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Speaker 1: Time is twenty six to eight, and I'm thrilled to

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Speaker 1: have in the studio the CEO of the Sammy D Foundation,

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Speaker 1: Jeanine Jackson, who is here and you might have heard

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Speaker 1: on Breaking at eight on five Double a Breakfast a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago, the story with David and Will

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Speaker 1: about Sammy D, which has done excellent work over the

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Speaker 1: last I we'll find out exactly how long, but you know,

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Speaker 1: decade and a half, probably maybe even longer than that

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Speaker 1: now in schools promoting the message of ending youth violence

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Speaker 1: or finding a way to resolve a conflict without resorting

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Speaker 1: to violence. And they're running out of funding, so it's

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Speaker 1: crucial days and the excellent work they have done over

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Speaker 1: that length of time just can't be allowed to slip

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Speaker 1: away into nothing. Janine, thank you for coming in tonight.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Matthew pleasure. Now let's start with Sammy D. It all

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Speaker 1: started with the death of young Sam. Yeah, going back,

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Speaker 1: how long ago was that now.

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Speaker 2: Just over seventeen years and Sam was on his seventeen himself.

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Speaker 2: I think the thing for us is, as a parent,

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Speaker 2: I can't think of anything more horrific than getting that

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Speaker 2: phone call, and so for his parents to do something

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Speaker 2: incredible and start meet an foundation out of what is

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Speaker 2: just a complete tragedy. He is something that we should

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Speaker 2: all be really proud of. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, tell us about the program because you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that's a good place to start. So you go

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Speaker 1: in schools. You're talking to what year nine tense?

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Speaker 2: Well, we start as as young as year fart. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so in the year in late primary. So we go

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Speaker 2: in in late primary and we talk about bullying. So

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Speaker 2: where does violence start. It starts with language, it starts

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Speaker 2: with isolation. So we talked to those young kids about

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Speaker 2: what bullying is, how to recognize it, and how to

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Speaker 2: do emotional regulation, so how do you control yourself when

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Speaker 2: you're feeling angry or upset or frightened. And then we

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Speaker 2: almost like skill build as a year on year program.

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Speaker 2: So then we go in in years seven and eight

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Speaker 2: and we start talking to them about cyber and cyber safety,

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Speaker 2: which you know with the new phone bands. We'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that. And then we go in in year eight

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Speaker 2: and we'll near nine and ten and then start talking

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Speaker 2: to them about respectful relationships and then how to have

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Speaker 2: positive relationships and what does it look like on the

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Speaker 2: other side of that when they're not, and then when

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Speaker 2: we get to year eleven and twelve, we start adding

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Speaker 2: in drugs and alcohol. So we cover the whole violence spectrum,

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Speaker 2: everything from the social isolation through to that physical one punch.

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Speaker 2: The results in the change of life for everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: It must be resonating. Have you seen how do you

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Speaker 1: measure it? Is it? Assaults are down within that cohort

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Speaker 1: and beyond? Is that how you measure?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So we do measures, immediate measures with the kids,

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Speaker 2: but we also do some longitudinal studies as well. The

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Speaker 2: most incredible thing we've seen is that twelve to eighty

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Speaker 2: months on, seventy four percent of teachers have seen and

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Speaker 2: observed changes in behaviors in the classroom and outside of

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Speaker 2: the classroom, and close to eighty percent of those kids

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Speaker 2: believe that violence isn't the answer. Yeah, right, So they've

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Speaker 2: actually completely changed their attitude towards violence. It's not just

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Speaker 2: that it is you know, South Australia is bucking the

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Speaker 2: trend in terms of violent incidents apparently, and you'd have

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Speaker 2: to think that some of that is attributable what we're

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Speaker 2: doing in the schools. I can't say we're the only

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Speaker 2: only thing that does that. But we know and we've

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Speaker 2: got a lot of case studies now where we're if

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Speaker 2: we're in a school consistently year on year, the learning

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Speaker 2: outcomes improved for the kids in the classroom, so they

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Speaker 2: get better results. We have what the teachers will tell

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Speaker 2: you is a kinder and calmer school, and they'll see

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Speaker 2: the reduction in violence and violence behavior not just in

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Speaker 2: the volume but also the severity. So we've got really tangible,

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Speaker 2: measurable results.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, is it a program run just in public schools?

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Speaker 1: Do you go into private schools as well?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we do. And what has been really interesting is

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Speaker 2: over time private girls schools are becoming more of a problem.

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Speaker 1: Really, why is that?

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Speaker 2: If I was, it's a that's a very short question

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Speaker 2: to have a complex problem. But underlying that is the

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Speaker 2: volume of violence that we're consuming on a regular basis,

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Speaker 2: changing attitudes to what is normal in terms of violence.

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Speaker 2: So there's a study done this goes back to mid

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Speaker 2: nineteen nineties and there's no data post then that before

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Speaker 2: you're eighteen, you're consuming two hundred thousand images of violence. Really, now,

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Speaker 2: if you think about how many volume of images and

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Speaker 2: stuff you're seeing now as opposed to them, and the

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Speaker 2: data gets skewed. The more you look, the more you see,

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Speaker 2: and so kids are exposed to that much earlier.

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Speaker 1: But surely, okay, I don't doubt that, But then why

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Speaker 1: isn't the male incidence rising as quickly?

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Speaker 2: Well, the I think some of the girls are catching

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Speaker 2: up to where we are with boys. So what we're

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Speaker 2: seeing in some schools is that they're actually developing fight

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Speaker 2: clubs in the toilet in rather than going out and

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Speaker 2: playing football, normalizing having an MMA fight in the toilet.

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Speaker 2: So what their think is normal or their tolerance, sorry,

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Speaker 2: their tolerance for it has increased. So I'll give you

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Speaker 2: another example is I was in a school only a

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Speaker 2: few weeks ago delivering to and it was an all

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Speaker 2: boys school. We were talking about respect for relationships, and

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Speaker 2: we did a little piece where we talk amongst yourselves

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Speaker 2: in the last seven days, talk about what violent stuff

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Speaker 2: you've consumed, so YouTube or whatever it might be on

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Speaker 2: the TV to get you conscious about what you're actually

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Speaker 2: watching and consuming. And then I just did something off

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Speaker 2: the cuff and went around and said, let's just see

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Speaker 2: if you've seen something in the last twenty four or

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Speaker 2: forty eight hours. What was really shocking to me was

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Speaker 2: out of those thirty boys, twenty eight of them in

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Speaker 2: the last forty eight hours gave me an incident of

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Speaker 2: violence in real life. So when I say that, it

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Speaker 2: was there was one at the soccer match yes afternoon

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Speaker 2: as two kids fighting, there was one on the street.

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Speaker 2: It was literally violent incidents that they had either seen

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Speaker 2: been involved in, just in the last forty eight hours.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty scary. So okay, Now the people that

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Speaker 1: go out, Sammy deep So you've got employees that do that?

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Speaker 1: How many?

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Speaker 2: So well, we've just literally cut back all of our

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Speaker 2: employees due to funding. We have staff in schools every

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Speaker 2: day or every school day, I should say, and at

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Speaker 2: the moment that's only about three what used to be

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Speaker 2: we had closer ten out almost every day.

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Speaker 1: Wow. All right, so Pee, how long's it take? I

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Speaker 1: imagine what It's a health lesson and it's part of

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Speaker 1: that presumably where you go in for an hour or two.

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Speaker 2: So we go in for ninety minutes, yes, and we

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Speaker 2: run our programs in a ninety minute session and it's

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Speaker 2: highly interactive and all age appropriate. So there's and there's

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Speaker 2: other options that kids can go on with the leave.

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Speaker 1: How was the program developed? Because you know, we started

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Speaker 1: talking about Sammy d and the tragedy that got to

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Speaker 1: the foundation. How did you develop the program? You know,

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Speaker 1: because you might think what a great idea to do this,

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Speaker 1: and then I mean, I think that, but I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have a clue as to where to start with it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, so it's evolved. So it started with Nil, Sam's

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Speaker 2: dad going out and telling the story. Okay, and it's

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Speaker 2: still incredibly powerful when you listen to Neil tell Sam's

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Speaker 2: story and what happened. We still tell sam story so

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Speaker 2: that people understand that it's one moment. It doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be a long incident. It can just be one moment.

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Speaker 2: And then we've developed those programs over time with research.

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Speaker 2: Some of that's been with Flinda's University. We've worked with

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Speaker 2: them as well, and working with teachers, principles, bullying experts,

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Speaker 2: kids themselves. So there's been quite a lot of consultation

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Speaker 2: in terms of that evolution and growth in terms of

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Speaker 2: those programs.

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Speaker 1: In program development, I imagine from teachers and principles, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the has the best way to put this, the

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Speaker 1: red tape, the bureaucracy, they've got to put up with,

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Speaker 1: let alone, issues with kids, issues with parents, you name it.

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Speaker 1: Taking violence out of the equation as much as possible

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Speaker 1: must surely be you know, it would free up so

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Speaker 1: much that they're spending otherwise dealing with all this. And

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Speaker 1: case in point an alleged incident down at Taparu High

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Speaker 1: or whatever it's called now Ocean View College only a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, where a student was arrested after

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Speaker 1: an alleged assault and driven away from the school. I

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Speaker 1: mean police were called to the school. So just all

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Speaker 1: of that coming out, surely this is a boon for

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Speaker 1: the education department to realize. It might cost a little

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Speaker 1: bit of money to run, but long term it's got

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Speaker 1: to be an investment for the whole system in taking

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Speaker 1: away as much of that as possible.

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Speaker 2: Look, the thing for me, I think is probably the

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Speaker 2: most frustrating is we know if we were fully funded

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Speaker 2: for ten years, just fully funded for ten years, we

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Speaker 2: can actually end violence. So when I say end violence,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's gone. We then end up with not

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Speaker 2: just a good school cohort, but we end up with

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Speaker 2: good young adults. The role on impact of that isn't

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Speaker 2: just having teachers that can actually teach and be safe

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Speaker 2: in their own workplace. Is that we can actually end

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Speaker 2: up with really positive young adults. The flow on effect

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Speaker 2: has a ripple effect in terms of domestic violence, assaults

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Speaker 2: on I mean, assults on highly straight I mean, the

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Speaker 2: role on is quite substantial. It benefits everyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally ending violence Is that a big call.

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Speaker 2: It is a big call. But I think it's possible.

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Speaker 2: I genuinely believe it's possible. Is we have enough behavior

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Speaker 2: change campaigns that we can call on stuff where I

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Speaker 2: mean it's perfectly normal for kids now to wear sunscreen

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Speaker 2: and a hat, which seat belts. We have almost ended sids.

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Speaker 2: There are lots of different behavior change campaigns where we've

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Speaker 2: changed our attitude towards the sun, towards safety. There is

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Speaker 2: enough that we can actually do that. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 2: certainly not going to change the attitude of a psychopath,

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Speaker 2: but we absolutely can make a massive din in terms

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Speaker 2: of what's acceptable behavior and what's not.

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Speaker 1: You've got principles back in you, haven't you. I know St.

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Speaker 1: Michael's College principal, I don't know if that's the junior

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Speaker 1: school or the senior school, doesn't matter, but they're right

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Speaker 1: behind it. They've done it obviously for a few years,

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Speaker 1: been involved with Sammy d and seen the difference it makes.

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Speaker 1: So what is it that you're calling it apart from

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Speaker 1: government assistance? And this would be Squeally and Blair Boyer

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Speaker 1: as the Education Minister's court. But I imagine corporate sponsors you'd

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Speaker 1: welcome them on board.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. We really right now we probably need help more

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Speaker 2: than ever.

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Speaker 1: Is.

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Speaker 2: We would absolutely welcome any corporate sponsors or even mums

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Speaker 2: and dads to kind of help us out. I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, the time now for action and making our

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Speaker 2: kids safe. It should be something that everyone should be

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Speaker 2: concerned about. Is the healthier and nicer we make our

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Speaker 2: kids playgrounds and our kids' schooling, the lifelong implication even

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Speaker 2: from bullying, We now know that that has implications for

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Speaker 2: kids and kids' mental health. We just want to make

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Speaker 2: it safe.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything that a child has told you, you

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Speaker 1: know whatever a year, five year, ten, whatever it might be,

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Speaker 1: all the way through, that has really resonated with you,

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Speaker 1: stuck with you about, you know, the messaging that has

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Speaker 1: changed their way of life.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what one of the things that really

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Speaker 2: stuck with me was somebody who came back and spoke

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Speaker 2: to me who saw the presentation ten years ago. He

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Speaker 2: came back and said it's the one thing he remembered

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Speaker 2: from the whole of his school. Really Yeah, and he

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Speaker 2: and his mates literally changed the way they thought about

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Speaker 2: violence from there on in and changed the way they

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Speaker 2: perceived even play fighting is if you can make that

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Speaker 2: change in one or two people, you absolutely can make

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Speaker 2: a massive difference because it only takes one punch, and

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Speaker 2: we know that it only takes one and if and

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Speaker 2: you know, we get We had another young girl who

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Speaker 2: we came back for the second year, and she was

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Speaker 2: quite young, got up and apologized to the whole class,

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Speaker 2: which takes incredible courage. She was the bully, and after

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Speaker 2: the last presentation got up and apologized to everyone for

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Speaker 2: being so mean and realized now what the impact that

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Speaker 2: she'd had on other kids and had made the commitment

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Speaker 2: to be a nicer person to everyone. Yeah. I thought,

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Speaker 2: this is so so brave to do that publicly.

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Speaker 1: Well in a school setting as well, you know, with

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Speaker 1: all the stuff that goes on the politics of the

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Speaker 1: classroom and schoolmates and all of that. That's incredible. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So is that what you ask them to do to

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Speaker 1: make a commitment.

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Speaker 2: So we do do. At the end of each of

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Speaker 2: the sessions, we actually may ask them to make a

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Speaker 2: commitment and we give them all a wristband, which is

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Speaker 2: a visible sign of their commitment to be look out

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Speaker 2: for their mates. So what we asked them to do.

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Speaker 2: So if you see trouble coming, walk away, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's always tomorrow. It's a braver person that actually walks

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Speaker 2: away from some sort of heated incident.

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Speaker 1: That's is that a hard message to get across though,

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Speaker 1: because you know you've seen and the kids are, you're

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Speaker 1: walking away your gutlet's hear a coward.

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Speaker 2: It's actually quite interesting how many people go, you don't

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Speaker 2: want to be semi really, so we get we get

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Speaker 2: lots of feedback about people who've seen the program or

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Speaker 2: whatever that they've seen young young boys in the in

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Speaker 2: the run them all or wherever going. Come on, mate,

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Speaker 2: let's go. You don't want to be a semi and

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Speaker 2: it is it's actually a verb where kids are actually

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Speaker 2: using it to defuse and to walk away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Well that's the messaging working, isn't it. How

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Speaker 1: much do you need from government? I mean what it's

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Speaker 1: probably bottomless, so yes, but realistically.

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Speaker 2: What do you need today? What I need is two

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's in the scheme of government spending.

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Speaker 2: It's pocket change in terms of government spend. There is

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Speaker 2: and that actually allows us to change our structure to

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Speaker 2: be viable again. So we have done quite a lot

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Speaker 2: of work. So one of the things that we've had

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Speaker 2: to do, and rightly so, is that government had asked

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Speaker 2: us to prove the effectiveness of our programs, and so

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Speaker 2: we've invested in the research and the data. And I

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Speaker 2: think the thing that was really surprising to us is

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Speaker 2: that when your worked, like when your worked was how

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Speaker 2: effective the program was, Like the numbers are staggering. So

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Speaker 2: for us, we have the data, we have the programs,

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Speaker 2: we have the evidence. Now all we need is the funding.

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that is hard is from a government,

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Speaker 2: let's just talk about from a government perspective.

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Speaker 1: Is that.

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Speaker 2: They aren't the schools aren't funded enough to run all

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Speaker 2: of their wellbeing programs. So they're well being funding they

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Speaker 2: can employ staff or by beanbags, and so we have

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Speaker 2: to compete out of that dollar. And it hasn't gone

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Speaker 2: up in real terms in a.

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Speaker 1: Long time, and then you've got the Environment minister saying, well,

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Speaker 1: we've got to invest one and a half million dollars

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Speaker 1: at the moment to get rid of asbestos from sand

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Speaker 1: and you know he's talking about it being a huge amount.

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Speaker 1: Yet fifty million or whatever goes into live Uh huh.

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Speaker 2: I wish I had an nae thing to say about

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Speaker 2: that is we're talking about saving kids' lives literally, and

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Speaker 2: we know we are. So for us, it's not what

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Speaker 2: price do you put on your kid's life, but it's

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Speaker 2: even as a side consequence, the kids get better education outcomes,

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Speaker 2: just as a side consequence of actually having an environment

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Speaker 2: where they feel safe.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything else like this operating in the state

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Speaker 1: or the country.

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Speaker 2: There are other programs, So you have organizations like Alana, Madeline,

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Speaker 2: Dolly's Dream, So there are others like it. The things

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Speaker 2: that we have that probably are getting some of that

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Speaker 2: cut through, And the stuff that does get the cut

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Speaker 2: through is when you actually send people in to tell

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Speaker 2: real stories. Is the esoteric stuff where you should do

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Speaker 2: this because it's the right thing to do doesn't cut through.

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Speaker 2: Our program is the most talked about incursion that in

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Speaker 2: the schools. So more than sixty five percent of kids

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Speaker 2: will go home and talk to mom and dad, and

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Speaker 2: if anyone's had a teenager, they'll know how hard that

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Speaker 2: is to actually have a conversation what did you do

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Speaker 2: at school today? You're lucky to get a grunt, but

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Speaker 2: they absolutely know almost word for word the semi d presentation.

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Speaker 2: When we've been out, we hear it from parents all

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Speaker 2: of the time.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it sad? Really? But I suppose there's good that

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Speaker 1: comes from it, as in Sami d the Dolly Foundation

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Speaker 1: at Lana. They've all stemmed from tragedies. Absolutely, there wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be one probably that hasn't.

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Speaker 2: No, I'd like to say that wasn't the case, but

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Speaker 2: I think from a young person's point of view is

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Speaker 2: because it's real, it means it could happen to them

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Speaker 2: rather than it being And teachers will two they don't

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Speaker 2: want anything else on their schedule, like their schedules are

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Speaker 2: really tight, be asked to do too much already. Is

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Speaker 2: having someone outside come in and talk to them about

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Speaker 2: life rather than trying to get them to do their

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Speaker 2: maths or their English is a really important thing for

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Speaker 2: teachers to be able to have, So don't ask them

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Speaker 2: to do another downloadable. Yes, please don't. Is the frustration

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Speaker 2: for their perspective is, don't ask me to do another

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Speaker 2: course where I'm lecturing the kids on what they and

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Speaker 2: then want to turn around and try and teach them maths.

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Speaker 2: It just doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: It's also a little bit sad really that we need

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Speaker 1: a course a lesson on not being violent. I'm not

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Speaker 1: being mean. I mean, where did the world go where

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Speaker 1: this is the thing? It wasn't in my day? No,

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Speaker 1: but anyway today.

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Speaker 2: Is yeah, I haven't. I honestly, I haven't spent much

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Speaker 2: time reflecting on that. But if you certainly from my schooling,

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Speaker 2: my schooling wasn't that exciting. I'm not going to lie.

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Speaker 2: It was filled with bulling, violence stream my school career.

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Speaker 2: But it was stuff that we just had to suck up,

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Speaker 2: you know, the whole sticks and stones may break my bones,

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Speaker 2: the names don't ever hurt me, which is kind of

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Speaker 2: what we were taught as kids. It was just suck

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Speaker 2: it up. That's just part of what you need to do.

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Speaker 1: But that almost taught resilience, didn't.

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Speaker 2: The Yeah, there is there is a level of resilience

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Speaker 2: for it. But I think the things that we also

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Speaker 2: know now is that eventually that affects a kid's mental health,

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Speaker 2: and then when you get into the risky end of

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Speaker 2: that is that's where you end up with suicide and

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Speaker 2: suicide ideation completely agree. There's a point where resilience is

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Speaker 2: really important in terms of our kids, but we also

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Speaker 2: need to be really conscious that there are breaking points

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Speaker 2: for those kids, and we need to teach ways that

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Speaker 2: kids actually look out for each other and talk through conflict,

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Speaker 2: give them the skills to manage conflict.

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Speaker 1: Well, are you taking donations?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: I am not right now, I mean, but.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So if anyone absolutely is interested in giving, please

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Speaker 2: just head over to our website semi dfoundation dot org

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Speaker 2: dot au. Plenty of ways for people to give, whether

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Speaker 2: that's a one off gift or a regular gift. We

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Speaker 2: have a regular giving program called the Guardian Project for

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Speaker 2: people who want to be guardians for our kids. It's

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Speaker 2: quite easy. They just tell us how much they want

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Speaker 2: to give each month and they become part of that project.

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Speaker 1: Excellent and obviously corporate sponsors too, very welcome to hear

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Speaker 1: from them tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, please give me a call so anything that can

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Speaker 2: be done will be done.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and the government okay, you've had to submit. You said,

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Speaker 1: you know a proof of how it works. You're confident

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Speaker 1: of getting a good, hearing, good result out of that.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to say yes. I haven't seen them, seen

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Speaker 2: the dollars as of yet. I think there's a round

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Speaker 2: table that's just been announced yesterday because of the incidents

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Speaker 2: of violence from kids to teachers, and it's one of

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Speaker 2: the primary reasons for workers comp for violent incidents of

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Speaker 2: young primary kids goodness against teachers and principles. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: Principles released a report I think almost a year ago

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Speaker 2: now where they were calling on some action in terms

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Speaker 2: of violence against teachers and principles and it's from young

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Speaker 2: kids crazy.

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Speaker 1: All right, appreciate you coming in, Thank you and all

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Speaker 1: the best with it. Of course, Sammy D Foundation, you

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Speaker 1: can go to that website. CEO Janine Jackson my guest.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Janine, thank you so much,