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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm christinaming it.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday October nine, twenty twenty five. Three justices of

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Speaker 1: the New South Wales Supreme Court will today hand down

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Speaker 1: their decision on a bid by a pro Palestine group

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Speaker 1: to demonstrate at the Sydney Opera House. The Palestine Action

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Speaker 1: Group wants to assemble as many as ten thousand people

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Speaker 1: at the Opera House on Sunday, but the New South

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Speaker 1: Wales Police argued in court on Wednesday it's a public

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Speaker 1: safety disaster waiting to happen. Taxpayers will bail out Glencore's

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Speaker 1: Mount isaacopper smelter to the tune of six hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 1: but its Swiss bosses say it might still close before

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Speaker 1: the end of next year. Those stories alive right now

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Speaker 1: at the Australian dot Com dot a U. Chris Bowen

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Speaker 1: is at war with a group of environmentalists who say

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Speaker 1: Australia's renewables rollout is a mess. The Minister alleges this

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Speaker 1: reading misinformation about the sheer space needed to realize the

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Speaker 1: Albanese government's ambitious renewables plans, but he can't or won't

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Speaker 1: explain the numbers coming out of his own department. Today

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Speaker 1: we unpack the report and the response that's got everyone

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Speaker 1: scratching their heads. At the end of last month, The

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Speaker 1: Australian's Rural and Regional correspondent Matthew Denholm reported this.

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Speaker 2: The stunning scale of Australia's renewables rollout can be revealed.

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Speaker 2: One thousand projects costing one point three three trillion dollars,

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Speaker 2: including twenty five thousand more wind towers with forty five

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Speaker 2: thousand kilometers of associated roads, and two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: million solar panels on four hundred and six thousand hectares.

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Speaker 2: The figures Australia's first comprehensive glimpse of the true scale

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Speaker 2: of the renewables revolution, have been compiled by conservationists and

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Speaker 2: communities pushing for a better planned roll out.

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Speaker 1: Based on mapping done by rainforest Reserves Australia, the space

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Speaker 1: taken up by solar panels will need to increase from

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Speaker 1: just under thirty thousand hectares to more than four hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty thousand to meet the Albanese government's renewables goals.

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Speaker 1: In his reporting, matt explained it like this.

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Speaker 2: Effectively equivalent to almost all of metropolitan Sydney, parts of

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Speaker 2: the Lower Blue Mountains and beyond Richmond and Campbelltown.

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Speaker 1: The same was done with wind turbines, this time using

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Speaker 1: the city of Brisbane to demonstrate the scale. On the

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Speaker 1: same day, Minister Chris Bowen posted this on social media.

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Speaker 3: Some anti renewable pro nuclear activists have worked out how

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Speaker 3: much land renewables will take and it's pretty confronting. Now

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Speaker 3: take the area equivalent to Sydney's metropolitan zign. Now, if

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Speaker 3: that was true, it would be around half of one

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Speaker 3: percent of Australia's land mass. But guess what doesn't stack up?

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Speaker 2: Wait? What so?

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Speaker 4: Chris Bowen, in his social media video shows the data

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Speaker 4: captured by The Australian and really he says, this is

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Speaker 4: not something that stacks up. In his words, Sarah Eisen

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Speaker 4: is a senior political reporter with The Australian. He says,

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Speaker 4: in reality, they have drastically overestimated the amount of space

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Speaker 4: we're going to need for these projects.

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Speaker 3: The New South Wales Agricultural Commissioner has looked at how

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Speaker 3: much land renewables will take based on the plans of

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Speaker 3: the Australian energy market operator, the people who actually run

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Speaker 3: the grit, and they found it's about four percent of

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Speaker 3: what is in the newspaper today.

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Speaker 1: So where did this twelve percent figure come from? Over

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Speaker 1: the past few days, the Australian has tried to get

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of it.

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Speaker 4: So The Australian asked Chris Bowen this exact question, because

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Speaker 4: it wasn't clear from the social media video. Twelve percent

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Speaker 4: is of very specific figure and what we were told was

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Speaker 4: that this figure comes from the New South Wales Agricultural

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Speaker 4: Commissioner's report, and we were sent that report. But what

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Speaker 4: that report focuses on is only New South Wales coverage.

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Speaker 4: A lot of the graphics, a lot of the charts

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Speaker 4: and everything says this is how much land mass in

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Speaker 4: New South Wales will be needed. Upon asking again how

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Speaker 4: that twelve percent figure was landed on, we did receive

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Speaker 4: an incredibly long response, but it didn't answer the question.

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Speaker 4: We have been able to determine that of the eight

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Speaker 4: hundred nine hundred odd projects that have been mapped, around

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Speaker 4: six or so are not going ahead. They've been discontinued

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Speaker 4: or paused, so there may be some merit in re

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Speaker 4: looking at that, but it still leaves the question open

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Speaker 4: of how the claim that what was represented by this

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Speaker 4: group and reported on by the Australian that that is

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Speaker 4: way overblown, that in fact, the reality is that the

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Speaker 4: land use twelve percent of that reporting half a dozen

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Speaker 4: projects that are paused at the moment or won't go ahead.

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Speaker 4: That still doesn't reduce that land mass enough to give

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Speaker 4: us the answer of how we got to that twelve

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Speaker 4: percent figure that keeps being used. We also asked if

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Speaker 4: in fact the Minister was confused by these two pieces

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Speaker 4: of data, if he did in fact mean that he

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Speaker 4: was referring to New South Wales specific data when our

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Speaker 4: reporting was about national data and that's also what the

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Speaker 4: mapping was showing. That wasn't responded to. We asked if

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Speaker 4: any kind of apology or attraction was necessary. Instead, we

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Speaker 4: heard that he was concerned about misinformation being spread by

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Speaker 4: this group and the sorts of links that this group

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Speaker 4: has to that nuclear anti renewable lobby or side of politics,

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Speaker 4: so to speak.

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Speaker 1: And here's the twist. Rainforest Reserves Australia has recently revised

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Speaker 1: its two year renewal mapping report to expand the space.

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Speaker 1: It says the government's renewables ambitions will require. The Conservation

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Speaker 1: Group now estimates existing and planned renewables projects like wind

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Speaker 1: and solar will cover more than four hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: three thousand hectares nationally. What has been Chris Bowen's response

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Speaker 1: In the Department's response to that development.

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Speaker 4: The response is that there is even more concern now

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Speaker 4: that this data is very much publicly available. Now that

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Speaker 4: they can see all of that data, they have even

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Speaker 4: more concerns and believe they are even more flaws. We

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Speaker 4: have asked what they are. We are yet to receive

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Speaker 4: a response. It may still come. This is a very

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Speaker 4: large data set that's taken over two years to compile,

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Speaker 4: but it was something that in their perspective, only raised

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Speaker 4: more concern rather than say, prompting an apology or a

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Speaker 4: retraction about the original video from Crispawn.

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Speaker 1: Rainforest Reserves Australia fired back at Bowen's claim their calculations

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Speaker 1: were way off the mark. In a press release. They

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Speaker 1: called the claim unsupported, vague, unclear, and appears to mix

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Speaker 1: up the new South Wales only data with its national figures.

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Speaker 1: They told The Australian they're standing by their mapping and

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Speaker 1: have called on Chris Bowen to share his department's data

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Speaker 1: with them for review.

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Speaker 4: There are a lot of conservationists that are very positive

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Speaker 4: about this work. Christine Milner comes to mind as someone

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Speaker 4: who's saying we need to move away from colin gas,

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Speaker 4: as this group says we do as well, But she's

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Speaker 4: similarly concerned about this blind move towards large scale renewable

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Speaker 4: projects that maybe we're not considering the damage they're doing

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Speaker 4: because they're called renewable projects or clean energy projects, and

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Speaker 4: the worry that that's going to get away from us.

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Speaker 4: So you are hearing actually a fair bit of encouragement

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Speaker 4: from progressives and progressive circles for sure when it comes

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Speaker 4: to this kind of project.

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Speaker 1: Coming up. What about the other half of Chris Bowen's claims.

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Speaker 1: The mapping that informed the Australians reporting was done by

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Speaker 1: Queensland conservationist Stephen Nowakowski. He says he's been arrested for

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Speaker 1: his boots on the ground activism and ran for the

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Speaker 1: Greens in Cans in the early two thousands. Sarah Chris

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Speaker 1: Bowen said in the video posted to social media in

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Speaker 1: response to The Australians reporting that Stephen Nolakowski and Rainforest

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Speaker 1: Reserves Australia.

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Speaker 3: Are anti renewable pro nuclear activists.

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Speaker 1: Is Stephen Nolkowski or rainforest Reserves Australia either of those things,

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Speaker 1: anti renewables or pro nuclear.

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Speaker 4: Well, they're conservationists that are concerned about the rollout of

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Speaker 4: large scale renewable projects that come, as they say, potentially

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Speaker 4: at the costs of really rich ecological or agricultural land.

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Speaker 4: And now, like many conservationists, they are saying we need

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Speaker 4: to move away from coal and gas, there is no question,

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Speaker 4: but it cannot be at the expense of biodiversity. So

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Speaker 4: they're the sorts of people who are concerned about land

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Speaker 4: being impacted in such a way that it causes more

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Speaker 4: damage than relief when it comes to our push towards

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Speaker 4: net zero. I think maybe pro nuclear is something you

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Speaker 4: could argue. It was something that mister Nawakowski was quite

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Speaker 4: clear and transparent about that, despite this being a hard

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Speaker 4: thing to admit, he thought that maybe nuclear did need

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Speaker 4: to be considered, that it needed to be in the mix.

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Speaker 4: He's one of the few Australian conservationists that feel that way,

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Speaker 4: and he has been quite upfront about how it is

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Speaker 4: somewhat of a turnaround or a shock. However, I think

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Speaker 4: to say anti renewable would be quite a stretch. He's

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Speaker 4: a conservationist, is how he's described himself, wildlife photographer. It's

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Speaker 4: incredibly concerned about the biodiversity of Australia and he's also

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Speaker 4: raised plenty of concerns as well about coal and fossil

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Speaker 4: fuel and the ongoing role that they have to play.

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Speaker 4: But to say that he or this group are some

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Speaker 4: kind of incredibly pronuculiar, staunchly anti renewable lobby and that

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Speaker 4: is their agenda, I don't think quite represents the truth

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Speaker 4: behind this particular organization.

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Speaker 1: Sarah Eisen is a senior political reporter with The Australian.

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Speaker 1: You can read her reporting and analysis, as well as

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Speaker 1: all the nation's best news, sport, politics and business right

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Speaker 1: now at The Australian dot com dot au