WEBVTT - Part 1: How the Epstein conspiracy turned MAGA against Trump

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<v Speaker 1>This is the sound of a red Maga hat going

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<v Speaker 1>up in flames. As Donald Trump tries to hose down

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<v Speaker 1>criticisms of his mishandling of the Epstein files, some of

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<v Speaker 1>his most ardent supporters are now turning against him. Naga

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<v Speaker 1>hats are off America. First hats are on Burn B B.

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<v Speaker 2>Burn.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi. I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>For years, Donald Trump fueled the conspiracy theories related to

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<v Speaker 1>the notorious sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, promising that if he

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<v Speaker 1>was re elected, he would uncover the truth about the

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<v Speaker 1>powerful people connected with him. Now he's saying there is

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<v Speaker 1>no list, It's a hoax cooked up by the Democrats,

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<v Speaker 1>and any supporters who believe there's more to see are

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<v Speaker 1>weak linked Today Tech Empower reporter for The Guardian, Nick

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<v Speaker 1>Robins early on how the Epstein backlashes opated mega what

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<v Speaker 1>it means for Trump's group on power. This is part

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<v Speaker 1>one of a two party interview. It's Monday, July twenty one, Nick,

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us. Donald Trump cultivated the Epstein conspiracy

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<v Speaker 1>throughout his campaign to decount president. Can you lay out

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<v Speaker 1>how he talked about it and what it meant to

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<v Speaker 1>his supporters. Definitely.

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<v Speaker 3>It meant a lot to his supporters, and he talked

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<v Speaker 3>about it quite a bit. It was something that during

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<v Speaker 3>the campaign he brought up as one of his many

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<v Speaker 3>campaign promises, that he could bring to light things that

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<v Speaker 3>the Democrats had suppressed, or that he could expose things

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<v Speaker 3>that his supporters cared about. When he was asked by

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<v Speaker 3>Fox News last year, he made references to being able

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<v Speaker 3>to release the files if he was elected.

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<v Speaker 4>Would you do classify the nine to eleven files?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>Would you class fight JFK files.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which I did.

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<v Speaker 1>I did a lot of it. Would you declassify the

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein files.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I would, Yes, I would. And while he

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<v Speaker 3>was sort of stoking his own ability to unleash this information,

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<v Speaker 3>he was playing into this QAnon broader conspiracy movement that

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<v Speaker 3>Trump was the savior of this and that he could

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<v Speaker 3>expose all of the wrongdoing that they felt had been perpetrated.

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<v Speaker 4>That's the cross of the theory.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this belief that you are secretly saving the world

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<v Speaker 1>from this sitanic cult of pedophiles and cannibals. Does that

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<v Speaker 1>sound like something you are behind.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I haven't, I haven't heard that. But Uh, is

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<v Speaker 2>that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, if if I can help save the world

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<v Speaker 2>from problems, I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to

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<v Speaker 2>put myself out there.

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<v Speaker 3>And it became really central to a lot of Maga

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<v Speaker 3>Trump World followers to really care about this conspiracy and

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<v Speaker 3>really care about the release of the Epstein files.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you just lie at what diaphors?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the Epstein files sort of mean a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>different things to different people. At the base, the Epstein

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<v Speaker 3>files are the federal government's investigative files that pertain to

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<v Speaker 3>the Epstein prosecution. Epstein was charged and convicted with sex

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<v Speaker 3>offender crimes, and the federal investigation into how he committed

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<v Speaker 3>those crimes is a tangible set of files. They exist,

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<v Speaker 3>they are out there. A lot of them have actually

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<v Speaker 3>been already released over the years, stuff like his address

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<v Speaker 3>book has been made public. However, colloquially, the Epstein files

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<v Speaker 3>have taken on a bunch of different meanings, and a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of the things that people talk about when they're

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<v Speaker 3>talking about the Epstein files, especially among the people who

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<v Speaker 3>are really hardcore into Epstein conspiracies, is that the Epstein

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<v Speaker 3>files really mean that there is this client list that exists,

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<v Speaker 3>this specific list of all of the people who Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 3>Epstein did business with or was wrapped up in his

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<v Speaker 3>world of sex offenses. And so that's for a certain

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<v Speaker 3>section of people, really what they care about this client list.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So this list is clearly very important to his base.

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<v Speaker 1>Once Trump gets back into the White House, what does

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<v Speaker 1>he do.

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<v Speaker 3>So very quickly after the inauguration, the Justice Department is

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<v Speaker 3>commissioned to launch an investigation into the Epstein prosecution, into

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<v Speaker 3>this idea of the files, with the sort of implicit

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<v Speaker 3>promise that it's all going to come out. The Epstein

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<v Speaker 3>files are going to be released. And General Pam Bondi,

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<v Speaker 3>who becomes a sort of central character in this saga

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<v Speaker 3>in February, says that it's a client list sitting on

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<v Speaker 3>her desk right now, ready for her to review.

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<v Speaker 4>The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that really happen. It's sitting on my desk right

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<v Speaker 1>now to review. That's been a directive by President Trunk.

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<v Speaker 3>And the people get very excited about this, and at

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<v Speaker 3>some point she even follows it up by releasing what

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<v Speaker 3>is called Phase one of the Epstein files. A bunch

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<v Speaker 3>of handpicked conservative influencers are brought to the White House

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<v Speaker 3>and they walk out of there with these binders full

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<v Speaker 3>of what is the supposed new release of Epstein files.

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<v Speaker 4>In this case, in Epstein's case, it is incredibly disturbing.

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<v Speaker 4>We have flight logs, we have information names that will

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<v Speaker 4>come out.

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<v Speaker 3>But in a first sign that this is about to

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<v Speaker 3>go wrong, it's very soon determined that what was released

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<v Speaker 3>to these influencers is basically already public. It's all this

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<v Speaker 3>stuff that's already known. There isn't really anything in there

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<v Speaker 3>that people care about. There's certainly no list, and people

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<v Speaker 3>begin to wonder what's going on with this investigation, what's happening.

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<v Speaker 3>People lose faith in Pambondi a little bit. A bunch

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<v Speaker 3>of the magabase gets very mad at this, and then

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<v Speaker 3>in early July, the Justice Department releases an unsigned memo

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<v Speaker 3>saying that actually the investigation is concluded. There is no

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<v Speaker 3>client list, and there's no conspiracy, and there's no one

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<v Speaker 3>else to prosecute. And this is really what kicks off

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<v Speaker 3>this current round of outrage, this idea that not only

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<v Speaker 3>is there nothing more forthcoming, that the Attorney general who

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<v Speaker 3>just said that there was a list on her desk

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<v Speaker 3>now says there's nothing to be seen here.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So hew did MAGA respond?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, they did not take it well. Maga world

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<v Speaker 3>really has this backlash.

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<v Speaker 1>I just got the office. I'm gonna go throw up.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, and as only happens every few years when something

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<v Speaker 2>really really bad happens or something, I mean, I'm physically

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<v Speaker 2>that's gonna put probably right now.

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<v Speaker 3>You have a lot of people who have been making

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<v Speaker 3>this their bread and butter of content, creation of the

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<v Speaker 3>narrative that they're promoting about the government and about Trump

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<v Speaker 3>and about the way that Democrats have covered this up.

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<v Speaker 1>But Trump will come in and he'll make it all right.

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<v Speaker 3>And these are really prominent voices, These sort of mega

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<v Speaker 3>influencers who have tremendous reach and tremendous clout, make.

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<v Speaker 4>Some noise if you care about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.

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<v Speaker 3>You have people like Candice Owns telling her audience that

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<v Speaker 3>Trump thinks that his followers are stupid.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like you think your base is stupid. That's

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<v Speaker 1>how I feel. I feel like Trump thinks his base

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<v Speaker 1>is stupid.

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<v Speaker 3>You have Theovon Joe Rogan start to ask questions and

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<v Speaker 3>make fun of the way that there's been this complete

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<v Speaker 3>flip flop.

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<v Speaker 4>They've got videotape, and then all of a sudden, they

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<v Speaker 4>don't you know, you have the director of the FBI

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<v Speaker 4>on the show saying, there's no ta if there was

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<v Speaker 4>nothing you're looking for is on those tapes.

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<v Speaker 3>Like what Tucker Carlson goes off on it and begins

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<v Speaker 3>espousing other conspiracy theories about you know, Epstein's alleged international connections,

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<v Speaker 3>and it just begins to be even more opportunities for

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<v Speaker 3>the average maga bass and Trump supporter to get upset

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<v Speaker 3>about this, and they're met. They're genuinely upset because this

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<v Speaker 3>is something that they genuinely care about. And whether Trump

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<v Speaker 3>is in a bind because he has touted the existence

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<v Speaker 3>of something that he can't present now, or whether it's

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<v Speaker 3>because he has lost an exact bead on this aspect

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<v Speaker 3>his followers, it does seem like for the time being,

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<v Speaker 3>this is not something that is going away in the

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<v Speaker 3>way that he hopes, and it's turning into this situation

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<v Speaker 3>where he's losing a grip that he's held very closely

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<v Speaker 3>and very tightly for a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break al Mosquet is the fray and capitalizes Nick.

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<v Speaker 1>When the Trump administration announced I had finished their investigation

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<v Speaker 1>into the Epstein files, I released a video of Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein's prison cell on the Nautius Fan Dead. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>just explain why they did that? And Howard Backfawd.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So there's a significance because Jeffrey Epstein is said

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<v Speaker 3>to have killed himself in his cell, and they wanted

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<v Speaker 3>to release proof that there was not any sort of

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<v Speaker 3>outside interference into his incarceration that would have suggested that

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<v Speaker 3>he was killed or that there was some sort of

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<v Speaker 3>nefarious organization. They claimed to release the raw file of

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<v Speaker 3>his cell. Then very quickly it's revealed by Wired that

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<v Speaker 3>there has been some doctoring of the video that they released, and.

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<v Speaker 1>That footage, as people noted, appeared to be missing an

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<v Speaker 1>entire minute. Well guess it. Get this. According to a

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<v Speaker 1>new Wired investigation public yesterday published yesterday, that video is

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<v Speaker 1>actually missing approximately two minutes and fifty three seconds, So

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<v Speaker 1>the whole thing's not going away.

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<v Speaker 3>So that just adds a whole other big implosion to

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<v Speaker 3>the way that MAGA is reacting, to the way that

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<v Speaker 3>the administration is talking about and releasing information about the

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<v Speaker 3>Epstein files.

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<v Speaker 1>So that doesn't look good for Trump. Is he handled it?

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<v Speaker 3>Not only did Trump begin to say that there was

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<v Speaker 3>nothing to see here, he actually began to lash out

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<v Speaker 3>and get angry at supporters who kept bringing it up.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I know, it's a hopx. It's started by Democrats.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats,

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<v Speaker 2>and some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net,

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<v Speaker 2>and so they try and do the Democrats work, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're wasting that time.

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<v Speaker 3>With He issued this very long post on his social

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<v Speaker 3>media website Truth Social, where he said that Epstein was

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<v Speaker 3>a hoax perpetrated by the radical left.

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<v Speaker 4>Their new scam is what well forever call the Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 4>Epstein hoax, and my past supporters have bought into the

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<v Speaker 4>BS hook line and sinker. Trump adding, let these weaklings

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<v Speaker 4>continue forward and do the Democrats work. Don't even think

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<v Speaker 4>about talking of our incredible and unprecedented success, because I

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<v Speaker 4>don't want their support anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>He essentially was hoping that people would just forget about this.

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<v Speaker 3>At some point, he called it boring in interviews he

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<v Speaker 3>said that he couldn't believe people were still talking about it,

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<v Speaker 3>really bashed the very people who had brought him into

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<v Speaker 3>the White House and who were some of his most

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<v Speaker 3>supervent support. And that has continued and he has really

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<v Speaker 3>vilified the people who keep caring about this.

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<v Speaker 1>And Nikki cover elon Musk. Last time we spike, he

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<v Speaker 1>told us about the friendship breakap between Musk and Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>So how is Musk capitalizing on this? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>So this has actually been something that between Musk and

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<v Speaker 3>Trump started off as what felt like a red line

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<v Speaker 3>in their breakup. As soon as Musk began to bring

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<v Speaker 3>up the Epstein files and say that Trump might be involved,

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<v Speaker 3>it took on this character of, oh, this might not

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<v Speaker 3>be a little spat that they fix. This might be

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<v Speaker 3>a more permanent breakup. And since we talked last, Musk

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<v Speaker 3>has really doubled down on this and he's been tweeting

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<v Speaker 3>about this fairly consistently. He's been making fun of why

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<v Speaker 3>the administration is not releasing these He's been further suggesting

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<v Speaker 3>that it's because Trump is involved. Their relationship has continued

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<v Speaker 3>to deteriorate, and this has given Musk a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>ammunition as he seeks to get back at Trump and

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<v Speaker 3>as he seeks to promote his own potential third party

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<v Speaker 3>that he's announced. So in doing this, Trump has left

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<v Speaker 3>himself open to these kinds of attacks, while Musk has

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<v Speaker 3>been able to look at what's going on on x

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<v Speaker 3>formerly Twitter and say, oh, people are talking about this,

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<v Speaker 3>people are upset. Every time I tweet about this, it

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<v Speaker 3>stokes the fire even more, it gets more media coverage,

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<v Speaker 3>and so this has become a real asset for him

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<v Speaker 3>in their current feud.

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<v Speaker 1>This is part one of a two party interview. In

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<v Speaker 1>the next installment, we hear how far back Donald Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>friendship with Jeffrey Epstein goes and find out why despot

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<v Speaker 1>all the controversies that have played Trump, this could be

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<v Speaker 1>the one that undoes him. It's called Another Wonderful Secret,

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<v Speaker 1>the letter Trump denies sending Epstein, and it's in your

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<v Speaker 1>feed down.

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<v Speaker 4>M