1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:12,401 Speaker 1: Apoche production on a sunny Saturday at the football in 2 00:00:12,441 --> 00:00:15,001 Speaker 1: Adelaide in nineteen seventy three, and the. 3 00:00:15,001 --> 00:00:17,081 Speaker 2: Rover will put it forward from Santa Wing towards Santa 4 00:00:17,121 --> 00:00:19,001 Speaker 2: hart Ford, houbbing in the front spot, couldn't. 5 00:00:18,681 --> 00:00:19,081 Speaker 3: Pull it down. 6 00:00:19,161 --> 00:00:23,001 Speaker 1: Knocked on intelligently by Sorrel format. Eleven year old Joanne 7 00:00:23,081 --> 00:00:25,961 Speaker 1: Ratcliffe took her four year old friend Kirsty Gordon to 8 00:00:26,041 --> 00:00:37,761 Speaker 1: the toilet. They were never seen again. Fifty three years later, 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: joeanne sister Susie is still searching well. 10 00:00:41,441 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 3: Of all the baffling crimes that have been committed in 11 00:00:43,521 --> 00:00:46,601 Speaker 3: this city, few are more heartbreaking than the disappearance of 12 00:00:46,721 --> 00:00:50,361 Speaker 3: Kirsty Gordon and Johann Ratcliffe. But not having a body 13 00:00:50,441 --> 00:00:54,801 Speaker 3: to bury and to actually grieve for her. 14 00:00:54,921 --> 00:01:02,681 Speaker 1: Probably there are theories that. 15 00:01:02,721 --> 00:01:05,081 Speaker 2: Were seen in the company of a man wearing a 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,201 Speaker 2: check coat and a brimmed hat leading them from the ground, 17 00:01:09,881 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: never to be seen again. 18 00:01:11,521 --> 00:01:12,481 Speaker 4: It was a crime that. 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: One would think was a part of a child abuse 20 00:01:19,401 --> 00:01:22,001 Speaker 2: type of thing, you know, So, do you think there 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,961 Speaker 2: could be a link between what pedophelia and. 22 00:01:23,881 --> 00:01:27,961 Speaker 1: The absolutely absolutely no doubt about the suspects. 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,121 Speaker 5: He should probably be in a mental institution to tell 24 00:01:31,161 --> 00:01:33,081 Speaker 5: you the truth rather than imprisons. 25 00:01:33,761 --> 00:01:37,521 Speaker 3: The gentleman that was dressed in women's clothing was sort 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:43,361 Speaker 3: of loitering around whether the ladies toilets were rumors. 27 00:01:43,041 --> 00:01:45,321 Speaker 6: It's childhood and how do you access that while your 28 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,001 Speaker 6: in prisons and he was put on that property by government. 29 00:01:49,561 --> 00:01:52,201 Speaker 6: He was sent out to there to get him away 30 00:01:52,201 --> 00:01:55,721 Speaker 6: from Adelaide because he was molesting too many children and 31 00:01:55,841 --> 00:01:58,841 Speaker 6: possible cover ups. If you've got a. 32 00:02:00,321 --> 00:02:04,081 Speaker 5: Bit of a ring that's catering for the high high 33 00:02:04,201 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 5: end of the sign, you'd probably want to protect that pitter. 34 00:02:08,281 --> 00:02:12,401 Speaker 1: Boring what happened to Joe, Anne and Kirsty. 35 00:02:13,721 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: I just appeal to those now, do you that may 36 00:02:16,361 --> 00:02:22,001 Speaker 3: have close answers, please find it within your heart during 37 00:02:22,081 --> 00:02:24,161 Speaker 3: crime stalkers put an end. 38 00:02:24,001 --> 00:02:24,601 Speaker 5: To our pain. 39 00:02:27,081 --> 00:02:27,761 Speaker 6: Thank you, Susan. 40 00:02:30,921 --> 00:02:34,481 Speaker 1: So far in this story, we've heard from Susie Ratcliffe 41 00:02:35,161 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: about her eleven year old sister and four year old 42 00:02:37,921 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: Kirsty Gordon, who were last seen leaving the Adelaide oval 43 00:02:42,041 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: with a man in August nineteen seventy three. Susie has 44 00:02:46,441 --> 00:02:50,081 Speaker 1: lived for the last forty seven years wondering what happened 45 00:02:50,081 --> 00:02:54,721 Speaker 1: to her big sister that she never met. Kirsty. Gordon's parents, 46 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,601 Speaker 1: Christine and Greg, had left their young daughter with her 47 00:02:57,641 --> 00:03:00,801 Speaker 1: grandmother that Saturday while they attended a wedding in the 48 00:03:00,841 --> 00:03:06,321 Speaker 1: Brossa Valley. Late Saturday afternoon, they took a phone call 49 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,401 Speaker 1: that would change their lives forever. 50 00:03:10,001 --> 00:03:13,161 Speaker 3: It was not something that you know, either either family 51 00:03:14,001 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: would have ever expected. I mean, Christine and Greg were, 52 00:03:21,081 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 3: you know, up in the Barossa Valley and it came 53 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,121 Speaker 3: as a hell of a shock for them. They were 54 00:03:25,361 --> 00:03:30,641 Speaker 3: just about sitting to sit down for dinner when you know, uh, 55 00:03:30,921 --> 00:03:33,881 Speaker 3: someone come over and approached Greg and said there's a 56 00:03:33,881 --> 00:03:46,601 Speaker 3: phone call for him to get that phone call. You know, 57 00:03:48,241 --> 00:03:52,841 Speaker 3: it just it absolutely flawed him and Christine. So, you know, 58 00:03:52,921 --> 00:03:59,041 Speaker 3: they suddenly went from spending a nice, relaxing weekend away 59 00:03:59,081 --> 00:04:02,121 Speaker 3: to having to come home to the news that their 60 00:04:02,241 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: daughter is missing. You know, I have spoken with Christine, 61 00:04:10,601 --> 00:04:13,561 Speaker 3: you know, in recent years, and she's always said to 62 00:04:13,601 --> 00:04:17,241 Speaker 3: me that, you know, she was so incredibly proud of 63 00:04:17,321 --> 00:04:24,801 Speaker 3: Joanne for trying to help, for trying to protect Kirsty. 64 00:04:26,361 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: There's certainly been no animosity between the families with that regard. 65 00:04:31,601 --> 00:04:34,641 Speaker 1: On the day of the disappearance, There were multiple credible 66 00:04:34,721 --> 00:04:37,241 Speaker 1: sightings of the girls between the time of three point 67 00:04:37,241 --> 00:04:41,241 Speaker 1: thirty and five pm. These sightings were both inside the 68 00:04:41,281 --> 00:04:44,121 Speaker 1: grounds of the Adelaide Oval and on the streets and 69 00:04:44,201 --> 00:04:48,241 Speaker 1: roads around the area. There was also one sighting over 70 00:04:48,361 --> 00:04:52,161 Speaker 1: three kilometers from where they were both last seen. The 71 00:04:52,281 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: first sighting comes from a young boy who took a 72 00:04:55,481 --> 00:04:58,561 Speaker 1: liking to Joanne on a previous trip to the footy. 73 00:04:59,161 --> 00:05:02,401 Speaker 3: He was one of the little guys that walked around 74 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,281 Speaker 3: with the tray with the lollies and selling, you know, 75 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,881 Speaker 3: those sort of things. We believe his sighting is very 76 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,041 Speaker 3: credible in the fact that he admitted that he had 77 00:05:14,041 --> 00:05:16,281 Speaker 3: a bit of a crush on joe Anne. He'd seen 78 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 3: her in past games and he'd sort of been watching her, 79 00:05:24,841 --> 00:05:29,801 Speaker 3: So we do believe that what he saw is quite relevant. 80 00:05:31,121 --> 00:05:33,041 Speaker 3: The fact that he was able to describe what Joe 81 00:05:33,081 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 3: Anne was wearing as well, you know, just verified that 82 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: yet he was a credible witness. 83 00:05:40,401 --> 00:05:41,601 Speaker 1: What was she wearing on the day? 84 00:05:42,281 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: She had on I think it was a mustard colored top. 85 00:05:48,201 --> 00:05:49,841 Speaker 3: I can tell you that she had white shoes on, 86 00:05:50,001 --> 00:05:53,521 Speaker 3: white socks, and she had a little necklace, just like 87 00:05:53,561 --> 00:05:56,921 Speaker 3: a little cheap charm on it. Those I definitely remember, 88 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,601 Speaker 3: and she had her hair and pigtails. 89 00:06:01,081 --> 00:06:03,601 Speaker 1: So the boy saw her leaving the oval, and he 90 00:06:03,641 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: had a description of the man that he believes she 91 00:06:06,521 --> 00:06:06,961 Speaker 1: left with. 92 00:06:08,201 --> 00:06:12,361 Speaker 3: Fairly tall man who was stooped, walking like as if 93 00:06:12,401 --> 00:06:14,481 Speaker 3: he you know, he had a bit of a saw 94 00:06:14,561 --> 00:06:22,161 Speaker 3: back sort of thing, very like, quite thin build. I 95 00:06:22,361 --> 00:06:31,921 Speaker 3: was wearing a like a bowler's hat, very thin drawn face, 96 00:06:33,721 --> 00:06:37,481 Speaker 3: no sort of facial hair in any way. 97 00:06:40,401 --> 00:06:42,801 Speaker 2: They were seen in the company of a man wearing 98 00:06:42,801 --> 00:06:46,401 Speaker 2: a check coat and a brimmed hat, leading them from 99 00:06:46,481 --> 00:06:48,961 Speaker 2: the ground, never to be seen again. 100 00:06:49,801 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: Description has actually proved useful later on through the years 101 00:06:54,601 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: that have passed. 102 00:06:55,361 --> 00:06:58,961 Speaker 3: Is that right, Yes, that's correct. There have been a 103 00:06:59,001 --> 00:07:03,681 Speaker 3: couple of suspects that fit the description and have also 104 00:07:05,121 --> 00:07:10,081 Speaker 3: correlated with the suspect in the Beaumont children case. 105 00:07:11,041 --> 00:07:14,641 Speaker 1: There was also another siding the man dressed in women's clothing. 106 00:07:15,281 --> 00:07:18,601 Speaker 3: Ah, yes, the gentleman that was dressed in women's clothing. 107 00:07:20,121 --> 00:07:23,561 Speaker 3: A number of people come forward in regards to him 108 00:07:23,601 --> 00:07:27,881 Speaker 3: because he was sort of loitering around where the lady's 109 00:07:27,921 --> 00:07:34,401 Speaker 3: toilets were. There were police investigations into that, and eventually 110 00:07:34,441 --> 00:07:38,321 Speaker 3: the guy actually come forward and there. 111 00:07:38,201 --> 00:07:38,641 Speaker 4: Was no. 112 00:07:40,041 --> 00:07:42,721 Speaker 3: You know, nothing nasty about it all. It was actually 113 00:07:42,801 --> 00:07:48,561 Speaker 3: he lost a bet with some of his mates and 114 00:07:49,041 --> 00:07:52,441 Speaker 3: his repercussions where he had to dress up as a 115 00:07:52,481 --> 00:07:57,601 Speaker 3: woman and prayed around the oval. You know, it was 116 00:07:57,801 --> 00:08:01,641 Speaker 3: a cause for concern because, yes, certainly, especially back in 117 00:08:01,681 --> 00:08:04,481 Speaker 3: the seventies, you didn't see a lot of men dressed 118 00:08:04,521 --> 00:08:06,801 Speaker 3: up as women, or women dressed up as man for 119 00:08:06,881 --> 00:08:11,001 Speaker 3: that men for that matter, So there were quite quite 120 00:08:11,001 --> 00:08:14,961 Speaker 3: a lot of concerns that he was a pedophile hanging around. 121 00:08:15,281 --> 00:08:17,921 Speaker 3: But it turned out to be just a just a 122 00:08:17,921 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 3: prank gone horribly wrong. 123 00:08:21,361 --> 00:08:23,561 Speaker 1: You can imagine people would just be trying to help, 124 00:08:23,721 --> 00:08:26,601 Speaker 1: and it's often said that any information, no matter how 125 00:08:26,681 --> 00:08:31,121 Speaker 1: small or insignificant, in a missing person's case, could be 126 00:08:31,201 --> 00:08:33,601 Speaker 1: that missing piece of the puzzle that could lead to 127 00:08:33,641 --> 00:08:37,761 Speaker 1: an answer. However, you can also imagine that as each 128 00:08:37,801 --> 00:08:40,841 Speaker 1: one of these new leads or bits of information comes forward, 129 00:08:41,481 --> 00:08:45,321 Speaker 1: the families of the missing person just hurt a little more. 130 00:08:46,201 --> 00:08:50,041 Speaker 3: Every time someone come forward with information or sighting or 131 00:08:50,761 --> 00:08:55,601 Speaker 3: you know, some theory our hut. You know, you'd be 132 00:08:55,641 --> 00:08:57,881 Speaker 3: all excited thinking, oh, this is it. You know, we're 133 00:08:57,921 --> 00:08:59,401 Speaker 3: going to find it. We're going to bring a home. 134 00:08:59,881 --> 00:09:02,961 Speaker 3: You know, this this could be the you know, the 135 00:09:03,041 --> 00:09:08,241 Speaker 3: answer to all our prayers. And then when it turns 136 00:09:08,241 --> 00:09:11,001 Speaker 3: out that it's not, it's like having a whole world 137 00:09:12,281 --> 00:09:18,401 Speaker 3: ripped apart yet again. You know, just you say to yourself, look, 138 00:09:18,441 --> 00:09:20,321 Speaker 3: I'm not going to get my hopes up this it 139 00:09:20,361 --> 00:09:24,281 Speaker 3: could turn into nothing, but you know, you can't help 140 00:09:24,321 --> 00:09:28,721 Speaker 3: but become hopeful that yeah, this is this is this 141 00:09:28,841 --> 00:09:35,321 Speaker 3: is it. It's like being dragged along behind a car, you know, 142 00:09:35,361 --> 00:09:41,481 Speaker 3: it emotionally wrecks you. And seeing that happened to my 143 00:09:41,601 --> 00:09:46,041 Speaker 3: mum and my brother so often over the years, it's 144 00:09:46,361 --> 00:09:50,801 Speaker 3: it is, it's completely heartbreaking. I mean, it affects me 145 00:09:51,481 --> 00:09:54,921 Speaker 3: to a certain point because you know, she's my sister. 146 00:09:55,241 --> 00:09:58,321 Speaker 3: I've grown up knowing all there is to know about her. 147 00:09:59,801 --> 00:10:05,721 Speaker 3: But in a way i am I sort of emotionally 148 00:10:05,761 --> 00:10:10,281 Speaker 3: removed somewhat from it because I never had the opportunity 149 00:10:10,321 --> 00:10:16,641 Speaker 3: to actually meet her and physically know the true person 150 00:10:16,721 --> 00:10:20,161 Speaker 3: she was. You know, I'm only going on what family 151 00:10:20,201 --> 00:10:24,761 Speaker 3: and friends have told me over the years. Whereas for 152 00:10:24,921 --> 00:10:28,801 Speaker 3: Mum and my brother and of course my dad, you know, 153 00:10:29,361 --> 00:10:35,761 Speaker 3: they spent eleven years with her, mum gave birth to her, 154 00:10:36,681 --> 00:10:41,321 Speaker 3: so their connection is far greater than the mind. So 155 00:10:42,521 --> 00:10:47,081 Speaker 3: every time her new information come to light, it was 156 00:10:47,161 --> 00:10:52,481 Speaker 3: just like going through that whole heartbreaking process of having 157 00:10:52,481 --> 00:10:56,601 Speaker 3: her taken away from them yet again. I mean, my 158 00:10:57,521 --> 00:11:02,641 Speaker 3: dad passed away when I was seven years old, and 159 00:11:02,721 --> 00:11:06,401 Speaker 3: even though like it was because he had cancer, doctors 160 00:11:06,401 --> 00:11:09,481 Speaker 3: said that he probably also broke died because of a 161 00:11:09,521 --> 00:11:18,121 Speaker 3: broken heart. So not only was my dad my sister 162 00:11:18,241 --> 00:11:22,961 Speaker 3: taken from our family, so was my dad, you know, 163 00:11:23,121 --> 00:11:27,481 Speaker 3: because if this hadn't have happened, he may or may 164 00:11:27,521 --> 00:11:30,921 Speaker 3: not have got cancer. Over the years, I mean, after 165 00:11:31,001 --> 00:11:35,041 Speaker 3: Joanne disappeared, Dad went from smoking twenty cigarettes a day 166 00:11:35,881 --> 00:11:38,361 Speaker 3: to like one hundred and twenty cigarettes a day, you know, 167 00:11:38,521 --> 00:11:42,161 Speaker 3: to be smoke a cigarette, put it out, light up 168 00:11:42,201 --> 00:11:46,121 Speaker 3: another one, you know, and we know now that the 169 00:11:46,161 --> 00:11:48,601 Speaker 3: cigarettes are not good for your health, so you know, 170 00:11:48,641 --> 00:11:53,401 Speaker 3: it was certainly a contributing factor. But watching my mum 171 00:11:54,321 --> 00:11:59,361 Speaker 3: and my brother go through the torment and the stress 172 00:11:59,601 --> 00:12:05,841 Speaker 3: and the anguish and the angst, you know, it's it 173 00:12:06,001 --> 00:12:10,081 Speaker 3: tears me apart, knowing that I couldn't do anything to 174 00:12:10,121 --> 00:12:14,081 Speaker 3: help them. 175 00:12:14,441 --> 00:12:17,601 Speaker 1: Nine years would pass and then one day a woman 176 00:12:17,681 --> 00:12:20,841 Speaker 1: heard the story of the Adelaide Oval abduction on the radio. 177 00:12:21,921 --> 00:12:25,521 Speaker 1: She thought she had some information she remembers from when 178 00:12:25,521 --> 00:12:27,401 Speaker 1: she was a kid at the football with her dad 179 00:12:27,401 --> 00:12:31,201 Speaker 1: on that day in August nineteen seventy three, so she 180 00:12:31,241 --> 00:12:31,721 Speaker 1: called in. 181 00:12:34,841 --> 00:12:35,321 Speaker 5: Help me on the. 182 00:12:35,361 --> 00:12:38,481 Speaker 1: Radio this morning about a girl I think I'm a 183 00:12:38,561 --> 00:12:40,001 Speaker 1: man with my dad when I'm in now. 184 00:12:42,481 --> 00:12:48,161 Speaker 3: She said that her and her dad saw a man 185 00:12:49,921 --> 00:12:57,801 Speaker 3: and the two girls walking sort of along the road, 186 00:12:57,881 --> 00:13:00,961 Speaker 3: sort of just opposite from where they were. It was 187 00:13:01,041 --> 00:13:02,801 Speaker 3: not far from the Adelaide Oval. I think it was 188 00:13:03,121 --> 00:13:08,481 Speaker 3: around the Torrens River area. And she said that she'd 189 00:13:08,521 --> 00:13:12,881 Speaker 3: seen like the older girl being joe Ane, had appeared 190 00:13:12,961 --> 00:13:16,801 Speaker 3: quite distressed, upset, and then there was another little girl 191 00:13:16,881 --> 00:13:21,521 Speaker 3: which the man was carrying. She said that the older 192 00:13:21,561 --> 00:13:28,241 Speaker 3: girl was struggling with the man, and she mentioned something 193 00:13:28,321 --> 00:13:31,721 Speaker 3: to her dad, but nothing sort of come about it. 194 00:13:35,721 --> 00:13:41,881 Speaker 3: She recalls sort of hearing a siren, which would sort 195 00:13:41,921 --> 00:13:44,921 Speaker 3: of correlate with around the time the kids went missing, 196 00:13:47,121 --> 00:13:49,561 Speaker 3: because it wasn't far from the Adelaide over and the 197 00:13:49,641 --> 00:13:54,641 Speaker 3: sirens are so loud there. There wasn't a tool Later 198 00:13:54,761 --> 00:13:58,641 Speaker 3: days that you know, they heard on the radio that 199 00:13:59,041 --> 00:14:03,961 Speaker 3: about the two girls weren't missing, so her dad actually 200 00:14:03,961 --> 00:14:07,361 Speaker 3: contacted the police and she spoke with them, but nothing 201 00:14:07,401 --> 00:14:12,081 Speaker 3: come about it. It wasn't until later years that you 202 00:14:12,121 --> 00:14:15,281 Speaker 3: know she'd been contacted. She was living here in Victoria 203 00:14:15,321 --> 00:14:18,081 Speaker 3: and she had been contacted by a friend I think 204 00:14:19,361 --> 00:14:23,561 Speaker 3: to say that they had seen a man on TV 205 00:14:24,721 --> 00:14:30,201 Speaker 3: fitting the description that Sue had spoken about, and her 206 00:14:30,241 --> 00:14:34,201 Speaker 3: husband actually encouraged her to contact police. The person that 207 00:14:38,121 --> 00:14:40,001 Speaker 3: you know that that was described on the on the 208 00:14:40,081 --> 00:14:48,681 Speaker 3: TV was actually Arthur Brown, who was charged with the 209 00:14:48,801 --> 00:14:56,001 Speaker 3: murders of two little girls in Queensland, but sadly never 210 00:14:57,201 --> 00:14:58,321 Speaker 3: never ended up in jail. 211 00:14:58,921 --> 00:15:00,361 Speaker 1: Tell me what you know about Arthur Brown? 212 00:15:01,321 --> 00:15:07,001 Speaker 3: An evil, evil man, uh, from what I have read 213 00:15:07,401 --> 00:15:14,401 Speaker 3: and researched about him. He was married to this woman 214 00:15:15,641 --> 00:15:23,841 Speaker 3: and he was known to be violent and creepy I 215 00:15:24,081 --> 00:15:29,721 Speaker 3: have to other like to kids, especially little girls around him. 216 00:15:30,121 --> 00:15:37,041 Speaker 3: And then his wife suddenly passed away and the younger 217 00:15:37,081 --> 00:15:42,001 Speaker 3: sister married him, and she kept a lot of secrets. 218 00:15:46,121 --> 00:15:50,681 Speaker 1: Arthur Stanley Brown was born in Queensland in nineteen twelve 219 00:15:51,241 --> 00:15:54,441 Speaker 1: and moved to Townsville with his parents when he was four. 220 00:15:55,601 --> 00:15:59,201 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty four, Brown married and became a stepfather 221 00:15:59,761 --> 00:16:04,001 Speaker 1: to three children. Years later, some of those step children 222 00:16:04,121 --> 00:16:07,281 Speaker 1: came forward to say they had caught him molesting a child. 223 00:16:08,401 --> 00:16:12,321 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty two, another child told her parents that 224 00:16:12,361 --> 00:16:18,881 Speaker 1: Brown had molested her while she was a small girl. Townsville, 225 00:16:19,241 --> 00:16:22,801 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, five year old Susan and seven year old 226 00:16:22,881 --> 00:16:26,601 Speaker 1: Judith Mackay disappeared on the morning of Wednesday, the twenty 227 00:16:26,641 --> 00:16:30,761 Speaker 1: sixth of August nineteen seventy from a school bus stop 228 00:16:31,041 --> 00:16:35,041 Speaker 1: two hundred meters from their home. A search for the 229 00:16:35,041 --> 00:16:39,361 Speaker 1: missing girls was mounted. The girl's bodies were found on 230 00:16:39,481 --> 00:16:43,201 Speaker 1: Friday in the dry bed of a creek twenty five 231 00:16:43,281 --> 00:16:49,881 Speaker 1: kilometers southwest of Townsville. Susan was the first found, and 232 00:16:49,961 --> 00:16:53,561 Speaker 1: a trail of footprints from her body led searchers seventy 233 00:16:53,641 --> 00:16:57,361 Speaker 1: meters to where her sister, Judith's body lay. A post 234 00:16:57,401 --> 00:17:02,081 Speaker 1: mortem revealed that Susan had been raped, strangled, and stabbed 235 00:17:02,081 --> 00:17:07,001 Speaker 1: three times in the chest, possibly after death. Judith had 236 00:17:07,041 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: also been raped and stabbed three times in the chest, 237 00:17:10,521 --> 00:17:12,761 Speaker 1: but the cause of her death was determined to be 238 00:17:13,441 --> 00:17:22,001 Speaker 1: asphyxiation by sand. Their school uniforms, straw hats, and shoes 239 00:17:22,281 --> 00:17:26,761 Speaker 1: were beside them with each shoe containing a neatly folded sock, 240 00:17:27,521 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: while the uniforms were folded neatly inside of their school bags. 241 00:17:32,681 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: One witness saw the girls talking to a man in 242 00:17:35,001 --> 00:17:38,521 Speaker 1: a car at the bus stop at about eight ten 243 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: on the morning of their disappearance. Just after eleven, a 244 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:46,481 Speaker 1: car pulled into a service station eighty five kilometers south 245 00:17:46,481 --> 00:17:51,721 Speaker 1: of Townsville and the driver bought petrol. Two witnesses said 246 00:17:51,761 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: it was a blue Vauxhall Victor, a very uncommon car 247 00:17:55,441 --> 00:18:03,801 Speaker 1: at the time. Arthur Brown, who matched the suspect's descriptions 248 00:18:04,281 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: and owned a blue Vauxhall Victor with an odd colored 249 00:18:08,041 --> 00:18:12,681 Speaker 1: driver's door, was never a suspect. In the original police investigation, 250 00:18:14,561 --> 00:18:18,321 Speaker 1: the evidence given by two witnesses who identified the car 251 00:18:18,481 --> 00:18:22,801 Speaker 1: as a Vauxhall was rejected as unreliable, mainly due to 252 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: the belief hell by police the car was a hold on. 253 00:18:26,561 --> 00:18:29,801 Speaker 1: They were never questioned in depth, which police later admitted 254 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,281 Speaker 1: hindreed investigations as both were the only witnesses to speak 255 00:18:34,321 --> 00:18:40,601 Speaker 1: to the suspect while the girls were in the car. 256 00:18:41,721 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety eight, a cousin of Arthur Brown's wife, 257 00:18:45,961 --> 00:18:50,161 Speaker 1: who had been one of Brown's victims also had suspicions 258 00:18:50,561 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: about his involvement with the McKay Sisters. She decided to 259 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: phone crime Stoppers after they aired a program on the case. 260 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 3: Welcome to Crime Stop. How can to help you? 261 00:19:06,441 --> 00:19:10,241 Speaker 1: Your call to crime Stoppers can really make a difference. 262 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,881 Speaker 1: Visit crime Stoppers online to find out more. Brown, who 263 00:19:15,921 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: had been working as a carpenter at the McKay Sisters 264 00:19:19,041 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: school at the time, had been obsessed by the case, 265 00:19:23,201 --> 00:19:26,761 Speaker 1: falsely claiming he knew the girl's father, and two weeks 266 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: after the murders, he had offered to take two of 267 00:19:29,681 --> 00:19:35,321 Speaker 1: his wife's cousins to view the murder side. He had 268 00:19:35,321 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: replaced the odd colored door from his blue Vauxhall Victor. 269 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,001 Speaker 1: He'd buried it, then later dug it up and took 270 00:19:42,041 --> 00:19:46,721 Speaker 1: it to the rubbish tip. Brown had twice previously confessed 271 00:19:46,761 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: to the murders. In nineteen seventy, Brown was drinking with 272 00:19:50,921 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: a man who didn't know him, but claimed that Brown 273 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,201 Speaker 1: had asked him if he had been following the murder 274 00:19:57,201 --> 00:20:00,921 Speaker 1: of the mackay sisters a few days earlier, and then 275 00:20:00,961 --> 00:20:03,281 Speaker 1: he told him that police were looking for the wrong 276 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,801 Speaker 1: car and that he had comemitted the murders. Brown was 277 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,281 Speaker 1: arrested on forty five charges of sexual assault and the 278 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,321 Speaker 1: rape of six children three to ten years of age, 279 00:20:15,761 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: and for the murders of Susan and Judith McKay. The 280 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: trial of Arthur Stanley Brown for the murders of Judith 281 00:20:28,001 --> 00:20:34,921 Speaker 1: and Susan McKay began on eighteen October nineteen ninety nine. 282 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,801 Speaker 1: Although evidence regarding Brown's pedophilia had been given at the 283 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,041 Speaker 1: committal hearing, it had been ruled prejudicial a trial and 284 00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: therefore could not be put before the Supreme Court jury. 285 00:20:48,481 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: The jury were unable to reach a decision on the 286 00:20:52,321 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: strong but circumstantial evidence. Trial was set for the twenty 287 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 1: fifth of July two thousand, where the defense argued Brown 288 00:21:00,241 --> 00:21:03,241 Speaker 1: was unfit to plead, and a new trial was set 289 00:21:03,241 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: for the thirty first of July. Before it could start, 290 00:21:07,281 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: newspapers reported that the case did not proceed for legal 291 00:21:11,041 --> 00:21:16,281 Speaker 1: reasons which cannot be published. The Court's suppressed release of 292 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: the legal reasons until July two thousand and one. Brown's wife, Charlotte, 293 00:21:21,681 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: had referred the case to the Queensland Mental Health Tribunal, 294 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,961 Speaker 1: who ruled that Brown had progressive dementia and was also 295 00:21:28,961 --> 00:21:33,281 Speaker 1: suffering from Alzheimer's disease and was thus unfit to stand trial. 296 00:21:36,721 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: Queensland's DPP announced that her offers had decided not to 297 00:21:41,681 --> 00:21:46,361 Speaker 1: proceed with the retrial and all charges against Brown were dropped. 298 00:21:50,761 --> 00:21:54,561 Speaker 1: Brown's wife of twenty four years, Charlotte Brown, died in 299 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,041 Speaker 1: April two thousand and two. Ostracized by his family, Arthur 300 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,161 Speaker 1: Brown moved into a nursing home in North Queensland, where 301 00:22:02,201 --> 00:22:06,761 Speaker 1: he died three months later on July six. Officially an 302 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: innocent man, his steps on Robert later stated, I can't 303 00:22:13,721 --> 00:22:17,681 Speaker 1: believe such an insignificant little lasshul had such a profound 304 00:22:17,681 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: effect on so many people's lives everybody involved in the 305 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,321 Speaker 1: Mackay case. He is satisfied that Brown committed the murders 306 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: and police have closed the case. Susie Ratcliffe and the 307 00:22:32,481 --> 00:22:36,801 Speaker 1: family believe that Arthur Stanley Brown is a significant person 308 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,521 Speaker 1: of interest in the case of a missing sister. 309 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 3: For a number of years they believed it was certainly 310 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,761 Speaker 3: possible with him, even though he lived in Queensland. There 311 00:22:53,761 --> 00:22:57,801 Speaker 3: was reports that he'd been in Adelaide around the time 312 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 3: of the girl's disappearance. Somebody had actually been speaking with 313 00:23:01,961 --> 00:23:07,321 Speaker 3: him a couple of years after the kids who disappeared, 314 00:23:09,241 --> 00:23:12,761 Speaker 3: and he'd stated he was talking about the Festival Theater, 315 00:23:12,961 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 3: you know, what it was, what it looked like, and 316 00:23:17,921 --> 00:23:22,041 Speaker 3: how it would have been. It was nearly completed, and 317 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,521 Speaker 3: that was happening around the time of the girl's disappearance, 318 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,521 Speaker 3: So the descriptions he was giving of the Festival Theater 319 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:35,081 Speaker 3: actually correlated with the dates around the girl's disappearance. There 320 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 3: were records, but unfortunately they were destroyed, so they couldn't 321 00:23:42,441 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 3: confirm that he was actually in Adelaide at the time. 322 00:23:47,961 --> 00:23:53,521 Speaker 3: But he was also known to travel sort of around Australia, 323 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 3: so you know, it was certainly a possibility that unfortunately 324 00:23:57,721 --> 00:24:01,441 Speaker 3: he died before we could get any information out of him. 325 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,641 Speaker 3: You know, I certainly believe he's a prime suspect. 326 00:24:13,321 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: Although now dead, Arthur Brown is certainly a suspect in 327 00:24:17,001 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: the disappearance of Kirsty and Joanne. There is another strong 328 00:24:20,481 --> 00:24:24,001 Speaker 1: suspect who fits the description of the despicable Arthur Brown, 329 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:29,681 Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a future episode. Family tried 330 00:24:29,681 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: a couple of non conventional ways of finding answers to 331 00:24:32,201 --> 00:24:34,281 Speaker 1: what happened to your sister and Kirsty. 332 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:41,801 Speaker 3: We had Doris Stokes. She was from the UK. She 333 00:24:42,761 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 3: spoke with my family and my dad latched on to 334 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,321 Speaker 3: basically anything and everything she said. 335 00:24:50,201 --> 00:24:53,921 Speaker 4: And I'd pick up The man in question is very angry, 336 00:24:54,801 --> 00:24:57,481 Speaker 4: but the main cause of it is a dad is 337 00:24:57,521 --> 00:25:00,241 Speaker 4: he wants to ask his wife to forgive him. 338 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:04,041 Speaker 3: Because I suppose, you know, in their circumstance, you just 339 00:25:05,721 --> 00:25:09,041 Speaker 3: you listen to anyone if it means, you know, the 340 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,201 Speaker 3: possibility of finding you're missing loved one. So we had 341 00:25:13,321 --> 00:25:18,161 Speaker 3: Doris Stokes. We also had Chrosso who had also been 342 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 3: flown out for the Beaumont children. And then we also 343 00:25:23,201 --> 00:25:26,241 Speaker 3: had a lady who ended up becoming quite good friends 344 00:25:26,241 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 3: with my mum and dad died clothes in all of 345 00:25:31,201 --> 00:25:38,001 Speaker 3: the beliefs of these clear voyance you know, they're all 346 00:25:38,201 --> 00:25:43,241 Speaker 3: meticulously investigated by police. But unfortunately, here we are forty 347 00:25:43,241 --> 00:25:49,761 Speaker 3: seven years later and it hasn't eventuated to anything. I 348 00:25:49,801 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: don't hold any animosity to any of these people that 349 00:25:55,241 --> 00:26:01,801 Speaker 3: have given my family hope. You know, it's their belief, 350 00:26:02,521 --> 00:26:06,721 Speaker 3: and you know that's you know, I'm open to interpretations 351 00:26:06,721 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 3: of anything. You know, I'm thankful that they tried to 352 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:11,921 Speaker 3: help my family. 353 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: Doris Stokes, the spiritualist from the UK, actually told your 354 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,281 Speaker 1: dad lairs the name of a man that she believe 355 00:26:20,441 --> 00:26:24,481 Speaker 1: killed her sister and then yes, possibly where her body 356 00:26:24,561 --> 00:26:25,081 Speaker 1: was buried. 357 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,201 Speaker 3: I never knew who the man was. My family never 358 00:26:29,241 --> 00:26:32,761 Speaker 3: told me told me that, but it was supposed to 359 00:26:32,801 --> 00:26:43,281 Speaker 3: be a family friend. And police investigated, but you know, 360 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 3: nothing eventuated out of it. They also searched the area 361 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:54,281 Speaker 3: that you know she mentioned, but once again nothing was found. 362 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: Your dad took some unusual steps in the weeks before 363 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: he passed, while ill with the media in Adelaide. 364 00:27:03,761 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 3: My dad was he was an unusual guy. He would 365 00:27:11,761 --> 00:27:14,481 Speaker 3: he would take whatevery whatever steps he could to be 366 00:27:14,561 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 3: able to ensure that Joanna Kirsty were not forgotten. Leading 367 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:29,521 Speaker 3: up to his passing, he knew it was imminent. He 368 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 3: knew that it wasn't that far away. So he called 369 00:27:35,961 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 3: on the Advertiser, the local paper in South Australia, to 370 00:27:42,241 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 3: send out a journalist so he could record his last 371 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 3: statement to the paper and to the public. Dad was 372 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,241 Speaker 3: in hospital by this time. He was in the library hospital. 373 00:28:08,481 --> 00:28:12,161 Speaker 3: One of the journalists. Dad was even though he likes 374 00:28:12,201 --> 00:28:15,281 Speaker 3: to get the girl's story in the paper no matter what. 375 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,521 Speaker 3: He was very selective about who he spoke with. Main 376 00:28:20,561 --> 00:28:23,241 Speaker 3: reason being is that over the years there had been 377 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:29,721 Speaker 3: numerous quotations in the paper that were untruth. 378 00:28:31,761 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: It's taken a terrible toll on both families. Les Ratcliffe, 379 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,281 Speaker 2: Joanne's father, died of cancer in nineteen eighty one, pained 380 00:28:41,481 --> 00:28:45,801 Speaker 2: at not knowing, and all Greg Gordon asks for is 381 00:28:45,841 --> 00:28:48,881 Speaker 2: a tangible land to the family's suffering. 382 00:28:48,801 --> 00:28:54,561 Speaker 4: A level of uncertainty, which I guess it's through just 383 00:28:54,681 --> 00:29:00,121 Speaker 4: not knowing, through not having any hard facts to hang 384 00:29:00,161 --> 00:29:07,161 Speaker 4: on to. Everything seems to be conjecture that you know, 385 00:29:07,441 --> 00:29:10,121 Speaker 4: living in a world of not knowing is probably one 386 00:29:10,121 --> 00:29:11,201 Speaker 4: of the hardest things to do. 387 00:29:11,641 --> 00:29:16,241 Speaker 3: Dad took whatever steps he could. If it meant some 388 00:29:16,401 --> 00:29:20,441 Speaker 3: information coming forward, then Dad would do whatever he could 389 00:29:21,481 --> 00:29:25,801 Speaker 3: to ensure that he covered all bases in the hope 390 00:29:25,801 --> 00:29:27,041 Speaker 3: to find John Kirsty. 391 00:29:28,361 --> 00:29:30,401 Speaker 1: It was his dying wish. 392 00:29:30,561 --> 00:29:38,481 Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly was. You know, he said that in part 393 00:29:39,881 --> 00:29:44,241 Speaker 3: that you know, after Joe disappeared, part of him died 394 00:29:44,281 --> 00:29:48,881 Speaker 3: with her, you know, and even though and then ensuing 395 00:29:48,961 --> 00:29:54,681 Speaker 3: years after that, you know, he he would be given 396 00:29:54,721 --> 00:29:57,641 Speaker 3: the outlook that he was smiling on the outside of 397 00:29:57,721 --> 00:30:02,641 Speaker 3: jovial on the inside. It was he was crying inside, 398 00:30:03,081 --> 00:30:05,401 Speaker 3: and that it took a number of years him to 399 00:30:05,401 --> 00:30:07,281 Speaker 3: get back to three parts of what he was before, 400 00:30:07,281 --> 00:30:13,241 Speaker 3: the before Joe disappeared. You know, he tried so hard 401 00:30:13,401 --> 00:30:19,681 Speaker 3: after Joe disappeared to try and get back to, yeah, 402 00:30:20,761 --> 00:30:23,681 Speaker 3: a semblance of himself, of what he used to be, 403 00:30:24,441 --> 00:30:27,881 Speaker 3: you know, not just for himself, but for the family, 404 00:30:28,281 --> 00:30:33,281 Speaker 3: you know, to try and be you know, the the 405 00:30:33,321 --> 00:30:38,001 Speaker 3: strong one for Mum and for David. But you know, 406 00:30:38,161 --> 00:30:43,321 Speaker 3: it was so incredibly difficult, you know, and even when 407 00:30:43,321 --> 00:30:47,401 Speaker 3: I came along, it was you know, he'd put on 408 00:30:47,441 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 3: a happy face and we'd play and we used to 409 00:30:52,281 --> 00:30:55,561 Speaker 3: we used to plant freezers in the little garden that 410 00:30:55,841 --> 00:30:59,201 Speaker 3: he dug up especially for me, and you know, we'd 411 00:30:59,201 --> 00:31:01,561 Speaker 3: go out and we'd do these these sort of things 412 00:31:01,601 --> 00:31:04,001 Speaker 3: together as a family. We'd go out fishing on the 413 00:31:04,001 --> 00:31:08,521 Speaker 3: weekends or you know, camping and you know, with family 414 00:31:08,641 --> 00:31:13,081 Speaker 3: or friends, and you'd see, you know that he was 415 00:31:13,281 --> 00:31:17,321 Speaker 3: he was happy. He was smiling and laughing, but there 416 00:31:17,361 --> 00:31:21,721 Speaker 3: was always a sadness in his eyes. And it was 417 00:31:21,761 --> 00:31:23,881 Speaker 3: the same with Mum, you know, there was there was 418 00:31:23,921 --> 00:31:27,161 Speaker 3: always sadness in her eyes. No matter how much of 419 00:31:27,201 --> 00:31:32,801 Speaker 3: a front she tried to put on, you know it 420 00:31:32,881 --> 00:31:36,001 Speaker 3: was it was so incredibly difficult for them. You know, 421 00:31:36,161 --> 00:31:43,681 Speaker 3: I haven't one memory as a little girl. I used 422 00:31:43,721 --> 00:31:46,681 Speaker 3: to sneak out of my bedroom of a night time 423 00:31:47,041 --> 00:31:53,361 Speaker 3: after everybody gone to bed, and I used to talk 424 00:31:53,401 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 3: to Joeanne. She was in a picture frame on the mantelpiece, 425 00:31:57,281 --> 00:32:00,561 Speaker 3: and we had a we had a fish tank. Mom 426 00:32:00,641 --> 00:32:03,441 Speaker 3: and Dad loved fish. We had this big fish tank 427 00:32:03,481 --> 00:32:05,401 Speaker 3: with a little the light on top of it, so 428 00:32:05,481 --> 00:32:08,401 Speaker 3: I would glow at the nighttime. And so I'd sit 429 00:32:08,441 --> 00:32:12,761 Speaker 3: there and I'd talk to Joanne. I'll ask her what 430 00:32:12,801 --> 00:32:15,161 Speaker 3: sort of person she was, and when she's coming home, 431 00:32:15,801 --> 00:32:19,841 Speaker 3: all these stupid questions that young little girl I could 432 00:32:19,841 --> 00:32:24,841 Speaker 3: think of. But I could always hear and Dad crying 433 00:32:27,121 --> 00:32:32,361 Speaker 3: in their bedroom, which you know, they they hardly ever 434 00:32:32,401 --> 00:32:38,001 Speaker 3: did in front of me because they didn't want to 435 00:32:38,081 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 3: upset me. They didn't want me to know that you know, 436 00:32:41,801 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 3: they were upset. They always tried to put on a happy, 437 00:32:45,281 --> 00:32:50,641 Speaker 3: joe your face in front of me. But you know, 438 00:32:51,161 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 3: as even as a young girl, you know I knew that, 439 00:32:55,921 --> 00:33:02,161 Speaker 3: you know, something wasn't right. 440 00:33:06,241 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: In the next episode, a second person of interest is found, 441 00:33:10,401 --> 00:33:13,281 Speaker 1: but not by police, by the most unlikely person you 442 00:33:13,321 --> 00:33:14,401 Speaker 1: would expect. 443 00:33:14,881 --> 00:33:19,121 Speaker 6: I'm Bear or Robert Cameron. Yeah, I'm a tattooist, and 444 00:33:21,201 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 6: him in the country and enjoying my dogs, and I 445 00:33:24,601 --> 00:33:28,761 Speaker 6: was in a bike club for twenty years. Somebody hid 446 00:33:28,841 --> 00:33:31,441 Speaker 6: them there for a reason. There was three of them 447 00:33:31,441 --> 00:33:35,881 Speaker 6: all up, and they were definitely hidden there for a reason. 448 00:33:36,641 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 6: The way the hair stood up on the back of 449 00:33:38,241 --> 00:33:41,321 Speaker 6: my neck, and that was confirmation that his story has 450 00:33:41,401 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 6: some substance. 451 00:33:42,401 --> 00:33:45,921 Speaker 1: Police have excavated two wells at Heart's former property, but 452 00:33:46,161 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: safety concerns have forced them to postpone the search. 453 00:33:49,601 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 6: If you've got a pedophile ring that's catering for the 454 00:33:54,361 --> 00:33:57,881 Speaker 6: high high end of society, you'd probably want to protect that. 455 00:34:00,641 --> 00:34:02,641 Speaker 7: I want to be able to lay my dad's tortured 456 00:34:02,721 --> 00:34:06,281 Speaker 7: soul to rest, and I want to be able to 457 00:34:06,281 --> 00:34:10,121 Speaker 7: look my mom in the faces that Mom, we're bringing 458 00:34:10,121 --> 00:34:10,841 Speaker 7: Sissy home. 459 00:34:49,241 --> 00:34:52,041 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story. 460 00:34:52,681 --> 00:34:55,561 Speaker 1: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what pod Shape 461 00:34:55,601 --> 00:34:58,721 Speaker 1: really cares about. 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