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Speaker 1: Before we begin.

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Speaker 2: This podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence. This is a

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Speaker 2: production by The Australian and our subscribers Here episodes first

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Speaker 2: and get full access to photos, video, news stories and

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Speaker 2: features plus all Australia's best journalism twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 2: Join us at Gangstersghost dot com dot A.

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Speaker 3: Um, that's very fuss right, no one evens.

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Speaker 4: No, I've been said, no, Okay.

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Speaker 5: That's a look.

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Speaker 6: This is the flower. The drums will rolled under here.

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Speaker 5: And it was card.

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Speaker 7: You would think if you drum roll the drums under there.

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Speaker 6: Would which while there was cladding and ship on the walls.

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Speaker 8: Wow, I'm so excited. That's empty. Oh my god, it's open.

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Speaker 8: Oh my god.

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Speaker 9: Hello, Hello, Hi.

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Speaker 10: Hello.

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Speaker 11: We didn't need to say anything. Kelly Slater Reagan and

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Speaker 11: I just knew, without having to admit it, that all

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Speaker 11: roads would lead back.

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Speaker 12: To this place.

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Speaker 11: After years of research, dozens of interviews, hundreds of documents,

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Speaker 11: and countless hours spent on the phone mulling over the

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Speaker 11: short and furious life of Kelly's second cousin, the gangster

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Speaker 11: Stuart John Reagan, we were always going to end up here,

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Speaker 11: in this two story building at the corner of Saint

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Speaker 11: Paul's Terrace and Amelia Street in Fortitude Valley in Brisbane,

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Speaker 11: inside what used to be the old Whiskey Go Go nightclub,

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Speaker 11: the exact space where fifteen people lost their lives and

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Speaker 11: a clutch of criminals, possibly including Kelly's cousin Stuart John

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Speaker 11: Reagan literally got away with murder.

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Speaker 9: Oh my god, that is so incredible.

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Speaker 6: So you couldn't tell their windows curtains and they were

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Speaker 6: riveted shut.

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Speaker 8: Oh my lord, so I guess for the air conditioning

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Speaker 8: which assisted in sucking the smoke up from the recycling one.

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Speaker 11: And it was humbling to be inside the old Whiskey,

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Speaker 11: knowing what had happened half a century ago, and two

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Speaker 11: drums of fuel were lit in the downstairs foyer. The

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Speaker 11: flames ignited the carpet and walls of the stairwell and

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Speaker 11: sent thick, black smoke into the upstairs club. Many of

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Speaker 11: the fifty or so patrons tried to get out the

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Speaker 11: back exit, but it was locked. Others clambered through windows

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Speaker 11: at the back of the kitchen or at the rear

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Speaker 11: of the band's dressing room. The dead were not burned.

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Speaker 11: They all perished from smoke inhalation.

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Speaker 9: Yes, so the bar was.

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Speaker 8: Along here.

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Speaker 6: And this was the most hence area for the fire

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Speaker 6: because it was burning up the walls and the carpet

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Speaker 6: and windows were blown out here.

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Speaker 7: Oh really yeah, so that would have been with the impact.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, but the rest was smoke funneling into here and

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Speaker 6: they were dead within two to three minutes.

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Speaker 4: Carbon monoxide yeah, yeah, from the carpets.

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Speaker 12: Yeah.

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Speaker 11: And after years of following Reagan's trail, we now know

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Speaker 11: that he was in Brisbane on the night of the

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Speaker 11: Whiskey tragedy, and not after, as the story has always

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Speaker 11: been told, that he was observed in Blinker's nightclub with

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Speaker 11: some sort of injury. That gangster's paddles Anderson and Lenny

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Speaker 11: McPherson and even Reagan himself had been in and out

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Speaker 11: of the Whiskey in the days leading up to the

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Speaker 11: fire bombing. And after our brief, unexpected tour of the Whiskey,

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Speaker 11: we stood outside on the street and tried to take

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Speaker 11: it all in for a while. We studied the brass

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Speaker 11: plaque memorial to the victims embedded in the footpath outside

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Speaker 11: the old club, and unbelievable, we.

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Speaker 9: Got to go in there.

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Speaker 7: I just didn't stand here.

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Speaker 11: I'm journalist Matthew Condon and This is the Gangster's Ghost

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Speaker 11: a podcast from The Australian. My co pilot on the

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Speaker 11: Gangster's Ghost, Kelly Slater. Reagan always suspected and dreaded that

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Speaker 11: we'd find a link between her second cousin and the

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Speaker 11: Whiskey Ego Go nightclub massacre in Brisbane in nineteen seventy three.

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Speaker 11: What she wanted to understand once and for all, however,

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Speaker 11: was whether he actually murdered Carlos Scott Huey, a three

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Speaker 11: year old toddler, just months before Reagan's own assassination in Sydney.

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Speaker 11: This is Episode nine, Carlos. For fifty years, the horror

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Speaker 11: story of what happened at the Whiskey Goog on March eight,

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Speaker 11: nineteen seventy three has never changed. Two rogue criminals, John

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Speaker 11: Andrew Stewart and James Finch decided to burn the club

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Speaker 11: as part of some twisted extortion racket over clubs and

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Speaker 11: pubs in Brisbane. Finch, Billy Kulkan and Clockwork Orange Gang

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Speaker 11: member Tommy Hamilton drove to the club. Finch rolled out

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Speaker 11: two barrels of fuel into the foyer at two eight

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Speaker 11: am and through the match Stewart was in a nearby club,

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Speaker 11: though he supposedly masterminded the attack. The theory was that

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Speaker 11: the whiskey had been part of a so called Southern

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Speaker 11: takeover of the Brisbane vice scene, a warning shot to

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Speaker 11: locals that the city was under new criminal management. The

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Speaker 11: fire was meant to be a scare tactic. No one

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Speaker 11: foresaw that the deadly smoke from the foyer flames would

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Speaker 11: quickly overwhelm the club and within minutes leave fifteen people dead.

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Speaker 11: That wasn't part of the plan. In the end, Finch

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Speaker 11: and Stewart were found guilty of the crime and sentenced

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Speaker 11: to life in prison. Nobody believed the story that big

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Speaker 11: bad gangsters from Sydney wanted to take control of Brisbane.

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Speaker 11: It was a fantasy cooked up by John Andrew Stewart.

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Speaker 11: What wasn't a fantasy was the deadly fire. I spoke

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Speaker 11: to Donna Phillips, who was a waitress working in the

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Speaker 11: club that night and miraculously survived the inferno.

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Speaker 13: Just normal night's work until the event itself. Until eight

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Speaker 13: to ten minutes past two, when I'd come back from

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Speaker 13: the front desk. I'd been put on the front reception

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Speaker 13: by the owners. You know, if the fire was tin

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Speaker 13: passed and I was, I'd had enough time to leave

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Speaker 13: the front reception, come down to the bar, where Dessimer

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Speaker 13: Carroll was one of my co workers, and I got

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Speaker 13: a drink. I don't know whether it was orange juice

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Speaker 13: or water, but it would have been ten minutes so

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Speaker 13: I would have finished to come down, had to drink.

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Speaker 11: Donna, a part time model, had made a lot of

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Speaker 11: good friends at the whiskey, including young mother Decima and

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Speaker 11: a barman called Peter Marcus.

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Speaker 13: And about ten past I've seen fire. I didn't hear anything,

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Speaker 13: but I saw the fire burst through the front door

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Speaker 13: and then catch a light across the curtains. Naturally, because

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Speaker 13: my line of sight also took in Peter Marcas. And

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Speaker 13: I still to this day say that I saw part

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Speaker 13: of his shirt catch fire, and watched him run around

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Speaker 13: the back of the bar, which was facing Amelia Street,

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Speaker 13: and then turn right and then rung down the bar

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Speaker 13: on the side of Saint Paul's Terrace to the end

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Speaker 13: of the bar, and I've seen him kneel down, and

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Speaker 13: I don't know what he was doing, you know, he

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Speaker 13: seemed purposeful, and he did something in the shelf area

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Speaker 13: under the barroom and then just fell forward.

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Speaker 8: In line with the door.

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Speaker 13: The fire has burst through that doorway, caught the curtains,

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Speaker 13: as I mentioned before, and then when I didn't see

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Speaker 13: it burn further than close to Peter on the ground,

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Speaker 13: Peter Marcus. But at that stage and then the lights

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Speaker 13: were starting to appear as though they were going out, and.

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Speaker 8: The smoke was below them. Pad it was black, It

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Speaker 8: was dark.

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Speaker 13: It was dark, Yes, it was dark.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, And moving into the club.

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Speaker 13: Yes, well for me, as I remember it, it was

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Speaker 13: cooling up over the ceiling and running forwards that way.

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Speaker 13: And then because I seemed to be frozen in that moment,

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Speaker 13: my story is that two men passed in front of me,

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Speaker 13: went to the sliding door opened from one of them

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Speaker 13: to and something like, what are you coming now? And

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Speaker 13: you know, it's kind of well, okay, I've better got

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Speaker 13: to go now if I go, and off down the stairs.

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Speaker 11: Against all odds, Donna made it out of the club.

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Speaker 11: Her friends, Decima and Peter were not so lucky. Another

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Speaker 11: survivor was police officer hunt and Nickel, who was enjoying

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Speaker 11: a night out with friends.

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Speaker 10: I honestly and totally on one hundred Temple as I

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Speaker 10: believe that night I was going to die, and I

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Speaker 10: just before I got the window and the fresh air

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Speaker 10: came in, I was on the point of collapse. I

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Speaker 10: remember thinking, God, Mom and Dad's going me dirty. I

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Speaker 10: died this way and then the fresh air hit me.

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Speaker 1: But you resign.

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Speaker 10: I had resigned to the fact that I was dying.

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Speaker 10: And I saw a white light. You did, I did

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Speaker 10: see a white light. Sounds stupid, mind taking over, and

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Speaker 10: I was on point of collapse. I don't know, but

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Speaker 10: I honestly and totally utterly believe I was on the

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Speaker 10: point of dying.

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Speaker 8: And then some fingers of fresh air came in.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, wafted it in through that window. That somebody that

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Speaker 10: that hopper window. Uh, this fresh air came in. I

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Speaker 10: breathe that in fresh air. I'll tell you that it

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Speaker 10: has a sweet taste, a very sweet taste. You can

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Speaker 10: say what you like. Hair has a sweet taste. I

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Speaker 10: breathe a few lungs of that.

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Speaker 14: End.

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Speaker 10: At best, I couldn't have to revive me pushed out

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Speaker 10: white people. I couldn't get out myself. It was touch

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Speaker 10: and goes. I was on the point. Give me another

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Speaker 10: ihreagon five to ten seconds. I was gone. Somebody open

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Speaker 10: that window. Fresh air came in against the smoke. And

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Speaker 10: when you saw how thick pungent that smoke was, how

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Speaker 10: that air got in, I don't know. Bo's enough to

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Speaker 10: revolve us that got out.

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Speaker 11: Visiting the site of the whisky tragedy. Being inside the

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Speaker 11: scene of the mass murder had a big impact on Kelly.

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Speaker 11: Ever since she was a child, Kelly had linked her

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Speaker 11: second cousin, Johnny Reagan with the Whiskey Go Go firebombing

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Speaker 11: through stories repeated by the Reagan family.

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Speaker 9: She had come with.

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Speaker 11: Me on this journey to find the truth about her

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Speaker 11: famous relative, the good, the bad, and the ugly. As

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Speaker 11: she said, when we started out all those years ago,

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Speaker 11: now standing where fifteen people had perished and possibly on

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Speaker 11: Reagan's orders, gotten way more than she'd bargain for. I

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Speaker 11: get the sense from you that you're resigned to the hard,

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Speaker 11: cold fact that it's a very strong possibility Reagan was

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Speaker 11: behind it.

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Speaker 7: Oh, I got no doubts, like where I used to

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Speaker 7: hold out a little hope that what was told through

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Speaker 7: the family couldn't be true.

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Speaker 11: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: No, did you think at the time, if you can

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Speaker 9: remember that, you didn't think it could be true, because

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Speaker 9: even just theoretically, the idea of fifteen people dead at

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Speaker 9: a single moment is too big to comprehend.

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Speaker 7: I think when I was little, I didn't probably put

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Speaker 7: it all together, even when I was in the police,

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Speaker 7: when you fed the same narrative over and over like.

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Speaker 7: It wasn't until I started to really have a good

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Speaker 7: look and then I think, but if he really was

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Speaker 7: involved in the whiskey and he's killed fifteen people, why

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Speaker 7: the hell wasn't he interviewed charged at the inquest.

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Speaker 11: It wasn't a until I spoke to Helen Reagan, Johnny

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Speaker 11: and Marg's oldest daughter, that I learned a startling fact,

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Speaker 11: yet another shocking surprise in the Endless Whisky saga, and

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Speaker 11: something that potentially had huge implications. Who knew that Marg's brother,

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Speaker 11: Jimmy was good friends with James Finch, the convicted whisky

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Speaker 11: killer and the man who attempted to murder Reagan in

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Speaker 11: Sydney in nineteen sixty five. Jimmy was so close to

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Speaker 11: Finch that he even stayed with him in the UK

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Speaker 11: after Finch was released from prison and deported in nineteen

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Speaker 11: eighty eight. I confirmed this friendship with another member of

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Speaker 11: the family. So what did this mean? Reagan's de facto

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Speaker 11: brother in law, if we could call him, that was

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Speaker 11: close mates with a man found guilty of the whisky atrocity.

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Speaker 11: It raised a multitude of questions. In the following exchange,

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Speaker 11: Helen mentions James Stewart, but she really means James Finch.

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Speaker 9: Was the whiskey of Go Go. Ever mentioned in relation

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Speaker 9: to your dad at any point?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard it.

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Speaker 15: I read about it. My uncle, my Lum's brother Jimmy

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Speaker 15: is very close to James Stewart, and he obviously went

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Speaker 15: back to the UK and he just shot my father

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Speaker 15: something like that. And I remember really a sage to

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Speaker 15: like Uncle need Bunny James Stewart, you know, my uncle

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Speaker 15: being my uncle told him and said, you know my niece,

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Speaker 15: she wants to kill you. I know that my father's

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Speaker 15: name is low Up. But again nothing was proven. I mean,

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Speaker 15: I think everyone knows it. James Stewart, my uncle, Jill

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Speaker 15: need mom's brothers in Lacey, James Stewart, he said.

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Speaker 12: He did it.

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Speaker 11: During the height of the Fitzgerald Inquiry into police corruption

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Speaker 11: in Queensland in nineteen eighty eight, a lobby group called

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Speaker 11: the Friends of Finch advocated for his release, claiming he'd

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Speaker 11: been verbaled or fitted up with a false statement by

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Speaker 11: crooked cops like Roger Rogerson when he was first arrested

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Speaker 11: after the fire in nineteen seventy three. That claim may

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Speaker 11: have a grain of truth to it, though Finch himself

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Speaker 11: would later confess to his involvement in the whisky. Still,

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Speaker 11: the Save Finch campaign made headlines, and in an attempt

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Speaker 11: to shore up Finch's innocence, a private detective agency, Walter

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Speaker 11: Cromwell Investigations, was hired to dig into the origins of

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Speaker 11: the fire. If it wasn't Finch, then who was it.

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Speaker 11: Its findings were explosive. I came across an old, yellowed

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Speaker 11: copy of the Cromwell report years ago. Initially I couldn't

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Speaker 11: make much sense of it. I wasn't able to understand

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Speaker 11: the bigger picture. But the more I talked to people

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Speaker 11: over the years about the whisky and the whole Southern

255
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Speaker 11: criminal's takeover theory that psychopath John Andrew Stewart was crowing

256
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Speaker 11: about at the time, the Cromwell finding started to come

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Speaker 11: into greater focus. The seven page report itself was a

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Speaker 11: combination of typewritten text and handwriting, presumably from the hand

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Speaker 11: of the investigator, Walter Cromwell himself. The report was stamped

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Speaker 11: private and confidential. The introduction ominously says.

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Speaker 16: Before embarking onto the summary, it is imperative that the reader,

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Speaker 16: your good self understands that once the enclosed becomes common

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Speaker 16: knowledge to others, my life becomes at high risk.

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Speaker 11: The Cromwell Report concludes that the convicted perpetrators of the crime,

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Speaker 11: John Andrew Stewart and James Finch, were arrested and tried

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Speaker 11: on the orders of Sidney and Melbourne organized crime families.

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Speaker 16: It has been gleaned that the Whiskier Go Go was

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Speaker 16: firebombed on the eighth of March nineteen seventy three by

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Speaker 16: John Stuart Reagan and John Arthur Clark. It has been

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Speaker 16: further established that Reagan and Clark undertook their instructions from

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Speaker 16: Lenny McPherson and Abe Saffron.

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Speaker 11: So Lennie and Abe were setting up their new extortion

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Speaker 11: takeover of Brisbane and they ordered Reagan and his close

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Speaker 11: criminal associate John Ratty Clark to organize the firebombing. Attached

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Speaker 11: to the Cromwell Report were statements from confidential informants. One

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Speaker 11: was a former employee of the Pussy Galore strip club

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Speaker 11: in King's Cross who had befriended a man called David

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Speaker 11: from another strip club. The employee told Cromwell.

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Speaker 17: David had told me that he had known Johnny Reagan

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Speaker 17: and Johnny Clark for many years before they'd gotten too big.

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Speaker 17: David told me that early in nineteen seventy three, Reagan

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Speaker 17: had offered him a job to do. Reagan had wanted

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Speaker 17: him to go to Brisbane and organized with him Reagan

284
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Speaker 17: and a couple of extra guys so they could do

285
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Speaker 17: a burnout on one of the clubs. Reagan had sent

286
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Speaker 17: Johnny Clark to Melbourne to pick up some money from Lenny,

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Speaker 17: as he also had an interest in the stated matter.

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Speaker 17: David told me that he had declined Reagan's offer because

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Speaker 17: he only had just recently gotten out of jail and

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Speaker 17: that he didn't want any trouble with the police, even

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Speaker 17: though Reagan had promised police protection through Lennie McPherson.

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Speaker 11: The informant said that after the Whiskey Fire, David had

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Speaker 11: bumped into Reagan in the Sweetheart's Coffee Lounge in King's Cross.

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Speaker 11: Reagan was allegedly with Ratty Clark and a corrupt police

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Speaker 11: officer called Jimmy. I personally began to wonder if police

296
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Speaker 11: officer Jimmy wasn't in fact Reagan's brothero law. The report

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Speaker 11: went on.

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Speaker 16: David said that he had heard them talking about the

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Speaker 16: Whiskey fire and that Jimmy has asked if there were

300
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Speaker 16: any problems with the job. Reagan plainly said there hadn't

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Speaker 16: been any major problems. David said that Reagan had boasted

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Speaker 16: freely about the fire to just about anyone in the

303
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Speaker 16: cross because it made him the man in town.

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Speaker 11: While the boasting doesn't sound like Reagan, a meticulously cautious criminal,

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Speaker 11: the informant says that Ratty Clark and Reagan seconded the

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Speaker 11: Clockwork Orange Gang and went ahead with the job on

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Speaker 11: their own terms, defying Abe Saffron's instructions and snubbing McPherson. This,

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00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 11: on the other hand, has the ring of truth. As

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Speaker 11: we know Reagan was associated with the Brisbane Clockwork Gang

310
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Speaker 11: through local killer and hitman vince O Dempsey, and such

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Speaker 11: a rash move was in keeping with Reagan's manic and

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Speaker 11: impetuous nature. Remember the hyperactive Reagan of those secret tapes

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Speaker 11: of his Cottay.

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Speaker 18: Couldn't get somebody who put a nice sound on the day.

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Speaker 18: Hey you and you sound out more. That's what's going on.

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Speaker 9: Under the lab.

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Speaker 1: Nothing to do with anybody. Ah well, just go out.

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Speaker 18: He's gone, so I come out to see you. Don't

319
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Speaker 18: find out why I came image. It couldn't go on it.

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Speaker 11: The informant provided valuable information on the details behind this

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Speaker 11: attempted organized crime takeover of Brisbane.

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Speaker 16: McPherson had wanted seventy five percent of any monies that

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Speaker 16: Reagan was to make of the Brisbane standover racket. McPherson

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Speaker 16: was known to share fifty five percent of the collect

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Speaker 16: moneies with Saffron as he was the one with the

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Speaker 16: Queensland Police contacts. After sharing the fifty five percent with Saffron,

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Speaker 16: the remaining twenty percent went to Queensland Police contacts.

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Speaker 11: If the Cromwell report is even remotely true, Reagan, with

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Speaker 11: his Whiskey Go Go caper had crossed a very serious

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Speaker 11: and potentially fatal line. Nobody double crossed Lenny McPherson and

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Speaker 11: Abe Saffron and lived to tell the tale. The story

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Speaker 11: passed down through the Reagan family was that shotgun Johnny

333
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Speaker 11: made a surprise visit to his hometown of Young in

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Speaker 11: southwestern New South Wales after the Whisky tragedy. Kelly's dad, Lindsay,

335
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Speaker 11: was working as a stock and station agent in town

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Speaker 11: at the time. He never knew he had a famous

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Speaker 11: gangster first cousin. He didn't even know his poor old

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Speaker 11: uncle Alf even had a Then Lindsey got the shock

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Speaker 11: of his life when a dark stranger entered the stock agency.

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Speaker 5: And the week after Whisky a Go Go went up,

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Speaker 5: I was in the office, which was right next door

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Speaker 5: to the Australian Hotel, and this gentleman walked in. I

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00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 5: knew who he was without even asking him, because it

344
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 5: was like looking in the mirror. He walked in and

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Speaker 5: he said to me, where's Alf? And I said next door?

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Speaker 5: And he turned on his heel and walked out. Now

347
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Speaker 5: that is the only time I've ever seen John Reagan.

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Speaker 5: That is the only words I've ever spoken to him.

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Speaker 5: That lasted possibly fifteen seconds.

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Speaker 7: Do you know what he spoke to Alf about.

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Speaker 5: I think he just came up, I don't know, to

352
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Speaker 5: spend a bit of time with Uncle Elf. I know

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Speaker 5: he took him out because Uncle Elf told Dad took

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Speaker 5: him out in the car. They went out somewhere. The

355
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 5: rabbit ran across the road and Alf said something about,

356
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Speaker 5: oh I.

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Speaker 12: Wish to John.

358
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 5: Paul gone out of his pocket and said, he shit

359
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 5: this afore old uncle El's Will.

360
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Speaker 12: He fight it?

361
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 11: If Lindsay's memory is accurate, and there's no reason to

362
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 11: think it isn't, then Reagan was seeking out his long

363
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 11: lost father Alf after many years away from young It

364
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 11: was the week after the Whiskey Fire and Reagan was armed.

365
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 11: Perhaps Reagan had just decided it was a good time

366
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Speaker 11: to go and see his dad, to get back to

367
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 11: his roots. Or perhaps it was an opportune moment to

368
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 11: be out of Brisbane and Sydney. I needed to discuss

369
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 11: the whole episode with Kelly.

370
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Speaker 9: There's a lot of things starting to come together, right.

371
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 9: Maybe Reagan had a much bigger role in the Whiskey

372
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Speaker 9: than anyone's ever anticipated.

373
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Speaker 7: Well, maybe the family was right. Maybe yeah, it's I've

374
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Speaker 7: always been adamant that he was involved in the Whiskey

375
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Speaker 7: Go Goo.

376
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Speaker 9: I'm just wondering what they knew which may have been

377
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 9: lost in the midst of time to be so confident

378
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 9: about that.

379
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 7: I'm thinking when John came down and walked into that

380
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 7: office where he's never gone in to see Dad or

381
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 7: Pop before. Ever, He's in such a hurry he wants

382
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 7: to find Uncle Alf quickly. Has he told Alf? He's

383
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 7: told Pop?

384
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Speaker 9: Well, he'd have to explain his sudden appearance in young Yes,

385
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 9: doesn't necessarily mean he has to tell the truth.

386
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 7: Or has he told the truth to his father?

387
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 9: And Alf on the pieces leaked it out at some point.

388
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 7: Well, and now Uncle Alf was very badly drunk for

389
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 7: a long time after he left.

390
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 9: Like a big binge, big binge. Yeah, he loved his father,

391
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 9: didn't he very much?

392
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 12: So, so we.

393
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Speaker 9: Can imagine that he may have been the only person

394
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 9: on earth that he could tell the truth to.

395
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 7: He may well have. Yeah, And I know he's scared

396
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 7: Uncle Alf, like I told you at the time when

397
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 7: he had the gun and he went on a bender. Again,

398
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 7: John must have been in an all sort of hurry

399
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 7: to come in and speak to Dad. He's never done

400
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 7: that before. He's never walked in to find Uncle Alf

401
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 7: before in there and he's walked in and ask Dad's

402
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 7: told him he's gone. Has he told Uncle Alf? And

403
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 7: has Uncle Alf Toldplop he's dead set? Would have told PLoP.

404
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 11: Remember this was a died in the wool Country family.

405
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 11: Pop was the patriarch. There were few secrets in such

406
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 11: a small town, and Johnny Reagan's sudden appearance after being

407
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 11: absent for many years would have caused a stir in young.

408
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 9: So let's just theorize here for a second. I mean,

409
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 9: not speculation, but let's just theorize. Say you're Reagan, You've

410
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 9: been in Brisbane, You're doing some business. A hasty decision

411
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 9: is made to potentially eliminate competition on the club scene,

412
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 9: and someone else is going to get some money out

413
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 9: of it for an insurance job. Yep, you hire your

414
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 9: underlings to do it. And that's exactly what our source

415
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 9: said in the documents earlier that mcculkin i, Dempsey and

416
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 9: others or members of the Clockwork Orange Gang were occasionally

417
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 9: tapped on the shoulder to do odd jobs for Reagan.

418
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 9: Say you do this job, No one anticipates fifteen people

419
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 9: perish in the fire. Yep, suddenly you potentially up for

420
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 9: fifteen counts of murder. Where would you run to at

421
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 9: a time of the greatest moment of fear in your

422
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 9: criminal career? You'd go to someone you trust, and you'd

423
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 9: go home, wouldn't you.

424
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 7: You'd go home.

425
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 11: In May nineteen seventy four, a little over a year

426
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 11: after the mass murder, and a few months after Whiskey witnessed,

427
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 11: Barbara mcculchin and her two young daughters went missing in Brisbane,

428
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 11: Reagan was back in Sydney, the usual frenetic puppet master

429
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 11: to dozens of his money making scams. He was now

430
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 11: father to three children with marg his son JP, Helen,

431
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 11: and the youngest Claire, who was eighteen months old. She

432
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 11: was named after Reagan's mother, The Colonel Reagan, though was

433
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 11: hardly the picture of a faithful and demure suburban father,

434
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 11: He was still playing the field and had become attached

435
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 11: to a young woman called Helen Scott Huey, a young

436
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 11: croupier at the Golden Club in Haymarket in Inner Sydney,

437
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 11: reputed to be the biggest illegal casino in the city.

438
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 11: Scott Huey had a three year old child, Carlos, to

439
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 11: another man. On the evening of Tuesday May twenty one,

440
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 11: nineteen seventy four, Reagan and Helen went out for dinner

441
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 11: before returning to her flat in Oxford Street, Paddington.

442
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 9: Watch some TV.

443
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 11: Reagan said he'd stay and look after Carlos, and by

444
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 11: the time Helen left for her early morning shift at

445
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 11: the casino, Reagan and the child were fast asleep in bed.

446
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 11: At about two am on Wednesday, May twenty two, Reagan

447
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 11: supposedly awoke, bundled little Carlos into his car, and drove

448
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 11: the short distance to Taylor Square on Oxford Street to

449
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 11: his favorite newspaper stand, one of the few in the

450
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 11: city that carried the first editions fresh off the press

451
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 11: of that day's newspapers. Reagan was a news junkie, and

452
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 11: like most crooks with a healthy ego, he probably had

453
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 11: half an eye on seeing if his name was mentioned

454
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 11: by the press.

455
00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 19: I'm here in Taylor Square in Sydney, the Oxford Street.

456
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 19: We're at Intersex with Burke Street, and this is the

457
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 19: exact spot where Johnny Reagan, as was his custom, came

458
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 19: up here, parked his car down the side here where

459
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 19: the Oxford Bar is now, and popped out in the

460
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 19: early morning to get that day's edition of the newspapers,

461
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 19: leaving little Carlos Scott Huey the toddler in the car.

462
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 19: Reagan claims it when he got back Carlos was not

463
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 19: in the car and had effectively disappeared. So it was

464
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 19: right on this spot all those years ago where this

465
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 19: alleged kidnapping of Carlos occurred.

466
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 9: Did Reagan murder that boy? I don't know.

467
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 19: We've been trying to find out, Kelly and I. It's

468
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 19: been one of the focuses of our investigation into Reagan,

469
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 19: obviously given it involved.

470
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 9: An innocent toddler.

471
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 11: There has been speculation that Reagan dropped into a nearby

472
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 11: illegal casino run by bookmaker Moe Reynolds and picked up

473
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 11: some of his protection money before buying his newspapers. Reagan

474
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 11: claimed that the little boy was nowhere to be found

475
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 11: by the time he got back to the vehicle. The

476
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 11: disappearance certainly fitted the supposed modus operandi of someone known

477
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 11: as Nano, the Magician, the man who could make people vanish.

478
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 11: But the glaring question was why Why would Reagan bring

479
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 11: attention to himself by murdering a child? Why would he

480
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 11: then put himself through the inherent complications of such a

481
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 11: grotesque act. Did that famous inner tiger emerge and suddenly snap?

482
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 11: Did the child annoy Reagan and then was accidentally killed

483
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 11: in an act of punishment that went too far. You'll

484
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 11: remember former drug squad detective Michael Drury, the honest police

485
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 11: officer who survived an assassination attempt by corrupt cop Roger Rogerson.

486
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 11: Mick remembers the case of Carlos Scott Huey and said

487
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 11: it was the talk of the police across Sydney soon

488
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 11: after it happened.

489
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 20: It was in a period of less than a week

490
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 20: after the disappearance of the child that the word was out,

491
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 20: in particular with police from Darlinghurst, that the child had

492
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 20: been murdered and Stuart John Reagan was the offer, but

493
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 20: they didn't know what happened to the body. For him

494
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 20: to walk up there to get a newspaper and come

495
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 20: back to the car, it just does not ring true.

496
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 20: It does not ring true. If there was any truth

497
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 20: in the rumor that the child was kidnapped, and he

498
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 20: was genuine, whether it be Stuart John Reagan or not,

499
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 20: I would expect him not to leave that location, but

500
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 20: to walk fifty meters at the very most across the

501
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 20: road to Darlinghurth's police station and in a fit of

502
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 20: great depression call upon the police to investigate the so

503
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 20: called disappearance, kidnapping of this child from his car, and

504
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 20: I believe I'm correct in saying that never took place.

505
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 20: Hence I find that exceedingly concerning.

506
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 8: Well, it's interesting he was the talk of the police.

507
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 20: Oh yes, yes, not only the uniform police, but the detectives.

508
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 12: A darlingers at the time.

509
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 20: I don't know who investigated the disappearance of the child,

510
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 20: but yes, I clearly remember.

511
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 21: From your experience, what would have been the attitude of

512
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 21: his fellow criminals to a person who had allegedly murdered

513
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 21: an innocent child.

514
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 20: Look, even amongst criminals, that type of behavior, it was

515
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 20: absolutely unacceptable. There are certain things you can do which

516
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 20: to the average person like yourself and myself, would give

517
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 20: us gray hair, But that type of behavior was just

518
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 20: totally unacceptable.

519
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 11: The Sydney Morning Herald reported on page one a few

520
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 11: days later that a five thousand dollars reward had been

521
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 11: posted for Carlos's safe return.

522
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 22: Police said last night that it had been offered by

523
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 22: a close friend of the boy's mother, missus Helen Scott Huey.

524
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 11: That friend was none other than Reagan himself. His de

525
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 11: facto wife, marg recalls that terrible time, she wondered if

526
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 11: Carlos's disappearance hadn't been a case of mistaken identity.

527
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: When I heard that Carlos and I met, Carlos was

528
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: gone and John had gone to get his normal newspaper

529
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: in Dulness Oxford Street, which he would go over night

530
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: to get that newspaper at that same stem.

531
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 8: Why would he do that?

532
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: It's always done it. He was a great friend to

533
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: reading the newspapers and see what's going on in the world.

534
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: He always did that.

535
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 8: I mean that was early hours of the morning. Did

536
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 8: he sleep much.

537
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,959
Speaker 1: I don't think he ever sick, really, but I can't

538
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: only remember that man relacable. And so when that happened

539
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 1: and Carlos went missing, I immediately thought that they thought

540
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: that was his son, my son, and they were taken

541
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: him for some sort of revenge. I really thought that

542
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: they thought Carlos was my son.

543
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 8: How did you meet Carlos?

544
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: He had seen the other woman Helen's got you, and

545
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: he had the child with him one.

546
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 8: Day, brought him home to your home in the car.

547
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: Probably I can't remember where I factly met him. So

548
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: in the end I knew he was having a relationship

549
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,959
Speaker 1: with Alan Scott, You and she knew.

550
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 11: I knew Mark then and now doesn't believe Reagan was

551
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 11: responsible for Carlos's disappearance.

552
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 8: You don't believe he armed Carlos.

553
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: No, I do not. Why because I've seen him with

554
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: kids and I don't believe him. I've seen him with

555
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: his own daughters. I've seen him with my son. No,

556
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: I do not. And you knew Helen Scott, Yes, I did.

557
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 8: She didn't believe that either.

558
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: No, she didn't. When Carlos went missing and I got

559
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: closer to Helen got even though she was having a

560
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: relationship with John, didn't. She had no one to talk

561
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: to her about this. She never believed that John did it.

562
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: She told you that, yes she did.

563
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 8: Did she have any idea who might have done it?

564
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: She never said if she did have any idea.

565
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 8: I didn't think it was John.

566
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: She never thought it.

567
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 8: Was John, and you both shared that same view.

568
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 1: Same view. But that doesn't mean that she didn't think

569
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: it but didn't want to say it, because I remember

570
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: I was the one that's been around longer than the

571
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: rest of it. I don't know. I didn't feel that

572
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: with her. I don't think she ever went into any

573
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: investigation about what happened to Carlos.

574
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 8: What it was her child? Why wouldn't anyone do that?

575
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: I don't know or didn't shet okay, ye understand that

576
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: did Johnny ever mentioned that situation to you?

577
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 8: Carlos, of course I wouldn't have a child or of course.

578
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: And him I do believe I do.

579
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 8: And was he angry about being accused of that?

580
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: Certainly? Certainly? But then I don't know the connection we

581
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: had with talents got Louis. Was she in the same

582
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: situation I was in? Not wanting to voice her obledion

583
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: because if someone comes to you and says that John

584
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: sink your son, you don't go wow. I don't know

585
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 1: if she did what she did? Not cannot tell you.

586
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: Was it she investigating her son's disappearance?

587
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 8: And John didn't offer any other explanation as to who

588
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 8: might have snatched.

589
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 12: The child, Not to me.

590
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: He may have to who, Not to me.

591
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 8: He didn't say he thought he was being set up.

592
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: He would say I didn't do this. I never would

593
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: do this kind of thing. I would never to this time,

594
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: I'm seventy four years of age. I believed that he

595
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: did not have anything to do with Carlos So how.

596
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 8: Can we explained Carlos's disappearance? Why was that child taste?

597
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 8: And for what purpose? You thought it might have been JP?

598
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 8: I thought it was JP.

599
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: Either that or an accident happened with the mother and

600
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 1: the child or with John and the child. I don't

601
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: know what happens happened. You see it all the time

602
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: in the news today. You know, just his head on

603
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: the wall. Oh, we didn't do it. I don't know

604
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: what happened to that child. And you know what, it's

605
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: just like someone who told him don't bother to investigate.

606
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: If someone told me not to investigate the death of

607
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: any of my children or my family, I'll be there

608
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: opening the doors. So I can't understand that this is

609
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: her son, her son. He was a beautiful looking boy,

610
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: and just nothing was opened about it. Why I have

611
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: to question that? Why because she hadn't awarness two gene

612
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: reason that told you Chap. I don't know.

613
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 11: It's natural for marg the mother of three of Reagan's children,

614
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 11: to not want to believe that he was capable of

615
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 11: murdering a three year old boy. That was an act that,

616
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 11: as Michael Drewy said, was absolutely unacceptable for many unimaginable. Interestingly,

617
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 11: Carlos's disappearance and presumed murder momentarily drew marg and Helen

618
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 11: Scott Huey close together. But for marg that friendship raised

619
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 11: as many questions as it answered.

620
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 8: Did you stay in touch with her for long?

621
00:41:59,320 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 13: Yeah?

622
00:41:59,520 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 9: I did.

623
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: I did start in touch with her for a few months,

624
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: and then she just wait, it's after she disappeared.

625
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 8: Really she wasn't around. Did you got query or us

626
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 8: feedba wears Helen. Of course he did.

627
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: I don't know where she went. We weren't enemies. I

628
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 1: wasn't her enemy. The sorrow I felt for that woman

629
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: was so immense. That that woman had just lost her child, well,

630
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: her child disappeared. Where is he is? Anyone bothered to

631
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: find out where this kid is?

632
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 11: Margan Reagan's daughter Helen, had fond memories of Helen Scott Huey.

633
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 11: They were little Helen and big Helen. Big Helen stayed

634
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 11: in their lives after Carlos vanished, and even after Reagan

635
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 11: himself was murdered.

636
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 15: She was a big chart of our lives.

637
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: We hadn't heard from her. She lived in Enfield with

638
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: her mother.

639
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 15: She's got a green cherry chitch you know when my

640
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 15: dad trust away, she was always around. You know, we

641
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 15: all hang out together. She was my mum's friend and

642
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 15: probably my mum's taught person when she was going through

643
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 15: what she went through.

644
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 9: I mean, if your dad had murdered her child, why

645
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 9: would she hang around?

646
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a thing.

647
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 15: My father was set up. I just say that happening.

648
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 12: You know.

649
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 11: I spoke to one source, let's call him Joe, who

650
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 11: lived near Helen, Scott Huey and her son at the

651
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 11: time and remembered the chaos when Carlos disappeared. Joe had

652
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 11: been around the block and while not a criminal, was

653
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 11: acquainted with some members of the underworld.

654
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 12: Oh well, gone after killing a little kid.

655
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 9: Do you remember that? I mean I do remember that

656
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:57,959
Speaker 9: little kid?

657
00:43:59,480 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: That was That.

658
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 12: Was Helen's Helen. What's that, Scott Huey.

659
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 9: That was Carlos.

660
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, little Carlos. Yeah, he definitely.

661
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 9: Yeah. I mean once you once you labeled the child killer.

662
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 12: She used to live close to where Knoxas Street. Is

663
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 12: that right?

664
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 9: Did you ever ever run into it?

665
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 4: No?

666
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah?

667
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 12: Yeah?

668
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

669
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 12: What was she like? She's a bit of a knock.

670
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 12: She's quite a nice girl. You know, I always liked her.

671
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 11: When Carlos finished, Joe witnessed the boy's mother in absolute distress.

672
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 12: She was screaming, and that killer. Everyone hated him for

673
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 12: what he did.

674
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 9: And it's mainly the kid, isn't it.

675
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 12: Well? I mean, now I could get murdering three your

676
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 12: old kid, cause he screw on his mother and she

677
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 12: wasn't really happy the way he was treating the kids.

678
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 12: It's one of the last things you could ever do,

679
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 12: in my opinion, Blake, and he got what.

680
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 9: He des Did you ever actually meet him?

681
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 12: Funny enough, he used to go to a friend of

682
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 12: mine's place all the time, and he was mixed up

683
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 12: in the two up on the casino at Darlinghurst. The

684
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 12: Forbes Club and the region used to go and see

685
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 12: him all the time, and they were giving him money

686
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 12: to keep him where they wanted him, you know, when

687
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 12: the time was right.

688
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 9: And Helen Scott Huey was a dealer at the Golden Club.

689
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 9: I've read that a few times.

690
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 12: Yes, I think she was. She was quite a nice girl.

691
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 12: I was there when that all took place. You know,

692
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 12: Johnny Reagan and took that little boy and took his life,

693
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 12: absolutely ruined Helen's life.

694
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 9: You saw Helen at that terrible moment of distress.

695
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 12: She should have thinned, and she was screaming, what I

696
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 12: just said? What the that's wrong with your girl? That

697
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 12: she just said he killed my son? I couldn't believe it.

698
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 9: She was a mother in genuine grief, as you.

699
00:45:54,600 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 12: Saw, genuine grief, I mean genuine grief. And I the

700
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 12: best I could.

701
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 9: You know, Well, how can you console someone like that?

702
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 9: I mean, you lose a child.

703
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 12: It's just well you can't. You can't. You know, she

704
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 12: didn't know, but I let a couple of people know

705
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 12: that I bumped into him. I think with all their

706
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 12: connections in that way, I knew that it was true.

707
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 12: And you know, when the police said he had to go,

708
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 12: he had to go.

709
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 9: And did you get a feeling I'm not asking you

710
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 9: directly if you heard it from anyone, but did you

711
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 9: get a sense from when Carlos went missing to the

712
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 9: day Reagan was shot dead that something was going to

713
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 9: happen to him?

714
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 12: Oh? Definitely. Hey, imagine if someone murdered your little son

715
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 12: at say six year old or four year old, how

716
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 12: would you feel. Imagine if someone raped your little daughter

717
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 12: at six?

718
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 9: Oh my god, these people are that evil, So Reagan

719
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 9: was a dead man walking.

720
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 12: Fuck it even today. If you did that, I reckon,

721
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 12: there'd be a dead man walking.

722
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 11: You'll remember Fred Froggy Cray, the corrupt and alcoholic former

723
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 11: detective who was forced into retirement following brothel Madame Shirley

724
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 11: Brifman's whistle blowing on national television. Cray, a lover of Brifman's,

725
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 11: was retired medically unfit from the New South Wales Police

726
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 11: after the Brifman allegations aired. For a time, Cray was

727
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 11: suspected of having murdered Brifman. To make ends meet. In retirement,

728
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 11: Cray opened Epitome Investigations, a private eye firm based in

729
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 11: Byrell Street, Waverley in Sydney's East. At the time Carlos disappeared,

730
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 11: Cray's Epitome Investigations had somehow scored a contract with Sydney's

731
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 11: popular The Sun daily newspaper. He was an ex ace

732
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 11: detective with a thousand contacts who had his finger on

733
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,439
Speaker 11: the pulse of the Sydney Underworld. Part of Cray's job

734
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 11: as advisor to the Sun, then owned by John Fairfax,

735
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 11: was to issue regular tip offs, alerts and bulletins about

736
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 11: potential news stories that the tabloids should be following, all

737
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 11: typed neatly on a Pitame investigation's letterhead. Kelly and I

738
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 11: have found a cachet of epitome documents in the Fairfax

739
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 11: Archives held in the State Library of New South Wales,

740
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 11: and several of those cray memos could easily lay claim

741
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 11: to contributing to the strength of the argument that Reagan

742
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 11: was now the worst of the worst, a child killer.

743
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 11: Less than a week after Carlos disappeared, Craye wrote to

744
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 11: The Sun under the subheading Stuart John Reagan.

745
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 22: There appears no doubt that he has murdered Carlos Scott

746
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 22: Hughey and would have no fears of the fire five

747
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 22: thousand dollars reward being collected. If the police get even

748
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 22: the smallest amount of evidence, they would have to charge him.

749
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 22: I feel that any newspaper which keeps on the back

750
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 22: of the police department as to results of investigation of

751
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 22: the disappearance of this child would be doing a public service,

752
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 22: as there is no doubt that Reagan is a psychopathic killer.

753
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 11: No trace of Carlos has ever been found, as far

754
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 11: as we can tell, no inquest has ever been held

755
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 11: into his presumed murder. As from motive, the only one

756
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 11: offered was that the child somehow annoyed or aggravated Reagan

757
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 11: enough for him to cold bloodedly kill the boy. It

758
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 11: may have happened that way, but unsolved crimes, especially those

759
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 11: that drift into years and then decades, tend to spawn

760
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 11: theories upon theories, and over time they can become so

761
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 11: incredible that they defy logic. What if, as marg suggested,

762
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 11: Carlos wasn't the target but Reagan's own young son, JP,

763
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 11: and that this was a case of mistaken identity that

764
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 11: would suggest that somebody else had pre planned the kidnapping,

765
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 11: monitored Reagan's movements, and struck at the precise moment Reagan

766
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 11: had a child in his car in the early hours

767
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 11: of the morning, necessitating Reagan having to step away from

768
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 11: the car in order to carry out the abduction. That

769
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 11: sounds far too complex and heavily reliant on dumb good

770
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 11: luck to ever work. And why target Reagan's own only

771
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 11: son to blackmail him revenge for Reagan's many transgressions in

772
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 11: the underworld and for him getting too big for his boots. Again,

773
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 11: too messy and complicated. But what if just what if

774
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 11: the child was vanished in order to brand Reagan as

775
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 11: that most hated of creatures, that most universally despised of monsters,

776
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 11: a child killer? And what if that mantle of child

777
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 11: killer hanging around Reagan's neck effectively gave the green light

778
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 11: to Reagan's own extermination. As it turned out, one of

779
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 11: Reagan's criminal and business associates at the time actually had

780
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 11: form in murdering children. That man was Vincent o'dempsey from

781
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 11: Queen's Land, currently serving life in prison for the murder

782
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 11: of mother Barbara mculchin and her two daughters, Vicki thirteen

783
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 11: and Leanne eleven, in nineteen seventy four. Barbara just may

784
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 11: have known too much about the real perpetrators behind the

785
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 11: Whiskey Go Go fire bombing. The bodies of Barbara and

786
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 11: the girls have never been found. In the months after

787
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 11: the Mculkin murders, Vince went on the run with his

788
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 11: partner Diane Pritchard, and for a while they stayed with

789
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 11: one of Vince's criminal associates in Hawk's Nest north of Newcastle. Vince,

790
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 11: as we've already explored, worked occasionally for Paddles Anderson in

791
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 11: Sydney and knew Reagan well. They'd bought some land together

792
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 11: in Vince's hometown of Warwick, southwest of Brisbane. Vince emulated Reagan.

793
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 11: He didn't drink or smoke like Reagan. He was obsessed

794
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,760
Speaker 11: with the latest technology like Reagan. He had a growing

795
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 11: reputation as a gun for hire, and he had a

796
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 11: simple maxim that he lived by business is business. If

797
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 11: a job needed to be done, he got it done.

798
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 11: I spoke to the associate and he recalled Vince and

799
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 11: Diane getting into an argument. After the blow up, Diana

800
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 11: alleged to the associate that Vince told her he had

801
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 11: killed a small child. We have changed the associate's voice

802
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 11: for his protection. He theorized about Carlos's death.

803
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 14: Why would the child have been killed? Would be a boy?

804
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,959
Speaker 9: Well, let's just say, theoretically, say Reagan killed the child?

805
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 9: What was in it for him?

806
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 14: What Diane said that time? I looked at her as

807
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 14: if she was better, bught you poor slid through? Well,

808
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 14: I thought she was talking about his kids, his kids,

809
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 14: that I read that article of Penny, so the drop

810
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 14: would be completely wrong. He killed some kid with stuff

811
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 14: of choer and he got a boy the ankles and

812
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 14: spashts aid into the wall, stuffy, and that's something he'd do.

813
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 12: He had the contolishing that he had to do.

814
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 14: There's a lot of people I had that have killed

815
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 14: a lot of people who got a lot like as

816
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 14: m secret that cool people, but it's not a conpolishing.

817
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 12: Did's have to do it?

818
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 11: Who killed Carlos? Where was his mother? Helen Scott Huey?

819
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 11: She had vanished from the lives of the Reagans sometime

820
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 11: in the late nineteen seventies and seemingly off the face

821
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 11: of the earth. Where is that little boy? If he

822
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 11: was alive today, he it would be fifty four years old.

823
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 11: And who went looking for him? We understand Helen Scott

824
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 11: Huey's family made earnest attempts to locate the child, But

825
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 11: how can a toddler simply evaporate into thin air? Those

826
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 11: questions took me full circle, all the way back to

827
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 11: my first ever meeting with Kelly Slater, reagan second cousin.

828
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 4: Honestly, I don't know exactly what we'll find. I know

829
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 4: we'll find that he probably killed people. Will we find

830
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 4: did he kill that little boy? That's something I'd really

831
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 4: like to Carlos yep, And I'm resigned to the fact

832
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 4: that if he did, but I'm hopeful of it. Given't

833
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 4: the whiskey gago, What was his involvement in that? Was

834
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 4: he a psychopath? Like they said? Is the stories that

835
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 4: they tell about him truth?

836
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 11: Stuart John Reagan was probably the last of the old

837
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 11: time gangsters. He was ruthless, He was violent. He was

838
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 11: always armed and on the lookout for danger. He wore

839
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 11: a bullet proof vest when he needed to. He almost

840
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 11: always was accompanied by a bodyguard. Everyone we spoke to

841
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 11: bar Nunn, who knew Reagan, said he could instill fear

842
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 11: by just walking into a room, and you never ever

843
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 11: wanted to get on his wrong side. In the end,

844
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 11: no matter what his strengths, he was a marked man.

845
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 11: Precisely four months after Carlos disappeared, and after a pleasant

846
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 11: Sunday out with his oldest daughter Helen at Sydney's Watson's Bay, Reagan, unarmed,

847
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 11: casually walked down a Marrickville street on his way to

848
00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 11: a pre arranged meeting and straight into the sights of

849
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 11: four thirty eight caliber pistols. In the final episode of

850
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 11: The Gangster's.

851
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 15: Ghost People Check reminding me your father was a gangster.

852
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: That's me.

853
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 12: He was like he ow the Father.

854
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: The Gangster's Ghost is a production of The Australian. It's

855
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: written and presented by senior writer Matthew Condon and edited

856
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 2: by multimedia editor Leat Sammergloom. Our executive producer is Me

857
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: Editorial director Claire Harvey. Special thanks to Lara Kamenos, Erica Rutliche,

858
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 2: Kristin Amiot, Jasper Leiku, Stephanie Coombs, Sean Callanan, Lachland, Clear,

859
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: Ryan Osland, Amanda win Williams, Christine Kellett, Tarn Blackhurst, Magdalena Zadak,

860
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: Giselle Boetti, Genevieve Brammel, Lauren Bruce, Sus Rolf and Kenny Carlson.

861
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 2: We can only do journalism like this with the support

862
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,000
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863
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864
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: Australia's best journalism twenty four to seven. Join us at

865
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,800
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