WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 4 February 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:08.240 Lately welcome the late base, good evening, thanks for joining us. 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.560 Son James Macpherson with Liz Staurer and Caleb Bond coming up. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.640 A Queensland council worker sacked after threatening a punch on 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.160 with his boss is reinstated when a tribunal finds that. 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:20.759 Was a disproportionate punishment. 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.120 If you threaten to punch up your boss, you should 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.599 get a warning, not the sack. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.960 We'll talk about that later too. R Plus when we 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.120 should they should look at the news room. I don't 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:30.520 know how this stuff works. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.560 Basically, it's a term of endearments I live. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.920 That's sice'll tell you what anything goes in local government. 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:43.280 We'll get to that a bit later. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:45.320 Plus when we look at the papers, the new South 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.280 Wales Transport minister quit's cabinet over a private use of 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.720 a taxpayer funded chauffeured vehicle. And the front page of 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.560 Tomorrow's Australian has got a big announcement from our government 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.880 about the future of artificial intelligence. We'll bring you that 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.600 a little but first, if you thought things were already 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.560 bad in Victoria, well get a load of this headline 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:11.199 from today's Herald's Son newspaper The article says staff dealing 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:15.600 with the new Victorian Treasurer Jacqueline Symes told to stop 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:21.000 using economic terms. According to government insiders, the woman responsible 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.520 for one of Australia's largest economies simply doesn't understand economic 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.959 terms and so has asked staff please don't use words 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.040 I don't understand. To be honest, while we're having a 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:34.640 bit of a giggle at this, I don't think she 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:38.520 should feel that bad because her predecessor, Tim Pallace, who 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:40.720 left the state with almost one hundred and eighty billion 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.360 dollars worth of debt, he didn't understand basic economic terms either, 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.360 like you know, budget surplus, savings, And it's not as 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.840 hard as Jacqueline Simes probably imagines. I think if she 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.520 just learned three words, she would pretty much have a 0:01:54.560 --> 0:02:02.560 grasp of victorious, finances, bankrupt's, what's the other three. 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:04.160 James? 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.800 And they were to start with Bee's, Caleb, bankrupt, broke 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:15.200 and basket case. You understand the situation in Victoria, but 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.240 honestly it's pretty dire straight when you've got the Treasurer 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.680 saying please don't use economic terms, I just don't understand them. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.560 You know, she had a rough gig from the beginning, 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.919 because when Tim Pallas resigned in December last year, nobody 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:36.000 really wanted the job. Ben Carroll, who's now the Deputy Premier, 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.120 he had formally touted as wanting the treasurer's job, but 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.000 he said no, no, I don't want to touch it, 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.880 and so it was given to Jacqueline Simes, who has 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.600 a background bereft of any economic experience. She's got a 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:54.120 law degree, then she went into union management, then went 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.320 into political staffing, and then became a politician, so she's 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.760 got no background at all. But when she was announced 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.760 as the treasurer, they overcame the problem that she really 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.760 has no economic experience with this, Liz, she's the first 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:08.680 female treasurer. 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.200 Yes, so diversity. 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:13.720 Is our strength. You don't have to know economics or 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:14.520 economic terms. 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.239 She's the first woman. Yes, certain thing, it's going to 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:16.640 be okay. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.720 So never mind, Victoria that your state debt is set 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.040 in twenty twenty eight, just three and a half short 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.720 years away in June of twenty twenty eight, to exceed 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.119 one hundred and eighty seven billion dollars, which would make 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.320 it the largest state debt in our entire nation's history. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.640 Don't worry about it. You've got your first female treasurer. 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.520 Well done, you put that gold star on your wall. 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.880 But here's an idea for Jacqueline Sims. Now that your treasurer, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:51.120 how about you learn the terms for crying out loud. 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.080 If I were to take this poison Chalice, and I 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.320 were to be so aware of how naturally an ept 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:02.280 I am in this particular area, I would be desperately 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:06.280 paddling under water. I would be googling every single one 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:10.560 of the terms I didn't understand and learning them. How 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:12.360 on earth is this woman going to do a presser 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:17.920 in the in financial lingo if you don't understand and 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.880 how sophisticated are these terms that we're talking about? Are 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:25.240 we talking about deficit surplus? Like which one's a good one? 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.960 Which is the one that we want? Isn't that deficit 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.880 or the surplus? But this is what exactly as you said, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.960 this is what DEEI does you mean to tell me? 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.760 In the parliamentary party, the Labor parliamentary Party in Victoria, 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.200 they didn't have someone with just a bit more of 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.920 a background in economics, or not even a background in economics, 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.120 but someone who's familiar with the terms and to be honest. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.919 For someone who's been an MP for a decade, I 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.719 don't think there's an excuse to not be across a 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.400 bit of economic lingo of the. 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:02.840 Problem is if you had a background in economics, you 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:04.280 would know this is not a. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.320 Job that I want right away. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.039 That's a very good point because being the treasurer of 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.520 Victoria is much like being the health minister in any 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.280 other state. Right It's like, Okay, we'll put someone in 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.560 there who we're willing to sacrifice because we know that 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.760 at some point they're going to come acropper. Much the 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.080 same with child protection. If you'll made the child protection minister, 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.680 there is a target on your back because something is 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:28.599 going to go wrong at some point and you're going 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.120 to have to pay the price for it. And so 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.719 it is being the treasurer of Victoria. But when you 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.600 gave us her employment history before, you missed out one 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.960 vital thing, which was that when she got out of 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.680 university she didn't do anything with her law degree. She 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.400 became a career for people with intellectual disabilities. And that's 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.200 not to make fun of the fact she did the work. 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.400 It's very worthy work, but there is at no point 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:56.360 in her employment history anything that suggests she's ever a 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.279 balanced to budget or had to look after a budget, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.359 or has looked at after anything to do with the business. 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.120 To be perfectly frank, as you said, she got the degree, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.640 she didn't use it, She went off and became a unionist. 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.920 Then she became an advisor, first to the Deputy Premier 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.400 Rob Hulls at the time. And then and this is 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.520 where it all went really wrong. Sorry, she became a 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.479 senior advisor to Daniel Andrews when he was the leader 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.120 of the old position. So you know she has come 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.839 from the school of Daniel Andrews and she still doesn't 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.320 understand economics. That the fact that you can get a 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:35.200 position like that in politics with no background, no expertise, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.000 no knowledge, to the point where you don't even understand 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.960 the basic terms that come with the portfolio, and we 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.960 don't see anything wrong with that is insane. Like we 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.360 are in a position where we find probably the most 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.520 unqualified people to do some of the most difficult and 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.560 important jobs in the country and we go it's all good, 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.040 all good, nothing to worry about. 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.400 I should have mentioned there two terms that she evidently 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.240 is very familiar with tax and spend. 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:11.200 Well as the basics down, what are we complaining about? Genuinely, 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.960 what are Victorians paying for when you've got a treasurer 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:16.480 who can't treasury? 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.760 Yeah, well I think they paying for someone to sit 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.440 around and make a lot of money, cause the terms. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.320 And learn the meanings and just be like, well now 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:26.520 I'm across the lingo. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.320 I mean, learning on the job is actually genuinely good 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.920 for a lot of people when they come in university, right, 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.720 they go, hell, why did I do four years of 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.160 that degree. I've learned more in my six months on 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:38.480 the job than I did in the degree. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:39.200 But I reckon. 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.320 One exception to that is probably being the treasurer of Victoria. 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.200 And while we're talking about Victoria, you might remember last 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.840 year the Allen government decided they were going to beef 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.720 up quote unquote their anti vilification laws. Now, what they 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.960 actually are going to do is watered down their anti 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.920 vilification laws. By that, I mean not that they make 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:02.880 it harder for you to be vilified. They make it 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.200 much easier for you to say that you have been vilified, 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.000 because the rules as they are at the moment, is 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.920 that if you are to prove that hatred has been 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.960 incited that you actually need concrete proof. If you are 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.560 saying this person has incited hatred against a certain group, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.480 you actually have to bring the proof that they have 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:23.960 done that. The new laws that the Allen government want 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.160 to pass get rid of all of that. There's no 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.400 burden of proof whatsoever. It is simply that you have 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:35.360 incited hatred, serious contempt, revulsion, or serious ridicule of a 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.320 protected group. And of course the protected group used to 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:43.240 be racial, religious. Now they include gender identity, they include 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.959 transgender people, they include gay people, on and on it 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.560 goes the laws. If they get their way, it would 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:55.679 be expanded significantly to basically everyone, and no proof required 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.640 to show that you have actually incited any hatred whatsoever. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.360 Heaven's the opposition in Victoria has now said that they 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.360 will oppose these laws. But never mind. This is how 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.040 Jacinda Allen says it will actually go. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:12.400 We're just looking after everybody. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:14.640 Let's be clear. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.640 This is about sending a very clear message that in Victoria, 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.200 you can be who you are, you can love who 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.640 you love, you can pray to who you wish to 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.720 pray to, and that we will make hate against you 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:28.640 a crime. 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.520 We will make a hate against you a crime, because 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:35.880 of course it is the most important thing for Victoria 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.520 to be doing right now, to say, oh my god, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:40.960 there might be a gay person down there who's been 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.120 allowed to marry for the last eight years who could 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.160 be offended by some form of hate. So we've going 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:46.000 to change the laws. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:46.320 Now. 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.120 I'm glad at least that the opposition hasn't taken the 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.440 bait here that they have said, yes, we are going 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:53.839 to oppose it, because of course the concern would have been, 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.400 and the reason that they've tried to do this is 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.080 we have an anti semitism problem at the moment, and 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.480 you use that as the vanguard to push through these 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.560 laws that are far more expansive than just anti semitism. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.400 It includes everything you could possibly find in the grab bag. 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.440 It makes the burden of proof much lower than it 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.760 ever was. So you get all that through and hope 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:18.120 no one notices what you've done. The opposition have said no, 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.040 we're not actually going to let you do that, and 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:20.640 good on them. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.280 But the numbers so we're thankful for the opposition, but 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.800 it's gonna get up well. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.880 Well, it depends on the cross point out though the 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.600 Victorian premiere, there is a complete liar when she says, 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.640 in Victoria, you can love who you want to love, 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:36.679 marry you want to marry, pray to who you want 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:37.080 to pray to. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:38.960 You can't. They made a. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.200 Law that says if you pray for a gay person 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.640 to become straight, or if you pray for a gender 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:49.439 confused person to you know, come to their senses, if 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.280 you like, comfortable with their own gender, then. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:54.720 You can be prosecuted. 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:56.800 So for her to say that in Victoria you can 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:58.680 pray to who you want to pray to, well, I 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.319 guess you can pray to who you want to pray to, 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.440 but the Victorian government will censor the prayers as you 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.160 pray them to make sure they are government compliant. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.800 She didn't say you can pray about whatever you want. 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:10.840 Exactly the point. And that's one of the things that 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.280 governments are doing. They've stopped talking, if you listen to them, 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.520 about religious freedom. They now talk about the freedom to 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.599 practice your religion, which is very different. They have redefined 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.360 religion to something that happens for sixty minutes on a 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.560 Sunday morning in a mosque or in a synagogue or 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:31.160 in a temple but once you're outside of that, now 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.280 the government controls what you say, what you think, and 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:35.680 even the way that you pray. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.000 So always be on guard. 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.760 When the government talk about protecting people's rights to practice religion, 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.800 that's very different to having religious freedom to say what 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.280 you believe and to think the thoughts that you want 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.040 to think. Speaking of which, the transgender CEO of Victoria 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:56.760 Son Vivian said about these new laws that he hopes 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.520 they will quote make people consider how their words land 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.959 and how ideas can cause harm. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.200 And this is the problem with these hate speech laws. 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:10.320 Once you start dictating what people can and can't say, 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.440 you're effectively dictating what they can and can't think. And 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.800 so this is where religious freedom goes completely to the toilet, 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.040 because now you're being legislated as to what you is 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.240 permissible to think about the big issues of life and 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.720 what is not permissible. And so these laws are quite pernicious. 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.000 They're not designed to protect religious freedom. They are designed 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.920 to give the government more control over which narratives will 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:40.000 be permitted. And one final thing, when you talk about, well, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.600 we're going to outlaw hatred, and as you said, these 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.839 laws over whether something is likely to cause hatred, not 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:52.680 whether in fact it actually causes objective harm. Remember the 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.000 CEO of the Essendon Football Club, Andrew Thorburn, who was 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.319 sacked as the CEO because they found out he was 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.680 going to a church that happened to believe two things 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.600 that Christians believe for two thousand years, abortion is wrong 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.640 and marriages between a man and a woman. And the 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.720 premier at the time, Daniel Andrews, described those beliefs as 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:17.160 quote a kind of intolerance that is hateful and wrong. So, 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.920 according to Dan Andrews, hate speech is saying abortion is 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.320 wrong and marriage is between a man. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.079 And the woman. That's why these laws make no sense. 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.280 No one should support them. 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.760 And it's not the business of government, this group of 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.360 people that we elect. You look after a major infrastructure projects, 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.160 the budget of the state, make sure transport's running well, etc. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.679 And so on. Not quite getting together to be like, 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.679 let's say what people can and can't speak for crying 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.640 out loud. He's a really really hard pill for some 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.840 people to swallow. Free speech is hate speech. Hate speech 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:58.400 is free speech. They are interconnected in such a way. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.840 You either have both of them or you have neither 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:02.280 of them. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.640 That's it. That's the bottom line. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.040 There's no if, butts or maybes. And as a free 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:14.000 speech absolutist, the minute government starts telling me, oh, by 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:19.760 the way, how do you measure hatred? What equals incitement? 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.120 Some flog could listen to something that I've said, take 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.880 it completely out of context. Maybe they're mentally unwell, maybe 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.000 they've got other underlying issues, take it completely out of context, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.920 and say, oh, well, I did what I did because 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.880 Liz Storer said fill in the gap. Did I say 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:37.720 that thing? Yes? Absolutely? 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.480 Did it mean what they took it to mean? 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:43.480 No, But somehow I am now responsible for what some 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.720 whack job has done because they were in earshot of 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.440 my voice at some particular time and took me out 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:56.120 of context. The whole concept of incitement is very, very muddy. 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:01.320 The whole concept of hatred is extreme, seemly what even 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:01.840 is that? 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:06.160 Nowadays? We know that facts facts are hateful. 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.120 Nowadays, if you say a man can't be a woman, well, 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:13.120 according to some people, you're an extremely hateful person for 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.000 saying that very thing. But here's an interesting case for 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.080 you which happened just today Peter LaLore, which you may 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:25.040 be very familiar with. He's a sports commentator but also 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.240 a journal He's been around the traps for a very 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.600 long time. He's been dumped by the Sports Entertainment Network 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:37.080 in the middle of commentating the cricket because he's been 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.840 posting regarding Gaza. Now, I've been on the guy's twitter 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.040 feed and he posts about all manner of things, all 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.200 and sundry. He had been told that this wasn't much 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.640 of an issue, and then all of a sudden, it 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:52.200 really really was. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:53.800 He said, Let's be clear here. 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.040 I think the actions of the Israeli government and also 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.560 Hamasa crimes against humanity. I retweet a lot of the 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.920 stuff I see on social media because it needs to 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.320 be seen. I received two calls from senior management at 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.880 sen on the third day of the test and was 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.680 informed on the fourth morning that I could no longer 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.720 work for them. I was told there were accusations I 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.880 was anti Semitic, which I strongly objected to. I was 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.200 asked by station boss Pray Cutchison, who was civil, if 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.880 I didn't care that my retweeting of events in Gaza 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.320 made Jewish people in Melbourne feel unsafe. I said, I 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.040 didn't want anyone to feel unsafe, to which I would 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:38.040 simply ask, are you tweeting facts? Peter? If you're tweeting facts, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.440 I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem. 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.440 We do well. We say we have free speech in 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:49.560 this country. He's a journo sharing news articles, many of 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:54.000 them from Haretz, Israel's own longest running newspaper. It's been 0:16:54.040 --> 0:17:01.080 running since nineteen eighteen. Now, Usman Kwawaja, have i Kwaja? 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.119 I'm not a cricket fan. Can you tell he's a 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:08.800 veteran Aussie opener. He's come into bat Do you like that? 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.320 Very behind Peter Lalo, He said standing up for the 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.520 people of Gaza is not andy Semitic, nor does it 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.280 have anything to do with my Jewish brothers and sisters 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.640 in Australia, but everything to do with the Israeli government 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.879 and their deplorable actions. It has everything to do with 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:31.399 justice and human rights. Unfortunately, hatred towards the Jewish and 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.320 Muslim community will always exist. Peter is a good guy 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.720 with a good heart. He deserves better. I got to 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:44.000 say I agree with Kuwaja name I whose name I 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:45.320 pronounced properly. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.040 Of course, Usman Kowaja would say that, for one, he's 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:52.520 a Musliman for two usman Kouwaja famously had a fight 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:54.520 with the Australian Cricket Board over whether or not he 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.080 could wear the Palestinian flag on his Australian uniform to 0:17:58.119 --> 0:17:59.560 show support for Palestine. 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:01.640 So it's no surprising. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.960 I think that's a good statement. It's a clear delineation 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.399 of terms to say. Look, just because you're not a 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.720 fan of forty seven thousand people being killed in Gaza, now. 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.160 You can argue it was necessary. 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:18.520 That's fine. But all Peter LaLore has done is share images, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:23.800 share articles from Israeli papers, and so on and so forth. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.520 Nothing he has done because we need to be very 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:31.760 clear about what constitutes anti semitism, otherwise it runs the 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.880 risk of becoming the new racism, the new bigoted, if 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.600 everything's racist, if everything's bigoted, Like, let's be clear, this 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.280 guy has done nothing to say he hates. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.159 He's not been sacked for anti semitism. He's been sacked 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.960 because sen have had so many complaints about his Twitter 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:49.960 feed and about his stance on what's happening in the 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.080 Middle East that people have said, we don't want to 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.199 listen to you guys anymore because of this person, and 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.880 so seen have made a commercial decision. If we've got 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.520 a presenter who a significant number of listeners are saying, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.560 we will not listen to your sports podcast if he's presenting, 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.320 they've said, you know what, on balance, we're better off 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:10.480 getting rid of him and keeping our listeners. 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:14.000 Because in every CLI you guys condemn, cancel culture, but 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.320 become platform. And then every time it comes to someone to. 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.320 No, no, no no. But but let's be clear, I will 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.639 admit here that ESI in did not do their do 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.119 their due diligence before they hired Peter Lawler, because you 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.800 only have to know who the bloke is and have 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.399 followed his work for some time to know that he 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:35.800 is an out and out lefty and has been tweeting 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.919 this sort of stuff for a very long time on Twitter. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.400 This is not a new sorry, new occurrence for him. 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.639 He was at News Corp for a very long time 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.959 as the senior cricket writer at The Australian, most of 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:51.280 which he spent on Twitter bagging his News Corp colleagues, 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.560 particularly conservative ones, and carrying on about that. 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.240 I mean, you know, he bit bring that into the. 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.240 He bit the he and that fed him for a 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.320 very long time, and if you're going to live by 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.000 the sword, you've got to die by the sword. When 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.560 it came to Israel Falao, he said, if Falao had 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:15.240 kept a respectful silence instead of spouting secondhand hate at homosexuals, 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.480 he would still be playing footy and we could all 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.119 move on. And of course we know what happened with 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.840 Israel for Lao is that he got punted from the 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.240 Wallabies because he dared to talk about his religion and 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.800 post Bible tracks online. So he's saying if Falao just 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.080 kept his mouth shut and didn't talk about his religion openly, 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.399 then it's fine. He wouldn't have been sacked from playing 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.240 footy and he'd still have a job. So why did 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.920 Peter Lawler, as a cricket writer not just go I'll 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.120 leave my politics at the door and do my job 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.320 as a cricket writer. It's the prerogative of the employer 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.639 to say that he give everything, but he is a 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:59.399 highly political person online and if the job, but it's 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.040 the prerogative of the employer to decide if they Much 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:03.440 like we say all the time, we don't want to 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:05.640 be lectured by celebrities about it is. 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.520 Because they knew that before they hired him, So to 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.960 turn around now dump him in the middle of the 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.920 test just to be like, oh, because by the way, 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.960 none of his tweets say anything. He is just sharing articles, 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.800 so we'll say that he's spouting this or spouting that. 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.520 You are by retweeting things, you are endorsing them. So 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.399 when you retweet articles saying Israel is committing genocide, you 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:30.160 are saying. 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.240 Which was also by corrects the Israeli newspaper. 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:34.520 That doesn't make it true. 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.679 And clearly it's not true if Israeli committing genocide. 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.760 I think people are quite out of touch with the 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:46.440