Speaker 1: Peach Shepherd, welcome back to you project.
Speaker 2: Thank you Craig Harper for having me, Thank you Tiffany Cook,
Speaker 2: thank you everyone, Thank you all boys, thank you Linesman.
Speaker 1: Is that what we do? We thank everybody absolutely absolutely,
Speaker 1: and that's it. We're done over and now looking back
Speaker 1: Tomara with more of the same here on Melbourne's Hi
Speaker 1: tiff Hi, you guys were having the most interesting conversation
Speaker 1: before we actually press the go button. So can we
Speaker 1: just revisit that because Pea Shepherd is now in cyclone Central,
Speaker 1: living on in Queensland, I should say, in bris Vegas,
Speaker 1: and just repeat that little story you told us, the
Speaker 1: little bit of wisdom that your neighbor gave you, and
Speaker 1: then your subsequent ignorant reasons but understandable. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I'm a Victorian at heart. We've only
Speaker 2: lived in Brisbane for two years. And so I was
Speaker 2: outside putting the bins out and my next door aber
Speaker 2: said to me, so you all cyclone prepped for Alfred
Speaker 2: And I said, mate, like, you got to tell me
Speaker 2: what that meant because I have no idea what I'm doing,
Speaker 2: Like it's the house safe as a secure And he said, oh,
Speaker 2: we chucked the bins out of the house, take everything
Speaker 2: that's in the backyard and put it inside. You don't
Speaker 2: want any projectile missiles flying around. I said that's fair
Speaker 2: enough and he said, oh, and also you probably want
Speaker 2: to fill up your bathtub full of water.
Speaker 1: I said why and he said, because you might not
Speaker 1: have drinking water for a few days. I'm so am I.
Speaker 2: Drinking out of the bath or like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Apparently that's what we could be doing.
Speaker 1: Well, you may well be well and for people who
Speaker 1: are not in Australia. So we're recording this on Wednesday,
Speaker 1: the fifth of March, and it's due cyclone as a
Speaker 1: George cyclone for it, sorry, Cyclone Alfred is due in
Speaker 1: Queensland tomorrow. Am I correct with that? Yeah? Tomorrow night apparently.
Speaker 1: And what's the state of mind of people? It's everyone
Speaker 1: pretty cool and organized or people run around with their
Speaker 1: undies on their head. What's going on?
Speaker 2: It feels a little bit like the latter it Actually,
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is just because it's how
Speaker 2: I've felt because I'm again an ignorant Victorian.
Speaker 1: It's not experienced this before.
Speaker 2: But the closest thing I've compared it to is like
Speaker 2: the start of COVID twenty twenty in March, right, everyone's
Speaker 2: like there's a press conference every six hours. We don't
Speaker 2: know what's going on, but you probably just want to
Speaker 2: go get some supplies, don't know why. So there's nothing
Speaker 2: in the supermarket shells, you know, people are stocking up
Speaker 2: on toilet paper.
Speaker 1: For like just god knows why.
Speaker 2: And then it's sort of eerie when you look outside
Speaker 2: people are mowing the lawns and like packing everything away,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, that's the closest thing I've found
Speaker 2: it to be. So it feels a bit like the
Speaker 2: ONI's on the head in your example.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean, obviously, the most famous
Speaker 1: cyclone story in Australian history that we know of anyway
Speaker 1: in the last one hundred or two hundred years is
Speaker 1: Cyclone Tracy Darwin was at nineteen seventy four. You're both
Speaker 1: too young to remember, but Tiff, could you just google
Speaker 1: that for me? Cyclone Tracy was at nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well that absolutely pretty much destroyed Darwin. So
Speaker 1: let's hope there's nothing like a repeat of that. But
Speaker 1: compared to like about quarter of our listeners, which I
Speaker 1: didn't really know till the other day. On the EU Project,
Speaker 1: about quart of our listeners are from the States, right,
Speaker 1: and they're not unfamiliar with cyclones and tornadoes and bloody hurricanes.
Speaker 1: And what was.
Speaker 3: It ye nineteen seventy four, twenty first of December?
Speaker 1: How many people died in that? I think there was
Speaker 1: not the swow Wow, that's a significant natural disaster. So
Speaker 1: let's hope you don't get any of that.
Speaker 2: Pete was not too I actually speaking of I spoke
Speaker 2: to a colleague of mine who's American this morning, and
Speaker 2: the thing I learned in our conversation was, I think
Speaker 2: this is true. She was talking about a hurricane, and
Speaker 2: I was saying, what's the difference between a hurricane and
Speaker 2: a cyclone? And I'm pretty sure the difference is one's
Speaker 2: North American, that's the hurricane. One's the Southern hemisphere, which
Speaker 2: is a cyclone. Sorry, one's in the northern hemisphere. Ones
Speaker 2: the Southern hemisphere. They're actually the same thing.
Speaker 1: Well, TIF will TIF will get into bloody check that.
Speaker 1: Let's factor Jerry, Google or maybe Lai or chat chatters.
Speaker 1: So new boyfriend, what is yeah? Well, how have you
Speaker 1: been anyway? While while our personal assistant is finding that out.
Speaker 1: How I'm good. It's been I guess a few months
Speaker 1: since we caught up. It's a new year.
Speaker 2: I've just got back from a couple of weeks in
Speaker 2: Japan to reset with the family, which was amazing. Got
Speaker 2: to have some time off and now kind of get
Speaker 2: back into work and get back into trying to, you know,
Speaker 2: help people in whatever way I can through the lens
Speaker 2: of sort of leadership development. So all is well, pending
Speaker 2: the you know, the upcoming cyclone that we've already talked about.
Speaker 1: Perfect how you traveled? Yeah, I'm all right. I'm allegedly
Speaker 1: on the home straight of my PhD, which is I'm
Speaker 1: sick of talking about it. I'm sure my fucking listeners are.
Speaker 1: How long is the home straight? How long is the
Speaker 1: home straight? Well? I might get this wrong by a
Speaker 1: day or two, but I think my everything's got to
Speaker 1: be done, dusted, handed in by July seventeen, which means
Speaker 1: it's actually got to be like my PhD ends on
Speaker 1: July seventeen, So I'm currently So I've got a sorry
Speaker 1: to bore you everyone. So I did one, two, I
Speaker 1: did three. I ran three quite big studies and of
Speaker 1: those three studies. I'm writing two maybe three empirical papers.
Speaker 1: I'm also writing a thing called a systematic literature review,
Speaker 1: which is much bigger than an empirical paper. Typically like
Speaker 1: to start to finish writing a systematic doing all the
Speaker 1: research for a systematic review, then writing it, and that
Speaker 1: today is about a fourteen month journey. And then I'm
Speaker 1: also writing my thesis, which is basically for people who
Speaker 1: are wondering what the fuck is a thesis, it's almost
Speaker 1: like the story of your PhD journey. So this is
Speaker 1: what we looked at, and this is what we did
Speaker 1: and why we didn't, how we did it, this is
Speaker 1: what we discovered, and this is why the world needs
Speaker 1: this research. And this with a whole in the science
Speaker 1: and the research, and this is what I did to
Speaker 1: part fill that hole. And this is what we discovered,
Speaker 1: and this is what it means scientifically but also practically.
Speaker 1: So I've submitted one empirical paper which I'm waiting to
Speaker 1: so I need to have had at least one paper
Speaker 1: published as in so you can either do it by thesis,
Speaker 1: whereas you just basically write about an eighty thousand word
Speaker 1: essentially a book, but that those eighty thousand words have
Speaker 1: got to be absolutely fucking perfect, like not one comma,
Speaker 1: not one nothing like, everything's got to be perfect. That well,
Speaker 1: the part I've chosen, which is not easier, it's just different,
Speaker 1: is by publications. So you need to have your work,
Speaker 1: your papers published by academic journals. I'll be submitting three,
Speaker 1: maybe four, it depends on how I go over the
Speaker 1: next few months. I've submitted one. I'll have my litle
Speaker 1: review first draft finished by the end of this week,
Speaker 1: and then I've got to write one maybe two more.
Speaker 1: But because I've got all that, you know, I've done
Speaker 1: all my research, I've got all the data. I've done
Speaker 1: all my what's called academic milestones where you go and
Speaker 1: stand before the board and justify your you know, your
Speaker 1: research and please don't kick me out. So I've done
Speaker 1: all that. So when you say so, it's just up
Speaker 1: to writing shit. Now, people go, oh, well, that'll be
Speaker 1: easy because you're a writer. It's like, nah, it's not
Speaker 1: the same, and can I I've told this once before,
Speaker 1: but I don't think i've told you so. You you
Speaker 1: speak professionally, You're great, I've seen you your world class
Speaker 1: I speak professionally. I'll let everyone else be the judge
Speaker 1: of whether or not I'm any good. But I can
Speaker 1: certainly say that talking to a thousand people, I'm not nervous.
Speaker 1: For me, it's fun. Same for you, I tell you,
Speaker 1: standing in front of a board of four professors or
Speaker 1: essentially they're fucking judges right standing in front and talking
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes, right, So you've got to talk for
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, which for me, I'm not even warmed up
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes, right, and then you get grilled for
Speaker 1: the balance of the hour, which is forty minutes on
Speaker 1: your research, design, methodology outcomes, why you didn't do this,
Speaker 1: why you did that. That is for me, the hardest
Speaker 1: speaking gig or those four things I've ever had in
Speaker 1: my life. And can I tell you, I'm shit at it.
Speaker 1: I'm so not in my natural habitat because you know how,
Speaker 1: when you go somewhere you've got a fair level of
Speaker 1: confidence and maybe they even know who you are. There,
Speaker 1: may be a little bit excited to hear you talk, right,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh this is that guy? Fuck yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: or better still, if it's public event, they've paid to
Speaker 1: see you, right, so they want to be there. Well,
Speaker 1: in front of these people and completely understandably you're just
Speaker 1: a number. You're like three, five, one, seven two at
Speaker 1: Monash or whatever you are. So anyway, anyway, it's like
Speaker 1: I'm either going to be really sad or happy in
Speaker 1: about four or five months. If were you looking up
Speaker 1: something for us.
Speaker 3: Yes, a hurricane occurs in the North Atlantic Ocean, the
Speaker 3: Northeast Pacific Ocean, and the South Pacific Ocean, and a
Speaker 3: cyclone occurs in the South Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean,
Speaker 3: and they are essentially the same thing.
Speaker 1: That to me seems dumb. It's like it's the same Wow,
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, yeah, do you know what else?
Speaker 1: We'll actually have a proper podcast in a minute, everyone,
Speaker 1: we'll actually talk about something that Pete's here for. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I learned last night that I didn't
Speaker 1: know the Isle of Man? Either of you two know
Speaker 1: anything about the Isle of Man. So the Isle of
Speaker 1: Man is it's its own, independently governed territory. I might
Speaker 1: fuck a bit of this up. So it's independent of
Speaker 1: Ireland and Scotland and England. It's in the middle of
Speaker 1: the Irish Sea and it is roughly equidistant from all
Speaker 1: three of those nations, right, So it's I think it's
Speaker 1: like thirty odd k's from England and forty and fifty
Speaker 1: from Ireland and Scotland give or tape. But it's vaguely
Speaker 1: in the middle of those three. It's self governing, has
Speaker 1: its own parliament, has its own like fucking jail. It's
Speaker 1: and only eighty eight thousand people live there, and it's
Speaker 1: it's not a country though, but it's a self governing something. Yes,
Speaker 1: so interesting. I watched this and I thought, there's a
Speaker 1: place in the world. I know pretty much fucking nothing
Speaker 1: about it. There's plenty of to our listeners in the
Speaker 1: Isle of Man. But you know what I do. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is what I do. So I watch you shout
Speaker 1: out to Brian, shout out to Brian from the Isle
Speaker 1: of Man. But I watched something like that. Then I go, fuck,
Speaker 1: I want to live there. I wonder how much a
Speaker 1: house is, and then I go real estate Island Man.
Speaker 1: Then I go down this rabbit hole and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they have their own currency, they're not part of the EU.
Speaker 1: So interesting. And you think Australia is relatively small, It's like, wow,
Speaker 1: we're a fucking metropolis compared to their anyway. So that's
Speaker 1: what I'm going for Christmas. What's the most remote place, Well,
Speaker 1: both of you have been to in the world, as
Speaker 1: in just a not a big place. That is a
Speaker 1: good quest. I think maybe.
Speaker 2: I mean, Cuba is pretty big in terms of there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people that live there, but it's remote
Speaker 2: in the sense that it's very difficult to actually go
Speaker 2: to and visit because of historical government relations. I've been
Speaker 2: to Cuba, so maybe Cuba. Yeah, but there's too plenty
Speaker 2: of people. Yeah, Yeah, it's very interesting. It's basically nine
Speaker 2: and sixty, isn't it. It's basically your Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: you're traveling to nine a sixty. I remember, I'll never
Speaker 2: forget staying in this. You stay in people's houses and
Speaker 2: they just have lound rooms and stuff set up with
Speaker 2: beds and and I remember being in like the lound
Speaker 2: room and they were making us, I don't know, a
Speaker 2: coffee or something, and the owner of the house came
Speaker 2: home with a piece of like raw meat in his hand.
Speaker 2: Oh he just that he just ran down to the
Speaker 2: local person and bought from And they didn't have a bag,
Speaker 2: they didn't have a cooling system. They this has had
Speaker 2: a piece of meating's hand and they started cooking it
Speaker 2: up like that was that was the means of transporting
Speaker 2: this piece of meat.
Speaker 1: Wow, a piece of meat holding a piece of meat
Speaker 1: and did you did that subsequently become your dinner? Well
Speaker 1: I ended up having the vegetarian onward because I was
Speaker 1: a bit scared.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was fascinating. No Internet, like it's sue
Speaker 2: was super remote. Yeah, it was like being in the sixties.
Speaker 2: Not that I was there to comment.
Speaker 1: But I felt like and also sorry tip before we
Speaker 1: go to you. But but also they don't they don't
Speaker 1: bring new things in, like they don't import cars into
Speaker 1: Cuba or am I correct?
Speaker 2: Everyone's driving around in these old muscle cars. Yeah it's crazy. Yeah, horses,
Speaker 2: it's it's bizarre. But it was such a Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was a cool experience.
Speaker 3: Tiff for me would have to be the Himalayas. I
Speaker 3: guess a few days we were up in Negar, which
Speaker 3: is you're part of the Himalays, where there were just
Speaker 3: there's nobody except for the odd horse whilla transporting horses
Speaker 3: or cows across the and that was amazing.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, wow, you help there you go. Like, I
Speaker 1: went to a really small island which is part of
Speaker 1: Anawatu called a Spiritu Santo, which I think I've spoken about,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. The total population is two hundred.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what it is, but
Speaker 1: it was when I went, it was like the airport
Speaker 1: was basically a shed and you have to get a
Speaker 1: small This is literally what happened. So Port Vila is
Speaker 1: the capital unless I'm fucking this up of Vanuatu, and
Speaker 1: I had to get It was for a wedding. I
Speaker 1: had to get. I was going to a wedding on a
Speaker 1: spiritual santo and I had to get a light plane there.
Speaker 1: Now this was in my bodybuilding days and I wasn't
Speaker 1: in Christine condition. Let's say that tiff I was off
Speaker 1: season fat. I was off season fat, which is a
Speaker 1: euphemism for I was just fat, right anyway, But you
Speaker 1: can't say that anymore, even if it's about yourself. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I was fat as fuck. Let's just go with that now.
Speaker 1: I had been fatter though anyway. So here's the fucking
Speaker 1: terrifying thing. Before you get on the plane, they have
Speaker 1: to weigh you. So it was an eight person plane.
Speaker 1: They have to weigh all the luggage, they have to
Speaker 1: weigh all the people. And I get on and this
Speaker 1: little Vanawatuan man who was just beautiful and weighed as
Speaker 1: much as my fucking breakfast. I get on the scales
Speaker 1: and he goes, you're too fat. You're too fat. That's
Speaker 1: he said to me. You're too like literally, you're too fat.
Speaker 1: I'm like, pardon, and he goes, you're too fat, like
Speaker 1: quite emphatically, no pun intended. So I'm like, well, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know what to tell you. I can't
Speaker 1: be less fat instantly. I'll take that under advisement and
Speaker 1: do something moving forward. But right now I weigh one
Speaker 1: hundred and twelve killers. Now to give that some context,
Speaker 1: today I weigh eighty four or five. So yeah, back
Speaker 1: in therapy for fat arts. But yeah, that's brilliant. Come
Speaker 1: back tomorrow. You're too fat today? Yeah, okay, now worry
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, no. We basically he literally worked for words,
Speaker 1: said you're too fat to get on the plane. Went,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe we need to. I need to
Speaker 1: take out some of my fucking hand cream out of
Speaker 1: the my moisturizer kid or something. I don't know, take
Speaker 1: out the cakes I've stored in my bag. Anyway, that
Speaker 1: was my that was my the beginning of my trip
Speaker 1: to literally one of the most beautiful places I've ever been.
Speaker 1: But yeah, talk about yeah no they did. I just say, yeah, no, yeah, nothing, no,
Speaker 1: no technology. Yeah it was it was like stepping back
Speaker 1: five hundred years. But it was beautiful. But anyway, so mate,
Speaker 1: what I wanted to chat to you about today, Surprisingly
Speaker 1: not cyclones or tornadoes or hurricanes or remote locations, although
Speaker 1: all of that was interesting. I've had a phone. How
Speaker 1: much of your work is one on one coaching?
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've got a percentage on it,
Speaker 2: but I try to cap at at about ten at
Speaker 2: any one time, So I tend not to have more
Speaker 2: than ten one on ones at any one time because
Speaker 2: that enables me to then also be able to group
Speaker 2: workshops and speaking and sort of longest longer programs.
Speaker 1: But even those longer programs now.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that are complimented by one on one coaching.
Speaker 2: So I guess if you looked at it from an
Speaker 2: hour's perspective, it'd be something like twenty five to thirty percent, right,
Speaker 2: So it used to be more like eighty or ninety.
Speaker 1: Now it's more like twenty five thirty. Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to talk today about coaching and get a little bit
Speaker 1: of clarity. Like all of us do coaching in some
Speaker 1: shape or form. I know Tip coaches, people like coach,
Speaker 1: some people not too much anymore, just because my life
Speaker 1: doesn't really allow it. But I still did. It's pieces,
Speaker 1: and you do quite a bit of it. So could
Speaker 1: you do you just explain to people because I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of vagueness totally, or perhaps the lack
Speaker 1: of clarity might be a better term around what coaching
Speaker 1: is now. I know it's not one thing, it's many things,
Speaker 1: But can you explain to us what it's meant to be? Anyway?
Speaker 2: I'll do my best because I've I think I've evolved
Speaker 2: in my own processing of what this means and experimenting
Speaker 2: with what this means from where I was perhaps when
Speaker 2: we first started chatting about this, probably years ago now
Speaker 2: to now. I think I think of coaching as a posture.
Speaker 2: I think of coaching as almost almost a philosophy, whereby
Speaker 2: you have in your mind this idea that the person
Speaker 2: you're speaking with probably has the solution, The idea the
Speaker 2: insight the answer to the challenge that they might be facing,
Speaker 2: and your role as the coach is to try and
Speaker 2: help them realize that, to try and help them get
Speaker 2: unstuck from wherever they may be stuck in. Now what
Speaker 2: I've come to evolve into spending a lot more time
Speaker 2: on because of the nature of the conversations I enjoy
Speaker 2: and because of the nature of my experience and my
Speaker 2: area of expertise. I guess you could call it that is,
Speaker 2: because there's so many different flavors of coaching, is I've
Speaker 2: tended to focus a lot more on this idea of
Speaker 2: like a leadership or executive coaching, which is ultimately helping
Speaker 2: leaders within organizations or executives within organizations that might have
Speaker 2: very specific challenges like I have to have this difficult
Speaker 2: conversation with the subordinate and I don't know how to
Speaker 2: have it. Can we talk about what I might do
Speaker 2: to navigate that. How am I managing my own emotions?
Speaker 2: How am I managing their emotions? How do I navigate
Speaker 2: that context? So I think broadly speaking, it's about sort
Speaker 2: of helping people get out of their own way by
Speaker 2: asking questions and by holding space and by taking on
Speaker 2: this posture of like you probably already have the answer,
Speaker 2: I just need to help you realize that. And then
Speaker 2: I've narrowed it into the context of being a leader
Speaker 2: in an organization, especially that's where I tend to spend
Speaker 2: most of my time. Now not always the case, but
Speaker 2: that's where I spend my time. Now, what do you
Speaker 2: two think?
Speaker 1: You agree? Do you disagree? Yeah, that's interesting. I love
Speaker 1: all of that. I tip interrupt whenever you want. What
Speaker 1: do you think? And I know it varies, right, And
Speaker 1: by the way, everyone you probably not going to get
Speaker 1: a convergent consensus. You're probably not going to get a
Speaker 1: single definition or philosophy. But just because there is a
Speaker 1: proliferation of coaching courses and accreditations and fucking and some
Speaker 1: of my look at you know, and I just think,
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't think I'm the high watermark
Speaker 1: by any means. And i just go, old mates done
Speaker 1: a three day coaching course. I'm like, brilliant, well if
Speaker 1: and I go, I don't know, maybe it's amazing, maybe
Speaker 1: it's not. I just think the bars too so low,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's not even an industry because it's
Speaker 1: so different and there's no regulation like there's no anyone
Speaker 1: can call themselves a life coach. Anyone go, I'm a
Speaker 1: life coach? Cool? What is that? Even it's not really
Speaker 1: a recognized thing in an academic sense, which is not
Speaker 1: to say there are not brilliant coaches. There are. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think some of the best coaches have next this
Speaker 1: will get me in trouble sometimes no actual accreditation or
Speaker 1: academic you know, that's me. Yeah, I mean yeah, not that.
Speaker 2: Not that I'm one of the best, but like that's
Speaker 2: I am one of those people that I don't have a
Speaker 2: formal Bachelor of coaching. And people don't really like this,
Speaker 2: but it depends, you know. It's like you could literally,
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we all know someone who's got
Speaker 2: a psych degree, and psych degree is not good or bad.
Speaker 2: And some people with a psych degree you can sit
Speaker 2: down with them and it's brilliant and they're amazing. And
Speaker 2: that may or may not be because of their psychic
Speaker 2: degree or their sociology degree, or their masters or their
Speaker 2: PhD or their whatever it is maybe related or you know,
Speaker 2: like one of the smartest people that I know in
Speaker 2: the world is my dad's best friend, who's my surrogate dad,
Speaker 2: Gil he finished school at year eight, and he is
Speaker 2: profoundly fucking.
Speaker 1: More intelligent than me and wiser than me. I'm a
Speaker 1: dumb ass compared to him. Right, So, and he's been
Speaker 1: coaching people without calling it coaching his whole lot, because
Speaker 1: he's a brilliant leader, a brilliant teacher. There was just
Speaker 1: no label, Like when he grew up, that wasn't a thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts? TIFFs? Like you coach people? What's
Speaker 1: your philosophy?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I guess that's why I moved away from the term
Speaker 3: coach and called myself the mind pt like and when
Speaker 3: I do my coaching with groups, I introduced myself as
Speaker 3: the facilitator of the thing we're doing, you know, life,
Speaker 3: because I think everyone has a different idea of what
Speaker 3: coaching is. The book that I've just written a chapter
Speaker 3: in is a collaboration between twenty four other coaches that
Speaker 3: are talking about their concept of where they've gone beyond
Speaker 3: the traditional model of coaching and how they do things differently,
Speaker 3: which is really cool. I can't wait to read all
Speaker 3: the other aspects of that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, do either of you think that coaching
Speaker 1: has a brain and the image problem?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, yeah, definitely, And I agree with Tiff
Speaker 2: that I've in certain contexts, I don't even like using
Speaker 2: that word to describe what I'm doing. I think facilitator,
Speaker 2: for sure, is a great word to describe, especially if
Speaker 2: it's a group. You know, you could call it a
Speaker 2: group coaching session, or we could call it I'm facilitating
Speaker 2: you through this workshop, and it's sort of the same
Speaker 2: posture in a way, but it comes with a lot
Speaker 2: less baggage and image problems. I tend to agree with that.
Speaker 1: It is a little bit cringey. You know what else
Speaker 1: is cringey? This is hilarious the two things that I do.
Speaker 1: What else is cringe is personal trainer. I mean, like
Speaker 1: and shout out to all the personal trainers. I love
Speaker 1: personal trainers, and I grew up in the personal training space.
Speaker 1: But it's not you know that that's not necessarily held
Speaker 1: in super high regard, is it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting that some support that there's like certain
Speaker 2: associations with status that we make weaving the broader population
Speaker 2: when we hear these terms, And I think a lot
Speaker 2: of it's based on our own experience or based on
Speaker 2: the fact that we know this person we went to
Speaker 2: high school with who's now decided they're a coach and
Speaker 2: because they do their to our course, like you mentioned,
Speaker 2: and you're maybe a little skeptical about whether that's actually
Speaker 2: possible and legitimate. And so I think you're right that
Speaker 2: there is an image problem. And it doesn't mean there
Speaker 2: aren't awesome coaches out there, because I think you two
Speaker 2: are clearly awesome coaches. I think I'm doing an okay
Speaker 2: job based on the you know, thousands of people I've
Speaker 2: coached at this point.
Speaker 1: But that's not to say.
Speaker 2: There aren't people out there that are a little more
Speaker 2: a little more shaky in terms of their credentials.
Speaker 1: I actually go on to.
Speaker 3: The tough thing with personal training. I mean, no, I
Speaker 3: did my qualifications years ago. But you're in a tough
Speaker 3: spot as a personal training because you go and do
Speaker 3: these courses and half of them are shit. You leave
Speaker 3: the course, you don't know how to train, how to
Speaker 3: train anyone. The way that you've gone to learn. What
Speaker 3: you've learned is how to not get sued and how
Speaker 3: to not let people die in your under your care.
Speaker 3: Then you have to go out and start your learning
Speaker 3: whilst saying I'm now personal trainer, and that's the beginning
Speaker 3: of putting yourself in imposter syndrome and being a bullshit artist,
Speaker 3: and then eventually, after years, you slide into I know
Speaker 3: what I'm.
Speaker 1: Doing now that's fascinating. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think this is where I got so lucky, a
Speaker 2: bit like your dad's friend Craig, where I was working
Speaker 2: in a corporate as a like account manager and senior
Speaker 2: account manager, helping leaders in organizations solve challenges through this
Speaker 2: series of consulting and programs that we had at this
Speaker 2: company I.
Speaker 1: Was working for.
Speaker 2: And then I ended up doing this online workshop which
Speaker 2: we've talked about before, Seth Godin's Altaba, and that was
Speaker 2: where I first interacted with a coach and what I
Speaker 2: started to uncover and I was asked to join the
Speaker 2: team as a coach, And when I started to realize
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is I think this is what
Speaker 2: I've been doing for the last eight years, but people
Speaker 2: just call it coaching. In other context, it's asking questions
Speaker 2: to help people solve challenges. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you can call this coaching. So I think I got
Speaker 2: super lucky in that I'd been flexing that muscle and
Speaker 2: doing that thing for so long without realizing it. So
Speaker 2: when it came to time for when someone said to me,
Speaker 2: can you coach me? I was like, oh, I think
Speaker 2: I know what that means, and A I think I
Speaker 2: can do it because I've done it for so long
Speaker 2: without realizing that's what I was doing, which is very
Speaker 2: different to what you described to it with the PC.
Speaker 1: That's fascinating.
Speaker 3: I was lucky because I started in a boxing gym,
Speaker 3: so I was training people to box, so I could
Speaker 3: go and learn the other stuff before taking those clients.
Speaker 3: I think I would have hated the proces because I
Speaker 3: knew boxing back to front, so I was confident in that,
Speaker 3: and if people wanted a bodybuilding program, I would just
Speaker 3: move them on.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think coaching is just a newish
Speaker 1: term for something that's been done forever anyway. We just
Speaker 1: call it different stuff, right, and we somehow went, oh,
Speaker 1: this is new, and it's like wow. It's like when
Speaker 1: trainers go to me, they wheel out some weird name
Speaker 1: for something. They're like, oh, what do you think of?
Speaker 1: A I don't know some name I've never heard of,
Speaker 1: and I go what the fuck is that? And then
Speaker 1: I go, oh, show me what it is, and then
Speaker 1: they do this thing I go, oh, well, that's called
Speaker 1: x YZ. Or It's like, what the one thing that
Speaker 1: hasn't changed in the last thirty forty years since I
Speaker 1: started is anatomy and physiology. Right, It's like we've still
Speaker 1: got all the same muscles and all the same joints, ligaments, tendons, bones.
Speaker 1: You know, extension is still extension, Flexion is still flextion,
Speaker 1: internal external rotation, abduction abduction. If you know where your
Speaker 1: muscles originate and insert and crossover, what joints, and you
Speaker 1: understand planes of movement, then you know you can look
Speaker 1: at any movement and know exactly what muscles are working
Speaker 1: because you know, right, and there are some things that
Speaker 1: just don't change. And so too when we look at
Speaker 1: whether it's psychology or coaching or mentoring or teaching or leadership.
Speaker 1: You know, the same principles that kind of applied when
Speaker 1: the Stoics were talking about similar stuff two and a
Speaker 1: half thousand years ago about self regulation and self management
Speaker 1: and leadership and understanding the mind and human potential and
Speaker 1: self awareness. You know, nothing's really like the principles are
Speaker 1: the same. We just give it a different fucking badge
Speaker 1: and go, hey, we invented something. No you didn't at all.
Speaker 1: It's the same, totally agree.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite stories is one of those old
Speaker 2: stoic stories that my brother and I often joke about,
Speaker 2: is I think it was Socrates, but maybe I'm getting
Speaker 2: the stoic wrong, But it was someone who ended up
Speaker 2: hiring an individual to be their humility servant, and basically
Speaker 2: this person's responsibility was to remind them that they're not
Speaker 2: as awesome as they think they are, to keep them grounded.
Speaker 2: And it's like, basically, even thousands of years ago, this
Speaker 2: idea of being humble and having humility was seen as
Speaker 2: virtuous and it was a really hard thing to do,
Speaker 2: especially when you're in power and you look around organizations now.
Speaker 2: I mean, I talk to leaders all the time about
Speaker 2: how humility is a superpower, not a weakness, and so
Speaker 2: what does it look like to remind yourself of that
Speaker 2: and adopt this posture when you're talking to other people.
Speaker 2: You don't have to puff your chest out and pretend
Speaker 2: like you're the most important person in the room and
Speaker 2: have all the answers.
Speaker 1: Actually there's merit in doing the opposite. But that's not
Speaker 1: a new idea.
Speaker 2: That goes back to Socrates in his humility servant, Like,
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: We have humility servants. Now are people who provide that service.
Speaker 1: They're called commenters. They might be slightly different. I think
Speaker 1: that's trolls, isn't it. Listeners shout out, yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: mean most of our listeners are very no truth, Tolly,
Speaker 1: most of our listeners are very positive. Like the amount
Speaker 1: of hate we get this non invitation, it's minimal as well,
Speaker 1: I think because none of us pretend we're awesome, you know,
Speaker 1: like I think that people love just healthy conversations with
Speaker 1: people who kind of maybe are good at a few things,
Speaker 1: not so good at other things, and you know, just
Speaker 1: trying to help people do the same which is learn
Speaker 1: and grow and evolve, and you know, we're all doing
Speaker 1: the same thing at the same time, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: slightly differently. But so one of the things I'm interested
Speaker 1: about with you Pete especially, and then TIF if you
Speaker 1: want to jump into is obviously every person that you
Speaker 1: have is different, so mentally, emotionally, physiologically, sociologically, practically, background,
Speaker 1: different brain, different experiences, and so we know that a
Speaker 1: four step coaching plan doesn't work because for obvious reasons.
Speaker 1: So do you have a set starting point. Do you
Speaker 1: have a set protocol? I feel like you're probably going
Speaker 1: to say no. But is how much is ductured and
Speaker 1: planned and how much of it is freestyle intuitive and
Speaker 1: let's just see what happens.
Speaker 2: I think I would say ninety something percent of it
Speaker 2: is fluid. And that's for a couple of reasons. One is, sorry,
Speaker 2: you should go back. There is structure in terms of
Speaker 2: the way the conversations usually happen, in terms of like
Speaker 2: it's sixty minutes it's every two weeks, for example, or
Speaker 2: it's ninety minutes and it's once a month. There is
Speaker 2: structure in how we agree to run the series of
Speaker 2: coaching sessions that we're going to have, and then within
Speaker 2: that structure, I have deliberately create total freedom for a
Speaker 2: tow of two reasons.
Speaker 1: One is, I think it's foolish to think that.
Speaker 2: There's a twelve step program for all individuals as it
Speaker 2: relates to coaching. As you mentioned, were a four step program.
Speaker 2: And I think that a really important part of great
Speaker 2: coaching is to meet people where they're at, and that
Speaker 2: requires adaptability and fluidity because you don't know where they're
Speaker 2: at until they start speaking, and so there might be
Speaker 2: a common question that I ask at the start, like
Speaker 2: what's on your mind right now, what's the current challenge
Speaker 2: that you have. Let's work with that, and then from
Speaker 2: there it goes in whatever direction it goes in.
Speaker 3: So I.
Speaker 2: Adopt fluidity because I think it serves them and selfishly
Speaker 2: harps and tears and listeners. I enjoy the fluidity more
Speaker 2: and I actually think I'm better at that that I
Speaker 2: would get so bored of myself if I was constantly
Speaker 2: following the exact same process. As part of the reason
Speaker 2: I didn't operate very well in a corporate environment because
Speaker 2: I was required or assumed to take on certain scripts
Speaker 2: and certain behaviors in a certain way all day every day.
Speaker 2: I need the fluidity for my own intellectual curiosity. And
Speaker 2: you know, I was going to use the word arousalor,
Speaker 2: but you know, intellectual arousal or. I find it more
Speaker 2: interesting if I don't know what's going to happen. Yes,
Speaker 2: what everyone is like that, I get that, But for me,
Speaker 2: that's I love the fluidity because it energizes me.
Speaker 1: What do you do to increase the chances of that
Speaker 1: one or one and a half hour interaction, that one
Speaker 1: one and a half hours of literally theory being operationalized.
Speaker 1: After the fact, you mean, yeah, so okay, you're coaching me.
Speaker 1: We chat for an hour and a half, I'm seeing
Speaker 1: you in a month, and I go, that was great,
Speaker 1: Pete bye. Yeah, And then four weeks later you're like,
Speaker 1: how'd you go? I go, what you know? I haven't
Speaker 1: fucking done anything? Let me talk Yeah, yeah, like, well,
Speaker 1: one of my challenges. I know I can talk underwater.
Speaker 1: That's not the issue. I know I can share thoughts
Speaker 1: and ideas and strategies and information. That's not hard for me.
Speaker 1: What's not hard. But what I'm more interested in is
Speaker 1: how the fuck do I help or improve the chances
Speaker 1: of this person literally taking action and keep taking action
Speaker 1: in between our sessions.
Speaker 2: Love this question. So the consistent thing I do, I
Speaker 2: guess this is part of the X percent that's somewhere
Speaker 2: under ten that is similar in each session is I
Speaker 2: will ask them to make a commitment at the end
Speaker 2: of the session. So, based on everything we just spoke about, Harps,
Speaker 2: what's the one thing you're going to do between now
Speaker 2: and an next session? Take as long as you want
Speaker 2: to sit there and think about it for four minutes.
Speaker 2: If you have to I don't care. I'm going to
Speaker 2: sit here until you answer that question. And then depending
Speaker 2: on who it is, because some of my clients are
Speaker 2: like they'll do it by tomorrow they're really operationally active,
Speaker 2: and others I know I'll need to send them in
Speaker 2: a reminder in two weeks time or in a week's
Speaker 2: time just to go, how are you going with that
Speaker 2: commitment that you made, and they might go, oh shit,
Speaker 2: I didn't do anything. Thanks for the reminder. Let me
Speaker 2: go and put this into action. Certainly not full proof,
Speaker 2: as still times where I get to have conversations with
Speaker 2: people and they go, oh god, I completely forgot to
Speaker 2: do that thing that I committed to doing. But I
Speaker 2: think there's more merit in them putting themselves on the
Speaker 2: hook than in me saying this is what you now
Speaker 2: have to go and do. That's at least what I've
Speaker 2: found to work better is like, you need to put
Speaker 2: yourself on the hook. And that's going to feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: I'll hold you a cook to account, but you've got
Speaker 2: to put yourself on the hook. What's the commitment you're
Speaker 2: going to make?
Speaker 1: Wow? I love that. I love that. I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is a good idea or a bad idea,
Speaker 1: but workshop it. After all, this, let's workshop it. So
Speaker 1: I'm doing a I'm doing a group on Monday nights.
Speaker 1: I call it a private group. There's seven people, so
Speaker 1: not so private, but it's a private mentor in group
Speaker 1: that's relatively expensive. It's ten weeks and what are we Wednesday?
Speaker 1: So two nights ago we did communication, connection and understanding others.
Speaker 1: So every week there's a theme. Anyway, So we did
Speaker 1: all the stuff, and you know, like the actual sessions,
Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, are good. I get
Speaker 1: good feedback. There's a fair bit of interaction. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of note taking, there's a lot of head nodding.
Speaker 1: They can ask a question at any time, you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: wait for a gap in the proceedings, put up your
Speaker 1: little electronic hand, and as soon as possible, which is
Speaker 1: usually within a minute, I'll say, Pete, wa'ts your question?
Speaker 1: What do you want to know? Or But I've started
Speaker 1: saying to people, look, here's what happens. Most times when
Speaker 1: I do something, or when sessions like this happen. Statistically,
Speaker 1: most people will do fuck all between this session and
Speaker 1: the next. I mean, really make decisions, take action, be
Speaker 1: proactive and productive, roll up their sleeves, get uncomfortable, like
Speaker 1: every day for the next seven days. Like, the chances
Speaker 1: of you guys all doing that are zero zero. The
Speaker 1: chances of half of you doing that are probably three
Speaker 1: percent or five percent. And I go, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that to be negative or to dissuade you. I want
Speaker 1: you to prove me wrong. I cannot emphasize enough how
Speaker 1: much these sessions and the value in the ten weeks,
Speaker 1: ironically is not about the ten sessions. Yeah, it's about
Speaker 1: the in between. I know, and you know. You can
Speaker 1: turn up. Both of you can turn up and do
Speaker 1: your thing, Like can you stand and be articulate and
Speaker 1: funny and tell a good story and be a bit inspirational.
Speaker 1: Of course you can. But you get to a point
Speaker 1: where I don't even care about that. I don't care
Speaker 1: about that because that's without being arrogant, that's somewhat like,
Speaker 1: that's just an that's expected. You just got to do that.
Speaker 1: That's your fucking job. That's you know, that's that's the base.
Speaker 1: But then on top of that, you know, what's what's
Speaker 1: the next layer. I absolutely agree with this so much.
Speaker 2: I think about this more than I think about how
Speaker 2: do I come up, how do I have everyone think
Speaker 2: that I'm a really smart person. At the end of
Speaker 2: the session, I think more about how do I get
Speaker 2: out of the way and create the conditions for them
Speaker 2: to actually do something. And so I will, like very
Speaker 2: tactically do things like if it's virtual use breakout rooms,
Speaker 2: where I go, what's one thing you're going to do
Speaker 2: based on everything we've talked about today between now and
Speaker 2: the session, go into a breakout with two other people,
Speaker 2: share it with them, write your names down, and now
Speaker 2: you three are an accountability group and you've got to
Speaker 2: keep each other accountable between now in the next session,
Speaker 2: because I can't be the person holding your hand. And
Speaker 2: I think more and more in the value that I
Speaker 2: try and provide leaders and teams and people that are
Speaker 2: taking part in the sessions that I run is I
Speaker 2: don't actually want you to go that thing I just
Speaker 2: heard from Pete was so freaking helpful. I want them
Speaker 2: to go that conversation I had with that person that
Speaker 2: was also there that was freaking brilliant. And so I'm
Speaker 2: seeing my role more and more as like creating the
Speaker 2: conditions for those conversations as opposed to being this like
Speaker 2: one voice that has to impart wisdom.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I find that more effective at least
Speaker 2: to create the conditions for actual change to happen. Doesn't
Speaker 2: always happen, but I think it's more effective than you know,
Speaker 2: go on to the days a little bit where we
Speaker 2: sit there and listen to the lecturer who's got the
Speaker 2: information that none of us have, because we all have
Speaker 2: all the information all the time at our fingertips.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, yeah, And it's almost like the I did
Speaker 1: the Peach Shepherd or the tiff cook course and it
Speaker 1: didn't work. What, yeah, I did it. It didn't work.
Speaker 1: What do you mean it didn't work? Like? Did you
Speaker 1: do the work? Like? Did you like all the stuff
Speaker 1: that was spoken about and all the head nodding and
Speaker 1: all the note taking by you and all the like.
Speaker 1: And it's like, at some stage we all need to
Speaker 1: go us three included. So I've told people a million
Speaker 1: times I'm not the answer to anything. I'm just a
Speaker 1: guy pointing to the answer, and which is you. Generally
Speaker 1: the answer is going to you. I'm a tool, and
Speaker 1: many people will agree I'm a tool. I'm a resource,
Speaker 1: I'm a conduit to something. But you know, it's like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I can't be disciplined for you. I can't get out
Speaker 1: of bed for you. I can't have a good attitude
Speaker 1: for you. I can't make decisions for you. I can't
Speaker 1: work hard for you. I can't be brave for you.
Speaker 1: I can't be resilient for you. And all of those
Speaker 1: things are what needs happen and I can't do any
Speaker 1: of that. Only you can do that.
Speaker 2: And I think it's actually more generous for you to
Speaker 2: say that and acknowledge that with them to go. My
Speaker 2: role is to open the door and turn on the light.
Speaker 2: You need to be the one that walks into that
Speaker 2: room and do whatever you need to do in that room.
Speaker 2: I'll try and open the door and turn the light,
Speaker 2: and then it's on you. It's totally on you, And
Speaker 2: that's generous.
Speaker 1: What's your advice for people either, t if I'm going
Speaker 1: to start with you, So people that want to be
Speaker 1: coached and they go, I'm I'm going to go to
Speaker 1: a coach, how do they get the best out of that? Like,
Speaker 1: what advice do you have for them to get the
Speaker 1: most value from And whether or not it's about nutrition
Speaker 1: or fitness or business or life or overcoming an addiction
Speaker 1: or self regulation. How do we as clients who are
Speaker 1: going to see work with someone and by the way,
Speaker 1: that someone could be a dietitian or a physio or
Speaker 1: an exercise scientist, store a life coach, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: But how do we as clients get the most value?
Speaker 3: Be honest, be curious, and be brave enough to go
Speaker 3: deeper than you thought you were going in to go.
Speaker 3: Because when I think about people that don't make change,
Speaker 3: I think there's as much power or maybe more in
Speaker 3: just helping them self discover the process of why am
Speaker 3: I not making change? So I don't care if you
Speaker 3: change at the end of this program that you said
Speaker 3: you wanted to come in and change this. But if
Speaker 3: I can loosen the lid on why you think you
Speaker 3: want to change it and why you're not, and if
Speaker 3: you walk away at least scratching your head and going
Speaker 3: on there's something in that, then one day you might
Speaker 3: be closer to changing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Nice's good answer. Yeah, I agree with everything Tiff said.
Speaker 2: I wrote down Attitude is a skill. So I think
Speaker 2: about the thing that I want you to have is
Speaker 2: an attitude that is can juici of to learning and growth.
Speaker 2: And self discovery and a willingness to figure out what
Speaker 2: your blind spots might be or where you might be
Speaker 2: getting in your own way. And so in my mind,
Speaker 2: that requires a certain attitude. The good thing I think,
Speaker 2: at least in my experience with enough sort of filters,
Speaker 2: is it's pretty rare to get to a point where
Speaker 2: you're talking to a coach and you decide you're actually
Speaker 2: interested in being coached. Like usually people opt in that
Speaker 2: are relatively attuned to doing this kind of having these
Speaker 2: kinds of conversations not always the case, especially if you're
Speaker 2: working with a corporate and like someone's recommended you have
Speaker 2: a conversation with this person, they're a bit like why
Speaker 2: am I here?
Speaker 1: My manager told me to be here. So I think
Speaker 1: it comes down to attitude. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well,
Speaker 1: you can talk. Yeah, Look, I just think that we
Speaker 1: really need to be like Tiff said, you've got to
Speaker 1: be You've got to be honest and a bit vulnerable
Speaker 1: and go, look, some of the shit that I need
Speaker 1: to do I won't want to do. And people or
Speaker 1: tiar four Craig might say something that I find really
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and I'm not talking about anything inappropriate I'm just
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, like, if I'm being brutally honest,
Speaker 1: most of the big problems that I've had were mostly me.
Speaker 1: You know. There have been other variables and other people
Speaker 1: that weren't always awesome. But if I'm being honest, mostly me, Like,
Speaker 1: mostly I have gotten in my own way. And I
Speaker 1: think something I've spoken about quite a bit lately is
Speaker 1: this stupid need that we humans seem to have to
Speaker 1: be right about things. It's like, oh, fuck, how many
Speaker 1: times have I gotten something wrong? Oh? Just probably a million.
Speaker 1: So even some of the things that I now think
Speaker 1: i'm right about, I know a percentage of that I'm
Speaker 1: probably going to be wrong about almost definitely, And that's okay.
Speaker 1: And this willingness to go into the metaphoric room where
Speaker 1: you're the white belt, not the black belt, where you're
Speaker 1: the dumbest, where you're the worst, where you're the least skill,
Speaker 1: where you're the least capable and competent. Go into that
Speaker 1: room and don't run out to fucking go in there
Speaker 1: and learn and grow and pay attention.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's like most things that I'm now good at, And
Speaker 1: I say that with an asterisk. I was not good
Speaker 1: at when I began.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like as we get older, we
Speaker 2: put ourselves in those situations less and less and less
Speaker 2: and less and less.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it it feels like it goes back to the
Speaker 2: humility servant, right, It's like having the humility to go,
Speaker 2: I don't know everything and that's okay. In fact, that's
Speaker 2: a good thing, because I totally agree with the Harps
Speaker 2: that like, there is this weird desire for people to
Speaker 2: be right, but they're not just to be right, but
Speaker 2: to remind everyone of like, oh, I predicted this.
Speaker 1: Twelve months ago. This is exactly what I've said would happen.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, yeah, yeah, and that's that whole
Speaker 1: kind of I did. It seems to be a bit
Speaker 1: of overlap and reoccurring theme here at typ But I
Speaker 1: did an episode a few days ago which I think
Speaker 1: you would like this concept, Pete. It was called the
Speaker 1: fence Hitter, And I'm actually an advocate for sitting on
Speaker 1: the fence, right, because it's all sometimes it's seen as
Speaker 1: you know, weakness or ignorance or whereas I think, well,
Speaker 1: let's maybe reframe that if I'm sitting on the literal
Speaker 1: fence or the metaphoric fence. I can see what you
Speaker 1: guys who are on either side of the fence can't
Speaker 1: see because I've got a different vantage point. You've got
Speaker 1: a Yeah, I've got maybe a level of awareness and
Speaker 1: insight and a perspective that is valuable up here right
Speaker 1: this whole kind of societal and cultural kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know, collective mindset of you have to pick a side.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how about this, how about don't tell me
Speaker 1: what I have to do. How about I just figure
Speaker 1: out and look that I don't want to be in
Speaker 1: either of those camps. I just want to be able
Speaker 1: to think for me. And there'll be some things that
Speaker 1: I agree with Group A, something's group B, some things
Speaker 1: Group C. But I don't actually want to identify necessarily
Speaker 1: with some echo chamber of behavior or thought or culture
Speaker 1: or religion or whatever it is or philosophy. I just
Speaker 1: I want to think for myself. And if Pete and
Speaker 1: Tiff and I all happen to agree on a thing,
Speaker 1: that's a coincidence. It's not a plan. Yeah, Like we're
Speaker 1: not all hanging out because we all have exactly the
Speaker 1: same And if you and I and Tiff all thought
Speaker 1: the same on everything, I'd be extremely fucking scared, and
Speaker 1: I I'll be like, wow, there's something wrong, right. I
Speaker 1: love that idea. Fan sitting is a good thing, I think.
Speaker 1: I think it gives you the last thing that I
Speaker 1: wanted to chat about to you. TIF and I did
Speaker 1: a podcast yesterday where we spoke briefly about, among other things,
Speaker 1: setting goals and stuff, you know, old school goal setting
Speaker 1: one o one. But you know, when I talk to
Speaker 1: people on a really fundamental level, we talk about the
Speaker 1: thing that you want, then we talk about why you
Speaker 1: want it, and then we talk about how you're going
Speaker 1: to get it, and then we talk vaguely about when
Speaker 1: you're going to get it. So you know, what do
Speaker 1: you want, why do you want it, how are you
Speaker 1: going to create it, what's your plan, what's your strategy,
Speaker 1: watch your protocol, and then you know, watch your timeline,
Speaker 1: give or tape. And it feels like with a lot
Speaker 1: of people, I want you to speak to this if
Speaker 1: you can. When you do a deep dive on what
Speaker 1: people want and then why they want it, sometimes they
Speaker 1: actually go oh, because it's the thing that they initially want,
Speaker 1: which they think will open the door to the thing
Speaker 1: they really want, which is the why, the reason, the motivator,
Speaker 1: the driver. So like I might go, I want to
Speaker 1: earn five hundred grand a year, and the reason being
Speaker 1: it's going to make my life better, me better, I'll
Speaker 1: be much happier, I'll have all this flexibility, I'll be
Speaker 1: able to do all these things. And then the bottom
Speaker 1: and then when you filter down through that, it's cause
Speaker 1: I'll be happier, I'll be calmer, and I'll be and
Speaker 1: then but when you do a deep dive, you're like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that will equal that, or maybe that won't
Speaker 1: equal that. So talk to me about that. Do people
Speaker 1: ever with you come in with a certain focus or
Speaker 1: intentional plan and then realize that maybe I'm climbing the
Speaker 1: wrong mountain. Yeah, I would say all the time, because
Speaker 1: I think so. One of the things I think about
Speaker 1: is goal setting is important for the very reason that
Speaker 1: you just described. Is it because it can clarify what
Speaker 1: you're actually valuing or you're actually striving towards, or what
Speaker 1: you're actually pursuing and why you're pursuing it. But I
Speaker 1: think goal achieving is overrated. I think the process of
Speaker 1: getting clear on what things are motivating you and why
Speaker 1: that might be the case is super important, which is
Speaker 1: goal and I'm repeating myself, but I think the process
Speaker 1: of in pursuing that, you are going to discover a
Speaker 1: bunch of things that hopefully enable you to unlock new
Speaker 1: doors and see things differently and realize the five hundred
Speaker 1: gramd was and actually the thing that mattered it was
Speaker 1: actually something else, and the fact that you wanted to
Speaker 1: be in a different job, and so like, why don't
Speaker 1: you go and get a different job without the need
Speaker 1: to have the five Like the process of discovery just
Speaker 1: by setting the goal, to me is so much more
Speaker 1: important than like, oh I got the five hundred gram,
Speaker 1: but I'm miserable. Yes, okay, So like the achieving part
Speaker 1: is overrated. It's the especially if the process is robust,
Speaker 1: which the one you describe is. It's the process of
Speaker 1: self inquiry basically to go, this is the thing I
Speaker 1: think I want. Why do I want that? Why is
Speaker 1: that important to me? And who would help me get that?
Speaker 1: And maybe in.
Speaker 2: Discovering that year, oh, actually I realize I have twelve
Speaker 2: people in my network that could probably help me do that.
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: So maybe I'll go talk to those twelve people and
Speaker 2: I'm less attached about because it's going to help me
Speaker 2: do the thing, but more in those twelve conversations, maybe
Speaker 2: I'll end up in like a bunch of different directions
Speaker 2: I couldn't have predicted at the start. So I like
Speaker 2: the process and I don't necessarily think the outcome of
Speaker 2: achieving the goal is as important as we think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting, it's about cheesy, but it's about who
Speaker 1: you become on the climb, not you know, not the summit.
Speaker 1: And like to this point, which you said, you know
Speaker 1: it's like the achievement or the goal itself. Yeah, it's good,
Speaker 1: but I think back. So I started training people in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. Well, I started writing programs, working gyms.
Speaker 1: I started pizzing in eighty six, which is next year,
Speaker 1: forty years right. I literally have trained thousands of people
Speaker 1: who their primary goal. I'm not saying this is a
Speaker 1: bad goal. Anyone done crack the shits, don't send me
Speaker 1: an email. But their main focus was to reach a
Speaker 1: certain weight, or to reach a certain body fat level, right,
Speaker 1: and in some cases, to reach a certain bench press
Speaker 1: number or whatever. But they were all of these essentially measurable,
Speaker 1: quantifiable numeric goals now the amount of people that got
Speaker 1: to their goal weight and then went, ah, that's it,
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm happy pretty much zero zero, yeah, really
Speaker 1: much zero. It's like they came in, they had a goal,
Speaker 1: they achieved the goal, and then when they got to
Speaker 1: the goal, there was almost no contentment or no last contentment, right.
Speaker 1: And I think this is probably an episode for another day.
Speaker 1: But I think we think sometimes that when we tick
Speaker 1: that box, or we hit that weight, or we hit
Speaker 1: that bench press, or we get that body composition, or
Speaker 1: we get that income or we get that fucking PhD
Speaker 1: or we get that that we're going to somehow that
Speaker 1: external achievement is going to equate to some internal reality
Speaker 1: that is pretty much nirvana. And then we get there
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh fuck, there's no nirvana with this.
Speaker 1: I make the same person. Yeah I've got to lose
Speaker 1: three more kilos, it's definitely three more kilos. I'm still
Speaker 1: the same person with the same brain.
Speaker 2: I feel like this is the same is true with
Speaker 2: you know, people who think they need to move overseas
Speaker 2: to escape the thing that they're currently experiencing in their
Speaker 2: day to day and they get overseas and they go
Speaker 2: it's all in my head.
Speaker 1: Still it's still. Yeah, the fact that I live on
Speaker 1: the isle of Man isn't helping. The fact that like
Speaker 1: that that helps, damn it is.
Speaker 2: I Oh, but I also want to go into that
Speaker 2: a little bit. For having the goals, It's almost like
Speaker 2: having the specific bench press goal is cool as long
Speaker 2: as your happiness and success and contentment is not contingent
Speaker 2: on hitting it. It's like, yes, can you enjoy the
Speaker 2: process of trying to get the one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: kilo ground bench press and not only be happy or
Speaker 2: content if and when you get that? Because I think
Speaker 2: that's where we set ourselves up for failure, because you're right,
Speaker 2: you hit the bench press. We I've have a benchress
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty. But say you did, and you.
Speaker 1: Go, oh, I still feel a bit shit, Like what's
Speaker 1: going on there?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I need to do one hundred and fifty one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Why am I problem still here? Exactly? Yeah, I'm living
Speaker 1: on the isle of Man. Oh, Apparently my problems weren't geographical.
Speaker 1: It's psychological. That's true. I think it's so true.
Speaker 2: It's like if people to go on a holiday to
Speaker 2: escape the reality, and they realize when they get back
Speaker 2: or when they're on the holiday is like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: still the same person with the same noise rattling around
Speaker 2: in my head.
Speaker 1: That's the way, mate. I love talking to you. My
Speaker 1: audience loves you, Tiff. It's got a hard crush on you.
Speaker 1: She's only a human. How do people connect with you
Speaker 1: and find you and follow you? I mean human?
Speaker 2: Periscope dot com is always the best place to go.
Speaker 2: My email's on there and there's a bunch of tall
Speaker 2: metaphors that people seem to enjoy it because I'm a
Speaker 2: tall human. So feel free to reach out any point.
Speaker 2: I always get a lovely email or three off your
Speaker 2: listeners every time I want, so thanks, thanks to you,
Speaker 2: and thanks to the listeners for being so awesome and gracious.
Speaker 3: Well say reach out then, because they have to reach
Speaker 3: shirt high.
Speaker 1: I didn't, but I'm going to start doing that more deliberately. Now.
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, get on your tippy toes a thank
Speaker 1: you mate, Well say goodbye fair but two meter Peter,
Speaker 1: it's been fucking great. Thanks team