1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gatigel 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. Hello, and welcome to the 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. Well, it's World War three again, 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: or maybe we've just avoided World War three again. Russia 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: and Ukraine this time makes a nice change from Israel 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: and Palestine. Plus what is going on with this roundtable? 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: Is it going to achieve big things? Is it going 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: to achieve anything? I'll give you the lowdown on what 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: is going to happen and what it was actually intended 10 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: to do. Plus, Albow goes even more astronomical in the 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: latest News poll. Why is he so suddenly popular? All 12 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: that and more Coming up first up this week is 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: of course, the biggest story on the planet, and that 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: is the meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, followed 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: by a meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Zelenski of Ukraine, 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: plus you know a whole bunch of other European leaders 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: that no one really knows or cares about. Anyway, Let's 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: start with Trump and Putin. They meet in Alaska on 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: the Red Carpet. They then have a meeting just face 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: to face, just one on one, just the two of 21 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: them in Cadillac one, the US presidential vehicle, also known 22 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: as the Beast. So round one. Who won? The answer 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: is laming Putin. Putin just pantsed Donald Trump. There is 24 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: absolutely no doubt about it. There is no amount of spin. 25 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Even some of Trump's most ardent supporters say they, you know, 26 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: they just threw their hands in the air. Putin just 27 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: walked him like a dog. So how did this happen? 28 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: And how do we know this happened? Well, the first 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: thing is Trump has been saying since way before he 30 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: was president, as part of his campaign, basically that he'd 31 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: ended the war in Ukraine in a day. Yes, he 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: actually said that. Obviously, it's been quite a few days 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: since he's become president and the war in Ukraine is 34 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: still going on. So for all his threats or promises 35 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: or tweets or whatever they're called, on truth, social Vladimir Putin, 36 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: who Trump seemed to think he had some kind of 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: affinity with, you know, the two tough guys, two strong men, 38 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: they kind of understand each other. Putin has just been 39 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: flipping Trump the bird. He's been flipping Trump the bird 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: with every ignored request for a meeting, every ignored request 41 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: or demand for a ceasefire. With every bomb he drops 42 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: in and around Kiev, he is just telling Donald Trump 43 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: to go jump. And this has caused Trump confusion, perhaps, 44 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: frustration perhaps, and he's got more mobiligion. He says, if 45 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: you don't do any of this, if you keep going 46 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: like this, we're going to do big sanctions. I would 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: see big, beautiful sanctions. I would see probably the greatest sanctions. 48 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: And eventually Putin agrees to this historic meeting. And it 49 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: is historic, it is absolutely huge, and that's kind of great. 50 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: Except a meeting is not an end in and of itself. 51 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: Just because you're meeting with someone doesn't mean you've actually 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: solved anything or fixed anything. And again, it's just like 53 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: a deal. Trump loves doing a deal, he loves talking 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: about deals. But a deal that doesn't actually get you 55 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: what you want, that doesn't get a positive outcome, that's 56 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: just a bad deal. So you can say, oh, we've 57 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: got a deal, we've got a deal. But if your 58 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: idea of a deal is just giving your opponent everything 59 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: they want, well it might be a deal, but it's 60 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: a pretty crappy deal. And that's basically what happened when 61 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,839 Speaker 1: Putin finally agreed to this meeting with Trump. They went 62 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: into the backseat of Cadillac one. This was against we're told, 63 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: the advice or wishes of Trump's aides, who of course 64 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: wanted to be sort of around him, being able to 65 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: sort of shield him from Putin's influence, being able to 66 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: sort of nudge him in certain directions if Trump sort 67 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: of wanders off course, as he has a tendency to do, 68 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: and basically to stop Putin from pouring honey in his 69 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: ear and frankly pissing in his back pocket. Sadly, they 70 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: weren't there. It was just Trump and Putin, you know, 71 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: the two strong men, the two tough guys. And Putin 72 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: must not forget he's an ex KGB spy master, He's 73 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: an x KGB intelligence officer. This guy is smart. He 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: has trained, He's spent his entire life trained at manipulating people, 75 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: and he's been manipulating Trump from afar ever since the 76 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: beginning of his second presidency. And he just did the 77 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: same thing again in Cadillac one, with no one around 78 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: Trump to protect him. So he flatters him a bit, 79 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: but says basically not agreeing to anything, not given an inch. 80 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: The only thing he actually says, strangely enough, is something 81 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: that Trump was even really asking for, where he sort 82 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: of said that he would. He acknowledged that it would 83 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: be inevitable that there would be some kind of Western 84 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: backed peacekeeping force or security force in Ukraine at the 85 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: end of any potential future peace deal. And that is 86 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: something that Trump himself had not committed to. That is 87 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: something that Trump himself didn't want the US to be 88 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: in any way involved in it. So it's kind of 89 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: in a weird way, it was Putin almost telling Trump 90 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 1: what it would have to look like when Trump hadn't 91 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: even thought of that himself. Was almost like Putin giving 92 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: ground on an area that Trump wasn't even seeking ground on. 93 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: That's how much he was flipping the bird to this guy. 94 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: But as for everything else, he says no. How much 95 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: does he say no? Putin not only did not agree 96 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: to a cease fire while these talks, you know, while 97 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: future peace talks were ongoing, Russia was actually bombing Ukraine. 98 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: According to the Ukrainian press, Russia was launching bomb attacks 99 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: while the two guys were talking, So they didn't even 100 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: suspend their missile strikes for the couple of hours that 101 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: Putin and Trump were in the backseat of Cadillac one 102 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: in Alaska. That's how much Putin was giving an fu 103 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: to Trump. Plus when they finish those talks and they 104 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: come out and they address people, Putin is the one 105 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: who speaks first. Despite the fact that Trump is the 106 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: most powerful man on the planet, despite the fact that 107 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: this summit was at his behest, that this summit was 108 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: in American territory, on American soil, Putin gets to come 109 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: up and announce first how it's all gone. And of 110 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: course what does he announce. He says that it was 111 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: an abject failure. He says that I'm not given a 112 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: damn thing. I'm not giving any of the concessions anything 113 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: that your president asked for. So it's Putin who gets 114 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: to get up and humiliate Trump on the world stage 115 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: by saying that he's rejecting all of Trump's wishes. So 116 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: Trump doesn't even get the chance to get up first 117 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: and put a positive spin on his own failure. Putin 118 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: gets to basically just again walk him like a dog 119 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: in front of the world's press. And then at the 120 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: end of it, Putin starts speaking English, which takes Trump 121 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: by surprise and says maybe next time you can come 122 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: to Moscow, we will do talk there. And Trump's like what, 123 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: And then Trump's got to kind of commit or not 124 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: commit on it. He goes, yeah, maybe maybe we could 125 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: do that. Maybe yeah, clearly flustered. So again, it's just embarrassing. 126 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: If Putin has just pants Trump in his own country, 127 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: imagine what he's going to do to Trump when Trump's 128 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: in Russia. So again, it is it's just an abject, disastrous, hopeless, 129 00:07:55,160 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: embarrassing failure, but also a success because in a weird way, 130 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: Trump's complete humiliation at the hands of Putin in Alaska 131 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: on Putin's part is kind of too smart by half, 132 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: because it's now pushed Trump and Trump. You know, he's 133 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: not stupid. He might not be the details guy, he 134 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: might not be particularly well versed in the nuances of 135 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 1: foreign policy and geopolitical strategic negotiations, but he's not smart. 136 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: He's got a kind of rat cunning about him. He 137 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: knows when he's been played, he knows when he's been embarrassed, 138 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: and he's very totchy about that. This is a guy 139 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: who likes to look like a winner all the time. 140 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: He's like the Charlie Sheen of international podits. He is 141 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: hashtag winning, and it must have been clear to him, 142 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: no matter how much he or his aides might want 143 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: to dress it up as, Oh, yeah, we made progress, 144 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: and I know we never thought we'd get a cease 145 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: fire and this is just the first step. Blah blah, 146 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: bah blah blah blah. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. This is 147 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: someone who's going around saying we're going to get you know, 148 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: one day, we're going to have peace between Russian and Ukraine. 149 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: As the guy was saying, yeah, I'll get a sea. 150 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: So I'll do a deal. No deal, not even a 151 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: bad deal, just Russia making demands on what it wanted 152 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: and not agreeing to anything that the US or the 153 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: West wanted. And clearly Trump would know that that is 154 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: a failure. Clearly Trump knows that he has just been 155 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: pantsed and that's embarrassing. And when Trump gets embarrassed, he 156 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: gets mad, and when Trump gets mad, he gets even 157 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: And so within forty eight hours, Trump has organized another meeting, 158 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: this time in the White House itself, with the Ukrainian President, 159 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: Vloodmi and Zelenski, plus another seven European leaders all on 160 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: Zelenski's side, who are all going with Zelenski to prevent 161 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: a repeat of what happened last time when Selensky wasn't 162 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: sufficient grateful and was a bit impertinent, and then of 163 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: course Trump and jade Vans lose their minds and boot 164 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: him out of the White House, very embarrassing for all concerned. 165 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: This time, they're not repeating that mistake either side. Zelenski 166 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: doesn't rock up trying to look like a tough guy 167 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: in his quasi military fatigues. He wears a suit like 168 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: he has been us too. And that is the first 169 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: sign that things are going well. That he's showing respect 170 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: to the over the office, the office of the president, 171 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: and he's just playing playing by the rules. He's playing nice. 172 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: You know, he's kissing a little bit of ass because 173 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: he needs to to get what he wants. And that's 174 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: what international diplomacy is all about. So so that's the 175 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: first good sign. Trump is much much nicer to him, 176 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: because suddenly he realizes that Putin is not his mate. 177 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: After all, Puton is not his friend, and Russia are 178 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: not the good guys in this and so suddenly Trump 179 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: is talking about he hasn't talked about before. In fact, 180 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: talking about stuff that he previously wanted nothing to do with, 181 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: like having a Western security force backed by the US 182 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: in a future Ukraine to protect it from Russia invasion. 183 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: Now that is as big as it gets, because that's 184 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: what started the whole war in the first place. Russia 185 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: invaded Ukraine because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, and that 186 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: means that if Ukraine's a member of NATO, it means 187 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: any attack on Ukraine is an attack on all of 188 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: the NATO member states, and that includes you guessed it, 189 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: a good old US of A. Now we know that 190 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: Trump is isolationist America first, wants nothing to do with 191 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: foreign conflicts, but when push comes to shav he actually acts. 192 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: He did it with Israel and Iran, and it looks 193 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: like he's going to do it with Ukraine too. And 194 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: this is not something that he was even countenancing until 195 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: Putin humiliated him. And so Putin's win in Alaska could 196 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: be the ultimate pyrrhic victory because Trump has been so 197 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: humiliated that it has made him angry, and this has 198 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: made him seek revenge. And again, these are the kind 199 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: of concepts that Trump really clearly understands. This is a 200 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: guy who does politics like WWE wrestling. This is a 201 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: guy who wants to He just wants to know what 202 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: the good guys or the bad guys, who the good 203 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: guys and the bad guys are. And once he's figured 204 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: that out, then he knows that good guys have to 205 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: win and the bad guys have to be punished, the 206 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: bad guys have to suffer, and he's finally got in 207 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: his head that Vladimir Putin is the bad guy. Now 208 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: to the other thrilling, exciting or inspiring, spine tingling news 209 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: of the week, and that is, of course, the Productivity 210 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: round Table. When you say with a bit of a 211 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: vocal fry, it really gets the old murder running, you 212 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: know what I mean, really warms my waters anyway, So 213 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: the federal government has launches Productivity around Table. I love 214 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: a round table. That's just the kind of boring, geeky 215 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: moderate centrist that I am. I like to get everybody together, 216 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: all the different parties, all the stakeholders, don't I love 217 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: the word stakeholders. I actually don't like the word stakeholders. 218 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: That's too much even for me. But you know, you 219 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: get business, the unions and the government together, you say, right, 220 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: what do we need to do to get the economy 221 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: moving so that everybody wins, so that workers are getting 222 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: paid more because the economy is booming, so there's more 223 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: money to splash around. Businesses are making more of a profit, 224 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: and of course there's more money circulating through the economy, 225 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: so everyone is just having a gay old time. Consumers 226 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: are better off because there's more competition, and prices are 227 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: lower because you're producing things more efficiently. YadA YadA, yadaya yah. 228 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: And this was done way way way back in the 229 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: first years of the Hawk keeping government with a little 230 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: thing that you millennials wouldn't remember, but it's called the Accord. 231 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: And this was just again for people of the sensible 232 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: center of politics, this is something to just you know, 233 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: you get, you almost get, you know, you almost get 234 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: a bit aroused by the Accord. So Bob Hawk and 235 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: Paul Keating the government, they sit down with businesses and 236 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: the ACTU which was under a very wise man called 237 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: Bill Kelty at the time. And the ACTU was not 238 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: run by the left of the Labor Party but was 239 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: run by the right, and that's very very important in 240 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: all of this. And they sat down. They had raging inflation, right, 241 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: just like you know it might sound a little bit familiar, 242 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: just like we recently had. And they said, right, we've 243 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: got to get inflation under control. And if unions keep 244 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: pushing for bigger and bigger wage rises, that is only 245 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: going to fuel inflation. But where the party of the unions, 246 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: where the Labor Party. We support workers pay rises. That's 247 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: why the Labor Party was formed, that's why we came 248 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: into being, and it's what we're elected to do. So 249 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: how does a labor government say, I, actually, no, we're 250 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: not in favor of workers getting pay rises. Well, that's 251 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: that's what they did. They sit down with the union 252 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: movements say, look, if you refrain from too big a 253 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: push for increased wages, if you would just show some 254 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: wage restraint and just limit your members expectators say, look, 255 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: we're not going to go for those wage rises right 256 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: now while inflation is running hot. We will give a 257 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: whole lot of other things to you that aren't inflationary 258 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: that will make up for that. And business you win 259 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: because your payroll isn't increasing, which means that you don't 260 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: have to put up prices because your costs, your labor 261 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: costs aren't going through the roof. And that is how 262 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: we are going to beat inflation. That's how we're going 263 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: to tame the inflation dragon. So I think Peter Costello 264 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: once called it. And it worked. Everyone sat down because 265 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: the union movement was on board, because Bill Kelty understood 266 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: economics and understood that workers would be worse off in 267 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: the long term if they tried to pursue these sort 268 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: of short term gains, and that they would be much 269 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: better off in the long term if they just absorbed 270 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: higher costs and lower wages just for the short term. 271 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: He understood that and it saved the Australian economy. It transformed, 272 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: along with the other reforms that Hawk and Ketton did, 273 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: completely transformed the Australian economy. It would have been a 274 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: banana republic if it had to kept going the way 275 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: it was now. Compare that situation to the one we 276 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: have now where we've got this big productivity some at 277 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: this big productivity round table. It's basically an accord by 278 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: any other name, or if there's an actual agreement, it 279 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: will be in accord by any other name. And you've 280 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: got the government saying that productivity lack of productivity is 281 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: the biggest handbrake on the economy. Is their number one 282 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: priority in their second term. And you've got the ACTU 283 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: rocking up and say, oh, actually we want a four 284 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: day week. Actually we don't want to go back to 285 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: the office anymore. And if you're going to make us 286 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: go back to the office, we need six months notice. 287 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: That's what the Australian Services You actually said that people 288 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: who are being asked to return to the office needs 289 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: six months notice, six months to get back to the 290 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: other That is a hell of a commute like that 291 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: is a that's a long time in traffic on the 292 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: m four six months they say they would need. So 293 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: again you've got a union movement, this time run by 294 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: the left that is just saying no, we just want 295 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: whatever we can get. We just want whatever we can 296 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: call out. And I'm all for I'm very pro union, 297 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: particularly the sensible ones on the right who understand how 298 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: the economy works and what is in the long term 299 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: best interest of workers. But honestly, the government is looking 300 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: at the ac tou labor government saying Jesus with friends 301 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: like you, who needs enemies. They're trying to get business 302 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: on board, trying to drive up efficiency, trying to drive 303 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: productivity because we know that economic growth isn't where it 304 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: should be, and if you can get that growth unlocked, 305 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: then wages go up because there's more money to go 306 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: around and businesses can afford to pay workers more. And 307 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: you've got the AC to you like a bunch of 308 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: left is just saying, oh, no, there's a big pot 309 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: of money there, we want to take it. They propose 310 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: they oh, we want to put an extra tax on 311 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: businesses and extra levy on businesses for us to pay 312 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: us to train apprentices. I mean again, you've got a 313 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: whole roundtable, whole summit that is set up to try 314 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: to cut costs of businesses so that everything can become 315 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: cheaper because we're just coming out of an inflation crisis 316 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: and prices have gone through the absolute roof and you've 317 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: got a union movement trying to work less and make 318 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: businesses pay more. It's just bonker stuff anyway. So what 319 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: is actually going to come out of the productivity round table? Well, 320 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers kind of says everything. We want everything on 321 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: the table, the round table, and you know, nothing is 322 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: off the table the round table. And you know, if 323 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: we do, you know, we could do tax reform and 324 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: we could do you know, big structural economic reform and 325 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: then sort of elbow. God love him, the cautious, sensible 326 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: centrist that he is, comes out says, ah, I'm not 327 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: sure if we're going to do tax reform. That sounds 328 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: a little bit like tax hikes, and I don't think 329 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: that sounds very good at all. That doesn't really speak 330 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: to me. And again all the other sort of big stuff. 331 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: He says, Oh yeah, well, if we do that, we 332 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: take it to the election. Obviously, let's not forget we 333 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: just had an election, Like next election is not due 334 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: for twenty twenty eight. So what is the point of 335 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: this roundtable at all? Well, we have a saying in 336 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: the media or I certainly do. All good ideas are 337 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: the editors. So anything good that the paper does, anything 338 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: good that you do for the paper, if it works, 339 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: it's the editor's idea. If it doesn't work, it was 340 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: your idea. And that is basically what this roundtable is. 341 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: For anything good that comes out of the roundtable, the 342 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: government will do. If it's a winner, if it's popular, 343 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: if it saves it money, if everyone likes it, the 344 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: government does it. And the government says, well, this is 345 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: our idea, this is what you know we were going 346 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: to do all along. And people say, well, hang on, 347 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: this wasn't your idea. This was the roundtable's idea. Ah, 348 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: but it was our idea to have the roundtable. And 349 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: then anything that the roundtable throws up that is unpopular, 350 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: even if it's entirely necessary, even if it's sensible, even 351 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: if it adds up, but of you know, you know, 352 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: tough medicine, anything the government doesn't want to do it, 353 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: and say, oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's just you know, 354 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: that's just the roundtable talking. You know, that's not us. 355 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: We just we just facilitated the process so that people 356 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 1: can say whatever they want, but that's not our position. 357 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: That's not nothing that we're going to do. And so 358 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: it's a great way of doing what they call in politics, 359 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: running it up the flagpole and seeing who salutes so. 360 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: And this is something that Albo does all the time, 361 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: and you know it often gives people ulcers. But he'll 362 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: let an idea sort of float in the air, you know, 363 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: float in the ether, you know, let the media talk 364 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: about a bit, let the public kind of digest it, 365 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: and if people like it, he'll say, yes, that's what 366 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: we're doing. If he doesn't. He says, oh, no, that 367 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: was never our policy. That was I don't know where 368 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: you got that from. That's absolutely what Treasury commissioned, cracking 369 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: down on negative gearing. Oh I don't know anything about that. No, 370 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: I don't know where that came from. No, No, we're 371 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: absolutely not doing that, especially after I saw that headline 372 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: in the Australian. So this is something that does anyway, 373 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: and it's very much part of Albow style because he 374 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: is cautious. So he sort of dips his toe in 375 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: the water and sees what the temperature is and then 376 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: if it's too hot, he's not gonna he's not going 377 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: to go swimming. And the beauty of the round tablet 378 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: is you can do all that, but it's not the 379 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: government doing it. It's not you doing it. It's not 380 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: even the government sort of running things up the flagpole. 381 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: So instead of people say, oh, but the government, you know, 382 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: commission this study or commission Treasury to crunch these numbers, 383 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: or you know, whispers from within cabinet that this is 384 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: what they're considering, or blah blah blah, you don't even 385 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: have to have any of that. You've got all of 386 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: that risk, all of that all of that speculation is 387 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: all just lumped in the middle of that round table, 388 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: and whatever they come up with that works, that people 389 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: like the government takes the credit for and anything they 390 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: don't come up with was never the government's problem, never 391 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: the government's idea in the first place. So that is 392 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: what the round table is there for. It's there to 393 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, dare I say it, take 394 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: the edge off? And is all this stuff working well? 395 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: According to news poll certainly is Albo and the Labor 396 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: government are just stratospherically popular right now. Albow is in 397 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: positive territory as his approval rating has gone up for 398 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: the first time into positive territory for the first time 399 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: since before the Voice campaign, which I'm trying to wipe 400 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: out of my memory, and even just saying it has 401 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: triggered some short term PTSD. And not only that, Labor 402 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: is up fifty six forty four two party preferred now. 403 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,239 Speaker 1: To give you an idea of how big that is, 404 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: Labor just won the last election with a bit over 405 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: fifty five present of the two party preferred vote and 406 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: that gave it the biggest landslide win in Australian political history. 407 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: And it's now up even more so. What is going on? Well, 408 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: one thing that's going on is that the Liberal Party 409 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: is a complete and utter basket case. There basically is 410 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: no opposition, so you know, if you're asking, you know, 411 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: who are you going to vote for? The Labor Party 412 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: or there there is no blur. I mean, for a 413 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: while looked like there wasn't even going to be a coalition. 414 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: We don't even know what the Liberal Party's energy policy 415 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: is and they're saying, oh, it might take a year, 416 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: so enjoy that. And the leader of Liberal Party probably 417 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: won't even been a leader by the time the next 418 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: election rolls around, and if she is, it would just 419 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: be so that she can go out there and lose 420 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: it because no one else wants to because it's a 421 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: foregone conclusion that the Liberal Party or the coalition will 422 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: lose the next election. So they are just a complete 423 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: and utter basket case. But it's not just the Libs 424 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: completely self combusting. The government's actually been doing a pretty 425 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: good job. Elbow has been sort of threading the needle 426 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: pretty well. And again he does this not by doing 427 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: any grand kind of statements or huge radical policies or 428 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: huge radical reforms or whatever. He does it just by 429 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: it sort of slowly but surely, just you know, keeping 430 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: the keeping the thing running. And the one big thing 431 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: that he did. And this is on Sky I was 432 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: on Sky News last week on Paul Murray Live on Thursday, 433 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: the final show of the week and they do winners 434 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 1: and losers of the week, and this is the week 435 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: that that Anthony Albanezi said that the Australia would recognize 436 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: Palestine as a state. And I knew that everyone all 437 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: because ever says, well, the big winner of the week 438 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: is obviously Hamas because their terrorist actions of October seventh 439 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: have now been rewarded with Australia and other Western nations 440 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: formally recognizing Palestine as a nation. And there's there's plenty 441 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: of truth in that. There's plenty of truth. It's not 442 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: the whole story, but that's a perfectly valid point. And 443 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: in part just to kind of gee everybody up, I said, well, actually, no, 444 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: the winner of the week is Albow because the decision 445 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: that he made and the reaction to it was pretty 446 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 1: rough and he certainly got a good kicking from certain sections. 447 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 1: And of course all the pro Palestine crowd are saying, 448 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: oh no, but you didn't do sanctions, though it doesn't 449 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: go far enough. We were naturally about recognizing Palestinian Stane 450 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: who we did one more sanctions. But anyway, so it 451 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: looked like he was in all sorts. But I just 452 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: get the feeling. And it's a good rule of thumb. 453 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: When two extremes are both ganging up on you and 454 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: hate you, it is a very strong chance that you've 455 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: got it right. And of course that Thursday was when 456 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: they started doing the rounds for news Poll. That's when 457 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: they start polling on the Thursday, and they go through 458 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: the weekend and they get the results on the Sunday, 459 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: and there you have it albow up to a labor 460 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: up to record levels, and you think, oh, that's got 461 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: to be it's got to be an error. You know, 462 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: it's got to be the margin eer You know they 463 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: can't be the numbers must be wrong. So well, you 464 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: might be right, You might be right. There is a 465 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: bit of a margin of era newspol about two or 466 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: three percent FYI. A resolve pol in the Fairfax papers 467 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: or the nine papers as they are now came out 468 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: the same day Labor fifty nine percent. So if anything, 469 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: News Poll's estimate of fifty six percent two partly preferred 470 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: stratispheric bigger than the biggest ever election result in Australian history, 471 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: might have been a bit conservative. Well, my guest this 472 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: week is someone I've been wanting to get on the 473 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: Real Story for absolute youngs. He is the Journal's journey 474 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: is incredibly insightful and intelligent analyst. He's an incredible news breaker. 475 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: He's won every award under the sun. He is the 476 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: Australian's chief international correspondent. I'm very pleased to say he 477 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: joins me now, Cameron Stewart. Welcome the Real Story. How 478 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: are you? 479 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 2: Thanks, Jer That's very nice if you love the introduction though, 480 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: I'm great. Thanks. 481 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: It is absolutely true, not a word of a lie. 482 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: You can fact check it all. And I loved a 483 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: piece that you wrote this week about the negotiations between 484 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Vlamir Putin and now of course Vlamir Zelenski, 485 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: the Ukrainian president, and the European leaders that accompanied him 486 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: to the White House. And when you have a lot 487 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: of people who are you know, real polemicists about this 488 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: issue and other issues, you are one of the very 489 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: few who has that ability to just apply an incredible 490 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: clarity to the situation and to lay out a sort 491 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: of a map of where everything is at. And so 492 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: I thought I'd just begin by asking you where is 493 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: everything at? How far along are we? And has any 494 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: real substantive progress been made in finally getting an end 495 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: to the war. 496 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: Well, there's been so much smoke and mirrors here. There 497 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: really has been so much theater. We had the incredible 498 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: hydrama of Trump meeting Putin on the Red carpet and Alaska. 499 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the most extraord We haven't 500 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: seen a scene like that in international relations since Trump 501 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: met with Kim Jong un, remember back in Asia years ago. 502 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 2: There's an extraordinary scene. And yet, of course Putin gave 503 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: almost nothing to Trump at that actual summit. And then 504 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: literally just forty eight hours later or so, we see 505 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 2: Trump in Washington hosting Vladimir Zelenski, Ukraine's leader, as well 506 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: as seven European leaders, and they did make a little 507 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: bit of progress. And so one day we go backwards 508 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: in the negotiations with Ukraine to end the war. Next 509 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: day we go forwards a bit. And the real question here, Joe, 510 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 2: is exactly what it all means. 511 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: That's right? And I think I mean there's always, as 512 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: you say, there's always a danger of overthinking what Trump's 513 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: strategy is. It often appears like he's just sort of 514 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: going from one position to the next and sort of 515 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: making up as he goes along. Sometimes that can actually 516 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: have real benefits. I think his decision making on Iran 517 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: was actually exactly what the situation needed, a circuit breaker 518 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: and a show of sudden decisive force with this, I wonder. 519 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: I mean, my sense has been that it was so 520 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: clear to everybody that Trump had been played by Putin 521 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: that that, you know, however much his aides might you know, 522 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: sort of shield him from such criticism that would have 523 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: had to have reached him. And He's then kind of 524 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: pivoted and said, you know what, maybe this guy isn't 525 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: the sort of ally in this that I thought he 526 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: could be. Maybe we're not so alike. I'm now going 527 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: to go further to Zelenski's corner and make concessions again 528 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: that he hadn't made before, like, you know, saying that 529 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: there could be Western or potentially even US security forces 530 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: in Ukraine as part of a future peace deal. And 531 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: so Trump's kind of failure on that red carpet has 532 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: actually kind of pushed him for that into Zelenski's corner. 533 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: Do you think that is a fair assessment. 534 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: Look, that's right. I think what we had when Trump 535 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 2: came into office, he really appeased Putin to the point 536 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 2: of a nausea as far as the European leaders were concerned. 537 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: That reached the zenith of course Joe in February when 538 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: he effectively abused Lensky in the Oval office. And the 539 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 2: reason why Trump was doing it wasn't all madness as 540 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: people were saying. I think he was trying to flatter 541 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: Putin to the negotiating table. That's what he was trying 542 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 2: to do. That was his aim. And Trump always thinks, 543 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: or perhaps imagines, he has this magical relationship with whereas 544 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: he can tell him to do anything, you know, which, 545 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 2: of course Putin has strung along many of you as 546 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 2: president in his time. And so Trump just gradually, though, 547 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: became grumpier and grumpier as it became obvious that Putin 548 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 2: really wasn't looking to negotiate a quick piece. In fact, 549 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: Putin accelerated his bombing of Ukraine as low level talks 550 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: were going on. So Trump got very upset. Then, of 551 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: course Trump puts on this deadline where he says, okay 552 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 2: to Putin, if you're not going to be serious about 553 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 2: a ceasefire, I'm going to put all these sanctions onto 554 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 2: Russia and really make you pay. And that very week 555 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 2: of the deadline, Putin comes up and says, hey, let's 556 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 2: have a summit in Alaska. And at that summit, Putin 557 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 2: gives nothing. So it's a very valid thought process to 558 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 2: believe that for Trump to finally think, oh my god, 559 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: I've been strung along the whole time. Now, the rest 560 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: of Europe thought that was the case a long time ago. 561 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 2: But so that's where we're at. All of a sudden. 562 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 2: Then in Washington this week, we have a complete change 563 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: of tone and flavor. We have Trump being really nice 564 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 2: to Zelenski, and Zelenski being really nice to Trump and 565 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: wearing a suit, even wears a black suit and not 566 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 2: his military attire, you know. And so you've got that, 567 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: You've got the seven European leaders standing next to Zelenski, 568 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 2: and so Trump is finally being nice and giving some 569 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: help and concessions to Ukraine, which he hadn't done before. 570 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 2: So I think that shows he was a bit pissed 571 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: off and disappointed with Putin, and that's where it's at 572 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: at the moment. 573 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm always reminded, especially under Trump, of Winston Churchill's great 574 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: quote during World War Two, which is the Americans will 575 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: always do the right thing after they've tried everything else. 576 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: And I feel like that's that's kind of the way 577 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: with Trump as well, Like he's kind of is out there, 578 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: is bombastick. He takes crazy positions, like he seemed to 579 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: be going down this rabbit hole that actually Russia was 580 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,719 Speaker 1: in the on the right side of history by invading 581 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: Ukraine all along. Blah blah blahlah blah. I never quite 582 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: said it, but we all know what he you know, 583 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: that's sort of online pay per trail that he was chasing. 584 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: But eventually he comes around sooner or later reality, you know, 585 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: like water finds a course, and Trump does now seem 586 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: to be where he should be, or where he should 587 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: have been all along. 588 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: That's right, And in fact, you're saying things now, Joe, 589 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: that you know he probably should have said months ago. 590 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: Which is the crucial thing we've found in the last 591 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: forty eight hours is that Trump has now said that 592 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 2: he was a support the US will support security guarantees 593 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: for Ukraine. Now, the way in which he does that 594 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: is still open to question. The Wall Street JOURNALI is 595 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 2: saying today that he means air power and not troops 596 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: on the ground. So it's going to be a coordinating 597 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: and an ancillary role if you like. It won't be 598 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: a primary role. However, that is a massive thing because 599 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 2: the moment you have America's imprimata for the defense of Ukraine, 600 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 2: you have a very good deterrent for the first time, 601 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,959 Speaker 2: and that is a massive change. Trump refused to even 602 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 2: countenance the concept of this just a month ago. So 603 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: I think this is a very big moment, and this 604 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 2: is one which will make Putin shift uncomfortably in his 605 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 2: seat because he knows that this is the real deal. 606 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: Whereas if he has a piece deal now and that 607 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 2: sort of security guarantee is given to Ukraine, you cannot 608 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 2: imagine being game enough to invade again. 609 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. So I guess the million dollar question 610 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: now is where is that security force going to be 611 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: in the country, Where is the new border going to 612 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: be there? Obviously, Russia has an expectation of keeping all 613 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: the territory it currently occupies and then and then some, 614 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: and is making a claim for even further parts of 615 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: the Dombas region, you would have to think that. You know, 616 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: there seems to be a sense that Ukraine and the 617 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 1: Western Powers would accept a border sort of somewhere along 618 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: the lines of where the front line is now, but 619 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: any more territory seeded to Russia would be a red 620 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: line would be no go. Do you think that's sort 621 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: of where it's sort of headed to and is that 622 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: a win or something that both parties can live with? 623 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think it's there's a bit of crazy 624 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 2: on both sides here, Joe. I mean there's amongst the 625 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 2: complete foreign policy hawks, there's like, oh no, don't ever 626 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 2: seed any land to Russia because you know, that's rewarding 627 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 2: Vladimir for his invasion, which is absolutely true, but it's 628 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 2: totally unrealistic. I mean, Ukraine has not got the power 629 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: and the strength to take over the force, the area, 630 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 2: the twenty five percent of Ukraine that Russia currently controls. 631 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 2: On the other side, Putin's being ridiculous too. He wants 632 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 2: to get all of the eastern province called Dombas under 633 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 2: the Russian control, Yet the Ukrainians actually still controlled twenty 634 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 2: five percent of that territory and so basically, you know, 635 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: you've got a situation where neither of those positions are realistic. 636 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 2: So I think what we're going to do when the 637 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 2: dust finally settles, We're actually going to have a situation 638 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: where the border is roughly, well not roughly, perhaps even 639 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 2: exactly divided upon the current front line, in which case 640 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 2: Russia keeps everything it's got, Ukraine keeps everything it's got, 641 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 2: Ukraine gets security guarantees. I think we're going to have 642 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: a lot of fumbling and bumbling to get to that point, 643 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 2: but I'm sure if you and I talk in six 644 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 2: months or a year's time, that's going to be the reality. 645 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love that. And incredibly, that could actually 646 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: be seen as a win from both sides, because obviously 647 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: all of this started with Ukraine's attempts to join NATO. 648 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: That won't happen, but it will become part of a 649 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: sort of NATO esque security pact, won't it. So an 650 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: attack on Ukraine would be seen as attack on the 651 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: Western Powers. That the signature is to the security agreement, 652 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: so it kind of gets what it wants, and then 653 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 1: Russia can say yes, and we've got all this territory 654 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: of Russian speaking or ethically Russian or whatever. I don't 655 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: want to go down that rabbit hole either, but we 656 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: get this bit of territory, and so it's worth it, 657 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: and we've one and then maybe the dust settles and 658 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: we can all go home and get some rest. Yeah. 659 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 2: Look, the key is to get Putin on side here. 660 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 2: I mean, it's sort very well to talk about these 661 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 2: security guarantees. Here's to accept those guarantees as part of 662 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 2: the peace process. So you're right, they're going to be 663 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 2: very careful not to make it look too provocative. Clearly 664 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 2: NATO membership is out of it's just not going to 665 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 2: be in consideration, because that's the reason, in part why 666 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: he invaded Ukraine. So security guarantees for Putin must look 667 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 2: non threatening. That's a key. He wants to keep the 668 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: land that he's got already, and I think so you've 669 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 2: got to make it palatable to the Russian leader. And 670 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 2: of course there's no guarantee you that he will accept this. 671 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 2: I'm in at the moment. This week we've had a 672 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 2: situation where Putiner's remarkably agreed to a meeting with Zelenski. Now, 673 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 2: whether he turns up to that meeting and remains to 674 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 2: be seen because he hates his guts, so we just 675 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 2: don't really know whether that's going to actually happen. But 676 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 2: you know, it's still a long way to go before 677 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 2: that sort of peace steal is concluded, but that's certainly 678 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 2: going to be the talking points of this meeting. 679 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: Fantastic. Well, look came Stewart. Thank you so much for 680 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: joining us. We like to think that we prevent World 681 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: War three every week on this podcast, and you have 682 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 1: certainly done that this week. So thanks very much, Vade. 683 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: It's bit of pleasure. Thanks Jo pleasure, and that is 684 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: all we have time for this week. Thanks so much 685 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 1: for your company. We'll do it all again next week. 686 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: Until then, you can drop us a line at the 687 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: Real Story at novapodcast dot com dot au. You can 688 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: slide into my DMS on the IG is that what 689 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: they call it the IgG the gram at Joe Underscore 690 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,919 Speaker 1: Hilde around. Always loved getting messages. Thank you very much, 691 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: try to reply to all of them. Sorry, if I 692 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: havn't give us a rating, I don't know if it 693 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: goes higher than five stars, but just try it and 694 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: see what happens. And of course you can read me 695 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: in all the news Corp bar masked heads every Monday 696 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: and Saturday. And if you still can't get enough of 697 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: me after all that, I'll be back next week. Cheers, guys,