WEBVTT - 1. My Sisters Secrets 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Appoche production. 0:00:12.361 --> 0:00:17.561 Thought'll be right. That's the sound of our doorbell at 0:00:17.561 --> 0:00:20.761 our studios in Brisbane, Australia. It's where we got to 0:00:20.801 --> 0:00:25.281 sit down and meet Ryan Whitwell Dwyer for the first time. 0:00:26.121 --> 0:00:28.601 It's a Saturday morning and Ryan has flown back to 0:00:28.681 --> 0:00:32.401 Brisbane to spend the weekend with me recording his story. 0:00:32.801 --> 0:00:35.521 It wasn't the first time we'd met. We'd had a 0:00:35.521 --> 0:00:38.521 few calls and I'd also travel with Sydney to meet up. 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.800 When you're sitting down with someone about to tell you 0:00:41.961 --> 0:00:44.681 the sort of story Ryan's got, there's a level of 0:00:44.681 --> 0:00:48.401 trust and comfort that you need to build first telling 0:00:48.441 --> 0:00:48.881 you who you are. 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:54.520 So I'm right, and I live in Sydney and director 0:00:54.521 --> 0:00:57.241 of events for a luxury hotel in Sydney, which is 0:00:57.321 --> 0:00:59.601 very cool, a lot of fun. I'm thirty two, thirty 0:00:59.601 --> 0:01:03.200 two in August, I should say should age myself. Mum 0:01:03.281 --> 0:01:05.401 lives on the Gold Coast. Dad also lives on the 0:01:05.401 --> 0:01:10.200 Gast no longer together. I'm single and loving it. And 0:01:10.721 --> 0:01:12.761 obviously we know where my sister is. 0:01:14.521 --> 0:01:17.280 If the title of the podcast hasn't already given it away, 0:01:17.401 --> 0:01:23.720 Ryan's sister, Britney Dwyer, is a murderer. She's currently in jail, 0:01:23.961 --> 0:01:26.401 and so was the person that helped her with the killing. 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.560 Britney rang the doorbell of her grandfather's house in Adelaide 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.600 back in May of twenty sixteen, and he led her in. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.681 She stayed for breakfast, looked at family photos, and then 0:01:40.721 --> 0:01:43.000 on her way out to the front door, she took 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.321 a knife that she had had hidden in her sleeve 0:01:46.681 --> 0:01:48.841 and stabbed her own grandfather to death. 0:01:53.161 --> 0:01:56.841 It was my dad, my daughter killed you today. The 0:01:56.841 --> 0:02:00.881 Whitwell family, including the killer's mother Tanya, banded together to 0:02:00.921 --> 0:02:03.001 see Britney Dwyer jailed for life. 0:02:03.241 --> 0:02:06.880 Very very difficult and really smeshed yourself. 0:02:07.721 --> 0:02:12.321 The murder was brutal, callous, cold blooded and dispassionately planned. 0:02:12.561 --> 0:02:16.441 Could she just be pure, cold, hard evil? 0:02:16.921 --> 0:02:20.520 Hi? My name is Ryan and my sister murdered my grandfather. 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:29.520 What are the signs that I missed? Family life was good? 0:02:30.001 --> 0:02:33.401 You know growing up, my dad worked incredibly hard. My 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:38.441 mum was a stayed home mum looked after us. You know, 0:02:38.921 --> 0:02:41.681 Breakfast was ready at seven am every single day, you know, 0:02:41.761 --> 0:02:45.481 it was it was a normal family unit. You know. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:49.241 My parents were pretty strict, tried to always keep us 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.441 on the straight and narrow when you right from wrong. 0:02:51.721 --> 0:02:54.201 And it was really sort of instilled in us that 0:02:54.561 --> 0:02:56.601 we need to be something in this world in order 0:02:56.641 --> 0:02:59.481 to you know, give back to the community as well 0:02:59.481 --> 0:03:02.281 as to be successful. And I think because we didn't 0:03:02.361 --> 0:03:03.881 have a lot of money growing up, I think it 0:03:03.921 --> 0:03:07.161 was really important that was instilled in us from a 0:03:07.281 --> 0:03:07.921 very early age. 0:03:07.921 --> 0:03:09.441 Who are we talking about when we say us, my 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.841 sister and I that was the family unit. Mum and dad. 0:03:12.001 --> 0:03:14.081 Yeah, Mum and dad and Brittany and I. Yeah. 0:03:14.321 --> 0:03:15.081 Where'd you grow up? 0:03:15.641 --> 0:03:20.641 We grew up in bin Lee in which is sort 0:03:20.641 --> 0:03:23.001 of in between the Gold Coast and Brisbane. Not the 0:03:23.041 --> 0:03:26.960 best part of Queensland, that's for sure. Growing up we 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:30.840 were actually renting a house in Mountwarren Park, little three 0:03:30.881 --> 0:03:35.121 bedroom place, one bathroom, was very small, big backyard though. 0:03:35.201 --> 0:03:38.281 We went to public school, so I went to Mount 0:03:38.321 --> 0:03:41.841 Warren Park State School and then moved through to a 0:03:41.881 --> 0:03:44.881 Window Primary. My sister was the same, She went to 0:03:44.921 --> 0:03:47.801 Windrew Primary the whole way through. There's about a five 0:03:47.881 --> 0:03:52.281 years difference between her and I. So when I was 0:03:52.321 --> 0:03:55.160 sort of leaving primary school, she was still very early 0:03:55.321 --> 0:03:58.921 days in primary school and when I was leaving high school. 0:03:58.921 --> 0:04:01.161 She had only just entered into high school. 0:04:01.481 --> 0:04:03.841 We like big brother for her big brother. 0:04:03.921 --> 0:04:08.681 Yeah, okay, I wouldn't say we were overly close when 0:04:08.761 --> 0:04:11.641 we were younger. I think again that five year age gap. 0:04:12.281 --> 0:04:15.001 We were always in two different parts of our life, 0:04:15.921 --> 0:04:18.440 but you know, still very much looked out for each other, 0:04:19.361 --> 0:04:21.600 still hung out a lot, you know, did all the 0:04:21.641 --> 0:04:26.001 siblingly things. Obviously, the little sister is always annoying, so 0:04:27.081 --> 0:04:30.561 push her away when you can. But certainly when we 0:04:31.121 --> 0:04:33.481 when I got into high school, and I think, you know, 0:04:33.641 --> 0:04:36.041 I was starting to learn to drive, and I think 0:04:36.041 --> 0:04:38.200 that opened our world up a little bit more. I 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.041 was the cool older brother with the car. So yeah, 0:04:41.041 --> 0:04:44.561 but she went to a private school. The best times 0:04:44.561 --> 0:04:48.041 that I can remember was, you know, from from my 0:04:48.121 --> 0:04:51.201 childhood as well. You know, I remember we had a 0:04:51.401 --> 0:04:54.640 My parents had a great close knit group of friends too, 0:04:54.641 --> 0:04:56.760 and I would often say that, you know, my mum's 0:04:56.801 --> 0:04:59.081 best friend is like my second mother. It was very 0:05:00.281 --> 0:05:04.440 just like a normal living experience. The only I guess 0:05:04.521 --> 0:05:08.241 bad thing was that my grandfather lived in South Australia 0:05:09.401 --> 0:05:12.001 and so that was quite a quite a distance flight 0:05:12.041 --> 0:05:15.321 to wen't cheap back then. Yeah, and a little irregular. 0:05:17.001 --> 0:05:19.401 And yes, so we didn't really get to travel all 0:05:19.401 --> 0:05:19.760 that much. 0:05:20.601 --> 0:05:24.201 Ryan and Britney's grandfather was called Robert Whitwell. He seemed 0:05:24.241 --> 0:05:26.681 like a nice old man from the photos that I've seen, 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.561 gray hair, slight build, and a big smile. Reminds me 0:05:30.601 --> 0:05:33.760 a little bit of my own pop. I can tell you, 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.961 if you're leading to conclusions about why Britney stabbed her 0:05:36.961 --> 0:05:40.400 grandfather to death, maybe he was holding a secret of 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.361 some sort. That's an assumption that's completely incorrect. 0:05:44.841 --> 0:05:47.400 It's insidious that a man who's been murdered should have 0:05:47.481 --> 0:05:51.161 his reputation besmirched in that manner. He said, mister Whitwell 0:05:51.281 --> 0:05:53.841 wasn't here to defend himself, and that the claims were 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:54.840 simply an invention. 0:05:55.681 --> 0:06:05.361 The reason for Britney stabbing her granddad were much simpler. 0:06:05.561 --> 0:06:08.600 Robert had always lived in Adelaide. It was Ryan's mum, 0:06:08.841 --> 0:06:11.601 who is Robert's daughter, who wanted to taste of the 0:06:11.641 --> 0:06:14.281 big smoke, so she left her home of Adelaide and 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.041 moved up to the Gold Coast. But Ryan and Britney's 0:06:17.041 --> 0:06:20.281 granddad always stayed close to the grandkids. 0:06:21.201 --> 0:06:24.561 I do remember one particular holiday though, that my mom 0:06:24.761 --> 0:06:27.280 and my dad actually hired a car and we drove 0:06:27.361 --> 0:06:31.041 to South Australia from Queensland, which is a long drive. 0:06:31.121 --> 0:06:34.641 It's like a twenty three twenty four hour drive Australia and. 0:06:34.601 --> 0:06:36.241 If you're doing it Australia, and I think they did, 0:06:36.361 --> 0:06:39.721 I think they just swapped drivers. Were there within like 0:06:40.121 --> 0:06:43.041 a day, a full twenty four hour period. But as 0:06:43.081 --> 0:06:46.161 I got older, I loved flying down there. I would 0:06:46.161 --> 0:06:49.081 actually save up money and fly down in school holidays myself, 0:06:49.121 --> 0:06:51.521 and it's been all school holidays there. 0:06:52.081 --> 0:06:57.081 And so when your granddad passed, his fourth wife was living. 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.080 With him or not, no, not at the time. She 0:06:59.521 --> 0:07:04.201 unfortunately suffered from dementia, so she lived in a home nearby. 0:07:04.761 --> 0:07:07.401 She was falling over and whatnot, and she was he 0:07:07.761 --> 0:07:09.921 couldn't pick her up anymore when she would fall over, 0:07:10.241 --> 0:07:13.081 and it just got a bit difficult. So he moved 0:07:13.081 --> 0:07:16.641 her into the closest home to his home that he could, 0:07:16.761 --> 0:07:18.961 and every day, like clockwork, he went and visited terr 0:07:19.001 --> 0:07:19.681 at three o'clock. 0:07:20.041 --> 0:07:23.081 What was the relationship like with your grandparents in the 0:07:23.161 --> 0:07:25.601 whole family? And I guess what I'm looking for here 0:07:25.721 --> 0:07:28.921 is the relationship between you, Brittany and your grandparents and 0:07:29.121 --> 0:07:31.081 in particularly your granddad, what was that relationship? 0:07:31.161 --> 0:07:34.721 Like, honestly great. My grandfather was that type of person 0:07:34.761 --> 0:07:37.721 that you could always call. You know, you might get 0:07:37.761 --> 0:07:40.201 a lecture about something, but you know, he would always 0:07:40.241 --> 0:07:43.081 be there to support you. He would do anything for 0:07:43.161 --> 0:07:47.161 his grandkids. He was a very proud family man. He 0:07:47.321 --> 0:07:51.321 loved the idea of lineage and that you knew where 0:07:51.321 --> 0:07:54.201 your family came from and you know, would drive down 0:07:54.281 --> 0:07:58.521 Adelaide for example, or you know, we're flown he'd pick 0:07:58.561 --> 0:08:01.361 me up from the airport and before we go home, 0:08:01.441 --> 0:08:05.041 we'd go down every street that any family member lived 0:08:04.841 --> 0:08:07.521 on and you'd get the full history lesson. I can 0:08:07.561 --> 0:08:11.281 go back probably four or five generations past before him. 0:08:11.521 --> 0:08:11.921 Wow. 0:08:12.361 --> 0:08:14.961 So yeah, he was a really proud man. There's actually 0:08:15.001 --> 0:08:17.921 one particular one I remember. I mean, my sister probably 0:08:17.921 --> 0:08:19.961 wouldn't remember, but she was on the a baby at 0:08:19.961 --> 0:08:22.561 the time. But we were all at the house in 0:08:22.721 --> 0:08:25.281 matt Warren Park and they had flown up and they 0:08:25.321 --> 0:08:27.441 were doing like this big holiday and they were staying 0:08:27.441 --> 0:08:29.801 with us for a while. And I think they were 0:08:29.881 --> 0:08:32.161 up because my mother had just given birth to Brittany, 0:08:32.721 --> 0:08:36.761 and I just remember very clearly that she was like 0:08:36.801 --> 0:08:40.681 in her bassinet and we were just all one big 0:08:40.681 --> 0:08:42.841 family unit. And I think it was the first time 0:08:42.881 --> 0:08:45.161 that I come to grips that, like, I have a sister, 0:08:45.841 --> 0:08:47.361 And I think that was a really nice moment. And 0:08:47.361 --> 0:08:49.761 I actually think it's on camera somewhere too. Funny. 0:08:50.361 --> 0:08:52.841 One of those family moments is in a few of 0:08:52.841 --> 0:08:55.601 the photos that Ryan sent me of some happier times. 0:08:56.001 --> 0:08:58.361 It's a picture of the family sitting in the house 0:08:58.401 --> 0:09:02.201 in Adelaide on an old fabric couch. There's a knitted 0:09:02.241 --> 0:09:05.161 quilt on the table and Ryan sitting on his and 0:09:05.281 --> 0:09:09.161 his knee with his granddad close by. His pop is 0:09:09.201 --> 0:09:12.921 wearing thick rim glasses and holding a video camera which 0:09:12.961 --> 0:09:15.921 looks like it's brand new, and Ryan looks like he's 0:09:15.921 --> 0:09:19.001 about four years old. It's a year or so later 0:09:19.401 --> 0:09:23.241 that his sister, Brittany is born. Let's talk about Brittany 0:09:23.401 --> 0:09:26.521 for a minute. What was she like at school. 0:09:26.441 --> 0:09:32.601 Through primary school? I would say pretty pretty normal, tomboyish, 0:09:32.841 --> 0:09:39.281 love sport, you know, very energetic, very mouthy, very mouthy. 0:09:39.441 --> 0:09:41.961 She she wasn't afraid to let you know what she thought. 0:09:42.601 --> 0:09:46.321 You used to fight a lot before your dad got 0:09:46.401 --> 0:09:50.281 home from work. You know, between three and five pms. 0:09:50.561 --> 0:09:55.201 You both used to just fight and argue and bicker 0:09:55.601 --> 0:09:59.041 and pick on each other, and that you're striving up 0:09:59.081 --> 0:09:59.841 there every day. 0:10:00.241 --> 0:10:04.161 Because we were about five years apart, we were in 0:10:04.281 --> 0:10:09.401 such different stages about life all the time. You know, 0:10:09.481 --> 0:10:11.841 I was always that older brother, but not like I 0:10:11.841 --> 0:10:13.961 look at other friends that have, you know, one or 0:10:13.961 --> 0:10:15.681 two years apart, and they all seem to be a 0:10:15.681 --> 0:10:18.161 little bit closer. But I was. You know, I was 0:10:18.161 --> 0:10:20.361 already in high school and she was in primary school, 0:10:20.441 --> 0:10:24.161 and I think, you know, different music tastes and just 0:10:24.201 --> 0:10:26.921 even different maturity. So we did get on each other's 0:10:26.921 --> 0:10:30.481 nerves a lot in the earlier stage, I do, I 0:10:30.601 --> 0:10:34.921 do remember that. And then as we grew older, we 0:10:35.001 --> 0:10:37.001 became quite close. You know. 0:10:37.881 --> 0:10:39.321 She loved hanging out with you. 0:10:39.761 --> 0:10:42.441 Yeah, yeah, which was nice, Like we're able to drive 0:10:42.481 --> 0:10:45.561 around the city and go get dinner and you know, 0:10:45.961 --> 0:10:48.041 go to shows and stuff because you know, as an 0:10:48.041 --> 0:10:50.121 adult you've sort of got the means to do that. 0:10:50.401 --> 0:10:54.521 You were so different. She was pretty sporty, you know, 0:10:54.641 --> 0:10:57.681 riding a scooter, riding a bike, where you didn't like 0:10:57.801 --> 0:10:59.921 any of that, you know, you didn't want to play 0:11:00.321 --> 0:11:04.161 footy or cricket or anything like that, and she was 0:11:04.241 --> 0:11:08.241 the sporty one. So the interests were very different, weren't they. 0:11:08.641 --> 0:11:11.921 That other voice you hear is Ryan and Britney's mum, Tanya. 0:11:12.361 --> 0:11:14.561 It's all still a bit raw for Tanya, so with 0:11:14.601 --> 0:11:17.121 her permission, we were able to record a chat with 0:11:17.201 --> 0:11:20.601 her and Ryan for use in the podcast. In future episodes, 0:11:20.641 --> 0:11:22.921 we'll have a deeper chat with Tanya, but for now, 0:11:23.161 --> 0:11:25.401 it's important to get the background of what the family 0:11:25.521 --> 0:11:28.201 was like when it was all a little bit more normal. 0:11:28.761 --> 0:11:31.761 It was different. When Brittany was in primary school, Ryan 0:11:31.841 --> 0:11:34.121 told me that she had a strong friend group. 0:11:34.721 --> 0:11:37.241 She had a lot of friends and particularly really good 0:11:37.281 --> 0:11:41.521 with people of need as well. Okay, so I remember 0:11:42.121 --> 0:11:44.201 she used to hang around with this guy. His name 0:11:44.201 --> 0:11:49.201 was Sam and he was disabled and they became great friends, 0:11:49.201 --> 0:11:53.161 so very very nurturing, and I think was really good 0:11:53.201 --> 0:11:56.641 with you know, bullying situations where you know, they might 0:11:56.681 --> 0:11:59.001 pick on him and you know, she stood up for him. 0:11:59.041 --> 0:12:01.241 And yeah, she had quite a large group. But then 0:12:02.201 --> 0:12:04.721 as she sort of moved into like that year seven 0:12:05.521 --> 0:12:09.361 time frame, she started to shift a little bit, she 0:12:09.481 --> 0:12:13.801 would start bullying a little bit, and she seemed really down, 0:12:14.001 --> 0:12:16.281 and then we sort of figured out that she was 0:12:16.601 --> 0:12:17.321 self harmy. 0:12:17.761 --> 0:12:21.081 Was she bullying others or others bullying her bullying her? 0:12:21.361 --> 0:12:24.361 At the beginning, we didn't really know a great deal 0:12:24.401 --> 0:12:27.281 at the time yet started to really get picked on, 0:12:29.001 --> 0:12:32.521 and back then schools were pretty blacks with it all, 0:12:32.761 --> 0:12:35.681 so we weren't really getting fed any information, but we 0:12:35.801 --> 0:12:38.081 since found out it was you know, it was quite bad. 0:12:38.681 --> 0:12:40.601 What sort of things would they What have you found 0:12:40.601 --> 0:12:42.441 out about that bullying at the time, Well. 0:12:42.281 --> 0:12:45.041 At the time, because she was a real tomboy, I 0:12:45.041 --> 0:12:48.041 think she was getting sort of picked on about potentially being, 0:12:48.281 --> 0:12:52.161 you know, a lesbian. I think year five, year six. 0:12:52.201 --> 0:12:55.681 As your body starts to change, she became a bit bigger. 0:12:56.201 --> 0:12:59.521 People would obviously pick on her about her weight, and 0:12:59.641 --> 0:13:03.761 just because she she was sort of obsessed with looking 0:13:03.801 --> 0:13:06.081 a bit rough and tumble as well at the time, 0:13:06.561 --> 0:13:09.641 so you know, she chopped a full hair, to my 0:13:09.721 --> 0:13:12.841 mum's dismay, and so I think people started really picking 0:13:12.841 --> 0:13:14.801 on her. She looked a bit boyish. 0:13:15.321 --> 0:13:20.441 It probably started with Sam. You know that the fact 0:13:20.481 --> 0:13:24.361 that she was sticking up to the bullies for him, 0:13:25.081 --> 0:13:27.841 and then she sort of found oh, all that works, 0:13:28.041 --> 0:13:30.481 so you know, you can't pick on me because I'd 0:13:30.481 --> 0:13:33.801 just use that same defense. And then she did turn 0:13:33.841 --> 0:13:36.881 into the bully later on in the high school year. 0:13:37.481 --> 0:13:39.801 When did the worry start to kick in for you? 0:13:40.001 --> 0:13:42.801 I don't know if I really did worry about her 0:13:42.961 --> 0:13:48.441 so much. She she was so secretive. She wouldn't tell 0:13:48.481 --> 0:13:52.561 me anything, even though we were pretty close. You know, 0:13:52.841 --> 0:13:55.481 when we lived out at Jim Boomber, I used to 0:13:55.561 --> 0:13:59.081 take a week off work every holiday, so I was 0:13:59.161 --> 0:14:02.121 home with her in the holidays. We could go out 0:14:02.161 --> 0:14:07.241 and do things together with down at Adelaide, So we 0:14:07.241 --> 0:14:11.521 were pretty close. But she just wouldn't tell me anything. 0:14:11.681 --> 0:14:15.961 And I didn't really think anything was wrong. She only 0:14:16.001 --> 0:14:19.241 had a couple of close friends in high school that 0:14:19.281 --> 0:14:20.601 she would talk to me about. 0:14:21.241 --> 0:14:25.041 To call teenage moodiness, right, yeah, I thought exactly. 0:14:25.921 --> 0:14:29.161 And I thought the way I was with my dad 0:14:29.161 --> 0:14:31.841 when I was growing up, I didn't tell him anything, 0:14:32.441 --> 0:14:36.001 and you know, I didn't ask him anything, just assume 0:14:36.121 --> 0:14:39.561 that she would be the same. And you know, I 0:14:39.641 --> 0:14:42.481 really didn't push the fact. I thought she would talk 0:14:42.561 --> 0:14:46.881 to me if she ever had to, But even with her, 0:14:47.601 --> 0:14:50.801 you know, being gay or bye or whatever she was, 0:14:51.281 --> 0:14:54.201 she would never actually say it. And I would say 0:14:54.201 --> 0:14:58.001 to her, well, we know Ryan's gay. Ryan come out 0:14:58.041 --> 0:15:01.201 and told me that he's gay, excepted that why can't 0:15:01.321 --> 0:15:03.481 you tell me if you were? Because I don't know 0:15:04.321 --> 0:15:09.481 could she tell? And she still wouldn't very secretly. 0:15:09.641 --> 0:15:13.161 She always was like in high school, definitely, I think 0:15:13.721 --> 0:15:17.161 the bullying sort of switched. She sort of became the bully. 0:15:17.601 --> 0:15:20.681 And with that, you know, there was self harming and whatnot. 0:15:20.761 --> 0:15:23.681 But yeah, then the email stage certainly kicked in. 0:15:24.081 --> 0:15:26.601 How did you find out about the self harm or 0:15:26.681 --> 0:15:27.521 your parents find out? 0:15:28.121 --> 0:15:30.601 Actually I found out first again when she was in 0:15:30.641 --> 0:15:32.721 high school. I was already out of high school. So 0:15:32.761 --> 0:15:35.361 she would stay over my house a lot. I lived 0:15:35.361 --> 0:15:38.641 in Karendale in Brisbane, so not that far away, and 0:15:39.601 --> 0:15:41.881 she would should come over and should stay the weekend, 0:15:42.001 --> 0:15:44.761 would go and do things, and I just remember I 0:15:44.841 --> 0:15:47.721 was in the lounde room and she was wearing these 0:15:47.921 --> 0:15:51.801 denim shorts and her shorts sort of slipped up further 0:15:52.321 --> 0:15:56.641 above the knee, and I just remember catching what looked 0:15:56.681 --> 0:15:59.921 like to me like a spiderweb, that makes sense. It 0:16:00.001 --> 0:16:07.281 was just this entanglement of one hundreds of slices all 0:16:07.321 --> 0:16:10.481 over her left leg, and I just immediately went, what 0:16:10.641 --> 0:16:16.441 is that? And she just yanked her pants like down 0:16:16.521 --> 0:16:18.921 to cover it and just would not talk about it. 0:16:19.201 --> 0:16:21.721 She's like, oh, I fell over. I said, that is 0:16:21.761 --> 0:16:25.401 not falling over, and she just would not go into 0:16:25.441 --> 0:16:27.721 it at all, to the point that you know, I 0:16:27.761 --> 0:16:30.121 probably pressed a little bit too hard, but you know, 0:16:30.201 --> 0:16:31.921 she burst into tears and I said, I need to 0:16:31.921 --> 0:16:34.961 know what's going on. And at that point our relationship 0:16:35.081 --> 0:16:38.161 was really quite close. Again that five year gap. I 0:16:38.201 --> 0:16:41.641 think really when I had left high school, created more 0:16:41.721 --> 0:16:43.881 like of an adult bond, you know, I had the 0:16:43.961 --> 0:16:47.681 means to turk her out for you know, dinners and 0:16:47.721 --> 0:16:49.681 would go around the city and all of that sort 0:16:49.681 --> 0:16:52.241 of stuff. So I think we became I became less 0:16:53.121 --> 0:16:55.721 cool brother and more adulty. And I think as soon 0:16:55.761 --> 0:16:59.761 as I talked to her about that, leg just closed up, 0:17:00.201 --> 0:17:02.401 would not talk about it. And then I obviously told 0:17:02.441 --> 0:17:03.841 my parents about it. 0:17:03.961 --> 0:17:04.681 Have they react. 0:17:05.801 --> 0:17:13.641 Mum was shocked. I think she knew that potentially there 0:17:13.761 --> 0:17:16.600 was self harming in the past. There was a situation 0:17:16.761 --> 0:17:21.080 actually where and I slipped walked as a child so 0:17:21.201 --> 0:17:23.361 I sort of put it down to that. But one 0:17:23.441 --> 0:17:25.400 day I was sort of I was in our shower 0:17:25.441 --> 0:17:28.241 and my sister and I shared a bathroom, and I 0:17:28.321 --> 0:17:33.480 noticed that there was my razor shoved down the drain 0:17:33.761 --> 0:17:36.961 of the shower, and I sort of pulled it out, 0:17:36.961 --> 0:17:40.360 and I thought, that's really odd. What is that doing 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.400 down there. I sort of put it down to I 0:17:44.441 --> 0:17:46.761 was doing really weird things in my sleep, So maybe 0:17:46.801 --> 0:17:49.321 that's just something that I did. And I look back 0:17:49.360 --> 0:17:51.201 at that now, and my mum and I have spoken 0:17:51.241 --> 0:17:54.561 about this that I think that was there very much 0:17:54.561 --> 0:17:59.160 for a purpose, and yeah, I think it was happening 0:17:59.241 --> 0:18:00.161 long before we knew. 0:18:07.681 --> 0:18:10.840 In the court sentencing of Brittany and her co accused 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.960 back in twenty seventeen, the judge also made remarks of 0:18:15.001 --> 0:18:20.241 Britney's past. Britney was convicted of murder at the age 0:18:20.241 --> 0:18:24.081 of twenty. She committed that murder the murder of her 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:28.481 granddad at nineteen. We've used an AI voice to read 0:18:28.561 --> 0:18:30.640 part of the summary of the judge's comment. 0:18:31.921 --> 0:18:36.120 Having suffered from a conduct disorder since your childhood, involving 0:18:36.360 --> 0:18:41.561 behavioral disturbance, aggression and violence beginning in primary school and 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.801 continuing throughout your teenage years. 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.680 When Ryan was a kid, their parents didn't have much money, 0:18:47.201 --> 0:18:50.400 but as the family business started taking off, things got 0:18:50.481 --> 0:18:53.360 a little more flush. Britney was moved from a public 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.120 school to a private school, and it's about this time 0:18:56.241 --> 0:18:59.001 that things start going downhill. 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:06.160 Withdrawing very moody. How did that show up agression? It was, 0:19:08.041 --> 0:19:12.080 It's sort of hard to pinpoint exactly, but just very 0:19:12.120 --> 0:19:17.360 withdrawn from the family and friends. Didn't really seem to 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:21.720 have many friends at that time, you know, we, like 0:19:21.761 --> 0:19:24.241 I said earlier, we knew a lot of her friends. 0:19:24.281 --> 0:19:26.721 We knew their names. You know, they'd go to parties, 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:29.481 your birthday party is that sort of thing, and then 0:19:29.481 --> 0:19:32.441 it all just sort of stopped and we'd maybe hear 0:19:32.521 --> 0:19:36.041 one person's name or barely get a conversation out of her. 0:19:36.681 --> 0:19:40.400 She's very close to my dad though, but just kept 0:19:40.441 --> 0:19:46.761 to herself. Clothes changed, really got into Lady Gaga funny enough, 0:19:48.041 --> 0:19:52.880 I think she really loved the whole your Different message, 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:58.321 that whole little Monster's thing that Lady Gaga calls them, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.080 and really started to get quite obsessed with that. 0:20:02.561 --> 0:20:06.080 This is the manifesto little Monster. 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.161 When they're young, little monsters learn. 0:20:10.041 --> 0:20:17.840 That they are scary, ugly, stupid, uned by cupid. 0:20:18.281 --> 0:20:19.641 Oh boyd. 0:20:22.921 --> 0:20:24.840 But every monster needs to. 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:32.400 Find that secret de Brownside, the transform doctor Jack gone 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.121 into second. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:40.840 You said she was she was close to your dad. 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:43.280 How did that show up and what did that look like? 0:20:43.441 --> 0:20:49.561 They would do a lot together, fishing, you know, rough howls, 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.480 make jokes, watch some sort of shows, you know, just 0:20:54.561 --> 0:20:56.001 generally hang out. 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:58.681 Did she have a partner of boyfriend girlfriend. You talked 0:20:58.721 --> 0:21:02.200 earlier that she was being bullied for possibly liking the 0:21:02.201 --> 0:21:05.561 same sex her sexuality at that point? Was that a question? 0:21:06.201 --> 0:21:10.680 No, Actually, it really wasn't. Going through primary school and 0:21:10.801 --> 0:21:15.440 high school, you know, she really took an interest into guys. 0:21:16.120 --> 0:21:19.680 She would talk about how guys were attractive, and you know, 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.561 river boys from home and away and that sort of thing. 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.401 So no, it never really came into question until when 0:21:26.441 --> 0:21:28.681 she left high school. And then you know, we knew 0:21:28.681 --> 0:21:33.080 about Shelby, and then that was sort of advancing. But 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.921 it was never really spoken about, not because we didn't 0:21:36.921 --> 0:21:39.441 want to talk about it, because she never really wanted 0:21:39.481 --> 0:21:40.081 to bring it up. 0:21:40.281 --> 0:21:41.801 When did she leave school? 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:42.681 She finished at twelve? 0:21:42.761 --> 0:21:44.960 Okay, did you ever talk to her about her dreams 0:21:44.961 --> 0:21:46.561 and aspirations of what she wanted to do. 0:21:46.921 --> 0:21:51.321 Definitely, I think my sister was not very ambitious. My sister, 0:21:52.041 --> 0:21:54.880 you know, I always sort of was very driven. I 0:21:54.961 --> 0:21:56.960 just sort of knew what I wanted to do. And 0:21:57.001 --> 0:21:59.001 I think that was a very big part of my 0:21:59.120 --> 0:22:02.880 parents as well. You know, it was all about, you know, 0:22:02.921 --> 0:22:04.680 you've got to make something of yourself in this world. 0:22:05.241 --> 0:22:08.161 And I think that really comes down to us having 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.160 a better life than what they had. I guess I 0:22:11.281 --> 0:22:13.281 was very driven. I knew exactly what I wanted and 0:22:13.721 --> 0:22:16.080 sort of how to get it. Where she didn't. She 0:22:16.120 --> 0:22:18.480 didn't really have any drive. She didn't really know what 0:22:18.481 --> 0:22:21.840 she wanted to do. Actually, at one stage she wanted 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:26.241 to become a cop and sort of go down that path, 0:22:26.321 --> 0:22:30.080 but that didn't sort of suffice. And so when I 0:22:30.120 --> 0:22:35.520 started noticing her being a little bit different after high school, 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:38.481 and you know, she was hanging out with Shelby a lot, 0:22:38.681 --> 0:22:41.240 she actually had a fight with my parents and just 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:44.801 moved out and moved in with Shelby's parents. And I 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.920 just thought that was really strange. And because of the 0:22:48.001 --> 0:22:50.241 lack of drive, she still didn't really have a job. 0:22:50.761 --> 0:22:52.680 I told her she needs to move in with me. 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.921