1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Sunday feature. My name 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: is Adam Lang. A little unusually, I'm in on the 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Sunday Interview today because this week we've got something entirely different. Now, 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: every day, when you're listening to Fear and Greed, you're 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: hearing the handiwork of our audio producer, Luke Now. He 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: is a genius when it comes to making Sean Aylmer, 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: Michael Thompson, me and every single one of our guests 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: sound the very best that they can. But what you 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: may not realize is that the theme music for Fear 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 1: and Greed is also Luke's. He wrote it, he composed it, 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: he recorded it. Because while he's an excellent audio engineer, 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: he's also an extremely talented musician in his own right, 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: and this week he's actually launched his latest single. Now, 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: I love talking about music, and I don't mind talking 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: about the music industry either. The business of music. I 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: spent a large chunk of my career working in that 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: space with songwriters, managing a record label, and working with artists. 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: It is a business that's constantly changing, and that is 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: why it's so exciting to see one of our own 20 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: team members making a name for himself. What Friends Do 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: is the new single from Luke Saint James. It's out now. 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: I'll share it with you shortly and where you can 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: find it on Spotify as well. Luke Saint James, Welcome 24 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: to Fear and Greed. 25 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me, and welcome to. 26 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: The other side of the microphone, Luke, Comfortable, isn't it? 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: That's not the word I would use. 28 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: Now, let's go back to where the genesis of this 29 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: whole idea and your passion for music came from. 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: How did you get into music? 31 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: Gosh, well, I suppose I wasn't that into music when 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: I was very young. I was probably around fourteen or 33 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: fifteen when I picked up a guitar for the first time. 34 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: That was really just because it was the cool thing 35 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: to do at the time. But you know, then I 36 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: started listening to the Beatles and led Zeppelin and Fleetwood Mac. 37 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 3: Yeah that'll do it. 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And then I realized I could sing a 39 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: little bit, and so, yeah, I guess I was a 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: bit of a late bloomer. But you know, probably within 41 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: six months of me first singing in front of people, 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: I was playing in front of my whole high school 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: and busking. So yeah, I guess my love for it 44 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: all developed very quickly. 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 3: All right, loke, now, confession time. 46 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: How many bands were you in before you decided to 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: go solo? 48 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 2: Not that many, to be honest. I was a I 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: was in a band called Virtuoso Fire okay, which is 50 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: a terrible, terrible name for a band, but we had 51 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: to shared love of you know, indie rock bands Arctic 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: Monkeys and Franz Ferdinand and very different music to what 53 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: I play now. But it was a lot of fun. 54 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun. 55 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 3: So that's how you cut your teeth. 56 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: And when did you decide that you can actually make 57 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,279 Speaker 1: a go of this, that you might become a professional. 58 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: It didn't happen straight away, to be honest. 59 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 3: You know. 60 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: I went off to UNI, I studied law for a 61 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: little bit, I got some other odd jobs, and it 62 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: wasn't until probably around twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen where 63 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: I really wanted to have a crack at it and 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: do it professionally in full time. And so that's what. 65 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: I did, you know. 66 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: I found a booking agent and started playing gigs and 67 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: pubs and weddings and corporate events. Wherever I could book 68 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: a gig. 69 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: Really, as many people as you can get in front 70 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: of it's a good thing. 71 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly. 72 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: So as you're creating music for you, what tends to 73 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: come first? Lyrics, music, an idea or a picture. How 74 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: does it work well for me? 75 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: It's everyone's different, But for me, I always start with 76 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: the melody first. I can't do it any other way. So, yeah, 77 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: I'll start playing around with a guitar or a piano 78 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: until I find something I enjoy. Once I have a 79 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: sort of basic structure or hook, then I will start 80 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: humming along and try and come up with some words 81 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 2: that might fit with it. And so to give what 82 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 2: friends do as an example, I had that first sort 83 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: of structure, that hook that comes in at the start 84 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: of the song, and then the first words that I 85 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: sort of came up with were I was feeling kind 86 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: of seasick okay, And then I mean, I guess the 87 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: basics of writing is what, when, where? Why? How? And 88 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: so it's figuring out okay, seasick, where am I? What 89 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: am I doing? What's this song about? And kind of 90 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: working backwards from there. 91 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: It was fantastic in terms of the creative spark and 92 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: hard work. You know, there's sometimes this illusion that are 93 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: just oh, it just comes to you and you either 94 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: have it or you don't. But to you, how much 95 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: of it is ideas from somewhere and how much of 96 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: it is work. 97 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: It's definitely a bit of both. I think sometimes songs 98 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: will just come to you, sometimes at the very worst 99 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: possible moment as well. You know, I've had songs that 100 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: have just popped into my head at two thirty in 101 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: the morning and I've had to go up and write 102 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: it all down before I forget it all. But yeah, 103 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: I think it's important to just put in the work, 104 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: you know, carving out time in your day to practice 105 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 2: or to write or just play around. You know, sometimes 106 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 2: the magic will happen for you and sometimes it won't. 107 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: But if you keep showing up, I think that's how 108 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: you give yourself the best chance. 109 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, So beyond the music, there is so much more 110 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: to turning this art form into a business. Recording as 111 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: part of it, this practice, songwriting, live performance. You've got promotion, 112 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: You've got recording, artwork, photography, videos, websites, blogs. 113 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 3: And social media. 114 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: Of course, all of that is in the hope of 115 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: generating an opportunity for your music to grow, to grow 116 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: an audience. How much of making music work is work? 117 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: And what do you find the hardest? 118 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. 119 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: It was certainly a shock to me at the beginning 120 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: just how much being a working musician is about, you know, 121 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: just running a business, getting yourself an AVN and booking 122 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: jobs and setting invoices and managing your taxes and just 123 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 2: all that admin side of things. It probably contrasts with 124 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: a lot of people's ideas of being a creative artist, 125 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: but that's definitely a large portion of what you do 126 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: on a day to day basis. I guess I think 127 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: the hardest thing for me was, you know, more in 128 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: the marketing and promotional side of things. It's not something 129 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: that I would say I'm naturally gifted that it's even 130 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: been an acquired skill and something that I still don't 131 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: feel very comfortable doing. But you have to get your 132 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: name out there. You have to do it, you know. 133 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: It's just it's hard to put your heart and soul 134 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: into this music and then use it as a promotional tool. 135 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: But that's the nature of the business, I suppose. 136 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, the industry has changed a lot so since you know, 137 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: you were listening to the Beatles and switching on to 138 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: music and Fleetwood Mac. You know, the business has changed 139 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: a lot, and it's constantly evolving. You know, for you, 140 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: what role does television, radio, music sites, Spotify, live gigs, 141 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: what role do they play in getting your music out there? 142 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, as you say, I mean, it's changed a lot. 143 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: When I first started busking, you could still reliably sell CDs, 144 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: and you know, if I had a CD right now, 145 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: I don't think I have anything in my house that 146 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: could even play it. So yeah, obviously the way we 147 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: consume music has completely changed, and it's been a good 148 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: thing and a bad thing, I guess. You know. On 149 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: the one hand, it's never been as easy as it 150 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: is now to share your music, and that's great. On 151 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: the other hand, the revenue stream from listening to that 152 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: music is essentially gone. Unless you're one of the bigger artists, 153 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 2: you can't expect to make any money off streams alone, 154 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: TV and movies. You know, if you can get your 155 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: songs on there, that's a good source of revenue. But 156 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 2: essentially making music for the vast majority of people is 157 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: now more of a promotional tool. You know, you're not 158 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: selling the song itself. You're selling you as an artist 159 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: and hopefully if people enjoy the song and other songs 160 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 2: you do, they will come and see you play and 161 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: that's how you get your name out there. 162 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: So Luke for the people listening today, including me, you 163 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: know what can we do to help? How can we 164 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: help you? To share What Friends Do? So go to Spotify, 165 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: listen to it and if you like it, absolutely hit 166 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: that little love button. 167 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, yes, look first and foremost. I hope people 168 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: enjoy the song because I loved making it. But yeah, 169 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: if they do, then it would be great if they 170 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: spread the word and shared it with others. You can 171 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 2: follow me on Instagram or I have a website where 172 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: I share when I'm playing gigs next and keep in touch. 173 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: Musical references are always dangerous, but when I first heard 174 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: What Friends Do, there were elements that reminded me of 175 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: Gattio somebody that I used to know, which is one 176 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: of for me, one of the most impressive Australian songs 177 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: of all time. And so when I heard your song 178 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: What Friends Do for the first time, it is so 179 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: musical and so beautiful, as well as some really insightful lyrics, 180 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: I loved it. And then I listened to it again. 181 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: I purposefully didn't listen to it a lot, because the 182 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: more you hear something, the more you can love it. 183 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: I've listened to it twice now, and the second time 184 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: I enjoyed better than the first. It's a really great song. 185 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 3: Work. Congratulations and good luck with the launch. 186 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Thank you, Adam, and I want to 187 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: say that that you and Sean and Michael have been 188 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: so supportive of me and my music and you've made 189 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: it a whole lot easier for me to get all 190 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: of this done. And a big shout out as well 191 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: to Ev Jones who helped produce the song. He's a 192 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: phenomenal producer and he got this song sounding, in my opinion, 193 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 2: really really really good, So thank you to him as well. 194 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: Luke, thank you for talking to Fear and Great and 195 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: all the best for the release of What Friends Do. 196 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: Thank you. 197 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: That was Luke Saint James, part of the Fear and 198 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: Greed team and the singer songwriter behind the great song 199 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: What Friends Do. Find the song on Spotify and search 200 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: for Luke Saint James on Instagram and TikTok, and we'll 201 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: also put a link in today's show. Notes have a 202 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: great Sunday