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Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gaddigal Land Always was, always

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Speaker 1: will be Aboriginal Land.

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Speaker 2: Hey Jixi'm zeal And. This is who broke Chicks to

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Speaker 2: show that she has life lessons and tips to help

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Speaker 2: make you rich in life. And today we are so

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Speaker 2: excited we are joined by an absolute modern day power house.

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Speaker 2: She's founded multiple businesses, including Tala, and she's also the

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Speaker 2: host of the podcast Working Hard.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, Grace Beverly.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. Oh my god, this is so exciting. Thank you.

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Speaker 4: And she's also.

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Speaker 3: For like so long, so this is so exciting.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah. Well, you guys are one of the

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Speaker 4: first people I wanted to get on when I came here.

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Speaker 1: So the is mutual best friends, flirting godmother of your

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Speaker 1: future child baby.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, oh yeah, she just kicked she says, yeah,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, Yes, you weren't there. We were talking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was actually yeah, we actually had a private

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Speaker 3: d M.

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Speaker 4: Did you want BBM No Black Messenger? Black birr is

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Speaker 4: a big thing here. Sorry to leave you out, but

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Speaker 4: it's the like people used to put in like their

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Speaker 4: BBM status, so like you'd someone would spend a week

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Speaker 4: on with someone or see someone on a Saturday, and

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Speaker 4: it would be like, your BBM station is like really short,

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Speaker 4: so it would be like your name, or you'd put

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Speaker 4: them in your like BBM name shout yeah, so it

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Speaker 4: would be like Grace and then it would be like

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Speaker 4: hot Alex or like something like that, and like, don't

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Speaker 4: you don't like I. You'd see it pop up and

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Speaker 4: you'd be.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh my god, don't you remember when? Do you

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Speaker 1: remember when Snapchat would rank who this? Yes? But then

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Speaker 1: they started revealing if the guy you're talking to was

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Speaker 1: a dirty dog because there was an emoji if you

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Speaker 1: were both each other's Yes, snapchat up, but there was

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Speaker 1: an emoji if they were yours but you weren't there.

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Speaker 4: So my friend found out that her boyfriend was cheating

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Speaker 4: by that. No, I have another friend who found out

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Speaker 4: that boyfriend was cheating via snap maps. Shut the fuck

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Speaker 4: because she was like, I know that house. Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: But before we get into the episode, which I wish,

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Speaker 2: we could just talk about snapchat all day long, but

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Speaker 2: we like to start with our life lessons of the week,

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Speaker 2: So would you like to kick us off?

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Speaker 4: I'm god, I have to kick you off.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to week and start if you want us.

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Speaker 4: To give you Okay.

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Speaker 1: So my life lesson of the week is a clip

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Speaker 1: that I saw from Giggly Squad's Tiki talkie, and it

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Speaker 1: was that the difference between anxiety and intuition is that

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Speaker 1: anxiety is a question.

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Speaker 3: Mmmm, so if you're gonnall me more.

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Speaker 4: More, tell me? So, if you're like, is he cheating

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Speaker 4: on me?

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Speaker 3: That's anxiety, oh, where intuition is more of a fact.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where you go, I think he's cheating on me,

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Speaker 1: that's intuition because most of the time, if you're going

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Speaker 1: from that, you're probably pulling in on evidence.

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Speaker 3: You're pulling in from your gut.

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Speaker 1: And the other difference is that anxiety it feels like

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Speaker 1: it's in your head, whereas intuition feels like it comes

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Speaker 1: from your gut. So if you are whirling in your brain,

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Speaker 1: that's anxiety.

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Speaker 3: If you get the tummy drop, that's intuition.

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Speaker 4: That's really interesting. Yeah, I feel like that makes me

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Speaker 4: think about the fact that one thing I've realized at

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Speaker 4: the pasty And this is not my life less of

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Speaker 4: a Week. I will provide you with another. But I

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Speaker 4: there was like this article that was basically saying that

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Speaker 4: your phone it was like the whole point of the

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Speaker 4: article was that your phone is the reason you don't

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Speaker 4: feel sexy, but more what I took out of it

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Speaker 4: was it's basically it was talking about the fact that

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Speaker 4: your phone makes you in your head all the time,

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Speaker 4: whereas in reality, like in past generations, you've probably been

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Speaker 4: in your body just as much as you're in your head.

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Speaker 4: So like say you're walking around, you're sitting in a cafe,

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Speaker 4: say you're waiting for a plane, and say, like whatever,

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Speaker 4: it might be like you're in your body, you're not

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Speaker 4: in your head just like existing exactly like you just

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Speaker 4: you're not thinking all the time as in not to

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Speaker 4: such like a I don't know, like constant analysis, like

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Speaker 4: all of these different things, and your phone puts you

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Speaker 4: in that way because you're constantly in that like learning,

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Speaker 4: absorbing information, coming in mindset, which I feel like. I

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Speaker 4: was like, oh, that's so true. I'm never in my body,

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Speaker 4: and now I try and like put myself into my

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Speaker 4: body more times of the day. So I try and

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Speaker 4: like even if I'm walking from one place to another,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, do I need music to do this? Like

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Speaker 4: as in should I just have a walk? Yes? And

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Speaker 4: then I try and do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even showers.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, I don't remember the last time I

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Speaker 1: went to the toilet and didn't take my phone with me.

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Speaker 4: Well exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, I don't know, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of star like that's where I draw the line.

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Speaker 4: But it's true. It's like, no wonder we have such

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Speaker 4: increased anxiety when actually we allow ourselves to be in

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Speaker 4: our heads when are meant to be in our bodies.

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Speaker 4: And I feel like we can actually feel that, Like

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Speaker 4: you feel the difference, just like you were saying with

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Speaker 4: like head and gut, can I feel that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Come you just one hundred percent can tell. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's like when you go into the gut brain

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Speaker 1: relation and we need to be in gut more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, get in.

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Speaker 3: Your gun A primal year, A year to gat.

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Speaker 4: I like that.

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Speaker 2: My life lesson of the way is really serious. And

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Speaker 2: it's that when you're standing on a set of stairs,

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Speaker 2: you're never standing backwards.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, I hate this, what happened?

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Speaker 3: How crazy is that?

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Speaker 4: I just got it right? Did you get it?

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Speaker 1: I feel because you're either facing down or you're facing up,

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Speaker 1: so you're never backwards.

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Speaker 4: How weird?

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Speaker 1: Is that I don't like that that my anxiety just

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Speaker 1: asked a question buck in her head.

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Speaker 4: I know, what have you done.

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Speaker 3: You're the gut is over, You're the guy is dead.

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Speaker 3: Get on the stands now.

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Speaker 4: Everyone's boys everywhere after all.

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Speaker 3: Now not for them.

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Speaker 4: I can have the gut exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yea, yeah, okay, what's your life erson of the week.

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Speaker 4: So I'd say my life lesson is I'm bringing back

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Speaker 4: lucky girl syndrome, which is like, yeah, this is great

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Speaker 4: for you. But I just think that, like I was

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Speaker 4: once really in my Lucky Girl's syndrome vibe, and then

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Speaker 4: it's easy to get out of it. And I mean

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Speaker 4: it in terms of like a headspace, like you know

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Speaker 4: when you just repeat to yourself again and again, like

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Speaker 4: everything just works out for me. Everything just works out

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Speaker 4: for me, and you just you just gotta believe it. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: And I feel like that's one thing that I've like,

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Speaker 4: really I've tried to it's having its renaissance in my

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Speaker 4: life at the moment, and I feel like it's you've

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Speaker 4: just got to put in the work to do it,

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Speaker 4: because it's very easy to get into the groove of

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Speaker 4: just like going around and being like Okay, oh this

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Speaker 4: is annoying, like I missed the bus or like this happened,

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Speaker 4: all this happened, And it's like, realistically, how many times

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Speaker 4: do those things happen and not have a way of

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Speaker 4: like figuring themselves out or like ending in the right place,

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Speaker 4: or like whatever it might be. And I just think that, actually,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm back to it. I'm back to

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Speaker 4: everything that goes slightly wrong. It's like, oh, well, everything

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Speaker 4: works out for me, so it's not gone wrong. There

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Speaker 4: must be like a reason.

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Speaker 1: In redirection, you've like the brain spotlight on the good vibe, yeah,

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Speaker 1: rather than the brain spotlight on the bad vibe exactly.

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Speaker 4: And I just like thinking of myself as a lucky girl.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And because when you're not in that headspace as well,

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Speaker 2: even when good things do happen, you say them more

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Speaker 2: as a checklist.

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Speaker 4: It's it's like yellow car theory.

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Speaker 1: I like you say that when you're looking out for

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Speaker 1: a yellow car.

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Speaker 4: I'm just like, the reason I look so confused is

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Speaker 4: because I was like, I just said this wrong, the

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Speaker 4: wrong car. But it's like when you say you're gonna fight,

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Speaker 4: like you're looking for something and you start noticing them more.

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Speaker 4: Otherwise you don't notice the yellow cars. So it's like

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Speaker 4: that's the same with your luck. It's like you allow

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Speaker 4: yourself to notice the things that go right, whereas like

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Speaker 4: if you're negatively biased, you constantly notice the things that

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Speaker 4: go wrong. And actually, just like I had such a

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Speaker 4: day yesterday where I was just like, I'm so lucky.

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Speaker 4: I'm the luckiest girl in the world, and I just

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Speaker 4: it's not even like her showing off or like, it's

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Speaker 4: a state of mind so that everything that goes a

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Speaker 4: bit annoyingly wrong, you're like, Okay, well that's fine, because

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Speaker 4: I'm the luckiest girl in the world and everything works

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Speaker 4: out for me. So I'm sure this is for a reason.

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Speaker 3: I learned that we have one of our best friends.

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Speaker 1: We were in Europe and she came out as a

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Speaker 1: lucky girl and she was.

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Speaker 3: And the crazy thing was that she kept us calling

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Speaker 3: herself lucky.

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Speaker 1: That we then also started noticing all the things that

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Speaker 1: she like that just worked it like we're like, fuck

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Speaker 1: lucky girl. Like we were like, oh my god, that

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Speaker 1: even when someone so enthusiastically embraced it individually, we then

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Speaker 1: also picked up on.

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Speaker 2: It and we reap the benefits of her lucky girl.

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Speaker 4: It's not accidental. It has to be something. It's like,

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Speaker 4: it just has to be where your head is.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's get into the episode.

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Speaker 4: We now life lessons out of the way.

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Speaker 2: So Grace, as we mentioned, you were aware of many hats.

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Speaker 2: You've launched businesses, you have an incredibly successful podcast, but

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Speaker 2: you studied music at Oxford, right, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Telly Prank, that's wild.

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Speaker 2: Did you always think that you were going to be

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Speaker 2: launching businesses? Is this where you thought that you would

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Speaker 2: end up?

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Speaker 4: No, I definitely didn't think. I didn't like see entrepreneurship

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Speaker 4: as a career path. It just wasn't something that like

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Speaker 4: I was around or was like seen as I don't know,

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Speaker 4: I didn't see it. And so I think that in

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Speaker 4: my mind, my career path was always like I never

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Speaker 4: knew what I wanted to do, Like I never and

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Speaker 4: I've always been so like envious of people who have

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Speaker 4: who are like, I want to do this, this is

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Speaker 4: the path to get there, Like this is what I'm

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Speaker 4: going to do because I think I would I would

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Speaker 4: lend well to that type of thing, because I'm like

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Speaker 4: good at following that type of structure. But I've just

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Speaker 4: never had that like direction, I guess since super early.

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Speaker 4: I just always so. I guess what I defaulted to

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Speaker 4: instead was very much what can I do that's the

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Speaker 4: most impressive. I think that was something that when I

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Speaker 4: was a teenager I definitely always tried to do. And

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Speaker 4: I don't think that was I think that was from insecurity.

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Speaker 4: Like I think that that was very much like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I saw the response that got from people, and it

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Speaker 4: was about impressing other people undred percent, and like the

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Speaker 4: response that got from my parents and like the respect,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, oh, okay, external validation one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: Oh my best friend. And so I think I still

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Speaker 4: like it, I think, But I so, I think that

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Speaker 4: was like always my thing. I don't actually so I

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Speaker 4: always say, like I used to be. I used to

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Speaker 4: want to be like a banker or a lawyer or

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Speaker 4: like basically anything that, yeah, anything that if you said

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Speaker 4: to someone they'd be like, wow, impressive. And none of

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Speaker 4: that was based on my can innate desire to do

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Speaker 4: any of those things. I think it was more based

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Speaker 4: on an innate desire to like prove myself. And I

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Speaker 4: think that that's something that's been always part of me.

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Speaker 4: As a person, and I now try and like fight

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Speaker 4: that pretty regularly because I'm like, you don't need to

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Speaker 4: be doing that all the time, Like that's not how

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Speaker 4: you build a life that you love. So I was

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Speaker 4: always kind of like going towards that direction. And in

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Speaker 4: the UK it's a little bit different, I think from

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Speaker 4: a lot of other places in that can you don't

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Speaker 4: need to study something related to the thing that you

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Speaker 4: go into, So a lot of like banking or legal

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Speaker 4: or any of these kind of careers, they don't necessarily

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Speaker 4: hire from vocational degrees. They often hire from like humanities

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Speaker 4: or whatever. There's definitely I think what i'd seen or

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Speaker 4: what I'd been advised as a teenager is like go

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Speaker 4: to the best university you can for something you care about,

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Speaker 4: and you'll be able to get a good job. And

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Speaker 4: so I yeah, and I was really so the music

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Speaker 4: I studied, I think that it's a bit strange because

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Speaker 4: I think that you would assume if you were studying

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Speaker 4: music you'd be doing like performance and all of that.

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Speaker 4: The specific degree I did was very specific to the

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Speaker 4: university and it was like all like the politics and

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Speaker 4: philosophy of music. So a lot of the papers I

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Speaker 4: did were all around like historical associations with music, so

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Speaker 4: like political movements and the associated music, or like censorship

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Speaker 4: around particular political movements and like what that meant in

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Speaker 4: music and like various other things.

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Speaker 3: Fine, do you know what that makes sense?

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Speaker 1: Though, because when you kind of think about like movies

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Speaker 1: that are either in America or in the UK, everyone

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Speaker 1: always says I studied at Oxford, or I studied at Harvard,

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Speaker 1: or I studied blah blah blah blah, and they say

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Speaker 1: the university, whereas here you go, oh, I studied a

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Speaker 1: Bachelor of Arts Marketing or like.

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Speaker 4: I think that's what happens when it's around like like

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Speaker 4: Ivy League and Oxbridge, because it's like that's the important

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Speaker 4: if that makes sense. Like I feel like people say

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Speaker 4: to me far more like, oh, you went to Oxford

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Speaker 4: than like, oh, you studied music. I think the music,

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Speaker 4: but it's a bit of like just trying to make

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Speaker 4: my trivia card harder. But it's like that was what

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Speaker 4: I was just told to do. I was told to

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Speaker 4: get into the best university you can for something that

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Speaker 4: you are interested in, and you'd happily study for three years.

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Speaker 4: And I was always really really interested around that like

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Speaker 4: the influence or the existence of music in certain like

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Speaker 4: political eras that reflected like Soviet Russia for example, like

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Speaker 4: what the music was like there in reflection of the

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Speaker 4: actual political landscape, and then like music as rebellion and

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Speaker 4: like all of those different things. So I was very

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Speaker 4: interested in that. So the actual whole degree I did,

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was all essay based, So I didn't

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Speaker 4: do I didn't do a single bit of performance as

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Speaker 4: any of my So it's kind of like it was

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Speaker 4: a very specific humanity I guess.

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Speaker 2: But that's still ladders art because it's still a creative space.

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Speaker 2: And also I'm sure you built so many skills around

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Speaker 2: critical thinking and research, which would come in and with

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Speaker 2: the research you do for your businesses.

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Speaker 4: But also your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean, like you can say the mind

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Speaker 2: map of how like even if what you did at

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Speaker 2: UNI doesn't exactly later up to what you do now

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Speaker 2: in a way that is super obvious.

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Speaker 4: There's links there. Oh yeah, it's like tens of thousands

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Speaker 4: of pounds worth of dinner party conversation. Yeah, like a

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Speaker 4: niche knowledge around political arism music. But like that's that's fine.

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Speaker 4: You know, got to make myself interesting somehow, but I

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Speaker 4: do very much. I don't know. I think that like

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Speaker 4: the main things I learnt out of that degree were

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Speaker 4: nothing to do with as much as I learned all

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Speaker 4: of what was in the degree, and like the independent

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Speaker 4: study and all of that, it was more the I mean,

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Speaker 4: I started my first business in my first year at UNI,

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Speaker 4: so the entire time was like this massive juggling act.

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Speaker 4: And I also at Oxford they don't let you have

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Speaker 4: a job. So there's this like, really, in my opinion,

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Speaker 4: outdated rule because I think that it only suits certain

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Speaker 4: people from certain demographics, which says that you cannot have

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Speaker 4: a job during term time. And the reasoning is is

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Speaker 4: because the terms are so short, so like semesters, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, what do you call them term semesters? Yeah, semesters. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: So the semesters are so short, they're like eight weeks,

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Speaker 4: so you actually have more time out of university than

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Speaker 4: you have in. So they're like, you can do whatever

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Speaker 4: you would want to do outside of that time, but

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Speaker 4: you have ten thousand words a week, so it's like

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Speaker 4: a very intense workload, and so they don't believe that

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Speaker 4: you could uphold even a part time job, whilst also

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Speaker 4: studying and so, which is a different setup from the

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Speaker 4: US system, for example, which they expect most people to

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Speaker 4: need some sort of job or whatever it might be,

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Speaker 4: or at least some people to and therefore it would

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Speaker 4: be understandable there is actually a rule at Oxford that

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Speaker 4: you are not allowed a job. So that was an

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Speaker 4: added layer on top of everything I was doing, which

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Speaker 4: was like, don't let anyone know that you are doing it.

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Speaker 4: Like well, it was like, you have to do this

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Speaker 4: to a level that no whatever suspects or kind of

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Speaker 4: could use against you the fact that you are.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I want to kind of go back

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Speaker 1: to something that you were saying before though about how

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Speaker 1: you were kind of motivated to do things that you

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Speaker 1: would feel impressed to other people and that external validation,

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Speaker 1: which like, yeah, we love a little bit of GSD, right,

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Speaker 1: But what was the journey like moving away from that

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Speaker 1: and moving away from like the need to impress other

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Speaker 1: people because I think that that is such an inherent

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Speaker 1: thing that's ingrained, especially in women, and also like the

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Speaker 1: highlight reel of social media to be impressive, to be

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Speaker 1: like different and smart and all these things. That how

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Speaker 1: did you go on that journey of moving away from

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Speaker 1: needing external validation.

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Speaker 4: So I'm definitely not that yet. Journey. I love a

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Speaker 4: bit of exciting word.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like everyone does.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think my life is now less based

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Speaker 4: on it. But I think that I would be lying

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Speaker 4: if I said that that was due to mental strength

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Speaker 4: rather than to the position I've got to in my career.

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Speaker 4: Like I think that it's probably quite easy for me

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Speaker 4: to say, like, oh, I've moved away from more external validation,

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Speaker 4: when actually I've got to a place where I think

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Speaker 4: I get probably enough external validation naturally every day based

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Speaker 4: on the perception of me from people seeing my job,

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Speaker 4: if that makes sense, rather than oh, I don't need

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Speaker 4: it exactly. So I mean it's been conscious, like I've

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Speaker 4: really tried to move away from that as a like

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Speaker 4: decision making protocol because I don't think it's the right

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Speaker 4: way to make decisions for your own life. But at

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Speaker 4: the same time, it's not like a oh that's turned

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Speaker 4: off now, like I just do things for myself and

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Speaker 4: for my own interest, because that is a big fat

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Speaker 4: lad Yeah was it?

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Speaker 1: More that's about pulling away for it and more than

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Speaker 1: more about leaning into it, and more about leaning into

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Speaker 1: what serves my validation and then naturally that follows.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think like switching to internal validation is

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Speaker 4: important part of it, Like what can you get out

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Speaker 4: of doing the right thing for yourself that makes you

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Speaker 4: feel good rather than doing the right thing because other

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Speaker 4: people perceive it to be that way. I think it's

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Speaker 4: also like when you're at the beginning of a journey

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Speaker 4: of like knowing that you particularly go for external validation,

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Speaker 4: it's really hard to separate those things because usually what

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Speaker 4: makes you feel good internally is the things that make

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Speaker 4: you feel impressive externally or whatever it might be. So

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I think over time I definitely just

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Speaker 4: tried to. It's not necessarily about not going for it.

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Speaker 4: I think it's more about knowing that I it should

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Speaker 4: be the way I make decisions, So something can be

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Speaker 4: impressive and something I still decide to do as long

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Speaker 4: as it aligns with like all of these other things

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Speaker 4: that I want my life to be. But doing things

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Speaker 4: purely based on the fact that I think that they're

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Speaker 4: impressive and I'm going to be taken more so is

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Speaker 4: just like a means to serve, like the chip on

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Speaker 4: my shoulder, which is not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like is this decision coming because it feels good

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Speaker 1: for me. Yes, And you would have to make a

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Speaker 1: million difficult decisions, I would say, every single day running

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Speaker 1: you know, multiple companies and like the beast that like

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Speaker 1: Tala is now when you look back on your journey,

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Speaker 1: is there anything that springs to mind that you think, Hm,

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Speaker 1: I'd do that differently.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, just so much. Oh tell me why.

404
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Speaker 4: I feel like it's a hard question because every decision

405
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Speaker 4: leads you to where you are now, even like you

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Speaker 4: we're talking about the lucky girl syndrome. So like, for example,

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Speaker 4: when I launched Tala, I launched it as part of

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Speaker 4: a licensing agreement, and I did that because I didn't

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Speaker 4: want to because I'd already had Shreddy for two years

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Speaker 4: and that had hundreds of thousands of customers. So I

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Speaker 4: knew that there was going to be interested in this

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Speaker 4: thing because I had eyes on me based on my

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Speaker 4: other business and based on people being interested, the Shready

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Speaker 4: customer was going to hopefully buy Tala like they were

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Speaker 4: the same demographic. So I knew that to launch at

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Speaker 4: the level we would need to launch at Aka for

417
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Speaker 4: our first launch ever to be able to serve the demand.

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Speaker 4: Probably the first order was going to be like five

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Speaker 4: hundred thousand pounds, and I was like, that's too much

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Speaker 4: risk for me to take on personally, even though I

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Speaker 4: didn't want to give away equity in the company. So

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Speaker 4: I used the sales that i'd done from Shreddy, and

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Speaker 4: I went to pitch to people about essentially doing like

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Speaker 4: a licensing agreement or a revenue split essentially, so like

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Speaker 4: you could fit the bill and I could, and you

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Speaker 4: get paid back for it essentially and with interest, but

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Speaker 4: I don't. It's not like a formalized loan agreement, and

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Speaker 4: it's not a it's not a kind of you don't

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Speaker 4: get equity in the company. So I did that, and

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Speaker 4: then I decided to I ran the company like that

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Speaker 4: for the first year and a half, and then I

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Speaker 4: realized that just wasn't going to work for the business.

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Speaker 4: It was like it was too complex, it was hard

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Speaker 4: to hire people. The people I was working with just

435
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Speaker 4: didn't have the same vision for the business as me.

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Speaker 4: They were really happy to make it like a kind

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Speaker 4: of merch company and just make it like serving a

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Speaker 4: certain thing and like, I don't know, compromising certain ethics

439
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Speaker 4: and like all of that, and I just wasn't up

440
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 4: for that, so I had to go through an extremely painful,

441
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 4: like over six months legal process to get out of that,

442
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 4: and that like nearly killed the business. So at the time,

443
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 4: obviously I would have been like, fucking wish I never

444
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 4: did am I as, yeah, thank you, I.

445
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 3: Feel like, yeah, it's your day.

446
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 4: So I think that, like, obviously at that time I

447
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 4: would have been like a fucking wish I did that differently.

448
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 4: But at the same time, everything done there, and there's

449
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 4: pace at which we were able to launch. Who's to

450
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 4: say that we would have launched well, Like, who's to

451
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 4: say that we would have had that first year and

452
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 4: a half working well enough to get to where we

453
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 4: did the next year and a half. And so I

454
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 4: think that it's I'm not trying for it to be

455
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 4: a cop out answer, but it's kind of a really

456
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 4: good way to look at it. It's how you have

457
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 4: to look at things because also, like, there are so

458
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 4: many things that don't work out. There are so many

459
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 4: like categories that we've tried that I thought would be

460
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,479
Speaker 4: amazing and that we invested loads of money in and

461
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 4: like they sold, but they didn't sell how they should

462
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 4: and therefore you don't go into them, and you've already

463
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 4: spent so much time developing them. So it's just like,

464
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 4: I feel like having a business is that over and

465
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 4: over and over. Looking at it.

466
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: That way though, really helps what I would think helps

467
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: with decision paralysis, because that is something that like I

468
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: personally struggle with, being like, fuck, what if I make

469
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: the wrong decision, and so then I end up sitting

470
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: in paralysis where I don't end up making a decision,

471
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: when in reality, the.

472
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 3: Best decision you make is the one that you end

473
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 3: up making.

474
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 4: So one of the best decision making frameworks I've heard

475
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 4: about that that I use is now you have no choice,

476
00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 4: I ate this. So is a decision a one way

477
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 4: door decision or a two way door decision. A one

478
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,479
Speaker 4: way door decision is a decision you make once and

479
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 4: you cannot go back, or it's going to cost you

480
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: thousands or one hundreds thousands or whatever like whatever is

481
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 4: too much resistance to go back. A two way door

482
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 4: decision is something that you can make a decision if

483
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,479
Speaker 4: it doesn't work, it doesn't need to stay open, like

484
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 4: you can go back through that door. The large majority

485
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 4: of decisions are actually two way door decisions. They feel

486
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 4: like one way door decisions because you're like, ah shit,

487
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 4: this is such a big life change or like whatever

488
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 4: it might be, most of them are genuinely two way

489
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 4: door decisions. So I've learned that, as you say, the

490
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 4: best decision is the one that you can make quickly

491
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 4: and can make right. So you know the whole saying, like,

492
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 4: make a decision and then make that decision right, like

493
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 4: you don't just wait to see if it was right decision.

494
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 4: You do the work, You do the follow through, like

495
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 4: all of the things that actually is going to make

496
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: that work. And so that's like, that's really what I

497
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 4: go by because in a business, you obviously have to

498
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 4: make like an insane amount of decisions today and they

499
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 4: all technically need to be the right ones. Realistically they're

500
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 4: probably not even close to the right ones, but a

501
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 4: we do the work to at least follow through enough

502
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 4: to make them feel like the right one, or you go, great,

503
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 4: we tried that, it didn't work. We've done one more

504
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 4: thing now that we know is a yes or a

505
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 4: note for the business. That's still progress, Like it might

506
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 4: not be progress in the way that you thought it

507
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 4: was going to be, but that is still progress. And

508
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 4: so I think that is, like, that's something that I've

509
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 4: had to integrate into my every day is like you

510
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 4: make a decision fast, and you understand what's one way

511
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 4: door or two way door. Like a one way door

512
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 4: decision probably, for example, from my example, would be getting

513
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 4: investment from a fund that is completely unaligned to who

514
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 4: we are, Like that is hella paperwork that is going

515
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 4: to be extremely hard to extricate yourself from. That is

516
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 4: going to be just could sink the business and could

517
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 4: take away your entire joy from the business. So that

518
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 4: is a decision that should take months, Like it should

519
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 4: take month.

520
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: Okay, So the one way door decisions are the ones

521
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: that we don't make these quickly. No, you sit on.

522
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 4: That and they should have two way door decisions. You

523
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 4: spend too much time on you're going to make it

524
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: the wrong yea.

525
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: So treating all decisions like a one way door is

526
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: where you end up in decision paralysis exactly. And then

527
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: treating all decisions like a two way door is where

528
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: you end up sucking up because then if ones are

529
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: one one Yeah, but I think the generally the lesson

530
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: actually is that like that's correct with the one way door,

531
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: but realistically.

532
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 4: Most decisions are with two way doors. We just think

533
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 4: they're one way doors. Like it's so easy to think

534
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 4: about like everything in your life is a massive decision. Realistically,

535
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: that's just like that's categorically not the case.

536
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: I like that analysis or like that way of looking

537
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 2: at it, though, because you could apply that in business or.

538
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 3: In day to day decision making as well.

539
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: And you wear so many hats, like every single day,

540
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 2: you'd have so many different things that you have going on.

541
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: Can you take us through, what is a day in

542
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 2: your life like? And what are the small habits that

543
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 2: you put into place to kick off those goals?

544
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 4: Okay, so a day in my life. I'm going to

545
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 4: give you a real answer soon, I promise you. It's

546
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 4: hard to say because it goes back and forth and

547
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 4: they're like many different types of days. Yeah, I'll give

548
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 4: you like maybe an overview of what a week would

549
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 4: look like, because I think that's actually like a better

550
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 4: reflection of what overall yes like. Because also the businesses

551
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 4: I run are different types of businesses, so some of

552
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: them require different levels of input from me week to week.

553
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 4: Then they all have crunch times like all of that,

554
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: so I just try and balance it out in a

555
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 4: way where they're not going to have crunch times at

556
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 4: the same time, and I can still get back to

557
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 4: everyone because it might be that like Shreddy's having a

558
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 4: huge launch and it's like a massive thing, and like

559
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 4: people at Tala's still the answers from me that week,

560
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 4: if that makes sense. So the way my week works

561
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: is it's not split like by company. It's more split

562
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 4: by type of work. Because I think one of the

563
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 4: mistakes people get into is like switching between types of

564
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 4: work really hard. So for example, I obviously have a podcast.

565
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: I don't record that every week, and I don't switch

566
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 4: between that because I find it really really hard, like

567
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 4: to do a podcast in an engaging way. I have

568
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 4: to be a normal human being to do my work

569
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: at my laptop for however many hours I need to

570
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 4: do it that day. I need to be like an

571
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 4: abnormal and probably quite like you know, like very lot

572
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 4: to the point like locked in person, which just doesn't

573
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 4: lend itself to like the funnest chats. So like Monday's

574
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: my work from home day. I tend to keep it

575
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 4: that way. I really like having the week book ended

576
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 4: if I can with work from home, mainly because so

577
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 4: much comes in throughout the week that I want to

578
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 4: make sure I'm not bottlenecking any of the companies. I

579
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 4: think that's one thing that's really come up for me

580
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 4: over the past few years is like, am I still

581
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 4: reviewing something or approving something because it is me doing

582
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 4: my due diligence for the company, or is this bottlenecking

583
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 4: and therefore delaying everything. So that means that with Mondays

584
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 4: and four I can get through like a hell of

585
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 4: a lot of work because I am like a speed

586
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 4: demon when it comes to me on my laptop. And

587
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 4: so I do that, and I have all my standing calls.

588
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 4: So I have a call with my chiefert staff. I

589
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 4: have a call with Tala CEO. I have a call

590
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 4: with the commercial director at Shreddy. I basically have all

591
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 4: like my what do we absolutely have to do, Like

592
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 4: how are we making sure we're on the same page.

593
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: They've had their call with their founders so they understand

594
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 4: like what top priorities are or whatever it might be,

595
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 4: or they're reporting certain things to me, and so we've

596
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 4: got like a good state of play by the beginning

597
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 4: of the week. Then Tuesday is my like intense meeting day.

598
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 4: So I try and get as many meetings as possible,

599
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 4: Like I would rather have Tuesday filled to the break

600
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 4: than have meetings dotted the rest of the week, because

601
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 4: again I'm not good at work switching, Like I'll do it,

602
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 4: but the I'm so productive when you can give me

603
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 4: like a deep work block. So from the beginning of

604
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 4: Tuesday to the very end of Tuesday, I will be

605
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 4: in like locked in in various different meetings. So that

606
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: could be product meetings, that tala, that could be marketing meetings,

607
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 4: that could be brand influencer that could be I don't know.

608
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 4: It could be not a personal meeting but like a

609
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: personal brand type associated meeting. It could be all of

610
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 4: these different things. So I try and do those like

611
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 4: maximum possible. Then on Wednesday, Wednesday morning, that's when I

612
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 4: get any content done. So if I needed to do

613
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 4: a brand deal, if I needed if I wanted to

614
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 4: do some TikTok's about some certain all of that, like

615
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 4: I block out that time. So like you'll notice a

616
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 4: pattern which is like everything is like blocked in a

617
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 4: very like routine way. But I also think what works

618
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 4: so well is like you've got to remember that four

619
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 4: companies are vying for this time and I don't mean

620
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 4: that in a kind of life. I'm still popular way,

621
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 4: but like, if you need something from me, you need

622
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 4: to know, Okay, Well, if it's a meeting, it's probably

623
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,239
Speaker 4: gonna happen on Grace's Tuesday. If it's some content, it's

624
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 4: probably gonna happen on Wednesday. So in that case, we

625
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 4: can request certain things by this date or whatever it

626
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: might be, and that means everything keeps on flowing. There's

627
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 4: no like, oh, well, Grace might be shopping in Paris

628
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 4: that day, which was but like do you get what

629
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 4: I mean?

630
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: So it's to be rigid and the hack is time blocking, Yeah,

631
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,959
Speaker 2: and also knowing your skills. So for example, for us,

632
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: I think a whole day of meetings, we'd be like,

633
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: we can't do that because we know that by two

634
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: o'clock the final three meetings are going to be points exactly,

635
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: Whereas like for us, we're like, we know that on

636
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: Fridays we're in a good mood in the morning, we're fresh,

637
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: so that's when we record the podcast. It's like understanding

638
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: your strengths and weaknesses and allowing time in the schedule

639
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: to support those strengths and weaknesses.

640
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think That's exactly it. It's like knowing yourself

641
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 4: is the best productivity hack you could ever have. Like

642
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 4: everyone can say, oh, do this, do deep work, do

643
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 4: time blocking, do the like whatever method like all of this,

644
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: the best thing you could ever do for your productivity

645
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 4: is knowing yourself. So if you know that you crash

646
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 4: after a certain time, if you know that you need

647
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: a bit of a warm up, which lots of people

648
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 4: think they do, most people actually don't. They just they

649
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 4: don't want to do their hard thing first thing in

650
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 4: the morning. If you know that you once you've had meetings,

651
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 4: you're not very good at deep work. Like all of

652
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: these different things, you have to know yourself, and once

653
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 4: you know yourself, that is how you can actually plan

654
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 4: your life. Like all of that is based on me.

655
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 4: So like Wednesday morning filming, for example, if I've had

656
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 4: meetings in the morning, I'm not gonna film, yeah, because

657
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: I will be in a completely I've just been in

658
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: a completely different mood, Like I'll be in a problem

659
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 4: solving mood. I'll be in a like I want to

660
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 4: like bash us out with this team so that we

661
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 4: know what the strategy is or whatever. So you want

662
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 4: me to go on like a cute little chatty TikTok.

663
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 4: Absolutely fuck not, Like no one will enjoy that TikTok

664
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 4: because I'll literally like so like, I know that has

665
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 4: to be first saying yeah, but I'm not. I don't know.

666
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 4: I've got many different modes and I'm fortunate enough to

667
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 4: be in the position where i can design my week

668
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 4: around those. And of course there are certain things that

669
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 4: come in and soay. For example, like every product meeting

670
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 4: you have, not like a one to one product meeting,

671
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 4: like a product department of meeting. Those are like three

672
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 4: and a half hours, So that's going to be a

673
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 4: whole morning or a whole afternoon. So I'm not going

674
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: to use my Tuesday meeting slots for that. That's probably

675
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 4: going to be a Wednesday or probably going to be

676
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 4: a Thursday, and that's probably going to throw off some

677
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 4: of the rest of the schedule. Like You've got to

678
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 4: stay flexible, particularly when I'm working at all these different companies,

679
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: like I cannot make things slow down for them.

680
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: Exactly how do you manage And not to say that

681
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: this is something you've experienced, but if it is like

682
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: the imposta syndrome of it, because eighty two percent of

683
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: gen ZED workers feel like they experience imposta syndrome, and

684
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm very curious to know if you've had that experience

685
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: or what your advice would be regardless, because you are

686
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: so not to use word, but impressive.

687
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 4: Like you there's my little chair.

688
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah you can go a bit, but like.

689
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: You just fucking are so smart and like listening to you,

690
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: you just know what you're talking about. I'm one hundred

691
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: percent sure you've put in all of the work to

692
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: get to that point. But it's like how, I like,

693
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: how did you get past impaster syndrome if you've ever

694
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: had it? Or like, what's your advice to anyone that

695
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: does feel like they have it?

696
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 4: Yeah? So I mean, first of all, thank you, that

697
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: was very nice.

698
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: Anytime I'm still.

699
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm flirting, okay f hr, there's no h.

700
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 4: Okay, you're on your own. So I think that the

701
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 4: first thing to say is I've absolutely had imposter syndrome.

702
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 4: I think also worth saying that. As much as I

703
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 4: am technically gen Z, I also started my first business

704
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 4: ten years ago, so there's like, I know, like lots

705
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 4: of people start to work at that stage as well,

706
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 4: but I think that like over ten years you do. Definitely.

707
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 4: I think building self trust and building self confidence is

708
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 4: a big way of defeating imposter syndrome because you know

709
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 4: that it might be like an anxiety in your head,

710
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 4: it might be something that you think you have, but realistically,

711
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 4: if someone came up to you and were like, you

712
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 4: shouldn't be here, you'd be like, yeah, I fucking shouldn't.

713
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 4: This is why. So I think like that's an important part.

714
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: I think that whenever I speak to people who work

715
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 4: in a more corporate setting, for example, about imposter syndrome,

716
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 4: the first thing I always say is that imposter syndrome

717
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: is likely a reflection of your environment. So if you

718
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 4: don't see many women in your position, if you don't

719
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 4: see many black women in your position, if you don't

720
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 4: see someone who looks like you or reflects you, or

721
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 4: is from your background, you're going to feel imposter syndrome

722
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 4: not because of who you are, but because of how

723
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 4: the workplace is set up and hasn't necessarily come that

724
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 4: far in terms of diversity or in terms of like

725
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 4: diversity of background, or like any of these things. So

726
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 4: that means imposter syndrome is then problem, not a you problem,

727
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 4: and it's a it's I guess useful to some extent,

728
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 4: like you know it's there, but it's only information. It's

729
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 4: not an instruction. It's not like, okay, well now you

730
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 4: need to feel like this. It's just what the workplaces

731
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 4: look like and where it looks now, and you can

732
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 4: use that as some information that reflects them, not you.

733
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 4: So I think that's quite important. I also think that

734
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 4: imposter syndrome is a really good thermostat for telling you

735
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 4: whether you're outside your comfort zone or not, because if

736
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 4: you don't have imposter syndrome in your job for more

737
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 4: than a year, in my opinion, you're probably not progressing

738
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 4: at the rate you want to progress unless you actually

739
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 4: don't want to progress. There are many people who don't

740
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 4: want to progress, and that is more than fine. Like

741
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 4: I will always be the biggest proponent for there are

742
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 4: different types of work for different people, and you don't

743
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 4: need to want to be a fucking CEO, like I

744
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 4: don't think that, even though social media makes that look

745
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: so glamorous, Like I don't think that's suited for everyone.

746
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 4: Not everyone even needs to manage people like all of that,

747
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 4: But I think that as part of that, what you

748
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 4: can really work out is like, Okay, I've not had

749
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: imposter syndrome for a year or two, Am I pushing

750
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 4: myself out there? Like? Am I doing enough things that

751
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: put me out of my comfort zone or that put

752
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 4: me in a place where I think, shit, I need

753
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 4: to do extra work for this. I need to maybe

754
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 4: even read some books like to understand how to manage

755
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 4: this conversation or relationship properly. Or I need to watch

756
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 4: some YouTube videos and some ted talks and like all

757
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 4: of that to actually learn an upskill. I think that

758
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 4: actually the bigger problem is if you're not feeling it regularly.

759
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: That just gave me butterflies.

760
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: That literally gave me batter flies because I was like,

761
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: what a fucking amazing way.

762
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 4: To look at it. But that's the thing. It's like

763
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 4: so many like imposter syndrome is delivered to women as

764
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 4: a almost like uh, you must have this, and you

765
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,439
Speaker 4: must feel bad about it or you must fight it.

766
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 4: And in reality, if I'm feeling that because I'm pushing

767
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 4: outside of my comfort zone, like why are we looking

768
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 4: at that as a negative thing? Like great, you're in

769
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 4: the right place, perfect.

770
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you shall stay here, yes.

771
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: Ch.

772
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you can't find your passport to get high.

773
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 3: Don't worry about it. I ate it.

774
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

775
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I guess, if you're not feeling imposter syndrome,

776
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: maybe it's because you're fulfilled in what you're doing.

777
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it could be that. Like so for example, that's

778
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 4: a really good point because for example, I mean, I

779
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 4: probably feel imposter syndrome still a few times a year,

780
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 4: which is my indicator to myself that I'm not like coasting,

781
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 4: and I'm happy with that. But at the same time,

782
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 4: I don't feel it every day, and maybe I've reached

783
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 4: a stage in my career where I don't need to

784
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 4: feel it every day. I do think that it's often

785
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 4: asked to women in their twenties and early thirties in

786
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 4: the early stages of their career, were actually, if you're

787
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 4: pushing yourself.

788
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: Great, Yeah, you've completely altered in my brain chemistry with

789
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: that one great job.

790
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 4: Gorgeous researcher.

791
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the chicks listening would have

792
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: had like a little light bulb moment then, because another

793
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: thing that a lot of young women get talk about

794
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: or experience is also the feeling of being a people pleaser.

795
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: And I know that this is something that you've said

796
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: that you have experienced or do still experience, especially because

797
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: unlike some CEOs and founders, like you are also the face,

798
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 2: the outward public face of.

799
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 4: Your businesses and of the projects that you work on.

800
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: What has your experience been like with that.

801
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's one of the main reasons why

802
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 4: I've actually tried as much as possible not to make

803
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 4: the businesses like reliant on me. I mean, there are

804
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 4: many different reasons why I've done that. Obviously, Like we've

805
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: got investment at some of them. Like you don't invest

806
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 4: in one individual person, like that's not the smartest investment,

807
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 4: Like you invest in consumer companies that do well statistically

808
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: based on a number of different things and a number

809
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: of different metrics, and like I worked a lot of

810
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 4: time on making sure that all the like if you

811
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 4: look at the company's feeds now, for example, you'd probably

812
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 4: take a good few scrolls and see me once, yeah,

813
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 4: maybe twice. Like so I think that, and I think

814
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 4: that's been a conscious decision to make sure that I

815
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 4: am not held back by this people pleasing thing. Because

816
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 4: a company, it should please its customers, but it shouldn't

817
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 4: sway like the wind based on what one person says,

818
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 4: because if you've got hundreds of thousands or millions of customers,

819
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 4: you're not gonna please everyone with every drop. You're not

820
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 4: gonna make everyone feel happy about every decision, and you

821
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 4: still need to be able to make decisions without getting

822
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 4: that paralysis that you often get with like people bleasing

823
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 4: and wanting to do the right thing for you versus

824
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: other people. All of that. So I guess that's on

825
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 4: the business side. I think with me, I'm still a

826
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 4: people pleaser, and there's I think that what I'm trying

827
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 4: to do consciously all the time is make sure that

828
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 4: I'm not a people pleaser to the extent that it

829
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 4: that I'm living my life for other people. But at

830
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 4: the same time, I also like a lot of my

831
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 4: people pleasing traits, Like I like being a kind person.

832
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 4: I like being a person who thinks about the feelings

833
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 4: of others before I deliver something, or kind of making

834
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 4: sure that I don't deliver something at a certain time

835
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 4: so they don't feel a certain way. Like I understand

836
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 4: there is a difference between empathetic and caring person and

837
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 4: a people pleaser, but I often think that like we

838
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 4: we tell women in particular like these are the traits

839
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 4: you need to be a leader, and they're all these

840
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 4: quote unquote masculine traits. Actually, I want to be a

841
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 4: leader with all of these quote unquote feminine traits, Like

842
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 4: I want to be empathetic, I want to be understanding.

843
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 4: I want to think about whether that person's had a

844
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 4: bad day before I deliver some shit news or I

845
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 4: tell them their work wasn't good or whatever, Like I

846
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 4: care about those things. And I think that the way

847
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 4: it becomes an obstacle is when you you can't live

848
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: your own life because you're constantly living it for other people,

849
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 4: and you're constantly trying to impress other people or to

850
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 4: make them happier, whatever, and therefore you say yes to

851
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 4: things you don't want to say yes to and all

852
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 4: of that. So I've tried to get rid of all

853
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 4: of that. But on the other side, I'm like, I'm like,

854
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna I want to please people like sain,

855
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 4: I don't want to please everyone. I don't want to

856
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 4: I don't want to please someone who's never going to

857
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 4: fucking like me. But at the same time, I want

858
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 4: to please my friends. I want to please our customers,

859
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 4: I want to please the people who have followed me

860
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 4: for ages and have supported me and all of that,

861
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 4: Like that makes me happy. I don't need to just

862
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 4: turn into some like like robotic kind of well this

863
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 4: is my life, Like in my opinion, there's a bit

864
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 4: too much of that.

865
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we can lead with a little bit more

866
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: empathy and all yeah things. And we've said this, like

867
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: Sale and I have had these conversations because you know,

868
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: the more and more we are running our own business,

869
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: we have those moments where you know, we've said to

870
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: each other like, fuck, are we just not good at this?

871
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 4: Like are we just not good at.

872
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: The cutthroat way that people do business or you know

873
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: when they bring in lawyers or how they just don't

874
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: take things personally or whatever. And like I know I've

875
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: said to Sal and I go, but but we don't

876
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: have to run our business like that. We don't like

877
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: running business like that. And so when someone says to us,

878
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: like if something hurts our feelings with the way that

879
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: someone runs something, go over here and we're working with them,

880
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: and we go, well, that hurt our feelings. We don't

881
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: like that. And they go, well, that's just business. We go, well,

882
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: that's not our yes, no, how we've.

883
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 4: Said, and I think that that's a common misconception. I

884
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 4: also want to clarify as well, like running a business

885
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 4: and people pleasing don't need to be antithetical to each other.

886
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 4: I think that where some people get that wrong, and

887
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 4: where I've often got that wrong in the past, is

888
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 4: trying to make the right decision based on what will

889
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 4: make someone happy in the immediate future rather than the

890
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 4: long term future. So, for an example is if you

891
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 4: need to fire someone, if you look at it in

892
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 4: a people pleasing like book, you might be like, Okay,

893
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 4: well I need to not fire them because that will

894
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 4: not make them happy. Realistically, in the long run, someone

895
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: in the wrong company that you don't think is the

896
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 4: right fit, that isn't doing a good job and is

897
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 4: constantly getting negative feedback and just is not going to progress.

898
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 4: The kind option there is to be clear with them

899
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 4: so they can find the right place. It's important to

900
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 4: make sure, like I would always want to know if

901
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 4: there was something going on in their personal life that

902
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: meant that it shouldn't be delivered at that point, or

903
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 4: like whatever it might be. But realistically, where people pleasing

904
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 4: goes wrong is like the cutting off your nose in

905
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: spite of your face. It's like making the decisions that

906
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 4: will make someone happy in the immediate future and make

907
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: you feel better about yourself in the future, but in

908
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 4: the long run it's actually going to make them more unhappy.

909
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 4: The founder of Kultgeier came on my podcast a while ago,

910
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 4: and she one of the things that she said that's

911
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 4: really stuck with me is just that clarity is kindness.

912
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 4: And I think for a long time, the people pleasing

913
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 4: way I ran the business was trying to be as

914
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 4: nice as possible around feedback or just people's work in general,

915
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 4: or any of these things. And that's not actually that kind.

916
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 4: It might be nice, like, it might be polite and

917
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 4: it's been nicely delivered, but it's not actually that kind,

918
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 4: because the kind thing would be to say, what can

919
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 4: you do to make sure you still have this job?

920
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 4: What can you do to make sure that there is

921
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 4: a future for you here? What can you do to

922
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 4: make sure that you're progressing? Like I would much rather

923
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 4: have a boss that is clear with me and delivers

924
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 4: it in kindness, is clear rather than deceptively nice. If

925
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 4: you're that's actually not fair. If you're saying to me

926
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 4: over and over no your work's great, and I get

927
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 4: put on performance review and you're like, wait, what exactly?

928
00:44:58,840 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: Or they can't grow.

929
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 4: That's the difference. So it's like, clarity is kindness people

930
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 4: pleasing to make someone happy in the immediate future, which

931
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 4: is going to piss them off in the longer term future,

932
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 4: or upset them in the longer term future, or make

933
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 4: them confused in the longer term future. That's not people pleasing.

934
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 4: So the people pleasing we actually need to get rid of,

935
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 4: in my opinion, is the perceived people pleasing. That's actually

936
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 4: it doesn't please anyone.

937
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, oh my god, I'm learning so much, Like

938
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: this is good stuff.

939
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 3: Someone write this down.

940
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 2: I do want to ask you one more question though,

941
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 2: because one of the reasons that you are in Australia

942
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: at the moment is because you've launched Talla into the icon. Agy,

943
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: thank fuck, congratulations and so and thank you like we

944
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: are honestly.

945
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 4: So it's a charitable movie. Seriously, to be fair, I've

946
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 4: never seen the response in my dms like it. Like

947
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 4: we've launched in lots of different territories and I was literally.

948
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: Like, oh no, I don't think you understand a lot

949
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: we did, and We've spoken about Tala and given our

950
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: own like product wrecks and stuff on the show before,

951
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: but we want you to share for any Aussie cheeks

952
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: who haven't shopped it yet, what would be the one

953
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 2: product that they need to add.

954
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 4: To car is hard. I know you do tops and bottoms, okay, categories, Okay,

955
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 4: so tops, what we're known for, what we're known for

956
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 4: generally is like ol flattering, Like that's what we were

957
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 4: good at. And so that means that our tops, like

958
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 4: the really flattering ones, you will never have seen yourself

959
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 4: look that good. It's true.

960
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: I have like four in like like the.

961
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 4: Sorry, I'll let you finish on. I want to hear

962
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 4: you talk about your boobs and our.

963
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: Tops literally well as too, like members of the Big

964
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: TV committee who usually always have to wear a bra.

965
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 2: I think it was probably the first time I've been

966
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: able to wear a top without wearing a bra.

967
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 4: But that's that's I think what makes you understand that

968
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 4: it's a like women owned and run company. Yes, it's

969
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,479
Speaker 4: like you can tell that this was like any women

970
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 4: in the room being like no, I need the seam there,

971
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 4: and like half the people will have a big bust.

972
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 4: Half the people won't like all of that, So it's

973
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 4: like making sure there's a variety of products for both,

974
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 4: Like that's what's really important. I'd say the double layer

975
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 4: vest for a top is that is like, first of all,

976
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 4: it's really chic because it's like I feel like not

977
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 4: everyone's into super matching sets at the moment and their contrasts.

978
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 4: So you've got like the lower layers of different color

979
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 4: from the top layer, so it kind of looks like

980
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 4: you've thought about it, like you've thought about like a

981
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 4: bit of style layer. You've got your halter, you've got

982
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 4: your strappie, like all of that, and they're contrasted, which

983
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 4: I feel like theirs. So I'd say that double layer top.

984
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 4: Also it is called the boot job top for a reason.

985
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 4: The lift the girls.

986
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 3: Okay they're good, God, they're next, And.

987
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 4: Then I say it has to be it would have

988
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 4: to be. The day Flex flares. Those are like our

989
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,959
Speaker 4: corner stone. Like you've seen data that shows that people

990
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 4: who buy day flex flares first often come back twice

991
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 4: and buy two more day Flex flares before they even

992
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 4: move on to another product, because that's how good they are,

993
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 4: Like they're just so flattering, they're so comfy. They're really

994
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 4: good for every day where And I feel like Australia

995
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 4: might be more leggings than flares, Like.

996
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: I think we're flairs girlies, but I think.

997
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 4: I think they're more flattering on more people.

998
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just like I just think flares are fun

999
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 3: unless like they comfy.

1000
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what it is, but like when

1001
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: the grip of like a legging the whole way down,

1002
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,959
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like I feel like I can't.

1003
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 4: Sometimes I'm just like with the socks and like all

1004
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 4: of that, I just feel like I.

1005
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: Want to be My favorite is the sculpt had this

1006
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: conversation have you tried the Ultra Scult?

1007
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 3: What was the first one?

1008
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: That the first one was the Skulp Yeah, I've tried

1009
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: that super company as well as Yeah, and I've got

1010
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: the long Slave, the T shirt and the single Oh

1011
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: love was being black and brown, and I have the

1012
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: like kind of like light khaki green you know that one.

1013
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are my like high rotation love that and

1014
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: so good because now we can shop it so easily on.

1015
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 4: That well exactly. And they've chosen good stock. I always say,

1016
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 4: because wholesalers they choose their stock. It's not the other

1017
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 4: way around, so like yeah, every time, know that. And

1018
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 4: sometimes some brands don't let retailers buy certain ones because

1019
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 4: they might be like, that's our hero style, you have

1020
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 4: to come to the site for it. Some of them

1021
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 4: will have the opposite thing where they'll be like, that's

1022
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 4: our hero style, so we need every retailer to have it.

1023
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 4: We for example, like we don't mandate anything. We show

1024
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 4: what are like best selling collection is, which is like

1025
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 4: a lot of that like continuity, like always on. You

1026
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 4: can always buy that stuff from the website. It's not

1027
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 4: like changing with the seasons. We might have new colors,

1028
00:49:55,440 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 4: but it's like always there. But I always say because

1029
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 4: like since we've been on the Iconic, I've always been

1030
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 4: getting so many dms this week of being like they

1031
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 4: need to add this, like like can you put this

1032
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 4: on the Iconic And it's like sorry, Iconic girlies, because

1033
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 4: literally everyone I've been like, uh yeah, go to the Iconic.

1034
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 4: I'm like, literally like you need to beg them, yeah,

1035
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 4: not us like things. That's good feedback for them to

1036
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 4: have them.

1037
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure they want people buy exactly.

1038
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 4: That's the whole point in the relationship. And they were

1039
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 4: literally like obviously because we did the Bondai Beach Walk

1040
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 4: this week and literally, like I mean we it was

1041
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty people and those tickets went in

1042
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 4: two minutes and we were like what the fuck. And

1043
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 4: then they were just they were like we can I

1044
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 4: need to get talk a whole lot of interest.

1045
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you so much for joining us to say,

1046
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: I could literally listen to you all day, every day

1047
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: and I'm not.

1048
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 4: Good because I'm now your third course.

1049
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but literally, and job, I'm just so so

1050
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: glad we were able to have you on because you

1051
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: have so much wisdom and so much intelligence that you

1052
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: so willingly share to everyone. So for anyone who's not familiar,

1053
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 1: But where can they find you? I'm in a weird mood.

1054
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: I'm always in a mood.

1055
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 4: They can find me at Grace Beverley on kind of everything.

1056
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 4: I'm everywhere, but like, yeah, just at Grace Beverley. And

1057
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 4: then I've got like the company links in my bio as.

1058
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 2: Well the show notes as well.

1059
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 4: Little plug, thank you, thank.

1060
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: You so much, and congratulations on just everything, and we're

1061
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 2: so excited for this next chapter.

1062
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 3: Four you as well watching them from the wings.

1063
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: You're shopping after this serious.

1064
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 3: All right, well, thank you so much, chicks.

1065
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 4: We'll catch you on Tuesday.

1066
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for having us in your ear holes.

1067
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 4: We love to be here.

1068
00:51:49,680 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 3: Bye bye, bast