Speaker 1: Hi doctor Jeff, welcome back to the You Project.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's great to be back.
Speaker 1: Why would you do this to yourself? Why would you
Speaker 1: do this twice? Did you not learn?
Speaker 2: I am an into punishment, self flagellation. This is this
Speaker 2: is what I'm all about, to help me grow. The pain,
Speaker 2: you know, helps me grow and develop as a as
Speaker 2: a man and a professional.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's good for you. Just lean into the adversity, bro,
Speaker 1: because Tiff and I are here to help you feel
Speaker 1: the pain and build resilience and awareness and competence and equanimity,
Speaker 1: being able to be the calm and the chaos that
Speaker 1: is her. And I better say a load of Tiff
Speaker 1: because she's also on the show. Hi, Tiv.
Speaker 3: I'm just here to provide the you stress apps. Good stress,
Speaker 3: All right, well I'll provide.
Speaker 1: I'll provide the distress and we'll give it both barrels,
Speaker 1: both kinds to the doctor. See how he is. Hey, mate,
Speaker 1: welcome back. And I believe you're going to become a
Speaker 1: quasi unpaid regular. I don't know if that's any good
Speaker 1: for you, but thank you so much. I don't know
Speaker 1: why you do it, but we're very grateful. How is
Speaker 1: your Christmas in New Year or how is your holidays?
Speaker 2: Wonderful? Lots of family, lots of cookies. I'm paying for
Speaker 2: that now with extra time in the gym, but wonderful.
Speaker 2: I hope you and yours had a great holiday season
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. It was an interesting one for me.
Speaker 1: It was a few peaks and troughs, but nonetheless we
Speaker 1: come out the other side. I'm just looking out the
Speaker 1: window right now. I live in a place called outside
Speaker 1: of Melbourne anyway, and it's an absolutely beautiful day. It's
Speaker 1: going to be like twenty eighth DeGreasy, which is what
Speaker 1: is that? That's probably two thirty it's probably around eighty
Speaker 1: eighty five fahrenheit. What's it like? What's it like where
Speaker 1: you are right now?
Speaker 2: Well, we're in the middle of winter here in Las Vegas,
Speaker 2: and the desert gets hot in the summer, but it
Speaker 2: gets a bit cold in the winter too, so we're
Speaker 2: I got out to the car this morning to go
Speaker 2: to work and it was probably below forty fahrenheit.
Speaker 1: Did you say below forty I did, dude. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: The desert gets cold because we don't we don't have moisture,
Speaker 2: so there's nothing to trap the temperature in the air,
Speaker 2: so the area is cold in the winter and hot,
Speaker 2: hot heart in the summer.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow. So with that minus forty, there's no snow though.
Speaker 2: We rarely get snow here in Las Vegas. Every now
Speaker 2: and then we get a dusting but doesn't last. But
Speaker 2: in the in the mountains surrounding the Las Vegas is
Speaker 2: a bit of a valley in the in the mountains,
Speaker 2: we do get snow. You within within a good hour
Speaker 2: hour and a half drive, you can be in some
Speaker 2: in some deep snow.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Southern Utah, Yeah.
Speaker 1: We don't get a lot out. Well, we do get
Speaker 1: snow over here, but it's not really well not really,
Speaker 1: although we do have a disproportionate number of Winter Olympians
Speaker 1: to won Winter Olympic gold medals, which is quite quite
Speaker 1: amazing because we're essentially an island that's surrounded by beaches,
Speaker 1: and we're renowned for our beaches and our summer kind
Speaker 1: of vibe. But hey, all right, so let's get underway.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, I think there was an
Speaker 1: invitation there that you skipped right over.
Speaker 2: You were inviting me to your beaches.
Speaker 1: I am exactly doing that all you need to do
Speaker 1: is come over here and we will run We will
Speaker 1: run some seminars and workshops with you. If you get
Speaker 1: your I will make the workshop. I will make the
Speaker 1: workshop or workshops happen if you get over here. All right, deal,
Speaker 1: all right, we'll talk about that. That'll be in uh,
Speaker 1: that'll be our post chat chat. I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 1: People always ask me because of what I do in
Speaker 1: my background exose physiologists and all of that stuff and
Speaker 1: owning gyms and working in the space and neuropsychology and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, like they want to know what I do.
Speaker 1: People want to people want to know weirdly, what what
Speaker 1: do you eat? Like? How often do you work out?
Speaker 1: How much strength training do you What do you think
Speaker 1: of cardio? What do you think of running versus walking?
Speaker 1: Do you drink? How long? How you know? Right? And
Speaker 1: I'm the most boring fucker on the planet because I
Speaker 1: had two meals a day. I've never drunk booze, I've
Speaker 1: never been high. I'm I don't know if I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: or disciplined. It depends on the day, but I'm probably
Speaker 1: I'm probably a little bit of both. Right, I was
Speaker 1: thinking before, like as much or as little as you
Speaker 1: want to share, What does a typical day or week
Speaker 1: look like for you in terms of you managing you?
Speaker 1: I want to know food, exercise, sleep, supplements kind of
Speaker 1: the protocol. Yeah, what do you do? How do you manage.
Speaker 2: You do in the life? So I I am a
Speaker 2: brain works early in the morning kind of guy. So
Speaker 2: I will get up. I like to exercise in the morning,
Speaker 2: exercise later. So I will get up. I will have
Speaker 2: a new tropic drink that's an oo tropic, not any
Speaker 2: w tropic. So something to stimulate my brain, whether it's
Speaker 2: you know, some carnetine protein drink or you know, maybe
Speaker 2: a cup of coffee on a cold day or something.
Speaker 2: And I get I get get cleaned up, get to work,
Speaker 2: and my brain works best. So I do. I like
Speaker 2: to have some time by myself in the morning where
Speaker 2: I get work done. I do some writing. I do
Speaker 2: quite a bit of writing, actually working on my book
Speaker 2: and all this. So I do that. I am an
Speaker 2: intermittent feeder. Some people call that intermittent fasting or circadian feeding.
Speaker 2: And I don't eat until lunchtime religiously that that particular
Speaker 2: biohack comes easy to me, which is one of the
Speaker 2: reasons I do it, besides the health benefits, uh and
Speaker 2: and and the fact that sometimes I don't shut off
Speaker 2: my eating right at dark, I might, you know, let
Speaker 2: that go a little bit beyond. So, so that's my
Speaker 2: compensation there. I have a protein heavy lunch. I do
Speaker 2: take supplements. I take quite a few. That's my daily
Speaker 2: dose right there.
Speaker 1: Wow wow, but not so scary, Jeff, Just for those
Speaker 1: who are on enlistening, Jeff just held out the bag
Speaker 1: what looks like forty forty capsules of all different show. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know some of the some of the
Speaker 2: more important ones are vitamin D three. We've got, you know,
Speaker 2: my omega threes in here. I take plenty of that.
Speaker 2: We've got some probiotics. Then a bunch of other phyto
Speaker 2: nutrients I don't get in my regular diet because the
Speaker 2: food here in is horrible. And then late in the
Speaker 2: afternoon or early in the evening is when I will
Speaker 2: start to lose mental steam. And I like to go
Speaker 2: to the gym. I like to be efficient. I'll do
Speaker 2: high intensive cardio, maybe fifteen minutes interval training. I'll do
Speaker 2: some strength training. I like to do one set to failure.
Speaker 2: Instead of multiple sets, I like to do some yoga
Speaker 2: for flexibility, and then I ended off with a sauna.
Speaker 2: I try to do twenty minutes at one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty degrees fahrenheit.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Sometimes a little more. Sometimes I get lightheaded and have
Speaker 2: to leave early, take a nice cool shower, and home
Speaker 2: for dinner and the relaxing evening. There you got a
Speaker 2: typical day.
Speaker 1: They are perfect. What in terms of I want to
Speaker 1: ask a few things. But so the people who have
Speaker 1: gone what a new tropicks? New tropics? Correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But a sect essentially improve or can assist
Speaker 1: cognitive function, right, mental acuity, focus, concentration, alertness, all of that. Right. So,
Speaker 1: and I think that's one of the things that people
Speaker 1: don't think about so much, or that I'm generalizing. So
Speaker 1: don't get offended anyone, because this may not be you,
Speaker 1: But I don't think most people the average punter thinks
Speaker 1: about how well is my brain working? How can I
Speaker 1: improve my cognitive or my brain function, my focus, my
Speaker 1: ability to produce high quality work or outcomes with my
Speaker 1: brain while I'm studying or researching or writing, or so
Speaker 1: what would be I mean, like weight training is a
Speaker 1: nootropic of sorts. We know that there's a correlation between
Speaker 1: cognitive enhancement and lifting weights, right. We know that sleep
Speaker 1: sleep obviously, if you have crap sleep or you have
Speaker 1: you know, poor quality sleep, that relates to you know,
Speaker 1: impaired cognitive function. But if we look at just things
Speaker 1: that we can do.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: What was the one that you said you use for
Speaker 1: the new tropic you said you use.
Speaker 2: It could be coffe, it could be tea. Sometimes I'll
Speaker 2: have you know, when Tho's amino acid energy drinks, it
Speaker 2: usually has carnatine touring something like that. I avoid. I
Speaker 2: avoid calories really sugar in the morning. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess there are some calories in the protein, but you know,
Speaker 2: it's hard to get enough proteins, so that that's a
Speaker 2: challenge of mine. In fact, before we went on the
Speaker 2: air here, I had a protein drink and a protein
Speaker 2: bar for my right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And what about so there's I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: been like it's been coming in my space. You know,
Speaker 1: when you read something, then all of that comes to
Speaker 1: your social media feed. Right now I'm getting you know,
Speaker 1: I read a couple of studies on the cognitive benefits
Speaker 1: of creatane which originally wasn't created for as a supplement,
Speaker 1: and now I'm getting all of them. And then I've
Speaker 1: done I've done I on once say I've done a
Speaker 1: deep dive. I've done a cursory dive. It seems to
Speaker 1: be some well, there seems to be some value in
Speaker 1: creatine in terms of cognitive function.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I agree with that. And then the
Speaker 2: funny thing about amino acids, as you know, humans need
Speaker 2: you know, twenty of them. We make most of them.
Speaker 2: Some of them we don't make, called essential ones, right,
Speaker 2: and those are usually the branch chain ones, mostly found
Speaker 2: in meat, and that's why vegans and vegetarians sometimes struggle
Speaker 2: to get the right protein balances. But there are even
Speaker 2: some more esoteric amino acids, some stimulate metabolism in different ways,
Speaker 2: and we're learning more and more about those all the time.
Speaker 1: What about a lot of people are now using when
Speaker 1: I say a lot more people, you know, by a lot,
Speaker 1: there's probably five percent, so not a lot, but compared
Speaker 1: to what they used to be. But people are now
Speaker 1: starting to use nicotine, not smoking and not forgetting that,
Speaker 1: but nicotine for like I don't want to throw anyone
Speaker 1: under the bus. But I know quite a lot of
Speaker 1: academics who use nicotine and the like focus and concentration,
Speaker 1: which seems counterintuitive, but have you heard of that I have?
Speaker 2: And nicotine is you know, all these neotropics effect are
Speaker 2: neurotransmitter efficiency and function and balance. So nicotine is a known,
Speaker 2: you know, neotropic. The problem is it's highly addictive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Well yeah, friend of mine
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. No one knows who it is. But someone
Speaker 1: who doesn't matter who it is. So they started about
Speaker 1: a year ago using two milligram gum, so two milligram
Speaker 1: every now and then. And by the way, everyone, this
Speaker 1: is not a recommendation at all, as the doc said,
Speaker 1: it's addictive. My actual recommendation is don't start. But they started,
Speaker 1: and it helped because they were having, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of a bit of brain fog and struggling in meetings
Speaker 1: and struggling to be present, and it really helped. And
Speaker 1: then obviously after a little while it didn't help, so
Speaker 1: they needed all milligrams, and then that didn't help, and
Speaker 1: then eventually got up to I mean no shock here, right,
Speaker 1: like twenty milligrams a day, and then Rangman when it's
Speaker 1: not working. I said it, not that I recommended it,
Speaker 1: but I went, what are you doing? What are you doing?
Speaker 1: And they told me and I went, well, goodness me,
Speaker 1: you know, and then so basically created their own addiction.
Speaker 1: So you're exactly right. I mean, this is things kind
Speaker 1: of you know, because the body adjusts and downregulates or
Speaker 1: whatever it does, and you kind of build an intolerance, right,
Speaker 1: so you need more and more to get the same outcome.
Speaker 2: Yep. I mean for the same reason. Cocaine is a nootropic,
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't recommend it either.
Speaker 1: That's so true.
Speaker 2: It's also agree for wheat last, I would recommend it
Speaker 2: for that reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they're probably healthier ways to get skinny and
Speaker 1: get focused.
Speaker 2: Than those kinds of drugs.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: That is interesting.
Speaker 1: All right. I want to talk to you about something
Speaker 1: that's more in your wheelhouse and without asking a specific question,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a broad question. Can you
Speaker 1: talk to us about some of the variables and factors
Speaker 1: around longevity and not just longevity? No, let's go health span.
Speaker 1: So from my listeners, go on what that is? What
Speaker 1: is that? Health span is essentially what percentage of your life?
Speaker 1: Let's say you live to ninety, how much of those
Speaker 1: ninety years are you living. Let's just say, well, talk
Speaker 1: to us about health span. Doc.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's very good because you want your goal
Speaker 2: is to have your health span fill your longevity CORC.
Speaker 2: And you know it's very You could approach longevity cheap
Speaker 2: and easy. Right. You can do what your grandmother told you.
Speaker 2: You can sleep well, you know, sleep a good amount
Speaker 2: of time for you. That could be six, seven, eight hours,
Speaker 2: but sleep restoratively, you know, pull dark room. You can
Speaker 2: learn to destress your mind because otherwise you're chemically inflamed
Speaker 2: inside your body. So whether that's breathing, meditation, prayer, whatever
Speaker 2: it is in your life, to calm your mind and
Speaker 2: help calm your body, especially before sleep, because sleep is
Speaker 2: when we repair. And the more repair you have each night,
Speaker 2: the more health span you'll have. Third, you can have
Speaker 2: real food and good nutrients. And that could include a
Speaker 2: bag full of supplements as I showed you, and it
Speaker 2: could include you know, grass fed meat, you know, or
Speaker 2: good protein, high protein fruits and vegetables, phyto nutrients, all
Speaker 2: the things that we should be eating. And that not
Speaker 2: the typical American grocery store. You know, preserved box of
Speaker 2: you know, cat food disguised for humans. You can we laugh,
Speaker 2: but it's true, it's fine, it's true.
Speaker 1: It's kind. How often do you pick up a box?
Speaker 1: Maybe not you or me or Tiff, but the average
Speaker 1: person who doesn't really read labels or but and you.
Speaker 1: I say to people, have a look at the ingredients
Speaker 1: in that box of musli bars that you're getting, because
Speaker 1: musley bars are healthy and you're getting them for your kids,
Speaker 1: have a look at the ingredients. Firstly, how many ingredients
Speaker 1: are there? And they'll go thirty four. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: how many of those have you never heard of? And
Speaker 1: it's like thirty thirty. Yeah, Like, dude, that's not a
Speaker 1: fucking healthful that's an experiment that you're shoving in your kid.
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, you're eating something that has more chemicals
Speaker 2: to enhance its shelf life than for its new nutritive
Speaker 2: value for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Back to our health span list,
Speaker 2: I mean you got to include exercise, right, We're designed
Speaker 2: to be moving beings. If you don't move it, you
Speaker 2: lose it. If you don't lose it, your body has
Speaker 2: no reason for longevity and therefore no reason for health span.
Speaker 2: So you have to move muscles. Muscle mass is your goal.
Speaker 2: If you maintain your muscle mass, that means you're moving.
Speaker 2: That means you're maintaining your bone density. If you're maintaining
Speaker 2: your bone density, you're maintaining your bone mara. What's in
Speaker 2: your bone Marrow your stem cells to help keep you young.
Speaker 2: So move for youth, move for health span. And I think,
Speaker 2: as we mentioned last time, hormesis right, a small amount
Speaker 2: of stress to build resilience. And that could be exercise,
Speaker 2: It could be fasting, it could be hot, sauna, could
Speaker 2: be cold, plunge, various different methods of stressing to you know,
Speaker 2: train yourselves to live longer and do well. And if
Speaker 2: you do all those things, everything else should be easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you if I had to? Okay, you're
Speaker 1: probably not going to want to do this, but bear
Speaker 1: with me. I'm going to give you. I'm going to
Speaker 1: give you a list of variables and factors that influence
Speaker 1: longevity and hell span more importantly, and this is this
Speaker 1: is not science, everyone, this is conversation. I want you
Speaker 1: to tell me on the ten out of ten importance. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: and I know that it's it's a combination of everything
Speaker 1: but out of ten, diet, what would you give diet?
Speaker 2: I give diet. I give diet a seven.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now I'm going to do two here under
Speaker 1: the banner of exercise, So exercise, structured exercise, what would
Speaker 1: you give that?
Speaker 2: I'd give it a ten, a ten.
Speaker 1: And then like, because a lot of people will work
Speaker 1: out one hour a day, but the rest of the
Speaker 1: day is highly sedentory, right, and that I need to
Speaker 1: be careful of that because I spend so much time
Speaker 1: or I can spend so much time reading, researching, interviewing
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Right, So what about incidental occupational and
Speaker 1: lifestyle activity, in other words, just all the movement other
Speaker 1: than exercise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would probably put that down at a six.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, what about managing ones stress and anxiety?
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be an eight, and I
Speaker 2: put it eight. An extra structured exercise is at a ten
Speaker 2: because I think structured exercise can overcome that, Yeah, a
Speaker 2: lot of the anxiety.
Speaker 1: Great, great, Yeah, I think all of these things are
Speaker 1: or they definitely can be interrelated and intertwined relationships as
Speaker 1: in other humans in our life.
Speaker 2: I think that we should work to keep that at
Speaker 2: a five. I think some people have these coredependencies and
Speaker 2: needs that brings it higher for them on the list
Speaker 2: where it shouldn't be, but it shouldn't be zero either.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. That is very interesting. I'd like to
Speaker 1: talk to you about codependence. I'm going to write that down,
Speaker 1: because relationships are healthy until the point where they're kind
Speaker 1: of toxic sometimes, I think, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to want it more than you
Speaker 2: need it. That's the element that's important.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, your environment, and by that I mean like,
Speaker 1: for example, I have a really nice office and I
Speaker 1: have a really nice outlook, and I really I enjoy
Speaker 1: I'm productive than creative and calm in the environment that
Speaker 1: I've created to work in. But so environment, I mean
Speaker 1: work life. Yeah, just the environment in general, physical environment
Speaker 1: that we spend time in.
Speaker 2: I think that's also a round a five because anyone
Speaker 2: who's mastered the ones that are more important on our
Speaker 2: list should be able to survive difficult circumstances. Humans have
Speaker 2: evolved to deal with harsh environments.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, great, all right, what about this is not
Speaker 1: a very good term for somebody who's does what I do,
Speaker 1: But I'm just going to call it mindset, all the
Speaker 1: thinking stuff, attitudes, beliefs, ideas, choices, all that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff that arises from that space between our ears.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I give them a seven alongside, you know, sort
Speaker 2: of the neurostress category.
Speaker 1: Okay, we've touched on supplements, but would you put up personally?
Speaker 1: Would you include that? Well, clearly you do. What would
Speaker 1: you get them?
Speaker 2: I put them with the diet? So would we have diet? Yeah,
Speaker 2: because supplements are what's missing in our diet. Okay, because
Speaker 2: I'm not foraging the forest and the earth and eating
Speaker 2: of the of the earth as I should as as
Speaker 2: as we do as we can. Uh, the supplements make
Speaker 2: up for that lack of biodiversity in my diet that
Speaker 2: but I need and my biome needs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true. And for people will keep going
Speaker 1: with this. But for people to find that out, you know,
Speaker 1: is the best thing for them to go and get
Speaker 1: a blood test or is it? You know? How do
Speaker 1: I mean people that are you going? Yeah, that's cool, doc,
Speaker 1: But how do I know what I need?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean yeah, you can do very expensive testing.
Speaker 2: We do that for people. You can test your gut biome,
Speaker 2: you can test micronutrients, you know, missing from your bloodstream
Speaker 2: and things. You can also just eat better and take
Speaker 2: the supplements. It's probably less expensive than doing the testing
Speaker 2: and end up at the same result.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So we got three more, and this
Speaker 1: is very broad but lifestyle. So how we put it
Speaker 1: at work sleep or in the old days what we
Speaker 1: would call work life balance. I don't like that term,
Speaker 1: but like the totalent of our lifestyle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that goes again with the overall
Speaker 2: neurostress and anxiety categories. I think I gave it a
Speaker 2: seven earlier, so around that frame.
Speaker 1: Okay, second last one, what I might call supplemental therapeutical
Speaker 1: protocols like cold therapy, sauna, massage, all the stuff in
Speaker 1: that space.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's good. Order we put that because this is
Speaker 2: like some of HERMESA and things like that. I think
Speaker 2: I would put that. Where did I put the non
Speaker 2: exercise movement?
Speaker 1: I think you put that at a five because you
Speaker 1: said we could really what mattered most was exercise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I want to give these a little more weight,
Speaker 2: so let me give this a six.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Cool, all right. And last one, this is probably
Speaker 1: the fluffiest one, but very important for some people anyway,
Speaker 1: as spirituality or having a spiritual component to your existence.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I'm going to put that around seven
Speaker 2: or eight with some of the other anxiety neurostress elements
Speaker 2: because if you if you're deeply spiritual, usually you have
Speaker 2: better control of your of your anxiety system and your stress.
Speaker 2: In fact, some people use it for that purpose. Now,
Speaker 2: those who have a deeper spiritual connection may get more
Speaker 2: out of it than I can describe, since I don't
Speaker 2: admittedly have that.
Speaker 1: Yes, one of the things I used to do DOC
Speaker 1: when I owned gyms, well, well I did own gyms,
Speaker 1: but all of my gyms were appointment based, so the
Speaker 1: personal training facilities but quite big, you know, like when
Speaker 1: we were at our busiest, we would do sixteen hundred
Speaker 1: sessions a week of personal training, so lots of trainers,
Speaker 1: lots of clients, lots of business and not all of them,
Speaker 1: but most of our clients. And this is back in
Speaker 1: the day before trackers, right, this is when we had
Speaker 1: hard copy diaries where people would diarize everything from sleep,
Speaker 1: sleep to booze to coffee, tea, water intake sets, reps,
Speaker 1: volume workload, you know, reps on the bough, revolutions on
Speaker 1: the bike, so everything that would have an impact calories
Speaker 1: in and out to an extent, or at least micros
Speaker 1: and macros. And so what we tried to do was
Speaker 1: to track as much as we could of people so
Speaker 1: that one, you know, if I was training you, Jeff,
Speaker 1: and I only saw you twice a week, when you
Speaker 1: come in on Thursday, after I've last seen you Monday,
Speaker 1: I've got three days of information that I can review
Speaker 1: and talk to you about. And also what it did
Speaker 1: for you the client was it helped you kind of
Speaker 1: understand what works and what does and over time and
Speaker 1: what your body's toe. And you go, oh, well, when
Speaker 1: I eat dinner at this time, I feel shit or
Speaker 1: I sleep bad, or but when I when this much food,
Speaker 1: I tend to lose energy or gain weight or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. Right, So it was really an exercise in
Speaker 1: tracking and discipline and self control and awareness. Do you
Speaker 1: think that for the general person listening to this, that
Speaker 1: some kind of mapping and tracking and some kind of
Speaker 1: tool that improves our understanding of how our body interacts
Speaker 1: with all of these things we're talking about. I know
Speaker 1: it's a bit of work, but do you think it's
Speaker 1: a good idea or do you have a better idea.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I have a better idea. I
Speaker 2: think it's a fantastic idea to track The more data,
Speaker 2: the better, because like you said, it's all about these
Speaker 2: patterns observations that can drive us achieving the goals more efficiently,
Speaker 2: and we can use that information sometimes to apply to others,
Speaker 2: you know, And that fact medicine is based on that.
Speaker 2: It's about pattern recognition, you know, clinical patterns, syndromes, symptoms,
Speaker 2: and knowing how to identify something when there's missing data
Speaker 2: or incomplete data. And the more data we have, the better.
Speaker 2: In fact, if you look at artificial intelligence, I know you,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you meant to go there, but
Speaker 2: the entire methodology of how that works is it looks
Speaker 2: at patterns and data and it looks at a lot
Speaker 2: of data so that when you provided a new prompt
Speaker 2: or a new query, it draws from that data in
Speaker 2: the most efficient way, in a weighted way. So oh yeah,
Speaker 2: most of the people who you know eat right before
Speaker 2: bedtime feel crappy in the morning, you know, and it
Speaker 2: can drive that kind of answer for someone. So I
Speaker 2: believe that's there's nothing more important than collecting your own data.
Speaker 2: I like health tech. I like apps for tracking your macros,
Speaker 2: an Apple watch, or or ring or whoop bound or
Speaker 2: whatever you prefer. All that stuff is right in my wheelhouse.
Speaker 1: I love all that. This is a weird thought I
Speaker 1: had the other day. I was thinking that everyone When
Speaker 1: I say everyone should, I put an asterisk next to that,
Speaker 1: of course, But how good would it be if everyone's
Speaker 1: spent like a year of their life learning how bodies work,
Speaker 1: Like if we did a deep dive on understanding how
Speaker 1: obviously relative to ourselves, but you know, how food works,
Speaker 1: how like the impact of all the things that we've
Speaker 1: spoken about. Because I feel like so many people are yes,
Speaker 1: we need experts, we need you, and we need people
Speaker 1: like you, and we need dieve titians and doctors and
Speaker 1: you know we need that. But how good would it
Speaker 1: be for the population if they understood their own physiology,
Speaker 1: you know, their own nervous system, their own you know,
Speaker 1: their own gut biome, the way their brain works, even
Speaker 1: down to the way their mind works. Subjective objective reality,
Speaker 1: you know, self awareness, self regulation, Like doing a year
Speaker 1: on how I work. I think that would be such
Speaker 1: a good, valuable thing.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree with you more. I think that should
Speaker 2: be part of, you know, a competency, a health curriculum
Speaker 2: that you know, maybe at the junior high or high
Speaker 2: school level here, I don't know if you call those
Speaker 2: the same where you are, but you know where young
Speaker 2: you know, teens can understand what they're doing, maybe maybe
Speaker 2: things their parents have not even learned, so they can
Speaker 2: go home and teach and CERI those skills forward as
Speaker 2: a society. That would help reduce disease formation and the
Speaker 2: financial burden that goes along with it as a society
Speaker 2: would be fantastic for humankind.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I've got mates who a couple of mates
Speaker 1: who spring to mind who they're amazing with cars and motive.
Speaker 1: Not that they shouldn't be. That's a good thing. I'm hopeless, right,
Speaker 1: so if I'm in trouble, I wring them. But I've
Speaker 1: said to a few of them, if you knew as
Speaker 1: much about your body as you know about that car
Speaker 1: or those engines, sh'd never get sick again. At the
Speaker 1: very least, you're drastic, you know, like they will spend
Speaker 1: thousands of hours learning about and building and managing and
Speaker 1: optimizing and developing systems for their you know, how does it?
Speaker 1: How do I make this thing fucking amazing? How do
Speaker 1: I make it work optimally and perform incredibly? Imagine if
Speaker 1: they took that psychology to their body.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I mean I would love it. You would
Speaker 2: happily put me out of business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. So do you do you say I'm
Speaker 1: a biohacker? Is that a do you identify? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Proudly? Yeah absolutely. I mean you know there's a broad
Speaker 2: definition there, but I absolutely am, and I think you
Speaker 2: are as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. But I mean it's not yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I'm fascinating, I don't. I don't really have an
Speaker 1: emotional attachment to a particular idea or protocol or like,
Speaker 1: I'm just interested in what works, you know, like and
Speaker 1: whether or not that's conventional or not. I don't care,
Speaker 1: Like I don't care. I'm like, I don't just what
Speaker 1: is the intervention? How does it work? Why does it work?
Speaker 1: What did you do? What was your outcome? Have you got?
Speaker 1: You know? Like for me, I'm curious, and of course
Speaker 1: something's bullshit and some things are amazing, but that's true
Speaker 1: for any field, right right, What where did you start
Speaker 1: with that? Where did you start with you know, like
Speaker 1: I know you're still You're still a doctor, You're still
Speaker 1: you know, you still have your specialty. But when did
Speaker 1: you start to diverge from the traditional path.
Speaker 2: Maybe I've always been on the cutting edge looking for
Speaker 2: new things, even when I was more traditionally practicing. You know,
Speaker 2: I just because I was trained a certain way, it
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that's the end all be all.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like you know, in religion, religion, here's the Bible,
Speaker 2: read it, this is this is the knowledge base you
Speaker 2: have to learn it. In medicine, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: training like that, and I learned a lot of things.
Speaker 2: It turns out we're learning some of those things were wrong,
Speaker 2: So those of us that were open minded have a
Speaker 2: leg up on I kind of saw that coming. It
Speaker 2: didn't make sense anyway, but I think it was about
Speaker 2: you know, seven years ago when I really was getting
Speaker 2: heavily into stem cells and my patients were encouraging me
Speaker 2: to do that as an option for them. You know,
Speaker 2: I really started to open the world of you know,
Speaker 2: alternative medicine and functional medicine and and you know the
Speaker 2: benefits of supplementation, which we don't learn in western medical school.
Speaker 2: We did not study outside of maybe you know, fifteen
Speaker 2: minutes on vitamins and minimal requirements, minimum requirements, you know,
Speaker 2: so I think it was about seven years ago. And
Speaker 2: when you go into the stem cell field, of course,
Speaker 2: it opens up all the different things you might try
Speaker 2: and do, from red light therapy to hyperbaric oxygen to
Speaker 2: you know, all the hormetic activities. And then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden you look back and you're doing all kinds
Speaker 2: of cool things and your doctor friends are looking at you.
Speaker 2: What are you doing? Look at them, you say, I'm biohacking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, What is there something that we now know
Speaker 1: that is pretty solid, like we have great evidence for
Speaker 1: or that you know that twenty years ago people would
Speaker 1: have said in the mandstream medical community would have just
Speaker 1: laughed at that or thought that that was ridiculous. Is
Speaker 1: there something that in twenty twenty five we're like, no,
Speaker 1: we know this works, and it doesn't fit within the
Speaker 1: typical medical model, but we know that this works.
Speaker 2: Well. We're seeing a lot of that in the post
Speaker 2: COVID world. But here's an easy one, and I still
Speaker 2: get this. I recommend people take ten thousand international units
Speaker 2: of vitamin D through your day. That will get your
Speaker 2: levels up probably above one hundred on your blood test.
Speaker 2: Now that's the Western measurement, so it might be a
Speaker 2: different number where you are. I've put that out on
Speaker 2: social media and I've had people write in in comment
Speaker 2: that's insane to offer that much, And I did a
Speaker 2: deep dive. I said, well, I don't want to offer
Speaker 2: anything insane, and so I did a deep dive and
Speaker 2: it turns out I was right that the lab levels,
Speaker 2: the lab values for vitamin D three are the levels
Speaker 2: that are used to demonstrate the prevention of malnutrition. They
Speaker 2: are not in any way affiliated with the optimal amount
Speaker 2: of vitamin D three. Vitamin D three is important to
Speaker 2: me because it's the only vitamin that's a hormone. It's
Speaker 2: the only vitamin that's so heavily anti inflammatory, although others
Speaker 2: are antioxidants, and it is high levels of vitamin D three,
Speaker 2: higher than normal but not crazy high, are affiliated with
Speaker 2: reduction in all causes of mortality. That means cancer, heart attack, stroke.
Speaker 2: So if you're not having any of those things because
Speaker 2: they're reduced by a vitamin, we're going to live longer
Speaker 2: because you're not buying every day, So your longevity vitamin
Speaker 2: and if you can get one thing from this podcast today.
Speaker 2: It's take ten thousand international units of vitamin D three
Speaker 2: a day. You're not at risk there. Going out into
Speaker 2: the sun will convert some vitamin D two to vitamin
Speaker 2: D three in your body. But uh, that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that's adequate for you. You take that tip, you take da
Speaker 2: good good.
Speaker 1: I think I think No, I don't think I do.
Speaker 1: I think I think I've got it.
Speaker 3: I think it's a little I think you've got it
Speaker 3: with your age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably some in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the droppy. That's the odd drop the thing,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yes, take that.
Speaker 1: I should probably, I should probably still well, I just
Speaker 1: had I just had a big drink of a J
Speaker 1: one which tyst coca by the way.
Speaker 2: Is that an Australian flavor?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. When you're talking with
Speaker 1: people dark about you know where they're at in terms
Speaker 1: of their health and where they could be, and you're
Speaker 1: you know whether or not you're just chatting or you're prescribing.
Speaker 1: What's the what's the mix of being positive and warm
Speaker 1: and empathetic but also practical and realistic. You know where
Speaker 1: you can you know you're being a doctor and you're
Speaker 1: being practical, but you're also being I think that's a
Speaker 1: hard you know, Like, even me as an excise scientist,
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm going to have conversations with people that are
Speaker 1: what I think they need to hear, but not want
Speaker 1: to hear. You know, it's like, here's what Okay, you're
Speaker 1: you're asking me about your body and your excise program,
Speaker 1: and so here's truly what I think. By the way,
Speaker 1: I'm more interested in your well being over the next
Speaker 1: three decades than I am your emotional state in the
Speaker 1: next three minutes. But I'm not trying to hurt your feelings.
Speaker 2: And here we go, well said, I mean that we
Speaker 2: have to be honest with people. We have to, you know,
Speaker 2: give them options, give them hope, give them informed consent,
Speaker 2: meaning here are the options, here the pros and cons
Speaker 2: of all of them. Let's make a decision together that's
Speaker 2: in your best interest. I'll help you make that decision.
Speaker 2: But but you're right, sometimes people need the tough love,
Speaker 2: the tough news. And you know, I learned early in
Speaker 2: my career, you got to be don't beat around the bush,
Speaker 2: you know, I early in my career I was I
Speaker 2: was taking what we call emergency room trauma call. You know,
Speaker 2: I was young and energetic and working all night and
Speaker 2: and doing the brain trauma and the spine trauma. Then
Speaker 2: you know, people came in and the families. You have
Speaker 2: to meet with the families and say I'm sorry, but
Speaker 2: you know, cousin Joe, he's dead. So you know, you
Speaker 2: have to learn to say it and not beat around
Speaker 2: the bush. Well it was we tried. It was really tough.
Speaker 2: He's on yeah, you know, and and it's hard, and
Speaker 2: you got to look them in the eye and hold
Speaker 2: their hand and tell them the truth.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is there anything on the horizon in terms of
Speaker 1: the space that you're in, anything that that you want
Speaker 1: to maybe give us a peek into what might be
Speaker 1: the future in terms of the stuff that that you're
Speaker 1: exploring that's maybe not here in inverted commas yet, but
Speaker 1: you think is on the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, you know, I'm in the regenerative medicine stem
Speaker 2: cell field, and we do peptides and things like that.
Speaker 2: The peptide industry is just wonderfully exploding. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: and these aren't these aren't new to our body, They're
Speaker 2: just new to our knowledge, right, These have been around
Speaker 2: for you know. Ever, they're small pepties, they're small proteins,
Speaker 2: and they and they can be hormones. They they allow
Speaker 2: us to communicate with our cells. And a very popular
Speaker 2: one you've heard of is GLP one antagonists and agonists
Speaker 2: and things. So you know that's exploding. You're going to
Speaker 2: see new peptides on the market, you know, almost every month.
Speaker 2: On the stem cell side of things, we're very excited
Speaker 2: about a product, a subset of stem cells and stem
Speaker 2: cell derived signally factors called exosomes that come from immune
Speaker 2: cells that kill cancer cells. So part of our immune
Speaker 2: cells circulating around our body, and their job is to
Speaker 2: identify and remove accidental cancer cells that we make all
Speaker 2: the time, our accidental sinesen cells, or hey this cell's wrong,
Speaker 2: let's get rid of it, let's recycle those parts. Those
Speaker 2: are called natural killer cells. Well, it turns out natural
Speaker 2: killer cells might be a great treatment for cancer. So
Speaker 2: we are looking to get the cell signaling from these
Speaker 2: natural cancer cells and use them as an augmentative treatment
Speaker 2: for people suffering with one of the worst diseases we've got.
Speaker 2: So and this we know cancer is not just one disease,
Speaker 2: but natural killer cells don't know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is interesting. Is how does that? I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't really even understand this enough to ask a
Speaker 1: great question, so bear with me. But in terms of
Speaker 1: it's called the FDA and the States, isn't it? Is
Speaker 1: that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: How does that? How does that go? You know, like
Speaker 1: Australia is the most over regulated or one of the
Speaker 1: most over regulated countries on the planet. Like everything's like
Speaker 1: everything super duper locked down, and some of that's good,
Speaker 1: but not all of that's good. Is this stuff? Are
Speaker 1: these peptides easily accessible and available? Or is it regulated
Speaker 1: similar to the drugs that Schedule one or whatever it's
Speaker 1: called drugs?
Speaker 2: Well, well, I feel that if there is a percent
Speaker 2: where you are that in America we're underregulated or nicely regulated,
Speaker 2: I think that's wrong. I think we're very highly overregulated,
Speaker 2: especially in health and wellness, and the FDA historically has
Speaker 2: suppressed the ability for doctors to make claims or anyone
Speaker 2: to make claims about a product, including peptides. You can
Speaker 2: get them, you can use them, but they are you
Speaker 2: won't you won't find them in a far from a pharmacy. Necessarily,
Speaker 2: some compounding pharmacies have them. But these are things you
Speaker 2: have to go online and buy yourself through on the
Speaker 2: research grade side, which which is perfectly fine. They're you know,
Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine percent pure, just like they are
Speaker 2: when they go to the compounding pharmacies. And you've got
Speaker 2: to do your own, you know, experimentation, hopefully under the
Speaker 2: guidance or coaching a of a wellness or physician type specialist.
Speaker 2: But we're not allowed to make any claims. So if
Speaker 2: you think America is the land free speech, there are
Speaker 2: limitations there too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay, a couple of random questions, just because
Speaker 1: I'm curious, not because it fits within the flow of
Speaker 1: the conversation. So I've never I've never smoked ope in
Speaker 1: my life. I've never I'm probably one of the seven people.
Speaker 1: If you have you ever? I mean unofficially, of course.
Speaker 3: Of course, not unofficially. Maybe I was a teenager. Yeah
Speaker 3: said it, by the way.
Speaker 1: Did you?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean if you had have done it, I mean illegal,
Speaker 1: and so you'd never have.
Speaker 3: But if you have, Tay No, No.
Speaker 2: Show is about Tiffany admitting all of her crimes. Last
Speaker 2: time it was bringing organic material into the country.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 3: She brought a rock back from supplement do you take
Speaker 3: for your memory, Jeff? Because it is one in a million.
Speaker 2: I can't remember, And that's funny. What I do for memory,
Speaker 2: I exercise. That's the best thing you could do for memory.
Speaker 1: Unless, of course, you forget to guide the gym. Now, now,
Speaker 1: marijuana is like broadly legalized in like a lot. I
Speaker 1: don't know how many states, but it seems like most
Speaker 1: of them. I'm not looking for a criticism or an endorsement,
Speaker 1: but what do you think about that.
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with it. I don't I
Speaker 2: don't you know, I can't speak to the you know,
Speaker 2: criminality of it. Some states have allowed it for recreational purposes,
Speaker 2: some states have allowed it only for medical purposes. Some
Speaker 2: states have not allowed it all the while, the federal
Speaker 2: government does not allow it. So you've got all kinds
Speaker 2: of craziness. We've got a bit of civil war here
Speaker 2: because the federal government says one thing and the states
Speaker 2: say another. So we've got absolute chaos. If you think
Speaker 2: Americans are ridiculous, you're absolutely right. But I don't listen.
Speaker 2: When I was going to medical school, we had this
Speaker 2: textbook on pharmacology, and it talked to you about beta
Speaker 2: blockers and things that simulate the heart, and you know
Speaker 2: all the things that were found medicinally from plants. And
Speaker 2: there was a whole chapter on the cannabinoids of which
Speaker 2: tetrahydro cannabis or cannabis comes from. Right. We skipped that
Speaker 2: chapter because I went to medical school, of course, in
Speaker 2: the Middle Ages when that was all illegal, so there's
Speaker 2: no reason to know about it except for it's evil
Speaker 2: and addictive, so we didn't study that. I've never gone
Speaker 2: back and read that chapter. But there are health benefits
Speaker 2: that I'm learning about from the cannabinoid system. So there
Speaker 2: are potentially health benefits I can't speak to intelligently here
Speaker 2: because I just don't know them. But your question is
Speaker 2: a good one. And if you know American government can
Speaker 2: pull its head out of it's behind and figure out
Speaker 2: what it wants to do here uniformly instead of being
Speaker 2: at civil war about it, it would be wonderful.
Speaker 1: My last one is completely weird and irrelevant. But I
Speaker 1: listened to a podcast the other day that went three hours.
Speaker 1: No guess what platform that was on tiff, but they
Speaker 1: were talking with a former governor of Texas. I think
Speaker 1: his name's Rick Perry, and presidential candidate some other guy
Speaker 1: who I forget his name. I feel like it was
Speaker 1: justin someone the most articulate fucker I've ever heard. But
Speaker 1: they're talking about a drug called ibergain that's being used,
Speaker 1: that's used in lots of countries, not in America. It's illegal,
Speaker 1: but which has been proven to be well, allegedly super
Speaker 1: duper effective for people with PTSD. Have you ever heard
Speaker 1: of that doc ibergain?
Speaker 2: I have not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and to you today, no no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: Well it's not in your wheelhouse, and it's it's you're
Speaker 1: not expected to. But I just thought if you knew
Speaker 1: anything about it, because I'd never heard of it till
Speaker 1: the other day either, Right, so I know nothing, but yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd now I'm going to do a little bit of it.
Speaker 1: Just interests me like they people that have have had
Speaker 1: traumatic kind of ongoing mental health issues, for some of
Speaker 1: them ten years, are basically miraculously healed within forty eight hours,
Speaker 1: and then the improvements and the change is sustained over years,
Speaker 1: which sounds like rubbish, But I mean I listened to
Speaker 1: three hours on this and it's it seems pretty solid.
Speaker 1: We'll have it. I'll tell you where you could if
Speaker 1: you're interested.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mission to learn about this and why it's
Speaker 2: why is it illegal? You know what, who's losing money
Speaker 2: for that to be illegal? That's considian exactly if you
Speaker 2: are entertained by American politicians and politics. So are we.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's well, I mean, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think we're too dissimilar. But when I've been to America
Speaker 1: a bunch and one of the interesting things and you're
Speaker 1: coming out to Australia because the doctors coming out soon
Speaker 1: to do some workshops every once, so I've bat and
Speaker 1: down the hatches get ready, like one of the things
Speaker 1: I find. And I love America and I love Americans,
Speaker 1: but is just how little the average American knows about
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. Like I think probably at
Speaker 1: least seven or eight times I've been asked when I
Speaker 1: was in the States if I drove, like how I
Speaker 1: got how I got to America, and whether or not
Speaker 1: I drove.
Speaker 2: Isn't there a bridge or a tunnel?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that'll be yeah. I mean it's a four
Speaker 1: to and hour flight, so that would be a big drive,
Speaker 1: and that would be a pretty big bridge.
Speaker 2: So no, I think I think Elon Musk is working
Speaker 2: on it right now as we speak.
Speaker 1: I think it's a tunnel. I think it's a tunnel. Hey,
Speaker 1: how do people find you and connect with you and
Speaker 1: all that good stuff?
Speaker 2: Well, they stay listening to the U Project because for
Speaker 2: some reason, I'm now a regular and you can find
Speaker 2: me at re celebrate dot com. Our e C E
Speaker 2: L L E B R A T E. That's our
Speaker 2: our website, it's our Instagram, it's our LinkedIn, it's our everything.
Speaker 1: Perfect than well, chat off airbit for the moment. Thanks again, Doc,
Speaker 1: You're amazing good sport and we really enjoy having you
Speaker 1: as part of the team and sharing your vast knowledge
Speaker 1: with us and experience. Thanks again, Thanks again, even though
Speaker 1: you don't know what fucking eibergain is.
Speaker 2: Thank thank you for for quizzing me to to till
Speaker 2: to to failure.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. That's my job. You're welcome.