In that work, In that work, it frees you to

613
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: be free from the weight of it totally go and

614
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: do things as well as this, rather than I can't

615
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: do things because of this.

616
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: Two things can be true at once. You know, I

617
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: think the Internet has destroyed that notion that there could

618
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: be multiple truths in a situation.

619
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: A singer can be off key and it can be

620
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: the greatest gig of your life. It can both happen all.

621
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: Right on brand, thank you?

622
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: Not right. I'm just like I've been at gigs where

623
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: the pa is shit and the drummers having an off

624
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: night doesn't matter because the feeling in the room is there.

625
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: It's okay, you can. It's when the pa is off

626
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: and the drummers offing and off night, and it's also

627
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: they're not They're just staring at their shoes, not giving it. Like,

628
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: I'll go home. I don't care. Now I pay for

629
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: my own tickets again because I'm not in the music

630
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: industry anymore, so I buy show tickets. I'll go home now.

631
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: I'm just like, eh, to go it's not worth it.

632
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: You mentioned the so the ADHD diagnosis, that is something

633
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: that comes with two things. In my case, it was

634
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 2: medication and strategy to use while in that medication and

635
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: that can that has significantly changed things for me. But

636
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: with something that you mentioned, an autism diagnosis, there's not

637
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 2: really medication for that, is there so can you explain

638
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: to me and maybe help people understand what does that

639
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: diagnosis give you?

640
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: Well, initially it gave me a lot of internalized abilism

641
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: because I didn't accept I don't meet everybody's kind of

642
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: preconceived notion of an autistic person, you know, because generally

643
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: the way autism has been portrayed in the public eye,

644
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: as Dustin Hoffmann in rain Man, you don't see a

645
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: lot of autistic women, and then when you do, generally

646
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: they're very stereotypical autistic, whereas I'm somebody who doesn't, you know,

647
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: present that way. And initially when I found out I

648
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: was autistic, and I only found out because my son

649
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: was diagnosed autistic and I was in all his sessions,

650
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: which is the way a lot of late diagnosed neardivergent

651
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: parents find out. You're sitting in your kids assessment and

652
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: you start going, let do you mean people don't pre

653
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: plan conversation topics and worry about our contact and you know,

654
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: can't handle the weight, chewing sounds and like have to

655
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: cut all the tags off their clothes, and like, what

656
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: do you mean that's that normal? Because I've grown up

657
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: in a house of freaks. Both my parents are neurodivergent.

658
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: All my kids are. This is normal to us. This

659
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: is a baseline. What do you mean when I was

660
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: supposed to all sit in noise canceling headphones in the

661
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: same room and our different laptops. We're together, but we're

662
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: existing in parallel. We don't interact. What do you mean

663
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: That's not normal? So I sat in on that and

664
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: then started looking into the way female you know, a fab.

665
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: Female autism is different to male presentation a fab.

666
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: Can you explain that what coming to.

667
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: Assigned female at birth? Our non binary pals, so those

668
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: who are assigned female at birth but don't identify as

669
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: female and so non binary basically, And so yeah, I

670
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: initially when I was told I was autistic, my gut

671
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: reaction was, Nah, no, I'm not. I'm not. I don't

672
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: think so. And then you know, I really got into

673
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: it and into in the book. I actually have like

674
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: a symptom list like I have. I wanted people to

675
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: be to be able to read it and check things off,

676
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: because when I started getting into the assessment, there were

677
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: things in there that just sounded like they were describing

678
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: my personality, and I'm like, it's no experience singular Am

679
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: I not a special quirky person? Am I am I

680
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 1: so typical that I'm a diagnostic list? And it was, Yeah,

681
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: it was wild. But I also didn't feel comfortable taking

682
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: up space within the disability community. And you know, that's

683
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: something that I still wrestle with, and I talk a

684
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: lot about the language you use around high functioning and

685
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: low functioning and how that doesn't service anybody in the

686
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: disability community. But I think now you know, I'm a

687
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: few years in on the diagnosis. What it's done is

688
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: reframed everything that I had built shame around everything I

689
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: thought was a failing. It's reframed for me as no,

690
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm not sensitive, I'm not picky, I'm not an asshole,

691
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: I'm not blunt. I'm autistic. And I told my dad, no,

692
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: I'm autistic. He said, no, you're not. You're Italian and

693
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: I said I'm both and so are you. And a

694
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: lot of people around me were like, well, duh, could

695
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: you have told me? But the autism, Yeah, it's been

696
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: a real re education around stuff I built big shame with.

697
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: And I'm also OCD and that's the way I kind

698
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: of manage controlling stuff around me because with autism with

699
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: ADHD autism. I'm AUDHD so both so that they are

700
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: opposing forces. They are light and dark, they are Alphabet

701
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: and Glinda. They hate each other. My ADHD brain craves

702
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 1: chaos and dopamine and novelty, but my autistic brain wants

703
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: to know, you know, what the parking situation is at

704
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: the restaurant and what and what the food is and

705
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: where I'm going to be sitting and how long into

706
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: it can I leave? So they're constantly fighting each other.

707
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: My brain is in a constant tussle. So understanding that

708
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: has been massive as well. But just getting the keys

709
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: to the car has been the biggest thing for me.

710
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: And letting go, Yeah, letting go of caring I think

711
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 1: I shouldn't. I mean, it's hard to say out loud.

712
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time trying to control what

713
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: other people thought of me. I think a lot of

714
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: my performativeness, a lot of the masking was a way

715
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: to try and yet control other people's opinions and wanting

716
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: to And I think letting that go and just showing

717
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: up as myself and just being like, oh, oh fucking yolo.

718
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: Chips will lay where they lay, makeep your mind about

719
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: me has been the greatest gift of learning. I'm you're

720
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: a divergent is letting go of that. I think.

721
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: Just taking a moment away from M to let you

722
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: know that the story Club YouTube channel is now live.

723
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: If you weren't able to make it to the show,

724
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: We've got a full year of shows in the pipeline,

725
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 2: dropping a new story every single week. Every week. We're

726
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: going to put that out. The live shows return in February.

727
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: But if you want to see what story Club's all

728
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: about and dive into some of the most funny, cringingly awesome, honest, dark, tender,

729
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: and beautifully authentic true stories that you are going to

730
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: hear today, you find the link in the show notes.

731
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: That's also where you can get a copy of both

732
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: of my books. So what Now? What the brand new one?

733
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 2: And back after the break, which is exactly where we're

734
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 2: going to be with m Rosciano see in a moment.

735
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 2: One of the things that I found is that with

736
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: as the diagnoses you know, show up, what it has

737
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: helped me do is because I only really started chasing

738
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 2: this stuff when I realized it was really affecting my

739
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 2: personal relationships. Because that's where it tends the fall apartment.

740
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: The most work stuff for the most part is okay,

741
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 2: because there's a lot more control and predictability and structure.

742
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: Even though that's in the chaos of life television, they're

743
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 2: still I know my job, I know my role, I

744
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: know what other people's boundaries are. It's all delineated. A

745
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: TV set is a very structured place to exist, and

746
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: where a self selecting crew. Let me tell you that

747
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: there's a one hundred and ten people are going to show

748
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: like The Bachelor. There's a lot of bouncy ees, a

749
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 2: lot of people who cannot sit at a desk ever,

750
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 2: all right, the greatest cameraman sound ups right, they've never

751
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: had an office job. Not good indoors. Okay, So we're

752
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 2: a self selecting industry, and so are people who work

753
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: in the accountanty and and engineering and such a right.

754
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: Stereotypes exist for a reason. But you mentioned earlier you

755
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: know I can be two direct or I can be

756
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: blunt that, particularly when you became aware of the ASD diagnoses,

757
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: did that give you space to go normally? I would

758
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: say this to this person, I'm aware that sometimes that

759
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 2: can be a bit ship. Now, this is not a

760
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: masking thing. This is like adapting behavior to to not

761
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 2: cause chaos in a moment, to at least kind of

762
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: maybe soften speech or kind of change the way you

763
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 2: communicate with people so I can the outcomes a little more.

764
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: Me is a form of masking right to me, Like

765
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: you saying that really like challenged me, because I feel

766
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: like I was doing that my whole life. Like if

767
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: people thought I was blunt Jesus Christ, they should have

768
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: heard the stuff I was holding back.

769
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then then there's there's things that serve your

770
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: the things that don't serve you.

771
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: You know I did was smart enough, I guess to

772
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: figure that shit out. But no, now I'm more I'm

773
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: good at saying when somebody asks my opinion, I now

774
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: say do you want my opinion or do you want support?

775
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: And then I kind of preface it with that. But

776
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 1: also I've surrounded myself now with other neurodivergent people. Only

777
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: the strong survive. There aren't any neurotypicals really left in

778
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: my life, in my environment. I think I'm a good

779
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: I know I'm a good person now, Like I've worked

780
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: so hard and I know that I'm always coming from

781
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: a place of fucking big love and big feelings and

782
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: I'm really I always keep walking back to that, you know,

783
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: the center of the squash court. Who I am in

784
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: the middle, And I know I'm a big, loving, loyal

785
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: human that only really does mean the best, and sometimes

786
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: I do fuck that up. But I can sleep at

787
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: night now because I know who I am at my core.

788
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you know. Also, I'm just I've

789
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: mellowed with age. I don't need to have and the

790
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: more I know, the less I know. And I'm okay

791
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: with that. I used to be somebody that used to

792
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: have you know, you have to have a strong opinion

793
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: either way, and now I'm like more, let me hear

794
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: both sides, and I'm interested. I'm way more curious than

795
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: I used to be. I ask more questions. Yeah, I'm

796
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: so comfortable in not having an opinion but talking it

797
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: all right of the edge with people who disagree with me.

798
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just I really enjoy now not living

799
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: in extremes where I did used to live in that,

800
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, and in breakfast radio, you have to have

801
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: an opinion, you have to have a you know, you

802
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: have to be and hopefully it's opposing to the man.

803
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: You say, Oh man, look those extremes are very stimulating places,

804
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, like when I'm in those places,

805
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: whether they be ones that I have found as a

806
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: workplace or ones that I have accidentally on purpose manufactured

807
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 2: not realized it. Ah, everything's falling apart, But it's good

808
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: because now there's no room in were for all the

809
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: bad stuff. Yes, there was another line. It's later in

810
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: the book, but fuck me, there's there's there's got me

811
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 2: like a fricking crossbow. I felt ripped off like someone

812
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: had handed me a game to play but never told

813
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: me the rules and then acted shocked when I kept losing.

814
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know it just that really, it

815
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: really sucks that, And really I think it really demonstrates

816
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: how for people who might be you're just being difficult

817
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: or why are you always confused? Or why do you

818
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 2: how can you not get this disorganized?

819
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: Why answered this emails?

820
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 2: Can't you just get stuff on time? Why you always?

821
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: I watched the AHD leave my body when someone says

822
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: just do it sure.

823
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: Like I'm trying. I'm exhausting myself, trying, I'm sprinting, trying

824
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: to try. I just can't find this doing well.

825
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 1: No control center. I got one of those guys at

826
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: the front of car City the wind socks running my

827
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: command center. Fuck like truly. But if you want me

828
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: to write a whole one hour long conceptual show with

829
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: lighting cues and original music and staging and costuming, I'll

830
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: fucking do it. But don't ask me to go through

831
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: my bank statement and figure out what the business expenses

832
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: are because it won't happen. Like. I've got my strengths

833
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: and they're really fucking strong. But because I was good

834
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: at the hard stuff and bad at the easy stuff,

835
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: I have no compass around achievement. Nothing I do is

836
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: impressive to me because at school I couldn't remember my

837
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: fucking homework. But you know, never mind, you know I'm

838
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 1: achieving all these amazing things that normies would find incredible.

839
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 1: To me, they're nothing because I couldn't do my fucking

840
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 1: homework when I was five. So it's I'm still trying

841
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: to recalibrate my achievement kind of compass. I'm terrible at

842
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: saying well done, m I'm terrible at stopping down and

843
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 1: acknowledging the winds. I'm always looking to the next thing,

844
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: the next thing, the next thing, And this is what

845
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: I'm practicing with you know, with bloodspwead and glitter at

846
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: the book, with all the podcasts I work on. You know,

847
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm and I tell the people around me, they know

848
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: to make sure that I stop and acknowledge it. If

849
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: it's a dinner, if it's buying myself a pair of shoes,

850
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: if it's like anything, just being in that moment. Otherwise,

851
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: what's the fucking point? Why am I doing it for?

852
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: To what end? To what end?

853
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 2: To what end?

854
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: It's part of it's also being like an eldest daughter

855
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 1: type a personality daughter of an immigrant. Like there's lots

856
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: of other things raised by boomers. There's lots of other

857
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 1: things in there.

858
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 2: You mentioned though, that you have you surround yourself with

859
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: unidivergent people by occasionally you are going to need someone

860
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: who knows what's going on. There's a person in my

861
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: life who without which the last ten years and you

862
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: know that that girl has been played by a few

863
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: other people, but currently it's excellently being played by an

864
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 2: incredible woman called Cassidy. She and I work together on

865
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 2: the last worked on a season of Master together. She's

866
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 2: my executive function assistant and she's amazing. Yeah, without her

867
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 2: like I know the bits of my brain cannot do

868
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 2: I just go. You do that totally because I just

869
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: fucked that up. And since that person has been in

870
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: my life, things are way better. I can afford to

871
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: have that person in my life if I'm very lucky.

872
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: It's a business expense for me. And I'm wondering if

873
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: you have found similar things of like getting the bits

874
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 2: of your brain that don't work properly give them to

875
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: other people that you trust. It's like, can you do

876
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: this for me?

877
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 1: I'm not great at it. Delegating my shock peobody, bit

878
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: of a control thing. I have several many No I do.

879
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 1: My eldest daughter is incredible. I have Ben Wosley, who's

880
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: been with me since forever in a day, like everybody

881
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: that's around me has been around a long time. I

882
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: have one straight white guy who runs all the tech Zeke.

883
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: He's amazing. So I do, yes, I do have people

884
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: around me that are highly organized. I'm good at filling

885
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: the gaps the things that I'm not good like, and

886
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: I love spotting people who can do it and just

887
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 1: going and empowering them to be Like Go and our studio,

888
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, we start at ten thirty eleven every days.

889
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: I've kind of created this work environment that I always wanted,

890
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: I think. But yeah, and also just dropping your fucking standards.

891
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: That's been another big thing. I've been holding myself to

892
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: neurotypical standards like this, got to achieve this by then,

893
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: And if you haven't done this as a mother, you've failed.

894
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 1: Or if your kids aren't sitting at the dinner table

895
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: eating dinner with you every night, talking about their day,

896
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: then you're a bad family. And like, we all hate

897
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: sitting at the dinner table at the end of the day.

898
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: And I forced my kids to sit the dinner table

899
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: for so many fucking years, and then finally I just

900
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: said to them, I really hate sitting and they're like, yeah,

901
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: we do too. So we all just sit and eat

902
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: whenever we want, sometimes together, sometimes not. But I think

903
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: it was an overhaul of the standards I was holding

904
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: myself to, you know, and just realizing they don't serve

905
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: me and they're not actually relevant to me. So that's

906
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: been the biggest change in adapting and making my life

907
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: easier as and you're a divergent person, and buying lots

908
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: of baskets for my doom piles. Yeah, got lots of

909
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: basket doom piles. Yeah, doom piles.

910
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: Tell me what a doom pile is. Really, you don't know,

911
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: I what I'm doing. Come on radio, I'm doing radio stuff.

912
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: Doom piles are a neurodeverag in person tricks themselves into

913
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: thinking they're putting something away by just kind of organizing

914
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: it into these little piles, like like a drunk raccoon,

915
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: like just gathering things in. And sometimes you theme the

916
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: doom piles to really feel like you're on top of

917
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: your life. Like there would be a pile of clothes

918
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: that are clean and need to be put away. Then

919
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: there's a pile of clothes that are too clean to

920
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: put in the wash but too dirty to hang up.

921
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: Then there's just your dirty pile. Then there'll be a

922
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: pile of like paperwork that I'm definitely never going to

923
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: get to you, but I'm going to make that pile.

924
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: And then they'll be like shoes you've got to put away,

925
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: And then they'll be like the fourteen bags you've packed.

926
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: Then they'll be like four lunch boxes that you haven't

927
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: unpacked from last week, put them in a pile, and

928
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, your life is just these

929
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: just trash heaps, and you're offc of the crouch. So

930
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: then I bought myself baskets and at least the baskets

931
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: make me feel like, you know, it's not directly on

932
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: the floor. I also now have I bought myself a

933
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: rack that and has empty coat hangers on it. And

934
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: in my rule is if it will it take more

935
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: than two minutes, no, then put it away. Don't put

936
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: it down. Put it away, don't put it down, put

937
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: it away. And you know, there's little things that I'm

938
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: getting better at because as a chronically neat messy person,

939
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: it's like it's very hard. Like I am a very

940
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: I need neatness. I need everything to look like it's

941
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: a display home, but I'm messy. So it's just like

942
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: it's a constant battle.

943
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 2: The two minute reial really changed my life. If I

944
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: can complete it so the point that it's not taking up,

945
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: if it's not a spinning beach ball in my head,

946
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 2: if I can get it done to the point where

947
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: I go, that's done within two minutes, I stop what

948
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: I'm doing and do it now. The problem happens is

949
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 2: when that cascades and then I'm like seventeen two minute

950
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 2: things in and I'm still got a half written email

951
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 2: over here.

952
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: I know, but sometimes you've got to be like good

953
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: enough to be dangerous. It doesn't have to be.

954
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: So with the baskets. Does that chunk the task then?

955
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 2: So you're like, I'll do one basket now, yes, So.

956
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: Then I'll be like I used to do the thing

957
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: where I'd pile everything on my bed and I wasn't

958
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: allowed to get into bed until but I just get

959
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: in underships exactly like a garbage person. I have slept.

960
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 2: Come on, you tell you're not fooling anybody with that one.

961
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: Mate, But no, now I'm just like, I just pick

962
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,959
Speaker 1: a basket and I do it, and yeah, it's it's

963
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 1: not It's all messy and I'm doing my fucking bess

964
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: and I'm fighting for my life every day. But you know,

965
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm getting there. I'm better than I was yesterday.

966
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: You know, so fuck like on brand and I like it.

967
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: You write about this in the book and if you

968
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: don't want to talk about it today, I'm okay if

969
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: you don't talk about it today. But sometimes it's very

970
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: trying to maintain a relationship in you know, trying to

971
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: maintain a relationship is hard for anything. You don't accidentally

972
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: have a six pack, you don't accidentally have good mental health,

973
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 2: you don't accidentally have a great marriage. It takes effort.

974
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 2: But sometimes the kind of things that we've been discussing

975
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: in this conversation, I'm sure there was humongous effort on

976
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 2: everybody's front. I'm wondering was it your experience, And I'm

977
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: wondrying if this is true for you that sometimes it

978
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 2: can feel like you're both sprinting towards each other, but

979
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: you end up looking like an episode to run it

980
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: where they just there's two guys just bash into each

981
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 2: other because you're trying so hard to connect. And I'm

982
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: wondering if that was your experience or you know how

983
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: that was for you.

984
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: For me, I'm not the person my husband married twenty

985
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: five years ago. You know, I was a kid, and

986
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 1: especially with the perimenopause stuff, I yeah, I no longer

987
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: wish to play the role I was cast in in

988
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,479
Speaker 1: the early two thousands. It's not who I am, it's

989
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: not how I want to show up. I think I

990
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: betrayed myself in a lot of ways. And when people

991
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 1: change so fundamentally, within a relationship. You know, Scott and

992
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: I have been together a long time. We've split up

993
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: a couple of times. He was my third boyfriend, and

994
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: you know, now in this phase of life, I don't

995
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: know what the future holds for us. I don't know

996
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: if we're going to be together. I don't know at

997
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: the moment. You know, we're very much figuring out our

998
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: own shit, and I think that's something that needs to

999
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 1: be talked about. And I guess more accepted that marriages

1000
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: don't have to end, but sometimes pause needs to be

1001
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: hit so everyone can work on their own shit, and

1002
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: especially for me, I was, you know, I'm unable to

1003
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: I got to figure out. I'm just I'm really figuring

1004
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: out who this who I am at forty six, which

1005
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: sounds ridiculous, but I feel this great sense of liberation

1006
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: and like the veilors dropped and I'm allowed to say

1007
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: what I want and I'm allowed to put boundaries in

1008
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: and I think I felt scared of doing that for

1009
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: a long time. And the person I was no longer

1010
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: serves me. And I'm now turning around and trying to

1011
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: walk back to a better, healthier version of me and

1012
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: the person I was showing up as was great for

1013
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: everyone else around me, Like she was fucking on it

1014
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: and there was great Christmases and presents and birthdays were

1015
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 1: organized and the house was amazing and everything was done

1016
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: and incredible, but she was a shell and not doing

1017
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: anything that she liked. And what happens to women, especially

1018
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: when you reach your mid forties, you look around and

1019
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: you're like, what the fuck is in this for me?

1020
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: So I'm in that phase of figuring it out. I

1021
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: don't know what the future holds for my marriage. I

1022
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: know that we will always be a family. We've got

1023
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: three incredible kids. We've always been unconventional. But I guess

1024
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: I want to encourage anybody who's listening. If you're having

1025
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: big growing pains within your relationship, it's okay to say

1026
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: to the other person, I need time. You don't have

1027
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: to go to the doors court. You can just take time,

1028
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: and if the relationship ends, it's not a failing. I

1029
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: don't think twenty five years together is a failing. It's,

1030
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, maybe an evolution or a change, but will

1031
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: always be in each other's lives. But I can't tell

1032
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: you what's going to happen with Scott and I and

1033
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, I wrote about this in the book, and

1034
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm I don't want it to be the focus of

1035
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: articles or interviews and people get obsessed with the status

1036
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: of relationships. The status of my relationship is in construction,

1037
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: I guess.

1038
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: And it's I think it's important to talk about. You know,

1039
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 2: you mentioned you met when you were young. You had kids,

1040
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: relatively relatively young. I mean, Audrey was twenty three when

1041
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 2: she had g and that was unconventional. How would you

1042
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 2: when you had.

1043
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,399
Speaker 1: I was twenty two when I had Schella. Yeah, so yeah,

1044
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 1: and it was young.

1045
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're already together, but who you are before you

1046
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 2: there's a relationship you have before you you know, commit

1047
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 2: to each other and it's pants ahoy, and it's amazing.

1048
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: And you you know, you're on Daydream Island, having a

1049
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 2: weekend away and you know, it's just routine all day.

1050
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 2: At night, it's amazing. And then when a child shows up, well,

1051
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 2: of cause it company that because now we're here, all right,

1052
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 2: And then someone's got to go back to work. And

1053
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 2: then now I've got a hold a lot of this,

1054
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 2: what you do a lot of that. We've got half

1055
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 2: the income, but you know, double the bills, fack and

1056
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 2: then things kind of may be stabilize that another kid.

1057
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 2: Come now you're you're in the fifth version of your

1058
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 2: relationship within four years, right, So relationships do change, they

1059
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 2: have to change, they have to adapt. We're not the

1060
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 2: same people we were a year ago. And sometimes, as

1061
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 2: you mentioned, it's okay to say goodbye to parts of

1062
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: relationships and the way the relationships structure was, it's okay

1063
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 2: to say goodbye to that when you phases arise, and

1064
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 2: as you it's also okay sometimes to go, okay, this

1065
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 2: relationship between these two people that's over. It's not to

1066
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 2: say that where over, but the way this relationship is

1067
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 2: structured is over. We're just going to need time to

1068
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 2: figure out when it starts again, if it starts again,

1069
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 2: what it looks like. And that's a kind of because

1070
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 2: as you mentioned before, two things can be true. You

1071
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 2: can love someone so much and not want to be

1072
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 2: around them for a little while while you figure stuff out,

1073
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 2: so that however it looks when you come together is

1074
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 2: better for everybody, that's all.

1075
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: And that's what we need to work towards, is coming

1076
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: together in a healthier way. Because it was not healthy

1077
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: for me, it suited him It suited my kids, it

1078
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: suited my parents, it suited the people that work for me.

1079
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: But I was broken down and very unhappy. And I'm

1080
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: now rebuilding that. And it's inconvenient that people around you,

1081
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: when they benefit from you running yourself into the ground,

1082
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: built that standard. They've leaned into it because you've allowed

1083
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: them to. It's not their faults. It's what I did,

1084
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: it's who I presented, it's what I made. I put

1085
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: up the house of carts I chose. Nobody expected me,

1086
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: no one asked me to do all the things I

1087
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: was doing. But I constantly felt like I had to

1088
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: prove myself to be worthy of love and affection. So

1089
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: I just kept overachieving and overproducing until I physically could

1090
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: not do it anymore. Like my body just went nut,

1091
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: my brain snapped nut. And retraining and readjusting is like

1092
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: growing pains. It's hard. And I've lost friendships this year

1093
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: that I've had for decades because I could no longer

1094
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: show up as that friend. Like I realized I had

1095
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: really one side of friendships where they didn't know much

1096
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: about my life by design because I didn't want to

1097
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: talk about how shitty I was feeling. But I was

1098
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: the fixer of their life, and I was on the

1099
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: other of the front calls and I was like the

1100
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: loyal friend and knew everything about their life. And I

1101
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: dropped those friendships and that it was painful, but I

1102
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: had to. So I think, I think every woman feels

1103
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: this way and goes through this and sometimes, you know,

1104
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: we drink it away. I certainly did for a period

1105
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: of time. I'm not drinking anymore. You know, we shop

1106
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: it away, we gamble it away, we do we do

1107
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: all the things to try and not feel it. But

1108
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: I just decided to turn and face it. And it's

1109
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: been really hard, like it's still really hard, but I

1110
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: think just this honesty, like I feel brave when I

1111
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: face it, like because I can. I can name it,

1112
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: I can see it, I can make friends with it.

1113
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: I can try and understand it rather than trying to

1114
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: run from it and fix it in unhealthy ways. It's

1115
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: just like I've just been cracked open and I know

1116
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 1: that I'm strong enough to rebuild, and I have and

1117
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,439
Speaker 1: I am. But it doesn't take away more than one

1118
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: thing true at once of how hard it's been. A

1119
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: psyche of scorched death. But that's where the most beautiful

1120
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: things grow from so and I'm not getting it right

1121
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: and most days, but I'm very interested in getting well

1122
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: and I'm really curious about, you know, being better and

1123
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: being the best version of myself. However that is, whatever that.

1124
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: Is, even that mindset and itself is, that's immediately relief

1125
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: because the next choice is an action step towards something

1126
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 2: that you value, which is where that's where the relief comes. Yeah,

1127
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: if we resist the pain and resist that it do,

1128
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 2: it just gets bigger and more destructed.

1129
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: My full time job was avoiding pain.

1130
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: Oh man, you know you never made You can't out

1131
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: run it. I don't care. I just write a whole

1132
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 2: book about it. You can't run, you.

1133
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: Can you try, and you believe that you're the one

1134
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: who's going to do it. I'm going to be the

1135
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: whe like it's never going to get me, you know

1136
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: it will.

1137
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 2: You've obviously there's parts of elements of who you are,

1138
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 2: the advocacy for yourself that has allowed you to perhaps

1139
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 2: make breakthroughs that others might not be able to. What

1140
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 2: would you say about advocating for yourself and being curious

1141
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 2: and taking responsibilities you've just mentioned. I think that was

1142
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,439
Speaker 2: really powerful. I don't want people to lose The way

1143
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 2: that people were treating you was a way that you

1144
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 2: had set up, and that you took responsibility for that.

1145
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 2: I think that's a very important thing to understand, because

1146
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 2: then once we take responsibility for things, we can go cool.

1147
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 2: Now I'm the one that gets to change it. I

1148
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 2: don't have to wait for somebody else. I'm in control this,

1149
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 2: this is cool. Tird hurts, it sucks, but then you go,

1150
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: it's all right, I can make it new. What would

1151
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: you say to people who may have been resonating with

1152
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 2: the stuff you've been talking about, that might feel they're

1153
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 2: not getting anywhere when it comes to finding answers. You know,

1154
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 2: you went and you famously gave an extraordinary keynote about

1155
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: the challenges of trying to find some sort of diagnoses

1156
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 2: or some sort of support with the current state of

1157
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 2: our healthcare system, which is great but not perfect for everybody.

1158
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 2: What would you say to people who might find themselves

1159
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: a bit up against it.

1160
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: I think you know a few things. I mean, you've

1161
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: been there, the realization that you are worth advocating for,

1162
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: Like once I realized I was worthy of the kind

1163
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: of love I give other people that unlocked something in

1164
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: me like this ferocious curiosity. And I think every time

1165
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: I would hit locked door, I would just you know,

1166
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: my brain is designed to pivot. My brain is literally

1167
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: in the zombie apocalypse. You want to hyperactive, ady hd

1168
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: A your fingertips, like I will think side. I'm really

1169
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: good at problem solving. I'm terrible at like lining up

1170
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: at a bank. But if you drop me in the

1171
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: middle of a war zone and you tell me you've

1172
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: got four bucks and some matches and some raw meat,

1173
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: oh fucking let's start civilization, I'm in. So I think,

1174
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: if you're hitting a wall for yourself, you've just got

1175
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: to go again and again. But I go sideways, like

1176
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: I try different avenues and different And I think, also,

1177
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: self diagnosis is so valid and so legitimate, and if

1178
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: you think that something applies to you, there's a very

1179
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: good chance it does. Now. Obviously, getting a diagnosis for

1180
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: a lot of mental health things is important because it

1181
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: gives you access to perhaps medication or perhaps the NDIS.

1182
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: But step one. I certainly self diagnosed with autism before

1183
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: I got the official seal of approval, and once I

1184
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: self identified, I then started making changes in my life.

1185
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: I almost gave myself mission to do that. So advocating

1186
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: for yourself is just tiny little things, tiny little winds

1187
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: each day that you just make tiny little changes. And

1188
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: like you said, focusing on the things you control. It's like,

1189
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: do I need to stop drinking? Is my relationship with

1190
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: alcohol not great? You can control that. Do I need

1191
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: to start moving my body more to get out of

1192
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: your head? Get into your body? Greatest advice I've ever

1193
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: been given, you know, do I these little things that

1194
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: you can take control back when you're hitting walls, that

1195
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: you're not waiting for someone else to give you permission

1196
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: to get better. And I think once you realize that

1197
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: you don't need other people's permission, and that changed my

1198
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: life for everything from my business to my mental health

1199
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: to my physical health. Yeah, you don't need other people

1200
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: to say go, you can just you can just do it.

1201
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 2: I got really lucky, just mean, when you talk about that,

1202
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 2: I got really like that. Both my parents were doctors,

1203
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 2: and so I just saw the way that these two people,

1204
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 2: professionals who live their whole lives in the medical system.

1205
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 2: I saw the phone calls they'd made and the hustles

1206
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 2: they pulled to make sure that one GP spoke to

1207
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 2: one specialist to you line up one scan. So I

1208
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 2: just knew that was the way you had to do it. Yeah, right, people.

1209
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 2: You know, when I wrote the first book, people say

1210
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 2: I've been waiting six months for a thing. I'm like,

1211
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 2: fuck that, go somewhere else. I would like. I walked

1212
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 2: into practices, going, here's a letter from the other guy.

1213
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 2: There you go. When can I see them?

1214
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: Especially women are do you know what? Women are getting

1215
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: turned away from medical misogyny? Like, you can go to

1216
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: another GP and people always look at me like, oh shit,

1217
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: you're right. They have to impress you. You can audition

1218
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: fifteen gps in a week if you want to. There's

1219
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: no rule, there's no limit. If you're going to a

1220
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: GP and you're saying this, this and this, I think

1221
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm perimenopausal, or I think I might need in your divergence,

1222
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, exam, and they're like nah, yeah, fucking next.

1223
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1224
01:05:55,240 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: Like empowering women, especially to go somewhere else, Yeah, yeah.

1225
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 2: Man, Eventually the rubbit does meet the road. I think

1226
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 2: about four separate orthopedic surgeons took a look at my

1227
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 2: scan and went, yeah, your hips fucked. You need a

1228
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 2: hit replacement Before I started to believe because I just

1229
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 2: kept going going none, I'll just got to find another

1230
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 2: guy I know better. Yeah, I know, I'm fine, Like no, no, no,

1231
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to stop running. You should have come

1232
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 2: to see me ten years ago. You're going to need

1233
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 2: a new one, Like fuck, what do you know? I

1234
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 2: did that like four times until eventually I went, yeah,

1235
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 2: maybe maybe maybe you guys might be right now.

1236
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: Your experience as a attractive, straight white male is going

1237
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: to be different because we know, as women, generally, to

1238
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: get us to the doctor, we've got a pretty good

1239
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: idea what's wrong with us and how we need the help.

1240
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: But if we come up against a dude who isn't,

1241
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 1: say menopause informed, who looks at us at forty and says, Nay,

1242
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: you couldn't be menopausal, you're too young, that's you know,

1243
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: that's the hard part of them batting up again to

1244
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: go see someone else when it's taken so much for

1245
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: us to get there, because women are still treat it

1246
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: as a tiny little men in the medical industry. So yeah,

1247
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: I think I think it's different when dudes show up

1248
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 1: to the doctor, I think they're believed. I think women

1249
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: almost have to come in like it's a court deposition,

1250
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: so that we're not you know, treated as that we're

1251
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: being hysterical or anxious, or it's a mental health thing

1252
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: or you just need you know, take some many depressants

1253
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: or your iron's low. I think there's this whole notion

1254
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: that you know, women are worry is and if they're

1255
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: coming to the doctor then there's probably for no reason.

1256
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 2: But women's problems.

1257
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 1: Women's problems.

1258
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, a good lie down.

1259
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: Oh Beck's othing my mom's eighties BECs my god.

1260
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1261
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: I think if anything, I just want to empower those

1262
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 1: people to advocate for themselves, because it's the avocate, the

1263
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: advocating I do. I do it for my kids, I

1264
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 1: do it for you know, people like you and I.

1265
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: To walk through the world, it'd be easier. So, but

1266
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: it starts with yourself and advocating for yourself, especially for women.

1267
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: It's not something society encourages.

1268
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 2: So you mentioned audition and love. I would I would

1269
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 2: say date that, Yeah, auditions are probably because I would

1270
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 2: also say that about psychologists. People go, oh, yeah, I

1271
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 2: went to a psychologists and yeah, I didn't like it

1272
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 2: was like, you don't have to stick to the one,

1273
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, you can go to different I can't count

1274
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 2: how many different ones I've been to, but I will.

1275
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 2: I'll make a phone call first. If they want me

1276
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 2: to pay for that time, I will because it means

1277
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 2: I save a lot of time. Later we'll spend like

1278
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 2: ten fifteen minutes on the phone and go, oh yeah,

1279
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 2: you know, we kind of I kind of dig you

1280
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 2: eat your vibe, and then I'll go meet them for

1281
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 2: the first you know, one or two times, I'm like,

1282
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 2: you know what, n nah, this ain't going to do it.

1283
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: I wish there was a yelp. I think about that

1284
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: all the time.

1285
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 2: Ah yeah, But then then then you kind of run

1286
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 2: the risk of like this doctor told me I should

1287
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,600
Speaker 2: stop drinking and I'm not an alcoholic. Fuck what do

1288
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 2: they know? And then they get in one star like.

1289
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: Wow, oh but I mean that's gonna be said for anything,

1290
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 1: because it's so hard. It's it's pot luck picking a

1291
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: mental health professional.

1292
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 2: You just don't know. Yeah, I would the vibe. I would.

1293
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 2: I would generally I just ask people. I asked people,

1294
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 2: who do you know that's good? Or I will say

1295
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 2: who would you recommend? But again, this is advocacy, This

1296
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 2: is you taking the lead and.

1297
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 1: Often we wait too long and we're too exhausted, and

1298
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: it seems insurmountable.

1299
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 2: You mentioned the exhaustion and the burnout.

1300
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: Yes, I wore that as a badge of honor. That

1301
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: meant I was successful. When people would say how are you,

1302
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: I'd be hot, busy. It's not what they asked, and

1303
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 1: it's not what they asked. That was my answer.

1304
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 2: Now that you have more pages of the instruction manual,

1305
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 2: who knows how many more are to come? Now you

1306
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 2: have more pages of the instruction manual. As we've talked

1307
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 2: about it, it takes work. Does this work leave you exhausted?

1308
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:44,879
Speaker 2: Does this work leave you rewarded?

1309
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: A bit of a bit of b I now no

1310
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: longer see rest as a weakness. I used to think

1311
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: sitting still equaled lazy. So that's been a big win.

1312
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: Scheduling like today's a huge day for me. I'm doing

1313
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: multiple recordings and pickups and things, so tomorrow I'm taking

1314
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: at home. So I'm really good at scheduling in like

1315
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: the kind of refeeling days. It's been a huge period

1316
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: of work for me this year. Have I buried myself

1317
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: in work to cover up from the esteeming shit pile

1318
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 1: my personal life has become Yes, But yeah, I think

1319
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 1: scheduling in rest for me, I find my work incredibly rewarding.

1320
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 1: But the flip side is that I am the product,

1321
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: so that's also extremely exhausting. Mining your trauma for financial

1322
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: reward and you know all the other things that come

1323
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 1: with that is you know, it's no joke. So I

1324
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: think it's equal parts rewarding and exhausting. And if I

1325
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: can just keep that push pull and just find the

1326
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 1: middle of those two that I'm in the sweet spot

1327
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: for me. So I think making sure it's not too

1328
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 1: one way or the other is my job. But I'm

1329
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 1: looking forward to some projects so where that I am

1330
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: not the I'm writing a musical at the moment, I'm

1331
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: working on some kids books. So yeah, I think working

1332
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 1: on stuff that I'm not the central product is probably

1333
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:17,919
Speaker 1: the way forward for me eventually.

1334
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: And so what does tomorrow look like? Now? So today

1335
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 2: is a big, big, big day for you, big a

1336
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:28,719
Speaker 2: workday that does involve mining the emotional seem to get

1337
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 2: an authentic thing, which is what you know who you are.

1338
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 2: You can't not do it, but you now know there

1339
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 2: needs to be a repair after that. What does repair

1340
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 2: look like? For you.

1341
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: So I'll get up and I'll go to the gym

1342
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 1: and then I'll come home and I'll have a really

1343
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 1: hot shower or a magnesium bath, and then I will

1344
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 1: watch probably four episodes of Parks and rec I'll eat

1345
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: some protein, then i'll take the dogs for a walk.

1346
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: Then I'll kind of check over my emails. Then I'll

1347
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: do some stretching. Then i'll have an another snack. I'll

1348
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 1: also have dropped my six year old off at school

1349
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: and done some kick to kick with him, and then

1350
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: it'll be time to pick him up from school, and

1351
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 1: then we do more kick to kick and then we

1352
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 1: get home and we play Mario Kart on his new

1353
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: switch to because he's just got it, and that's all

1354
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 1: we're doing because I love gaming. We have fucking love gaming.

1355
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 1: So we'll play that for a bit and then we'll

1356
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: do his homework and then we'll cook dinner, and then

1357
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: the girls and I'll sit down and watch the shit

1358
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,759
Speaker 1: show they're making me watch called The Summer I turn pretty,

1359
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 1: and then I'll try and be in bed by ten,

1360
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 1: but let's be honest, I'll doom scrolls all about midnight

1361
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 1: on TikTok.

1362
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 2: That sounds nearly excellent. This sounds like nearly the perfect day,

1363
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 2: but there's there's much Yeah, eleven, get to eleven forty five.

1364
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 2: I am so happy so that we finally got a

1365
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 2: chance to do this, and now was the perfect time

1366
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 2: for us to do this. And thank you for being Dolly.

1367
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 2: And I do remember when you were Dolly. The other

1368
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 2: thing really to think about Dolly, because Tim Chapple, who's amazing,

1369
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 2: makes some costumes. Sometimes you see their hands and if

1370
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 2: i'd known somebody, what was this is another wild thing altogether.

1371
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 2: If they had a glove and I had known them

1372
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 2: and they touched me, my brain instantly knew who they were,

1373
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 2: even though I couldn't see anything of them, like Denny

1374
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:23,600
Speaker 2: Milsey Wendell, Like oh, like my brain recognized, we recognized

1375
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 2: something about them. I'll tell you about this. But because Dolly,

1376
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 2: I didn't know who it was. But I remember you

1377
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 2: had these little chopsticks that you would operate her hands with,

1378
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,759
Speaker 2: and I was like, inside, there is someone really filthy

1379
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 2: is in there, like fucking filthy and I love it.

1380
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 2: And Dolly went like this nodding. I was like, fucking,

1381
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 2: I don't know how you managed to do it, but

1382
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 2: a lot of personality. It was amazing and I'm so

1383
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 2: grateful you said yes to it. There's a lot more

1384
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 2: to this story, M, but I'm glad you and I

1385
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 2: spoke today. Thank you for writing this book. You're a

1386
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 2: gem of a human.

1387
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 1: Thanks, Sonny. That means a lot coming from you. Thank you.

1388
01:13:58,120 --> 01:13:59,400
Speaker 2: I'm grateful you're still in my life.

1389
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 1: Oh I always here if you need you know that.

1390
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,799
Speaker 2: That was m Rosciano. Her biography is called Blood, Sweat

1391
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 2: and Glitter. I really enjoyed that conversation. It's really something

1392
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 2: when you talk to someone who's a trained broadcaster and

1393
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 2: using those skills to describe life as a neurodivergent person.

1394
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 2: It was very useful. I thought she was great. I

1395
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 2: related to a lot of it. If you did too,

1396
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 2: Perhaps there's some questions to ask, some steps to take,

1397
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 2: because if life feels harder to you, then you think

1398
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 2: it could be well. Thankfully, there's a lot of help

1399
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 2: out there, and that helped can look like anything from

1400
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 2: a few small changes to maybe a sprinkling a medication,

1401
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 2: to maybe an entire different approach of how you go

1402
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 2: through your life. Anywhere along that spectrum part intended. There

1403
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 2: is a pathway to things being easier. Big thanks to

1404
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 2: Adam Buncher for producing today's episode. Jump in the show

1405
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 2: notes to get the link to the YouTube for story Club.

1406
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 2: And also that's where you can get the new books.

1407
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 2: So what now what Thanks being a part of it.

1408
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 2: I'll see you back here Monday.