1 00:00:01,250 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to 7am. Migration is 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: shaping up to be the next big battleground in federal politics, 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,940 Speaker 1: as Labor desperately tries to wrestle back control of the 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,900 Speaker 1: narrative from One Nation. But does this week's long-awaited plan 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,730 Speaker 1: leave the government stronger or weaker politically? And could going 6 00:00:22,810 --> 00:00:26,250 Speaker 1: harder on Pauline Hanson hold the key to tackling One Nation? 7 00:00:27,250 --> 00:00:29,770 Speaker 1: This week, the major parties gave it a try. as 8 00:00:29,810 --> 00:00:33,529 Speaker 1: some of Hansen's nasty comments came back to bite her. Today, 9 00:00:33,570 --> 00:00:37,650 Speaker 1: contributing editor at The New Daily, Amy Remekis, on immigration 10 00:00:37,710 --> 00:00:41,510 Speaker 1: politics and whether some things are off limits, even for 11 00:00:41,570 --> 00:00:55,380 Speaker 1: Pauline Hansen. It's Saturday, September 19. Amy, Labor finally delivered 12 00:00:55,420 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: its migration plan yesterday, on Thursday, six weeks after it 13 00:00:59,420 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: was originally scheduled. And in the same week, One Nation 14 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: delivered its migration policy. Do you think it'll be enough 15 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: to take some of the political pressure off around this 16 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:10,780 Speaker 1: topic for the government? 17 00:01:11,220 --> 00:01:14,580 Speaker 2: It's really difficult to answer because we're really in existential 18 00:01:14,660 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: areas now. We're still kind of looking for the actual 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: issue that we're trying to solve here. And it really 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,380 Speaker 2: is a political narrative. I mean, yes, of course there 21 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: is pressure on housing, but that is complicated because interest 22 00:01:33,740 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: rates are also one of the big reasons that we're 23 00:01:36,380 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: seeing pressure on rents and interest rates are being driven 24 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:45,470 Speaker 2: by a supply issue inflation problem that Australia is currently 25 00:01:45,530 --> 00:01:49,550 Speaker 2: dealing with. So there's nothing that you can say cutting 26 00:01:49,610 --> 00:01:53,750 Speaker 2: migration right now is going to solve this massive issue 27 00:01:53,990 --> 00:01:58,770 Speaker 2: in Australia alone. It really is a vibe issue. That's 28 00:01:59,130 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: the predominant thing the government is trying to address. It's 29 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: trying to catch at smoke, and it has been building 30 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: all year. I think it will now become a race 31 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,019 Speaker 2: to the bottom where you have the coalition saying, well, 32 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,179 Speaker 2: we'll cut even more, and then you'll have One Nation saying, well, 33 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,060 Speaker 2: why aren't you cutting as much as us? But none 34 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,100 Speaker 2: of that matters. The facts do not matter in this debate. 35 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,210 Speaker 2: It is all about how people react. And I think 36 00:02:24,410 --> 00:02:27,610 Speaker 2: anybody who has put any sort of toe into the 37 00:02:27,669 --> 00:02:31,070 Speaker 2: social media waters on this knows that because no matter 38 00:02:31,150 --> 00:02:35,430 Speaker 2: how many facts you reply to people with, they're just like, no, no, no, 39 00:02:35,710 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: we have a mass migration problem in Australia and we don't. 40 00:02:40,780 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: Do you think Labor needed to respond in this way 41 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,180 Speaker 1: or does its response just give more power to One Nation, 42 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,299 Speaker 1: which appear to be the ones setting the agenda right now? 43 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: From a purely political point of view, it's both because 44 00:02:56,780 --> 00:03:02,690 Speaker 2: the political climate became so volatile around this. A lot 45 00:03:02,730 --> 00:03:06,790 Speaker 2: of that due to media coverage where like every single masthead, 46 00:03:07,010 --> 00:03:12,530 Speaker 2: every single commercial broadcaster was dedicated to this in the mainstream. 47 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,420 Speaker 2: And that started from the beginning when we saw the 48 00:03:15,460 --> 00:03:19,380 Speaker 2: March for Australia, where we saw people saying, oh, we're 49 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:26,620 Speaker 2: protesting against high migration, and then people just started going, oh, well, look, yeah, sure, 50 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,900 Speaker 2: we know Nazis were involved in that march, but maybe 51 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:34,050 Speaker 2: they have a point about migration, which is, you know, 52 00:03:34,250 --> 00:03:38,910 Speaker 2: like crazy. It's absolutely crazy what we allowed to kind 53 00:03:38,930 --> 00:03:39,750 Speaker 2: of take hold. 54 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:44,690 Speaker 1: Reported straight up and down by commercial nightly news networks 55 00:03:45,410 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: that a rally against immigration, which had Nazis speaking at it, 56 00:03:50,070 --> 00:03:52,550 Speaker 1: In my view, if you have a rally that Nazis 57 00:03:52,570 --> 00:03:53,970 Speaker 1: speak at, that's a Nazi rally. 58 00:03:54,130 --> 00:03:56,850 Speaker 2: Yeah, whether or not you meant for the Nazis to come, 59 00:03:56,930 --> 00:03:59,420 Speaker 2: if you're at an event and Nazis turn up and 60 00:03:59,540 --> 00:04:03,260 Speaker 2: speak at your event, you're at a Nazi event. But 61 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:07,030 Speaker 2: we allowed that in the political and media classes to 62 00:04:07,190 --> 00:04:11,390 Speaker 2: dominate this debate where we stopped talking about Nazis and 63 00:04:11,980 --> 00:04:14,770 Speaker 2: and started talking about what they wanted us to talk about, 64 00:04:14,830 --> 00:04:19,010 Speaker 2: which was migration, which was importing the same culture wars 65 00:04:19,170 --> 00:04:22,250 Speaker 2: that we saw in the United States and more recently 66 00:04:22,529 --> 00:04:26,860 Speaker 2: in the UK and Europe. Just that level of intense 67 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,740 Speaker 2: focus on migration. But nobody could say what problem it 68 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: was that we were actually solving. 69 00:04:35,020 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the coalition. They've been talking about migration 70 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: numbers being too high. And they're directly tying migration to 71 00:04:42,540 --> 00:04:46,109 Speaker 1: housing shortages and the cost of housing. But we still 72 00:04:46,150 --> 00:04:50,250 Speaker 1: don't have a policy from them. Are they having an 73 00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: identity crisis now? They're not the toughest migration coppers in town? 74 00:04:54,770 --> 00:04:57,610 Speaker 2: Yeah, they are. And this has always been really complicated 75 00:04:57,650 --> 00:05:02,510 Speaker 2: politically for the coalition because the coalition as the party 76 00:05:02,589 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: that previously most represented neoliberalism in Australia was in support 77 00:05:08,300 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: of temporary migration. It has been the coalition that has 78 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:17,610 Speaker 2: created what we call this permanent temporary migration system. It's 79 00:05:17,650 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: the coalition that historically have signed free trade agreements that 80 00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:27,690 Speaker 2: include temporary workers. It's the coalition that has signed working 81 00:05:27,770 --> 00:05:31,450 Speaker 2: holiday agreements. One of the reasons why they have wanted 82 00:05:31,490 --> 00:05:35,370 Speaker 2: so much temporary migration is because it does help keep 83 00:05:35,450 --> 00:05:40,659 Speaker 2: domestic wages low. It does give business access to cheaper labor. 84 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: So the coalition doesn't want to upset the business community. 85 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: They don't want to upset the university sector. And again, 86 00:05:49,140 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: the coalition policy is to blame for why universities are 87 00:05:52,779 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 2: so reliant on international students as a revenue stream. But 88 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,170 Speaker 2: they do want to own the debate and show that 89 00:06:01,190 --> 00:06:03,590 Speaker 2: they're being tough on migration. But they don't know how 90 00:06:03,630 --> 00:06:06,609 Speaker 2: to do it because there are not that many levers 91 00:06:06,650 --> 00:06:08,990 Speaker 2: that they can pull. So what they're going to do 92 00:06:09,170 --> 00:06:12,090 Speaker 2: is they're going to blame migrants for housing, even though 93 00:06:12,110 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: it's not true. And we saw that in the recent 94 00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:17,820 Speaker 2: ABS figures that showed one of the main reasons we're 95 00:06:17,860 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: seeing more pressure on the rental market is because we 96 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,460 Speaker 2: don't want to live with as many people anymore as 97 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 2: we used to. There's now less Australians who are willing 98 00:06:26,740 --> 00:06:29,940 Speaker 2: to go into three or four person houses where we've 99 00:06:29,980 --> 00:06:33,650 Speaker 2: seen the number of per person dwellings drop. Big pressure 100 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: on the housing market for that. But instead of going, OK, 101 00:06:36,940 --> 00:06:39,780 Speaker 2: here's our housing policy. Here's what we're going to do 102 00:06:39,820 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 2: about migration. Here's how we're going to manage the economy. 103 00:06:43,380 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: They're just trying to link the two and say, oh, 104 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:47,820 Speaker 2: you know, keep this linked in your mind and we 105 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,790 Speaker 2: will fix that. But people have moved beyond that part 106 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,070 Speaker 2: of the debate. They're just angry now. And the coalition 107 00:06:54,170 --> 00:06:55,310 Speaker 2: is stoking that anger. 108 00:06:58,370 --> 00:07:01,730 Speaker 1: Still to come. is Pauline Hanson finally starting to face 109 00:07:01,770 --> 00:07:13,620 Speaker 1: the consequences for her words? Amy, One Nation had an 110 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 1: interesting strategy in dealing with the criticism around its migration policy, 111 00:07:18,140 --> 00:07:22,700 Speaker 1: dismissing economists who warned it would trigger a recession as irrelevant. 112 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: Are we at a time now where expert opinion, facts 113 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: and reality is becoming less valued? 114 00:07:29,210 --> 00:07:31,830 Speaker 2: Oh, we've been there for quite some time and you 115 00:07:31,850 --> 00:07:34,410 Speaker 2: can see that with the anti-vax movement and how that 116 00:07:34,430 --> 00:07:38,730 Speaker 2: has been feeding into far-right politics in Australia. You can 117 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:42,670 Speaker 2: see that with the push, you know, to ban abortion 118 00:07:42,770 --> 00:07:46,690 Speaker 2: where there's so much misinformation and, frankly, lies being spread 119 00:07:46,790 --> 00:07:49,950 Speaker 2: about that. So it makes sense that the next step 120 00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:52,500 Speaker 2: is just to say, oh, hey, like we don't need 121 00:07:52,540 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: to get any information on this. We're just going to 122 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,620 Speaker 2: do it and we're elected so that we can. I mean, 123 00:07:57,660 --> 00:08:02,770 Speaker 2: Barnaby Joyce... explained that they didn't need to get modelling done. 124 00:08:03,190 --> 00:08:05,490 Speaker 3: Have you modelled, have you put together figures on the 125 00:08:05,530 --> 00:08:09,210 Speaker 3: loss to people's retirement savings over time if they were 126 00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: to use this facility? 127 00:08:11,140 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: Well, once more, that's how long is a piece of string, Sarah. 128 00:08:13,820 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: I mean, tell me which person you're referring to. 129 00:08:16,180 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 3: Well, let me give you an example. 130 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,860 Speaker 2: And look, I'm not defending economists or modelling necessarily because 131 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,610 Speaker 2: you can usually get modelling to say whatever it is 132 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:26,510 Speaker 2: that you want to say it depending on what you're 133 00:08:26,610 --> 00:08:29,950 Speaker 2: inputting into it. But his excuse for why they had 134 00:08:30,010 --> 00:08:33,230 Speaker 2: not done any research or any modeling around that was 135 00:08:33,290 --> 00:08:34,709 Speaker 2: because he was not Jesus Christ. 136 00:08:35,270 --> 00:08:37,530 Speaker 3: Barnaby Joyce, if I may, obviously this is a policy 137 00:08:37,550 --> 00:08:38,980 Speaker 3: that your party has come up with. 138 00:08:39,030 --> 00:08:41,420 Speaker 1: So we would expect you as. 139 00:08:42,340 --> 00:08:45,860 Speaker 3: The Treasury spokesman for that party to be across. 140 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,180 Speaker 1: The Treasury spokesman, not Jesus Christ. 141 00:08:48,380 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 3: I mean, you have to actually give me the details. 142 00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:54,460 Speaker 2: And then when he was, you know, asked about like, again, like, 143 00:08:54,500 --> 00:08:57,140 Speaker 2: you know, why are you not paying any attention to 144 00:08:57,340 --> 00:08:59,460 Speaker 2: what these people are saying? He was like, well, they're 145 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,340 Speaker 2: not elected. I'm elected. So I'm not Jesus Christ, but 146 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: I am elected. So therefore, anything that I say, you know, 147 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,590 Speaker 2: is the fact, is the will of the people. And 148 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,330 Speaker 2: if it goes bad, well, that's what the people wanted 149 00:09:12,610 --> 00:09:15,670 Speaker 2: to happen. It's essentially what One Nation is saying right now. 150 00:09:16,150 --> 00:09:18,210 Speaker 4: Do you trust these economists, what they come out and say? 151 00:09:18,530 --> 00:09:19,210 Speaker 3: Because I don't. 152 00:09:19,510 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 4: I'm implementing the will of the people. 153 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,339 Speaker 2: And so it's really hard for any other political party 154 00:09:26,380 --> 00:09:29,140 Speaker 2: to try to pierce that because One Nation just keeps saying, well, 155 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: we don't care what the experts say. We're speaking for you. 156 00:09:32,179 --> 00:09:35,220 Speaker 2: You are the experts. And that's a really heady message. 157 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,350 Speaker 2: I don't think people will quite understand the impact of 158 00:09:42,380 --> 00:09:45,449 Speaker 2: those policies because until they're living it, which is what 159 00:09:45,470 --> 00:09:48,050 Speaker 2: we saw in the United States with Donald Trump. And 160 00:09:48,090 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: Pauline Hanson said something very similar to Donald Trump this week, 161 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,740 Speaker 2: where she said, look, there might be some pain in 162 00:09:54,780 --> 00:09:57,590 Speaker 2: the short term, but then everything will be fine, which 163 00:09:57,650 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: is exactly what Donald Trump said about you know, the 164 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 2: tariffs and the economic changes that he was making. They're 165 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:08,809 Speaker 2: borrowing from that MAGA playbook where you demonise the public service, 166 00:10:09,150 --> 00:10:14,309 Speaker 2: you demonise experts and you demonise anybody who speaks of 167 00:10:14,370 --> 00:10:18,390 Speaker 2: particular consequences for when those consequences are not ones that 168 00:10:18,429 --> 00:10:21,429 Speaker 2: you want and you just tell everybody that you're doing 169 00:10:21,510 --> 00:10:25,340 Speaker 2: what they want and that makes them the biggest experts. 170 00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: Well, in a rare sign of political consequences for what 171 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:31,900 Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson actually has to say, she wasn't able to 172 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,179 Speaker 1: dismiss this week the pretty awful comments that had resurfaced 173 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,110 Speaker 1: from a podcast she had done recently, firstly around Anthony 174 00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:41,090 Speaker 1: Albanese's mum. 175 00:10:41,110 --> 00:10:44,530 Speaker 4: Oh, my God. House Commission houses should not be there 176 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:46,750 Speaker 4: for people to live in them for 30, 40. And 177 00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:49,030 Speaker 4: he said his mother lived in the same one. She 178 00:10:49,070 --> 00:10:51,550 Speaker 4: was born in for 65 years. Sorry, that's not on 179 00:10:51,590 --> 00:10:54,270 Speaker 4: to me. It should be a limited time. You've been 180 00:10:54,309 --> 00:10:56,630 Speaker 4: given a hand up. Moving on to the next ones 181 00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:57,310 Speaker 4: coming through. 182 00:10:57,330 --> 00:11:00,390 Speaker 1: And secondly, around Indigenous Australians. 183 00:11:00,870 --> 00:11:02,830 Speaker 2: Supposedly 60,000 years. 184 00:11:03,470 --> 00:11:04,810 Speaker 3: They'd never invented the wheel. 185 00:11:04,830 --> 00:11:07,910 Speaker 2: A few, you know, rock paintings. Sorry. 186 00:11:07,929 --> 00:11:12,250 Speaker 4: They're the most primitive race on earth. They've achieved nothing. 187 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: Talk us through her response. 188 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,900 Speaker 2: So I found the whole thing interesting from a political 189 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,020 Speaker 2: point of view because these were old comments that have resurfaced. 190 00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 2: And the reason that they're resurfacing now is because Coalition 191 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,150 Speaker 2: MP Andrew Hastie has essentially given permission for the major 192 00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:36,410 Speaker 2: parties to go hard against Pauline Hanson, which they have 193 00:11:36,450 --> 00:11:39,890 Speaker 2: not been doing. Andrew Hastie came out and said, nope, 194 00:11:40,170 --> 00:11:42,030 Speaker 2: this is war and this is why. 195 00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:46,060 Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce are lying cowards. And I'll 196 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,060 Speaker 1: say it again, so there's no ambiguity, they are lying cowards. 197 00:11:49,460 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 2: And now the other players in this, you know, little 198 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,470 Speaker 2: space have gone, oh, maybe there is something to gain 199 00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:58,890 Speaker 2: to be pushed back against Pauline Hanson. And that gave 200 00:11:59,030 --> 00:12:03,290 Speaker 2: Anthony Albanese the opportunity to hold a press conference where 201 00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:06,410 Speaker 2: I suppose if you were one of his political media spinners, 202 00:12:06,860 --> 00:12:10,059 Speaker 2: you would have considered that an absolute perfect press conference 203 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: that because Anthony Albanese got emotional, he connected it to 204 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,300 Speaker 2: his mother and how you should never bring family into politics. 205 00:12:17,860 --> 00:12:22,020 Speaker 4: If Pauline Hanson wants to criticise me, then that's fine, 206 00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:25,699 Speaker 4: but my mother was way out of Pauline Hanson's league, 207 00:12:26,420 --> 00:12:27,580 Speaker 4: way out of it. 208 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: And then he was able to speak about his mother 209 00:12:30,370 --> 00:12:33,450 Speaker 2: in a place that obviously comes from the heart that 210 00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:37,150 Speaker 2: did engender a lot of sympathy for him. So then 211 00:12:37,170 --> 00:12:40,870 Speaker 2: when we get to the absolutely abhorrent and racist comments 212 00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:46,130 Speaker 2: that Pauline Hanson was making about Indigenous Australians, there was 213 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 2: already a foundation that Hanson says these things and then 214 00:12:50,260 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: refuses to take responsibility for it. She just got to 215 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 2: the point where it became so overwhelming that her usual, 216 00:12:58,140 --> 00:13:00,610 Speaker 2: I'm not going to apologise, I don't need to, they've 217 00:13:00,650 --> 00:13:02,710 Speaker 2: taken me out of context, wasn't good enough. 218 00:13:03,330 --> 00:13:04,270 Speaker 3: Use the word primitive. 219 00:13:04,530 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 4: Will you apologise for that? If I've offended people by 220 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,970 Speaker 4: using that, yes, I will apologise for that. But I 221 00:13:13,010 --> 00:13:15,730 Speaker 4: will not back away from what needs to be discussed. 222 00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: And that's very telling in this kind of climate where 223 00:13:19,220 --> 00:13:23,020 Speaker 2: she felt under enough pressure that she had to give 224 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,500 Speaker 2: a qualified apology because Pauline Hanson does not apologise. It's 225 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: part of her brand. 226 00:13:28,860 --> 00:13:30,660 Speaker 1: Is that a new line in the sand now? Because 227 00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:33,870 Speaker 1: like you said, even a half apology is rare for Hanson. 228 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,870 Speaker 1: Does that tell us that perhaps even she's recognised that 229 00:13:37,929 --> 00:13:39,849 Speaker 1: she's gone too far and that perhaps there is a 230 00:13:39,890 --> 00:13:43,070 Speaker 1: new political reality when it comes to holding Pauline Hanson 231 00:13:43,290 --> 00:13:45,309 Speaker 1: to account for what she says? 232 00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:47,830 Speaker 2: Look, I don't think she has realised that she has 233 00:13:47,890 --> 00:13:50,870 Speaker 2: anything to apologise for because Pauline Hanson has been saying 234 00:13:50,890 --> 00:13:53,819 Speaker 2: this stuff for 30 years and she doesn't care. What 235 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,700 Speaker 2: was interesting was that her strategists felt that she had to. 236 00:13:58,270 --> 00:14:00,630 Speaker 2: The last time we saw this was when Pauline Hanson 237 00:14:00,650 --> 00:14:03,290 Speaker 2: did her National Press Club speech, and then we saw 238 00:14:03,330 --> 00:14:06,910 Speaker 2: support for Hanson drop when people started seeing more of 239 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 2: what she's actually like. I don't think it's a line 240 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: in the sand. Pauline Hanson will continue to say abhorrent things. 241 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,460 Speaker 2: That is what Pauline Hanson does. It was a line 242 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,970 Speaker 2: in the sand for the major political parties, though, and 243 00:14:22,030 --> 00:14:24,940 Speaker 2: it was for the first time since I've been covering 244 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,590 Speaker 2: federal politics, that we saw four Indigenous senators from across 245 00:14:29,630 --> 00:14:33,970 Speaker 2: the political divide actually stand up in a united message 246 00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:37,870 Speaker 2: and say, this is abhorrent, this has gone too far. 247 00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:41,290 Speaker 2: And the way that Labor and the Coalition are viewing 248 00:14:41,330 --> 00:14:45,210 Speaker 2: this is that most of Hanson's support is what they're 249 00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: terming soft support. That means that they can win back 250 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: a lot of those voters before the next federal elections. 251 00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: The problem for them, though, is they've got the Victorian 252 00:14:55,980 --> 00:14:58,470 Speaker 2: election in November and then they have the New South 253 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:02,350 Speaker 2: Wales election in March. And they've left it so late 254 00:15:02,590 --> 00:15:07,290 Speaker 2: to actually start doing national pushback that those results will 255 00:15:07,330 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: probably give Hansen a pretty big push and lead in 256 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 2: into a very serious election year. And until they actually 257 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,810 Speaker 2: get their strategies embedded down Pauline Hanson's qualified apologies will 258 00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:25,270 Speaker 2: be forgotten because we'll be well into whatever next round 259 00:15:25,390 --> 00:15:28,729 Speaker 2: of culture war that they've sparked and people will not 260 00:15:28,810 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: remember what happened this week by the time that she's 261 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,260 Speaker 2: giving a qualified apology for some other abhorrent comment that 262 00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: she's said. 263 00:15:38,780 --> 00:15:41,060 Speaker 1: Well, this week in politics, Amy, has felt like 30 264 00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:44,260 Speaker 1: years by itself. Let's hope next week is a little 265 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:46,260 Speaker 1: bit shorter. Thank you for coming on the show and 266 00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:47,030 Speaker 1: speaking with us again. 267 00:15:47,650 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: Thank you. 268 00:16:03,870 --> 00:16:06,930 Speaker 1: 7am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's made 269 00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:12,310 Speaker 1: by Atticus Bastow, Chris Dengate, Crystal Keller, Renee Auckland, Ruby Jones, 270 00:16:12,750 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: Travis Evans, Zoltan Fecho Jr, Yeo Chung, and me, Daniel James. 271 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:21,370 Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan 272 00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:24,970 Speaker 1: of Envelope Audio. And if you'd like to support 7am 273 00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:28,190 Speaker 1: and bringing you the news independently without fear or favour, 274 00:16:28,590 --> 00:16:31,500 Speaker 1: please follow the show on your chosen podcast platform and 275 00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:36,500 Speaker 1: on our social media accounts on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and LinkedIn. 276 00:16:37,180 --> 00:16:45,810 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to 7am. Have a great weekend. Thank you.