1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approche Production. 2 00:00:10,801 --> 00:00:12,361 Speaker 2: Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. 3 00:00:12,641 --> 00:00:14,601 Speaker 1: I am Neil the Muscle comments. 4 00:00:15,881 --> 00:00:19,441 Speaker 3: And in this episode, I speak to Tom Canavan, survivor 5 00:00:19,481 --> 00:00:20,921 Speaker 3: of the nine eleven terrorist attacks. 6 00:00:22,361 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: And it hit behind us. When the plane hit, we 7 00:00:25,281 --> 00:00:27,681 Speaker 1: jumped up again when they started bringing down people from 8 00:00:27,801 --> 00:00:31,761 Speaker 1: upstairs that were burnt. Horrible. If your thing just came 9 00:00:31,801 --> 00:00:34,241 Speaker 1: in and I was just placed it to the ground, 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: she was there and then she wasn't. I heard noises 11 00:00:39,681 --> 00:00:43,361 Speaker 1: around me and things started hitting around me, which it 12 00:00:43,441 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: was people jumping, and I was starting to get hit. 13 00:00:45,561 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: I was hit with a leg. Thanks for coming on, Tom, 14 00:00:50,361 --> 00:00:50,961 Speaker 1: You're welcome. 15 00:00:51,281 --> 00:00:53,561 Speaker 3: My question before we get into the nitty gritty, I 16 00:00:53,601 --> 00:00:56,721 Speaker 3: just want to know about you as a person before 17 00:00:56,761 --> 00:00:59,241 Speaker 3: we know, like living in New York and your family 18 00:00:59,361 --> 00:01:01,321 Speaker 3: growing up, and then we'll. 19 00:01:01,121 --> 00:01:03,961 Speaker 2: Get into how you got your job in the Twin Towers, 20 00:01:03,961 --> 00:01:04,641 Speaker 2: if that's all right. 21 00:01:04,721 --> 00:01:07,721 Speaker 1: Well, I'm from New York City originally, I'm born in 22 00:01:07,961 --> 00:01:11,321 Speaker 1: New York City, Manhattan. When I was a baby, we 23 00:01:11,401 --> 00:01:14,681 Speaker 1: lived in the Times Square area Hell's Kitchen, so I'm 24 00:01:14,721 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: a Hell's Kitchen kid forty second Street, so kind of 25 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: when you grow up in the city, you know your 26 00:01:20,881 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: block is everything. Ye you fight with guys on the 27 00:01:23,961 --> 00:01:26,761 Speaker 1: block over from you, but then if someone else picks 28 00:01:26,761 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: on you, it's sort of like a brother thing. Then 29 00:01:29,601 --> 00:01:33,001 Speaker 1: it's your two blocks against whoever is coming into your 30 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,721 Speaker 1: neighborhood at the time, you know, And that's been being 31 00:01:35,761 --> 00:01:39,681 Speaker 1: a kid, a teenager. You sort of mine your own business. 32 00:01:39,681 --> 00:01:41,401 Speaker 1: You don't people, you don't look people in the eye, 33 00:01:41,401 --> 00:01:45,521 Speaker 1: but you're always aware of your environment around you. So 34 00:01:45,601 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: that was I grew up there, and then when I 35 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,401 Speaker 1: was a teenager, we moved to one of the suburbs 36 00:01:49,441 --> 00:01:51,841 Speaker 1: and Queens it's actually not a suburb, it's one of 37 00:01:51,841 --> 00:01:55,441 Speaker 1: the five boroughs, but it was called Sunnyside, Queens very 38 00:01:55,561 --> 00:01:59,481 Speaker 1: very Irish. I'm kind of in you know, Irish, you know, Irish, 39 00:01:59,521 --> 00:02:03,481 Speaker 1: Irish bar every block and Sunnyside is only about nine 40 00:02:03,521 --> 00:02:06,241 Speaker 1: blocks long and is at lee the twenty five bars 41 00:02:06,241 --> 00:02:11,481 Speaker 1: on those nine blocks. So so again, growing up in 42 00:02:11,601 --> 00:02:14,241 Speaker 1: you know, in the city, you you you become hardened 43 00:02:14,281 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: to certain things, but you also become aware of what's 44 00:02:17,481 --> 00:02:21,441 Speaker 1: going on around you. And as a kid, history has 45 00:02:21,481 --> 00:02:24,361 Speaker 1: always been my favorite subject. And one of the things 46 00:02:24,361 --> 00:02:26,721 Speaker 1: that I loved about history that I always read were 47 00:02:28,081 --> 00:02:32,481 Speaker 1: sort of a disaster, the Titanic, the San Francisco earthquake, 48 00:02:32,561 --> 00:02:36,201 Speaker 1: the Chicago fire. It always fascinated me, and I think 49 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,401 Speaker 1: I realized earlier that I'm reading this because people survived 50 00:02:40,401 --> 00:02:43,361 Speaker 1: it and they got to tell the story. Otherwise no 51 00:02:43,401 --> 00:02:45,441 Speaker 1: one would really know some of you know, some of 52 00:02:45,441 --> 00:02:48,041 Speaker 1: the true things that go on. Of course, they're not 53 00:02:48,121 --> 00:02:51,441 Speaker 1: being any internet. Everything was rumors back then. Now people 54 00:02:51,561 --> 00:02:54,001 Speaker 1: just make up anything they want put it on the internet, 55 00:02:54,121 --> 00:02:57,681 Speaker 1: you know. So, and as far as working in the building, 56 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,441 Speaker 1: I had been doing banking. It was First Union Bank 57 00:03:01,641 --> 00:03:04,881 Speaker 1: at the time, was just turning into Wakobia Bank, and 58 00:03:05,081 --> 00:03:08,601 Speaker 1: we had moved into the trade center. Now my second 59 00:03:08,721 --> 00:03:10,281 Speaker 1: job that I had for twenty years, I was a 60 00:03:10,281 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: project manager for commercial movies. So I had done a 61 00:03:13,601 --> 00:03:16,481 Speaker 1: lot of jobs in the trade center. I also knew 62 00:03:16,561 --> 00:03:21,441 Speaker 1: that when your company made money, you moved up in 63 00:03:21,481 --> 00:03:24,081 Speaker 1: the building. When your company wasn't doing as well, you 64 00:03:24,121 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: were moving to the lower flows. So because I had 65 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,161 Speaker 1: done a lot of work in the building, I knew 66 00:03:29,161 --> 00:03:31,641 Speaker 1: where the elevators were, I knew where all the staircases were. 67 00:03:32,561 --> 00:03:35,921 Speaker 1: And it just by happenstance, the company I was working for, 68 00:03:36,361 --> 00:03:39,881 Speaker 1: we moved from down there Wall Street into the trade 69 00:03:39,921 --> 00:03:44,201 Speaker 1: center of May of that year Memorial than weekend. So 70 00:03:45,281 --> 00:03:47,321 Speaker 1: I was only on the forty seventh floor. I wasn't 71 00:03:47,401 --> 00:03:50,121 Speaker 1: you know, only about not even halfway up in the 72 00:03:50,161 --> 00:03:53,881 Speaker 1: North Tower. But that's how I ended up working there. 73 00:03:54,401 --> 00:03:56,601 Speaker 1: But again I had knowledge of the building of the 74 00:03:56,721 --> 00:03:58,721 Speaker 1: you know, of the interior of the building in the 75 00:03:58,761 --> 00:04:01,921 Speaker 1: parking lot, and I sort of knew my way around 76 00:04:02,161 --> 00:04:02,641 Speaker 1: the place. 77 00:04:03,001 --> 00:04:05,041 Speaker 3: Okay, So now now we know that you've you've gone 78 00:04:05,121 --> 00:04:08,201 Speaker 3: in there, talk me through the day before. 79 00:04:08,481 --> 00:04:10,881 Speaker 4: A normal day at the tower for you, just a 80 00:04:10,881 --> 00:04:12,361 Speaker 4: normal day, all right. 81 00:04:12,401 --> 00:04:14,401 Speaker 1: Well, for my normal day, I would get up at 82 00:04:14,441 --> 00:04:18,961 Speaker 1: about five o'clock in the morning. I lived. I was 83 00:04:18,961 --> 00:04:21,361 Speaker 1: living ninety miles away at the time in the Lower 84 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,361 Speaker 1: Hudson Valley Fishkill, New York. So I would catch I 85 00:04:25,401 --> 00:04:28,801 Speaker 1: would drive to the train station, catch the Metro North, 86 00:04:29,761 --> 00:04:32,081 Speaker 1: take that train to Grand Central, hop on the subway. 87 00:04:32,281 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: So it was about a two and a half hour 88 00:04:34,001 --> 00:04:36,681 Speaker 1: ride each way, so about five hours a day I 89 00:04:36,721 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: was traveling. Because of my job. I was doing what 90 00:04:41,201 --> 00:04:43,001 Speaker 1: was pretty new at the time on Wall Street. It 91 00:04:43,041 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: was Euroclear, it was called we were dealing with Europe 92 00:04:48,081 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: mainly Cardiff. We were going to through Cardiff and Wales, 93 00:04:51,241 --> 00:04:54,081 Speaker 1: so because the market opened earlier, instead of a nine 94 00:04:54,081 --> 00:04:57,001 Speaker 1: o'clock start for my area, we had an eight o'clock 95 00:04:57,081 --> 00:04:59,801 Speaker 1: start here, being with a time difference you know, over 96 00:04:59,841 --> 00:05:04,001 Speaker 1: in England. So that was my day. I would get 97 00:05:04,041 --> 00:05:08,001 Speaker 1: to the office between probably around seven point thirty to 98 00:05:08,161 --> 00:05:12,121 Speaker 1: eight o'clock. On the nice days, I would when I 99 00:05:12,121 --> 00:05:14,881 Speaker 1: got out of subway, i'd walk across the plaza. If 100 00:05:14,921 --> 00:05:17,721 Speaker 1: it was crappy weather, i'd stay underground because you never 101 00:05:17,721 --> 00:05:20,681 Speaker 1: had to leave the World Trade Center, you know. The 102 00:05:20,761 --> 00:05:22,601 Speaker 1: mall in there had one hundred stores in it. You 103 00:05:22,601 --> 00:05:24,841 Speaker 1: could do all your Christmas shopping. There were doctors, there 104 00:05:24,841 --> 00:05:30,281 Speaker 1: were dentists everything. There was a post office in there. 105 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: You know. You never had to leave the place if 106 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,601 Speaker 1: you didn't want to come outside. But so so i'd 107 00:05:36,641 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: get there. Sometimes it was if I was really early, 108 00:05:39,401 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: a little early, i'd have coffee outside on the plaza 109 00:05:41,921 --> 00:05:45,001 Speaker 1: and then go upstairs to work, which was a kind 110 00:05:45,001 --> 00:05:46,561 Speaker 1: of normal thing for a lot of people who worked 111 00:05:46,561 --> 00:05:50,801 Speaker 1: in the trade center. But because of the markets, I 112 00:05:50,921 --> 00:05:53,001 Speaker 1: had to be in by eight o'clock instead of nine o'clock. 113 00:05:54,041 --> 00:05:57,081 Speaker 3: With the morning of the nine to eleven and when 114 00:05:57,081 --> 00:05:59,681 Speaker 3: it all the chargity happened. Do you ever have you 115 00:05:59,721 --> 00:06:03,281 Speaker 3: ever like, do you ever get suspicious or any to like, 116 00:06:03,521 --> 00:06:07,761 Speaker 3: you know, like feel things differently when it happened later on? 117 00:06:07,841 --> 00:06:09,121 Speaker 2: Did you ever feel that way? 118 00:06:09,761 --> 00:06:12,721 Speaker 1: No, not at all. In fact, in the morning, coming in, 119 00:06:12,761 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: I slept on the train because everybody sleeps on the 120 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,721 Speaker 1: train coming in. Everybody usually drinks on the way home, 121 00:06:17,761 --> 00:06:21,681 Speaker 1: on the train going home. But no, it was. It 122 00:06:21,761 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: was a normal day. I mean, it was what they 123 00:06:25,521 --> 00:06:27,561 Speaker 1: used to call Indian summer. Now now it's called like 124 00:06:27,601 --> 00:06:30,241 Speaker 1: global warming, I guess, but you know, it was September. 125 00:06:30,281 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: It was beautiful out, no clouds, it was still warm. 126 00:06:32,801 --> 00:06:35,561 Speaker 1: The summer was just about over. So I had, you know, 127 00:06:35,561 --> 00:06:38,001 Speaker 1: a light jacket. But it was to me, it was 128 00:06:38,041 --> 00:06:40,961 Speaker 1: just a normal day. It was a Tuesday. Every Tuesday. 129 00:06:41,001 --> 00:06:44,561 Speaker 1: There was an Amish market that was out on the plaza, 130 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,241 Speaker 1: which I used to find funny because I used to think, well, 131 00:06:47,241 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: they're Amish, But how did they get here? And I 132 00:06:49,121 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: see trucks, like, but money's money, you know, But no, 133 00:06:55,041 --> 00:06:58,401 Speaker 1: it was. It was just come in, go upstairs and 134 00:06:58,521 --> 00:07:02,881 Speaker 1: start work. Nothing, nothing out of the ordinary, just just 135 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,481 Speaker 1: a Tuesday. 136 00:07:04,161 --> 00:07:08,401 Speaker 3: Tell me if you can't remember fifteen minutes before it 137 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:09,001 Speaker 3: all happened. 138 00:07:10,321 --> 00:07:14,641 Speaker 1: So At I was in my boss's office at the time. 139 00:07:15,161 --> 00:07:18,121 Speaker 1: So we had the forty seventh floor of one World Trade, 140 00:07:18,121 --> 00:07:21,201 Speaker 1: which is the North Tower, and our office was on 141 00:07:21,241 --> 00:07:23,161 Speaker 1: the west side of the building, so we faced the 142 00:07:23,241 --> 00:07:26,281 Speaker 1: Hudson River in New Jersey on the other side. So 143 00:07:26,401 --> 00:07:29,761 Speaker 1: in the southwest corner in my boss's office, you'd be 144 00:07:29,801 --> 00:07:31,761 Speaker 1: able to see the Statue of Liberty, New York Harver. 145 00:07:32,001 --> 00:07:36,161 Speaker 1: You could see the bridge, the Barrizonal Bridge, plus all 146 00:07:36,161 --> 00:07:41,241 Speaker 1: the Jersey Liberty State Park everything and Ellis Island. So 147 00:07:41,321 --> 00:07:43,641 Speaker 1: her office, of course had the corner, and we were 148 00:07:43,681 --> 00:07:47,601 Speaker 1: in there because we were on a meeting call with 149 00:07:48,081 --> 00:07:52,081 Speaker 1: Our home office was in Charlotte, North Carolina, so that's 150 00:07:52,081 --> 00:07:56,921 Speaker 1: where we were on a meeting with those At about 151 00:07:56,961 --> 00:07:59,761 Speaker 1: eight thirty quarter to nine was the meeting, so we 152 00:07:59,761 --> 00:08:01,481 Speaker 1: were all shoved in that off. There were about eight 153 00:08:01,841 --> 00:08:04,561 Speaker 1: of us in that and the first plane hit at 154 00:08:04,561 --> 00:08:08,481 Speaker 1: eight forty, so it hit my building, but it hit 155 00:08:09,081 --> 00:08:11,601 Speaker 1: on the up. It hit them around the ninety second floor, 156 00:08:12,161 --> 00:08:13,921 Speaker 1: so I was about halfway up to where it hit 157 00:08:14,961 --> 00:08:19,241 Speaker 1: and it hit behind us when a lot of the 158 00:08:19,281 --> 00:08:21,561 Speaker 1: debris went straight through the building. So as we were 159 00:08:21,601 --> 00:08:25,161 Speaker 1: looking in south when the plane hit, we jumped up 160 00:08:25,761 --> 00:08:28,321 Speaker 1: because the building actually rocks where you're almost thrown off 161 00:08:28,361 --> 00:08:32,361 Speaker 1: your feet, and it sort of wobbled three times and 162 00:08:32,361 --> 00:08:36,681 Speaker 1: then it righted itself. But I could see south stuff falling, 163 00:08:37,161 --> 00:08:41,641 Speaker 1: panes of glass, concrete, things that don't register at the time, 164 00:08:41,681 --> 00:08:45,161 Speaker 1: but when you think about it later, pieces of airplane 165 00:08:45,401 --> 00:08:49,921 Speaker 1: like you see like seatbelt buckles or a seat. You know, 166 00:08:50,361 --> 00:08:52,841 Speaker 1: there wasn't that much left of it, but yeah, So 167 00:08:52,921 --> 00:08:54,961 Speaker 1: I went over by the window that faced south. I 168 00:08:55,001 --> 00:09:00,241 Speaker 1: looked down the Married Hotel, which was twenty four floors, 169 00:09:00,401 --> 00:09:03,001 Speaker 1: was attached to the south tower, and I could see 170 00:09:03,041 --> 00:09:05,761 Speaker 1: the roof of that was on fire that were causing 171 00:09:05,841 --> 00:09:09,841 Speaker 1: the street on fire. And my first thought was it 172 00:09:09,881 --> 00:09:12,641 Speaker 1: was like a gas explosion of something, because you know, 173 00:09:12,721 --> 00:09:16,081 Speaker 1: nobody envisions an airliner hitting your building. Yeah, you know 174 00:09:16,521 --> 00:09:20,161 Speaker 1: in down in Manhattan. When it hit, we, like I said, 175 00:09:20,161 --> 00:09:22,121 Speaker 1: we jumped up. We wobble back and forth. I went 176 00:09:22,161 --> 00:09:24,521 Speaker 1: at it to the main office to see what was 177 00:09:24,561 --> 00:09:28,961 Speaker 1: going on with the people out there. They were starting 178 00:09:29,041 --> 00:09:32,281 Speaker 1: smoke starting to come in under some of the doorways 179 00:09:32,281 --> 00:09:35,001 Speaker 1: that we had two doorways in our office that led 180 00:09:35,601 --> 00:09:39,481 Speaker 1: two staircases out of the building. But another thing about 181 00:09:39,481 --> 00:09:42,081 Speaker 1: growing up in New York City is when you learn 182 00:09:43,401 --> 00:09:46,001 Speaker 1: with the fire departments. As a kid, when I when 183 00:09:46,001 --> 00:09:48,561 Speaker 1: we called the cops, sometimes they didn't show up. When 184 00:09:48,561 --> 00:09:51,041 Speaker 1: you called an ambulance, sometimes it didn't show up. But 185 00:09:51,121 --> 00:09:53,921 Speaker 1: when someone rang that fire alarm, they were coming. So 186 00:09:54,081 --> 00:09:57,081 Speaker 1: you have the utmost confidence in the New York City 187 00:09:57,081 --> 00:09:59,601 Speaker 1: Fire Department. And I could see some of their rigs 188 00:09:59,641 --> 00:10:02,801 Speaker 1: pulling up outside the building. So as people were panicked, 189 00:10:02,961 --> 00:10:04,521 Speaker 1: starting to get a little nervous, I was telling them 190 00:10:04,561 --> 00:10:07,001 Speaker 1: I'd fire apartments here, We're okay, it's above us, we 191 00:10:07,041 --> 00:10:10,841 Speaker 1: can get out below some of the smoke coming in. 192 00:10:10,881 --> 00:10:13,041 Speaker 1: I took my jacket from my desk and I shoved 193 00:10:13,081 --> 00:10:16,041 Speaker 1: it under the door so the smoke wouldn't come in, 194 00:10:16,481 --> 00:10:18,241 Speaker 1: and I took the back of my hand I was 195 00:10:18,281 --> 00:10:23,041 Speaker 1: tapping it against the doorknob because heat conducts through the metal, 196 00:10:23,561 --> 00:10:26,001 Speaker 1: and if the doorknob is hot, you do not open 197 00:10:26,041 --> 00:10:27,721 Speaker 1: that door. That means it's fire on the other side 198 00:10:27,761 --> 00:10:30,481 Speaker 1: of the door. But the smoke was coming in, it 199 00:10:30,561 --> 00:10:34,001 Speaker 1: was like, all right, let's get our stuff together, let's 200 00:10:34,001 --> 00:10:37,321 Speaker 1: get out again. We didn't. We didn't know the magnitude of, 201 00:10:37,641 --> 00:10:41,721 Speaker 1: you know, what was going on upstairs. And because we 202 00:10:41,801 --> 00:10:44,041 Speaker 1: worked in a bank, we had a lot of securities 203 00:10:44,081 --> 00:10:46,921 Speaker 1: out that you just can't run out and leave. You know, 204 00:10:46,961 --> 00:10:50,361 Speaker 1: they're worth a lot of money, and we had we 205 00:10:50,401 --> 00:10:52,161 Speaker 1: actually had a vault on the floor with a little 206 00:10:52,161 --> 00:10:55,321 Speaker 1: moat that you needed a bridge. It was like forty 207 00:10:55,361 --> 00:11:00,321 Speaker 1: seven tons suspended in on our floor. So a lot 208 00:11:00,361 --> 00:11:02,561 Speaker 1: of our employees were taking their bonds and stuff off 209 00:11:02,601 --> 00:11:04,681 Speaker 1: their desk, putting it in their lock boxes and bringing 210 00:11:04,721 --> 00:11:07,841 Speaker 1: into the vault. At which time I said, all right, 211 00:11:08,401 --> 00:11:11,361 Speaker 1: you guys, do that. I went out into the hallway. 212 00:11:11,481 --> 00:11:13,881 Speaker 1: We had the electronic eyes at the time you swipe 213 00:11:13,921 --> 00:11:15,601 Speaker 1: your card to get in and out of the floor. 214 00:11:16,161 --> 00:11:18,401 Speaker 1: I asked someone to hold the door open for me 215 00:11:18,441 --> 00:11:21,121 Speaker 1: so I could get back in. We had a satellite 216 00:11:21,121 --> 00:11:25,441 Speaker 1: office around the other side of the building, and each building, 217 00:11:25,441 --> 00:11:27,401 Speaker 1: each floor was one acre. It was two hundred feet 218 00:11:27,401 --> 00:11:30,121 Speaker 1: each side. So I ran to the satellite office. I 219 00:11:30,161 --> 00:11:32,281 Speaker 1: know we had three girls working in there. I wanted 220 00:11:32,321 --> 00:11:34,881 Speaker 1: to see if they were okay. When I got there, 221 00:11:35,121 --> 00:11:38,441 Speaker 1: there was nobody in there. It turns out one was 222 00:11:38,481 --> 00:11:43,521 Speaker 1: off that day. One was bringing her kid to first 223 00:11:43,561 --> 00:11:46,041 Speaker 1: day of school, which was September eleventh that year, So 224 00:11:46,081 --> 00:11:47,881 Speaker 1: that saved a lot of people from being in the 225 00:11:47,881 --> 00:11:51,281 Speaker 1: building because first day of school, what a parents do, 226 00:11:51,321 --> 00:11:54,521 Speaker 1: They bring their kids to school. So she wasn't in, 227 00:11:54,681 --> 00:11:56,441 Speaker 1: and the third girl that was in there, as soon 228 00:11:56,481 --> 00:11:59,281 Speaker 1: as the plane hit took off, smartest one out of everyone, 229 00:11:59,921 --> 00:12:03,681 Speaker 1: she was out of there on her way out. So 230 00:12:03,721 --> 00:12:06,721 Speaker 1: I went back to my office. Then people were putting 231 00:12:07,121 --> 00:12:10,121 Speaker 1: wet rags over their faces, and on the way there, 232 00:12:10,161 --> 00:12:12,401 Speaker 1: I passed one of the staircases. I opened the door. 233 00:12:12,441 --> 00:12:15,001 Speaker 1: It was just a massive people coming down the steps. 234 00:12:15,361 --> 00:12:17,121 Speaker 1: So by the time I got back to my office, 235 00:12:17,121 --> 00:12:19,321 Speaker 1: I told everybody, we're getting out of here. Let's go. 236 00:12:21,281 --> 00:12:23,321 Speaker 1: We went to that doorway, but by then it was 237 00:12:23,361 --> 00:12:26,961 Speaker 1: so crowded you couldn't get in the staircase. But since 238 00:12:27,001 --> 00:12:30,761 Speaker 1: I knew it that was stairwell C stairwell B, I 239 00:12:30,801 --> 00:12:32,281 Speaker 1: knew it was in the center of the building, so 240 00:12:32,321 --> 00:12:35,481 Speaker 1: I ran to stairwell B. There was like nobody in there. 241 00:12:35,921 --> 00:12:38,361 Speaker 1: So by the time I got back, though we had 242 00:12:38,401 --> 00:12:42,121 Speaker 1: sixty people working with us, they were about thirty left. 243 00:12:42,361 --> 00:12:44,881 Speaker 1: The other thirty had squeezed into the staircase. I said, 244 00:12:45,081 --> 00:12:47,801 Speaker 1: come on, come with me, there's an empty staircase, and 245 00:12:47,841 --> 00:12:53,081 Speaker 1: then we proceeded down in stairwell B. It started to 246 00:12:53,121 --> 00:12:53,961 Speaker 1: get crowded, though. 247 00:12:54,321 --> 00:12:57,601 Speaker 3: You know by this time Tom is panic stations going 248 00:12:57,921 --> 00:13:00,441 Speaker 3: like dramatically or He's all still kind of like what's 249 00:13:00,481 --> 00:13:00,921 Speaker 3: going on. 250 00:13:01,761 --> 00:13:06,001 Speaker 1: There's no panic. There was never a panic for when 251 00:13:06,001 --> 00:13:08,961 Speaker 1: the plane hit again. You know, ignorance is bliss. We 252 00:13:09,041 --> 00:13:13,361 Speaker 1: had no idea what was going on upstairs. It was 253 00:13:13,441 --> 00:13:15,201 Speaker 1: sort of like being out for a walk with a 254 00:13:15,201 --> 00:13:18,561 Speaker 1: lot of people. Everyone was very courteous coming down the steps. 255 00:13:18,561 --> 00:13:21,761 Speaker 1: It was everybody was helping each other. There was no 256 00:13:21,881 --> 00:13:25,121 Speaker 1: smoke in the stairwells because after the nineteen ninety three attack, 257 00:13:25,841 --> 00:13:29,521 Speaker 1: the stairwells were reconfigured and air was pumped into them. 258 00:13:29,681 --> 00:13:33,521 Speaker 1: The lighting was changed. There were fluorescent strips, so all 259 00:13:33,521 --> 00:13:36,601 Speaker 1: the lights were on. Everybody was just walking down, helping 260 00:13:36,641 --> 00:13:39,641 Speaker 1: each other. We got down into the twenties and then 261 00:13:39,721 --> 00:13:43,761 Speaker 1: they they stopped us. There were some firefighters coming up, 262 00:13:44,121 --> 00:13:46,201 Speaker 1: so we had to go single file on the steps 263 00:13:46,401 --> 00:13:50,121 Speaker 1: on the right side. They were carrying, some of them 264 00:13:50,161 --> 00:13:54,801 Speaker 1: seventy pounds of equipment. They estimated it took about a 265 00:13:54,841 --> 00:13:59,201 Speaker 1: minute to walk one floor and they were going up 266 00:13:59,281 --> 00:14:01,361 Speaker 1: ninety two floors, so it was gonna take them about 267 00:14:01,361 --> 00:14:04,401 Speaker 1: an hour and a half to walk up there. And 268 00:14:04,441 --> 00:14:06,921 Speaker 1: that was the before the start to even put out 269 00:14:06,961 --> 00:14:10,681 Speaker 1: the fire, which at that time they believed they can do. Yeah, 270 00:14:11,601 --> 00:14:13,881 Speaker 1: we didn't know also on the way down that the 271 00:14:13,921 --> 00:14:16,761 Speaker 1: South Tower had been hit. We were in the staircase 272 00:14:17,601 --> 00:14:20,521 Speaker 1: with all the noise in the footsteps and people talking. 273 00:14:20,601 --> 00:14:25,121 Speaker 1: We really didn't, you know. Notice I didn't find out 274 00:14:25,201 --> 00:14:30,561 Speaker 1: till much later the day anyway, But they stopped us. 275 00:14:30,601 --> 00:14:32,761 Speaker 1: The fire department came up. We were passing up some 276 00:14:32,761 --> 00:14:36,041 Speaker 1: of their equipment. Some of us were breaking into the 277 00:14:36,161 --> 00:14:38,441 Speaker 1: vending machines, taking out some of the bottles of water 278 00:14:38,481 --> 00:14:42,041 Speaker 1: and juice and giving it to the firefighters. I remember 279 00:14:42,081 --> 00:14:43,721 Speaker 1: I took a bottle of water I poured over a 280 00:14:43,761 --> 00:14:46,161 Speaker 1: firefighter's head. He was sitting sweating, and to which he 281 00:14:46,241 --> 00:14:49,001 Speaker 1: yelled at me, you know, I'm kidding. You know you're 282 00:14:49,001 --> 00:14:51,481 Speaker 1: trying to drown me. I'm not. You know, what are 283 00:14:51,521 --> 00:14:53,401 Speaker 1: you doing? Go ahead, just get out, Just get out, 284 00:14:53,441 --> 00:14:56,201 Speaker 1: they kept saying. And we got down to the teens 285 00:14:56,241 --> 00:14:58,641 Speaker 1: at that point, and then they stopped us again. But 286 00:14:58,681 --> 00:15:02,721 Speaker 1: they started bringing down people from upstairs that were burnt horrible, 287 00:15:03,001 --> 00:15:07,521 Speaker 1: like yeah, they were even blinking. They just came down. 288 00:15:07,561 --> 00:15:10,961 Speaker 1: There wasn't a sound and it got very quiet. I 289 00:15:10,961 --> 00:15:13,561 Speaker 1: can see one lady, she must have had a cross 290 00:15:13,601 --> 00:15:15,881 Speaker 1: on her chest. It was the indentation of it. The 291 00:15:15,921 --> 00:15:19,161 Speaker 1: metal burnt into her chest. Some of the people the 292 00:15:19,241 --> 00:15:22,441 Speaker 1: skin was peeled back, and I think at that point 293 00:15:22,521 --> 00:15:27,001 Speaker 1: we started to realize, you know, something a little more important, 294 00:15:27,041 --> 00:15:30,281 Speaker 1: bigger was going on than we knew upstairs. And once 295 00:15:30,321 --> 00:15:32,921 Speaker 1: they got them past us, it was like, all right, 296 00:15:33,001 --> 00:15:37,881 Speaker 1: let's start, get a move on a little faster. My 297 00:15:38,041 --> 00:15:42,121 Speaker 1: staircase b you had the plaza level, which was on 298 00:15:42,161 --> 00:15:45,201 Speaker 1: the street level, you had which also known as a mezzanine, 299 00:15:45,881 --> 00:15:49,521 Speaker 1: and then you had the lower level, which was where 300 00:15:49,521 --> 00:15:53,881 Speaker 1: them all was with the stores the concourse, and our 301 00:15:53,921 --> 00:15:57,401 Speaker 1: staircase emptied out onto the concourse. So when we came 302 00:15:57,441 --> 00:16:01,001 Speaker 1: out of the elevators, out of the steps the elevators 303 00:16:01,001 --> 00:16:02,961 Speaker 1: that were down there, all the doors were blown off. 304 00:16:03,841 --> 00:16:07,561 Speaker 1: The lobby of of the trade center at one time 305 00:16:07,641 --> 00:16:10,321 Speaker 1: was beautiful white marble. A lot of the marble was 306 00:16:10,401 --> 00:16:13,841 Speaker 1: on the floor cracked, and the walls were scorched or 307 00:16:13,881 --> 00:16:18,521 Speaker 1: blackened by the elevators. There were piles of rags in 308 00:16:18,521 --> 00:16:23,041 Speaker 1: front of the elevators, just smoking. And I remember asking 309 00:16:23,281 --> 00:16:25,321 Speaker 1: some of the firefighters there, like I stopped and I'm 310 00:16:25,321 --> 00:16:27,041 Speaker 1: looking at them, you know what is that? And they 311 00:16:27,041 --> 00:16:30,561 Speaker 1: were just saying, just go down the concourse Headford Krispy 312 00:16:30,641 --> 00:16:32,761 Speaker 1: Kreme Donuts because if you worked in the trades, said, 313 00:16:32,801 --> 00:16:35,921 Speaker 1: everybody knew where Krispy Kreme was. They didn't want people 314 00:16:35,921 --> 00:16:40,161 Speaker 1: going in the street with all the debris falling, people jumping. 315 00:16:41,081 --> 00:16:43,401 Speaker 1: You know. Another thing we didn't know at the time. 316 00:16:44,121 --> 00:16:48,961 Speaker 1: And as we started to exit out there onto the 317 00:16:49,001 --> 00:16:52,681 Speaker 1: concourse level, all of the doors had been shattered. They 318 00:16:52,721 --> 00:16:55,801 Speaker 1: had big, huge revolving doors, and it was that safety 319 00:16:55,841 --> 00:16:57,681 Speaker 1: glass that you see in bus stops, a sort of 320 00:16:57,721 --> 00:17:01,121 Speaker 1: half plastic and half glass where it doesn't really shatter, 321 00:17:01,241 --> 00:17:04,401 Speaker 1: but it gets very slippery. And all of the sprinklers 322 00:17:04,401 --> 00:17:07,201 Speaker 1: were on. So I was last in line of the 323 00:17:07,241 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: forty people I was with. When we got to the 324 00:17:12,041 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: front doors, now we were forty feet down. We were 325 00:17:14,481 --> 00:17:17,201 Speaker 1: about four stories down at that point in the mall. 326 00:17:19,281 --> 00:17:21,121 Speaker 1: I heard a noise behind me. There was an elderly 327 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,761 Speaker 1: couple coming through. They were sort of sliding around. They 328 00:17:23,801 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: had some bags, and I told the people I was 329 00:17:26,241 --> 00:17:29,481 Speaker 1: with keep going to where they want us to go. 330 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: I'll catch up with you. And I turned around and 331 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: went back inside. I helped the people through the doors, 332 00:17:34,761 --> 00:17:36,881 Speaker 1: and I turned to catch up. I got maybe ten 333 00:17:36,921 --> 00:17:39,041 Speaker 1: feet out, and all of a sudden I heard this 334 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: rumble and felt like this heat pushing pushing down in 335 00:17:43,721 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: a wind and a thumping noise. And one of the 336 00:17:46,921 --> 00:17:48,921 Speaker 1: women with me that I had come down the whole way. 337 00:17:48,961 --> 00:17:53,241 Speaker 1: Her name was Antonett Duger. She was maybe twenty feet 338 00:17:53,241 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: in front of me, and she turned and stopped and 339 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: looked at me, and I just looked at her, like, 340 00:17:57,561 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: what's that noise? But it was getting faster and faster. 341 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,521 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't even describe a thousand locomotives coming down. 342 00:18:06,321 --> 00:18:09,681 Speaker 1: And I yelled at her to get in a doorway, 343 00:18:09,961 --> 00:18:11,801 Speaker 1: like they tell you to do an earthquakes, it's the 344 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,001 Speaker 1: most stable. I didn't even think I got that out 345 00:18:15,001 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: of my mouth when all of a sudden, everything just 346 00:18:17,441 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: came in and I was just plasted to the ground. 347 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: She was there and then she wasn't. I don't know 348 00:18:25,681 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: if I was knocked unconscious, but a peace fell like 349 00:18:29,241 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: a tent leaned to and it hit the top of 350 00:18:32,241 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: my head, knocked me down and buried me. So again, 351 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if I was knocked out, but my 352 00:18:38,481 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: first thought was, wow, I'm dead. I mean it was 353 00:18:42,201 --> 00:18:45,001 Speaker 1: I didn't hear anything, I couldn't see anything. And then 354 00:18:45,041 --> 00:18:47,961 Speaker 1: it was like, wow, that wasn't too bad. I didn't 355 00:18:47,961 --> 00:18:51,001 Speaker 1: feel anything if I'm dead, you know. But then I 356 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: was thinking my son was turning three on September seventeenth, 357 00:18:54,721 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: and my wife was pregnant with my daughter at the time, 358 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,201 Speaker 1: so I was like, okay, I'm not dead. I could 359 00:19:00,281 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: taste grit in my teeth and sand, and by then 360 00:19:05,041 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: there were little fires all over the place. But I 361 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,001 Speaker 1: couldn't really move. You couldn't. I couldn't even get on 362 00:19:11,001 --> 00:19:14,081 Speaker 1: my knees. That's how compact it was. I felt concrete 363 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,761 Speaker 1: above my head and I fell for the edge and 364 00:19:16,801 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: I said, all right, so the ceiling probably fell in. 365 00:19:19,561 --> 00:19:22,241 Speaker 1: I'm gonna crawl out on top, and then I'm gonna 366 00:19:22,241 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: follow everyone out because no matter what happens to you, 367 00:19:25,201 --> 00:19:29,281 Speaker 1: your brain never catches up. I even think to this day, 368 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: all the things that happened, it hasn't caught up. Yet, 369 00:19:33,041 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: and I started moving and somebody grabbed my ankle and 370 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: I said, who's that because I couldn't see who it was, 371 00:19:39,561 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: and they said, I'm a security guard. If we stay here, 372 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: they'll find us. And I said to him, if you 373 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: stay here, you're either gonna suffocate or you're gonna burn 374 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,321 Speaker 1: to death. I said, I got a birthday party to plan, 375 00:19:50,521 --> 00:19:52,441 Speaker 1: and I have to see my daughter be born. I'm 376 00:19:52,441 --> 00:19:56,001 Speaker 1: out of here. And I started just crawling and then 377 00:19:56,281 --> 00:20:02,241 Speaker 1: the gentleman came behind me. We tunneled up just over 378 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: I don't remember any furniture glass. I remember his concrete rebar. 379 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,561 Speaker 1: Every now and then like muffled voices if someone wants 380 00:20:10,561 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: to throw a blanket over you and throw you in 381 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: a closet and shut the door. And that's sort of 382 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: the only thing I heard at that point. And they 383 00:20:19,721 --> 00:20:22,241 Speaker 1: askedimate about twenty minutes of digging. It would seemed like 384 00:20:22,281 --> 00:20:25,961 Speaker 1: ten seconds for me. Yeah, but I felt some air 385 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: and I stuck my hand through. I was out in 386 00:20:28,321 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: the center of the plaza and I said to the guy, 387 00:20:32,481 --> 00:20:35,121 Speaker 1: we're in the street. I said, I don't know how, 388 00:20:35,201 --> 00:20:39,441 Speaker 1: but you know, And I couldn't fit through the rebody 389 00:20:39,481 --> 00:20:41,761 Speaker 1: get out at that point, and I said to him. 390 00:20:41,961 --> 00:20:45,281 Speaker 1: Now I could see him. He was thinner and older 391 00:20:45,321 --> 00:20:48,521 Speaker 1: than me, and I said, I'll push you out. See 392 00:20:48,521 --> 00:20:50,881 Speaker 1: if you can move some stuff so I could get out. 393 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,041 Speaker 1: And I did that and I waited. I didn't see anything, 394 00:20:54,321 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: and then I stuck my head out. I'm getting like 395 00:20:56,761 --> 00:20:58,721 Speaker 1: a prairie dog that you see they stick the head 396 00:20:58,721 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: out of a hole. And he was walking away and 397 00:21:03,241 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: I was like, yo, I can't get out, and he 398 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,321 Speaker 1: just kept saying, come on, come on. And I noticed 399 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: at that point he had like his shoes must have 400 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: got knocked off somewhere. He had no shoes on, and 401 00:21:15,001 --> 00:21:17,481 Speaker 1: he sort of left me. And as I was watching, 402 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of things fell and big puff of smoke, 403 00:21:21,281 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: and the next thing I know, he was gone. So 404 00:21:26,801 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: now I figured, okay, I need to get out. I 405 00:21:29,001 --> 00:21:31,721 Speaker 1: squeezed through the hole. I was scraped from the top 406 00:21:31,761 --> 00:21:34,681 Speaker 1: of my head to my feet and now I'm standing 407 00:21:34,721 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: on a beam and I could feel my shoes starting 408 00:21:37,921 --> 00:21:40,521 Speaker 1: to melt into the beam like on a hot day, 409 00:21:40,561 --> 00:21:43,161 Speaker 1: if you're ever walking on tar, you feel that give. 410 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: And I'm sort of shuffling my feet and I'm wet 411 00:21:47,721 --> 00:21:50,801 Speaker 1: from the sprinklers being on, and I'm all glooey from 412 00:21:50,921 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: all the concrete dust and powder which is wet stuck 413 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: to me. And I'm glancing up and I see my 414 00:21:57,481 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: tower still there, and okay, it didn't dawn on me. 415 00:22:00,681 --> 00:22:02,881 Speaker 1: What happened was the South tower had fallen on top 416 00:22:02,921 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: of us while we were on the ground on the 417 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: way out. That's what it had hit us. And as 418 00:22:08,521 --> 00:22:11,281 Speaker 1: I started shuffling my feet, I knew I couldn't go 419 00:22:11,321 --> 00:22:13,001 Speaker 1: the way he went because I could see some of 420 00:22:13,001 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: the parking levels, so I knew the plaza had collapsed in. 421 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: But then I heard noises around me and things started 422 00:22:21,481 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: hitting around me, which it was people jumping, and one 423 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,961 Speaker 1: of the things I got I was starting to get hit. 424 00:22:28,001 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: I was hit with a leg someone jumped and I 425 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,401 Speaker 1: guess when they hit whatever they hit. The leke came 426 00:22:33,921 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: just across hit me off the shoulder. If I didn't 427 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:39,161 Speaker 1: see it out of my peripheral it would have taken 428 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,321 Speaker 1: my head off. But then it was like, okay, I 429 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,961 Speaker 1: can't stand here. And then I remember there was a 430 00:22:45,001 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: staircase on Vesey Street on the north side, so I 431 00:22:48,721 --> 00:22:51,241 Speaker 1: worked my way over to there, where there were escalators 432 00:22:51,281 --> 00:22:54,681 Speaker 1: going down to the street and what's called the Survivor staircase. 433 00:22:54,721 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: If you ever come down to the nine eleven Memorial, 434 00:22:57,241 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: it's still here. You could look it up out there. 435 00:23:00,761 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: It was a way off the plaza that I was 436 00:23:02,281 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: protected overhead, which a lot of people were able to 437 00:23:05,481 --> 00:23:09,801 Speaker 1: use to get off. And there were two workers there 438 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: and they looked like they've seen a ghost. When I emerged, 439 00:23:12,761 --> 00:23:15,481 Speaker 1: I had no idea what I looked like. I didn't 440 00:23:15,481 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: know I was hurt. You know, Adrenaline is a great thing. 441 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,321 Speaker 1: My arms were like cannonballs. I was moving things that 442 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,201 Speaker 1: I could tendem Me couldn't move on a good day, 443 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: you know. And they said, all right, head down to 444 00:23:28,241 --> 00:23:30,041 Speaker 1: the street. When I got up to the corner of 445 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:35,561 Speaker 1: of VESSI and church people start interviewing me that I 446 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,321 Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen on the internet the interviews 447 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: with me in the street. Again, I didn't know I 448 00:23:40,961 --> 00:23:43,521 Speaker 1: was hurt. And at that point an FBI agent came 449 00:23:43,561 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: along and he grabbed my arm and he said, we 450 00:23:45,521 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: can't stand here, we need to move. We were only 451 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,881 Speaker 1: a block from the North Tower, and we got maybe 452 00:23:52,321 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: half a block away, and then the North Tower started 453 00:23:54,441 --> 00:23:57,201 Speaker 1: to come down. So some of the video I see, 454 00:23:57,441 --> 00:24:00,281 Speaker 1: I'm looking back up. The last thing I remember happening 455 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: was three people just hold hands and jump jump as 456 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: the building was coming down, and they just broke apart. 457 00:24:06,761 --> 00:24:08,801 Speaker 1: They look like if you took a rag doll through 458 00:24:08,801 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: it in the air. So I got up against the 459 00:24:12,481 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: building put sort of put one arm over my head. 460 00:24:16,761 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: Two of the things that you know on TV. In 461 00:24:18,761 --> 00:24:22,201 Speaker 1: the video, you see the plane hit the building. What 462 00:24:22,281 --> 00:24:24,321 Speaker 1: you don't see is you know it's an inch high 463 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: on your TV set. In real life, the hole in 464 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: that building was a sixth story hole. If you could 465 00:24:29,681 --> 00:24:31,721 Speaker 1: pick a six story building and putting in, you could 466 00:24:31,761 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: plug it into that hole. The other thing was the 467 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,761 Speaker 1: smoke that you see that comes up the streets, sort 468 00:24:37,761 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: of like if you were ever at the beach and 469 00:24:39,241 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: the tide comes in. You see the wave and it 470 00:24:40,961 --> 00:24:44,521 Speaker 1: hits you. You don't see the drift wood, the shells, 471 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,321 Speaker 1: anything else that's in that wave. Well, in that smoke, 472 00:24:49,441 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: you don't see the desks, the file cabinets, the chairs, 473 00:24:52,281 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: the telephones, the people, the file cabinets, the copy machines. 474 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,321 Speaker 1: You don't see anything that would be in one hundred 475 00:24:59,321 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: and ten story building. All you see the smoke, but 476 00:25:02,521 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: all that stuff is in there and somehow, you know. 477 00:25:05,441 --> 00:25:08,761 Speaker 1: I got knocked around a few things, but I made 478 00:25:08,761 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: it up by city Hall, where police officers grabbed me. 479 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,001 Speaker 1: They asked me, you know where you're going. I said 480 00:25:15,041 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: I had enough today, I was going home. They said 481 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,441 Speaker 1: where do you live. I told him Fishkill, New York 482 00:25:20,481 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: and he said that's like upstate. I said ninety miles 483 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,001 Speaker 1: and they said how are you getting there? I said, 484 00:25:25,001 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: I'm walking, you know, total shock, and they said you 485 00:25:28,521 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: need to come with us. So they grabbed me. They 486 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,201 Speaker 1: put me in an ambulance. I went up to Beth 487 00:25:33,321 --> 00:25:35,961 Speaker 1: Israel Hospital. When we got there, I was the only 488 00:25:36,001 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: one there. They had doctors, nurses, gurneys in the street 489 00:25:40,321 --> 00:25:43,281 Speaker 1: and they took me out. They said, well, he's critical, 490 00:25:43,281 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: and I was, who's you know? Critical? I'm fine, I'm fine. 491 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,041 Speaker 1: So they brought me in. I didn't realize I had 492 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:53,921 Speaker 1: fractured my skull. I got burnt, pretty good cuts, bruises, 493 00:25:53,921 --> 00:25:56,721 Speaker 1: I had a little fractured bone, just my nose here. 494 00:25:56,961 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: But they brought me in. They cut my clothes off. 495 00:26:00,321 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: I had to go through two tanks of oxygen because 496 00:26:02,921 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: of all the smoke, to call them monoxide, to call 497 00:26:06,521 --> 00:26:11,161 Speaker 1: them dioxide, the open wounds with god knows what chemicals, asbestos, 498 00:26:11,201 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: everything else. And as they were stitching and stapling my 499 00:26:15,961 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: head up, I was watching the TV seeing the towers 500 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: come down, and I kept saying, like, what happened? And 501 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: they were like, you were there, But I was like, 502 00:26:25,041 --> 00:26:27,681 Speaker 1: you know, I have no recollection that this happening at 503 00:26:27,681 --> 00:26:31,681 Speaker 1: the time. And then they hooked me up. They left 504 00:26:31,721 --> 00:26:33,961 Speaker 1: me alone in the room, at which time I was like, 505 00:26:34,001 --> 00:26:36,241 Speaker 1: all right, I've had enough. I'm not a good patient 506 00:26:36,681 --> 00:26:39,241 Speaker 1: at the hospitals. And I sat up, I pulled the 507 00:26:39,281 --> 00:26:41,321 Speaker 1: tubes out, I went out in the hole. I went 508 00:26:41,321 --> 00:26:44,121 Speaker 1: into a dirty scrub bin and I put dirty scrubs 509 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: on and I put them on and I walked out 510 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,641 Speaker 1: of the hospital. Wow, I don't remember ever signing anything. 511 00:26:53,281 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: I remember lines there, people giving blood and I walked 512 00:26:57,201 --> 00:27:01,561 Speaker 1: about thirty five blocks up to Grant Central Station. In 513 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,761 Speaker 1: between I used the phone. Back back in the day 514 00:27:04,761 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: they had the payphones. I was able to get on 515 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: the phone to my mother in law back home was 516 00:27:09,961 --> 00:27:13,041 Speaker 1: watching my son. She got touch with my wife who 517 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: worked in Midtown on the West Side, and I got 518 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,761 Speaker 1: to meet her in Grand Central station, right under the 519 00:27:19,801 --> 00:27:23,561 Speaker 1: clock where do you ever see some of the Disney movies? 520 00:27:23,721 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: They always have that clocke in there Madagascar? Yeah, And 521 00:27:28,001 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: I ended up going home on the train. I remember 522 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,761 Speaker 1: people looking at me like I was a freak because 523 00:27:31,921 --> 00:27:35,241 Speaker 1: I still had all bandages. I had dirty, bloody scrubs on, 524 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: melted shoes and a shirt from a clothing bin that 525 00:27:39,761 --> 00:27:42,561 Speaker 1: was too small. It was white with gray pinstripes venues 526 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: and came halfway down my arms. I couldn't button the 527 00:27:45,921 --> 00:27:49,801 Speaker 1: top the bottom, and I looked like I probably was 528 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: a homeless guy again into a fight and lost. 529 00:27:52,241 --> 00:27:56,321 Speaker 4: But so what was actually when did they actually hate it? 530 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,281 Speaker 1: So when it hit me when I got home and 531 00:28:01,321 --> 00:28:05,521 Speaker 1: I started watching the TV, and people started calling the 532 00:28:05,561 --> 00:28:09,761 Speaker 1: house because they're my name being you know, Thomas Cannavan. 533 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: There was a gentleman killed here named Sean Thomas Canavan. 534 00:28:14,921 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: So my parents listening to this, they live upstate, They 535 00:28:17,721 --> 00:28:19,561 Speaker 1: live on the other side of the river in Monticello, 536 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,681 Speaker 1: New York, and they had seen what was happening. They 537 00:28:23,761 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: got in the car to come down to see because 538 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,601 Speaker 1: they seen me on TV. But when they first heard 539 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,721 Speaker 1: the names of people that were missing. They you sort 540 00:28:32,721 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: of block out the Sean, but then they hear the 541 00:28:34,721 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: Thomas Canavan part. So they tried to get to the city. 542 00:28:37,761 --> 00:28:40,721 Speaker 1: They weren't allowed. They would turn back. Nobody was allowed 543 00:28:40,801 --> 00:28:46,521 Speaker 1: in Manhattan. But that night watching TV and then people 544 00:28:46,561 --> 00:28:49,881 Speaker 1: that I work with calling the house saying, you know, 545 00:28:50,601 --> 00:28:53,281 Speaker 1: we saw you on TV. You know, we saw the interview. 546 00:28:53,321 --> 00:28:57,281 Speaker 1: Are you okay? And I was like, while I'm home, 547 00:28:57,561 --> 00:29:01,321 Speaker 1: you know, And still at that point, the adrenaline was 548 00:29:01,361 --> 00:29:04,841 Speaker 1: still like pumping. But I started watching the TV because 549 00:29:04,841 --> 00:29:07,641 Speaker 1: if I survived, some of the people in front of me, 550 00:29:07,881 --> 00:29:10,921 Speaker 1: maybe they're out, you know, maybe something happened. I'll see 551 00:29:10,961 --> 00:29:14,841 Speaker 1: them on TV. Maybe they survived too. We did lose 552 00:29:14,881 --> 00:29:17,481 Speaker 1: four Antonette being one of them. I don't believe they 553 00:29:17,521 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: ever found anything of three of them. The fourth person, 554 00:29:21,761 --> 00:29:23,841 Speaker 1: I think they found a little piece of her jaw 555 00:29:23,921 --> 00:29:33,041 Speaker 1: bone in their recovery. But uh, yeah, what was it? 556 00:29:33,121 --> 00:29:34,921 Speaker 3: What was it that you know, you know, when you 557 00:29:34,921 --> 00:29:36,761 Speaker 3: were trapped, Like I know that you said that you 558 00:29:36,801 --> 00:29:39,481 Speaker 3: wanted to get home for the birthday and all like that, 559 00:29:39,641 --> 00:29:43,561 Speaker 3: But did you ever feel that this is it, You're 560 00:29:43,561 --> 00:29:45,801 Speaker 3: not getting out or did did you always have confidence 561 00:29:45,801 --> 00:29:46,161 Speaker 3: you were going. 562 00:29:46,121 --> 00:29:46,921 Speaker 2: To get out. 563 00:29:47,241 --> 00:29:50,561 Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. I don't think the thought of I 564 00:29:50,601 --> 00:29:52,521 Speaker 1: know I'm getting out or I'm not getting out ever 565 00:29:52,681 --> 00:29:56,561 Speaker 1: came into my head. It was just keep going. One thing. 566 00:29:56,841 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: One of the other things you learned being in New 567 00:29:58,281 --> 00:30:00,921 Speaker 1: Yorker is unless you know, it's not the first guy 568 00:30:00,961 --> 00:30:04,921 Speaker 1: that's knocked down, it's the last guy that standing that 569 00:30:05,761 --> 00:30:10,081 Speaker 1: he's the winner. And you just I don't know if 570 00:30:10,081 --> 00:30:12,921 Speaker 1: it's ingrained at this point, but you just keep going. 571 00:30:13,001 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: You put your head down and you do what you 572 00:30:14,481 --> 00:30:19,401 Speaker 1: have to do. Rather than being an active thing, I 573 00:30:19,521 --> 00:30:21,961 Speaker 1: was more reactive because if I was going one way 574 00:30:21,961 --> 00:30:24,561 Speaker 1: and I couldn't go that way, I had to adjust. 575 00:30:25,361 --> 00:30:27,521 Speaker 1: Things falling, I had to adjust. So I was very 576 00:30:27,561 --> 00:30:31,161 Speaker 1: reactive to what was going on around me. And again 577 00:30:31,241 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: your mind goes blank, Well mind it anyway. It was 578 00:30:34,281 --> 00:30:37,641 Speaker 1: more just keep going, you know the direction you're going. 579 00:30:38,041 --> 00:30:39,681 Speaker 1: I didn't know I was going up at the time, 580 00:30:40,001 --> 00:30:41,961 Speaker 1: but when I was outside the building, I said, okay, 581 00:30:42,001 --> 00:30:46,441 Speaker 1: I'm outside the building. I didn't know what was going 582 00:30:46,481 --> 00:30:47,921 Speaker 1: on with the other building. You know, I didn't know 583 00:30:47,961 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to get hit with a bunch of stuff. 584 00:30:49,521 --> 00:30:53,641 Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen. I don't think 585 00:30:54,521 --> 00:30:56,841 Speaker 1: you were when you go on instinct or whatever it is, 586 00:30:56,841 --> 00:31:00,081 Speaker 1: that you can plan for anything, because I mean, it 587 00:31:00,441 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: still doesn't register, like how does this happen? This is 588 00:31:03,721 --> 00:31:06,121 Speaker 1: two thousand and one and New York City, like this 589 00:31:06,201 --> 00:31:09,161 Speaker 1: is you know, this is happening here? Like how how 590 00:31:09,241 --> 00:31:13,561 Speaker 1: is this going on? You know, it was so out 591 00:31:13,601 --> 00:31:17,441 Speaker 1: of the ordinary where I fear today that something happens 592 00:31:17,481 --> 00:31:20,121 Speaker 1: like this, where a building gets hit, people are not 593 00:31:20,161 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: going to be orderly leaving. The first thing they're going 594 00:31:22,241 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: to think of is a collapse, and they're going to 595 00:31:24,281 --> 00:31:26,041 Speaker 1: be rushing and more people are going to get hurt 596 00:31:26,161 --> 00:31:30,561 Speaker 1: or killed or trampled. You know. But up until then, 597 00:31:30,721 --> 00:31:34,041 Speaker 1: it had never happened, so you know, you had nothing 598 00:31:34,081 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: to go by. The only thing I had to go 599 00:31:36,041 --> 00:31:40,161 Speaker 1: by was reading as a kid history that history is 600 00:31:40,201 --> 00:31:43,961 Speaker 1: told by survivors. Yeah, and okay, I'm out. So now 601 00:31:44,001 --> 00:31:46,801 Speaker 1: I can tell people, you know, what happened to me. 602 00:31:47,041 --> 00:31:51,881 Speaker 1: I can relate to people because you know, got all 603 00:31:51,881 --> 00:31:53,521 Speaker 1: the stuff out there on the internet. There's so many 604 00:31:53,561 --> 00:31:57,921 Speaker 1: of these conspiracy theories, you know, and listen, two planes 605 00:31:57,961 --> 00:32:00,281 Speaker 1: got hit by two you know, two buildings got hit 606 00:32:00,281 --> 00:32:03,321 Speaker 1: by two planes here and people were murdered here. That 607 00:32:03,441 --> 00:32:05,801 Speaker 1: that's to me, that's the very base thing, you know. 608 00:32:05,961 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: As far as everything else, there's stuff I don't know, 609 00:32:08,881 --> 00:32:10,681 Speaker 1: but there are things I know. I know what happened. 610 00:32:10,721 --> 00:32:13,881 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm here me on the internet, 611 00:32:13,881 --> 00:32:16,081 Speaker 1: I have people saying it's fake, it's a I you 612 00:32:16,081 --> 00:32:18,761 Speaker 1: know there. I don't believe there was AI in two 613 00:32:18,801 --> 00:32:22,521 Speaker 1: thousand and one. First off, you know that people could 614 00:32:22,561 --> 00:32:25,281 Speaker 1: do that. I've learned to live with that. You know, 615 00:32:25,841 --> 00:32:30,401 Speaker 1: the conspiracy theory people whatever, you know, I can't change 616 00:32:30,401 --> 00:32:30,881 Speaker 1: their minds. 617 00:32:31,601 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 3: You know what you know when you you you finally 618 00:32:33,481 --> 00:32:35,801 Speaker 3: got out and you say, because you were so far 619 00:32:35,921 --> 00:32:38,481 Speaker 3: down in the building, what was the what was the 620 00:32:38,521 --> 00:32:41,361 Speaker 3: noise actually like when you were on street level? 621 00:32:41,601 --> 00:32:44,401 Speaker 2: Was it like intense? Was it like just screaming? Was 622 00:32:44,441 --> 00:32:46,641 Speaker 2: it not like nothing? 623 00:32:46,721 --> 00:32:50,521 Speaker 1: It was if you've ever been in a snowstorm, in 624 00:32:50,601 --> 00:32:53,641 Speaker 1: a blizzard, like when it snows in New York, it's 625 00:32:53,721 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: very quiet. Everything is muffled. There's a lot of a 626 00:32:56,441 --> 00:32:59,561 Speaker 1: lot of cars in the street. When I got out 627 00:32:59,601 --> 00:33:02,921 Speaker 1: of the buildings, everything was white from all the ash. 628 00:33:03,121 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: It looks like it had snowed, but the sun was 629 00:33:05,081 --> 00:33:08,321 Speaker 1: out as I'm walking up the street. I think it 630 00:33:08,401 --> 00:33:11,521 Speaker 1: was so soon after the collapse that there was nobody 631 00:33:11,601 --> 00:33:13,521 Speaker 1: yelling in the street. There was no not that I 632 00:33:13,601 --> 00:33:18,601 Speaker 1: recall anyway. The first thing that I recall hearing after 633 00:33:18,921 --> 00:33:23,241 Speaker 1: my buildings started coming down was the doors of ambulances 634 00:33:23,281 --> 00:33:26,481 Speaker 1: slamming shut and taking the ambulance taking off as people 635 00:33:26,481 --> 00:33:29,081 Speaker 1: were trying to get out of you know, they were 636 00:33:29,081 --> 00:33:31,561 Speaker 1: picking up people from the first collapse. Now there's a 637 00:33:31,601 --> 00:33:34,881 Speaker 1: second collapse, and there were people trying to get out 638 00:33:34,881 --> 00:33:38,401 Speaker 1: of there. I don't remember anyone screaming. I don't none 639 00:33:38,441 --> 00:33:42,041 Speaker 1: of that at all. Some of the videos that I'm in, 640 00:33:43,281 --> 00:33:45,321 Speaker 1: you know, there is sound and as I'm walking up 641 00:33:45,321 --> 00:33:47,761 Speaker 1: the street, you really don't hear anything. You know, I 642 00:33:47,801 --> 00:33:50,601 Speaker 1: have a firefighter telling the guy their ambulance is up 643 00:33:50,761 --> 00:33:54,041 Speaker 1: up further or you know, I remember cursing someone's going 644 00:33:54,081 --> 00:33:56,641 Speaker 1: to pay for this, and you know, blah blah blah, 645 00:33:57,041 --> 00:34:02,321 Speaker 1: not really proper non cussing words, but you know, and 646 00:34:02,401 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: giving an ur rah and my thumbs up again and 647 00:34:05,241 --> 00:34:07,881 Speaker 1: not knowing you know what I look like. I mean, 648 00:34:07,921 --> 00:34:11,041 Speaker 1: you've seen the pictures, so they're not pretty, but. 649 00:34:12,201 --> 00:34:13,401 Speaker 2: How did you deal with the trauma? 650 00:34:13,481 --> 00:34:19,241 Speaker 1: After you sleep for about three hours. For about the 651 00:34:19,281 --> 00:34:23,401 Speaker 1: first ten years, three or four hours, you deal with 652 00:34:23,441 --> 00:34:26,201 Speaker 1: the trauma much. I've come to deal with it much 653 00:34:26,321 --> 00:34:29,681 Speaker 1: like getting old, which is it sucks to get old, 654 00:34:30,361 --> 00:34:33,201 Speaker 1: but it's better than the alternative of not getting old. 655 00:34:34,721 --> 00:34:38,241 Speaker 1: You have to adapt to things. You have to. You know. 656 00:34:38,561 --> 00:34:42,961 Speaker 1: One of the biggest things between survivor groups is you 657 00:34:43,081 --> 00:34:45,361 Speaker 1: get it. We call it. You get it. You understand 658 00:34:45,401 --> 00:34:49,681 Speaker 1: what it's like. You don't. You can't convince people who 659 00:34:49,801 --> 00:34:52,921 Speaker 1: think they know what it's like. Same thing with military guys. 660 00:34:53,841 --> 00:34:58,121 Speaker 1: They can communicate on a different level than regular people. 661 00:34:58,441 --> 00:35:02,321 Speaker 1: Things they've seen, things they've done. You can't make people 662 00:35:02,401 --> 00:35:07,761 Speaker 1: understand it if they weren't there. And the other thing 663 00:35:07,841 --> 00:35:10,921 Speaker 1: is people say we'll get over it. You don't. You 664 00:35:10,961 --> 00:35:13,441 Speaker 1: don't really get over it. You learn to deal with 665 00:35:13,481 --> 00:35:15,921 Speaker 1: it and you and you move on again. It's putting 666 00:35:15,921 --> 00:35:18,601 Speaker 1: your head down. I don't know, being a New Yorker 667 00:35:18,641 --> 00:35:21,281 Speaker 1: from just too stupid or too stubborn to give up. 668 00:35:22,241 --> 00:35:24,321 Speaker 1: But you just put your head down and keep going. 669 00:35:24,481 --> 00:35:28,321 Speaker 1: Because when you don't do that, then then there's trouble. 670 00:35:29,641 --> 00:35:32,001 Speaker 1: You have to face it. To me, you had. I 671 00:35:32,121 --> 00:35:36,081 Speaker 1: faced it head on. I threw myself into talking, joining 672 00:35:36,121 --> 00:35:39,041 Speaker 1: a survivor group called Strength to Strength, and it we 673 00:35:39,161 --> 00:35:41,681 Speaker 1: deal with terrorism around the world. We have survivors from 674 00:35:41,721 --> 00:35:45,121 Speaker 1: all over the world, Boston Marathon in Oklahoma City and 675 00:35:45,321 --> 00:35:50,481 Speaker 1: Brussels and UH seven seven in in London, and we 676 00:35:50,481 --> 00:35:54,401 Speaker 1: we can relate people who need help more than I do. 677 00:35:54,521 --> 00:35:56,281 Speaker 1: I think I can handle it a lot better than 678 00:35:56,321 --> 00:35:59,161 Speaker 1: a lot of people did. I don't know why. Maybe 679 00:35:59,201 --> 00:36:02,321 Speaker 1: it's my upbringing of where I was again, the environment 680 00:36:02,401 --> 00:36:06,161 Speaker 1: I was I was raised in. But they like to 681 00:36:06,201 --> 00:36:09,561 Speaker 1: hear someone tell them, you know what, I went through 682 00:36:09,561 --> 00:36:12,361 Speaker 1: this too, and look at me. And the best thing 683 00:36:12,401 --> 00:36:15,121 Speaker 1: you can do is you're gonna get through it, and 684 00:36:15,121 --> 00:36:17,441 Speaker 1: you're gonna turn it around and you're gonna help someone else. 685 00:36:17,481 --> 00:36:19,961 Speaker 1: Because it's the way the world is right now. You know, 686 00:36:20,001 --> 00:36:22,921 Speaker 1: every couple of weeks, something else happens and it's just 687 00:36:22,961 --> 00:36:25,281 Speaker 1: not the trauma of terrorism. It's you know, it could 688 00:36:25,281 --> 00:36:29,521 Speaker 1: be other you know, school shootings or mess shootings or 689 00:36:29,921 --> 00:36:33,361 Speaker 1: anything like that that you know, people get affected. Everyone 690 00:36:33,441 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: is different and everybody has a different way to deal 691 00:36:36,521 --> 00:36:40,521 Speaker 1: with it, and you find your way. But when you 692 00:36:40,561 --> 00:36:43,481 Speaker 1: can relate to other people. It becomes a little I 693 00:36:43,521 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: don't want to say easier, but it becomes a little like, Okay, 694 00:36:46,041 --> 00:36:47,721 Speaker 1: there is a light at the end of that tunnel. 695 00:36:48,081 --> 00:36:50,041 Speaker 1: If this person can do it, I can do it. 696 00:36:51,321 --> 00:36:51,561 Speaker 2: Wow. 697 00:36:53,201 --> 00:36:55,001 Speaker 4: How long did it take you to go back to 698 00:36:55,001 --> 00:36:57,401 Speaker 4: a building, like to step inside a building again. 699 00:36:59,121 --> 00:37:01,761 Speaker 1: I came back down to ground zero three days later 700 00:37:02,641 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: because in my mind, I said, if if I don't 701 00:37:05,521 --> 00:37:07,561 Speaker 1: go back now, I may never want to go back again. 702 00:37:08,241 --> 00:37:10,281 Speaker 1: That's that's just me being That's just me being in 703 00:37:10,321 --> 00:37:13,401 Speaker 1: New Yorker. That's like, no, this is my city. You're 704 00:37:13,521 --> 00:37:16,321 Speaker 1: not taking this away from me. I love I love 705 00:37:16,401 --> 00:37:20,201 Speaker 1: this place. Plus I couldn't really get in. I mean, 706 00:37:20,241 --> 00:37:21,921 Speaker 1: I was all had the bandage on my head and 707 00:37:21,961 --> 00:37:24,681 Speaker 1: everything else, and I was pretty you know, two black eyes. 708 00:37:24,761 --> 00:37:27,401 Speaker 1: I was pretty beat up. But it was like, no, 709 00:37:27,521 --> 00:37:31,521 Speaker 1: I need to go there because people I've lost people. 710 00:37:32,201 --> 00:37:35,881 Speaker 1: I don't like the thought of leaving anybody behind, being 711 00:37:36,081 --> 00:37:40,721 Speaker 1: alive or dead missing. To me, the family is like 712 00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:44,321 Speaker 1: torn you want you can never give up that hope 713 00:37:45,041 --> 00:37:48,721 Speaker 1: if they're missing. But if if you do have something 714 00:37:48,761 --> 00:37:53,521 Speaker 1: definitive with closure, there there is a way that you 715 00:37:53,561 --> 00:37:57,481 Speaker 1: can deal with it better than never not knowing what 716 00:37:57,641 --> 00:38:00,641 Speaker 1: actually happened. You, you know, that nagging thing in the 717 00:38:00,681 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: back of your mind. May be they're somewhere, Maybe they 718 00:38:03,441 --> 00:38:05,641 Speaker 1: were knocked out and brought over to Jerry. Maybe they 719 00:38:05,681 --> 00:38:08,761 Speaker 1: have amnesia. So to me, it was I need to 720 00:38:08,761 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: come here. I need to see for myself what's still here. 721 00:38:13,321 --> 00:38:15,641 Speaker 2: How did the field say in the building's not there anymore? 722 00:38:15,681 --> 00:38:16,641 Speaker 2: How did that feel. 723 00:38:18,281 --> 00:38:24,401 Speaker 1: It? It was kind of looking at it and saying, wow, 724 00:38:24,441 --> 00:38:27,961 Speaker 1: it's a lot smaller than I thought, Like the buildings 725 00:38:27,961 --> 00:38:31,121 Speaker 1: were closer than I thought they were. There was so 726 00:38:31,201 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: much going on construction and you know, hoses to keep 727 00:38:34,961 --> 00:38:39,121 Speaker 1: the dust down from everything, and they were removing things. 728 00:38:39,801 --> 00:38:42,241 Speaker 1: The smell in the air, you know, they had to say. 729 00:38:42,881 --> 00:38:45,921 Speaker 1: They were told tell everybody it's okay. We knew it 730 00:38:45,921 --> 00:38:50,601 Speaker 1: wasn't okay. If you ever touch old coins, you get 731 00:38:50,641 --> 00:38:54,281 Speaker 1: that that smell and that that taste on your hand, 732 00:38:54,361 --> 00:38:58,441 Speaker 1: like a coppery which is like a blood smell. It 733 00:38:58,601 --> 00:39:02,241 Speaker 1: was all over down here. You couldn't get away from 734 00:39:02,281 --> 00:39:05,001 Speaker 1: the smoke. You couldn't get away. But I needed to 735 00:39:05,121 --> 00:39:07,881 Speaker 1: come back here. Yeah, to me, it was part of 736 00:39:08,601 --> 00:39:11,041 Speaker 1: I need to see it. I need to know what 737 00:39:11,321 --> 00:39:14,961 Speaker 1: really happened because again your brain, you know, like how 738 00:39:15,001 --> 00:39:17,801 Speaker 1: do you imagine two buildings collapsing in planes hitting and 739 00:39:17,841 --> 00:39:21,281 Speaker 1: then a third building burning out completely and collapsing, and 740 00:39:21,321 --> 00:39:24,321 Speaker 1: that was fifty four stories building seven, Like that would 741 00:39:24,361 --> 00:39:26,881 Speaker 1: have been the biggest news on a day if it 742 00:39:26,921 --> 00:39:29,761 Speaker 1: wasn't for you know, two one hundred and ten story buildings, 743 00:39:30,121 --> 00:39:33,921 Speaker 1: and then seeing the hotel basically cut in half, and 744 00:39:34,161 --> 00:39:37,161 Speaker 1: like marveling, like I don't know to this day, like 745 00:39:37,201 --> 00:39:38,721 Speaker 1: how did I get out of here? You know what 746 00:39:38,801 --> 00:39:41,921 Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's I don't know how what why? 747 00:39:43,001 --> 00:39:45,441 Speaker 1: You know? Everyone tells me, oh, you're here for a reason. 748 00:39:45,481 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: I always say, don't. I don't need that pressure. Don't 749 00:39:47,441 --> 00:39:49,761 Speaker 1: put that pressure on me, you know. But I got 750 00:39:49,761 --> 00:39:51,521 Speaker 1: to see my daughter be born. I got to see 751 00:39:51,561 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: my son's third birthday plan. You know. I was very 752 00:39:56,481 --> 00:39:58,441 Speaker 1: lucky that that's the only way I could look at it. 753 00:39:59,041 --> 00:40:01,241 Speaker 1: People make a left instead of a right. You know, 754 00:40:01,561 --> 00:40:04,801 Speaker 1: two seconds later I'm not where I'm where I am. 755 00:40:05,121 --> 00:40:08,361 Speaker 1: Second later that thing crushes me. Two seconds later, I'm 756 00:40:08,401 --> 00:40:11,121 Speaker 1: behind me. Maybe I don't I never get out, So 757 00:40:11,441 --> 00:40:13,721 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's always a double edged sword. Survivor's 758 00:40:13,721 --> 00:40:17,921 Speaker 1: guilt but you have to just go on. I mean again, 759 00:40:18,001 --> 00:40:20,401 Speaker 1: the alternative is what. I'm not going to jump off 760 00:40:20,401 --> 00:40:24,081 Speaker 1: a bridge. I'm not to me. You know, people with 761 00:40:24,201 --> 00:40:28,481 Speaker 1: mental problems that think of suicide, I've never thought of that. 762 00:40:28,481 --> 00:40:32,081 Speaker 1: That to me, that from personally, that's my coward's way out, 763 00:40:32,161 --> 00:40:34,081 Speaker 1: Like why would I do that to my family? A 764 00:40:34,161 --> 00:40:37,361 Speaker 1: stigmatism for my kids, like growing up all your farmer killed, 765 00:40:37,521 --> 00:40:39,921 Speaker 1: Like I would never do that to other people in 766 00:40:40,001 --> 00:40:44,041 Speaker 1: my family. I just couldn't, you know. And then to 767 00:40:44,041 --> 00:40:46,081 Speaker 1: this day, my biggest fear is I slip and I 768 00:40:46,121 --> 00:40:48,361 Speaker 1: bang my head on the toilet and I die. And 769 00:40:48,361 --> 00:40:49,881 Speaker 1: I'm like, I got out of nine to eleven and 770 00:40:49,881 --> 00:40:52,441 Speaker 1: here I am, say, find me my pants down on 771 00:40:52,481 --> 00:40:56,401 Speaker 1: a bandom floor. You know, like the indignity of that, 772 00:40:56,521 --> 00:40:59,281 Speaker 1: you know. So that's that's the kind of thoughts that 773 00:40:59,361 --> 00:41:00,641 Speaker 1: run through your mind at this point. 774 00:41:00,761 --> 00:41:03,041 Speaker 4: You know, how long did how long did it take 775 00:41:03,081 --> 00:41:07,521 Speaker 4: you to go into a like into a a building again, 776 00:41:07,881 --> 00:41:08,281 Speaker 4: like did. 777 00:41:08,281 --> 00:41:10,441 Speaker 2: You wake in a building like a store? 778 00:41:10,521 --> 00:41:14,361 Speaker 1: Resident? Yeah? I went In fact, working for the moving 779 00:41:14,401 --> 00:41:17,561 Speaker 1: company that I was, I worked right across the street. 780 00:41:18,081 --> 00:41:20,161 Speaker 1: The buildings or the floors were propped up by two 781 00:41:20,161 --> 00:41:23,561 Speaker 1: by fours. There was no electricity in it. There were 782 00:41:23,601 --> 00:41:26,201 Speaker 1: body parts in it, but we were contracted to go 783 00:41:26,241 --> 00:41:28,961 Speaker 1: in and remove people's laptops, so we had to go 784 00:41:29,001 --> 00:41:32,081 Speaker 1: through the building taking laptops off desks because everybody thought 785 00:41:32,121 --> 00:41:34,241 Speaker 1: they'd be back to work the next day, you know. 786 00:41:36,561 --> 00:41:38,761 Speaker 1: So I got to see the side. I got to 787 00:41:38,801 --> 00:41:42,641 Speaker 1: see what was here and smell it, and to this day, 788 00:41:42,681 --> 00:41:45,401 Speaker 1: I have no fear of buildings. I fly all the 789 00:41:45,441 --> 00:41:48,881 Speaker 1: time with the group I'm a part of, you know. 790 00:41:48,921 --> 00:41:51,841 Speaker 1: I've been to Manchester for their memorial service. I've been 791 00:41:51,841 --> 00:41:56,401 Speaker 1: to London. I've been to you know, Oklahoma City for 792 00:41:56,441 --> 00:41:58,681 Speaker 1: the past twenty five years. Almost we go every year. 793 00:41:58,841 --> 00:42:02,361 Speaker 1: So this wasn't my time. That's the only thing, the 794 00:42:02,401 --> 00:42:05,161 Speaker 1: only way I could deal with it like that, I think, 795 00:42:06,121 --> 00:42:08,081 Speaker 1: I don't want to say it made me stronger here, 796 00:42:08,201 --> 00:42:11,961 Speaker 1: but it made me think about things other than worrying 797 00:42:12,001 --> 00:42:15,001 Speaker 1: about dying. Like I don't wear a wristwatch. My watch 798 00:42:15,001 --> 00:42:18,361 Speaker 1: hangs in the museum. It stopped a couple of minutes 799 00:42:18,441 --> 00:42:20,401 Speaker 1: after the plane hit. I must have banged it somewhere 800 00:42:20,601 --> 00:42:23,961 Speaker 1: and it was covered in blood, you know, and concrete powder, 801 00:42:24,921 --> 00:42:28,081 Speaker 1: and it's for years. The second hand would take the 802 00:42:28,121 --> 00:42:30,521 Speaker 1: twelve and then go back and then finally, you know, 803 00:42:30,561 --> 00:42:33,081 Speaker 1: the battery died and it hangs in the museum. I 804 00:42:33,121 --> 00:42:35,961 Speaker 1: have not worn a wristwatch since that day. You know, 805 00:42:36,001 --> 00:42:38,241 Speaker 1: if I need time, I got it on my phone. 806 00:42:38,281 --> 00:42:40,081 Speaker 1: But it's sort of like, why am I in a 807 00:42:40,161 --> 00:42:42,601 Speaker 1: rush to do anything anymore? Like this is to me, 808 00:42:42,721 --> 00:42:45,681 Speaker 1: this is gravy. This is the cherry on the Sunday 809 00:42:45,681 --> 00:42:48,081 Speaker 1: for me, I'm like, I'm here. You know what am 810 00:42:48,081 --> 00:42:51,121 Speaker 1: I going to ask for? I've hit the lottery? You know, 811 00:42:51,281 --> 00:42:54,841 Speaker 1: one in a million. I went to work like a 812 00:42:54,881 --> 00:42:57,521 Speaker 1: billion people do across this planet. Every day. They get 813 00:42:57,601 --> 00:43:00,521 Speaker 1: up and go to work. By the end of the day, 814 00:43:00,561 --> 00:43:03,681 Speaker 1: I'm one of nineteen people on the planet that experienced something. 815 00:43:03,761 --> 00:43:05,641 Speaker 1: They were only nineteen of us that so by being 816 00:43:05,681 --> 00:43:08,241 Speaker 1: buried under it, like, how do you go from being 817 00:43:08,241 --> 00:43:10,321 Speaker 1: one in a billion to one of nineteen in the 818 00:43:10,361 --> 00:43:13,521 Speaker 1: history of the world. You know, it's kind of overwhelming 819 00:43:13,561 --> 00:43:16,721 Speaker 1: if you think about it that way. But again, you 820 00:43:16,801 --> 00:43:18,561 Speaker 1: just put your head down, you go on. You try 821 00:43:18,561 --> 00:43:22,281 Speaker 1: to help people that need help. That's the only thing 822 00:43:22,321 --> 00:43:22,961 Speaker 1: I can think of. 823 00:43:23,121 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 2: You know, do you still have nightmares? Do you still 824 00:43:25,561 --> 00:43:26,921 Speaker 2: have flashbacks? 825 00:43:27,401 --> 00:43:29,601 Speaker 1: It was never a nightmare. It was sort of like 826 00:43:29,681 --> 00:43:33,321 Speaker 1: a movie that plays over in your head, Okay, every night, 827 00:43:34,361 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: over and over, and the question comes up, why didn't 828 00:43:38,001 --> 00:43:40,001 Speaker 1: you leave right away? You should have known better. Why 829 00:43:40,001 --> 00:43:42,241 Speaker 1: didn't you go in that first stairway. Why didn't you? 830 00:43:42,281 --> 00:43:44,161 Speaker 1: Why didn't you do this? Why did you do this? 831 00:43:44,241 --> 00:43:47,281 Speaker 1: Why didn't you? So that's what I went through for 832 00:43:47,361 --> 00:43:50,321 Speaker 1: years and years. There's not a day that doesn't go 833 00:43:50,361 --> 00:43:53,601 Speaker 1: by that I don't think of this place. Because right 834 00:43:53,601 --> 00:43:56,401 Speaker 1: now i'm actually doing this interview. I'm on the plaza 835 00:43:57,001 --> 00:43:59,481 Speaker 1: right next to the pool where my building stood. Okay, 836 00:44:01,201 --> 00:44:03,721 Speaker 1: there's not a day that goes by because I'm going 837 00:44:03,801 --> 00:44:06,121 Speaker 1: to see a plane flying about my head every day. 838 00:44:06,641 --> 00:44:08,681 Speaker 1: So when I know they're low, I'll put my head 839 00:44:08,721 --> 00:44:10,081 Speaker 1: down and I'll say, I'm not gonna look. I'm not 840 00:44:10,121 --> 00:44:11,601 Speaker 1: gonna look. I'm not gonna look. And then I find 841 00:44:11,601 --> 00:44:15,361 Speaker 1: myself looking at it and I'm like, damn. There are 842 00:44:15,401 --> 00:44:18,441 Speaker 1: certain noises there. If I walk by a construction site, 843 00:44:19,161 --> 00:44:23,841 Speaker 1: you get that concrete powder smell. It'll it'll jaw you back. 844 00:44:23,881 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: There are certain songs that I remember hearing the days 845 00:44:26,521 --> 00:44:29,161 Speaker 1: after nine to eleven that when I hear that song 846 00:44:30,001 --> 00:44:34,041 Speaker 1: it becomes very like, oh, it brings me back to 847 00:44:34,401 --> 00:44:37,641 Speaker 1: you know, where I was, what I was doing there. 848 00:44:37,881 --> 00:44:40,641 Speaker 1: There is the one thing that I've seen that the 849 00:44:40,681 --> 00:44:44,281 Speaker 1: only thing that makes me tear up really is in 850 00:44:44,321 --> 00:44:47,361 Speaker 1: the super Bowl in February of two thousand and two. 851 00:44:47,881 --> 00:44:50,281 Speaker 1: But wise I had a commercial. They've only played it 852 00:44:50,361 --> 00:44:54,841 Speaker 1: once and it's the horses. They come to New York 853 00:44:55,441 --> 00:44:58,401 Speaker 1: and they bring the wagon and they stop over in 854 00:44:58,481 --> 00:45:03,121 Speaker 1: Jersey City and you see the skyline. There's no there's 855 00:45:03,161 --> 00:45:06,681 Speaker 1: no towers there and the whole is bow and even 856 00:45:06,721 --> 00:45:09,281 Speaker 1: now as I think about it, I'm like, but I'm 857 00:45:09,281 --> 00:45:12,081 Speaker 1: not going to lose it here. But that's the only 858 00:45:12,121 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: thing that Mike gets to me, you know, get chokes 859 00:45:14,521 --> 00:45:18,281 Speaker 1: me up a little seeing those forces. But I don't know, 860 00:45:18,321 --> 00:45:19,841 Speaker 1: it's a weird thing. I guess, I don't know. 861 00:45:21,001 --> 00:45:22,281 Speaker 2: How's how's your health now? 862 00:45:23,881 --> 00:45:27,121 Speaker 1: Well? I picked up a cancer about two years ago 863 00:45:27,921 --> 00:45:32,161 Speaker 1: that's related to here. It's a skin cancer. It's treatable, 864 00:45:32,161 --> 00:45:34,681 Speaker 1: but it's not curable. So when I need to get 865 00:45:34,721 --> 00:45:38,121 Speaker 1: something done, they cut, they get the melon baller out 866 00:45:38,121 --> 00:45:40,121 Speaker 1: and they'll take out what they need to do. My 867 00:45:40,321 --> 00:45:43,401 Speaker 1: lungs probably about eighty percent, which is good. But you know, 868 00:45:43,641 --> 00:45:45,681 Speaker 1: I am getting older, so you know, I'll be sixty 869 00:45:45,721 --> 00:45:49,361 Speaker 1: six in March, so it's like, maybe that's the natural progression, 870 00:45:49,761 --> 00:45:53,281 Speaker 1: but otherwise I'm gonna go on doing what I'm doing. 871 00:45:54,241 --> 00:45:57,801 Speaker 1: Retired four years from I retired from the nine eleven 872 00:45:57,841 --> 00:46:02,001 Speaker 1: memorial itself. Well, I had the privilege to work and 873 00:46:02,121 --> 00:46:04,201 Speaker 1: take care of the pools, take care of the grounds. 874 00:46:05,841 --> 00:46:07,601 Speaker 1: When people come here and they see the pictures, I 875 00:46:07,641 --> 00:46:09,961 Speaker 1: always tell them, do you notice something about the pictures 876 00:46:09,961 --> 00:46:12,721 Speaker 1: of the people? And some people get it. They're smiling. 877 00:46:13,361 --> 00:46:15,681 Speaker 1: So I tell people come through the museum, you could 878 00:46:15,681 --> 00:46:19,841 Speaker 1: cry all you want, because we have tissues, plenty of tissues. 879 00:46:19,881 --> 00:46:22,281 Speaker 1: You can wipe your face. But when you get out 880 00:46:22,281 --> 00:46:24,721 Speaker 1: of here and you go on that street, you smile, 881 00:46:24,881 --> 00:46:27,041 Speaker 1: You take a deep breath, and you live your life. 882 00:46:28,081 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: And when people see, like everyone knows how everyone died here, 883 00:46:33,681 --> 00:46:35,601 Speaker 1: You see it on the video, you see it on TV. 884 00:46:36,201 --> 00:46:38,321 Speaker 1: What you don't know till you come here is we 885 00:46:38,481 --> 00:46:42,161 Speaker 1: showed you how people live their lives on those pictures. 886 00:46:42,601 --> 00:46:47,001 Speaker 1: And it's much more important to be remembered how you 887 00:46:47,081 --> 00:46:50,681 Speaker 1: lived than how you died. Go let people take your picture, 888 00:46:50,801 --> 00:46:53,481 Speaker 1: because when you're gone, you want someone to open up 889 00:46:53,481 --> 00:46:55,801 Speaker 1: a photo album and they see you dancing at your 890 00:46:55,961 --> 00:46:59,321 Speaker 1: kid's wedding, or holding your child, or running a marathon, 891 00:46:59,441 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: playing soccer, and they're gonna smile. It's not your name 892 00:47:03,041 --> 00:47:05,561 Speaker 1: on a stone or a piece of wood, a picture 893 00:47:05,601 --> 00:47:10,001 Speaker 1: of you living your life, not being buried under a stone. 894 00:47:10,361 --> 00:47:12,281 Speaker 1: Much much more important to be remembered that way. 895 00:47:13,321 --> 00:47:13,961 Speaker 2: That's correct. 896 00:47:14,361 --> 00:47:15,961 Speaker 3: Well, I just want to I just want to say 897 00:47:16,401 --> 00:47:19,761 Speaker 3: I'm so privileged to have you come on my podcast 898 00:47:20,241 --> 00:47:23,721 Speaker 3: and talk and share your story with me, because, as 899 00:47:23,761 --> 00:47:27,201 Speaker 3: I said, when I seen the article, and I've seen 900 00:47:27,201 --> 00:47:30,441 Speaker 3: a few articles when I researched you, I wanted you 901 00:47:30,481 --> 00:47:33,321 Speaker 3: on the podcast to share this story with Australia, with 902 00:47:33,441 --> 00:47:35,201 Speaker 3: all my listeners, and I'm grateful for that. 903 00:47:35,321 --> 00:47:38,521 Speaker 1: Tom Well, thank you, and a big shout out to 904 00:47:38,641 --> 00:47:40,721 Speaker 1: Christie who did all the legwork for this. 905 00:47:41,241 --> 00:47:43,921 Speaker 2: Thank you for Christy. 906 00:47:43,401 --> 00:47:48,481 Speaker 1: I'm a dinosaur when it comes to all this technology stuff. Like, 907 00:47:48,521 --> 00:47:50,561 Speaker 1: to me, a phone is still someone to talk to 908 00:47:50,601 --> 00:47:53,121 Speaker 1: someone on. You know, I don't have the thumbs of 909 00:47:53,121 --> 00:47:57,241 Speaker 1: a twelve year old to communicate all the time. Christie's 910 00:47:57,241 --> 00:48:01,441 Speaker 1: the best. She's gonna help me actually write a book. 911 00:48:02,841 --> 00:48:05,241 Speaker 1: It's been a you know, it's been a while. I 912 00:48:05,321 --> 00:48:09,281 Speaker 1: made a lot of friends, and hopefully there is you know, 913 00:48:09,321 --> 00:48:11,881 Speaker 1: a movie in the works, which was supposed to be 914 00:48:11,921 --> 00:48:14,881 Speaker 1: out by the twentieth, but COVID shut everything down, hopefully 915 00:48:14,881 --> 00:48:18,041 Speaker 1: by the twenty fifth, but I still hear that it's 916 00:48:18,081 --> 00:48:23,161 Speaker 1: still too recent, you know, twenty five years I think 917 00:48:23,961 --> 00:48:26,681 Speaker 1: is a good amount of time. Yeah, people need to 918 00:48:26,721 --> 00:48:30,601 Speaker 1: know the story because it's estimated one third of the 919 00:48:30,641 --> 00:48:33,761 Speaker 1: world wasn't even alive at this time, like twenty three 920 00:48:33,801 --> 00:48:37,241 Speaker 1: years ago, you know, and even not just survivors, but 921 00:48:37,281 --> 00:48:40,121 Speaker 1: family members who come here every year for the event. 922 00:48:40,561 --> 00:48:43,041 Speaker 1: There's less and less because you know, people pass away, 923 00:48:43,121 --> 00:48:46,321 Speaker 1: people move. The twenty fifth will be the next big one. 924 00:48:46,881 --> 00:48:49,001 Speaker 3: I'm gratefully you came on. I had to share your story. 925 00:48:49,041 --> 00:48:51,761 Speaker 3: Tom and I will keep in touch. That's one hundred 926 00:48:51,761 --> 00:48:52,081 Speaker 3: percent